Thursday, 19th November 2009 - 08:51CET
Chopping off hands of thieves is 'deserving punishment' - Imam
Imam Mohamed El Sadi, the Muslim leader in Malta, believes chopping off the hands of thieves is a "deserving punishment".
Mr El Sadi made the statement during Monday's television programme Bondiplus, where he defended Sharia law, a judicial system used in some Islamic states and which can involve severe corporal punishments.
Contacted yesterday, Mr El Sadi stood by his comments and added the world was incurring the "wrath of God" through its permissiveness and destruction of spiritual and moral values, namely through the acceptance of "same-sex marriages, homosexuality, adultery and abortion".
Under Sharia law, such things are considered crimes that may even be punishable by death. When asked if the he agreed with such punishments he said: "Yes, of course. I agree with everything Islamic."
The TV show discussed whether crucifixes should be banned from classrooms. When presenter Lou Bondì asked Mr El Sadi if Muslims could be more tolerant and "light-hearted" in their reactions to parody and criticism, Mr El Sadi said Europe's permissive values were not necessarily ideal.
"Are same-sex marriages a value? What is this value? If in the future the majority of people want the right for men to marry cats, dogs or horses, will we make a law to fulfil these wishes," Mr El Sadi asked.
Mr Bondì then asked whether religion should dictate the laws of the country, through, say, Sharia law.
"What is wrong with Sharia law? If someone steals, he is taking from the country or the poor, so why is it wrong to cut off his hand?" the Imam replied.
Mr El Sadi said the punishment should terrify thieves and criminals, "not the good people".
When speaking to The Times about his remarks, the Imam said: "Why don't you concentrate on what is common rather than pick on what is controversial?"
He said he was not proposing this system for Europe because it would be undemocratic. But it was also undemocratic for Muslim countries not to use it because most Muslims wanted it.
The system was practised in Saudi Arabia for centuries and yielded results but many Muslim-majority countries believed in secularism and did not employ such practice, he said.
He conceded there were different kinds of Muslims who thought of Sharia differently. "But whoever denies this is not a Muslim," he said, adding the law of God was perfect.
He said there were many safeguards to ensure Sharia law was applied justly, through a court system that depended on having several witnesses. "This does not apply to thieves who are poor or hungry. This is for people who have everything and want more; people who are greedy... The point is to frighten criminals."
Fr Renè Camilleri, who was also a guest on the programme, said he was "shocked" by the Imam's comments.
"I tried to insist violence is unacceptable. The concept is horrific to me. It is equivalent to the death penalty. I know it is what Sharia law dictates but, coming from him, such a moderate and tolerant person, I was shocked," he said, adding he never considered the Imam to be a fundamentalist.
Reacting to the television debate, anthropologist Ranier Fsadni warned against "misunderstanding" the comments and said such views were probably not shared by all Muslims in Europe.
He said many migrated because they did not like the society they lived in, while a large number of others came from countries that did not believe Sharia was prescribed by the Quran or meant to be taken literally without taking the culture of the time into context.
"Just as a priest does not necessarily represent all his community, the Imam does not necessarily represent all Muslims in Malta. Then, again, he is respected and appreciated as a pastoral leader."
Mr Fsadni said the Imam was simply being "intellectually honest" and defending his belief and was not proposing the system for Malta. He was also honest about his views of democracy and the rule of the majority.
A video clip with the Imam's comment can be viewed on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e2gtOO029U .
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Ma nistghux naqblu ghax qed naraw u ninterpretaw is-sitwazzjoni kollha minn lenti differenti.
Jien ukoll, bhalek - inhobb il-liberta' u naqbel mieghek li ghandna pajjiz hieles u liberu - kieku zgur li mhux qed nikkomunikaw jien u int bil-liberta' kollha.
Nerga' nirreferi ghall-kumment li ktibt l-ewwel darba, li dak li qal l-Imam ma jghoddx ghal pajjizna. Li qal is-Sur Mohammed El Sadi m'huwiex fil-kultura u fit-tradizzjoni taghna (tal-Punent). Jien fl-ebda hin ma dhalt fil-mertu jew fil-gudizzju tal-ligijiet jew tradizzjonijiet li ghandhom kulturi jew religjonijiet differenti ghax m'inix midhla tal-kuntesti taghhom u allura m'ghandix il-kompetenza li nikkummenta minghajr ma naf il-kuntest shih. Nista' naghti biss opinjoni generali kif diga' tajt - li dak li qal l-Imam ma qalux ghal pajjizna u li allura ma jghoddx ghal pajjizna.
Ezempju iehor ghalfejn dak li qal l-Imam huwa zbaljat u perikoluz... almenu ghal min jhobb il-liberta:
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article6954576.ece
Qed nikkummentaw fuq zewg affarijiet differenti.
L-artiklu ta' Kenneth Zammit Tabona qrajtu imma dak m'ghandu x'jaqsam xejn mal-kumment li ktibt jien. Jien ma ktibtx biex niddiskuti xi argument partikolari, imma tajt opinjoni generali u ghamilt biss riflessjoni fuq is-sitwazzjoni minghajr ma dhalt fl-aspett kritiku jew analitiku taghha.
Nahseb li l-iskop tal-blog huwa li tikkummenta fil-qosor biex tohloq diskussjoni hafifa u mexxejja. Issa erhilha li f'dan il-kaz, kellna diskussjoni li nbniet fuq l-emozzjoni u l-pregudizzju (aktar minn kollox).
Jekk wiehed irid jargumenta fil-fond, l-ewwel li jrid jaghmel huwa li jirricerka u wara jista' jikteb artiklu kif ghamel is-Sur Zammit Tabona.
Issa taqbel jew ma taqbilx mieghu hija haga ohra.
Inkunu stupidi li nhallu idejat medjevali skaduti bhal ligijiet tax-xarija jirbhu fuq il-liberta li nkisbet fil-punent permezz tas-sagrificcju ta eluf ta missirijietna fuq medda ta mijiet ta snin...
Sfortunatament, sakemm l-islam ibaxxi rasu ghall-kuncetti tal-liberta tal-bniedem u s-separazzjoni bejn stat u religjon, ma narax kif qatt nistghu naslu biex naqblu.
L-imam qed jaghmel zball juza d-demokrazija sabiex jiggustifika l-jasar tax-xarija fuq il-liberta tal-bniedem u d-drittijiet universali.
M'inix behsiebi noqghod niddefendi lill-Imam ghax ma nahsibx li ghandu bzonn id-difiza tieghi. Lil Mohammed El Sadi nafu sewwa u naf xi bniedem hu. Ili ghaxar snin nahdem mieghu u naf xi jsarraf. L-ewwelnett kull min ipprova jbezza' billi qal li l-Islam qed jgholli rasu f'pajjizna jew inkella aghar minn hekk li l-Imam hareg il-karattru tieghu ... dan kollu kliem biex johloq il-firda minflok ifittex l-ghaqda.
Tajjeb li nifhmu l-hsieb tal-Imam. L-ewwelnett dan fl-ebda hin ma qal li l-ligi tax-Xarija ghandha tidhol f'pajjizna. Is-Sur El Sadi qal li bhalma l-kurcifiss ghandu jibqa' f'pajjizna ghax huwa marbut mal-maggoranza (religjon) u mal-kultura taghna, daqshekk iehor ghandha l-validita' taghha l-ligi tax-Xarija f'postijiet fejn tgawdi l-fehma tal-maggoranza. Zgur ma qalx li din ghandha tidhol f'Malta. Mela allura ghaliex dan ir-remettar u l-mibeghda ta' diskors? Mhux ovja li din il-ligi ma tapplikax ghall-kuntest taghna!
Naghlaq billi nfakkar li dan kollu holqu Lou Bondi ghax hallat kwistjoni m'ohra. Forsi l-Imam seta' gharaf ahjar kif jevita dak li stiednu jidhol ghalih Lou Bondi.
Insomma ... minn Lou Bondi tistenniha!
@ Josef Caruana
‘And since the law of God is perfect as he stated I ask the imam if it is ok to start marrying men to women of a very young age in order to follow the prophets example in the case of Aisha when he married her before her teens’
Please note, peoples (especially women) during this times used to marry in young ages. If I am not mistaken, Mary (Jesus’s Mother) was 11 or 12 Years old when she was pregnant, so says the Bible.
And since the law of God is perfect as he stated I ask the imam if it is ok to start marrying men to women of a very young age in order to follow the prophets example in the case of Aisha when he married her before her teens
Nature is God and God is Nature. Even if one does not accept Pantheism one must concede the origin and creator of Nature is God. So far so good. Now what do we find in Nature?
No human has ever fancied just one person in life (be brutally honest!)
Most animals has small minorities who are homosexual or display homosexuality.
Nature causes numerous abortions especially if things are going wrong during pregnancy. We prefer to call it miscarriage. A rose by any other name?
Nature causes numerous abortions especially if things are going wrong during pregnancy. We prefer to call it miscarriage. A rose by any other name?
In medical science there is a disease called kleptomania. It makes the sufferer a compulsive thief. God/Nature created this condition. The Islamic response: chop off their hands! I am not in any way justifying stealing originating from greed, but like many things in life there are a lot of grey areas besides black and white.
Modern enlightened people WILL NOT tolerate cruelty especially to ANIMALS and innocent persons. History shows the treatment of animals, with few notable exceptions, by the above three religions have been horrible. We are not stupid. These things do not come from God, they come from people living under delusion. The time has come for humanity to reject religion and embrace spirituality. Until then, religions will continue to be a main source of division rather than unity.
I took the interest to investigate what Islam says about theft and I asked a qualified Muslim Imam about this serious punishment and I was informed the following:
Because cutting off the hand is a serious matter, it should not be done for just any case of theft. A combination of conditions must be fulfilled before the hand of a thief is cut off. These conditions are so many and quite complex, here I quote few:
- The thief must be an adult Muslim and aware of thief’s punishment in the Quran.
- The thief must be in good mental order and not poor or in dire need.
- The stolen property should be something of worth..
- The stolen thing should have been taken by stealth; if it was not taken by stealth, then the hand should not be cut off, such as when property has been seized by force in front of other people, because in this case the owner of the property could have asked for help to stop the thief.
- The value of the stolen property should be above a certain limit stipulated in Islamic court.
- The stolen property should have been taken from a place where it had been put away.
- The theft itself has to be proven, either by the testimony of two qualified witnesses or by the confession of the thief twice. In case of slightest suspension the punishment MUST NOT BE CARRIED OUT.
- MOST IMPORTANTLY, the person from whom the property was stolen has to ask for it back; if he does not, then (the thief’s) hand does not have to be cut off.
Yes it’s harsh punishment, however we don’t have to look at theft while setting behind a computer screen, sipping a hot coffee and passing a comment. We must look indepth at the cataclysmic sequences of thefts. Theft could drive companies out of business, families and kids could suffer and get destituted and dispossessed. Theft could also bankrupt the society, create insecurity, incohesion and social chaos. If this Sahria laws applicable on everyone then, why worry? Personally I don’t mind living under such laws. I fee safe, why should I steal after all? Don’t you like to live in a safe place? Sounds dandy for me indeed.
Always willing to oblige. My dictionary gives this definition to the word "Hypocrisy" -Falsely pretending to be virtuous,insincerity.
I repeat I wrote " We Catholics do not say we are saints, we sometimes break the commandments.........our Religion frogives us our sins". Definitely not " falsely pretending to be virtuous ".
I also wrote " There is no Sharia law to chop off our heads......" Again no "hypocrisy" no "insincerity" I was just stating a fact. Maybe you mixed up definitions??
I think you really gave us, non-Muslim, a really clear and negative picture of Islam !! well done!
'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'
'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'
'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'
THAT IN SHORT, IS WHAT IMAMS SHOULD BE TOLD BY MEN WHO ARE MADE FROM REAL STUFF TO LEAD THEIR COUNTRY.
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told Prime Minister Kevin Rudd on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
Separately,
Rudd angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:
'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'
'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.'
'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!'
Rather I think that it is you who do not understand. This is not simple 'freedom of expression' as you put it but factual treatment of criminals, homosexuals, apostates and women under Sharia Law. This Imam is not expressing his own opinion or some theory but a daily fact of life where Sharia rules.
And if you and the whole West is not careful, you will too soon be living under these "rules" whether you believe in Religion or not.
You give no indication that you have understood my comment at all; otherwise you would not be raising points that I have already answered fully. I am very sure about my faith and about my ability to expose the Imam’s hidden agenda. That is why you would like to suppress my counter arguments against his claim that the “chopping off hands of thieves is a deserving punishment”. I did not deny the right of the Imam “to start the discussion” but I claim the equal right to present counter arguments to his endorsement of that mutilation. You are incongruously challenging my right to reply to a controversy started by him. Please stick to this subject because I will not swallow your bait by diverting to the laws about abortion.
"He was exercising his right to freedom of speech and expression "
Malta is a civilized country we just do not go about chopping hand, heads etc. in the name of religion.
You are wrong ,we Maltese do not feel superior to a different race or religion, we are just civilized . That is one reason the Imam was able to express the way he did on our National Television. Try to do that in his country, you will get a very different reaction.
It is right that we worry ,because all of us thought that the Imam was a moderate person. alas his right in "Exercising his freedom of speech and expression " presented a very different picture. Certainly not a better one , but one to be afraid of. We did not know that we had an Imam who thought on those lines in our midst.
Sharia law has no place in the twentieth century .Europe,and all the rest of the world, should try to eradicate. We must never allow it in Catholic Malta.
chopping off someones hands isn't racism ? oh i forgot that only us can be racist - racism just works one way with you liberals. look we have an imam who would perform this barbaric laws if Malta & Europe had been Islamic (which what are going to be in a few decades), who do you want us to blame ? of course multi culture and liberals. i will NEVER accept such things. look at what happened in Paris recently. we need to secure the future for us and our future children from the dangerous of multi culture virus that is spreading all over Europe.
Let me teach you some history. People have always worshiped the sun. The Egyptians created god myths, and they knew they were myths. These started from Horus and were later carried on to other divinities around the world, including Buddha, Krishna, Mithra, and Jesus.
That's why all of them carry the same characteristics, 12 disciples, born in a cave on 25th Dec of a virgin called Mery (or Mary), raised El-Azarus (or Lazarus), healed the sick, was of royal descent, crucified and came back after 3 days, and the list goes on (really long). Most of these characteristics are the Sun characteristics which are too elaborate to explain here. However if you are interested you can go to www.truthbeknown.com
And here's an interesting document which everybody should read unless of course you want to read the more detailed books by Acharya S: http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/originsofchristianity.pdf
I'm no catholic but I still don't agree with this! Let me remind you that the US troops kill in the name of god and even if they are catholic they still give the life sentence. I don't agree with any of these punishments. What if after a couple of years the court finds that it was mistaken? How can the mistake be reversed?
It made me feel superior when visiting a few Muslim countries, and saw the dreadful subordinate life that women live through under Islam. The trouble is that so many people from the "free world " take so many things for granted. Just remember, that however open minded or tolerant non muslims may be to muslims, they are still ' infidels ' whose faith ( or lack of ) is despised by muslims.
I read much more than you think. That is why I know that the Imam’s exercise of his “freedom of speech” is intended to make the excesses of Sharia law more palatable to the Christian community of Malta. That is a necessary prelude to any future anticipated tolerance of the crime of murder of Muslim women by their own family on religious Islamic grounds. I read so much that I know that this is already happening in England today at the instigation of the Imam’s fellow religious leaders in that country.
Very wise eh!
Don't you read anything before you launch into your ill-informed diatribe. He is exercising his right to freedom of speech and expression. He hasn't, as far as i know, started killing anybody. His opinion on religious matters are different to yours, mine is different to his and yours. I'm wondering what it is that makes you think you are so superior to those of a different race and or religion.
@ Miguel Micallef,
Do pray that Malta and Europe remain Christian, if you do not want to be one of the first to have your head chopped off!
JC.
The very grave threat of the Islamification of Britain,unless this evil is stopped dead in its tracks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUawtlMpJCM
I believe any legal system that mandates adult women of any age need their male guardian's permission for ANYTHING is uncivilized.
I believe any legal system that presumes that men are filled with uncontrollable lusts that can be unleashed by the slightest provocation by a woman is uncivilized.
I believe any legal system that blames the woman for provoking those lusts in a man is uncivilized.
I believe any legal system that is based purely on the tenets of a religion, and mandates that all must obey those tenets regardless of their beliefs, is uncivilized.
I believe any legal system that says men may marry outside the faith, but women cannot, is uncivilized.
I believe any legal system that tolerates "female circumcision" -- the removal of the clitoris and, occasionally, other tissue -- is uncivilized.
I believe any legal system that makes apostasy -- leaving one's faith -- a crime and punishes it with death is uncivilized.
I believe any legal system that punishes those who proselytize any faith besides Islam, and rewards those who promote it, is uncivilized.
Imam, take yourself and your Sharia back to the Islamic hellhole that you came from.
What sort of inane question is that, Mr Bartolo?
Actually, there is nothing scary about my question. A little observation is enough to realise, that greed and ambition, are causing too much suffering that can be avoided.
If you didn't understand my post, that is what I intended to say.
I think that Fr. Rene's defence of the crucifix was almost pathetic and largely amateurish by comparison.
Dr. Carmel Borg's arguments in favour of inclusion were very reasonable and highlight his intellectual capabilities. Pity that few people could grasp his real point.
And by the way I am Catholic too.
" You Catholics will fully understand why we ateists want total separation of religion from state."
When will you so called ateists understand that from the begining of time people have always worshiped a "God". By giving in to the removal of the crucifix we will be providing a place for another "God" another religion.
The Iman had revealed his true self, deep down he is a true follower of Islam a person to be afraid of. Maltese converts who come out praising the Imam should take notice. A change of mind, in this case "leaving the MUslim faith " is punishable by death. One just cant understand how other Maltese can defend and agree with the Iman and enbrace Islam while at the same time attack the Catholic church ? The Catholic church is certainly not barbaric !
English muslims who were subject to Sharia law say that there is no real court, only an Imam at the end of the phone, handing down punishments.
So called liberals and ateists is this the religion you want for modern Europe , a religion that takes us back to the Middle Ages ?
THANK YOU!
This is why we must act now to make sure state and religion are separated. A cross in a classroom makes no difference (and everyone, deep, deep down, knows this). But if/when muslims become majority, then problems will arise. Rightly so, they will say what you Catholics are saying now: "We are the majority, we do what we please! Bring on Sharia Law!"
Then YOU catholics will FINALLY UNDERSTAND why we ateists want total separation of RELIGION (not catholicism) from STATE. The state is there to safeguard human rights , no matter the majority of the religion.
Your very argument that majority wins might be the very downfall of european human rights.
Be careful what you say and do. Separating state and catholicism now will result in a peaceful environment where you can still practice your religion whenever you want. Keeping the state tightly woven to the 'majority religion' will might make you 'proud' today, but think about the future...
http://www.rawa.org/handcut3.htm
Dr Frank Portelli MD FRCS(Ed)
Organised religion is only as good as those who are its followers, and they are all human, so they make mistakes. But harping back to the past - a typical useless weapon used by those who attack Christianity - is puerile.
In the UK we have Sharia-based bank accounts. Interest is not allowed, so I understand that it is simply called something else in order to comply with that law. If I am incorrect I hope somebody will let me know.
There are also constant attempts to try to get our politicians to adopt Sharia law.
We have to find common ground with those of other beliefs. Sadly there seem to be barriers here to do with both religion and language and we have to find ways to mix with our neighbours rather than live seperate lives and having no contact.
I am sure we can learn a lot from one another and join forces where we have common ground.
Do you think that the Imam, exercising his right to freedom of religion, should be
entitled to carry out his duty of Jihad and kill any “infidel” Maltese as of now, or should he wait until Islam becomes the official religion?
Islam is incompatible with our lifestyle.
What is most hypocritical though is that some people in this forum are trying to have a go at the Church, using the Imam's outrageous comments!
Keep that up, create a religious vacuum, which will only be filled with Islam. Just look at the rest of Europe.
That's why I keep looking at our bastions in Valletta and the 3 cities and thank them for being so strong in keeping the faith that St Paul brought to our tiny country.
Sharia law gives all the power to men , women are considered worthless. It is a harsh, cruel law good only for the Middle Ages.
It advocates stoning for sexual offences, amputation for theft and death for renouncing one's faith. Maltese who are converting to Islam should better take care .
In Sharia law MAN means power. Men can have saveral wives. Men can marry non-Muslim women , women are not allowed to marry a non-Muslim man.
Some of the sentances given out in Sharia law are unbelievable. A teenage single mother was given 100 lashes for adultery , even though she told the court that she had been raped by three men. The court said that she could not prove that the men forced her to have sex. The testimony of a man is believed that of a woman is not.
Muslims are fighting to get Sharia law into the British system. . England treats all citizens equally. English Muslims who are against Sharia say that there really is no court just an Imam.
There are two video links at the bottom of this blog (see link), telling a true story about the unbelievable inhumanity of Sharia - refering exactly to the content of this ToM Article:
http://killing-teen-boys-in-the-name-of-god.blogspot.com/
Not only does his beliefs differ from ours, he upholds a law that is different to Maltese law!
I was shocked to hear that the Imam approves of such acts of violence in the name of God.
What is even more concerning is the number of Maltese people agreeing with Sharia Law. Not to mention the so called intellectual apologists.
I bet they would never ever contemplate moving to a country where it is practised.
First we had the archbishop saying that the burka does not upset him and now the Imam is saying he agrees that thieves should have their hands chopped off.
My God would not approve.
Mr Imam, we respect you as a person but if you want these laws than you are in the wrong country & continent. Why don't you just go & live in a muslim country? why did you choose Malta to live in? .........maybe because we don't have this barbaric law!?!
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and just because you may disagree with them doesn't mean they are wrong.
I'm sure some folks disagree with catholic churches stance on abortion.............................
What we all want? Yes of course that the courts keep defending with all their might the guilty while the victims have to suffer more abuse.
Go Imam.
Pig flesh is prohibited altogether, while other livestock must be slaughtered in the correct manner, by cutting the throat and invoking Allah. Alcohol and other intoxicants are prohibited. (animal lovers they are not)
Read more at: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-512973/Sharia-UK-What-exactly-does-mean.html#ixzz0XK00WWVp
While at least one passage of the Koran suggests the beating of wives is permissible, other hadith texts contradict this. Again, this is the subject of much debate among Islamic scholars. (I am speechless!!!!)
All Muslim teachings concur that adultery is a terrible crime against sharia law.
The punishment, in theory, is supposed to be stoning to death, although the demands for proof of guilt are such that the sentence is rarely passed.
Either a confession to the act is required, or the accepted testimony of four male (or eight female) witnesses. (I see 1 man is equal to 2 women for Islam !!!!)
Sharia guidelines say that both a husband and wife can end a marriage, though it is easier for the man to do so, simply by repeating the words "talaq, talaq, talaq" - meaning "I divorce you".
Many Muslims believe that there should be a period of reflection of one month between each "talaq" before the divorce is final.
A woman cannot remarry for a period of four months and ten days after that, to ensure that she is not pregnant by her ex-husband. (TALK ABOUT EQUALITY!!!!) More to come..
The issue of the crucifix is not about "banning". It is about the need, and the constitutional requirement, to place this most important religious representation of Christianity in churches and not in public places.
And if the guy is mentally deranged ? Kill him just the same eh ? And will that reverse what has happened in any way ?
What are truly shocking are Dr Fsadni's comments. He is in favour of gay marriage, abortion and the lenient treatment of criminals. but does not hesitate to leap to the defence of the Imam, who stands for everything someone like Dr Fsadni should oppose.
An appeal court in Riyadh approved the death sentence handed down in June by a lower court in Hail, where the convicted 22-year-old man carried out his crimes, Okaz newspaper said.
The man's body will be put on public display after the beheading.
The man was arrested several weeks ago, the paper said, as he tried to seize another youth after offering him a ride home from school.
He wont be ruining the lives of kids again thats for sure.
So what kind of justice would you want ???, suspended sentence?? bail 2000 euros dont leave your house?? 5 years in cordin???
An eye for an eye.
Do you really think that chopping hands off the thieves and letting them free will help in reducing criminality? Don't you know that a person can still do harm, even with his hand chopped off! Don't you realise that he can still rape! And then what? Will we reduce ourselves to barbaric acts of chopping people's body parts?
So when the imam asks "What is wrong with Sharia law? As a female in a European democratic country I loundly respond ‘JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING’
If he is such an advocate,of Islam,and Sharia law,why is he in Malta?
Far better for him to return to the Middle East,then he can amputate,stone to death,until his hearts content
Beware Malta,militant Islam,is rearing its ugly head
Or perhaps He gave up a long time ago and has left us to fight it out between ourselves....
But Ranier Fsadni wins the first prize for blindness in front of the truth by warning us against misunderstanding the Imam's comments.
When will Maltese do-gooders wake up to reality?
us ? It is a well known fact that all religions have departed from their base during the centuries including the Catholic Church . Because we beleive what the Catholic Church teaches it does not mean that all Catholics are perfect What is common to all Religions is a beleif in what is essentially God and that there is a morality. Maybe it is dealing with immorality which differentiates us . Why not capture the subject of morality and see why and how we have departed from our true Religions?
I beg to differ. The Christian god is anything but loving. Read the old and new testaments if you will.
@apologists
Religion harbours and provides the vehicle for extremism. It does not in any way deserve the overly exaggerated respect it enjoys and the reason it is still around is because of the manipulative dictatorial scaremongering tactics employed by all the major religions. Christian and Islamic fundamentalists believe and behave in accordance to what’s written in their respective holy book hence why people are hanged, stoned, mutilated and burned all in the name of god. To some extent so do the moderates.
Anyone who says that religion is not at fault is either blind or deluded. Eliminate religion and make the world a better and safer place.
"Mr Fsadni said the Imam was simply being "intellectually honest" and defending his belief and was not proposing the system for Malta."
Oh really? Is that how it works? So if one expresses a belief, say to stop the immigrant influx, we send him to jail and someone who is a leader of Islam expressing the belief of Grievous Bodily Harm on criminals you defend him! You are trying to look nice to people and try to balance the issue but instead you're locked up in a corner because you cannot answer me!
Is he supporting GBH or not? If he is why are you defending him? And if he's not, in your opinion, what does chopping a hand mean to you? And for that matter ... torture?!
God is Love and Mercy.
There is no “Love” and “Mercy” in sharia law.
What a STRANGE religion that accepts and practices such kind of law!
JC.
For one I expect the Malta Gay Rights Movement to condemn what he said about homosexuality. It is so easy for the MGRM to issue statements against the bishops because we are now used to the freedoms that democracy brings but if we have Islamic leaders in our country who speak like this we must rise up united against this threat to all that we have achieved in Europe after centuries of suffering.
In my opinion removing a cross from a classroom is no big deal but making sure that sharia law never touches the shores of Europe is of immeasurable importance.
Welcome to a free democratic country.
Referring to a post by Mr. Victor Laviera, no, however you disagree with the Imam's statement, it is not against the law. That would put arguments in favour of the death penalty also against the law. Which is ridiculous.
I am against crime and the sharia law in equal measures.
How right you are.
When supposedly moderate Imams speak in this way it is easy to see how less intelligent Muslims can become brainwashed into accepting one particular interpretation of Islam.
If Mr El Sadi is considered moderate, then I would be extremely concerned if the leader of Malta's muslim community was succeeded by a more radical Imam.
To those who advocate integrating Malta's illegal immigrants into society rather than incarcerating and then repatriating them, I say listen to Mr El Sadi and be careful what you wish for. The UK's immigration experiment has clearly shown that people from different religious and cultural backgrounds do not integrate, they simply proliferate within their own communities. Muslim groups recently called upon the UK government to introduce Sharia law, which may seem extremely unlikely at this point in time, but, unlike Christianity, the growth is Islam is exponential, so watch this space.
My problem lies elsewhere Imam. My problem is that with 30 years of being in Europe, you still believe that being cruel to your fellow humans is a just right given to you by Sharia law. Europe has not instilled into you any progressive and modern values that what Sharia law states should either be interpreted differently than you are interpreting it or should be ignored.
I personally ignore things said in the bible that smack of inhuman attitude - I just dont care if it was the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit Who said that.
However I will not condem you (I do your thoughts though), because in the Western world (USA) people are murdered by the state (death penalty) for murder. So you would have thought an American should be more mentally progressed than sector areas in this world - where in fact they are not. I condem the US state for capital punishment and condem Sharia Law when interpreted as you have done on Bondi+
The fact that a lot of muslims want it does not make it something correct. Condem it.
Ms Aisha Duhulowa was a 13 year old who was gang raped by a bunch of savages. She was taken to the sharia court and KILLED because of such act. Is that the kind of 'healthy' life style that sharia law portrays? What's worse, having drunk people in Christmas or else killing people because they are gays or happened to be at the wrong place and at the wrong time?
Its scandalous that the leader of one of the fastest spreading religions on our islands, feels that there is nothing wrong within the sharia law. Thank god that Islam is the religion of tolerance and peace.
The Crucifix in class-rooms is part of our respect for our religion and I think that regardless of our E.U. membership or political beliefs most of us Maltese would take to the streets to defend this tradition. We should not accept that foreigners under the form of any guise should make us change our beleifs and values.
There is no “Love” and “Mercy” in sharia law.
What a STRANGE religion that accepts and practices such kind of law!
JC.
In London, illegal, underground, sharia courts already exist, and the London police know it and can do little about it, except when some poor islamic woman manages to escape the islamic court and seeks safety in British justice.
Two young woman killed by their relatives in Italy for wanting to wear westaern-style cloths. In the US, one woman run-over by a car driven by her father, becasue she wanted the American style life. Another seeking refuge after being threatened for same reasons.....
May I recommend to all islamic immigrants: When you emigrate to another country, please become real citizens of that country whatever faith you practice. Please be good Maltese citizens of Islamic faith if you come here. Keep our laws, enjoy our freedom. As Mr. Rudd, the Australian Prime Minister told the Australian Islamic community: You are also free to leave.
If we condemn Sharia Law we must not be hypocrites and whilst condemning some of its tenets at the same time try to take advantage of other practices such as Sharia banking.
For that to happen, we would need about half a million fundamentalist Muslims in this country, and give them Maltese citizenship so that they can exercise their voting rights. Something tells me that this is not a very likely scenario.
Immigrants do not get the vote. I'm an immigrant, and I don't have voting rights (other than in local and EU elections, since I'm an EU citizen) because I retained my Dutch citizenship.
Rather than calling for people to wake up, perhaps it would be better to get better informed on the subject matter. Immigrants, least of all illegal immigrants, do not have a say in legislative matters in Malta.
Having said all that, this imam is off his rocker, big time.
What happens if a man rapes a woman????!!!!!
Sorry, in civilized countries this is not on.
Very sad indeed.
Read this article about sharia punishments:
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1228956/Somali-woman-20-stoned-death-Islamic-militants-admitting-affair-boyfriend.html
Guilty of all those things you mentioned, but did it hurt anyone very much doubt it.
When the kind person stole my stereo which took me months to save for did he hurt me , you damn right, the scumbag who beat a 85 year old lady a few doors down for 25 euro was she hurt you damn right.
Then you come along Mr dogooder and tell me this isnt wanted in our society, give me a break its all this politically correctness thats ruining our society.
You dont see too many one handed thieves about, or headless rapists.
He may have had in mind my observation that many Muslim-majority states do not apply the punishments discussed in this article.
However, I said something very different from what has been attributed to me, even though it may have sounded similar. Perhaps I was not clear enough
First, on who believes what: The disagreements over what Islam prescribes are to be found within Muslim-majority countries as much as across them; there is no 'country', as such, that believes this or that but schools of thought, 'communities of interpretation' and social movements.
Second, on belief concerning the Sharia's relationship to the Quran: For several reasons, the idea of the Sharia not being prescribed by the Quran would sound absurd to the vast majority of Muslims. What is argued over concerns how Islamic jurisprudence can most faithfully reflect the Quran; ie what one is to understand 'the Sharia' really to be.
You see, we Maltese are a very hypocrite lot.
If our Church decides to prosecute someone for dressing like a Nun, we see no fundamentalism.
If in the university a newspaper is banned (because of a sinful article), there is nothing of fundamentalist in that.
If our Church wants to build a Cemetery threatening to poison the underground water, no problem with that either.
Luckily you are not one of us! And we can all happily attack you and feel a lot better
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8366197.stm
http://allafrica.com/stories/200911180938.html
Imagine what would happen if it suddenly applied to Malta.
"Quote: "Precisely the reason why ALL religion should be only private AND totally separate from state"
... and what should be part of the state? Greed and ambition?!"
Is Mr Bartolo saying that the role of the state is to create fatwahs and 'interdett's? has he really lost the plot or does he think that President Obama is really Pope Obama of America or that in reality we elected Archbishop Gonzi? Oh, now i get it. Its a time warp!
What sort of inane question is that, Mr Bartolo?
The problem is not Islam. The problem is that, in those countries, Islam dictates the laws for everyone, Muslim or not. History teaches us that, when Christianity had the same power in Europe, its rule was no less brutal. Europe has progressed beyond its bloody past not because Christianity is gentler, but because Europe removed Christianity from the seat of government and established a border between them: the government would not tell the church who to worship, and the church would not tell the government how to govern.
This is why the separation of church (mosque, synagogue, temple etc) and state is so important. Religion, by its nature, resists change, but we do. What was acceptable 1000 years ago is not acceptable today, the way we thought and felt back then were different, so our laws must be changed to match - even if religion does not.
. We cannot preach tolerance and discrimination at the same time.
Incidentally, the clip about the boy was only a publicity stunt, as was shown when the whole series of photos was displayed; had the idea been to crush his arm, it would not have been wrapped in a cloth to absorb the impact: .
We are humans and to err is human but even if one regrets past mistakes and reforms, it is not possible in your religion to reform. Best thing you do for Malta is to jet off!
We all know that with the influx of illegal immigration, the preponderance of which is muslim or has strong muslim sympathies, it is only a matter of time until we end up being a minority in our own country. Yet nothing is being done to prevent this situation. To the contrary, we keep welcoming illegal immigrants and giving them the same rights that we have. The question that society must answer is how far it can tolerate the intolerant.
After all, the intolerant minority today might be the intolerant majority tomorrow. Malta wake up!
Perfect and concise comment - min ma joghgbux jitlaq...Noone comes here and tries to change our values and culture - Kif jghidu hadd ma bat ghalik
NO, your __ will not be chopped off but since you are married you will be stoned.
If you were not married you may get off with perhaps 100 whip lashes.
G. Fenech
At least the Catholic Church has passed that stage eons ago, but it seems that even those who are considered as progressive are still living in the dark ages. Who would want to go back to those times?
If you are a Christian you should know what Jesus Christ preaches. If someone takes your clothes you give him also your mantle. Something like that. It meens love and forgiveness and not punishment especially by the cutting of the hand as what Mr Imam believes.
I cannot forget an email I received once about a five or six year old boy having his hand put under a truck wheel as he was caught stealing a piece of bread as he was hungry. It is incredible. That is not what God wants for sure. There is only one God for all. Islam or Christians, God is one and for sure God and Jesus Christ always preached to love one another as oneself. And to forgive. God never made such laws as the imputating of the hands as a punishment for stealing or stoning women to death for adultary. These laws are made by men who thinks that they are better than God.
Maybe we should start applying the Imam's understanding to muslim convicts in Malta.
Maybe since many of these countries are run by dictators they see nothing wrong.
Wait but this is what we do here as well! NOTHING!
The real Islam promotes a healthy life style, discipline and living an honest peaceful life. We Christians would stop having Christmas if we followed the Quran. Imagine a Christmas where you can't drink excessively and have drunken escapades during staff parties, eat too much and have typical Christmas family arguments.
Let's not misinterpret Mr. El Sadi and look at things out of context. If you go to his mosque he will welcome you with open arms, show you around and even join at prayer time. Would you do that?
2 points...
1. In a Muslim country we Christians would not be able to speak freely like you did on our national TV. We would probably end up in jail or somthing similar.
2. Like the Muslims impose on Christians in their countries, WE do not impose our believes while you are in our country. Therefore if you do not like our laws or style of living, we have a very good airport that can take you anywhere in the world...
Do you know what you are saying?
- Have you ever, while at work, taken anything for private use (pen, paper, etc)? Then you are guilty of theft and deserve to have your hand cut off.
- Have you ever left work just a little early “għax kellek qadja”? Then you are guilty of theft and deserve to have your hand cut off.
- Have you ever made private phone calls from work? Then you are guilty of theft and deserve to have your hand cut off.
- Have you ever ordered work and agreed “no VAT”? Then you are guilty of theft and deserve to have your hand cut off.
- Have you ever exceeded the speed limit? Then you broke the law and deserve to have your foot cut off.
This is the reality of what you are saying.
Medieval barbarism has no place in our society.
I dont know the actual value that this news item has. Such unfortunate declarations should not be given prominanace.
The courts have been known to 'get it wrong'. You can't sew them back on . However the "Cat of Nine Tails" or the "Birch" makes more sense. There is no permanent damage and the offender won't want to come back more !
If one thinks that the Muslims that think this way are savages, i must point out that not too long ago there was an Inquisition run by our so called catholic church, burning people just because they had different point of views.
Extremists are the problem, and these will be found in all religions & organisations. Like people that think Always and Only blue / red, there are people that wont accept the fact that people believe in a diff god.
So, basically, the best way is to live and let live, keeping your views to yourself, or to simple discussions & never impose your views on others. I think Sharia law is utterly ridiculous, but i also think that the catholic church has some very ridiculous views on important issues too.
The world would be a better place with simple morals, common sense, and no religion at all, but i'm sure there will be people that disagree with me :)
Imam Mohamed El Sadi may even encourage the cutting of hands of thieves' parents, grandparents, great grand parents and so on for raising their children inappropriately.
Mr M El Sadi may be considered as one of those lucky children who was brought up in the "right" way by a good family in a good environment . Lucky man indeed!! One wonders what his opinion would be if he were to be one of those unlucky children!
Maybe he is one human being who has never committed any sin........and may cast the first stone !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e2gtOO029U
This is simply testing and laying the ground for it to be foisted upon us.
NO WAY it will be introduced in Malta Imam.
That is maiming a person and amounts to grievous bodily harm.
To those who asked whether those who are against Sharia law have ever been robbed, yes I was and was angry not to say mad, but I cannot subscribe to such barbaric practices held in s high esteem by the Imam.
I always thought and still believe that Imam Mohamed El Sadi is DIFFERENT from some of his colleagues in Italy who were allegedly accused of inciting those of Muslin belief to terrorism from their own mosques. He is definately not the type.
But to state that he agrees and believes in the Sharia law is unbelievable. OPPRESION is what the Sharia law is all about, especially oppression against females. We all have seen and heard that in Italy. Muslins girls are murdered by their own family simply because they fall in love with boys belonging to other religions. Many of the Muslims coming to Malta and to the European Union come here to get away from the oppression by their Arab governments irrespective if they enforce the Sharia law or not.
... and what should be part of the state? Greed and ambition?!
The Iman is however partly right that if the people democratically want such laws then those laws should be imposed. The number of Muslims in Europe is growing and luckily many are as the Iman says, ‘good people’. Despite this however we should be on guard not to upset the demographic balance in Europe.
In my opinion, one of the biggest risks would be to admit Turkey as a member of the European Union. Turkey has an estimated population of 75,000,000. Many Turks are ‘good people’ but if they become European citizens who will have the right to stop such shocking (for the rest of us) values spreading and eventually become law in Europe?
Many European leaders have boldly stated that Turkey should not become a member of the EU. Unfortunately our Maltese leaders support Turkey's bid without having asked for the people's consent. The citizens of Europe should be allowed to decide Turkey’s membership through a referendum.
I am totally against suspended sentences, parole and every political correct drivel which, at the end of the day, punishes the innocent more then it punishes the criminal. On the other hand incapacitating people is way over the top.
Thank god that Islam means peace and that the Imam is a moderate man. If these words were said by people like Norman Lowell (whom I disagreed completely with him), he would have ended up being crucified by now!
This why religion, ANY RELIGION, is FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED.
If there is such a judgemental God, let Him decide the fate of those who sinned.
This is no religious concept, it's simply logical.
However, may I add that those that resort to religion for everything (fundamentalists) is mostly because they can't reason at all?
@Miguel - Exactly. I've been pointing this out countless times.
Does anyone here me out? NO.
If people want to get into trouble, BE MY GUEST. I don't CARE WHAT YOU [people] DO.
Don't say I didn't warn you beforehand.
Let's face it: Let's consider gross crimes being found guilty by the Courts of Malta. Some of the punishments in reality are a joke and are far from deterrents. Sometimes a proper lesson must be taught.
Now, before everyone points the gun to my face, I'm not saying that 'small crimes' are to be punished severely, especially when the person's conduct is found to have been clean.
The only problem with Sharia is that it goes to extremes in everything, and when practised to the word, hasic human rights (especially women's) suffer a very hard blow...
Try saving up for something you cherish then having it stolen, then have the police tell you yeah we know who these people are but we cant really do much or see them being let off with a slap on the wrist(Suspended sentence/relapser) I'd like to see a thief stealing a TV with one hand.
Don't touch what's not yours and you'll keep your hands. Dont rape someone and you wont get your head chopped off. sounds pretty simple to me.
Suggest you take up residence in a country which has Sharia LAw as the basis of its judicial system . So much for all your pontification about how peaceful is Islam.
Yours comments on local TV paid from our taxes made me sick.
As for your advice to pick on what is common rather than controversial I do not see anything common with Islam and suggest you keep your opinions to yourself especially in view of the fact that you are a guest in our country.
Trying to please all religions will only have one outcome.... violence and death. It's the only way a religion can affirm itself.
Today the different religions are 'discussing it in a civil way' on TV, tomorrow they will be at each other's throat because symbol A is in a classrom while symbol B is in a hospital.
God's law is perfect... it's interpretation by people like you is what worries me....