Gozo Curia walls vandalised with allegations on bishop

Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Jun 17th 2009, 03:23

Are you still depicting everything in terms of Priotestantism versus Roman Catholicism? I may be an agnostic but what is all this about "sola scrittura". The bible we hold in our hands is a copy of a copy of a copy and a translation of a translation of a translation ... hardly the word of God. And a demoniac God at times. Personally I prefer to embrace the genuine love of two men and two women than all this nonsense of God becoming man, being born of a virgin, rising from the dead in three days and ascending into heaven body and soul. So unnatural. While I denounce cowardly and anonymous attacks on anyone including Roman Catholic clerics, I am still curious as to what was said about the bishop. True, repeating it may be defamatory but speculation as to what was said can only harm his reputation.
Joseph Carmel Chetcuti

Charles Grixti

Jun 12th 2009, 22:03

@ Pierre Farrugia

And therein is the crux of the problem. I am not reading the 'right ones' books that is. By whose judgment are they right or wrong? The Roman Catholic Church’s perhaps?

I read all books and analyze what I read, every comment and opinion, then I use my God-given right to make my mind up as to who is telling the truth!

History has a habit of being written by the winning party and the Catholic Church sure had ample time to re-write it, having had absolute dominion over Europe for hundreds of years before its hegemony was ever challenged.

How about another lie concerning Constantine? I am referring to the famous or infamous "Donation of Constantine", which claims that Constantine gave to the Church of Rome the lands that had previously belonged to Roman Empire, effectively making every sovereign King in most of Europe subject to the bishop of Rome.

The “Donation” was conclusively proven to be a medieval forgery. By the way, the Vatican had a whole department dedicated to holy forgeries – why in medieval times there were enough pieces of the true cross of Christ around Europe to build a navy.

Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi

Jun 12th 2009, 13:34

@ Pierre Farrugia,

Timothy 3:16 explains that the entire Bible is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. Though this does not say that the Bible is the sole rule of faith, it is clear that it will thoroughly equip a person with faith which results in every good work. Thus, there is no need to find other books or people to give us a rule of faith for it has all been provided in the Bible. Furthermore the Bible warns against accepting rules taught by popes,men and gospels other than those preached in the Bible. (Mark 7:6-8; 2 Corinthians 11:4; Galations 1:6-9)
Many Maltese people have already left the Roman church without much fanfare and this is a continuing trend, a house is built a stone at a time.
All my adult children and their children are proud Protestants and there are many Maltese families in my church who are likewise.
The power base of the RCC in Malta is diminishing& will shrink even further in the next decades.
With the glorious Reformation, people are no longer sheep.

Pierre Farrugia

Jun 11th 2009, 23:46

Dear Mr Mizzi,

"If a doctrine cannot be found within the covers of the 66 books of the Bible, then it can be safely rejected, your salvation does not depend on it."

The Sola Scriptura doctrine is one such doctrine. Nowhere in the Bible will you find it explicitly saying that it is a rule of faith, let alone the SOLE rule of faith. The context of scripture clearly shows, that a Church was founded by Christ, which settled matters... a body of ministers who exercised Christ's authority, not to Lord it over the flock, but to serve as protectors of the one totally true faith.

I'm happy to report to you that Catholics are sticking to their bishops and that your fantastical longing that they're comin out of the Church in droves is to be pitied, coz you don't know what you're wishing if you wish the sheep to leave their shepherd. God help you. God be with you.

Peace

Pierre Farrugia

Jun 11th 2009, 23:41

Mr Grixti, I don't know what history books you're reading but they aren't the right ones. Have a look at this: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04295c.htm ... In this article, you'll run across this line...

"Constantine can rightfully claim the title of Great, for he turned the history of the world into a new course and made Christianity, which until then had suffered bloody persecution, the religion of the State. It is true that the deeper reasons for this change are to be found in the religious movement of the time, but these reasons were hardly imperative, as the Christians formed only a small portion of the population, being a fifth part in the West and the half of the population in a large section of the East. Constantine's decision depended less on general conditions than on a personal act; his personality, therefore, deserves careful consideration."

So read further... and see how off your comment about political expediency was, and how wrong you are about his conversion on this deathbed. Then come back and reason for heaven's sakes. Peace.

Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi

Jun 10th 2009, 03:16

@ Pierre Farrugia,

" Secondly, the sola scriptura doctrine protestants so illogically uphold (that the Bible is the sole rule of faith) is UNBIBLICAL. "


Sola scriptura teaches that the Scriptures are the sole infallible rule of faith for the Church. The doctrine does not say that there are not other, fallible, rules of faith, dogma, or even traditions, that we can refer to and even embrace. It does say, however, that the only infallible rule of faith is Scripture. This means that all other rules, whether we call them traditions, dogma, confessions of faith, creeds, or anything else, are by nature inferior to and subject to correction by, the Scriptures. The Bible is an ultimate authority, allowing no equal, nor superior, in tradition or church. It is so because it is theopneustos, God-breathed, and hence embodies the very speaking of God, and must, of necessity therefore be of the highest authority. So as you can see, your definition does not correspond well to the actual doctrine.”

Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi

Jun 9th 2009, 17:39

@ Pierre Farrugia,

Sola Scriptura can be defined as the Protestant principle that scripture alone is a sufficient teacher to gain salvation, and it, scripture, is the one ruler or standard by which any doctrine of the church should be judged. If a doctrine cannot be found within the covers of the 66 books of the Bible, then it can be safely rejected, your salvation does not depend on it.


So scripture, according to St. Augustine, is the supreme authority and reveals all truths we should know. That sounds about as good as any Protestant definition of Sola Scriptura and according to the Roman Catholic Church St. Augustine was not illogical.

As the great Martin Luther said, "a layman armed with scripture is better than any pope espousing his non scripture based dogma".

Charles Grixti

Jun 9th 2009, 00:42

Pierre, if you really knew your history, then you would know that Constantine himself was just a politician and there is no proof that he ever converted to Christianity. Some say that he did on his deathbed but it cannot be proven.

Constantine worship the god "Sol Invictus', which was the solar disc god of Mithraism, a pagan religion consisting mainly of the cult of the ancient Indo-Iranian Sun-god Mithra. This mystert cult was very popular with the Roman military.

Nevertheless, he convened the Council of Nicea as a political expedient to try and hold the crumbling Roman Empire together where it was decided to make Christianity the official new religion of the empire. Traditionally, it was Helen, his mother who went to seach for the true cross and was converted to Christianity.

Hence, the Roman Catholic Church is a direct descendant of the Roman Empire.

The Old Testment is the first 5 books or Pentatuech, of the Jewish Torah The New Testmant was pick and choose, as there are many more gospels than the traditional four ones.

Word of God or not, the Protestants observe a purer form of Christianity without additions that do not exist in the scriptures.

Pierre Farrugia

Jun 8th 2009, 20:37

Charles, I think if you delved a bit deeper into history you'd see that Constantine did not make Catholicism the official state religion for political expediency but because he himself was convinced of it's truth. Not only he, but his mother as well, who went to the Holy Land in search of the relics of Christ, such was their conviction that they had found the light. Secondly, the sola scriptura doctrine protestants so illogically uphold (that the Bible is the sole rule of faith) is UNBIBLICAL. The word of God is described, in the Bible,as being able to arm a person for the faith, that it is inspired, and that it is God's word, and not man's. But none of that is saying it is the SOLE rule of faith. In fact, Peter tells us none of it is to be read privately and needs an interpreter--an official interpreter. Secondly, ask a protestant how he knows the Bible is actually the word of God, and he/she won't be able to give you an intellectually satisfying response. The Church has the adequate answer. Follow the Shepherds CHRIST gave you, and u can't go wrong. Search and you WILL find! peace

Charles Grixti

Jun 7th 2009, 23:32

@Pierre Farrugia

2)

The Protestants consider the Bible the sole authority. Therefore salvation can be available for anyone who follows its teachings without the need of priestly hierarchy.

For centuries, Catholics were forbidden to read the bible, which was only printed in Latin. Only the Church interpreted it to the faithful and according to its own doctrine.. The first persons to translate the Bible in the vernacular of the people such as William Tyndale and Jan Hus were hounded across Europe by the Church and were eventually burned at the stake, for bringing the Bible to the masses.

I am neither a Catholic nor a Protestant, but this is historical fact.

Charles Grixti

Jun 7th 2009, 23:30

@ Pierre Farrugia

1)

The original Christians were just a Jewish sect, most of who remained in Palestine after Christ died. St. Paul is the one who took the message to the Gentiles, after a split with the rest of the Christians and he tailor made it to suit the tastes of the pagan Gentiles. Then Roman Emperor Constantine, for political expediency, took it over to make the new religion of the Roman Empire. Roman and pagan rituals and influences such the Mass (a symbolic blood sacrifice) and statues (explicitly forbidden in the Bible) can be seen in any Catholic church you care to visit. The Popes even took to themselves the title reserved for the High Priest of the Roman State Cult , Pontifex Maximus. This is why it is called the Roman Catholic Church and some Protestants would argue that it is not even a Christian faith.

Joe Fenech

Jun 7th 2009, 11:12

I do not condone any criminal acts, but neither do I condone the Gozitan and Maltese church attitude which is taking us back to the Middle Ages. Remember how much they lobbied in order to have that young man who wore a 'holy habit' in the Nadur Carnival arraigned. This was bad taste but not a crime! The church has is becoming more than ever a totalitarian movement which should not exist.

On top, the church pushes illegality by helping illegal immigrant (they went as far as to provide them with baby sitting while Maltese people are struggling!).

We are fed up of getting stick from a weak government and also from a medieval church!

Sandro Agius

Jun 6th 2009, 22:27

@Andrew Gatt, it means that you don't follow the church teachings or what exactly the church is. The church is not the hierarchy but every baptized person who follows the church teachings. The church are always the religious organisations which exists.

Andrew Gatt....do you know that this is just one case while you are forgetting the good things other do...what is wrong is wrong but you cannot take a case and place that in the front line to make solid your arguments...maybe you are one of those who criticise the church but then you stay cicci beqqi...That the church must speak more and more is true....but than don't come and tell that the church enters poltics...because whatever the church do is always criticized many times in an unfair way

Joe Zammit

Jun 6th 2009, 21:18

The Catholic Church has spoken loudly and will continue to enlighten us, following Christ's command, not suggestion. Although the Catholic Church is made up of sinners and saints, she will remain to be for ever the Mystical Body of Christ.

Priests are chosen by God for a specific mission that can be carried out only by them. Priests can be sinners or saints as well. By 'saint' here I mean 'living in God's grace'. Thank God, both in Malta and abroad, the percentage of priests who have caused scandal is minimal.

Notwithstanding this, the Church does not approve of any scandals given by her priests, the scandal being of any type it might be.

Kevin Pirotta

Jun 6th 2009, 20:11

@ Andrew Gatt. The Church like everything else around us is not perfect. Having said that, it remains without doubt, the fundamental basis of principles and ethics. The traditional family model also too, without doubt, remains the bastion of compassionate society and it is the dilution of this institution that society as a whole finds itself in the mess it is.

MG Buttigieg

Jun 6th 2009, 16:37

Rumours had been rife these last weeks about a major tug of war involving the Bishop and another entity. It was not exactly the external celebrations of the feast that was involved. The Bishop in his statement said that "the writings were related to decisions aimed at safeguarding the interest of the Church in Gozo." Might it be that somebody thought the cake was up for slicing?

Kevin Gregory

Jun 6th 2009, 15:38

It is unfortunate that people spoil, the walls of buildings. Need they want to say something, we have at our disposal other means of communication. I shan't go into the merits, but the church must also wake up to today's realities. After all the church rituals are older than they lead us to believe. What may you ask, example initiation (baptism) rites

Mark-Anthony Fenech

Jun 6th 2009, 15:05

It is my fervent dream to see the yoke of religion, in this case the Church, cast off and eventually ended once and for all, with the fable of Christ swept away yet this is not the way to do it... It is cowardly and also strengthens the Church more.. What was achieved by this? Nothing. For once I agree with Joe Zammit that persecution strengthens the Church more.

Andrew Gatt

Jun 6th 2009, 10:29

"the Church is doing her best to enlighten us with her sound teaching and always calls a spade a spade" - Joe Zammit

Beg to differ, Joe. It is the LACK of plain speaking and the LACK of taking action that damages the Church so much. Abuses are swept under the carpet too often and a culture of "omerta" is still prevalent. Anyone remember the Lourdes Home allegations? The rape of a girl and the involvement of a priest go-between? Not to mention that the Church also has it's head firmly in the sand on other important realities......contraception and divorce come immediately to mind.

Joe Zammit

Jun 6th 2009, 06:09

The Catholic Church is the one true Church Christ founded for all people. Since her beginning the Church preached the Gospel of Christ and converted millions of people on Christ's command to go and teach all people.

In Malta we thank God that the Church is doing her best to enlighten us with her sound teaching and always calls a spade a spade. She has done that and will continue to do that till the end of time.

We thank God also that the great majoriity of Maltese and Gozitans are Catholic and Catholic want to remain. By God's grace the Catholic Faith on these Catholic islands will grow stronger and stronger for the spiritual and material welfare of all those who live on our Catholic islands.

Joseph Ellul

Jun 6th 2009, 00:31

From what I read in this blog it seems that the bishop is trying to reign in the extravaganz of the external feasts. If this is the case then he will find strong opposition from all sides due to the fact that the Maltese must be alienated by the summer festa the same as with the English with soccer and the Australians with rugby league. Politicians love the festa as they can pass laws at night during these occasions. Festas are there for the small people to celebrate their village but has been railroaded and become a tourist attraction. It is no mean task to try to regulate these summer feasts especially when they verge on paganism, drunkenness and sometimes sex orgies. This is a complicated issue and can only be solved by the cooperation between the church and the local festa committee.
Once the official church celebrations are over, the local church should be closed and the street celebrations can continue under the direction of the local laws. This way the church will show that it has finished her functions for the day and what happens outside is the responsibility of the local police and organising committees.

Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi

Jun 5th 2009, 20:26

@ Pierre Farrugia, To think that there is no dissatisfaction with the Roman Catholic Church on these islands is to bury your head in the sand. This very article proves that. If you are unhappy with the church of your birth, opt out of it and join any other religion to your liking or be an atheist, no need to resort to acts of vandalism or criminality on an entity that you disagree with. The RCC monopoly and power base on these islands is shrinking by the year and that is a fantastic fact in my book. It is also alienating many Roman Catholics with its unwarranted intrusion into civil life and in government where it does not belong. As far as I know I never mentioned any particular Protestant church or group in my blog so please do not misconstrued it for propaganda. Other bloggers ( on this very thread for example) praise the Roman Catholic church and its clergy to kingdom come and no one says to them its propaganda for their church . What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Elaine Zammit

Jun 5th 2009, 16:44

Jien lanqas naqbel li ikun hemm piki u glied fil-festi. Imma fil-parrocci jinsabu hafna piki fosthom f'min ghandu jew min ha ikollu l-akbar qanpiena fil kanpnar tal-knisja, min ghandu l-isbah statwa tal-parrocca, l-isbah knisja u l-isbah gharmar tal-knisja, l-isbah armar fit toroq u l-isbah marcijiet u hafna ohrajn... Jien personali m'ghandi xejn konta dan li semmejt pero nahseb li jekk ha ikun hemm xi regolamenti isiru ghal Kulhadd mhux ghal kumitati tal-festi esterni biss.....

adrian aquilina

Jun 5th 2009, 16:34

the greatest threat to religion is religion itself...if you can think,if you can use your brain to see you will know its all a political,power hungry,money grabbing institution with no bases in reality. thats why they had to torcher and kill to make peiople believe in their superstitions. i dont agree with grafiting the church walls but its not quite up there with the crimes the church have commited on society and individuals..if the bible is the word of a god who made the universe you would have thought at least it would be scientifically and historically correct..and if prayer works how come it only works,like "miricles"on things that could happen anyway..starving kids in countries can pray but nothing will change..think for yourself and take responsibility for your life instead of blaming supernatural forces.its everything that holds this country back from progressing.

P_ Attard

Jun 5th 2009, 15:46

Mgr Grech qed jolqot xi nies fil-laham il-haj meta qed jahdem biex jinqatghu l-glied u l-piki fil-festi. Nahseb huwa l-unika isqof li kellu l-kuragg jaghmel dan. thallix nies bla sens bhal dawn jaqtghulek qalbek mill-hidma xierqa tieghek!

Pierre Farrugia

Jun 5th 2009, 13:41

A shame that the protestant fellow would use a hate crime as propaganda for his church. What he should be doing is asking the fundamental questions, like; if there's no need for Church authority, as most protestants teach the sola sciptura doctrine, who then was given the authority to formulate the canon of the bible as we have it today? Who tells us the books in the Bible really come from God? The very Church, founded by Christ, which he'll continue to attack unless illumined by the Holy Spirit. All the while, true Catholics know that our Bishops and Shepherds are ministers, and as such, ones who serve like their Lord asked them to. Sure they remain human, but I don't think every protestant pastor is a saint either. If they were they'd long have converted, like Cardinal Newman who realised where the truth lay.

Let there be no mistake, we reasoning Catholics will go on following our shepherds, because they've been given to us by Christ, and for this we are grateful.

In

Mark-Anthony Fenech

Jun 5th 2009, 13:29

Whilst I am very much anti-religion and agnostic to the bone, this is not the way to combat religion, it is cowardly. Debating face to face is more honourable.

Ernest Vella

Jun 5th 2009, 13:08

"Min dan jaghrfukom li intom tieghi, jekk ikollokom l-imhabba bejnietkom."...dawn in-nies li kitbu hekk ma haqqhomx jghidu li huma nsara ghax ghazlu t-triq tad-dlam u mhux tan-nies civili u nsara...nies bla gazz

Kuragg Mons.Grech...it-tajjeb dejjem jirbah

Frans Sammut

Jun 5th 2009, 12:59

I really cannot understand what is going on in Gozo. May I show my solidarity and that of my family to Mgr Grech.

JOHN MANGION

Jun 5th 2009, 11:29

Matthew 5 : 11 - 12

Joseph Grech

Jun 5th 2009, 11:03

My full support prayers to Mgr Grech in these difficult times when he is trying to consolidate the FONDO CLERO of the Diocese of Gozo. My humble advise is: Do not hesitate to take care of your FRIENDS (clergy members and laity) because these may be your BRUTUS and may have 'mano in pasta' in these events. Gozitan saying: Ghawdex zghir u n-nies maghrufa.

J.Grech

Robert Gatt

Jun 5th 2009, 10:25

The Bishop of Gozo has all our support and prayers in his mission. He is a very good preacher, and clearly knows where to steer the Catholic Church in the Gozo Diocese. As Freidrick Neitzche said, "What does not destroy me makes me stronger." I personally admire his style of giving sermons since they are solid proof of his apt knowledge and sensitive understanding of societal issues, especially on the national level. Other priests should follow this style and deliver the Gospel truth with particular relevance to the social, economic, and diverse reality that we are living in, in the present.

R. Gatt

Jun 5th 2009, 09:26

Do you mean persecution of others Joe Zammit? Like the burning of witches.

'The College of Gozitan Parish Priests deplored the attack on the bishop's integrity'. Where were they when a priest tried to convince the mother of an abused child to take a bribe and stay silent about the abuse. Don't you deplore such attack? Don't you deplore such behaviour from one of you? What about the mother and child's integrity?

I deplore the Curia walls being vandalised and the allegations thrown at the Gozo bishop, but one has to be consistent in order to be credible.

j camilleri

Jun 5th 2009, 08:43

Dear Bishop,
We pray for you to keep leading us with courage. Even from Malta we look up to your leadership. God is with His Church.

Lawrence Camilleri

Jun 4th 2009, 22:00

I publicly express full solidarity with our beloved Bishop, Mgr Mario Grech. As we say in Maltese "Azzjoni hazina tirrifletti fuq min jaghmilha u mhux fuq min jirceviha". No need for me to encourage His Lordship to continue leading the Church in Gozo the way he is wisely leading it for the benefit of all the faithful while giving space to others who do not see eye to eye with him. He is the right man at the right time for the job of looking after not only the spiritual wellbeing of the Gozo Diocese but also holds utmost concern for the temporal welfare of the fold entrusted to his care. Go on Mgr Grech, lead us with your illustrious teachings and encourage us with your ever present smile. Thank you dear Bishop.

Galea. L

Jun 4th 2009, 20:48

It seems that hothead abound especially where local feasts are concerned.

Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi

Jun 4th 2009, 20:29

I do not condone vandalism or criminality, but a lot of my Maltese brothers and sisters are leaving this controlling entity and joining the glorious ranks of Protestant Christianity.
In years to come the RCC power base in these islands will be far less, god willing.
About time too.

Francis X Grima

Jun 4th 2009, 20:17

I am sure Bishop Mario Grech has already forgiven those who were cowardly enough to write the graffiti. This act confirms that Mgr Grech is doing the work entrusted to him by the Almighty. He has our support, prayers and thanks for his precious work and dedication.

God bless our Bishops.

Joe Zammit

Jun 4th 2009, 19:49

Persecution strengthens the Catholic Church. This does not mean we must persecute the Church, far from it. But the devil instils in some the idea of somehow persecuting her. The Church has always come out stronger after a persecution.

The Church's enemy among people is ignorance, not persecution. Woe to the Church if she does not evangelize!

We thank God for his great providence in giving us dynamic spiritual shepherds like Mgr Mario Grech and Mgr Paul Cremona.