Nationalist MP Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando tells Herman Grech he has nothing to be ashamed of.

The court has just cleared two ex-DCC members of corruption charges in connection with the Mistra case. How do you feel?

I feel relieved for the people involved and their families. I can imagine the trauma they've been through.

The Mepa auditor also levelled accusations at you...

He didn't really point fingers at anybody but he did mention the word 'corruption', which I find unacceptable. If I were the Mepa auditor I'd hang my head in shame. He has contributed to his two colleagues' distress in the past year-and-a-half. When he himself was involved in the DCC he was instrumental in helping out a particular developer in an application which touches the Mistra development in question. It was a massive development, which also included hosting discos.

Despite being exonerated in the legal sense, the fact remains that you said you were unaware of the details of the project, when a contract clearly shows you were well aware what was going on. Why is it that to this day, many still believe you lied about the case?

I don't blame people for misunderstanding what I actually said. Alfred Sant had all the time to twist my words around to his advantage. I stand by every single word I said to the public and to my party officials. To this day I still don't know the applicant. The applicant and the leaseholder are two different people. I didn't know the details of the project. I was never shown the final plans of this application because I had nothing to do with it.

You said you were calling Mepa officials to help your constituents, like other politicians do. But in reality you were lobbying for your personal interests. You stood to benefit from this contract.

I get dozens of people in my political office asking me to check on their applications. Every MP contacts the Mepa liaison officer. What was I supposed to do when the man who leased the land from me asked me to check the state of the application? Did you expect me to tell him to go away? And it wasn't my application in this case. I have nothing to hide.

The bottom line is that you would have benefitted from this contract.

I'm not expecting additional privileges as a politician. But the ordinary citizen has every right to approach the liaison officer, and that's what I did. I didn't put pressure on the liaison officer and this emerged in the court case.

But politicians have a code of ethics...

There is nothing which says... Look, I'm a politician, yes, but I'm a private citizen as well. This is my privately-owned land as well.

Is it ethically correct...?

...I did not put pressure on anyone. I never asked to meet with any Mepa board member. This was simply a suggestion put forward by the Mepa liaison officer in all innocence. I didn't give any input whatsoever to these meetings. I did absolutely nothing wrong.

Fine, you didn't put pressure, but you lobbied...

No. I refuse that charge. Never did I insist with anyone, especially Mepa board members, to do anything against their rules, their beliefs. As an observer, on the Mepa liaison officer's suggestion I attended meetings which mainly involved the applicants' architect and two board members. This insignificant application was to construct a platform next door to a massive development approved by the Mepa auditor when he was DCC chairman.

Were you aware this application concerned land which belonged to you?

Obviously I was.

With the benefit of hindsight, don't you think it would have been better to put all your cards on the table and show Lawrence Gonzi the contract well before the election?

I put all my cards on the table as soon as I was contacted by the Prime Minister's secretary. He organised the meeting when my party realised Alfred Sant was going to attack me. I gave all the information that was requested of me.

The Prime Minister got hold of the actual contract on the eve of the election.

When one of the party officials asked me to get the contract I did so at once. I was the one who first suggested undergoing a police investigation. When Alfred Sant went to the Police Commissioner and asked him to investigate the case I contacted the party official running the show and offered to go to the Commissioner to give him the contract myself. But he stopped me and I understood why - this wasn't JeffreyPN. It was GonziPN. That was before Alfred Sant waved it in front of the Prime Minister (in a televised news conference).

Wouldn't it have been better for you, of your own volition, to give the Prime Minister the contract before the Labour Party latched onto it? Ultimately it was in your interest because the Prime Minister needed to defend you. The Prime Minister got to know about the contract on the eve of the election.

That's a lie.

That's the information I have.

The Prime Minister got to know about the contract the day he called me over to his office.

When was that?

The information given to him didn't come only from me. He contacted the architect and the Mepa official involved in the application and they corroborated what I said.

I'm talking about the actual contract.

The contract completely exonerates me. Let me be blunt. You don't go around passing a contract around if you're not asked for it. The minute I was asked for it I gave it.

When?

I was asked for it on the Thursday.

Exactly. The eve of the election.

I gave the Prime Minister all the details I was asked for on the day he first called for me. Had he asked me for the contract on that day I would have given it to him. But the Prime Minister decided I was innocent and that we'd face up to our accusers. He left me in the hands of Richard Cachia Caruana, a person I respect. I gave him all the details and had he asked me for the contract I would have given it to him. At the time I even went to a lawyer who told me the contract exonerated me from Sant's charges.

But ultimately it was a political battle at the eleventh hour...

...I'm sorry, but I wasn't organising the battle. I was simply a foot soldier. So if any generals needed that contract I'd have given it to them immediately. Let me be blunt - with hindsight, I should have never escalated something as insignificant as the supposed Mistra scandal. It was against my interests.

Do you think you were used by your own party?

Alfred Sant fell for the bait. I was used to deviate the PL's attention from other issues.

Were you used by your own party?

Definitely. During the PBS recording Alfred Sant 'chickened out' of facing me because he said he 'didn't want to speak in front of Jeffrey because I am going to speak against Jeffrey'. I had been trying to defend myself for four days and he refused to face me. Right after that incident, (then PN general secretary) Joe Saliba and other high-ranking party officials declared 'Jeffrey won us the election today'. I have every respect for Sant but he is politically naive. He was the main reason why the PN won the last three elections and the EU referendum.

A lot of people would say the Mistra incident tarnished your reputation.

People twisted my words beyond recognition.

Do you regret the way you were used by the party?

Definitely. I'm a loyal foot soldier but I never accepted being used as a sacrificial lamb. I never expected the same people who used me to try to attack me, destroy my credibility and try to hound me out of Parliament.

Who are these people?

I'm not going to mention names. I don't want to harm my party.

Are you referring to top officials?

I'm totally excluding the Prime Minister, who I have complete faith in, and I exclude the current general secretary, who is being targeted by the same people who targeted me. I'm not saying this irresponsibly. I have proof to back up what I'm saying. I've spoken to the Prime Minister about it. People who love the party do not attack party members. But these people have caused an indescribable amount of harm to the party I love.

Are they still members of the party?

I'd rather not say.

Former general secretary Joe Saliba is on record saying he would have given up his seat in parliament if he was in your situation. What did you feel then?

I believe Mr Saliba should be ashamed of himself. I have witnesses who say Mr Saliba said that I won them the election.

Was he one of those who put pressure on you to give up your seat?

No one put direct pressure on me to give up my seat. But yes, there was a movement from within the party to hound me out by turning public opinion against me. Before everything was cleared, I actually told Mr Saliba I was not expecting a ministerial position. I am still not expecting it. Had they asked me to resign a ministerial post it wouldn't have been a problem. But trying to go against the will of the people - I was elected with over 5,000 votes from two electoral districts - trying to hound out an elected MP? I was sent by Mr Saliba and the Prime Minister to face Dr Sant. Do people think I would have faced Dr Sant if there was something remotely wrong?

So many months on from the Mistra incident, do you have any regrets about the way you reacted?

I am always careful not to harm the party I love so much. I'm sorry I allowed myself to be used in a cynical way.

I'm asking you whether you regret the way you behaved?

Yes - that I blindly followed orders. There isn't a single word I said before or after the election that I regret. I was careful in every statement I made. I do regret that I assisted in over-inflating a non-issue, which caused a lot of hurt.

Could you have caused this yourself because of your own statements? Isn't it sometimes better for a politician to stay in the background and let the people judge?

Yes. But that was what I was told to do by the person who was entrusted by the Prime Minister.

But this issue hounded you well after the election...

I know exactly why the people - who are supposed to be on my side of the fence - tried to hound me out. And it has nothing to do with the national or my party's interest. I'm not going to say more. I know that were it not for these people, the Mistra issue would have died at the election. The Labour Party didn't contribute to the hullaballoo the way some individuals in my party did.

Do you believe people in your party leaked the Mistra story to Labour?

That is the information I have.

Before the election?

Yes. Even certain misinformation that was leaked after the election came from these people...

Are these suspicions or do you have proof?

This is the subject of an internal inquiry within my party.

Only last June, you used your Mistra land to host a party for an MEP candidate. After what you've been through, wasn't that in bad taste?

Not at all. Don't I, as a private citizen, have a right to organise a party on my private property? If anyone finds it in bad taste, I'm sorry.

As a politician, wasn't it naive?

There is nothing wrong with organising a party on my land.

Do you think your party sees you as an asset or a liability?

I've always considered myself an asset to my party. Apart from the Mistra case, I've been regularly utilised by my party. I've been a party activist since Black Monday (October, 1979) when I was 15.

You are often touted as one of the disgruntled backbenchers in your parliamentary group. Are you?

Definitely not. I can't understand why anyone would consider me to be disgruntled.

Perhaps because during this legislature you've objected to several government strategies or projects - the Valletta project, the St John's Co-Cathedral museum, you suggested towing immigrants back to Libya, you were opposed to the nomination the current President...

I am echoing what my constituents are saying. I have every faith and respect for George Abela, but I felt we should not have a Labour candidate. I feel we should concentrate on other more urgent matters rather than build a new Parliament in Valletta, when there are other priorities, and when our fortifications are crumbling. Our detention camps for immigrants are a source of embarrassment and we are contributing to considerable loss of life at sea. I could never accept any project when I had geological proof from experts that excavations could have ruined St John's.

Do you blame some exponents who are describing you a loose cannon?

Certain people are describing me a loose cannon because it is in their sectoral interests to say so. The Prime Minister doesn't consider me to be a loose cannon. He allows me to air my views openly, the way Eddie Fenech Adami did. I have no ulterior motives and I don't have any political aspirations beyond being a faithful and conscientious party member.

Are you still completely loyal to the PN?

Completely.

Despite the claims you made that you were attacked by some of the PN's main exponents?

My supporters and my constituents supported me through thick and thin and that's what makes me a Nationalist.

John Dalli was reintegrated into the heart of the party after he was cleared of accusations in his regard. Are you expecting the same treatment?

For a number of years, Mr Dalli experienced the same internal attacks I did. I don't expect anything. I'm happy being a PN foot soldier, but I'm ready to serve in any position given to me. I will stand by my right to raise any issues that should be raised.

What do you think of the PN at this point in time?

I will remain a PN activist till my dying day but I don't think we've ever been at such a low point. Morale is low. It's not fun for your average Nationalist to receive the thrashing it received at the last European Parliament election.

Do you think stories like Mistra could have contributed to it?

Definitely not in the EP election. The Mistra story was actually used in the general election to help the PN win.

Could the dissent among backbenchers be leading to the party being less popular?

Do you think that Joe Public voted against the government because of its backbenchers?

It could be if they believe the government isn't really stable with people like Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando on the backbench.

I'm sure that's not an issue. People voted against the government because of some high-handed decisions.

Like what?

The water and electricity bills - spectacularly so. The Times reports today (Friday) that we're putting the country through another water and electricity hike when the country is in recession. The Prime Minister and minister in charge of Enemalta declared we seriously mishandled the issue last November, so why are we doing it again?

We've invested in a multi-million euro smart meter project for Enemalta. The money is going to be partly financed by the tariff hikes.

Was this the opportune moment to go for this investment? I wouldn't buy a jet plane if that means I can't afford to send my children to school. Someone's got his priorities wrong. Are we going to make the same mistakes? When MPs speak out it's because they're sorry to see the state the party's been reduced to. Some of the social partners who turned against us last year were the same ones who helped us in the EU cause. Are they disgruntled?

With this disgruntlement, with these 'ill-conceived' decisions, considering the PN got a thrashing in the last MEP elections, can you see your party winning the next election?

If we persist in not acknowledging the fact that we are going to bring some people to their knees, if we appear to be so detached that we don't realise the hurt some families are feeling, we will definitely get a thrashing in the next general election - and I hope that won't be the case.

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