Christians should be protagonists in politics - bishop

Franco Farrugia

Nov 4th 2009, 08:57

At Frans Sammut - Well, if you haven t understood my message, then ... my message isn t worth understanding. How very simple!

Gerry Cowie

Nov 3rd 2009, 19:54

@Steve Pace - Don't get me wrong! I am all in favour of everybody putting their oar in when it comes to politics.

The issue I have here is that certain secularist elements regularly launch attacks, primarily on the Catholic Church, seeking every opportunity to lambast and belittle and discredit her.

So I have no truck at all with your opinion and support it entirely!

The other thing the secularists ignore is that fact that a large amount of law is based upon sound christian principles. But then they will pick and choose what they want!

Since Malta is in the main catholic, without wishing to deny the part of any other religion or indeed of non religious folk, this really irritates secularists who continue to deny this fact.

The main idea of secularism is even to deny that God exists and to keep Him out of daily life. That, as any believer will tell you, is impossible. Religion is a way of life and that means that religion is an integral part of culture and daily life.

Steve Pace

Nov 3rd 2009, 19:00

@ Gerrie Cowie - Careful now Mr. Cowie... MGR Grech is not referring to Roman Catholics according to the translation presented here ... He is referring to Christians. Now you know well as much as i do that there are protestant christians and many more different factions . Most of them differ in a number of ways to the Roman Catholic religion.

So yes , by all means let's have them all involved in politics . We should also have other denominations involved as well. The Muslim and Jewish community in Malta number quite a few and i am sure their contribution to modern politics and society would be very valid . Their involvement will make a truely multi-cultural Malta.

Gerry Cowie

Nov 2nd 2009, 20:20

The Maltese are sick to their back teeth of secularists trying to change Malta into what it will not become - a wholly secular state with no influence from the Catholic Church! It is a myth that Malta is not Catholic. I am not sure how much time Mr William P Flynn actually spends in Malta, but if he goes there and talks to people he will find that his desire to convert Malta to secularism is by no means popular. Mr Flynn seems to be digging very hard to try to find anything he can to discredit the Catholic Church, as is blatantly obvious from these and other blogs. Thankfully the people of Malta have their heads screwed firmly on and can weather the storm of Mr Flynn's points of view - for they are not arguments!

Raymond Sammut

Nov 2nd 2009, 01:22

@ William P Flynn

I have never been quite sure, for example, of IVF myself, actually. Just try imagine the octo-man who had only wagered for a triplet with a test tube. It would surely have some impact on his budget. I do not think that science and technology alone can serve as remedy to the maladies of the secular masses.

@ Gerry Cowie ---"... [if] the Church, kept out of politics altogether, society would then often lack a corporate voice against the many evils which the secularist humanists would like to have seep in whilst we are not looking!"

You do have a point, and I fully agree with a positive role by the Church in this regard, namely, good and accountable governance. I am not convinced, however, that the RC Church of Malta plays its role as one would expect it should do. Ultimately it is the nation's constitution and Constitutional Law that should provide the safeguards that you are alluding to. The Vatican, through its dioceses, invariably omits this fact and ensures instead to take matters upon themselves without having been asked by the general public who are sole proprietors of the constitution.

Frans Sammut

Nov 2nd 2009, 00:12

I must confess I did not understand what Franco Farrugia was talking about. Did you?

William P Flynn

Nov 1st 2009, 22:24

@ Franco Farrugia

I agree but I think you’d know that the bishop isn’t doing this in sporadic isolation but in a planned controlled strategic manner. (ref Canon 1386.1)

The church itself isn’t a democratic institution. I don’t think my comments would make the Osservatore Romano. But it has learned well the workings of pliability of democracy and uses the Maltese news media well; although I wonder if it isn’t counter productive by riling Maltese secular and ex and non-catholics.

@Raymond Sammut

Although popes, kings and dictators aren’t involved here, political machinations at bishop level, under the discreet supervision and control of the Holy See (again ref Canon 1386.1), still occur with disastrous consequences.
South Vietnam and Rwanda are more recent examples.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ng%C3%B4_%C4%90%C3%ACnh_Di%E1%BB%87m

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4615171

In the Gozo/Malta example it is a campaign to ensure the religious coercion of catholic politicians to block divorce, IVF etc.

Franco Farrugia

Nov 1st 2009, 16:21

Contrary to what Mr Frans Sammut states, I believe that the Bishop of Gozo is seekind ... and getting .. far too much media coverage and he resembles a modern-day Michael Gonzi! Or tries to. He is also very insular, and believes that religion should be part of the establishment of the State. I do not very much believe in established religion, anyway.

William P Flynn

Nov 1st 2009, 14:26

That Malta is catholic is a myth and if it weren’t, it would still be irrelevant.

Malta is a secular country; part of secular EU.

If clerics and apologists don’t accept this fact, then people are obliged to remind them through the facility of these comments; which repeatedly and consistently show that Maltese citizens are sick to their back teeth of clergy and apologists interfering in their private lives, their sexual relationships, family planning and divorce.

If the bishops continue to get involved in politics they, ably assisted by vacuous irrelevant comments by the usual suspects, will simply fast – track the church’s self destruction; which started the last time it got involved in politics.

Gerry Cowie

Nov 1st 2009, 14:16

@ Raymond Sammut - which side of the fence are you on here? On the one hand you claim to sum up what Mgr Grech has said, relying solely on a few quotes made by the writer of the article, which can by no means give the complete text of what he did say. On the other you poke fun at him for doing his job.

Surely if the Church or, in its wider sense, those who make up the Church, kept out of politics altogether, society would then often lack a corporate voice against the many evils which the secularist humanists would like to have seep in whilst we are not looking! This does not decry the contribution of any others, since whether people are religious or they are not, they are people, all of whom will be directly affected by what the politicians - also human beings - do.

Thankfully, despite those who wish to dwell on the faults of the Church in the past, in order to try to discredit the Church, the Church has moved on since the Crusades and the Inquisition and the discovery of the world being round, not to mention the world wars.

Charles Sammut

Nov 1st 2009, 13:36

Can the local church make up its mind. It preaches the great wonders to be achieved through multiculturalism but then insists that politics be guided by "Catholic" tenets.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you accept tens of thousands of immigrants who profess different faiths, you have to accomodate their needs as well. Let's take divorce for example. It is the norm in Islam, so is polygamy. These people have every right to live by their beliefs. So the state must perforce cater for these circumstances.

There are also many tens of thousands of Maltese citizens who have long lost any faith in the Catholic faith. What right does the church have to impose its laws on these people?

It is not just divorce legislation which needs addressing. Inheritance law needs to be addressed urgently to cover the various permutations created by polygamy and divorce as practised in Islam. So does the welfare system. Ahh the joys of multiculturalism and diversity. The legal profession is heading for one hell of a headache.

Raymond Sammut

Nov 1st 2009, 11:48

@ Gerry Cowie -- I thought it was the 20th century. I do not think Mr Flynn is totally off the mark, though. History can repeat itself, and we need to learn from history. The only flaw in Mr Flynn's argument is that here we are not dealing with popes and dictators. It is only Bishop Mario Grech conducting his pastoral role within the democratic Maltese political community on Mata. No need for anyone to go overboard or get carried away, and lose sight of the bishop's simple message.

Gerry Cowie

Nov 1st 2009, 11:17

Whilst we have all been asleep, William P Flynn has had time over in Australia to think up his latest diatribe against the Catholic Church which he so abhors, being a secularist.

The Church has moved on, and harping back to the past with the most extreme examples he can muster, Mr Flynn hopes to turn people against the Church. He always crows about the 21st Century! Past events are easy targets!

Malta is a mainly Catholic country and will never succumb to Mr Flynn's desires.

Mr Gahn's "contribution" is short and again meaningless. One cannot deny that many laws are based upon Christian ideals.

The Church, in its wider sense, means people who belong to the Church. Those people, like any others, have a right to become involved in politics. For instance in the defence of human life, would you expect Christians to remain silent in the defence of the unborn and leave it only to those of no religious persuasion who think likewise? Politicians affect everybody's lives!

You cannot have your cake and eat it!

The lessons of history are clear enough! And they enable one to stop conveniently dwelling in the past and thus to move on

Frans Sammut

Nov 1st 2009, 10:48

Why was this piece of news slotted away at the bottom of the page? I strongly believe it should have featured more prominently allowing its contents to be more conspicuous. I feel this pastor has very laudable proposals to make and should be given wider media coverage. Speaking out on social aspects that are not usually deemed as pertaining to the church does not necessarily mean that those who deliver them are nostalgic for a "a theocracy based on myths". Should the latter scenario prove to be the case then I would agree with Mr Gahn. But I need to be convinced it is not simply a skimpily thought out implication before I start thinking of Mgr Grech as a theocratic myth-maker. Someone, anyone, who speaks out on behalf of families hit by the local recession should not, can not, be accused in this cavalier fashion. Perhaps Mr Gahn would like to reconsider his opinion regarding Mgr Grech's courageous bid to defend Gozitan families from threats to their quality of life.

Raymond Sammut

Nov 1st 2009, 10:46

@ Eric Gahn -- You will get your secular government once you get Gonzi out of Castile. All Bishop Mario Grech is saying here is, that when faced by an issue, political science alone (the Machiavellian doctrine, more or less) is not the way forward. Morality, strong ethics, and a degree of compassion must also prevail in the overall solution. But of course, Bishop Mario Grech has his circuitous way of saying the obvious. It gives him something to do (my guess). There seems to be a pattern to it, actually. He keeps bobbing his head up every month or so, hoping to be given a hearing and release himself from the clerical infinite boredom.

William P Flynn

Nov 1st 2009, 10:30

Read "Hitler's Pope" to see what happened when 100 years the catholic church set in motion a series of political machinations in Europe in order to enforce canon law and the supremacy of the pope in Germany, which was then numerically the most catholic nation in Europe.

Eugenio Pacelli’s, later Pius XII, political activities first fanned tensions in Serbia which exacerbated the events leading to WWI, then two decades later, handed the lion’s share of 23 million catholic votes to Hitler; thus enabling him to become Chancellor.

All through the centuries the pope and the Vatican plotted and politicised religion with disastrous consequences killing millions.

This bishop proves the lessons of history aren’t clear enough.

Eric Gahn

Nov 1st 2009, 08:18

When will this man learn that politics and religion are two different entities. What we need is a secular state not a theocracy based on myths.