Bishop's warning to the EU

A. Muscat

Aug 14th 2009, 16:55

@ Mary Borg
The Church doesn't shove anything down anyone's throat...the Church just teaches and then you are free to believe what you like, to live the way that you like.
Before I answer you I would first like to have your confirmation are you referring to the RCC please? A simple yes or no will do. Thank you.

Mary Borg

Aug 13th 2009, 22:32

Yes indeed what goes around comes around....even in eternity. What you saw here on earth you will reap in heaven so take heed. Indeed 2000years passed since the catholic faith started. The Church doesn't shove anything down anyone's throat...the Church just teaches and then you are free to believe what you like, to live the way that you like. The Church's teaching (ie the cathecism) is all taken from the scriptures...analyse them and you will realise that it is so.

Bernard Galea

Aug 13th 2009, 13:11

I never cease to be amused by people who quote scripture as proof of the holiness of....the scripture! Circular arguments...but then again those sophists with their capes, incense and pointy hats have been at it for millenia, it's hardly surprising that their foot soldiers parrot the same rhetoric.

Live and let live - let those who believe in the Catholic way of life be allowed to do so without hinderance...but Catholics must learn that they cannot force their beliefs onto others. The Catholic church has forced itself down people's throats for almost 2000 years - is it at all surprising that it now faces a backlash? What goes around comes around (unfortunately), Your holiness.

Mary Borg

Aug 8th 2009, 16:07

We go ahead and kill them...yeah right.

Old testament people were crude even uncivilised (sets me thinking..pretty much like the present age!!!)..they had no intellect to obey except by discipline that is why such was written. After new testament people were more civilised thus written the way it was. The meaning of both old and new testament was the same...repent and love God given in the way people understood it most....in OT testament as discipline in the NT in a more positive fashion.

In the new testament Jesus came not to destroy the Law but to perfect it...and to perfect it by giving positive instructions such as love as they could understand it now. So not only 'Though shalt not kill' or as they used to say in the OT an eye for an eye....but love your neighbour as yourself; and also to love your enemies.

Disciplining the people in the bank is still love...love for the bank people themselves so as to prevent them doing worst things...love for us and for the Church as given protection from such people by knowing they are disciplined.

A. Muscat

Aug 8th 2009, 14:41

@ Teresa Pace

I don’t think we know it better or we are more merciful than Jesus (Bible-Church) Am I right? My understanding is that, since these peoples belong to the Church, they must go under the penalty code to where they belong too: Bible and the Church. As well, the Bible didn’t different or distinguishes the rank or the status of the thieves /culprits so what the Bible says should apply on all including lay men.
Exodus
022:002 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
Deuteronomy
024:007 If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die; and thou shalt put evil away from among you.

The Bible is clearly stating that a theft is a capital crime. Shall we follow what the Bible says or ignore it please? What do you think Ms. Teresa Pace?

Teresa Pace

Aug 8th 2009, 07:57

A Muscat,

Disciplined....if lay people basically sacked. If clergy sacked as well and disciplined by the Church as well no matter how high up in the Church they are...cardinals and whatever. What these people did was, they placed the Church in bad light. Many past negative issues involving the Church where due to people such as these. Thus an example is sought of and such people, in my opinion, removed. People like these are bad influence...and give a very bad name.

A. Muscat

Aug 7th 2009, 21:03

Teresa Pace
You keyed in:
‘.The people who did this at the bank...in my opinion should be disciplined.’
Should those peoples be disciplined according what the Bible says? If yes please tell me how and if no please tell me why. Thanks

Teresa Pace

Aug 7th 2009, 10:36

@ G Fenech

Yes you are righ it is a disgrace...but have you ever stopped to think that the people who run the bank,even if clergy,are people just like you and me and are prone to mistakes...to sin...just like you and me.Angels belong to heaven...on earth people sin and make mistakes.The teachings are good...what the bishop says is good...what the pope says is good....PROVIDED it is according to the teachings of the Church which in turn are taken from the bible.The people who did this at the bank...in my opinion should be disciplined.

G. fenech

Aug 5th 2009, 12:43

i thought this link would be appropriate in this post

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8180739.stm

James Micallef

Jul 29th 2009, 15:30

The ignorance and intolerance on display all through this thread is unbelievable, especially considering that everyone is vying for a moral high ground that most are very far from being at. Pity the irony will be lost!

Firstly, can everyone please stop claiming that they, or the bishop, or anyone else, speak for all of us? You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine and everyone to theirs. Secondly, it doesn't matter how many signatures are gathered in the EU, we (or our MPs on our behalf) are the only ones who can decide on the abortion issue in Malta. Third, stop throwing in divorce, cohabitation etc in the same bucket with abortion. They have NOTHING AT ALL to do with each other. Fourth, anyone who believes that Malta is an ideal society that is a shining example to the rest of the world should get out of the country more often. The bishop should be looking closer to home for things to fix

Jason Fenech

Jul 29th 2009, 11:47

To: A.Muscat

I think we're on the same page. Again, I'm definitely not interested in scripture. The one quoted is a prime example of how women in the bible are discriminated against, this coming from the archaic and barbaric laws existing at the time, similar to some extent to what's in place in Muslim society today.

I'd like to add that the eventual introduction of divorce and/or abortion should have zero effect on people of firm convictions, if they are indeed as strong as statistics would have you believe. No one is stopping anyone to adhere to his or her faith let alone forcing people to opt for divorce or abortion. This is in stark contrast to faith based ideologies which are discriminately imposed, wherever there is no delineation between state and religion.

The reality is that many in this country still separate and have abortions, regardless of the ethical and moral dilemmas. Legalizing both may at least fill the inherent legal and social potholes dug out whenever someone resorts to either.

I believe that non-religious tainted education from an early start is key to minimize the likelihood of someone resorting to divorce and especially abortion later on in life.

A. Muscat

Jul 28th 2009, 19:58

@ Jason Fenech.
Have a look at this one from the NT please.

The New Testament (the Church-made new God) unequivocally advocates the indissolubility of marriage. It is attributed to Jesus to have said, "But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). This uncompromising ideal is, without a doubt, unrealistic. It assumes a state of moral perfection that human societies have never achieved. When a couple realizes that their married life is beyond repair, a ban on divorce will not do them any good. Forcing ill-mated couples to remain together against their wills is neither effective nor reasonable.

No wonder the whole Christian world (bar two backward countries which ours is one of them) has been obliged to sanction divorce and ignore the unworkable Bible.

Jason Fenech

Jul 28th 2009, 18:41

It is ironic that a lot of talk goes on justifying the stance against divorce from a religious perspective but few here reckon that divorce is first and foremost a social issue and not a religious one. You can quote scripture as much as you like but the truth is that it will never solve any social ailment. The bible, similar to other “holy” books, is a long shot from being a moral compass let alone a solution to anything as complex as divorce or abortion. If followed to the letter, we'd be killing each other by the hour;

Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."

Deuteronomy 17:2-7 "Kill everyone who has religious beliefs that are different from your own"

If you want to read on just browse to http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html or grab yourself a copy of the bible. Just remember that this is the word of god, which accordingly is indisputable.

The solution to today’s problems lies in education and unpolluted reasoning something that can never be attained as long as we keep quoting scripture and living to please some imaginary deity.

Joe Fenech

Jul 27th 2009, 09:57

It's shocking to witness some of the fundamentalist comments below. Pity that humanism, enlightenment , etc skipped us - one of the many historical proofs that we (or at least many!) are still living in the middle ages. Now we even have Gonzi the Inquisitor who has reinforced censorship, is allowing people to be arraigned for dressing as Church members, etc

Joseph Bartolo

Jul 26th 2009, 21:58

The GOD I was Implying about is the one that created man in his own divine image. His Divine name is Yahweh and he is the only almighty father in all exsistance on earth as in the heavens.

Many marriages are not founded on the faith and direction of the Holy Ones - God the almighty creator, Jesus the Christ and the Holy Ghost. Its a great shame that many marriages
end up seperated or anulled, having very deep scars of all concerned, Children, Mother and Father alike.

The only true marriage is by means of true love, that comes form the heart and soul, of each man and woman, of which must not be confused with lust, which unforunatley is completely is very mistaken with love that is inspired by our almighty creator.

Until then I send my utmost respect and prayers to all who are in this situation and may our families be united in peace, love and harmony through Christ Jesus.

One other thing is that the almighty father does not command men and women to cohabitate or commit adultary. It is so very clearly stated in the Bible especially on the subject of adultary.

God Bless

Teresa Pace

Jul 26th 2009, 21:29

Original sin is when mankind (Adam and Eve and consequently all off spring leading to us) misused freedom and turned against God...the rebuked God's love...that is orginal sin.

Christ's death on the cross...no space or time...thus the sacrifice on the cross...the redemption was also for the people who came in the OT.Infact when Jesus got transfigured on the Mountain there were Elijah and Moses...these wouldn't have been radiant if they weren't in heaven.

'Let the children come to me....' we must have faith like them, pure faith. What does a child do to a loving father? Loves him endlessly with a pure heart and that is the love we should give God.

I only have answers to some questions, if I did have answers to all questions I would be in Heaven...that is why there is a word called faith.

A. Muscat

Jul 26th 2009, 21:29

@ Teresa Pace

Did Abraham or any of the others ever preach the "crucifixion"? Did they preach the "Trinity"? I am asking for clear and decisive words and not personal forced interpretations of their words or "hidden meanings" for their words. If you are not sure then why not ask the Jews who we are told faultlessly transmitted two thirds of the Bible to us? Have any of them ever worshipped a Trinity? Many people do not bother to think about this. As long as they are going to heaven, what does it matter what happens to others?

A. Muscat

Jul 26th 2009, 21:07

@ Teresa Pace

So Jesus himself is telling us that children are born without sin and are destined for heaven without qualification. In other words, no one is born stained with an original sin.
All the many millennia of previous prophets (Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Noah, ...etc.) and their people are all condemned to never receive true salvation simply because Jesus, the alleged "Son of God," arrived to late to save them. In other words, they have sin forced upon them (by Adam, 1 Corinthians 15:22) and the chance for redemption withheld from them (By Jesus' late arrival after their death, Galatians 2:16).

Again St.Paul says
"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

Romans 5:14
"For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath reason to boast; but not before God."
Romans 4:2
If Jesus had only arrived as soon as Adam committed his sin and not thousands of generations later then maybe all of these generations could have received true salvation (like this generation).

A. Muscat

Jul 26th 2009, 20:49

@ Teresa Pace
So all this fuss about original sin is Church invention? If this is the case, mela you deserve a full credit as what you have just said is what’s being said in the Bible.

Jesus (The Bible) says ORIGINAL SIN does not exist.

Matthew 19:14 (also Mark 10:14, and Luke 18:16).
"Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
All the many millennia of previous prophets (Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Noah, ...etc.) and their people are all condemned to never receive true salvation simply because Jesus, arrived to late to save them. In other words, they have sin forced upon them (by Adam, 1 Corinthians 15:22) and the chance for redemption withheld from them (By Jesus' late arrival after their death, Galatians 2:16).

St. Paul says
"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

"

please have look at Romans 4:2 and Romans 5:14 too.

Teresa Pace

Jul 26th 2009, 19:53

You are so clever at quoting the bible. God did create a sin free world but He loved mankind so much that he let us free...even if it means turning against Him or against each other.He just wanted one thing in return...for us to love Him back...freely...that is why he gave us so much freedom in the first place.He even let us free to rebuke Him. Thus you are free to believe whatever you like. However my theory.....to every action there is a consequence good or bad.

A. Muscat

Jul 26th 2009, 19:32

@ Teresa Pace
Sorry, I may disappoint you big time here. What you are talking about is a description of a weak, powerless yet incapable God. What I mean, why all this blood and killing I see in the Bible? Why a God has to Kill his son to prove his love to mankind? (and for that matter why it was a son and wasn’t a daughter after all ?). Wasn’t this God capable to show his love in another Blood-free manner?
Wasn’t God capable to create man SIN-FREE, and to save us the fuss about original sin?
Since we both agree that God of the NT is the same God of OT. Do you feel proud having a God that insult, discriminate, subjugate women and also says .. "The birth of a daughter is a loss" (Ecclesiasticus 22:3). If I were a female I must protest to this type of God.

Have a good evening. Albert

D.Williams

Jul 26th 2009, 19:23

@A.Muscat YES....The God of Abraham ,the God of Isac and the God of Jacob ,The Father.The same God that gave us His Son so whoever believes in him will not perish and by his death we shall leave,The Son.The same God who send the Holy Ghost onto the disciples and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance,The Holy Ghost.
If you read Acts 5:33 to42 I'm sure that you will find how strong the foundation of Christianity is.The disciples lived with Jesus,ate and slept with him.They saw him dead on the cross and by all means they were scared so scared that they went into hiding,who wouldn't when his leader is killed.So what made them so outspoken in a matter of days,what made them accepting the martyrdom .The only answer is that they so Christ alive after his death again they saw him eating when He asked if they had something to eat.If this wasn't the reason they would have scattered as any other sects in those days as it is written in the passage I mentioned above.

A. Muscat

Jul 26th 2009, 19:02

@Teresa Pace
"I and my father are one."
Need more proof? Then read carefully please:
"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one." John 17:20-22
Is all of mankind also part of the "Trinity"?
Such terminology can be found in many other places, read for example:
"Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit,"
1 Corinthians 6:15-17
And also in Ephesians 4:6...1 Corinthians 12:12-14......Ephesians 4:4..etc
The space doesn't permit more to quote I am afraid.

Teresa Pace

Jul 26th 2009, 18:44

@ A.Muscat
God gave the Israelites food...he gave them water...he gave them protection...if that is not love tell me what is.They rebuked Him.They didn't want his love,they couldn't understand his love, they were not ready.Thus God disciplined them as that was something they understood.This made Him appear as a judgemental God...a fearful God. Then He sent Jesus and all this changed. Jesus died for me...Jesus died for you...Jesus could have asked for armies of angels to liberate him from the cross...but no He suffered to the last drop...for you...for me...and all this so that God can prove His love for us.God knew that He would send Jesus in the OT and what humanity will do to him...and still sent him to prove His love. God of the OT is the same as the NT...now we have actual proof that God is love...through Jesus.It's up to each and everyone of us to accept His love.

May Cassar

Jul 26th 2009, 18:43

What all this boils down too is what is morally right . No matter what religion. If one believes she has the right to kill her child before it is born for what ever reason. Then for such a person quoting the bible is of no use. If a person believes that after committing himself / herself to another for life, but when things get tough or go wrong, they throw in the towel quickly, having no regard for the children concerned. Then again quoting the bible is of no essense since what is good for them is what is a priority. All those who have contact with children of broken families know that no matter how much the children are spoilt to compensate for the lack of a really family life. Can see first hand the problems in behaviour these children go through. But as long as Daddy or Mummy are now happy everything is OK. What a sad point the world has come too when there are people who believe that a real family life is nolonger important. That now-a-days people do not have the stamina to fight hard as in centuries past for a happy family anylonger.

A. Muscat

Jul 26th 2009, 18:35

@Teresa Pace
"I and my father are one."
This verse is quoted out of context. We MUST read the whole verse to understand.
"And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.My Father which gave them me, is greater than all and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one." John 10:23-30
In divinity? In a holy "Trinity"? No! They are one in PURPOSE. Just as no one shall pluck them out of Jesus' hand, so too shall no one pluck them out of God's hand.

Joe Fenech

Jul 26th 2009, 18:16

Re abortion - the problem with the church is that it doesn't realise that it's position is very simplistic. There are many possible reasons why people resort to it: abortion: rape, fetus deformation etc. Now the church member might be willing to put up with unwanted children from a rapist, or handicapped children (no matter how much you say they're angels - they sink a family), but maybe others don't share the same view. We are not saying that abortion should be used instead of contraception (although the church is also against this!) but the option should be there. The rest is a matter of personal ethics.

One must remember that things like amniocentesis , divorce etc still don't exist which makes us worse than a country of Ayatollahs!!

Teresa Pace

Jul 26th 2009, 18:06

Please do watch the videos. Gianna was an aborted baby but by some miracle she survived.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPF1FhCMPuQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8B1nKGIAeg

Teresa Pace

Jul 26th 2009, 18:04

There also exists a word called Faith such as stated by Jesus himself to Judas the disbeliever, 'You have believed because you have seen, blessed are those who believe without having seen' something on those lines

All this is beside the point....the discussion was regards abortion. I am sure that if abortion comes even close to the Maltese islands, everyone on the island will put aside political and religious differences and unite as one. We will not allow abortion to even touch the islands. So the woman has rights?What about the baby's right?Life is a basic right for any human being but not for a defensless baby?An adult can defend him/herself?Why even a child to some extend?A baby no.So being a coward and killing someone defensless? No it will never be allowed

Teresa Pace

Jul 26th 2009, 17:56

Some quotations about the Trinity from the bible

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." - Genesis 1:26

Note the word OUR IMAGE not my image

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." - 1 John 5:7
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." - Matthew 28:19

"I and my Father are one." - John 10:30

A. Muscat

Jul 26th 2009, 17:55

@ D.Williams
I very much appreciate your comment. Before I answer you first lets us agree upon something please: Is God mentioned in the OT is same God mentioned in f NT? Thanks

Teresa Pace

Jul 26th 2009, 17:51

There are more scriptures proving that Christ was the son of God.Who died and Resurrected?...Jesus.Thus talking about Jesus

Micah 5:2, King James Version But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Jesus, whose earthly birth is prophesied here, is said to be “from of old, from everlasting,” or “from the days of eternity.” He is not a created being. Rather, He has existed from all eternity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Revelation 1:8, 17-18 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” ... [17] When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

D.Williams

Jul 26th 2009, 17:09

@A.Muscat....One has to keep in mind that the Mosaic law was written by Moses to the Israelites,while the ten commandments are God's Law for mankind. If you read Matthew 19:8 when Jesus was answering the Pharisees about the divorce he told them that it was for their hardness of their heart that Moses permitted them to leave their wives.This shows us that it was a legislation from man to men and I agree with what you wrote about discrimination ,( 3000 years ago)but in God's law (the ten commandments)there is no such thing.When I referred to Jeremiah 31:33 it was because God was talking about a new covenant in Jesus , a law Himself and Jesus never discriminated with anyone, in fact He appeared first to Mary Magdalene and told her to go and preach His Ressurection so here we even have a woman preacher.Regarding the holy Trinity it is clearly mentioned in 1John 5:7" For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."this is from King's James Version.

J. Dunlop

Jul 26th 2009, 16:40

Looks like Gozo's bishop thinks that we're still stuck in the middle ages. That was the horrible period of the Inquisition, when the church had the control and dictatorship over the people. It could abuse and punish the citizens even over a minor or irrelevant act.
The church was doing what it knows best, control and supress the people from having their rights and freedoms.
The good thing about a speech like this from a high church authority is that the church is going to continue to loose ground with statements like these, people are not ignorant any more and finally are realising what a suffocation of human rights these sort of arguments can be.

A. Muscat

Jul 26th 2009, 14:53

@ Teresa Pace.

The two issues of the debate are divorce and abortion. The latter is totally rejected. Period.
Gozo bishop Mario Grech (Whom I admire and respect but hardly agree with his views) is not representing the union of green grocers. Bishop Mario Grech is Gozo bishop, this means he represent the Church, this means the Bible, this means ‘God’s words’.

My question: Are the Bibles at our hands today represent uncorrupted and edited God’s words?

If it can be proven, through the Bible, that Jesus is not God, nor the physical/begotten/sired son of God, neither there is no original sin or any TRINTIY (I CHALLENGE ANY BODY TO FIND THE WORD TRINITY IN THE BIBLE), then will this prove that the unscrupulous few have corrupted the word of God or not?

I acknowledge that every one is free to swallow what the Church says and equally follow a blind faith or alternatively add a deity to a piece of stone of his/her choice.
Why pre-religions peoples opted to worship statues made of stones? Because the latter don’t provide any laws/obligations additionally they are powerless and easily controlled by worshippers.

Charles Sammut (NY)

Jul 26th 2009, 14:11

Amazing how many like to conveniently quote the Bible literally saying that is God's word.. Maybe one of them could explain to me what God meant in the Bible where it states in Leviticus that one should not wear a cloth with cotton and wool mixed together. It's in the Bible.. Anyone can look it up.

Teresa Pace

Jul 26th 2009, 13:38

@ A Muscat
The bible isn't used just by the Roman Catholic church. A host of other christian churches and denominations use the exact same bible. All Christian churches, like the Catholic Church, agree that the bible is God's law.

Teresa Pace

Jul 26th 2009, 13:28

@ A Muscat
I suggest that you truly start reading the bible as it is intended to be and not sarcastically. You will truly find comfort and joy.

Teresa Pace

Jul 26th 2009, 13:25

The bible is an excellent book in every situation...a good psychological book, for advice (every circumstances in life), for comfort...you name it you have it. If we all follow the bible to perfection the world wouldn't be in trouble it is in now. There would be less wars, no hunger, no injustice...because it is the word of God and in it depicted how God wanted the world to be. Ok you might mention what you said that it is antifemale...the writers were effected by the culture.

Teresa Pace

Jul 26th 2009, 13:18

@A Muscat
You are so clever at quoting the bible...would be excellent if you quote it and understand it well instead of sarcastically quoting it.. Although the writers were illuminated by the Holy Spirit, they were also effected by the traditions of their times.Up till some years ago,women had no right whatsoever in tne world...'some' I'm relating to a century or so ago...even less in some places.In some countries, nowadays, women are still second class citizens Thus they were spirit filled through but were effected by culture of their time...try explaining to them equality amongst sexes during their time.As for St Augustine, he was a saint and he did not write the bible...he was a very learned man,a theologian but he did not write the bible...he had a right to his opinion and he expressed it...and no I do not agree with him.As for your previous comment regarding psalm 74...I suggest you read all the psalm.God protected them,gave them food, water, protection and they rebuked him.Thus for some time 'he left them to fend on their own until they started to even think about Him...then he woke as if from sleep to protect them

A. Muscat

Jul 26th 2009, 13:13

@Joseph Bartolo
‘One thing is for sure dear brothers and sisters, if our families end up in divorce the whole of society will crumble and what will happen to our beloved nation? What God joins together, may no man/woman tear assunder. God is our creator and if we live in him and through him, we will surely prevail.’......This is what the edited and corupted Bible says!

The fact which the God you are referring to forgot to mention, or to provide remedy is that: Marriages do break. Now in case of broken or unsuccessful marriage, does this same God encourage adultery in forms of cohabitations? What’s the solution please to protect both women and kids rights?

A. Muscat

Jul 26th 2009, 12:29

@ D.William
Both NT and OT are stuffed with many of what the RCC claims to be God’s laws. However I never read as insulting, discriminative and filled with subjugation to half mankind (women) book as it’s the case with the Bible. Please let me go a little step farther and check the credibility of the legislator and see if this would lead to a Just God.
In the Bible I read: "The birth of a daughter is a loss" (Ecclesiasticus 22:3).
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I don't permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner" (I Timothy 2:11-14).
"A man who educates his son will be the envy of his enemy." (Ecclesiasticus 30:3)
St. Augustine wrote to a friend:‘......I fail to see what use woman can be to man if one excludes the function of bearing children."
Can you imagine the reaction in Brussels or any other civilized place if the Pope utters such words today?

Charles Sammut (NY)

Jul 26th 2009, 11:42

Plain and simple those that are against abortion should not have any. Same cardinal rule applies to divorce..Noone should impose his beliefs on others. By the way can someone tell me if the Church is still against the use of Contraceptives? Would not the use of contraceptives cut down on the number of unwanted pregnancies and thus potentially fewer abortions? Am I missing something here?

E Compagno

Jul 26th 2009, 08:36

God's laws ... you mean like Sharia...


**shudders**

I want freedom of choice for everyone. Freedom to choose your religion, freedom to choose not to have one, freedom to choose divorce..

I have a problem with freedom to choose abortion because you're taking the freedom of life away from the fetus.. but I am for the morning after pill or a non-invasive termination of the pregnancy within the first days.

The church has a right to preach.. and we have a right to choose to do the exact opposite.

Joseph Bartolo

Jul 26th 2009, 08:22

One thing is for sure dear brothers and sisters, if our families end up in divorce the whole of society will crumble and what will happen to our beloved nation ? What God joins together, may no man/woman tear assunder. God is our creator and if we live in him and through him, we will surely prevail.

God Bless You all Abundantly :)

Peace, Love and Harmony to you, yours and your neighbours. For UNITED WE STAND and DIVIDED WE FALL. Choose my beloved in wisdom through Christ our Lord and Saviour.

William Schembri

Jul 26th 2009, 08:11

@m vella and @claire farrugia,

I agree that there should be institutions as Claire Farrugia said to give advice BUT abortion is NOT a possibility they have. So these institutions must be against abortion.

You can never take such decision on behalf of someone else. If you take a decision on behalf of someone who cannot speak that is not freedom of choice.

Why does it bother you the health condition of a woman aborting at an illegally doctor 'skarpan' and does not bother you the death of a human being?

In worst circumstances at least give the child the possibility to live. I know people who never met their real parents but now a days succeded. However learing to accept the responsibility of our actions is the best thing we can do.

Stefan Attard

Jul 26th 2009, 03:40

Mons Grech is right about what he said. if we do not speak who is going to speak for us. that's the bishop role. if other countries are doing abortions what are they doing good? see what is going on in china. special of the day!!! fetus soup!!! is this what we want our country to be? living in a death era. abortion is killing. abortion is murder>

charles zammit

Jul 25th 2009, 21:53

issa ma hemmx x'taghmel. la dhalna fil club irridu noqodu ghar regoli tieghu messna illuminajna il fidili qabel.

Raymond Cachia

Jul 25th 2009, 18:24

Who is the bishop fooling with his warnings?

Does he not know that the whole concept of the EU came from the 'Club of Rome' in 1957 when right-wing elements, including the Catholic Church came together to plan the "One World Government" or the "New World Order".

The last G8 in Italy, they had already progressed so far to show the delegated the new world currency, which will eventally replace both the Dollar and the Euro. So, the plans, unbeknowst to most of the citizens in each of these countrie is well underway.

claire farrugia

Jul 25th 2009, 17:19

@william schembri
I am not for abortion, it may have serious psychological consequences on the woman which may accompany her all her life, women who decide to abort have difficult life circumstances, otherwise no woman would have the courage and the will to kill her unborn child. that is why these women need help and there have to be institutions who help them and counsel them about all the possibilites they have, in Germany it is church institutions usually who offer counselling free of charge regarding women who are in such situations. Still,legalizing it led to the fact that people were not doing it illegally and they were receiving appropriate counselling from psychologists before doing abortion and were having it done in a hygienic way were the physical consequences were not so bad, although the psychological consequences may be much worse. Maltese are still going abroad to do it, which implies costs and other risks. So it is still occuring whether one wants it or not. This does not mean I would ever do it, I would not even think about it. It is still the choice of the woman which only she can take.

M Vella

Jul 25th 2009, 17:14

@ William Schembri.

Regardless of our personal beliefs and choices, the issue will not go away simply because we choose not to face it.

The questions you should also be asking are:
How does it help if one opposes a strategy to PREVENT unwanted pregnancies and diseases?
What about the fact that by hook or by crook people will do it anyway? How about those who are forced into it?
That illegally operating doctors or 'skarpani' will cash in anyway?

William Schembri

Jul 25th 2009, 16:44

To all those who posted a comment:

Making such issue a religious issue is non sense because what is wrong is wrong whether said by the church or by other institutions by me or by you.

Free choice for woman who wish to abort but what about the free choice of the real and true victim the one being slaughtered without the ability or the right to speak.

For those who agree with abortion please see pictures of aborted children, he/she is just like you but on a very smaller scale, has feet, legs and everything.

Just imagine IF your mother decided to abort when she was pregnant, you wouldnt even be here to comment. Everyone wants to live forever imagine they took your life before you were even born without the chance to defend yourself.

Finally i really dont care if the prime minister, the bishop, the ordinary men stand up against these campaigns as long as someone stands up for them.

M Vella

Jul 25th 2009, 15:17

@ Claire Farrugia

In Germany they got real ages ago about the fact that the 'white europe' (I feel awful for using this word at all but I'm sure you understand we're on here) is dying a natural death.

Of course in their sapienza in Malta they'd rather proliferate through inbreeding, oppose the sexual health strategy and pay for the retroactive treatments that STDs, irregular abortions, diabetes and what not create through our taxes, we do not even have epidemiological studies for that matter let alone prevention policies. As they say ''la madre dell'ignoranza e sempre incinta'.

J Bajada

Jul 25th 2009, 14:37

many of you have not understood what this is all about. it is NOT the EU which is forcing its members to introduce divorce, abortion, etc, but only a member of a political party in Sweden who is trying to put pressure on the EU to accept its beliefs. therefore, the EU is not forcing Malta to introduce abortion. so, if the EU manages to withdraw the pressure from Ms. Ohlsson, it must get all the plaudits it deserves. that is what the bishop is saying, warning the EU to clear any attempts from Ohlsson. stop blaming the EU, it is just a member of a political party in Sweden who's making all this fuss.
another thing...many are saying that the bishop is big headed making such statements..shame on you! so now that someone is finally speaking out (after all he's doing his job) against something which he believes is ethically wrong, you are turning it into a joke. then, when something bad is on the horizon and everyone seems to be afraid to speak out, you are always the first to blame the country for its lack of courage to defend its beliefs.

claire farrugia

Jul 25th 2009, 14:06

also in Germany for example, they offer women all opportunities to still have a child despite being unmarried or poor, by offering them special apartments which are cheaper, and several other financial benefits and services where one can give up a newborn child anonymously so as to discourage abortion, so it is not as if in Europe they are trying to encourage abortion. they made it legal just so that women dont have to go and do it illegally with a doctor who they do not know and trust and whether they may get infections and health problems risking their life.

Ivan Attard

Jul 25th 2009, 14:00

This bishop chap is now getting a little too large for his boots! I imagine Brussels and the policy makers there shivering in their seats (the ones they just warm to get that extra fat stipend our MP wannabees so much fought to be part of).
As to 'warnings' about our impending loss of faith and values: I only say this to Mons. Grech:
We have now been allowed to merge our culture and 'values' to that monster called MULTICULTURALISM and COSMOPOLITAN SOCIETY where you tend to see more foreigners of every hue and creed than Maltese at every corner. This has been allowed to happen with the blessing of the Church, the government, opposition and the 'liberal' forces in this once fair land. IT IS NOW USELESS TO TRY STIFLING THE MURMURINGS AND BELIEVE YOU CAN KEEP THINGS THE WAY THEY WERE ONCE!!!
Get that in your head Mons. Grech.

A. Muscat

Jul 25th 2009, 12:52

@ Teresa Pace to @ Dr Emy Bezzina

Psalms 78:65 "Then the LORD awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine."

Can God sleep?

Chev Chris Galea

Jul 25th 2009, 12:21

If Brussels tries to impose abortion on Malta, we will BOYCOTT the EU.

Even if it means we will end up in PRISON

M Vella

Jul 25th 2009, 11:36

hahahahaha, some comments on here dare talk about law and democracy when they're out to talibinise the state. Yes you're more than free and have every right to follow Catholic teachings or the Pastafarianism if you wish. My wholesome and sincere best wishes. What you have no idea whatsoever is however that...

Do we elect the bishop or the government please?
Did we vote for the EU or not please?

That's democracy, you may choose to regulate your lives according to the bishop, for myself, YES I voted for the EU and that's the interference I want not this hullaballolloo.

As a friend says.. ''when life starts imititating South Park'' you really have something to worry about!!

A. Grech

Jul 25th 2009, 11:11

@A.Muscat. You can start to find God's Law first of all in your own heart. God's Law was TOUGHT to you by your beloved parents. God's Law can be found in Our Church's teachings and yes IN THE BIBLE.

Teresa Pace

Jul 25th 2009, 10:11

The teachings of the Catholic Faith..all summerised in the cathecism of the catholic faith...if you comb through the cathecism (with a very fine comb) you will find that ALL of the teachings are taken straight from the bible. There are many things which the Church allows, human traditions, in my opinion these have to be decapitated from use in the Church especially those traditions which hinder one's relationship with God.Some members in the Church did things which did hurt God....things which should never be repeated...there is God judge of all to judge these persons.Catholic church should invest more time and energy to create a true relationship between belivers and God..to present God as a loving father and not a cruel judge.It should also represent a teaching that we choose the right things because we love God and not because of eternal punishment.There are things that should be improved..but teachings themselves are teachings of Christ. Infact where it comes to specifically teachings of man, I think these should be revised and pruned where they need to be especially if they hinder our relationship with God..God is everloving we do not earn his love,he gives it freely..we just have to accept it

Teresa Pace

Jul 25th 2009, 09:55

@ Dr Emy Bezzina
Got news for you...Catholic church does represent Christ's teachings, it was founded by Christ himself. I implore you to take some time and go back right to the beginnings of the Church...go back to the apostolic fathers if needs be (apostolic fathers are the first generation after the apostles....Christ's teachings were handed down to the apostles who in turn handed them down to the apostolic fathers. Let me put it this way...some apostolic fathers were even round,even if at a tender age, when Christ was alive as a person in this world). So in my non-theological reasoning, just logic....if the apostolic fathers were so close to Jesus himself, they HEARD and LISTENED to him, no in betweens, doesn't that make what the apostolic fathers said what Jesus had said as well?If you go back to apostolic fathers you will realise that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ himself founded. Basic teachings such as The true prescence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist,The Virgin Mary (these are the basics) and other suggestions such as a hierchy which is used in the Catholic Church -bishops, priests whatever-all written there

lgalea

Jul 25th 2009, 08:23

Anthony Magri, g.c.Forte, Daniel Jackson, J Farrugia
You are perfectly correct and we can still reverse the wrong decision by leaving the eu.

Jimmy Magro I will also do so and encourage others to also bombard her with e-mails to stop interfering in our internal affairs.

J.C.AZZOPARDI

Jul 25th 2009, 07:02

Right you are Mons. Grech. 100% right and the Swedish Liberals need not try to intervene in internal affairs. But as others pointed out. It is useless to cry over spilt milk now Mons. What did the Church did or say before we joined the EU? Everyone knew of what was in store for us, what about the removal of the Cruxifix, about abortion, same sex marriages or cohabitation. Where these issues only to surface now, or where we already aware of what had happened elsewhere in Europe. Il-lupu issa wasal. Issa jibki min stiednu Mons.
I for one have nothing on my conscience.
Min xarbu qieghed jieklu l-bakkaljaw.

D.Williams

Jul 25th 2009, 06:51

@A.Muscat," if your answear is the bible you have to prove it."Well I take it ,that you have read the bible,so you must have come across a lot of paragraphs that speak about God's Law,Deuteronomy,Levictus ,most of the book of Psalms and the book of Proverbs,the four Gospels,Acts and Paul's letters.All the prophets have spoken about this law,in Jeremiah 31:33 we read..."But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days "declares the Lord "I will put my LAW within them and on their heart I will write it ,and I will be their God and they shall be my people."So when we accept the word of God,He will writes his law into our hearts and we will know what is good or evil. A law that its foundation is love John 3;16 For God so loved the world,that He gave His only begotten Son,that who ever believes in Him shall not perish,but have eternal life.

Guze Xerri

Jul 25th 2009, 02:09

"and did not want to know about mortification, he said."

Hmmm.... I visited Vatican City and St Peter's and what I saw there was a complete 180 degrees from anything resembling mortification.
I guess it is do as I say and not do as I do.

Scerri S

Jul 25th 2009, 01:46

What a pain this gozo bishop is.... He's younger than his predecessor but even worse. Just another reminder of how out of touch they all are with the times. You have no longer control over the people, so just get over it! But this approach only pushes the 'lost sheep' further away.

Paul Galea

Jul 25th 2009, 01:23

Bishop M. Grech is right in pointing out the threats facing our society.

Malta is a member of the EU, and so we should be on the alert of what is being done in the EU. We should safeguard our moral values, by opposing any unethical EU proposals because they undermine our society.

We should also be conscious about the implications of the proposed EU constitution. It has been stated that by the proposed EU constitution, the laws of the EU will override the Laws of Malta, even our constitution. As a result they will also override the so called "guarantees" mentioned on accession.

Therefore, if abortion is introduced in the laws of the EU, Malta would have to accept them automatically.

So we should be alert not to succumb to any outside threats.

The worst threats are so subtle that they will not even be noticed. This is the case of the EU constitution. What it contains is more important than the sixth seat in the EU Parliament. We should not be taken in by the political parties' propaganda.

malcolm seychell

Jul 24th 2009, 21:53

Kontradizzjonijet biss.

The bishop should know that people from different cultures,which he seems to like so much would mean that many won't have his same values.

Decide what you want and then speak.

Li thobb l alla u xitan f salt impossibli

James Scerri

Jul 24th 2009, 21:52

@A. Grech : Please God to come to enforce our laws here!! :)

James Scerri

Jul 24th 2009, 21:50

The Bishop should stick to his job...that is, guiding his clergy!
...is the church lifting it's head trying to squeeze through to opress people again.

If one wants to do an abortion it's still possible...go to a foreign country where it's legal!
So Bishop...get your hands dirty and create a coucilling team anti-abortion! critizing the EU is not your business!

For me all of this is : "Paroli fil-vojt"

Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi

Jul 24th 2009, 21:10

The EU is a continuation of the Pope's Holy Roman Empire, so Bishop Grech is acting like a disinformation agent with his statement and warning to the EU.

The horror skeletons of the past that the bishop talks about are very much his organization's creations. Frans Von Papen, jesuit coadjutor, Hitlers mentor, chancelor of Germany(June 1932-March 1933) and first vice-chancellor of the Third Reich, stated in his book: "My Conversations with Hitler": "Hitler has put into practice the high ideals of the papacy".

A. Muscat

Jul 24th 2009, 21:05

@ A. Grech 'To All who shouts FREEDOM......There is NO freedom without Law, and God's Law is the true Law.' I fully agree with the first part of your comment. Where can I find God’s law please? If your answers is the Bible, you will have to prove this please. Thank you

Raymond Sammut

Jul 24th 2009, 20:57

A very pretty and tranquil outdoor setting. Well done, bishop Mario Grech. You are learning aren't you? Hitting upon the right issues and in the right way.

A. Grech

Jul 24th 2009, 20:41

To All who shouts FREEDOM......There is NO freedom without Law, and God's Law is the true Law.

Anthony Magri

Jul 24th 2009, 19:51

I am proud to be Maltese and that's enough. Am against membership of the E.U. have always been and still am, not the least because Malta's population has to bend heads to what foreigners propose. The Church was against integration because of divorce. The referendum was scuttled. The Church was not against union with Europe.The referendum was positive in favour of the E.U reinforced by the result of an election . All religious sisters were instructed(ordered/compelled) to vote yes even those that suffered from Alzheimer, they were given each a fac-simile of the voting paper with a cross on the yes part.They did not know what they were voting for. The main culprit is E. Fenech Adami. All the evil things coming out of the E.U. and Malta has to agree with them are the responsibility of this late Prime Minister who was awarded the prize of President. We celebrated the anniversary of our membership with the E.U. with pomp and fireworks. The result, the E.U. will not last 50 years, and that will be God sent For the moment it is useless to cry over spilt milk.Remember Babel!

Joseph Schembri

Jul 24th 2009, 19:15

What an insightful analysis by Stephen Spiteri! One rarely reads such well expressed and objective thoughts on such issues.

Dr. John Zammit

Jul 24th 2009, 18:01

What kind of news is this from behind the mountains of Gozo? How does the editor report such news that come from the middle ages?! We are in the 21st century now and members of the European Union!!! The Gozo bishop never learns? I have signed the petition of Brigitta Ohlsson and support her. Learn more about abortion and the Liberals in Europe tune in to: http://worldtv.com/alleanza_liberali_malta - open your minds and stop talking rubbish and stupid things.

Stephen Spiteri

Jul 24th 2009, 17:58

Ideally fundamental values should not be tied to any particular religious belief as there is always the danger that by loosing one a person may end up loosing the another. Ideally no institution should have a monopoly on morality or ethical guidelines. I don 't know about any society which is perfectly tuned to these ideals. The existence of institutions, such as any church, to act as a beacon of light is partly because of this. But I can see nothing 'holy' or 'Christian'. What I see are very practical and sensible solutions for an imperfect society. In due time society develops in such a way as to be less dependent on certain institutions and maybe comes to rely on better ones. Whether it is really better or not its up for the new institution to proof. What I can say though, is that institutions such as the church have been in humanity 's court for millennia. Currently they are imprisoned and soon enough they walk on to the 'green mile' towards that electric chair. Yet the church may well be innocent and receive the pardon posthumously.

Mark Galea

Jul 24th 2009, 17:07

@ A.Muscat.
Maybe we don't have Napoleon Bonaparte, but we have people like you who think they can.

M Bezzina

Jul 24th 2009, 16:56

It is amazing that the Church always plays the part of the victim.
The real victims are those who are not allowed a freedom of choice.
By introducing abortion or divorce no-one is forcing anyone to make use of them against his/her own free will. All those who want to listen to the bishop: all well and good. But let all the others, who want to decide for themselves, have the opportunity to do so.
Who is imposing on who?
If the Church is trying to impose its will, is that democracy?
Freedom of Choice is the real Democracy.

Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi

Jul 24th 2009, 16:42

A. Muscat,

"we don’t have a Napoleon Bonaparte to teach the Pope a lesson!"

Don't forget that Napoleon Bonaparte was a creature of the jesuits and their avenger.
it was through Bonaparte that the society was reinstated in 1814.

g.c.Forte

Jul 24th 2009, 16:34

Dear Bishop... I agree with you 100%, thats why I have voted against the E.U.and still I am against it`s culture.You should have spoken then not today. I want to imagine when there will be a student from another religion and tells the teacher to take away the Crucifix from the classroom what will happen. At this moment there are more from a particular religion in the E.U. than the Roman Catholic, now when Turkey goes in,they will have superiority when it comes to religions,and as once Mr. Edwin Vassallo said....I quote..." NOW WE ARE IN THE E.U. AND WE DO WHAT THEY TELL US. " Troppo Tardi Mons.

A. Muscat

Jul 24th 2009, 16:13

@ Mark Galea
I would comment only on your last sentence. You keyed in :
‘It is the message of Christ Himself.’
Did Christ forget to teach about another fact of life (not science) that called divorce?
Did Christ teach adultery?
Did Christ teach cohabitation?
Did Christ teach crusades?
Did Christ teach inquisitions? By coincidence we are in July 23, 2009 the inquisitions began in 21 July 1542, but the difference is that today we don’t have a Napoleon Bonaparte to teach the Pope a lesson!


@ C.Sammut thanks for partially answer my question.

Alex Ellul

Jul 24th 2009, 16:06

This is the link for those who are interested in approving the killing of unborn human beings. Go on, the responsibility is yours:

http://www.makenoiseforfreechoice.eu/

This on-line form should have also included for signatures for those who disapprove. THAT IS DEMOCRACY. But the people organising this charade come from the undemocratic extreme left of the European political spectrum; those who, having lost their political mother, a.k.a. Soviet Union/Worldwide domination by Socialism, want to dominate the world by stealth. They will fail. Evil always fails in the end in whatever form it comes.

Charles Sammut

Jul 24th 2009, 15:36

The Bishops should have spoken BEFORE the referendum. It is now all idle chatter which very few take seriously.

As for horror skeletons, no other institution worldwide has more horror skeletons than the Roman Catholic Church.

Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi

Jul 24th 2009, 15:32

Re- writing history is a very useful tool for those that want to hold on to power.
A bit of light research will reveal who caused the horror skeletons of the past, and who caused the real skeletons in their millions to be made before their time.

M Bezzina

Jul 24th 2009, 15:28

Thank you your Excellency for letting me know where to sign the petition.

For others who are interested, here is the link :
http://www.makenoiseforfreechoice.eu/

Mark Galea

Jul 24th 2009, 15:27

To many of the bloggers below, I say, "Shame on you". I bet you weren't seated among the faithful in the picture shown. If you don't wish to be a part of the Roman Catholic Church, so be it......but let the faithful practise their faith. Let them listen and learn from our beloved bishops, who MUST urge the faithful and instruct them against those whose ulterior motive is to destroy the Catholic Church and everything it teaches. And to those who keep harping about pedophilia.....is that all you can say about the church? True....there are some who err in their ways, and that is absolutely wrong. But can you never think of those who benefit from the Chuch's missionary works locally and throughout the world? Why do you mud-sling the Church for the mistakes of the few, when thousands of young missionaries worldwide leave the comforts of their families and homes to work with the wretched, the weak, the poor, the orphans and countless others? I am no saint, but agree totally with Bishop Mario Grech, because his message is not really his. It is the message of Christ Himself.

C.Sammut

Jul 24th 2009, 15:26

To A.Muscat -
'Divorce existed among all nations’ centuries before Jesus was born'
Actually even marriage existed before Jesus was born. It was a prearranged communion of two people for economical reasons. The Church came in way later.
Nowadays the economical reasons do not necessarily exist, and if they exist it might not necessarily be for opposite sex members. However, with no procreation, we would need to rethink the world's economical system and survival!

Alex Ellul

Jul 24th 2009, 15:14

It is very easy to get a million signatures, out of a EU population of hundreds of millions, for whatever reason one may think of. I'm pretty sure that Ms. Brigitta Ohlsson will manage to get the million signatures she wants, but that does not mean anything. EU-Malta membership excludes this. Likewise anti-abortionists will, if they try, manage to get a million signatures to propose that the EU bans abortion from all over the EU, but again, this is just nonsense.

May I recommend to Ms. Ohlsson to forget about her abortion crusade and try to emulate Mother Theresa of Culcutta and help the very poor men, women and children of Calcutta and many other millions of people all over the planet, in alleviating the misery they are living and dying in.

Rocco Cauchi

Jul 24th 2009, 15:10

Thank God we have Christians who speak out, bishops who are aware why they are robed in red to remember they are ever on the road of martyrdom not comfort.
There is much to be said on Europe, socialist Europe especially, which is more heinous than any form of atheism or agnosticism we ever knew.
We cannot deny it, for denying an evil exists is just as bad as giving it full leeway and blessing to continue with its premeditated evil course.
If our antagonists know fully well what they are doing, we cannot be complacent about it and let them do what they like, all in the name of freedom, democracy and human rights.

G. Fenech

Jul 24th 2009, 14:46

When are we going to separate the church and the state? When are the church authorities going to apologize for their mistakes in the past, AND also name and shame all the clergy that were involved in pedophilia?

The church is always the first to frown on people that think freely, and dont live by their book, Well i think its about time the church should look to see what is happening inside their organisation and sort that out before trying to convince the rest of the population to follow their lead.

Its amazingly conveniant to be able to not reply to any questions on hot topics when they are confronted, but then speak like this in front of a crowd that cant really see the truth of the church due to brainwashing.

Divorce / Abortion / eating meat / hugging trees / believing in Santa clause.... these are all personal choices that should be done freely. I don't agree with the church or any other organisation trying to force-feed morality or scaremongering faith.

I have no problem people speaking their mind or sharing their faith, but i don't like imposition

Dr Emmy Bezzina,EU Candidate

Jul 24th 2009, 14:35

What CHURCH are we relating to ? The Maltese Catholic Church does not represent JESUS CHRIST - it is a materialistic Organization bent on hoodwinking the so-called faithful [ FIDILI - yeah !!! ] and aggrandizing its hold on this once myopic Society. That is a past belief,however.We are a pluralistic Society plus a Cosmopolitan one - led into the EU and for whatever it stands by none other than the RELIGIO ET PATRIA Party [ TAL-MADUMA].
The Maltese Catholic Church let it be known has a hidden Strategy that they want to infiltrate back into a power hold over this Country as they used to in yesteryear: the March 1st,1995,Scandalous Amendment to the Maltese Marriage Act was one of their ploys;so is the current Master of Arts in Canonical Law,as was the Maltese Episcopal Conference in 1992,and so many other maneuvers.The influence of the Maltese Catholic Church must be removed from Article 2 of our Constitution which contradicts Article 45 of the same, the European Convention and EU Laws.The way to GOD & DIVINITY does not need ogreish Messeigneurs dictating in a Democracy!

Dr Sandro Vella

Jul 24th 2009, 14:29

@ Ronald Cauchi
While I agree that no one in his right senses enjoys mortification, I disagree on your view of its relevance to human life.
Are we here just to have fun?
Even at the cost of being irresponsible?
If so, no wonder Maltese society and, for that matter, the Western World is fast losing its grip on ethical and social issues!

Reuben Sciberras

Jul 24th 2009, 14:13

Though it is the right of Bishops & clergy to talk on moral and social issues, it seems that lately, the Gozo Bishop has become the sole person in terms of ecclesiasthical power to react on behalf of the Church...Do his views reflect the main position of the church or just his own personal reaction?

victor borg

Jul 24th 2009, 14:06

Those well paid chaps in Brussels must reeling with this onslaught.

First thing no Brigitta Ohlsson (never heard of her) can make us change our abortion laws. Only we can change them. So i guess that this warning has nothing to do with Brussels but aimed solely at the local politicians.

With regards to mortification, hands up those in favour...........hmmm not many i suppose.

A. Muscat

Jul 24th 2009, 13:58

Divorce existed among all nations’ centuries before Jesus was born. So says Ranier Fsadni in his article of yesterday.
I have two simple questions:
According the Church the Bible doesn’t permit divorce, does the Bible permit cohabitation?
Why priests don’t get married?

Can Mgr Grech or body provide an answer please?

Oscar Cassar

Jul 24th 2009, 13:57

The late Pope John Paul II, greatly believed in Europe but at the time of accession, only few years ago, our bishops at the time did not encouraged in favour of an EU membership as Pope John Paul II did for his country. Now it seems easy for our bishops ‘to speak out their mind’

M Gauci

Jul 24th 2009, 13:55

It's hardly surprising that mgr grech does not care about regulating health services and the dangers of illegal abortions. As for moritification has not a gozitan priest been allegedly trying to shut a rape victim up? How's that for a message of hope and justice?!!

martin saliba

Jul 24th 2009, 13:54

He appealed to families to educate their children in human and Christian values to prepare for a new political generation for the future.

So this guy wants the church to regain the opresive power it had in the middle ages. Dream on i say.
I agree with the church regarding abortion but only because i am pro live , religion has nothing to do with it. With regards to divorce Malta will have it whatever he says.

Daniel Jackson

Jul 24th 2009, 13:26

I am glad the Bishop of Gozo spoke up. I agree with him. We must promote
the value of the family built on marriage - Christian marriage of course - which is a sacrament and exists to show God's love for us.

Malta should not be forced to sign to introduce an abortion act. I would rather Malta left the EU than do that.

Ronald Cauchi

Jul 24th 2009, 13:17

.".... society did not want to know about mortification!" ...Of course not. We're here to have fun. After all one has to be a mosochist to enjoy mortification. As if there isn't enough misery in the world without self-mortification.

r ferriggi

Jul 24th 2009, 13:12

i do not consider myself an authority on ethics etc.

but the EU cannot dictate to us on such issues.

an EU citizen is free to do waht he/she wants IN OTHER nations according to their laws.
but if we as a nation,,, choose a different way,,, we have a right to.

for most maltese,,, abortion is a crime against humanity.

if we had to be forced to sign that treaty,,, we should have NO problem to leave the EU. we cannot be part of such crimes.

after all,,,, we help and assist all immigrants who arrive here. it is exactly the same thing.

protecting the unborn,,,,, and helping the needy from death.

Stephen Scerri

Jul 24th 2009, 12:57

This is the type of Church leaders we need. People like Bishop Grech who speak out their mind to protect our society which is being bombarded from every direction.

J. Borg

Jul 24th 2009, 12:57

Yeah ..... how dare the EU .....
allows anyone to dress up as priests and nuns
question the extension of a cemertary, "just" because it contaminates a natural spring!

David Stephen Ganado

Jul 24th 2009, 12:56

Yes, let us keep on wearing blinkers and insist on no divorce.

Divorce is not something one looks forward to but it is the only way to sort out a problem and try and start afresh. Too many couple a living lives of misery because they cannot completely cut off from their ex-partner. I am convinced that should divorce be allowed in Malta the number of broken families will hardly increase but there will definately be a drastic reduction in legal seperations to be replaced by divorces - so basically nothing will change except for people getting the real freedom they deserve.

Naturally, any divorce legislation would need to have proper controls to avoid the sort of abuse and frivolity one sees in many other countries.

As for Abortion, since i believe that life starts at conception there is no way i could ever accept it.

Jimmy Magro

Jul 24th 2009, 12:43

I have already sent an email to Brigitta Ohlsson telling her that to be liberal also means that she must respect the free values of other countries. The EU cannot legislate on the question of abortion as this has nothing to do with the operation of the free market or competitiveness.

The EU should work to reduce the price of oil (whether crude or refined) so that as a group of strong nations they can offer humane prices for energy. Inventing directives to adopt environment friendly energy sources, at a price three ties the conventional price, does not make any sense.

The EU should ensure that its money is used in a sensible manner; a report in yesterday's L-Orizzont showed how many millions of euros are burnt everyday in wasted projects, handshake bonuses, special pensions and other lollipops for the inner circle.

The cost of having studies and reports on Ms. Ohlsson proposal will mean more millions (taxpayers money) being flushed into the drainage

BTW, Ms. Ohlsson is so liberal that she did not even bother to reply to my email and this shows how these so called democrats are living in a glasshouse of their own.

Eric Gahn

Jul 24th 2009, 12:41

And what skeleton is this he talks about? The high number of failed marriages or the abuse and murder (aka The Inquisition) commitied by his church in the name of God?

Raymond Camilleri

Jul 24th 2009, 12:37

they must be trembling in Brussels!

Tim Ripard

Jul 24th 2009, 12:36

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. The church has many more skeletons in its closet!

J Farrugia

Jul 24th 2009, 12:32

At last we have a bishop who really understands and speaks his mind and stands up for all of us. May God give him the wisdom to continue harrasing this immoral Europe. Never will Malta accept divorce, abortion or eutanasia. Never. Not even with a billion signatures of european foreigners. Even at the cost of disowning and getting out of the EU.