Tunnel leak 'not a danger'

Victor Caruana

Oct 3rd 2009, 21:35

"according to the authorities and a leading architect". "Architects from......". "An architect contacted .... ". "a structural engineer...". Is this OMERTA"?
A Big laugh! a comment says "if the source of the leak was not identified by the end of October" that's 28 days from now Are the authorities on Vacation????

Anthony Debono

Oct 3rd 2009, 17:07

@george farrugia
WSC's 'water taster' is on vacation leave. ;-))) LOL

george farrugia

Oct 3rd 2009, 16:53

According to this article, the Water Services Corporation has yet to identify whether the seepage is drainage water or fresh water.....how long does it take to do this. Normally a few droplets next to one's nose would be enough... or are we going to get consultants to use their nose and send us the bill. If it is pure water, can the WSC tell us what the cost is of so many thousands of litres of expensive fresh water going to waste....is this the same WSC that preaches to us that water is precious and we should do all we can to save it. Where the WSC board to really believe what they preach, I expect to see them under the tunnel collecting the water in buckets until their men can get the problem sorted out.

Mariella Galea

Oct 3rd 2009, 14:01

@Albert Bezzina

There are no rivers Near the Tunnels, and the tunnel was closed for a very short time.

I smell a bid dead rat... usually these things take time to assess and in Malta we have a tendency to go for consultants to consult consultants... I passed several times this week once the water was a steady flow, the second time it was like a waterfall and it startled me.

I could have stopped immediately or swerved... and like me hundreds of other drivers with their families and friends

Therefore, YES the Tunnel IS A DANGER.

@C.Camilleri

Ghalhekk ma waqqatlix il-Gallarrija u kisritli il-Karozza.

E. Formosa

Oct 3rd 2009, 07:39

I'm sorry, but YES it is a DANGER to motorists. Twice the car next to me swerved dangerously when the surprised driver saw the water gushing down. What would have happened if it was a motorcycle or bicycle?

You do not have to be a 'leading architect' to think of that!

robert micallef

Oct 2nd 2009, 21:45

not sure but if it leaks there is no build up of pressure which could have serious consequenses. however a sort of fake ceiling can be installed and the water will fall on the sides instead of on peoples heads.

Albert Bezzina

Oct 2nd 2009, 19:57

Angelo Muscat go to http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-41940676.html in 2001. MELBOURNE, Feb 19 AAP - Melbourne's new Burnley Tunnel sprang a leak today, prompting the indefinite closure of the recently opened 3.6km stretch of the city's $2 billion CityLink tollway. The leak had occurred about halfway along the tunnel on the right-hand side near the Swan Street shaft about 8.30am, tollway owner, Transurban, said. The Burnley Tunnel runs parallel to the Yarra River, 300m away. Transurban initially closed one lane of traffic after the leak was discovered, but then decided to close the whole tunnel to allow the cause to be investigated, company secretary Geoff ... THE WAY WAS CLOSED OFF UNTILL IT WAS MADE SURE THAT THERE WAS NO ´GREAT DANGER:

angelo muscat

Oct 2nd 2009, 18:57

I was in AUSTRALIA eight years ago, and i was there lately and the leak in the tunnel under the YARRA RIVER is still there,so why is all this fuss.

Mark Spiteri

Oct 2nd 2009, 13:19

What a shame !!! this is a huge danger esp to motorcyclists

DUSTY WILLIAM

Oct 2nd 2009, 11:02

C CAMILLERI

DIN MINN GHANDEK QED NISMAHHA L-EWWEL DARBA HABIB. MHUX SE NMERIK TA IZDA HEKK NAFA JIEN.

FORSI FLAKED IS SADID LI HEMM HEMM FUQ MIN JISTA JGHID, NAHSEB HADD MA JAF X'HEMM GOL KONKOS.

C. Camilleri

Oct 2nd 2009, 08:46

@ william dusty

Xibka imsadda gol konkos ma tamilx hsara, anzi tghid biex il konkos jaqbad izjed max-xibka. Tant hu hekk, li gieli tara bini gdid apposta jaghmlulu reinforcement imsaddad.... l aqwa li ma ikunx 'flaked' is sadid.

Joseph Vella

Oct 2nd 2009, 07:48

Yet the ADT (Goverment) has the cheek to charge me nearly €1500.00 yearly for my road licence (tax).

Anthony Debono

Oct 1st 2009, 20:42

@All cabrio owners
You are now discriminated as you cannot use your vehicle in open mode throughout your drive.
You have to program your satellite navigator voice synthesiser to remind you to close your top!! Or maybe fit tunnel sensors automatically close your tops and avoiding a cold shower!!

Or better still, don't drive through tunnels.

@the authorities concerned
What about the chemicals inside the water falling on your car? Is it acidic, or what? Have samples been taken and published?

"...a structural engineer was surveying the reinforced concrete tunnel lining to determine whether any damage had been caused as a result of the water ingress and recommend any necessary repairs" Great! If the water is coming from inside the tunnel, then surely there must be a crack in the concrete lining = DAMAGE! Or shall we get some foreign experts as well for their advice?

A water catchment system will only divert the flow of water. The damage is STILL there!!

@All
Actually anyone can take a sample and send it to a lab for chemical breakdown results.

I cancelled my cabrio order. Going for a normal closed top car instead. LOL

Albert Bezzina

Oct 1st 2009, 20:30

Mr Torpiano and the ADT assume that the gushing torrent (seepage is too mild a word) would not take a driver in the tunnel unawares which could elicit an errant manoeuvre leading to an accident; would assume that the water in the tunnel would not cause problems with breaking distances; would assume that apart the expense from water damage caused by water falling into an open convertible they do not consider the possibility that an occupant travelling at the stipulated 60km/h being hit in the head or face by the column of water can lead to serious neck injuries as well an a disorienting effect on a driver causing errant vehicle control.
The build up of any water at the top could signify that the sides of the tunnel are already water logged on their external surface with tons of pressure from water logged earth. This would cause pressure to be exerted inwards on either side of the tunnel so the failure could come from the sides and not from the top which is resistant only to direct pressure in a vertical vector. The ADT should carry out explorative holes at the sides of the tunnel in line with leak.

David Schiavone

Oct 1st 2009, 20:08

I lived in St.Venera for 15 years near Apap Institute. It has an enormous well and the tunnel is right underneath. Could the water be coming from there?

Gerard Cassar

Oct 1st 2009, 19:07

Dr. Torpiano commented on the basis of personal experience. Saying no immediate danger is based on his assumption of how things ought to have been carried out. I do not think he was in charge of the project so he cannot vouch for others.
This applies to the best architect as well as to the worst.
Of course it would have been bad to alarm the public. But please don't vouch for third persons in such matters. Nature itself could do tricks.. Be careful to avoid all responsibility.

Chris Spiteri

Oct 1st 2009, 17:58

Dear ADT,

By any chance, have you noticed a nice big hole just where the water used to come down? I think you better act now no and make sure that this particular area is fixed and safe, cause we, as motorists, really deserve good roads, which unfortunately in Malta it is quite something impossible! I think you, as ADT are more busy with all the speeding fines that are happening just a few metres further up, in that case you act without delay to send the photos and information of the traffic controvention to the motorist.

Hope that this area becomes safe once again!!

alfred zammit

Oct 1st 2009, 17:44

Its true that this should not be taken lightly but we should not grab opportunity to turn this into a political issue.Profs Torpiano is one of the best ,if not the best architects we have in Malta andI am sure that he knows what he is saying.He was probably refering to the danger of collapse etc not to the obvious danger of skidding etc.We are all ready to complain but not to give suggestions etc.Lets give the authorities the time to solve this problem.

Christian Sciberras

Oct 1st 2009, 17:38

"The spokesman said if the source of the leak was not identified by the end of October, authorities would consider attaching a water catchment system to divert the leak to drainage channels running along the tunnel's sides. This was being looked into by the directorate."

Wasn't they supposed to do sucha thing in the first place? There's practically no single working water drainage system as far as I can see in Malta.
Getting a bit out of topic, why exactly aren't there any working drainage systems, apart the conventional human waste drainage system?

Regards,
Christian Sciberras.

Paul vassallo

Oct 1st 2009, 16:53

Just viewed the video of Santa Venera tunnel .I came to the conclusion that is was dug by some Big Rats and it is not save to be used by humans.

lawrence cachia

Oct 1st 2009, 16:53

please please . is that a standard of a EU tunnel . i stop and let others say .. and mind you all this goes to all our tunnels please clean and make then EU/// safer .

jfarrugia

Oct 1st 2009, 16:48

The water seems to have stopped but there's a huge hole were it poured down from, but i guess someone will come along with a bag of tarmac and compress it with his foot.
How about closing them every nite for a month and painting them and giving them a proper maintence ehh.

Edward Zammit

Oct 1st 2009, 16:20

Not a danger my foot !!!! Anyone knows how caves are sculpted in nature ?! What about the sink holes that underground springs make ??

THIS IS INCOMPETENCE AT IT'S BEST.

John Pisani

Oct 1st 2009, 16:11

@ Victor Saliba "enough inciting the forces of law and order and get on with your work". Who is inciting the FORCES OF THE LAW? Hallina Vic!!!!!

apgrech

Oct 1st 2009, 15:54

Moral of the story which the Maltese government should learn is: When you do something, do it right from the beginning.

A Brincat

Oct 1st 2009, 14:50

I had raised a concern over a year ago on the emergency services on 112 (records should be available) indicating that the roof could collapse due to seeping water (since water erodes). The tunnel was never closed or any warning issued.

We all hope that nothing tragic occurs. Good luck 112.

John Spiteri

Oct 1st 2009, 14:42

I think it is Victor Saliba who should shut up. Is this not an atrocity against people using the tunnel?

Claire Busuttil

Oct 1st 2009, 13:58

Shame on the concerned authorities, for such a thing!!

Victor Saliba

Oct 1st 2009, 13:51

@John Pisani - I think you forgot the time when Malta was the true 'wonder' for atrocities committed against the Maltese people and you were one of those who approved such attrocities. So enough said, enough inciting the forces of law and order and get on with your work.

w.scicluna

Oct 1st 2009, 13:43

No danger? I just saw the video.....NO RESPECT thats what it is! So if I skid when driving my motorcycle or scooter, who is responsible????? I bet it would be just another case of ''Issa li hemm hemm siehbi. Hu pacenzja!''

James Green

Oct 1st 2009, 13:39

Those tunnels are filthy, ill lit during the daytime, potholed and now seeping large quantities of water.

Why is it that motorcyclists always get the wrong end of the stick. Besides the skid aspect, getting drenched with water of unknown origin directly or by a passing car is certainly not a pleasant experience.

No excuses, that leak or rather what is now a flood must be repaired ASAP before somebody gets killed.

Maybe they should auction on eBay the speed cameras at the tunnel ends and use the funds to make the necessary repairs.

I take it that neither King Juan Carlos nor Pope Benedict will be using this tunnel.

jmicallef

Oct 1st 2009, 13:37

What kind of joke is this press release or news-piece?

No danger? Do these people know what it means trying to brake the car with one wheel on dry ground and the other on wet, slippery ground?

And how come they cannot determine the origin? Surely we are equipped with proper laboratories to carry out the necessary tests.

If the tunnel is made of reinforced concrete - that means there should be metal netting (xibka tal-konkos) and I am sure that this wont be too happy with the water. So there you have an expensive repair to budget for, Minister Borg.

As far as I am concerned , this is being tackled in a very amateurish manner.

Let's hope it wont be a case of adding injury to insult, if you do not mind me adulterating this common saying.

Sean Formosa

Oct 1st 2009, 13:28

Driving at 'Tal-Barrani' or HalFar rd at more than 60km/hr is dangerous. Obviously with this danger people at ADT could not sleep at night so they put speed cameras. Water seeping out in the middle of the tunnel is obviously not dangerous unless there is someone to blame or fine.

Lawrence Mifsud

Oct 1st 2009, 13:24

Do we need to call in an oil exploration drilling company to drill a hole or two, to assess the ground condition? I am sure we can do it on our own, with available resources. Then why not get on with it immediately?

neville debattista

Oct 1st 2009, 13:17

Not a danger my.... Slipperry roads will make you and your car fly sky high.

Ray Mangion

Oct 1st 2009, 12:47

I could not believe what I was reading. " there is no immediate danger.... " What on earth is going on? A tunnel badly lit, the road is appalling and now with the waterfall causing even more cavities. Don`t these so called professionals realise that what the water is doing to the road, is happening above all the way from where the water seeps out? Isn`t it logic that where there is water movement, the earth becomes insecure and weak. Hasn`t anyone been watching what happens when too much water comes down? Mud slides causing huge disaster, killing many people in its path. This water is no different. Perhaps ADT will wait until the tunnet roof caves in on innocent drivers; perhaps then they will do something about it. Wake up Malta. Can the top people never get things right until lives are lost?

Daniel Vella - Touring Club Malta

Oct 1st 2009, 12:44

Perhaps "safe" does not include a situation where a bowser load of petrol is inside the tunnel and needs to perform an emergency braking. Imagine the disaster!!!! The bowser overturning letting out gallons of petrol inside the tunnel. Apart from that I must add that even if there was no leakage, our tunnels or not safe just the same, due to the amount of carbon deposits on their walls. Do authorities know that these deposits can propagate fire in case of an accident? Talking about geometry - vaulted tunnels should have crash barriers along their sides to avoid cars catching the curbs and overturning due to wall structure - it is not the first time we witnessed such accidents!

Paul Barrett

Oct 1st 2009, 12:37

@ Joe Borg
"drain it into the road drainage system "
What road drainage system - you mean like the drainage system on the lower part of the Salina/Naxxar road where the "new built" road drains all the run off water down onto the Coastroad bringing a mass of rocks and gravel with it.
Very few roads in Malta have the correct camber (both for driving and water run off) and not many have any proper drainage.
Whilst banging on about drainage - the drain on the bend by the Coastline Hotel has once again been filled in (possibly by over enthusiastic gardeners) therefore the water which was supposed to drain away on this well placed and large drain accumulates in a deep and large puddle often causing vehicles to move over the central line (on a blind bend) into oncoming traffic. If anyone is in contact with whoever is responsible for clearing this drain (Coastline Hotel or Roads Department), it really does need fixing and whoever is responsible for the gardening, instructed to ensure that garden and other rubbish is not shoved into the drain.

Gerard Cassar

Oct 1st 2009, 12:26

...there is no immediate concern for the public. That is the reaction of the authorities.
No immediate concern. The emphasis is on the word immediate.
When in the "long run" will there be concern. Who is going to determine the lapse of time from immediate to actual. How will it be determined, by the fall of the roof?
A deep examination should be carred out especially now that a danger is not completly out of question even if the tunnel has to be closed . Some have surely travelled under tunnels abroad, has any one met with seeping water? Some times even rivers pass above a tunnel.
Precaution is better than cure.

S. Camilleri

Oct 1st 2009, 12:23

I have great respect for Prof. Torpiano as an architect. However did he base his 'diagnosis' on there not being 'IMMEDIATE' danger on an investigation other than a visual check? Were the steel reinforcements checked out? Are they being corroded. How is he sure that the water coming out is all the water that there is? What is his definition of 'IMMEDIATE'? How about the damage to the road in the barely lit tunnel?
Finally, why are the authorities only 'considering' a water catchment system until this is resolved properly .

Jeremy Spiteri

Oct 1st 2009, 12:20

What about driving in a convertible, into a tunnel with low light, and suddenly you get soaked?? .... I almost crashed because of that leak, twice!
... no danger ?!?!

JOHN PISANI

Oct 1st 2009, 11:07

Noel Grixti D'Amato - "Can we apply to be one of the seven wonders?!?!?!?! :):):)"

Noel my friend.... Malta HAS been for the last 20 years and still is A WONDER. I wonder why??? NO danger my......foot.

J Farrugia

Oct 1st 2009, 10:57

Dont give us 'balloonies'. The authorities especially ADT had better move its bottom line to remedy the situation. For me this is truly dangerous AND ALL THIS WATER SEEPING INSIDE THE TUNNEL is not a good sign. This is an accident waiting to happen. and no architect will put our minds at rest unless this tunnel is once more covered by another concrete layer while channelling the water to another drain and finding the source of this water fall.

E.Muscat

Oct 1st 2009, 10:54

The water should be analysed chemically:if it is fresh water it probably is a burst water pipe,if it foul it probably drain water both of which should be within the capability of WSC to find and repair:problem solved;any more national emergencies,a tsunami perhaps!

Deo Catania

Oct 1st 2009, 10:54

Pajjiz tal-misthija. Moqzizata bhal din ila snin ghaddejja imbaghad jigu 4 bravi jghidulna m'hemmx problema. possibli hadd ma kien kapaci jsib minn fejn qed jigi dan l-ilma??? dan ma bediex inixxi gimgha ilu imma qed nitkelmu fuq snin. Pajjiz rovina shiha. Il-flus ghad-dandin jintuzaw.

dusty william

Oct 1st 2009, 10:47

EHE U X GARANZIJA GHANDNA LI IX -XIBKA TA GOL KONKOS M'IJIEX IMSADDA U MA JIXPAKKAX IL KONKOS U JAGHMEL HERBA? GARANZIJI MHUX PAROLI BISS PLEASE.

joe borg

Oct 1st 2009, 10:46

This 'tunnel water fall' located in the middle of the roof & first few metres of a semi dark tunnel is a DRIVING HAZARD especially for convertible vechicles, NO BODY BOTHERED TO PUT A CAUTION SIGN AT LEAST at the time I drove under it! This article is the usual jazz that does not solve the immediate SNAG.....Why not install a gutter catchment underneath the leaking concrete seam,& drain it into the road drainage system !!!!!!!!

Noel Grixti D'Amato

Oct 1st 2009, 10:35

Can we apply to be one of the seven wonders?!?!?!?! :):):)

Jeremy Lanfranco

Oct 1st 2009, 10:18

Poses no danger?? Its like driving through a waterfall blindly if you are a motorcyclist!! And the problem is not only getting drenched!!

Peter Critien

Oct 1st 2009, 10:18

Very Well !!! NO danger so no solution??? What a joke does anyone expect this country yo be taken seriously. Fine because the 'experts' say in a few word the tunnels not going to fall then why bother fixing the problem just let the water drain because that's the best solution with no consideration whatsoever to motorists furthermore people driving motorbikes.
A real shame this has been going on for years now and still with the problem getting worse the authorities concerned have no intention of getting it fixed once and for all.
Now we simply have to sit and wait for an accident to take place, then maybe just maybe something will be done and it will obviosuly be a quick fix you know "patch work' like everything else in Malta.
DISGRACE !!!

Christian Fenech

Oct 1st 2009, 10:12

"An architect contacted by The Times also said the leak should not pose a danger to motorists."

There is no danger in the building architecture but there are other dangers...

Even if you are driving a car... changing from dry to wet road surface like that is a risk let alone when driving a motorcycle!! This is not the first time this tunnel leaks (actually the leak NEVER STOPS!!! it only increases and decreases the amount of water)... and it`s the first time it is closed. Imagine driving a motorcycle and there is that water falling on you...

Mike Farrugia

Oct 1st 2009, 10:08

Yes. tell that to the bus load of tourists who were travelling in the upper deck of these double decker sight seeing buses which got stuck in traffic when they reached that point exacttly, a couple of days ago! They were not amused.

Reuben Buhagiar

Oct 1st 2009, 10:08

This is ridiculous. Rather than fixing the problems, these people are now trying to convince the public that they are not problems!

Last time I was passing through with my roof down I had to swerve at short notice after having noticed the water. This can easily cause an accident (not only because of swerving, but also because of the crap tarmac the authorities use to surface our roads which water makes very slippery). Besides, water will also seep through and create more of those spiteful potholes.

ADT please wake up! You are not going to manage fooling people any more.

As to the "leading architect", if all "leading architects" had to view things in this way, it is no wonder that Malta is in such a state!

C.Borg

Oct 1st 2009, 10:02

And what about the quarry that formed in the road surface due to the water dropping on the same spot for ages????

Chinese Torture is what our roads needed!!!

PTMM

Edwin Mifsud

Oct 1st 2009, 09:57

".....there is no "IMMEDIATE" concern for the public....."

".....the leak SHOULD not pose a danger....."

I like the way these two statements were made.

C A Camilleri

Oct 1st 2009, 09:55

So it is now official. It is ok to pass through a cascade of water when entering a tunnel added to a dimly lit environment, some potholes and usually poorly marked lanes. Who needs the Paris Dakar?