Update 3: Eritrean immigrants did not want to be rescued - AFM

teresa pace

Aug 24th 2009, 17:54

@ T Cilia Don't know about you...but I would try and find a decent place to live in and risk my life in the process if my homeland is anything but decent for my family.You should appreciate the fact that these people do go to such extremities as they have NO HOPE for a better life in their homeland. it's not like Malta and Hollywood by all means...us Maltese go to Hollywood just for a holiday as hard as it is life in Malta,we still live a decent life.These people have nil decent life in their homeland - don't know about you if you could stick it if you lived in their homeland but i sure wouldn't and would do as they do...

Teresa Pace

Aug 24th 2009, 13:01

@ Tapo Zapo

Dear Tapo Zapo, not all maltese have hate believe me. You cannot generalise. As for hateful christians, the ones who are hateful are not christians anyway. They may be christians but in name only and not at heart. Two contradictory words...hate and christians. 'Christians' means believers in Christ and true believers in Christ just don't have hatred in them. People must have hurt you alot to reason like that and my heart goes out to you.

colin stanley

Aug 23rd 2009, 22:52

I think that all the do gooders in Malta, for example, Graffiti, people who work for UNHCR, certain columists, TV presenters, etc. should help relieve the burdon on the goverment, the armed forces, and us Maltese. by adopting some of these illegals, and that them home to their family and look after them and pay for their upkeep. that way the will practice what they preach,

Topa Zapo

Aug 23rd 2009, 22:31

if they rather die than land in malta well what else is there to say? I left 40 yrs ago and not even 40 million bucks will make me go back! reading the maltese papers noticing it still in stoneage mentality 80 percent of malta!! i feel sorry for the immigrants landing there living with them hateful maltese christians!

T. Pace

Aug 23rd 2009, 10:41

@ Teresa Pace

You have taken for granted that the immigrants' account of events is factual and chosen to ignore the AFM's statements.

It would be interesting to learn how these 'poor' immigrants paid for the expensive dinghy and outboard motor as well as for their sojourn in Libya.

Since in their country of origin there are millions of really destitute persons who do need assistance, those who opt to try their fortunes in Europe must be better off.

It therefore appears that this is a case of "have money will travel".

On a final point it would be interesting to learn whether they guy who was taken off the boat on a stretcher has already made a full recovery.

Joe Xuereb

Aug 23rd 2009, 02:59

@ Teresa Pace. I said 'holier than thou'. I never said you were holy. But you do have a 'holier than thou' attitude. That is your business. You have obviously done your research. Admirable. Just make sure the source of information you consulted are not of the 'holier than thou' sort. 'Holier than thou' indoctrinators abound in Malta just in case you have not noticed. I have done a lot of research -common observation of human nature is what I call it - . Whether I apply this information or not is up to me using my common sense. Your comments are mostly questions, inane suggestions and half-baked statements. Very tentative. Methinks you could (not should, could - I am not a dictator) other sources for your information. You could end up helping these itinerants, many of whom are illegal, by default. Just a thought.

T Cilia

Aug 22nd 2009, 23:37

I honestly cannot understand some people.... for example Ms Teresa Pace... she says that these people have every right to be angry because they are disillusiond as they have spent their life savings to embark on this venture, which entails a very dangerous voyage and did not find the "paradise" they thought they would find!!!!! Can one please bear in mind that they are doing all this ILLEGALLY and most times risking the lives of their own children in doing so.... should we all now try a hand at entering Hollywood illegally.... it seems that they have a very luxurious life there!!!!!!!!

T.gauci

Aug 22nd 2009, 17:54

America and other European wealthy countries donated billions of money to educate and feed Africa but they are incapable to take care of themselves. we are not obligated to educate them and intervene in their clashes. it's up to them to start everything from scratch just like Europe and Asia did after world war 2.

Teresa Pace

Aug 22nd 2009, 16:49

@ T Gauci
In my opinion, these people are poor as in all...1. they do not know how to fight for their rights 2. They may be poor financially 3. Some may even be poor intellectually - nobody educated them(and I emphasize some and may). In my opinion governments should put pressure on their government to better the situation. America, a continent who likes to but into so many issues, where is she now? I stand to correction about America. But really, other countries should put pressure on their government and educate it for its people. Don't know why they choose Europe and not other countries.It could be it's all buisness...people give them false hopes to make money from them..to get them out of the country-who knows?Then they come to Europe and find most is illusion which is why they have much anger...they risked their lives for a disillusion...all their savings for disillusion.

T.gauci

Aug 22nd 2009, 16:31

@Teresa Pace

I am not generalizing you said these people are poor, poor because they don't know how to maintain stability and fight for their rights. they can be rich if they want to but, no they want to dump everything and choose to come here instead. why Europe why not rich and safe places like Saudi Arabia,South Africa,Tunisia,Libya,Egypt ?.

These people have no right to come here illegally.

Teresa Pace

Aug 22nd 2009, 15:35

@ T Gauci

Last time that I heard that in Malta there was drug trafficking...last time I heard there was stealing in Malta...last time I heard....was it you T Gauci by any chance? Or any other decent person? Or the majority of the maltese?No it's SOME people...CERTAIN people. It doesn't mean if certain people at their country did the hijacking and bought weapons it's all of the citizens over there. Could it be that that is why their homeland can never prosper because their government is involved in as such?Could it be that these people want to get away from as such and get a decent life?

Teresa Pace

Aug 22nd 2009, 15:23

@ Joe Xuereb

Believe me, if you knew me, with my faults I'm anything BUT holy. I also prefer being gullible and lack common sense then being the oppositie. The governments must get together to shake some sense into the government from where these people come.I intend to do some research from where these people came maybe you should do the same so that you understand their situation a bit better?

Joe Xuereb

Aug 22nd 2009, 14:59

@ Teresa Pace. Heartless. You said it. Others did not. If being naive means being gullible, it also means blackmailing yourself into a corner, all for the sake of false sentiments. Seemingly intelligent people do this blackmail thing all the time. Goodness knows how far they think this will get them. Oh well! as long as you all believe you are doing the right thing..............
Being holier than thou is all very well. But there come a point when common sense must prevail. Or else.

John Azzopardi

Aug 22nd 2009, 14:57

Unfortunately, there is no wake up call. Yes, it is a sad event when 75 people die and it could only be one as well, however, the world is too greedy and although few lift a finger, there is a lot to be done to address poverty in Africa and around the world due their corrupt governments, wars, etc. However, little Malta cannot keep on sustaining huge influx of illegal immigrants. Our little island of 122 sq miles with 420,000 people, cannot accomodate more illegals. Period. Let the other countries of the world to accept these people. I rather spend my money on the women and children in impoverish Africa, not those individuals who already have a safe haven in Libya and are just waiting to cross over to Europe. As for organization, they know what organization is, as we have seen in the organization taking place in uprising in our detention centers and open centers. People must help themselves in their own countries in order to make them better to make a better future for their families and children. They have to do itthemselves, otherwise it won't happen.

T.gauci

Aug 22nd 2009, 14:29

@teresa pace

last time i heard they are hijacking ships in Somalia, it's unbelievable how these poor people can afford weapons such as rocket launchers and machine guns. i hope you're not blaming us for the 75 deaths.

teresa pace

Aug 22nd 2009, 13:46

I rather be naive then hearthless. I rather be weak than thinking I'm so strong so righteous. We are talking about the people who had another 75 people with them who perished right?We are not talking about a comfortable yacht with all the accomodities for a comfortable journey but a dinghy am I right?We are talking about people who could have got so thirsty that they could have turned to drinking to sea water thus signing their own death warrent am I right?These are the people we are talking about...people like you and me, like your son and daughter...they are people.As for the person who commented that once Malta was poor but through the hard work....true but in Malta at least there was organisation.Is their organisation where they live?I do not want to go into debating Maltese government,but our government to certain extend helps people...do they get help where these people live?They are null..they are not considered...they do not exist for their government...better 75 less -dead.So unless there is some kind of wake up call amongst other governments throughout the world to shake their government, countries must help them by receiving them

T Cilia

Aug 22nd 2009, 13:15

Does anyone think that any of these migrants intend coming to our little rock surrounded by sea with not much prospect of a future?... their aim is Italy, to be able to get into all of Europe, because they think they are going to find Shan'gri-La... so the AFM report is very plausible! And let us all bear in mind that these people pay large sums of money to venture on their very dangerous voyage... doesn't that imply that perhaps alot of them, if not most, are not in the terrible situation they claim to be in their country? It's about time the whole of Europe, if not the world, gets together to seriously investigate the traffickers who are replenishing their pockets with no regard to human lives. This has become a problem bigger than anyone and some solution is mandatory, otherwise one day soon we are ALL going to regret putting the blame on each other and doing nothing serious about it!!!

John Azzopardi

Aug 22nd 2009, 13:13

Ms. Teresa Pace, you are so naive. We were born in Malta, but there were times where we were poor as well. However, with hard work by our forefathers, we established a stable nation. We do not want to have an instable Malta. As for our AFM, we should be behind them 100 %. People should be ashamed of themselves for criticizing our AFM who have limited resources and have done a tremondeous job of rescuing illegal immigrants in the past 8 years. Shame on you who criticize our AFM.

Joseph Cauchi

Aug 22nd 2009, 13:07

@ Teresa Pace, Emilia Caruana, etc…

I understand your concern but regretfully I do not concur.

Do you seriously believe every word this type of people say?

According to the AFM, these people were clean shaven and could walk properly!

Can you imagine this, after being twenty days at sea, cramped most of the time, living in the filth that is normally generated in these conditions, with no food and water and the continuous sea movement that makes any able seafarer sea-sick; and Goodness me!, these people could walk properly and did not even have any beards, not even a stubble, after twenty days?

Who am I suppose to believe, the AFM commander or these illegal immigrants?

We should no longer be naïve and “Twajba” and believe everything these types of people say.

Everything should be taken with a pinch of salt!

JC.

teresa pace

Aug 22nd 2009, 12:09

@ T Pace

Just thank the good Lord that you were born here and not where they were bor. How can you be so heartless against them...75 DIED do you get that 75 DIED. Did these people fabricate their death as well?

T Pace

Aug 22nd 2009, 09:15

This seems to be another of those fairy tales for which illegal immigrants have become renowned.

As regards their condition, having been sitting on a dinghy for a few hours would make anyone's legs cramped. As regards the comment made by the UNHCR spokesman that they are very thin, this us not an indication by itself that they are malnourished. If anything, the real persons in need that we see frequently on tv in their home countries have hanging bellies. I am certain that in a few days they would 'recover' as has been the case with the numerous arrivals in Malta and would be fit enough to start protesting about their full board arrangements.

C. Briffa

Aug 22nd 2009, 07:27

Kindly include in your comments that illegal immigrants are also those people from the east which come to Malta by plane as tourists and overstay in Malta.But beacuse these are most of them blonde no one mention them. You must visit one of the African countries to see if you would live there or flee away. With the difference that those coming from east they just want to have a better job. Most of them are employed in very well paid jobs not like the africans.

Emelia Caruana

Aug 22nd 2009, 00:53

This keeps on happening all over the world , tragic inhumane It sounds like the ITALIANS let them go to there death even started the DINGHY for them to help them drown on heavy dangerous high seas and the MALTESE came to there RESCUE ........Its so sad may they rest in peace the ones who drowned and the 3 that lived be given LOVE COMPASSION HUGS FOOD and A DECENT PLACE TO LIVE after the trauma they just experienced losing loved ones and friends in front of there eyes at sea AMEN

Joe Fenech

Aug 22nd 2009, 00:14

"But a spokesman for the AFM said that the five migrants were in apparent good health and in good spirits. The boat was in a good condition with its motor running. The immigrants refused to board the AFM patrol boat, not wanting to be rescued but to continue in a north westerly direction."

Why does Malta have to interfere all the time????

malcolm seychell

Aug 21st 2009, 22:16

Blame UNHCR and co.

they are the ones who agree that illegal immigrants can come to Europe.

If there is a common european policy that no illegal immigrant will be accepted in Europe these tragedies will finish.

Graham Crocker

Aug 21st 2009, 21:27

Claire Bonello, don't take notice of him. He's barking orders when he's the authority of nothing.

Denis Catania

Aug 21st 2009, 20:40

@Joseph Tonna: As long as people keep encouraging such dangerous crossings and condoning such crossings, it will happen again and again. It's sad but true. The saddest part is children are put on these boats against their will and are being used as tools by their parents and the traffickers.

victor pulis

Aug 21st 2009, 20:38

In order to prevent similar incidents from recurring in the future AFM patrol boats should carry a video camera to record any such encounters as proof of what goes on during the rescue/ assistance. The present case is the migrants' word against the Maltese soldiers' and guess who is going to be believed?

Joseph Mizzi

Aug 21st 2009, 20:09

The fact that the voyagers were committing an illegality (attempting to illegally reach a country other than their own) should have been arrested and brought over to Malta. The AFM has arresting powers identical to that of the police. It's as if the police apprehend a burglar in the commitment of the act, and letting him go simply because he preferred going home instead.

Joseph Cauchi

Aug 21st 2009, 19:47

According to the latest news update, I am baffled!

How can they be clean shaven if they say they have been twenty days at sea in those “horrible” conditions?

Should we always believe all the stories these people claim to be or should we take each with a pinch of salt?

JC.

Joseph Vella

Aug 21st 2009, 19:31

This is what Minister Carm Mifsud Bonnici meant, when he told UNHCR that are playing Russian roulette with these poor immigrants.

A Cassar

Aug 21st 2009, 19:10

May I point out that UNHCR does not own Libya. It cannot decide to set up camp there and do whatever it wants. The concept of UNHCR is that refugees should be assisted at the nearest point to their country...i.e. in the case of Somalis and Sudanese NOT Malta! Unfortunately the state of African politics and economics makes this a difficult task. European countries are pushing for Libya to accept its responsibilities....but this is an uphill struggle. In the meantime UNHCR does all it can for refugees anywhere in the world, be it in the Congo or Sudan, or Malta.

David portelli

Aug 21st 2009, 18:52

I can't understand why the Traffickers have never been caught misteriously? We can't handle all the African Problems and everyone should agree.If they want to go to Italy we should allow them cause only they repatriate them we don't and they remain here till only God knows when.

Gerard Cassar

Aug 21st 2009, 17:36

Writers condemn those who in their opinion ought to have helped, and hardly a word against those who provided the equpment and fuel and lead them to their death.
It is the word community who must be condemned for doing or appear to be doing nothing against human trafickers. Why the International community(UNO) does not enter into an agreement with Libya to let it deploy its forces against these traffickers. Track them, find them, bring them in front of a court of justice, find them guilty of human traficking in the past in the present and planning for tomorrow, and give them the punishment they deserve.
Who knows whether Interpol could not interfer positivly and put an end to thiskillink.

CLIFFORD VELLA

Aug 21st 2009, 17:22

It is impossible the issue of 20 days without any help. I think that investigations should start from the Eritreian first to see if he is playing around. The UNHCR should not be surprise to see these people thin because ii is normal that these Africans are like that.

A Caruana

Aug 21st 2009, 17:16

This is the European UNION? where is burden sharing? Or did i imagine these words? Or should it have been Bury The Sharing?

UNION OF WHAT??? Commerce and money only??? Is that all that is important? MONEY?

I had the idea of all for one, one for all..... i was seriously mistaken.... every country on its own.... in this case Italy and Malta on their own. Desperate people left dying like flies. To err is human but to repeat such errors is a shame. How many more have to die like this? Where are the ones who opposed the Italian way of taking them back immediately? If that was called racism then what is this called?

Its about time the word Union to be changed as that movie goes......to ONION!

lgalea

Aug 21st 2009, 17:14

Joseph Cauchi, Charles Sammut, T Lombardi, Kenneth Galea, Denis Catania
You are perfectly correct. What do the do-gooders expect that the AFM brings all illegal immigrants to Malta? As if we've not had more than enough of the illegal immigrants and their antics!! They should be turned around and pointed in the direction of Libya and those already here be sent back. The are ILLEGAL.

Joseph Tonna
Dawn in-nies gabu lilhom infushom f'din is-sitwazzjoni. Jirrangawha huma gewwa pajjizhom mhux nitwikkew bihom ahna biex joqghodu jerdghu mit-taxxi taghna. X'tippretendi li l-ewwel tissogra hajtek u mbaghad tippretendi li jigu s-suldati jissugraw hajjithom biex isalvawk?

R.Zammit
NO INQUIRY ON THE AFM.
HOW ABOUT HOLDING AN INQUIRY ON HOW THEY ARE ARRIVING IN MALTA AND NOT BEING EXPELLED?

Sandro Pace

Aug 21st 2009, 16:56

Hands off our country. No one is helping us in this matter. Last Saturday we had 115. Getting emotional will not help us in this matter. We are still going to be inundated and no one is going to lift a finger.

Whatever, the govt. cannot continue bringing some 200 per week. I stand four square behind our AFM and authorities. I dont believe the migrant anyhow. Usually they as to proceed towards Italy and risk it. I hope this will not change government policy.

Denis Catania

Aug 21st 2009, 16:44

@Claire Bonello: If they would have stayed in Libya, they would still be alive. What point are you trying to make? Do you condone little children being taken from a safe place like Libya and put in a dangerous situation? Should I do what you and UNHCR is doing and condone these dangerous crossings so more can die?

Charles Sammut

Aug 21st 2009, 16:39

@ Claire Bonello
Do you think I am worried about what your opinion on me is? I have my own opinion of the UN and its myriad satellites, but somehow I do not think it will be published here.

Yes it is a tragedy that human life is lost. But I try to look at the big picture, because this is, but a small piece of the whole canvas. Unless there is a concerted effort to stem this migration, we shall have more and more drownings. Unless of course you are not suggesting that we start chartering aircraft or cruise liners to go get these people from Libya or even Somalia.

And what happens to our own country then? We have already been over-run by these immigrants. Should we sacrifice our sociey and culture so that these people do not suffer in Africa but come and suffer in Malta? I don't think so. We cannot solve problems that are far bigger than we are. A line must be drawn before serious civil unrest happens. The situation is a lot more serious than we are being led to believe.

louise vella

Aug 21st 2009, 16:33

The latest arrivals of boatloads of illegal immigrants could be the result of Libya hardening its position innegotiations with Italy. If so UNHCR and the do-gooders will have to rethink their arguments.

See www.corriere.it

La nuova tragedia del mare
Immigrati, ripartono le ondate
E si teme che la Libia ora giochi al rialzo
Il governo e gli sbarchi, autostrada e gas i nodi ancora aperti

Joanne Micallef

Aug 21st 2009, 16:21

'After managing to escape to Ivory Coast, I was lucky enough to spend a year in Libya working as a plasterer. Nevertheless, Europe was always my aim, for there are more opportunities,” explained Mr Obeng.' http://www.independent.com.mt/news.asp?newsitemid=92712

From this paragraph one can very easily understand that these illegal immigrants can very well stay in Libya and not attempt the dangerous illegal crossing to Europe.

R.Zammit

Aug 21st 2009, 16:20

These are allegations of a most serious nature. An independent Maltese inquiry should be ordered immediately.

Joanne Micallef

Aug 21st 2009, 16:13

I fail to believe that the AFM dismissed the migrants plight and just opted to give them fuel and water, I hope this is not another attempt to throw mud at the AFM.

Claire Bonello

Aug 21st 2009, 15:46

@ Dennis Catania, Charles Sammut - Are you for real? Seventy five people are dead, there are more close to death and all you can do is jab your keyboard and howl at the UNHCR? You have no idea what the UNHCR does, what the state of play is in Libya or whether it is possible to set up refugee camps where human rights are safeguarded. Have a bit of compassion for those who died....it might reflect better on you than the constant trolling on this site.

Raymond Sammut

Aug 21st 2009, 15:20

@ Joseph Tonna

And how do you propose to stop it from happening again?Are you aware that 200 drowned only last March, and another 500 last January? What is so different about these 75? What makes you think it will not happen again, that the world is going to wake up, that the traffickers will stop filling their pockets, and all the other nonsense you keep raving about.

David Buttigieg

Aug 21st 2009, 14:45

How nice to see such Christian feelings for one's fellow man.
It makes me so proud to be Maltese!

Joseph Tonna

Aug 21st 2009, 14:31

Dawn in-nies ghandhom bzonn l-ghajnuna.

Nittama li d-dinja tisma l-ghajta taghhom u tghinnom, ghax fid-dinja wiehed ma l-iehor , kulhadd bzonn ta xulxin !

Mhux dawn in-nies qed jaghmlu l-hazin imma min qed jitraffikahhom u jimla butu minn fuq il-faqar estrem taghhom !

Joseph Tonna

Aug 21st 2009, 14:26

This is very very sad to hear !
Hope will not happen again ...

Denis Catania

Aug 21st 2009, 13:48

If the parents of those minors survived arrest them ASAP.

Kenneth Galea

Aug 21st 2009, 13:44

Postiglione can order whatever he wants. He has no right to oblige vessels passing by to help these illegals. People all over Europe in particular Itlay and Malta have had enough now with this invasion, the UNHCR and the EU should keep these illegals where they belong that is Africa and not encourage them to make the dangerous crossings. Postiglione the UNHCR is guilty of crimes against humanity, you should be investigating the UNHCR!!!!!

d bugeja

Aug 21st 2009, 12:50

It surprises me that all this frequent illegal trafficking and all these death and no one responsible for this trafficking is brought forward and taken to justice.

T Lombardi

Aug 21st 2009, 12:37

@ Charles Sammut
Well said ! How can certain people not understand such a simple concept?!

Charles Sammut

Aug 21st 2009, 12:11

The UNHCR has only itself to blame for these tragedies. Refugee camps should be set up in countries adjacent to troubled areas and refugees housed there until it is safe for them to return. Encouraging them to come to Europe is resulting in deaths on the high seas and social unrest wherever these people try to settle.

None of these illegal immigrants is entitled to refugee status in Europe. They must seek asylum the the first safe country they arrive in.

Joseph Cauchi

Aug 21st 2009, 11:36

Page 2

I believe it is the responsibility of the UNHCR to provide the required centres in Libya in helping the genuine asylum seekers to find the necessary assistance required and support the initiatives taken by the Italian Government to discourage these crossings and turn back all boats to the port of origin in Libya.

Only by this measure, innocent lives are saved, otherwise more tragedies are bound to happen and then who is going to say “Mea Culpa, Mea Massima Culpa”?

If the UNHCR and NGOs want to be appreciated by the civilized community and shown respect, then they have to open their eyes and face reality by providing the required centres in Libya and not indirectly encourage such dangerous crossings and most of all support the Italian Government’s initiative.

Hopefully, Malta will in due course copy the Italian decision!

JC.

Joseph Cauchi

Aug 21st 2009, 11:35

Part 1

When is someone going to put it into their heads that such sea-crossings are very dangerous and most of the time they end in tragedies.

These people are naïve and lack common sense when they opt for such journeys. I do not believe the theory that these people are desperate and therefore they will do all in their powers to risk their lives for a better life, holds any water, because the place from whence they came from, i.e. Libya, is relatively safe and quite prosperous, being a major oil-exporting country.

These people are either brain-washed into believing that Europe is the “Promised Land” or are forced to take these trips by criminal gangs that organize these human traffickings.

../continued

Joe Xuereb

Aug 21st 2009, 11:00

This is all very tragic. This is the price one pays for being human. They die at see and no lesson is learnt. They keep coming. A life of desperation in the country they came from? In Libya? And was a gun put to their head by people traffickers? I do not think so. People are desperate alright. But people are also notoriously foolish. The hazard that is dragging their children along with their foolishness does not occur to the foolish desperate. They pay the highest price.