Lawyer demands Malta certificate for migrant’s boy born at sea

Raymond Sammut

Oct 30th 2009, 13:24

@ Denis Catania

I do not think a Maltese birth certificate is warranted by location. It may have been the case when births were registered with churches. A birth is to be registered with the appropriate governmental agency. The child was not born of a Maltese mother and arrived from a Russian registered ship. Malta only offered to assist on a humanitarian basis, and hence is not the appropriate agency. In my view, Ms Hatra Chama should be taking her litigation elsewhere because a great majority of the Maltese people have truly had enough, and rightly so. Iz-zejjed kollu zejjed.

@ A Cassar If you have a comment to make go right ahead without having to insult people. Just who do you think you are?

Raymond Sammut

Oct 30th 2009, 10:58

@ A Cassar -- "Somalia does not exist politically and constitutionally whether you say it or not." Whether I say it or not is not at your discretion Mr A. Cassar. So I shall go ahead and say it so long as the editor allows me to do so.

The Republic of Somalia exists whether you like to believe it or not Mr A. Cassar. It currently has a transitional government which "...expanded its parliament to include the opposition and elected Sheikh Ahmed as its new president on January 31, 2009. Sheikh Ahmed then appointed Omar Abdirashid Ali Sharmarke, the son of slain former President Abdirashid Ali Sharmarke, as the nation's new Prime Minister." (Wiki)

For you to claim that a republic with its own Parliament and Prime Minister does not issue birth certificates to children born to a native Somali woman, the same as the Maltese government would do likewise for Maltese babies, is simply an outright perversion of truth. Why are you making unsubstantiated claims Mr A. Cassar?

lgalea

Oct 30th 2009, 10:02

A Cassar
You are so blinded that you do not even see what is behind their claim.

As for whether Somalis exists or not, it is for US to say not the UN because it is US in Malta who are lumping the illegal immigrats and not the UN at its HQ in New York or Geneva. Have a look at this http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20091029/tod-somali-centenarian-weds-17-year-old-7f81b96.html
Somali centenarian weds 17-year-old
Is this what you want for us and our childrens' future?
NO WAY CASSAR WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

Denis Catania

Oct 30th 2009, 10:02

A Cassar: Why should we give him a Maltese birth certificate ? Where was he born ? Get your head out of the sand. I don't care what color he is. If the baby is not born in Malta. That baby doesn't deserve a Maltese birth certificate. One thing that should happen for the sake of that baby is to arrest the person who put him in danger on the high seas leaving SAFE Libya. This lawyer should be found in contempt for filing such a case.

A Cassar

Oct 30th 2009, 09:40

All they are asking is for a birth certificate NOTHING more!!!! The racist intolerance is incredible!!!

@Raymond Sammut
Somalia does not exist politically and constitutionally whether you say it or not. It is not for you to decide but for the UN. And yes, people still get married over there. But it doesn't mean that there is some authourity handing out birth certificates!!!

C Cassar

Oct 30th 2009, 09:24

@ George Caruana

except these people wearing Nike shoes and contacting their relatives at Marsa and Hal Far from their mobile phones aren't being as persecuted as one would like to think.

Skin colour has absolutely zero to do with the subject.

These people are cunningly mastering an invasion and we are stupid enough to not only let it happen, but also help them out.

Mark Dalli

Oct 30th 2009, 08:36

COURT SHOULD SAY "NO" TO SEND A MESSAGE TO ALL THE REST THAT WILL FOLLOW

Raymond Sammut

Oct 30th 2009, 02:23

George Caruana -- "Of course Somalia exists dear I. Galea, but only geographically, and not politically neither institutionally nor constitutionally. ..." This is so very untrue. Incidentally, the BBC currently reports a most extraordinary institutional marriage that has just taken place in Somalia. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/africa/8331136.stm) Religion and mores aside, it is in my view an example of human frailty and endurance. Mr George Caruana, could you please show more courtesy and stop making outrageous claims.

And your use of the Jewish WWII tragedy to promote your own agenda is most deplorable. It should suffice to mention here that it was Heinrich Himmler, a pious Roman Catholic born in Munich on 7 October 1900 who lured Jews to Auschwitz. It was the Communist Red Army on January 27, 1945 who freed the survivors found at the Auschwitz camp. If you have a conscience to clear, Mr George Caruana, please try and not do it on the back of the Maltese tax-payer. If you want to help people, as you claim to be doing, then go and do it out of your own resources.

Raymond Sammut

Oct 30th 2009, 00:26

@ George Caruana -- "Helping out these people costs us nothing, in comparison..." This is only your opinion and for which you claim no credentials. What the real cost is to the nation's budget is a justifiable concern to the tax-payer. No-one have the right to place themselves in a position to help from resources that do not belong to them. It is truly an arrogant and an unacceptable position for anyone to assume.

T.gauci

Oct 29th 2009, 20:09

Each immigrant cost Malta 20€ or something everyday plus the social benefits they are getting: free health care, free education, free clothing, free mobiles and welfare. i am sure this is far from insignificant to the tax payer. let the Somalis fight for their freedom instead of lumping their problems on our country. the most "insignificant" thing here are your comments

Phil Humphries

Oct 29th 2009, 17:41

Even if this child was born in Maltese territorial waters, does that mean it is Maltese ?
If my mother had given birth to me whilst on vacation in Geneva ( legally or otherwise ) would that make me Swiss ? - I don't think so !

Call me cynical, but It doesn't take a Human Rights lawyer to figure out why this woman is so keen to have one of her children recognised as an EU citizen, nor why she set off on her journey in a pregnant condition.

George Caruana

Oct 29th 2009, 16:52

@ Raymond Sammut: Helping out these people costs us nothing, in comparison to the annual budget of the Maltese State. An insignificant amount. However, if it was’nt a marginal cost, for what else would paying taxes be justified??

George Caruana

Oct 29th 2009, 16:43

@ C Cassar: If I were persecuted by the state, risking my life, being hunted down because I were black, or a political dissenter, or live in a place where walking in the street courd mean shot down by a rifle or my hands chopped down for helping others, you would leave me in the street?? Or it depends if I were black or blonde with blue eyes??

George Caruana

Oct 29th 2009, 16:38

Of course Somalia exists dear I. Galea, but only geographically, and not politically neither institutionally nor constitutionally. Germany was much more of a state during 30's and 40's. This did not keep the Danish, Dutch, and others from hiding the Jews from persecution.

Eric Soames

Oct 29th 2009, 16:05

I shudder at the attitude of the 'let 'em in at all cost' brigade and their self-righteous holier than thou stance. They would foist their own misguided consciences on all and sundry blissfully ignoring the reality of future repercussions.

louise vella

Oct 29th 2009, 15:12

“A lawyer representing a Somali woman who gave birth on a boat three days before reaching Malta is calling for the child to be given a Maltese birth certificate.”

Maltese nationality is not for sale and is not something one gives as charity.

“Lawyer Tonio Azzopardi exhibited a birth certificate of a Maltese child born in Australian territorial waters but registered in Malta.”

So a Somali child born (perhaps!) in Maltese territorial waters (but who knows and who can prove it?), three days before arriving in Malta, must be registered in Somalia.

“As yet, Ms Chama’s child does not have a formal identity, status and citizenship… Ms Chama is married …”

What is the nationality of Ms Chama’s husband? Their child can have the citizenship of Somalia (probably the country of both parents) or France (where she is now).

Raymond Sammut

Oct 29th 2009, 14:26

@ Tony Caruana

Your question is clearly unwarranted. Everyone is entitled to bring their case forward so it can be heard, regardless of their ability to pay. Payment is a personal matter between the parties concerned. These are only basics, Mr Caruana.

Joseph Ellis

Oct 29th 2009, 14:21

@ Tony Caruana.

Why should that bother you ? What should bother you is the attitude (I would dare say illegal besides being degrading and inhumane) of the Maltese authorities who refuse to register the child. There should not be a law for some (the Maltese) and another law for others (the non-Maltese).

lgalea

Oct 29th 2009, 14:19

Tony Caruana
The case is being presented by the Emigrants (should be Illegal Immmigrants) Commission paid for through our taxes.

C Cassar

Oct 29th 2009, 13:41

@ George Caruana

If I show up on your doorstep, uninvited, would you let me in, feed me, clothe me, and financially support me unconditionally? Would you register me as being your long-lost son, therefore making me legally your own?

If not, shame on you!

Ps. Please leave illogical religious arguments out of this.

Tony Caruana

Oct 29th 2009, 12:14

And where did this Somali women get the money to pay the lawyer from ?

Raymond Sammut

Oct 29th 2009, 11:56

@ George Caruana

When a Maltese birth certificate is granted to a person, that person can potentially end up becoming a liability to the Maltese state, whereby the Maltese tax-payer foots the bill. Are you taking to liberty and speak on behalf of all Maltese tax-payers, Mr Caruana?

lgalea

Oct 29th 2009, 11:45

d. borg They do not have a right to citizenship, but if you examine carefully what is being said that is what is being proposed in this case with all the implications that I have exposed.

Ramon Casha The answer is no. Registration does not mean citizenship, but that is what is being promoted by the Emigrants Commission.

George Caruana
Somalia does exist. The fact that they have problems does not entitle them to be registered in Malta. The only right they have is to be registered back in Somalia. If she was in danger, why did she leave her husband and her other children in Somalia? Why didn't they all get out together? The plot is easy to see. She came here intending to give birth here and then her husband and the rest of the family be united with her on the basis of the unity of the family. Some have been taken in by this strategy, but many others have not. The shame is on you for defending illegalities not on us and stop using religion because it has long lost its appeal.

Cilia Debono Emanuel

Oct 29th 2009, 11:31

The child is a human person and - with due respect to human dignity-, it must be registered . It cannot be left unregistered as if it does not have an identity. Is it not legally possible for the Public Registry to issue the child with a special certificate to show that it had been born at sea. The question of citizenship rights should be dealt with independently.

Ramon Casha

Oct 29th 2009, 11:15

If the baby was born in Maltese territorial waters, then to all intents and purposes that baby was born in Malta. If the ship was in international waters, then the baby is assumed to have been born in the country of that ship's flag. So then the question is, does the country the baby was born in grant citizenship to all babies born within its territory.

George Caruana

Oct 29th 2009, 11:01

@Robert Cassar, because the Somalia state does not exist. And the latest hobby is persecuting Chirstians to either expel or kill, depending which is more convenient or cheaper. The fact that this matter ended in court is a mockery of what we like to call Christian or Maltese or European values. Shame on us!!!

Joe Borg

Oct 29th 2009, 10:55

So If I go with a yacht in American territorial waters with my pregnant wife and give birth to a kid, automatically I'll be given American citizenship? Thats an opportunity for big business, but the Americans will not fall for it or let it pass easily. I'll be arrested and tried for human trafficking! And this in the leader of the democratic world!

d. borg

Oct 29th 2009, 10:48

I was under the impression that children of illegal immigrants who are born in Malta are not entitled to Maltese citizenship. So if this child was born at sea she definitely cannot have a Maltese birth certificate. Besides her parents are not Maltese. Let us be clear and careful about these things.

lgalea

Oct 29th 2009, 10:17

(2)
That is the real reason which is as clear as can be for all those who want to see things as they really are and why not a single illegal immigrant must be allowed to remain in Malta but all must be expelled.

As for the case referred to of a Maltese child born in Australian territorial waters but registered in Malta it enforces the argument that the child should be registered in her mothers country, Somalia and not in Malta. The Maltese child was registered in Malta due to her Maltese parents nationality links.

This case has been presented and pursued by the Emigrants Commission which is doing a GREAT DISSERVICE to Malta and Maltese citizens with its interference in our way of life and with its imposition of illegal immigrants who are living like leeches on our taxes while stealing work from Maltese workers and bringing their tribal warfare with them in Malta.

lgalea

Oct 29th 2009, 10:14

The illegal immigrant's child has NO right to be registered in Malta. First of all her mother was traveling illegally on a boat not registered in Malta, she was born on a ship which was not registered in Malta but in Russia, none of her parents are Maltese and therefore she has NO right to be registered in Malta. The most she can do is be registered in Russia since the ship on which she was born was registered in Russia.

Things are also being confused. Apart from the fact t hat she does NOT have a right to be registered in Malta, it is already being put forward that this registration is being pursued so that she will have a formal identity, status and citizenship.

NO WAY. NONE OF HER PARENTS ARE MALTESE AND SHE CANNOT HAVE MALTESE CITIZENSHIP.

This means that they want her to have Maltese citizenship so that we will have to lump her and all her family and maintain them on our social services because a citizen cannot expelled or not allowed to return to his country and because of the unity of the family to live with her.

Phil Humphries

Oct 29th 2009, 10:07

How, by any rational logic, can this woman's child be anything other than a Somali ? Just because a cat has kittens in a kipper box doesn't make the kittens kippers.

I would be interested to know who pays the illegal immigrants' legal services in these so-called 'human rights' cases. Does anyone know, or is this yet another cost borne by the tax-payer ?

Christopher Pollard

Oct 29th 2009, 10:04

I must admit to complete ignorance about this and perhaps someone can clarify it for us all. Does a Maltese birth certificate do anything other than register the fact that a birth has taken place? In other words does it bestow any rights of any sort on the child? This seems to be the nub of the issue.
Thanks very much.

C Cassar

Oct 29th 2009, 09:49

Right

give this boy Maltese citizenship and let the floodgates open by setting a precedent and sending a clear message that if you want your son to enjoy a European life, you can give birth on a boat on the way to Malta and we'll take care of the rest for you.

Go home!

GOVERNMENT DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS!

Robert Cassar

Oct 29th 2009, 09:48

O my God..what is wrong in having a Somali citizenship ??

colin stanley

Oct 29th 2009, 09:24

There is a difference between the two,one child was born to Maltese parents, and the other was born to Somali parents, So one has a right for Maltese registration, where as the other is not Maltese . as far as I know, you are what your parents are. I was born in Malta,my mother Maltese, my father english, when I turned eighteen, I had to denounce my english citezenship, to be allowed to stay here and work. So what's different now.

M Mallia

Oct 29th 2009, 09:09

Excuse my ignorance, but could not the "Maltese" child have been registered in Malta because the parents were Maltese? If that is the case, then Dr Azzopardi does not have much of a leg to stand on, because it looks like he himself is insinuating that the child in question shoould be registered in her mother's country of birth - if that is at all possible, that is.