Reasons to remove the George Cross from the flag

J. Falzon

Sep 27th 2009, 06:43

Whether Operation Pedestal was a Success or Failure is irrelevant
The point is that the MALTESE CROSS should be on the MALTESE Flag, not the BRITISH George Cross
Personally, I agree with Paul Calleja

Patrick Camilleri

Jul 11th 2009, 19:17

@Mr. Flynn:
As regards Operation Pedestal you are missing the point. The objective was to bring supplies to Malta and it did. It brought enough to keep the island going. In that sense it was a victory.

Sometimes in a battle it is not the one who suffers the greatest losses who loses.

The same happened at the Battle of Jutland. The British lost more ships .... but the German fleet was the one that actually lost because it never dared face the Grand Fleet again.

Patrick

William P Flynn

Jul 11th 2009, 02:20

MrCamilleri, I don't relish telling you this historical truth.

OperationPedestal entered the Straits of Gibraltar formidably armed escorting 15supply ships-destination Malta. Axis attacked and forced OperationPedestal back battered and limping with these losses :

1 aircraft carrier sunk; 1 aircraft carrier damaged out of 4 aircraft carriers.
2 light cruisers sunk, 2 light cruisers damaged out of 7 cruisers.
1 destroyer sunk, out of 32 destroyers.
9 merchantships sunk, 5 others damaged out of 14 merchantships.

Axis losses were two damaged cruisers, two sunk and one damaged sub.

In boxing parlance OperationPedestal threw in the towel in the second round.

Clearly even the greatest British naval armada in history couldn't make it past Cape Bon; turned back,incidentally,by a much smaller Italian Naval Force but with superior,land-based, air-support.

I repeat: That the British prevented an Axis invasion of Malta or that they "saved" Malta is a myth.
Truth is our Rock saved them; and us. The British account with Malta remains forever hopelessly overdrawn.

Countrymen, our White and Red, above all medals and decorations, owes neither space nor homage to anyone or anything.

I trust this helps MrCamilleri and others evaluate the GC occupation on our Flag differently.

Patrick Camilleri

Jul 10th 2009, 17:06

@William Flynn. This is the first time I've heard Operation Pedestal being called a defeat! It suffered massive losses yes ......but no one has ever defined it as a defeat! Patrick

P.Zammit

Jul 10th 2009, 12:50

W.Vella Zarb

Man, your cricles must be very restricted to a couple of old timers moaning dawn and dusk. I am a middle aged person, who still enjoys life, goes out and mingles with society in general. My work brings me with professional people of all groups.

By the way, faqawni l-gazzetti jgibu headlines kull darba fuq l-GC tal-bandira. Anka l-parlament xeba jiddiskutu fuqha! Come on - loose an argument like a man.

It is only the odd Maltese person who has been away from these shores for something like a life and a couple more here in Malta who write a letter here and there. Can assure you that divorce is more of a topical issue here in Malta than the GC is - and if you don't agree with that - well - keep dreaming.

Galea L
I know what you are trying to say - however its an award, not a reminder of colonial power - I have very good arguments I could write here, that had we not been a colony - we would have been a colony of Germany from early WW2 (or French speaking!) which do you like best ? G.C. is better, no?

AnnMarie Pawley

Jul 10th 2009, 09:35

Maybe we could replace the GC with a picture of a crater - to represent our roads. That would be a good reflection of Malta! :D

Willim P Flynn

Jul 10th 2009, 07:15

@MarkMifsudBonnici

The non-sequiturs and lack of clear thinking in the GC/Flag argument are mind numbing.

It wasn't the British who stopped the WWII Axis from invading Malta; it was that barren rock under your feet. Crete, Singapore, Burma, Dunkirk were all defended by British troops and they all fell miserably.

The Axis believed (wrongly as it turned out) it was more expedient and economical to bomb Malta into military ineffectiveness and navigate above and around it.

The superiority of the Axis and their ability to invade Malta at the time is clearly shown in the massive defeat with huge losses inflicted on Operation Pedestal which was the largest British naval armada ever assembled.
The reason Operation Pedestal didn’t reach Malta was because of the Axis naval and air superiority. And if they could turn back the largest British Armada of all time, who/what would have stopped them invading Malta?

The Maltese are neither Jewish nor Gypsies, and as Reichsfuhrer Heinrich Himmler and half his SS were Catholic, the Maltese would likely have been safe. After all the SS didn’t go about burning Sicilians did they?

You might care to reconsider, Mr Mifsud-Bonnici, not Mr Calleja.

William P Flynn

Jul 10th 2009, 05:18

@Gianninu Saliba

"Status quo"? Which status quo? The nine hundred odd year old Flag status quo or the status quo of the defaced Flag starting in 1964?

The answer is there for those who want to see.

patrick camilleri

Jul 10th 2009, 00:01

@wally vella-zarb

Perhaps the procedure was wrong ..........I'm willing to grant you that ...... but a brilliant idea is a brilliant idea .....wherever it comes from.

Anyway, lets face it, the Maltese always protested when they felt strongly about something ....... the fact that they didn't when the cross was added to the flag speaks volumes.

Part of growning up and feeling secure in your own identity is being able to appreciate a good idea when you see it. There is absolutely no need to feel threatened just because it was a foreigner who came up with the good idea.

Patrick

Galea. L

Jul 9th 2009, 23:51

W Spencer
Anti-colonialist whoever they may be Spencer.

Antoinette Mascari "Maltese have been successful because of our history, our heritage and the English language,"
Successful because of the English language? Do you mean that the Maltese were never successful before they learned the English language? How pathetic can you get Antoinette?

clare spiteri
It was only their DUTY to give your grandmother a pension clare. Your grandfather DIED for them for God's sake. Never felt repressed? Did you know how the British Government, and please note that I make a distinction from the British people, discharged workers when they no longer served its needs and didn't care whether their families could eat or not? Do you know what the Maltese people went through after WWI which led to the 1919 7 June disturbances and the SHOOTING of 4 MALTESE CITIZENS by the COLONIALIST power? Did you know what the people went through in the 1950's and early 1960's? God save the queen? She's not our Head of State, she's a foreigner. How can you be so lackey clare?

P.Zammit
It is only a reminder of a colonial power. At least Count Roger did not colonize Malta.

William P Flynn

Jul 9th 2009, 23:33

@GianninuSaliba

And what Flag flew in Malta for nearly the thousand years that Maltese longed for independence?

@ClareSpiteri

If you live long enough you will see everything. I never saw anyone, anywhere in the world "bless the British" occupation; quite the contrary.

I have read the Maltese version of the Constitution and Wally Vella Zarb appears to be correct that to remove the GC from the Flag requires no more than a majority vote in parliament.

It beggars belief that for the Maltese to change anything on the Flag, the Constitution requires the Maltese people to have Parliamentary debate and vote; yet we allow the hoisting of the National Colours every day which were defaced by a non-Maltese person with a foreign emblem, with no debate, vote, explanation, permission, request, notice, or involvement of a single Maltese person.

People who have the intelligence to discern and understand the Flag is a different and separate issue to a medal should start writing to their elected members.

Those who can't, or believe the GC represents their patron saint or Mr Gorg Borg Olivier may continue to entertain us with their comedy.

wally vella-zarb

Jul 9th 2009, 22:09

P Zammit
"This subject is never a matter of topical discussion here in Malta "

Oh really? How wrong you are! Perhaps you move around in circles where some people here feel more British than the queen of England. These include persons from both sides of the political divide. Likewise there is another section of the population, again from BOTH sides of the political divide, who are daring to see things for what they are. People who do not feel inferior to any foreigner, people who are truly proud of being Maltese and who did not grow up in an atmosphere where an ordinary sailor or soldier expected to be called 'Sir!' , maybe even saluted, as if some superior being.

Far from being a miniscule minority, this section is steadily growing, faster than you can imagine!

I don't know how old you are, my friend, but this has nothing to do with 'Mintoff' or 'anti-brits' or any other figment of your imagination. Just remember that, when the Constitution was drawn up, our politicians could easily have entrenched the George Cross as a permanent part of OUR flag. They chose NOT to. Ever wondered why?

joseph cachia

Jul 9th 2009, 21:58

A VERY WELL PLACED COMMENT FROM A TRUE BLOODED MALTESE living in AUSTRALIA.
The G.C. was awarded to all MALTESE citiziens (i.e. population app. 349000), for bravery. (in
protesting to the British Government on it's desicion to offer MALTA to Italy for a safe passage to British forces out of MALTA.)
A boy of 15 saving his brother from house fire was awarded the G.C. in 1952. One person was in the eyes of the B.G as equivalent to third of million MALTESE, their lost relatives the
suffering and the LOSS of HISTORICAL buildings.
The recent GC award was bestowed on Capt. Peter Norton for bravery actions in IRAQ, murdering innocents.
The GC MALTA brought with it a substantial DOWRY = £100 sterling per annum, as payment
for ALL suffering and loss of KIN.

P.Zammit

Jul 9th 2009, 19:55

W.Vella Zarb
To each his own belief. The flag was given to us by count-roger - no proof, just tradition ? well could be - but traditions stem from somewhere. On the other hand you have no proof whatsoever to the contrary-not even some kind of tradition that says otherwise, right ?

Not even during 16 years of Mintoff/Zero, well know anti Brits they didn't dare remove the GC from our beloved flag because they knew they would face the wrath of the Maltese people (assure it was no fear of the Brits! but the Maltese) This subject is never a matter of topical discussion here in Malta because the Maltese are united; white and red with the GC on it. Countless generations know the flag as it is and would die and DEFEND it as it is.

How can Maltese citizens or other, who have left these shores for probably over 30 years come tell the Maltese who live here every day what to do with our flag ? Care for your own union Jack good day mate Aussie flag and we'll take extreme care of ours. Assure you, it's only the ultra minority who agree with you, here.

Gianninu Saliba

Jul 9th 2009, 19:45

Mr. Flynn must understand that when I said "Leave our flag alone" I meant nothing else but to retain the status quo. Now, to upset all the socialists, I declare that I do not want the George Cross there because it was given to us by Britain. I never was pro- British or in favour of integration with Britain for that matter. I want the George Cross there to remind one and all that it was GEORGE Borg Olivier who attained our independence. Yes, every time I see the Maltese flag and notice the George Cross I thank God that we had such a great statesman, who managed to obtain for us what our forefathers desired for some two thousand years... freedom. They longed for recognition as an independent state by all the world. They wanted more than anything else dignity, the dignity which until 21 September 1964 we were deprived off. Thank you, George for giving us (except for those who wanted integration with Britain) what we always wanted . Your name is enshrined in our flag.

clare spiteri

Jul 9th 2009, 19:26

So many people with so many chips on their shoulders.Study your history, and get your facts right.I am proud that we were awarded the George cross ,the highest you can give to civilians. My grandfather died in the war, and my grandmother who was left with 3 children was given a pension and supported for the rest of her life my the british.Repressed?I have never felt repressed in my life. On the contrary I look back to when the british were based here, as the most secure and the most pleasant period of my life.Second class citizens ?where on earth were you living,surely not in Malta?I bless the british every day of my life.GOD SAVE THE QUEEN>

wally vella-zarb

Jul 9th 2009, 17:15

@ Patrick Camilleri

"Let's be clear.... I'm not talking about the fact that the GC is part of our flag .... but the fact that some misguided people actually advocate removing it!

They really need to appreciate exactly WHY that award for gallantry was bestowed upon the civilian population."

I suggest that it is you who are not 'seeing the wood' insomuch as you are missing the point entirely. Nobody is questioning the gallantry of our ancestors or what they had to endure as 'British Subjects' - in all senses of the word 'subject', BTW.

The award of the medal was, at best, a sign of British 'gratitude' to people who were, at the end of the day, arguably treated as second-class citizens in their own country. On the other hand, placing it on the Maltese Flag was nothing less than the rape of our National Colours by an unauthorised British soldier. THAT is the point that you are missing.

The George Cross, for better or for worse, is a part of our history and ought not to be forgotten. However, by no stretch of rationale should it have a place on our sacred colours.

Patrick Camilleri

Jul 9th 2009, 16:58

@ George Caruana:

I DO.

@ Anthony Magri

Perhaps if the GC remains on the flag to remind everyone of the horrors of war there will never be the need to add any more such symbols on our flag and hence the problem you fear won't arise.

It is only if the cross removed that people will forget .......and we could find history repeating itself!

@Joseph Vella:
" .....superior racial attitudes towards the “lesser” Maltese, ............"

Those days have gone for good. One has no reason to feel "inferior" to anyone today. It's time people stopped feeling so insecure about themselves and moved on.

Patrick

Joseph Vella

Jul 9th 2009, 16:35

Thank you Mr. Paul Calleja and Mr. William P. Flynn for your steadfast determination to rid Malta of the GC from Malta’s flag, a symbol of British colonial repression that is unbecoming for a proud independent European nation.

The argument for or against its removal should be predicated on a single issue, which concerns the illegal act by Lord Gort, the WWII Governor General to unilaterally rob Malta of its true colors, as a cheap expedient way to reward the Maltese for their alleged bravery under Axis enemy fire.

The flag as it now stands should be ratified by referendum, as a means by which to place aside this contentious issue for all times. Be such the case, the final choice should not take into account the merit of bravery, for which the GC medal is acknowledged, but should remain focused solely on a yes or no vote, as to which version of our flag represents our true Maltese identity and pride, as a free people and a nation where the choice of the majority is respected.

As a survivor of WWII and demeaned victim of overbearing British superior racial attitudes towards the “lesser” Maltese, I believe democracy should prevail.

George Caruana

Jul 9th 2009, 16:12

Who cares!!

Anthony Magri

Jul 9th 2009, 16:05

For the sake of history. The first time the George Cross was mentioned in connection with Malta's Flag was in Parliament by none other than Neric Mizzi, who said it should not be a part of the flag per se but a part of the flag as a decoration.
Hope in some years time, say hundred etc no further decoration is bestowed on Malta so that the white will still remain mostly white. The future! Have people considered the future, not recent but far away future.What was once done could be repeated some day in the future. And what will happen to the white ?This is only said to illustrate what can possibly happen in the unforseen future, unless time will come to change the flag like it happened in other countries such as Russia.

c. camilleri

Jul 9th 2009, 15:30

Paul writing something in the Australian papers about the many ills down under will be less waste of time and effort.

Antoinette Mascari

Jul 9th 2009, 14:50

If Paul Calleja is such a patriott of the Maltese Heritage can he tell us why did he accept an Australian Honour? Or did he accept the nomination beacuse he did not want to break the hearts of his nominees? If he is so passionate about what is Maltese he should re asses his history knowledge, then why is he living in a country which is also known as a British relative to UK? If Maltese did not have the command of English none of them would have done so well in a froeign country like Australia or other countries. Maltese have been successful because of our history, our heritage and the Englsih language, no one can take the fact away that History can never be changed. Paul Calleja must read the history of Malta about the convoy and compare the times with those in the 15th/16th Centuries. What would have happened from our beloved MOTHERLAND and its' NATION if the history of the 15th/16th Centuries took a different turn? Did he mention his opinioin to the Hon Malta PM when he was visiting Australia??: Did he complain to Kevin Rudd about the Union Jack in the Australian flag. MISKIN!

William P Flynn

Jul 9th 2009, 14:47

@GianninuSaliba

Can't you see that MrCalleja is saying exactly what you're saying? To leave our Flag alone?

All of us wanting the restitution of our flag are trying to undo the actions of a foreigner who DIDN'T leave our Flag alone.

Patrick Camilleri

Jul 9th 2009, 14:36

There are few issues that upset me as much as this one.

Let's be clear.... I'm not talking about the fact that the GC is part of our flag .... but the fact that some misguided people actually advocate removing it!

They really need to appreciate exactly WHY that award for gallantry was bestowed upon the civilian population.

If you'll pardon the mixed metaphors ......they clearly can't see the wood for the chip on their shoulders!

Patrick

jnebejer

Jul 9th 2009, 14:31

i believe one can ad that, since Britain did not consider officially the Maltese flag as being the white and red at the time of the II WW then the decision to place that decoration could not have been the Britsh authority's prerogative.

The question re- Count Roger and the colours is a legend, probably unfounded.
The only fact is that the Universita' of Mdina, which was the representative of Maltese authority adopted the colours as it's symbol. Which is quite different from choosing to place own's own decoration on somebody else's colours.

Now were the Maltese authorities of the time ever consulted on the matter / no. Did the populance want it? probably yes -but no authority then risked giving a hint of respect in going asking for consensus even if symbolically. Those were war years, one has to understand, but then was it always that way since 1800 to allow the rights to the Maltese ever promised but never allowed?

William P Flynn

Jul 9th 2009, 14:23

@MrVassallo

Yes I've been writing for a long time about the defacement of our flag and its restitution.But I've never made a more convincing statement to intelligent Maltese than your comment today. More!

@MrGatt

The war dead didn't die for the British. They wouldn't recognize the GC Flag. The GC flag disgraces the Maltese heroes of all time, who never saw, chose or wanted it.
Judging by my name? Who's confused?

@WSpencer

What flag we use is not your business. This all started because an Englishman thought it was.

@NigelLawrence

I know Maltese history. I also know what "given" and "defaced" mean and how they differ. Do you?

@GrahamWitten

The George Cross warrant states that it may be awarded to military personnel for gallant conduct which is not in the face of the enemy. In this sense the VC is the highest military medal and the GC second.

First second or last, it doesn't belong on the Flag of the Maltese Republic.

J Martinelli

Jul 9th 2009, 14:08

Paul Calleja has been waltzing to Matilda and got a bit tizzy.

He does not even know that the George Cross is NOT a military medal but an honour to civilians for valour!

We proudly display the award which was never awarded to a whole nation for bravery which will long be famous in history.

He pointed out that the medal has been awarded to more than 100 individuals, but he forgot that it had been awarded to all Maltese and their successors since we all descend from our forefathers who toiled under extreme conditions, lost or risked their lives and almost starved to death in order to preserve our liberty and escape the jaws of Nazism.

wally vella-zarb

Jul 9th 2009, 13:34

"The Communists tried to ' air brush ' out all they did not like, and ended up with numerous dysfunctual Countries whose people have an identity crisis !!! "

W Spencer, are you implying that the removal of the George Cross from OUR flag would cause US an identity crisis???

If you are, then you are either a professional joke-writer or, more likely, an arrogant and pompous Britisher who is still living in the faded, tatty, memories of empire when Britain seriously believed that it was God's gift to mankind!

As you say, "move on sunshine!" :-)

John Samut-Tagliaferro

Jul 9th 2009, 13:34

@Paul Calleja. Your lack of knowledge about the George Cross does not lend credence to your opinion about it.

wally vella-zarb

Jul 9th 2009, 13:09

Time to clear some misconceptions:

(1) To claim that the original Maltese flag, composed of two vertical stripes, one white and one red, was given to us by a foreigner is not entirely correct. It is based purely and simply on popular tradition and there is no documentation to support it. That tradition survived for several centuries, long before the British occupation.

(2) Contrary to popular perception, the George Cross is NOT entrenched in the Constitution! Article 3(1) defines the National Flag as having two vertical stripes, white and red, as described above. Article 3(2) then adds the depiction of the George Cross.

Was this a coincidence, an oversight or an afterthought?

I think NOT, because when it comes to changing the Constitution, the rules are very clear. A change in Article 3(1) requires an absolute majority, defined as two thirds of the House of Representatives , as laid down in Article 66(2)(b).

HOWEVER, for a change in Article 3(2), to remove the George Cross, this is not required! A simple majority of the Members of Parliament would be enough; Article 66(5) is crystal clear on this matter.

Politicians, Guts or Votes?

T. Grima

Jul 9th 2009, 12:47

Shame on you Mr Paul Calleja from Perth. It is strange how you take this line of thinking, forgetting the real facts of history and what our forefathers achieved with their sheer determination and gallantry.

Years ago, whilst working in Australia, I used to be really proud with the comments of my fellow workmen, mostly Australians, and their admiration to the heroics of this small island nation during the second World War.

It's a pity you conveniently forsake all this, and prefer to send this highest decoration to the background.

K.Vassallo

Jul 9th 2009, 12:30

Paul Calleja-Perth Australia.

The letter coming from someone living in a country whose flag includes the British flag on it. (Isn't that worse ?) or even worse - whose head of state is the Queen of another country?

Oh by the way - I know this has been brought up many times - but what face have you to state that the GC is foreign but not mention that the flag itself is foreign ? Just because one is 60 or so years old and the other 1000 does not make a difference - right ? Or it does where it suits you ? Your logic is a very confusing.

Shall we remove the GC from the flag because Mr. Calleja said so and Flynn has been at it ad nausea. Shall we go along and redesign the colours as well, so the flag will be truely Maltese ? Shall we remove any foreign sounding words in our language while there? I mean futbal reminds me so much of England, Caw reminds me so much of Italy, Wiehed, tnejn, tlieta reminds me so much of Arab speaking countries, Bongu of France and so on...and all this in our national language.

Tony Gatt

Jul 9th 2009, 12:14

Judging by his name, I rather think Mr. Flynn is confusing Malta's history with that of the Irish Republic (where I lived for 25 years).
The Maltese did not have an Oliver Cromwell sent over by the British- they collaborated with them to stop it (Malta) being handed back over to the knights.
As I lost both my parents and a sister during the war I find this talk of colonialism rather pointless.

W Spencer

Jul 9th 2009, 12:11

@ Galea L ..................pathetic anti - British comment as usual.

So what flag are you proposing, as you cannot use Red & White as that was given by a Foreign Country, you cannot use the George Cross as that was awarded by a Foreign Country, and you cannot us the Maltese Cross as that was given by a Foreign Country.

Blaming Colonialism for anything after 50 / 60 years has passed, is " living in the past " move on sunshine !!

The Communists tried to ' air brush ' out all they did not like, and ended up with numerous dysfunctual Countries whose people have an identity crisis !!!

Nigel Lawrence

Jul 9th 2009, 12:10

@William P Flynn--

IF you care to check Maltese history, you will find the "Maltese flag" was given to the Maltese, by a foreigner. The flag has NEVER been a Maltese design.

Gianninu Saliba

Jul 9th 2009, 11:57

Mr. Calleja, please leave the Maltese flag alone, we are proud of our flag and our country. May I suggest that you write in the Australian newspapers advocating that they should take the Union Jack out of their flag. I promise you, you will have my support on that.

J Farrugia

Jul 9th 2009, 11:56

please MR Callejja we are happy with the GC. no peter Calleja from Perth will ever ever remove our GC even if it means nothing to you and the likes of you. The George Cross is there to stay. this is a closed subject and only the Constitution can remove the GC from our national flag. So enjoy it from down under.

Graham Witton

Jul 9th 2009, 11:41

I reply to Mr Paul Calleilas letter from Australia regarding the George Cross on the Maltese flag. I would like to correct his misconception. The G.C. is not Britains second military medal. In fact it is not a military award. The G.C. is a civilan medal and is equel to the Victoria Cross which is the military equivilant. To be awarded either of these awards is a great honour and something to be proud of. This is a great part of Maltese history and even though it is a British medal it was the bravery of the Maltese people who won it. The fact that very few of these have been awarded should be a great reason for pride.

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Jul 9th 2009, 11:25

PaulCalleja

Has it ever occurred to you that had it not been for Britain defending Malta during WW2 the likelihood of Malta being occupied by the Axis forces would have been a certainty.

Judging by the persecution of Jews, Gypsies and any other race not to the Nazi's liking, the possibility of Maltese being treated similarly was a very strong possibility.

Would you rather have mass graves and concentration camps in Malta as a reminder of the War or The George Cross?

You might want to reconsider your suggestion after all!!!

William P Flynn

Jul 9th 2009, 10:54

Thank you Mr Calleja for adding your voice to this very important drive to restore our Mother Flag which united and represented the Maltese nation for so many centuries on their march to freedom; but which unfortunatehhly our so-called leaders left outside Freedom's Gate when the Maltese Consitution was framed, and opted for the "painted one".

That it was painted on by a foreigner adds to the disgrace.

In typical Britsh Colonial fashion, they gave us a medal with the right hand and took our flag with the left hand. That we accepted the defacement of our Flag while the boot was on our throat was understandable; that we continue to do so is unacceptable.

Galea. L

Jul 9th 2009, 10:48

Totally agree with you.
It's a remnant of British colonialism.

D. Scerri

Jul 9th 2009, 10:32

"To have a symbol of a foreign country on the Maltese flag, no matter how high that country is regarded, suggests to the world that the Maltese have nothing of their own to adequately represent them on their flag."

Once again, more hot air from those who, sadly, know so little of their own history.

Even the red and white of the Maltese flag was presented to the Maltese by Count Roger the Norman. As much a foreign invader as the British.

And the George Cross is Great Britain's highest civilian decoration, not a military honour. It's not given out to placate people, it is awarded for gallantry not in the face of the enemy.

Those who earned the GC can be justifiably proud.

T. Grima

Jul 9th 2009, 10:19

Oh no. There we go again.....!!!!