Karozzini fight ADT to retain Valletta business

Dennis Zammit

Jul 23rd 2009, 20:32

The 'PEDESTRIAN ZONE' used by ADT approved vehicles is a pure JOKE and a safety HAZARD.

This is just like the pedestrian zone in Islet Promenade in Bugibba over the summer weekends. Good idea just for one point . . . the smog, polluting buses are still allowed to pass. TRY to imagine a pedestrian area with people and kids roaming around in the street and buses passing this way and that way. HA HA HA. Who was the bright person who came up with this hazardous idea????

Lawrence Bonello

Jul 23rd 2009, 18:40

@ A.Zahra
"Other places do have their own versions of our karozzin and are very proud about them, so why shouldn't we?"
They are proud of them because

they are courteous to tourists
they charge reasonable prices
thay have adequate provision to avoid making the city's roads look & smell like a freshly-manured field

I never came across any foul-mouthed, abusive or belligerent cabby (or taxi) driver in other places, Mr Zahra.
A case of "only in Malta"!!

s aquilina

Jul 23rd 2009, 16:39

"As for their breadwinning, i'm sure they could do the job of a taxi driver - they already have the prerequisates. "

or become pedicab drivers, so they will get a taste of what is it like to stand to stand all day in the sweltering sun with no shelter or water and what is really like to pull heavy carriages up and down the steep streets of the Valletta.

Galea. L

Jul 23rd 2009, 16:39

A.Zahra
I shall be my self whether positive and negative whenever and wherever the peoples bread and tradition are involved Zahra whether you like it or not. Is not what I wrote the truth? Oh I forgot that truth hurts Zahra.
If the karozzini owners are not up to standard, lack education or do not have the proper facilities then by all means they should be regulated, educated and provided with the proper facilities and not simply discarded. Other places do have their own versions of our karozzin and are very proud about them, so why shouldn't we?

jimmy vella

Jul 23rd 2009, 15:04

they should be banned from everywhere The KARROZIN serves no purpose in this day and age it`s no fun being on a ride on one of these carts they harm Malta image as a developed country and the owners aren`t exactly the most caring animal lovers.

Bernard Mamo

Jul 23rd 2009, 14:53

@ Marie Galea

"Are the Maltese horses different than those horses that are used in London on the H.M.parades,don`t they leave horsecrap and flies too."

lol. in London's HM parades they have people employed specifically to pick up horse crap after the parade, and those horses are groomed and kept better than me and you probably! get your facts first.

Simon J. Aquilina

Jul 23rd 2009, 14:34

All that is needed is for the activity of these people to be regulated. Give these 'karozzini' proper headquarters and define standards that they would have to follow - these 'karozzini' can be turned into a land mark for our capital city if well managed!

Paul Xuereb

Jul 23rd 2009, 14:26

recently - at city gate - i heard one of these thugs hurling violent abuse to a olderly tourist couple who refused to pay 100 euros for a ride around valletta. His fat tummied friends laughed at it as if it were the correct thing to do. Everyone was shocked.

Frankly any measure to remove this dirty, slow 'traditional' transport together with the bullish attitudes are welcome, and i doubt will be missed.

As for their breadwinning, i'm sure they could do the job of a taxi driver - they already have the prerequisates.

smifsud

Jul 23rd 2009, 13:57

@John Griffen
yes you are so right sir ..we need the Karrozin , its part of Malta.s culture and history ...i do however also agree that they should be regulated and policy , standards to be set for the horses and a location for these horses to rest and fed waterd and rotated and set limits to how long a horse can work just like humans ....and to add more to regulate the price for a ride and to post licences on the Karrozin itself that proves its meeting all regulations .

Franco Farrugia

Jul 23rd 2009, 13:27

For those few who stand up in support of karozzini, let me just ask them whether they have ever had a traffic accident involving a karozzin. Then, maybe, they will sing a different tune.
Karozzini have had a very privileged life, and for ages, too. They are not made to have proper insurance cover on the road, in the same way that the rest of us, common mortals, are made to have.
Karozzini owners do what they like - the streets belong to them and there is no regulatory authority above them. And don't believe all that nonsense about livelihood and other crap: they make a huge profit during tourist season and they are allowed to get away without having to issue VAT receipts.
It is true - karozzini are part of the Maltese tradition. But when one considers the harshness with which some of them treat their horses, I wouldn't mind seeing the end of them, anyway.

Bill Millam

Jul 23rd 2009, 13:23

Perhaps PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) might want to have a look at this matter.

Bill Millam
Los Angeles

D. Xuereb

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:43

What about the fact that tourists are irritated with their 'adverstising' attitude?! Go to MCC and see by yourself whether a tourist can pass by without being asked for a ride.

Charlotte Gregory

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:38

Guys, as much as I agree with you that it is animal crueltly leaving those poor horses in the sun I think that we have to see the bigger picture. Every European City that I have been too try and keep their traditions and the Karozzin is a Maltese tradition. Why don't we think of a solution for everyone. I think that moving the Karozzin stand from the square is a good idea, these maybe can be placed just before the entrance to Valletta like they are at Mdina, this way they could be provided with the necessary shade, water food etc. Also another idea to safeguard the horses is that in summer they work in the evening. I think that with a bit of thought it would be very pleasant to have a carriage ride in the summer evenings after a play or a beautiful evening meal. We need to think of ways to liven up Valletta whilst giving a unique experience to the tourists. We have such a beautiful city and yet we are not using its full potential.

DVella

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:31

So hopefully now we might FINALLY have a city that doesn't stink of horse droppings!!! The disgust of having to drive at a snail's pace behind a horse drawn cab with the animal defecating before us has to be experienced to be believed!! The operators have had several opportunities to clean up their act, if they are uncivilised and just think in terms of their income then it's nobody's fault but their own!!

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:31

Karozzoni are indeed in need of proper regulation suitable shelter and regular sanitary inspections, but for people to comment that "Karozzini are so unnecessary" only goes to show the importance people give to the few traditional attractions Malta has to offer to the tourist.

Horse drawn carriages are a tourist attraction all over the world, not just in Malta. It is the fact that our local ones are unregulated that should bother us. Yet again, it is up to the authorities to see that this does not happen. As usual the same apathy applies. No different to our, buses, taxis, mini vans etc. Government should wake up to these realities before it is too late.

Can we honestly afford to lose the few remaining reminders of our forefathers means of transport.

Those commenting against the retention of Karozzini should indeed be ashamed of themselves. Horse excrement, smells and flies are as obnoxious as your comments. All easily removed if there is a will.

A.Zahra

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:30

The stench they surround themselves with in the Palace Square is a disgrace. When my wife brought it to their attention a few week ago they responded with insulting remarks. Others tried taking the mickey out of her. Well done ADT.

@Galea L. As usual, you are being your usual negative self.

Simon Zammit

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:29

Here in Malta, everyone is a bully. Everyone wants but when comes to giving, zero!
Ok, lets say that the horses can stay in the square, what will the cab owners give in return? There should always be a compromise. Maybe change the wheels, erect a better canopy for the horses, install a barrier to protect passers by from the horses, water and drain supply for their urine...and who shall pay for all this? ADT? What about the hawkers at the entrance of Valletta. Should they stay there when the new entrance is built? What about the poor parker at Freedom square? I am really eager to read the comments for all this!

ALBERT FENECH

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:27

They are an eye-sore and should be removed entirely from Palace Square and re-located somewhere outside Valletta. Besides the smell of horse urine, horse dung, flies and general unkempt appearance of the area, the cabbies themselves are mostly vulgar, uncouth, unkempt and pepper their normal conversational language with oaths and swear-words. Some years back I even saw a cabbie urinating against the Palace wall at right angle with the square. If all these can be classed as a "tourist attraction" then all I can say is that Malta's visiting tourists are very easily pleased!

c gatt

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:18

I think we are going to see a lot of horse meat on the market soon, sad to say. These animals are not held as pets, and some of their owners treat their cars better. As to it being their main form of income. I'm not to sure. I know that some of them have government jobs ( usually watchmen), but they'll try playing the bleeding heart card anyway

John Griffin

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:17

YES:
We need to protect part of Maltese culture and retain the Karozzini.
We need to be firm and do what is right for Malta and it's Capital.

NO:
We shouldn't allow horse reminants all over Valletta, what has come of the bibs that were introduced only to be abandoned by the cabbies who do as they please.
We shouldn't allow ill mannered and scruffily dressed cabbies
We shouldn't allow steel wheels to ruin our heritage

Ryan Bugeja

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:16

Before Karozzini fight for their business, I'd rather have them clean when their horses ease their digestive system on the roads (especially Great Siege Road (the ring road) in Valletta). It's a disgusting mess every morning. And on such dry days, it takes just a bit of wind to have bits and pieces flying in your face... yes... it does happen.
On the other hand, I think a compromise should be met as livelihoods are livelihoods and nobody likes to have his/her job taken away. In Mdina 'karozzini' have rubber around wheels... so why not in Valletta?

@Stephanie Calleja...
"What countryside?!" is the question...

Etienne Bonanno

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:14

I wouldn't like to deny the karozzini owners their livelihood, however they do have to realise the inconvenience they cause to many Maltese people who frequent the city regulary. I often have to drive along the Beltissebh road leading to Fort St. Elmo, and apart from the horse droppings all over the road, there are often traffic jams caused by karozzini clopping along at a snails pace while the oblivious tourists enjoy the view of Marsamxett harbour.

This road is very winding and narrow and it is already dangerous as it is (as a recent fatal accident attests). When cars are trying to overtake a karozzin it becomes even more dangerous.

Marie Grima

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:11

Oh what a load of crap,the Karozzin owners will be asked to put ADIDAS or Nike horse shoes next so no horse shoes marks are left stamped on the streets.

Are the Maltese horses different than those horses that are used in London on the H.M.parades,don`t they leave horsecrap and flies too.

James Green

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:06

Is the ADT putting the cart before the horse?
Live and let live.
The ADT should be addressing the perenial problem of horse poo all around Valletta.
It stinks, creates a shabby image, is unhealty, and is of considerable danger to bikers.

J Farrugia

Jul 23rd 2009, 12:06

we've had enough of these irresponsible karrozzini. They completely ignore traffic regulations, ignore red lights, the stench we have to put up with near the Barrakka gardens. The dirt and urine they leave behind without even bothering to clean the mess their horses make. Tourists being fleeced by these bullies, who even want to defy laws and regulations. ADT Keep firm and remove those who do not have a licence to operate. Let's see them off our Valletta roads. If anyone want to right in these bullies' defence leet him come to the Upper Barrakka gardens this week and feel the stench of horse urine and the mess they are making for our visiting tourists. When we called the ADT to report this matter they told us that they place Signs for karrozzini wherever they want. Now the AADT is seeing the light. Keep them off our roads. Most of them are just louts without a licence.

Karl Consiglio

Jul 23rd 2009, 11:58

Who on earth do they think they are? I mean these Karozzini are so unnecessary.

Stephanie Calleja

Jul 23rd 2009, 11:56

"The ADT’s excuse , they said, was that the carriage wheels were damaging the paving and that the carriages were bothering passers."

What about those poor horses suffering that whole time in the scorching sun!!!! Horses should not be kept like that..their home is in the countryside!

G. Fenech

Jul 23rd 2009, 11:47

I think that as much as i dislike the horse drawn carriages, they have a point when they say that their business is from people inside the city. But i also think that changing the edge of the wheels from steel to rubber would greatly improve road conditions. The constant passing of the flat steel rimmed wheels act like a steamroller on the already hopeless tarmac we have surrounding Valletta. If they were rubber, then they wouldn't keep on flattening the street surface making it terribly dangerous for drivers or people riding a bike.

M. Vella

Jul 23rd 2009, 11:46

Whilst one appreciates that these have a business and is probably their only way of getting an income has anyone thought of the poor horses who have to either wait standing, most of them in the sun, for hours only to pick up some fat tourist later on in the appalling afternoon sun?

Has anyone given a thought about these animals' welfare? I have seen many karozzini (horse and carriage) left in the sun while the owner is drinking a cold beer in the shade.

SHAME SHAME SHAME - These forms of transport should be abolished.

Galea. L

Jul 23rd 2009, 11:39

Those running the ADT are paid thousands of euros to deny others their living in order to justify their fabulous salaries.
No wonder everyone considers ADT as another runaway authority which is causing havoc to citizens with its irresponsible decisions, not to mention the corruption that has surfaced with respect to the issuing of driving licenses.

Peter Borg

Jul 23rd 2009, 11:37

I think the owners dont know the smell that the horses leave in the square! Its disgusting to leave a mess and a bad adour in a square like that!! Its a Shame! Please remove from the square. I never saw karozzini in any squares around in Spain or any other cities.

J Oatmon

Jul 23rd 2009, 11:37

No mention of the horsecrap and flies, or the rip offs for tourists and tourist complaints, because these guys are unregulated?

There are two sides (sometimes more) to every argument.