Crucifix ban decision deplorable - David Casa
The European Court of Human Rights decision banning crucifixes in Italian classroom was deplorable, Nationalist MEP David Casa said.
"It is deplorable for a country to be denied exhibiting a symbol of its culture and heritage," Mr Casa said.
The court, Mr Casa said, should not have interfered in this particular case.
The crucifix symbolised the importance of Christian values which played a fundamental role in the shaping of Europe and continued to reflect the way Europeans conducted their everyday lives, he said.
"The crucifix should be seen as a sign of harmony, unity and hospitality for all humanity, even for those with different beliefs, but it is also a fundamental part of our history and culture," he insisted.
Meanwhile, the European Commission representation and the European Parliament office in Malta said that the judgement did not come from the European Union or any of its institutions.
The court which gave this ruling was not the court of the European Union but of the Council of Europe, they said.
The Council of Europe, of which Malta has been a member since independence, brings together 47 nations a good number of which are not EU member states.
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Stefan Fava
Nov 10th 2009, 03:55
This is only going to fuel more racism....
I have nothing against any religious beleifs, when I travel to other countries and the country i visit is muslim, i accept the fact that in EVERY street corner all i hear is Allah hu Akhbar starting from 5am...but i am in their country and thats the way it should be, I have no right and dont want them to change that either...but obviously...mate...when you come to MY country you gotta accept our ways, our culture and our religion...we are not saying you must follow our ways, but accept and respect our country and its traditions...ok european union humanitarian rights and whatever...whats the next thing you are gonna come up with to deprive us of OUR rights, so far all i heard was you cant do this and cant have that....what happened to our Maltese identity anyways???
J. Borg
Nov 5th 2009, 17:43
John Smith: you clear are missing the point. You are free to hang any number of crosses on your doors and window because that is your private property. Likewise, Christian churches can cover their entire walls with religious images. However public schools belong to all of us, which is why no religious group should have a monopoly on display of its symbols in such places.
Jeremy J Camilleri
Nov 5th 2009, 14:03
When folks say WE, who exactly are they speaking for?
Maltese Catholics, Maltese Natiionals, Maltese Muslims, Maltese atheists, maltese agnostics??
List goes on....
JOSEPH ZAMMIT
Nov 5th 2009, 07:40
@ M.Borg:
You said that matter around us has its beginning from energy and you used your logic by quoting Einstein’s E=mc2. This is utterly wrong and you do not understand the equation at all..let alone you claim to know GOD! Your thinking, as with the majority of others, is Newtonian 3 dimensional linear thinking and thus very limited. Science has made great progress by entering the realm of the Quantum phyisics.
You said that the mass around us has its beginning from energy—WRONG. Mass = Energy, one and the same.
You asked: “Where did this energy come from - and science cannot and will never explain this question. The Church does!!” No sir, the church does NOT explain this and cannot. The only answer you and the church can give to that question is obviously GOD.
Prove it. If my answer is Zeus (and I cannot prove it) my answer would be either valid like yours, or total nonsense.
T.gauci
Nov 5th 2009, 01:07
@M. Debono,
The Catholic faith contradicts the bible creation story. science will explain how the big bang was triggered in the future and there's no need to say "god did it" to fill the gap, using your logic may i ask you where did your god came from ? if there is a creator then the creator must have a creator so far there's no evidence for your god or any other deity that it might exist.
@ Joseph Cauchi
I am an atheist and i am in no way afraid of the cross i actually want it there to stay. why are you afraid of losing your religious symbols. you must have a really weak faith. are you the same religious who embrace multi culturalism and immigration then abruptly change your mind when something threatens you as a citizen ?
S. Calleja
Nov 5th 2009, 00:34
@ Joseph Cauchi
For the umpteenth time, nobody is afraid of the crucifix. Don't fool yourself into thinking that it has some special magical powers over non-believers or people of other faiths, as if everyone is evil except Catholics. Read my other comments further down below.
Most of the people who seek reassurance in talismans (such as with a crucifix that causes fear amongst its "enemies") are people who have serious doubts about their faith and who are subjective to superstitions.
You can leave the crucifix in the classes if you like, but then don't complain if you see me come with a statue of Buddha or the Koran to hang in class, since I would have all the secular right to do so using your own same reasoning (being in Malta does not give you the power to favour one religion over the other - the constitution makes sure of this too). You might think that your religion is true, but so do the Muslims, the Buddhist, the Hinduists, the Methodists, the Protestants, etc, etc, and in exactly the same way.
S. Calleja
Nov 5th 2009, 00:24
@ Dennis Zammit
"We live in a Roman Catholic country and our religion is embedded in our constitution."
When you say "our", are you referring to all Maltese citizens? What about those Maltese citizens who are not Roman Catholic? Why do you assume that all Maltese are Roman Catholic, or that those who aren't are "less" of a citizens that those who are?
"Therefore, we are proud of our Christianity and to be more precise, proud to be Roman Catholics."
And I thought people would be proud of their religion because of personal beliefs, rather than because it is written in the constitution.
"we are PROUD ROMAN CATHOLICS and will be in full force behind the Maltese Roman Catholic Church"
It is this pride that is dangerous, especially when used with words like "force" and as some other people mentioned, "fight". People fight for something they fear can be taken away from them. If you really believe in Jesus, nobody can take that away from you.
The closemindedness and indoctrination beyond reason is amazingly depressing in this country. A very superficial religion of feasts, statues and prayers learnt by heart, with no real_substance.
Charles Grixti
Nov 4th 2009, 23:59
Remove the cross, I see no problem with it. In fact, I think that the State should be secular and completely separate from any religion or creed and symbols thereof. That would be in an ideal world.
However, in Europe, we are not playing on a level playing field. The vacuum that will be left when the crucifixes go will swiftly be filled in with the symbols of the most vocal and belligerent religion in line and European lawmakers will be all falling upon themselves to accommodate. Mark my words.
colin stanley
Nov 4th 2009, 23:16
I would like to thank, Davld Casa for his stand in favour of our beliefs,also the prime minister, and the leader of the opposition, I hope that they will stand by what they believe, if it comes down to the crunch,and I hope that the church, will go all out against this decision. someone said you can wear the cross around your neck if you want, remember the woman who worked at the airport in London,who lost her job because ,she refused to take the cross off from around her neck, yet others wearing the scarf, were allowed to wear it , because of their religon. so who is descriminating against who? !!!!!
Gerry Cowie
Nov 4th 2009, 22:50
It's funny how so many people want to have their cake and eat it!
People want everybody to be equal and to accept one another etc yet they want it subject to their own prejudices. Political correctness gone mad is what this decision is all about.
Julian Borg says:- "It's also fascinating how so many people can quickly lose the plot when it comes to religion." Then he goes on to say that he does not want religion in schools! Why?
He should be reminded that nobody is forcing his children to look at any religious symbols. That is his own interpretation. So, who has lost the plot here, Mr Borg?
Josianne Spiteri
Nov 4th 2009, 22:49
The cross is a religous symbol and the church just shows that it hasnt changed a little bit from the inquisition till now by the reaction it has shown.Always full of arrogance and egoism.The law is the law and crucifixes will go wether you like it or not.Who gives anyone the right to impose religous symbols on others?By not respecting this law the church shows how much it desrespects diversity.I dont give a heck what the church thinks but there is a law and any non christian has the same rights as any christian.The symbol of the crucifix on walls is more important to the church then to bring to justice the pedophile priests?How can the church make any religous declarations and preach about religion when priests are breaking the law and taking away children's innocence everyday by sexually abusing children under the benediction of the pope.Why does a priest who abuses kids take a promotion while a normal citizen that breaks a lesser law end up in prison?Everyone has the right to practice any religion they want but not impose it on anyone else.
John Smith
Nov 4th 2009, 22:18
HOW ABOUT HANGING ON OUR ROOFS, BALCONIES, WINDOWS ETC... A LIGHTED CRUCIFIX
FROM NEXT MONDAY WEEK? WHO IS FOR THIS SUGGESTION PASS IT TO OTHERS!!!!
Galea. L
Nov 4th 2009, 21:53
Andy Towler
This is OUR country. It is vastly Roman Catholic. Crucifixes have been on our walls, schools and everywhere for ages. Those who don't like them are a tiny minority. We are proud of out beliefs and shall not allow them to be suppressed because some followers of any other religion or sect feel offended, especially more so if they are foreigners. They are free to leave and go back to their own countries. No one sent for them.
For those who are saying that the crescent is the symbol of Islam it is not. Islam does not have any symbols because they are prohibited. This case arose out of an atheist and it is atheists who are causing all these problems. They should get the message that the vast majority of Maltese citizens are Roman Catholics and shall not be threatened by no one to remove the crucifixes and other religious symbols. Let them try I say.
mark aquilina
Nov 4th 2009, 21:32
@Peter Aquilina
After crucifix ban like in other european countries..classbooks have to be re written..and at the end of the line...sharia law...I hope now people will start to realize.
Raymond Cassar
Nov 4th 2009, 21:25
Hey! Shall we remove the George Cross from our flag too! It may offend.
Kevin Cassar
Nov 4th 2009, 21:01
@ Mark Borg ..... Ok you say where does energy come from and answer God. But that brings us to the next question you choose to ignore - Where does God come from? Oh I know you will say he has always been and always will be. Let's say I accept that, the next question would be how do you know the God you worship is the real one (there are hundreds of them throughout human history). You'll then say it's in the Bible which is God's word and is perfect. I open the bible and check out the first chapter.....God created light and later created the sun and the moon. Perfect??? I guess not. Does that answer your question?
S. Calleja
Nov 4th 2009, 20:58
As a rationalist I have no problem with having crucifixes in classrooms, as long as one is fair with other religions and allow them to portray their symbols too, such as with images of Buddha, Vrishna and the Koran. One cannot apply rules to suite one's particular beliefs and forget about the beliefs of others. One cannot have it his way all the time, especially with matters unproven.
If one has problems with portraying Buddha, then someone else has a problem with portraying the crucifix. It's that simple. The fact the Malta is majority Catholic is irrelevant to the argument, since the constitution is clear about the liberty of having any religion one feels most comfortable in, as long as no law is broken.
One might have Jesus very strong at heart, but don't forget about the other who might love his Buddha more than you do love Jesus. If this point is not clear, then one cannot argue further since all arguments must follow a rational path based on well established universal facts, not just assumptions created to protect one's perception of the world.
Dennis Zammit
Nov 4th 2009, 20:20
To Julian Borg;
We live in a Roman Catholic country and our religion is embedded in our constitution. Therefore, we are proud of our Christianity and to be more precise, proud to be Roman Catholics. On the other hand, this should not be a problem to others like you who do not believe in God, not to mention 'any God'.
You may keep your opinion but please respect the opinion of the majority of the population. There are other countries who have their religion embedded in their constitution and some of them even in the official name of their country such as Iran and Egypt. At least you can practice your religion or non-religion in peace in Malta without the state imposing its religion on you.
Insomma, if Julian Borg is an atheist, who cares; we are PROUD ROMAN CATHOLICS and will be in full force behind the Maltese Roman Catholic Church and Mons. Paul Cremona OP when we need to defend our religious rights.
Joseph Cauchi
Nov 4th 2009, 20:07
Why are the atheists so adamant at the removal of the Holy Crucifix?
Are they so scared of this Holy Image?
As far as I know, only the DEVIL is scared of the Holy Crucifix!
JC.
edward bartolo
Nov 4th 2009, 19:42
Although the symbol may go, the European Court of Human rights, can never get rid of the cross, because it is an inseparable part of everyday life! Whether they like or not, the REAL CROSS will remain.
The fallacy enshrined so dearly by so many atheists, is the assumption, that religion, had the social function, to provide answers as to how the Earth and Universe originated! Moreover, they say, that in the past, religion could explain many natural phenomena now attributed to science.
However, Christianity does not have that function. Every Christian who knows his/her religion, knows that, the purpose of Christianity, was never related to what these atheists claim.
Maxine Chetcuti
Nov 4th 2009, 19:35
I have a suggestion. Instead of banning the crucifix from a class, I would rather have a symbol of other religions hung next to it, which partain to a pupil with a different religion. Say if there is a Muslim in the class, a symbol of the crescent can be hung also on the wall.
Peter Aquilina
Nov 4th 2009, 19:33
The silent "invasion" of Europe...........
After the crucifix ban, what is next ???
We will know and understand in the not so distant future.........but then perhaps it will be too late.
Then, there will come a time when our descendants will have to abide by another particular religious institution .....a religious institution that outnumbers the present one.
G .Mangion
Nov 4th 2009, 19:23
@ all anti Crux !
Crucifixes are there to Stay what ever happens,
@ Julian Borg : MARK My Words !!!
M. Debono
Nov 4th 2009, 19:18
@Julian Borg
How can anyone be an atheist?
Have you ever looked around you?
Where does matter come from? According to Einstein E=mc2, that is the mass around us has its beginning from energy.
So far, so good, this has been proven by the Big Bang theory, where a single point of energy exploded outward, creating planets, stars etc.
HOWEVER one thing is still a big mystery!
Where did this energy come from - and science cannot and will never explain this question.
The Church does!!
T.gauci
Nov 4th 2009, 19:16
@Raymond Camilleri
but liberals are doing this to appease the Islamic Religion. Islam will soon be the dominating Religion in Europe and you'll have to succumb to their faith whether you're a Christian, Atheist etc... most of liberals who are Atheists tend to favor Muslims and embrace multi culture, immigration and diversity. as a right wing Atheist i disagree with removing the crosses. i accept that the majority of Malta is catholic and i will defend that. i rather have a Christian neighbor than a Muslim. Christians doesn't fear atheists but they fear Muslims and so do i because Muslims are more extremists and dominating. being atheist in Europe is not a big deal but being atheist in a Islamic country it is. you got the point now ?
h galea
Nov 4th 2009, 19:14
Please, please, solution to this small problem, Each student of differant religion can fix next to the cruifix his simble of his religion.This i hope every religion will be respected.
S. Calleja
Nov 4th 2009, 18:48
@ Franz-Josef Bartoli
It is not a human right to have a crucifix in the classroom. If one were to give that right, then one would also have to give the right to have Buddhas, Korans and all other artefacts representing the various religions of the world. You cannot discriminate one religion over the other.
What is human right, on the other hand, is the right to believe and practise any religion one feels comfortable in, within the limits of the law.
"The crucifix means that God loves us all so much that died for us all, no matter what we believe in."
Not for everyone. For some people it is just a symbol of Christianity, and a hideous sign of an old torture technique used by the Romans in more violent times.
Dr Francis Saliba
Nov 4th 2009, 18:45
@KevinCassar,
Why do you say you won’t argue with me and immediately proceed to argue? I never addressed you anyway! Did I say anywhere that “that everyone else should have (my) same opinion or belief”? Of course not! Since you ask, I would never “lose my faith if there were no crucifix around”. But being a practicing Christian living in an officially Catholic country I resist any atheist who would impose his atheism on me by the deprivation of having the crucifix hanging in Malta's classrooms, or anywhere else, to accommodate his lack any religious conviction and who would abolish the public expression of the Christian faith to Maltese Catholics practicing their religion in their own Catholic country!
Franz-Josef Bartoli
Nov 4th 2009, 18:30
Isn't it a human right to keep the crucifixes in classrooms ? So now there is a discrimination from the European Council on us European Catholics, who must also have all human rights as well. The crucifix means that God loves us all so much that died for us all, no matter what we believe in. So why this person was offended ? Now I am offended by the Council of Europe for Human Rights.
Jeremy J Camilleri
Nov 4th 2009, 18:21
Benjamin Pule..What has religion got to do with nations?
Have you ever realised that there a number of Maltese nationals who are Muslim?
Kevin Cassar
Nov 4th 2009, 17:53
@ Dr Frans Saliba .... I shall not argue with you because it's useless. What I will point out though is that it is ok for you to have an opinion. It's also ok for you to have a belief and thus "know" that you are right. It's not ok to think that everyone else should have your same opinion or belief and I feel a person of your level of education should know better. You know nothing about Atheism and prove it when you say it's a religion or that someone can impose atheism by removing religious symbols. Would you lose your faith if there were no crucifixes around?
alexander pace gouder
Nov 4th 2009, 17:27
First we have contraversal ideas on TV.Now in Parlament. Here we go again la la la la la. If I remember well our constituation states that oUr religion is the Roman Catholic. OUR SIGN IS THE CRUCIFIX. tHIS IS WHERE OUR LORD GAVE HIS LIFE TO REDEM US. The emblem of SALVATION. WELL DONE MR.CASA IN A FEW SENTANCES YOU HAVE SAID IT ALL. AND BY THE WAY MALTA IS ONE OF THE FEW COUNTRIES WHICH RESPECT THE VIEWS OF ALL RELIGIONS.
Raymond Camilleri
Nov 4th 2009, 17:20
hehe Mr Charles J buttigieg!! What are you on and on about? The lady taking the case to ECHR is an italian citizen of Finnish origin, therefore 200% european...read before you shoot from the hip and reveal your prejudices... secondly I do not give a hoot if there are crosses or not in classrooms... I don't mind them but won't miss them either... third 'we are European and the cross is ours' ...go tell it to the French, Swedes, FIns, Danes etc etc....
Jason Fenech
Nov 4th 2009, 17:17
@J Farrugia
Christian to the core! If only you could keep religion to yourself instead of bringing atheism into the equation. This has nothing to do with atheism but I think you're too narrow minded to grasp the concept.
As for atheism, keep in mind that everyone is born an atheist. It is through indoctrination that one becomes a christian, a muslim, a buddhist, etc. Atheism, as opposed to religion, is not enforced but embraced through rational thought. On top of that every believer is an atheist with respect to all other religions. Despite all the double talk virtually no religion tolerates other religions hence the many religion motivated conflicts. I have yet to see a mono-theistic religion tolerate another mono-theistic religion. All vouch that theirs is the one and only, which is simply crap, to put it bluntly.
Joe Savona
Nov 4th 2009, 17:15
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/David-Cameron-On-Lisbon-Treaty-Tory-Leader-To-Announce-British-Sovereignty-Act/Article/200911115433064?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15433064_David_Cameron_On_Lisbon_Treaty%3A_Tory_Leader_To_Announce_British_Sovereignty_Act
Charles J. Buttigieg
Nov 4th 2009, 17:10
We are Europeans and our culture is Christian. Jesus is our God and the CRUCIFIX is our symbol to demonstrate our pride in our Lord. All those who do not like our religion and culture just pack up and leave us alone. Shame on ECHR for succumbing to Islamic threats. Long live CHRISTIANITY.
ECHR.EU or whoever, it is foreign interference. We should erect a mega crucifix near the break water to serve as a notice to Muslims and other denominations that we are a Christian Country and if they get offended by the sign of the cross it’s just hard luck to them
Julian Borg
Nov 4th 2009, 17:01
@ James Grech
No you haven't understood my argument correctly, but I do admire your imagination, I'm really trying to figure out how you came to the conclusion that I want to destroy mosques on the island. I'm an Atheist, not a bigot.
It's also fascinating how so many people can quickly lose the plot when it comes to religion. I just also want to point out the economic genius that is Paul Spiteri, who believes that we should leave the EU, because they have hurt his feelings. These sound like the same compassionate people that were instrumental in kicking the muslims out of the Sliema apartment that they were using for prayer groups. People that talk about Human Rights as long as it has to do with them.
I just want the religious pandering away from my children, the same reason you don't want some other sect passing pamphlets to your kids in the street, I don't want religion at all in their schools, and if I did, I'd know where to send them... Church School.
Paul Bonnici
Nov 4th 2009, 17:01
As an agnostic, I strongly disagree with the ban on crucifixes in classrooms.
I still firmly believe in Christian values which are being eroded by the gradual penetration of fundamental Islam Europe.
Gays have their rights too, equal rights too and we should respect them. Gays have the right to family life, to live together as loving human beings and the state should accord them these rights.
S Aquilina
Nov 4th 2009, 16:59
@ Julian Borg
Where you forced to look at the crucifix at school? I don't think so. It seems that today you opted not to look at it but that is your opinion.
In a few years time Turkey will join the EU. That's 70million muslims in the EU. How will they react if this happened to them?
By the way...the Maltese Parlaiment has already approved the accession of Turkey on our behalf!
C.Busuttil
Nov 4th 2009, 16:57
@S. Calleja
Buddha, Vishna and the prophet of doom do not belong to these island and history and tradition are proof of this. Those who adhere to these religions must understand it and probably don't make a fuss about it. Its only certain liberals disguised as atheists that put forward these ridiculous arguments. Otherwise if they are so cheeky they have a hidden agenda.
If you are strong in your ideals you need not to fear the crucifix unless you are a satanist.
adrian aquilina
Nov 4th 2009, 16:54
it is not cultural..it is religion..no religious symbols should be in public places..public places are for everyone..if a christian symbol is allowed then all symbols should be allowed...religious fundementalism must stop in this country as it is holding it back..
Roxanne Borg
Nov 4th 2009, 16:54
I think we underestimate children too - because whatever religion they (and the parents) might be I'm sure there is an objective way of dealing with their asking what the cross means, and why it's there. I may not be a Buddhist, but I could potentially explain who Buddha was to a child, and the child is potentially capable of understanding. Parents of other religions can do the same about Jesus, objectively and with respect: isn't respect what's it's all about at the end of the day? Another thing: if the sight of a man on a cross affects children so much, why don't parents of Christian children complain? The argument that they are taught and explained to doesn't hold, because non-Christians could do the same thing to their children and it wouldn't affect them.
It's ok to have a society full of sexual images, sexual messages and violent games on pcs and internet, but it's not ok to have a cross in a classroom?
Also,let's be realistic and see how many Muslims (without any disrespect purely as an example) would give up wearing their Burka because it disrespects/offends people of other religions any time soon?
James Cachia
Nov 4th 2009, 16:44
The decision on the removal of crucifixes from schools in Italy does not come from the European Union or any of its institutions. Secondaly I totaly agree with Mr. Casa's comments because everyone should be free to express his religious beliefs. When muslims gathered in prayer along Sliema front, the European Courth of Human Rights didn't interfere.
J Farrugia
Nov 4th 2009, 16:43
No statues of Buddhas or any other religion. Our constitution is clear. Only the Roman Catholic Religion. Only that and nothing else. And woe betide those who try to tamper with this. Nothing is imposed but no one will change the fact that our religion is the catholic one unles you dont want any trouble in our tiny island, God forbid. Keep your atheism to yourselves and no minority is going to impose anything on the majority of the Maltese people.
J Farrugia
Nov 4th 2009, 16:40
@ Julian Borg - sorry to disappoint you but your children will have to accept the crucifix as a fact and even if you go to the highest european courts , nothing will change this fact.. Otherwise take your children out to yuour own home and not to our public schools. Ther ewill not be only one Cross but there will be dozens of crosses to cross both you and your children. That is a fact.
ian Christie
Nov 4th 2009, 16:40
If Mr Casa wants symbol of our culture and heritage a statue of the fertility goddess as found in temples around Malta before they got replaced by churches and crucifixes. And for some the Cross is a symbol of an oppressive religion with a horrible human rights record and a mentality still stuck in the middleages.
I say let them keep thier crosses if they accept to hang a star of david, a buddha hindu idols........
Dr Francis Saliba
Nov 4th 2009, 16:40
@JulianBorg
Your children are not being forced to look at any crucifix on any classroom wall. Unless they suffer from some form of ocular combined with other paralyses, they are absolutely free to look in all other directions! I suspect that your underlying motive is the surreptitious imposition of atheism on all believers, you would be much better employed, for example, in criticizing the public display of a tasteless large phallic symbol in the center of a busy traffic roundabout distracting drivers! You give the unmistakable impression that your real aim is the public imposition of a “religion” called “atheism” on everybody else.
Douglas Bagnall
Nov 4th 2009, 16:38
The Council of Europe.
Now you are finding out what you realy voted for and why we English do not wan`t it but have had it forced on us by Blair and Brown.
This is only the begining, you aint seen nothing yet, mark my words.
D. Bagnall
England.
Denis Catania
Nov 4th 2009, 16:31
Lol lol lol lol
David Attard
Nov 4th 2009, 16:30
Some statements made oon this blog are erratic and based on misinformation. This was not an EU ruling. It is a sentenvce from the European Court of Human Rights. This court's judges are elected by the parliamentary assembly of the COUNCIL OF EUROPE.
Let's get the facts right before we open our gobs!
Yani Ellul
Nov 4th 2009, 16:27
@ D Vella...
fair enough.... what would your position be however if Turkey joins the EU and has islamic symbols on its flag??? what if it offends catholics??
it doesnt make sense, to ask turkey to remove such symbols!! why?? turkey's flag is its identity!
S. Calleja
Nov 4th 2009, 16:23
@ Dr Francis Saliba
Then is it ok if I put a statue of Buddha, Vishna or Mohammed in our classrooms as well? Like that, we won't be imposing atheism on anybody...
James Grech
Nov 4th 2009, 16:21
Julian Borg
So, if I'm understand your argument correctly, we should also demolish every Mosque on the Island since it's a symbol of 1 particular religion !!!
Henry J Bonett
Nov 4th 2009, 16:19
Atheist bloggers I have read so far on this subject tend to write in bitterness rather than objectivity. A cross, a heart or any symbol that is positive should evoke no negative feelings. I have had friends and acquaintance from many different religious beliefs and I have never felt threatened to see any forms of worship that they had displayed in their homes. As long as I was never asked to revere them. Likewise, I had no compuction about having any of mine seen when they visited me. At a time when I regularly visited Muslim countries I made lasting friends and was always respectful of their culture. Likewise I would expect anyone visitisng or, more so, making a living here, to respect our Christian culture the benefits of which they are benefiting from. This European Court of Human Rights decision is certainly not in favour of the much vaunted term 'multiculturism' but the annihilation of cultures,
Benjamin Pule'
Nov 4th 2009, 16:11
So next time I visit Libya and I see women wearing their burka, I will complain and ask them to remove them as it is not my religion. This is the ridiculous state we have come to!!
Christopher Grech
Nov 4th 2009, 16:07
Now that the Lisbon treaty will be ratified, by undemocratic means, you will soon see the onslaught of this political decision! You see the EU will undermine most liberties, such as placing a crucifix on the wall.
Why did I say, undemocratic? Well I am sure that if the Germans and Austrians today, would vote no to the Lisbon treaty. It is about party politics, and nothing to do with what the people want!
How ironic, this world is. The demo-christian party in Malta (PN), who were so fervent into placing Malta into the EU now cannot stop foreign courts interference as they would have to abide by the European Courts!
This is only one step away, from the true "teeth" of the EU institutions.
Dr Francis Saliba
Nov 4th 2009, 16:04
The crucifix in a classroom or in any other public place does not "impose' anything on anybody. The prohibition of the crucifix, or of any other religious symbol, in any public place would be the IMPOSITION OF ATHEISM on everybody else!!
D Vella
Nov 4th 2009, 15:51
stop this ridiculous excuse of culture and heritage...it's a religious symbol..thats all and nothing more. It seems that all these people are clutching at straws.. The end that all you are hoping for does not justify the means you are making to get it..or can't you all see that?.
Religious symbols of any kind should not be permitted in public places. What gives anyone the right to offend anyone else?. Keep religion private or send your children to Christian schools.
Andy Towler
Nov 4th 2009, 15:49
Those who say that christianity is one of the most tolerant in the world, why can't you be tolerant of non-believing parents' wish for their children not to be subliminally indoctrinated by religious symbols in classrooms?
Andre Rizzo
Nov 4th 2009, 15:47
I just fail to see how the cruxifix is supposed to be a symbol of unity, hospitality and harmony. The cruxifix is a symbol of christianity. Full stop. It transmits the idea that it is THE religion of the country which is unacceptable in a truly democratic and secular country that preaches tolerance and diversity. The ECHR has always been forward-thinking in its thoroughly argued judgements and never accomodating to narrow-minded conservatives like Mr Casa. I would suggest that, for starters, Mr Casa goes to Asia and asks any person in the street what they think when they see the cruxifix and he will be in for a few surprises.
Ian Pace
Nov 4th 2009, 15:44
@ Ray Mangion: Amen!
Yani Ellul
Nov 4th 2009, 15:43
Well said Mr. Casa,
i fully agree with you, the crucifix is part or our culture and identity and we should be left to use it and display it wherever we want, unless it is used to offend people, which in my opinion when on a classroom wall doesnt.
i ask this, if turkey eventually joins the eu, if someone feels offended by the islamic symbol used on the turkish flag ( crescent and star) and goes to the European Court of Human Rights, will the court tell Turkey to chage its flag?? if it does, do you think the turks will accept this???
i do not wish to make a religious issue out of this i am just making a point that things that give people an identity can not be touched!!
i rest my case!!
Paul Spiteri
Nov 4th 2009, 15:43
I would leave the crucifix for Catholics and Protestants and if there is a Muslim place the Crescent. Those who are non believers are free to put in theit symbol (unless it is the satan).
Any person of goodwill will definitely object to evil and wrongdoing.
Alla, Dias, Zeus or God is a greater being that is the creator. Coexistence among of people of goodwill cannot object to the Crucifix, Buddha, Allah in good faith. Any fundamentalism and fanatics make bad use of religion. Religion is prayer and a relationship with God and theology goes into the study of God.
Malta has Christ in the centre and there are non believers. But the commandments and Christian values and their symbol is our culture. As is the diety of the Goddess of Fertility which had the notion of eternity, childbearing and goodness. Christ revealed that we ought to love our enemies and make as friends.
But no one cannot enforce that our Crucifix must be removed. Christ is here to stay. If enforced I recommend that we dissassociate with the EU and leave its membership.
Muscat. Pat
Nov 4th 2009, 15:43
Is Gonzi going to stomp his feet and disobey the Court of Human Rights? Before the EU referendum we heard so much human rights talk about Europe ! I used to hear the fine propaganda on RTK the Church's Radio, of how "human rights" will be made stronger with the entry of Malta into the EU. Of course the Council of Europe is not the EU, but the two institutions are complimentary and in tandem! Its like saying it was the right hand that offended you not the left hand! Apologists reponsible for the fine mess in UNITE! This is the beginning of the end for the Europe of Cain!
Michael Neville Cassar
Nov 4th 2009, 15:42
The Council of Europe should be told that instead of bringing unity they are creating bearers and that we, can never renounce the Crucifix for their decision , and Malta should should show its support with Italy.
Christopher Mamo
Nov 4th 2009, 15:38
I personally do not think that this is a matter for any International Court, especially if this specifically bans a symbol of one particular Religion or family of Religions (if one were to separate Catholicism from Christianity). In order for justice to be properly served, the sentence (which I reiterate does not imho fall within the scope of an International Court) should have banned ALL public displays of symbols of ALL religions, inlcuding those worn by officals, those located on civic buildings, etc.. Otherwise, this is simply a discriminatory act against a Religion which - all in all - is one of the most tolerant in today's world.
Otherwise, the next step given the direction that's been taken is the removal of crosses and other imagery from atop domes of Churches, from inside niches, etc..
Julian Borg
Nov 4th 2009, 15:38
David Casa can have his religious symbols in his home, or in his church, if he so wishes, he can pop it in his office, it's his office after all. But what David Casa can't do is tell me that my children are forced to look at religious symbols in their classroom, it's a public classroom not a church school. David Casa should stick to politics, ie. the separation of Church and State, which is what the EU is trying to enforce.
I don't want McDonalds peddling burgers in my kids schools, I don't want Cocacola pushing sugary drinks, and I don't want priests pushing stuff I don't believe in on my kids. When they're old enough, they can find religion, until then I want the religious zealots out of public buildings and back to where they belong, the church, the states, and the middle east.
Joh galea
Nov 4th 2009, 15:31
Its about time that europeans woke up to the fact that our democracy is slipping in to a totalitarian state. We have in europe, people who have not been democractically elected making a lot of decisions. All this has happened a day after the Lisbon treated had been finalised. We are losing our democracy! Its Ok to put up gay rights poster of men holding hands with each other and its OK to express your sexaul orientation in public, but it has become unacceptable to express your religious views in public. We are also losing our freedom of speech. A one sided opinion is becoming our rule of law in Europe! How can you say its Ok to be gay and its not Ok to be christian!
Ray Mangion
Nov 4th 2009, 15:22
The crucifix is a symbol of Christianity. It should be left alone for those who want to worship it. some people need to see the symbol of Christ crucified to be able to pray; others just believe without any icons. It has to be said, however, how the Crucifix is abused in Christian courts when it is used as a symbol to tell the truth, yet so many kiss it and lie through their teeth and get away with murder. That is worse that blasphemy.
Andre Cassar
Nov 4th 2009, 15:18
i dont agree for any reason of the whole world