Muslims pray again on the Sliema front

A. Muscat

Jun 18th 2009, 16:02

@Kenneth Duthie

You are a repeat, so do I.

What is actually the problem? Is it about what Mr. Badr said or it is about what he did? If it’s the former, I would like to ask, should it be by default being a Muslim, or called Badr to be discriminated and hurt? Shall we get back ward to inquisition era? Should we exclude others
with different beliefs? Should we call for a crusader? What do you suggest please?

Mr. Badr said: ‘… if people were discriminated against and hurt, it would become impossible to control a backlash.” Please take note of the word (IF). Do you read selectively?

Now its crystal clear when you have nothing to say you simply opt to repeat, just to say something!

Please scroll down in both message boards, you may note that I have asked you 14 questions (bar the few questions in this post) and you miserably failed to answer any.

Any way unless you answer my questions one by one, please consider this post is the final.
Good day

Kenneth Duthie

Jun 18th 2009, 10:43

According to you if one wishes to determine if someone claiming to be a prophet is the real thing one must ask his followers, who know his works. If one asks Mormons, who know Joseph Smith's life story and writings, they will tell you that he was a prophet. So according to your guidelines, Joseph Smith was a prophet.

Now why do you try to talk about apples when you're asked about oranges? Again: if a Mormon choir decided to set up shop right where you boys wanted to bow and scrape along the pavement, and started singing a stirring and entertaining set of Christian hymns - would there be an "uncontrollable backlash"?

A. Muscat

Jun 18th 2009, 07:08

‘So according to what you've said, you do believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, ..’
Where did I say so please?

If Mormons believe that Joseph Smith is prophet, or if Collyridiens believe that Madonna is a prophet good for them, why should I bother? that’s something between them and the creator: Allah

As regards the dogs feces and urine part of your questions, please have a look at the above video you see that each one has a rug to use for praying.

Let us see what the Bible says about how Jesus used to pray.

Matthew 26:39: "And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

" Luke 22:44 "And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground’

But the big question, do practicing Christians pray the way Jesus did? Are Christians more correct and more hygiene than Jesus?

Kenneth Duthie

Jun 15th 2009, 21:55

So if one wishes to determine if a "prophet" is the real thing, one must ask his followers. Well if one asked Mormons about Joseph Smith, they would tell you that he was a prophet (obviously). So according to what you've said, you do believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, after all. Well, well ..

Tell me now, would you consider it fair play if a little Mormon choir started up right next to your Muslim fellows and began belting out a set of Christian hymns as you lot bowed and scraped all over the pavement where dogs have been peeing all week? Would you have anything to say about that? Would there be an uncontrollable backlash?

A. Muscat

Jun 8th 2009, 16:13

@ Kenneth Duthie If Joseph Smith, George Bush, Kenneth Duthie or any body else were to come to peoples claiming to be a messenger from God with proofs of a DIVINE message from the creator, then peoples (only if interested to have a god or obey God) must first VERIFY his claim then they choose to follow him or consider him an imposter and go against the Creator’s word. This exactly was the case 1400 years ago with Muslim’s prophet (Mohammed). This should automatically lead to the following questions: Was Jesus God or part of God? If so, then why? Should we have a creator? Is (X) prophet in question a true messenger from the creator? Is (X) a true prophet or an imposter? Is what (X) prophet says a man-made or God’s word? To answer these question one should not consult Pentagon-sponsored web site or to ask George Bush, but the peoples of knowledge about what (X) prophet says. Again, if Joseph Smith or any body else were to fulfill the bill of prophecy then he would have been a prophet, however this was never the case.

Kenneth Duthie

Jun 8th 2009, 02:37

"I will answer ALL your questions." - A Muscat.

Go on then.

Start with explaining why you don't believe Joseph Smith is a prophet.

A. Muscat

Jun 3rd 2009, 23:34

@ Kenneth Duthie
Hello again, long time no see??

I will answer ALL your questions but first we should clarify three simple issues to set a base for the debate please:
Question one: Does God exist? (a simple yes or know would do)
Question two:How many Gods are, or should be there? (a simple number would do)
Question three: Did prophets exist, or was there prophets before Muslim’s prophet? (for now a simple yes or no would do)

Thank you Kenneth

Kenneth Duthie

Jun 3rd 2009, 03:30

@ A Muscat

So when you say that your god sent a prophet to all nations, what you really mean to say is that your god did NOT send a prophet to all nations. Interesting insight into Islamic logic.

Now please tell me why I should take your prophet any more seriously than Joseph Smith.

Denis Catania

May 29th 2009, 20:48

@Michelle Dali I was trying to prove a point. I had to get a little sarcastic to do that. The Maltese don't care until it hits their backyard. Now I guess the Sleima Residence association is getting together to save Sleima's charm as quoted by Carla Vella. How about Malta's charm?? Is this any worse than what happened to Marsa. If the Marsa residence get together to Save Marsa they are racists. When the Sliema residence get together it's to save Sliema's charm. How convenient. By the way they will demand other things. Things that you and me as Maltese can't have.

Michelle Dali

May 27th 2009, 17:38

@ Denis Catania

You missed the point I was trying to make completely, I'm afraid. I'm not saying that the residents of Sliema should be immune to such exhibitionism by muslims because they are different.

What I do believe, is that this is not about prayer, but about these muslims trying to impose their will on others. They have already been told they couldn't use the apartment for prayer gatherings because they were inconveniencing other residents with their customs (shoes lying around in corridors, noise, etc surely pose health and safety risks as well as the nuisance factor)

What they should be doing is going to the Paola mosque to do their thing like others do. Why should they be allowed to make this display in a public place when it may be offensive to others? What happens if they start demanding other things? What if they decide that women passing by are 'distracting' them from their 'prayers'? Should the authorities cordon off the area for their benefit? The answer is no. It is THEY who have to adapt and abide by the law of the land they have chosen to live in.

Graham Crocker

May 26th 2009, 23:12

Anthony Pace Gouder,
Because C.Borg has a Brain.

C. Busuttil

May 26th 2009, 22:58

@Jeremy Gatt

Certain people never stop to surprise me, if you live next to a church you should ask yourself who came first me or the church. It has nothing to do with religion but certain people are so selfish that they expect others to adapt to themselves not viceversa. Some believe and expect that since they have purchased a property, whatever in the area is not of their likening must be removed or closed. I personally know a selfish woman who bought a flat that was opposite the belfry of a church she always complains about the bells and blames the priests, instead of blaming herself for making the wrong decision. With the regards to the muslim people they have a mosque they should make use of it or else they should let us know that they don't need it any more and we will pull it down to make space for something more useful. The same will apply for a christian church.

Jeremy Gatt

May 25th 2009, 16:40

I live across the street from a church. And im sure the amount of noise the make is plenty times worse then a few muslims praying. So i should complain to the authorities and have their place of worship sealed up as well?!

Anthony Pace Gouder

May 25th 2009, 14:48

@ C. Borg

Why are you complaining and comparing a Roman Catholic Procession with Islamic praying ? I'm sure this procession is a single yearly event that lasts a maximum of 2 to 3 hours. For all that matters one can always use ear-plugs !!!!! I HAVE EXPERIENCED the prayer call in LIBYA that is blasted out 5 times DAILY on excessive LOUD speakers, starting around 5 am and earlier !!!! Imagine a mosqe next door .

Milena Aguis

May 25th 2009, 12:16

Mr T Mifsud....y is this SO UNACCEPTABLE?
These ppl are praying for crying out loud,they r not insulting anyone..or offending OUR God....what is the problem?
And its scandalous to see police standing there!!!
Yes something should have been done..IF THEY WERE PRAYNG TO SATAN!!!!!
There is a Muslim School in Malta and the Head and teachers are Catholic and work marvellously with the Imam.Now that is positive is it not?

Carla Vella

May 25th 2009, 11:39

The Sliema Residents Assocn planned a meeting on 21 May about "losing Sliema's charm". No part of Malta should be allowed to lose its charm, Sliema or otherwise, and the real culprits are not a few people praying for a few minutes in our beautiful sunshine or rain if need be (what is not charming about that?) but our own money-grabbing big property developers, who believe that having loads of money or contacts means they can get round all sorts of local regulations - and of course we know they are correct. Come, you have seen it for yourselves, yes? And did you challenge the appropriate authorities? Environmental Health? MEPA? Local councils in general? Or did you just love yourself as you argued a point over a drink at dinner or a bar? The Big Question: if you challenged, did that authority even pay attention to your concerns or complaint? or did you just receive an automated "receipt email" and that's it? Truth is, I described certain incidents here in Tmes of Malta comments but I was criticised for exaggerating or making things up. I was not. My own people dismissed my concerns about our own misbehaviours. Charming?

C.Borg

May 24th 2009, 20:10

Sorry I cant help but comment, Most people complained that the Muslims caused some sort of inconvenience.... Well, i've got an exam tomorrow, and guess what; there's currently a procession, complete with loud speakers, right outside my door.

So please, enlighten me; if a small group of people praying quietly between themselves was classified as a ‘disturbance’, what would you call this?!

That's hypocrisy for you

A. Muscat

May 22nd 2009, 16:02

@Kenneth Duthie.

Hello there.
You ask:

‘Really? Who did he send to America? Joseph Smith?’

Reading either the Bible or the Quran one easily notices that Middle East region is the cradle of all divine religions (Judaism-Christianity-Islam). The Quran informs Mankind that prophet Mohamed was the seal of prophets with a universal message for mankind, and so is the case for 1400 years. However this doesn’t exclude the possibility today you find peoples having self-made prophets and or self-made gods.

As you surely know the USA was created some 300+ years ago by European immigrants (this immigration was a result to religious wars in Europe).

Everybody is free to consider Joseph Smith or George Bush as his/her Prophet. Then again everybody is equally free to choose his/her idol (Water-Fire-Cow- Dogwood, Adding deity to a stone ..ect). Whichever the case, this doesn’t exclude God’s existence and His supremacy above every thing.

Faith is an absolute personal matter. Only God knows what’s inside our hearts and minds and He reward accordingly.
Thank you.

Stephen Farrugia

May 22nd 2009, 03:12

U halluhom jitolbu! mux ahjar milli joqodu jduru fil vojt bhal ma namlu ahna meta mmorru passigata :)

Kenneth Duthie

May 21st 2009, 22:46

Allah has sent a prophet to every nation as a warner to disbelievers and a bearer of glad tidings. - A. Muscat

Really? Who did he send to America? Joseph Smith?

A. Muscat

May 21st 2009, 18:02

@Kenneth Duthie.
You ask:
Muhammad? The "ideal man"? How is he seen by ALL Muslims?
Mohamed is like all other Allah’s prophets (Abraham,Mouse, Jesus, Mohammed). All prophets are EQUAL and supported by God,so says the Quran.
Each prophet was wisely selected by Allah in order to be the best person for the job. He was then provided by Allah with miracles as proof of his truthfulness and his message. These miracles were wisely selected by Allah in order to be in the same field as that which these people excelled in so that they could fully comprehend the magnitude of these miracles.
All the miracles are time limited, only one everlasting yet CHALLENGING miracle is there, this is the Quran.
Allah has sent a prophet to every nation as a warner to disbelievers and a bearer of glad tidings.
All Allah‘s prophets came with same message:
God exist. God is unique. God above every thing and all creation. God is not a female or male. God is independent one (not a trinity)
God does not need to have a son nor a daughter.
God is powerful and work with one order BE and it BE.

Denis Catania

May 21st 2009, 06:48

@Denis Bartolo: I'm from Gzira, Muslims have been praying on the streets of Gzira for 40 years. We had a hotel that catered to Muslims. It was called the Zepplin Hotel built in the mid sixties on Ponsombe St. About 38 rooms four to a room. With a halal meat market next door. No TV or newspaper crews came to cover such stories.

@Michelle Dali: Why should the people of Marsa and Safi put up with it?? The people of Sliema should be immune to such events. Are you more special, because you are from Sliema. Do you deserve a better quality of life over me because you are from Sliema and I'm from Gzira?? Are you better than someone from Marsa or Safi?? I don't think so, Ms Dali.

This proves my point. The Maltese don't care until it hits their town, village or city. Let it be in someone else's backyard, but not mines. The attitude of the Maltese.

Let me tell you something else Mr.Bartolo and Ms.Dali I believe if we are going to put up with illegal immigrants. We should bus their kids to schools in Sliema and Sweiqi too. Sorry!!

Kenneth Duthie

May 21st 2009, 02:25

"No one is better than Jesus and no woman enjoy higher status than Mary. So says the Quran. Those two facts have been well recognized and digested 1400 years ago by ALL Muslims." - A. Muscat.

Muhammad? The "ideal man"? How is he seen by ALL Muslims?

Kenneth Duthie

May 20th 2009, 22:50

A. Muscat - "At the moment I will not argue how Muslims exalt Jesus."

Joe Xuereb (to A. Muscat) - "No red herrings please!"

If you believe that you have something to say regarding Islamic prayer in Malta, then go ahead and say it. I'll read it.

A. Muscat

May 20th 2009, 17:53

@ Kenneth Duthie

No one is better than Jesus and no woman enjoy higher status than Mary. So says the Quran.
Those two facts have been well recognized and digested 1400 years ago by ALL Muslims.

Back to the unanswered question:

Do Christians pray the way Jesus did? If yes tell me how and if no tell me why?
YES Muslims pray the exact way Jesus did:

." Matthew 26:39: "And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."
Luke 22:44 "And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground
Mark 14:32-Luke 3:21-Luke 6:12

Have you ever seen a Christian "fall on his face" and pray to God as Abraham, Mouse, Jesus, Muhammad, and all Muslims do?

Why is this? Was Jesus a Muslim? Are Christians holier or more correct than Jesus?
I hope you provide me with an answer. Thank you

Kenneth Duthie

May 19th 2009, 16:19

@ A. Muscat - Let's examine the conditional statement: If you do not answer this question then it follows that nothing you say is correct. Okay, I have a philosophy degree, but you don't need one to see that your position is deeply illogical. I could say to you that if you don't respond to my enquiry about Mr. Zina's "backlash" then nothing else you say is true. But obviously this kind of thinking isn't helpful. If you believe that you have something to say regarding Islamic prayer in Malta, then go ahead and say it. In the spirit of John Stuart Mill, who said that it's always beneficial to hear an opposing view, I will be interested enough to read your posts, but it's not my job to write an argument for you. That would be your job, and so I'll leave you to do it. I suggest you try to remember that we are not simply "debating religion" but the way Islam has impacted Western countries throughout Europe (Malta being just one one of these.) If you believe that Watt's analysis of Islamic prayer is incorrect, then please remember to mention that too. Good luck.

A. Muscat

May 19th 2009, 15:16

@ Kenneth Duthie
For the third time and probably last, I kindly ask you:
Do Christians pray the way Jesus did? If yes tell me how and if no tell me why?
Please, don’t deliberately answer cheese while you are specifically asked about vegetables.
Failing to answer the above question and quoting Biblical verses to demonstrate what the Bible says about women rights would automatically discredit your comment in the whole matter. Period.

Kenneth Duthie

May 19th 2009, 00:38

Can I just add too that this usage of the term "racism" is complete and utter nonsense. In Karl Consiglio's article dated 14th May, this is tacitly acknowledged, when the author says that if Chinese Buddhists had wanted to pray in Malta somewhere the reaction wouldn't be the same. Only with followers of Islam. Quite so!

Islam is an ideology. It is (obviously) not a race. It's that simple. If people with to throw the term around, then they should first of all define exactly what they mean by it, then explain how they can apply it to criticism of an ideology, and finally provide an argument for whatever conclusion they wish readers of their posts to draw.

People of all nations, colours and creeds can become a Muslim. I don't care where someone comes from, or what their first language is. That's absolutely irrelevant. What matters is the belief system someone adheres to, and what they do in its name. To anyone who thinks throwing the term "racist" around is profoundly meaningful: you're wrong. To make use of the well-known American phrase: It's the ideology, stupid!

Kenneth Duthie

May 18th 2009, 23:16

@ A. Muscat
You asked, "Why worry about a few dozen of Muslim wives in Malta?"

The issue I raised of course was that Mr. Zina had threatened some sort of "backlash" if his all-male group was discriminated against. In fact Mr. Zina's group is itself discriminatory in a fundamental way, since not all Muslims are allowed to attend.

You seem to think discrimination is unimportant, whenever it is practiced by Muslims but like the quote from Watt, it helps to indicate what this prayer group is, what they believe, what they want now, and what they might want in the future. In short, it goes to the heart of the matter. I also can't help wondering how large this group would become. Someone posted a link earlier where something similar had happened in Italy, and so far as I could make it, it caused huge problems. I suppose we could be confident that the prayer group would always be limited in size in one way though, since there wouldn't be any people there who happened to have two X chromosomes. Isn't that discriminatory?

Kenneth Duthie

May 18th 2009, 20:13

@ A. Muscat I actually did send another comment before that last one, and was surprised to see that it hadn't appeared. Once again then, in under 200 words: It's worth pointing out that your mention of the global "credit crunch" in the context of this discussion is a red herring. (I can hear my old philosophy lecturer now!) It may be true that the "credit crunch" will affect Malta's tourism. It does not follow that a second, completely different matter will not also affect it. So getting back on topic (after you randomly added that sub-issue): The defeat of Sulieman's forces by the Knights of St. John and the people of Malta was one of the most important and inspirational events in world history. Like a lot of Brits I consider Malta my favourite holiday destination; I like the people, the island, the culture. I've considered going there to live. But I would not want to see Muslims praying towards the city named after Jean de la Valette. And I humbly suggest that a lot of Brits would feel the same way.

A. Muscat

May 18th 2009, 14:18

@ Kenneth Duthie My question was simple: Do Christians pray the way Jesus did? If yes, please tell me how and if no tell me why? Why do you deliberately answer cheese while you are specifically asked about vegetables? Today you come up cloaked as Muslim women’s right advocate. Why worry about few dozen of Muslim wives in Malta? I appreciate your genuine concern about Muslim women rights and I just brought to my mind the thousands of beleaguered Gazans (Christian and Muslim women) could you advocate their basic right for food and shelter please? Since we are debating religion I have the Bible as my source to support my claims. Once at it, could you please tell me what the Bible says about women rights? Again, failing to answer my questions ( and quoting Biblical verses) to support what you say would automatically discredit your comment in the whole matter I am afraid. P.S:If you randomly add sub-issues to simply add fuel to the debate, I am not up to waste my time. Thanks and good day

Kenneth Duthie

May 18th 2009, 02:04

@ A. Muscat
I'd just like to bring up a comment attributed in an earlier article to "Bader Zina" who is described as "one of the leaders" of this merry little band of Muslims: Mr. Zina apparently said that if any of his men were discriminated against, then it would be impossible to control a backlash. (Note there's no mention of women being discriminated against by Mr. Zina, who's prayer outing is an all-male affair.)

We can all remember the reaction to the Danish cartoons, and that's just the tip of the iceberg: throughout Europe in the last few years, many people have been threatened, attacked, and taken to court just for criticising Islam. Take just one example: Robert Redeker's life was ruined after he wrote an essay.

http://inthefrozennorth.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/robert-redeker-in-eurabia/

So my question to you is this. In light of all that's happened to people like Robert Redeker, Michel Houellebecq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Oriana Fallaci, Geert Wilders, Salman Rushdie, Kurt Westergaard, Ilan Halimi and Theo van Gogh, to name just a few - what do you make of Mr. Zina's comment?

Stephen Farrugia

May 18th 2009, 00:28

Isn't loitering a crime here?

A. Muscat

May 17th 2009, 02:55

@ Kenneth Duthie
Do Christians pray the way Jesus did? If yes tell me how and if no tell me why?
Failing to answer these question would automatically discredit your comment in the whole matter I am afraid.
Thanks for your concern about our tourism industry. However, right now I only bring to my mind the credit crunch as a prime reason behind any difficulties tourism sector may.
For this global 'bankruptcy' or more precisely ecnomic failure we should head across the other side of the Atlantic and point our finger if you know what i mean.

d. borg

May 16th 2009, 11:20

Qed naghlqu ghajnejna ghal wisq affarijiet. Kollox jibda bil-ftit. Nispera ma nqumux meta jkun tard wisq.

Kenneth Duthie

May 16th 2009, 01:46

I've just read W.Montgomery Watt's biography of Mohammad. In it he reminds his readers that for Muslims, prayer is seen in an entirely different way from Christianity. (For example, one is told explicitly not to pray on street corners in Matthew 6: 5-6) For Muslims, prayer is "first and foremost a public affirmation of the stand one takes. To get something analogous in our lives we must think of things like sporting the party colours on election day. A staunch supporter of the red rosettes could not possibly wear a blue one. It is unthinkable; it would be treachery. When we are dealing with the Middle East we must remember that public religious observances are acts of this kind." I can only agree with what has already been said; if Malta gives these people an inch, they'll try to take a mile. And this kind of thing will definitely impact Malta's tourism. One of the attractions for many Brits is the fact that Malta is one of the key places in history where Islamic forces were "sent homeward, to think again." I love Malta. If I walked along the Sliema waterfront and saw Muslims praying, it'd break my heart.

Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi

May 15th 2009, 22:13

@ Mary Borg,
How can multiculturalism ever become one culture?
It is an oxymoron.
That is like saying, let us break the egg so we can rebuild the egg.
Why bother?
No one has voted for this concept.
Few want it, so why shove it down our throat ?

Mary Borg

May 12th 2009, 01:42

Malta's homogeneousness must be put aside to make way for multiculturalism. With 27 states all with their identity, the EU has no future. One day, multiculturalism will be the culture of all the EU states. Only then, the EU will cease to be a (dis)Union of 27 individual states and become a one big country: The United States of Europe (USE).

Marlene Vella

May 12th 2009, 00:55

@ M Hughes
Thank you for your comment. I commented previously as I found that particular comment equally offensive to the community values and social intelligence of English, (I'm lucky to) live in the UK you describe comments like the below are reserved for the stars on the comedy channel.

A. Muscat

May 11th 2009, 21:07

Muslims and Islam are again under spotlight.

When you don’t know about something, ask the peoples of knowledge. If you have a toothache (God forbid) you don’t go to a mechanic for a fix but a dentist. For this matter should any body like to know about Islam, the Imam could answer any question? We always have to differentiate between the faith and the followers of the faith do and this apply on all faiths.
Learning beyond what you hear in media is a very good tool ONLY for serious peoples that would like to learn.
Any body interested to read about the divine message of Islam, please read Quran and modern science-compatible or incompatible? By Dr. Zakir Naik
http://www.ahmed-deedat.net/modules.php?name=myBooks2&op=listt&cat=7

Loli Attard

May 11th 2009, 18:08

Can anyone tell me where in the Bible does it state that we need to go to church to pray? Are these people doing any harm? Are they walking around blaspheming, causing trouble, insulting anyone? But no, we the Catholics get on our high horse & throw the 1st stone! Whether these people pray in their own houses or outside, does it matter? They are praising God. We are such hypocrites we would rather go to church every Sunday just in case people thought badly of us, but as soon as we come out, we blaspheme, indulge in adultery (plenty of it!) talk about our neighbour, but no the most important factor is we went to church! Hypocracy comes to mind! When is Malta going to broaden it's horizon and it's closed mentality! We should know better, weren’t we the ones persecuted for our faith??? Are we doing the same?
Bernard Galea, I raise my hat to you!

M Hughes

May 11th 2009, 16:50

@ m azzopardi
I am English, and for a start I don't consider the UK to have "Muslim Problems" and feel proud to be from a country that is so diverse and multicultural. I can guarantee that 99.9% of “poor English tourists” will embrace and be pleased to see a multicultural Malta but would be shocked and appalled at the levels of racism that they fine when they land on the island - a supposedly modern European country. I think in the long run the racist and narrow mindedness of a small number of Maltese people will have detrimental effects on their long term tourist industry - an industry that they so heavily reply on. For a 'Catholic country' I have experienced a surprisingly bigotry and un-catholic attitude in Malta and think people should be ashamed.

Sandro Pace

May 11th 2009, 00:26

@ mr. m azzopardi exactly. Also I fail to understand why many people are obstinate not to heed the advice on multiculturalism from people who really experienced it (ie in its proper percentage). Last time I was reading an article about Luton. Multiculturalism, in its political sense, is no joy. Where it has been brought, it came in solely for economic reasons more than anything else, in highly industrialised countries. And not without its inevitable clashes, for a multitude of reasons, not least lack of total acceptance of the recipient country's laws by newcomers, or lack of loyalty to it.

Sandro Pace

May 11th 2009, 00:08

Freedom of worship of whichever recognised religion is guaranteed, but elevating any religion to the Catholic one (practiced by the stra-majority of the Maltese) in Malta would be a mistake. Catholicsm and its manifestions, are part of our identity and what tourists come for to see (partly). Allowing a muslim prayer group in a touristic area is a mistake, in my opinion. The level of foreigners in Malta does not go beyond that of 'communities' and make no mistake, our country is not a multi-cultural one, and has no recognised religious minorities. This is a political departing point which want it or not, has to be accepted. There is no obligation for a country to become multi-cultural, which is only the trend in highly industrialised western europe. Arabic and eastern european countries protect themselves well against multi-culturalism. Forcing it on a population which is resistant to it is going to be bad, and hence the right of refusal. Like the Italians, the Maltese should have a democratic choice between parties whose policy is to prevent their country becoming a multi-whatever, and others who favours it. However this is all about restraining numbers. All communities must still be respected.

Simon Balzan

May 10th 2009, 22:15

As I read the comments regarding this incident I realize not that we are becoming racist and intolerant as a nation , but that we have a good number of do gooders that are more naive than is good for them and unfortunately the rest of us. A glaring example is today's SToM columnist Kristina Chetcuti. It would have been better if she gets acquainted with what Islam is all about before she goes on the defence of same.

D. Carabott

May 10th 2009, 21:33

This whole situation is becoming ridiculous... forget political correctness... something needs to be done soon because we are looking at a serious national crisis here.. we are not a stepping stone to Europe, we are an independent state who is being threatened by foreign intrusion.. we need to make our own rules.

Marlene Vella

May 10th 2009, 20:49

@Gerry Cowie, being in London I concur precisely with your comment. The problem in Malta is we always choose to compare and contrast ourselves with other countries where it suits our conventional beliefs and us, if not, we're happy to act just like we perceive them to be - in this case intolerant. All this while confusing Hindu with Indian and a traditionally clad Arab Christian with a terrorist. You can tell certain comments written on here are written by people who would not really be capable of openly showing their religious beliefs as the people in this video, hence the shock. At the same time there are endless pagan feasts in the streets all summer (these are apparently very good for tourism, especially if you're into the Anthropology of Street Fighting According To Your Favourite Patron Saint). The irony is this intolerance is happening in a place that should be boasting of its own Pan-Mediterranean heritage, where the Maltese themselves do not appreciate the semitism of their own language and other aspects of European Mediterranean identity. To talk like this you should reject Maltese olive oil because Olives were introduced by the Phoenicians :o)

m azzopardi

May 10th 2009, 20:40

can you imagine how our tourists will feel when they see them praying on the front. Imagine being an english person thinking of coming to Malta every year, because of our laid back life and then you see all these Muslims praying on the front. Suddenly this poor English tourist will start having flasbacks of Muslim problems in the UK and will go back to make a great advert for Malta

G.Schembri

May 10th 2009, 19:50

@ Arthur Ellul I suggest you leave Archbishop Mikiel Gonzi out of this. He hurt too many Maltese Catholic families in the past, which later, when their children grew up, backfired on the Catholic Church.

@ Joseph Seisun - Yes you are right, they don't believe Christ was God, but at least they believe he was a great prophet. Still they believe in one God like we do, does it matter that we call Him Alla and they call Him Allah?

@ Paul Smith and Terence Bell - Are you sure they were facing North? Were they facing St Julian's in my opinion St Julian's is north of Sliema so they must have been facing Grece and no Rome, although as you say they were not facing Mecca.

G.Schembri

May 10th 2009, 19:32

Funny how some fervent Catholics are so critical of Muslim states which do not let other religions pray in public. In the same breath these Catholics are trying to hinder other religions from praying. As a child I was brought up to believe my religion is the one and only religion, don't you realize that all other religions believe theirs to be the one and only as well. Are we going to remain with a middle ages mentality? Jesus Christ preached love and tolerance, so if we don't love and tolerate other religions we are not really obeying Christ are we? I believe that we can live as brothers with Muslims and other religions if we learn to tolerate each other. Learning to tolerate each other does not mean giving in to their laws. By no means will I tolerate a Muslim state, but then I don't what a Catholic state either. The state should let no religion dictate the laws of our country, and let the people live their lives according to their believes.

I. Galea

May 10th 2009, 19:10

"malta taghna, kattolika, u religjon taghna biss."

I'm an atheist. I have Maltese friends who are bhuddist, aethist, and agnostic. Does that mean we are not Maltese? or any less Maltese than thou?

stop this hypocrisy, for crying out loud. if you want something to be proud of, accept the fact that there are people with different beliefs. Just because people's ideas differ from yours, it doesn't mean you're right and they're wrong. Could you possibly get any more arrogant and selfish than this?

m calleja

May 10th 2009, 18:43

@ all those negative people :

as columnist austin sammut says : GET A LIFE.

i never realised we were such a racist nation prior to the last few weeks with the incidents relating to illegal immigrants and muslims praying on Ghar id Dud Front.

true we a RC country (fejn jaqblilna) yet we are intolerant towards others. as stated many of those praying at ghar id dud are maltese. however had it not been so, so what - get a life and let others live in peace.

at the end of the day, whether we are catholic, muslims, buddists, jehovas or born again christians, ultimately we still believe in God, whatever shape or form we believe in

Emma Xerri

May 10th 2009, 18:22

@Norman Vella

So you want us to tolerate the 'intolerant'?

And cannot wait for your own (Western) culture to come to an end? Regretably, I think you will soon see your wish fulfilled or at least your children will, which by then it will be too late.

Islam is not tolerant of other religions yet Muslims will raise a fuss and use our own laws to achieve their aim of Islamic supremacy.

Read about the sad case of Father Matteos in Egypt below to see how tolerant Isam is to other faiths:

http://apps.facebook.com/causes/280439?m=ea7cabe2

Arthur Ellul

May 10th 2009, 17:59

akkjoni Kattolika

Legion of Mary

Gunta tal Muzew, bniet u subien,

Tan neo katikomunikat,

Qumu u morro itolbu fil berah kull nhar ta gimgha f nofs in nhar intom wkoll. oholqu il velji u is sajdiet muzewimini fil berah. ippriekdak il kelma tal mulej. Fejnu l arcisqof Gonzi halli jiddriedka li il protestanti anti kristjani ja jihdulna il knejjes u il pjazez.

malta taghna, kattolika, u religjon taghna biss.

Joe Fenech

May 10th 2009, 17:01

L. Mule'Stagno:

Just a little tweak to your question..

How would Muslims react if Christians were singing Christian hymns in THEIR streets.

I don't accept any lecturing on rights and democracy from Muslims because that's not a concept they're familiar with. There is no such thing as a democratic Muslim country!

Raymond Cachia

May 10th 2009, 16:59

Who's idea was it to introduce "multiculturalism' anyway? I do not recall any referendum asking the Maltese public how they felt about it or a White Paper outlining all the ramifications of this policy on a tiny nation state. Instead we got "multiculturalism" through the back door.

@ Joe Xuereb, Mary Borg

No Multiculturalism is not fine. As soon as you introduce 'multiculturalism' in effect a nation ceases to exist, because the very essence and heart that made that country unique as a nation would have been removed and replaced with a hotchpotch of ethnicities and cultures. Would Germany still be Germany if instead of Germans the majority where South American Indians and would Japan be still Japan if you replaced most of the population with Italians?

The book "Selling Illusions" by Neil Bissoondath is a scathing expose of how this policy has been played out in Canada. It should be an eye opener for the rest of the world.

Joe Xuereb

May 10th 2009, 16:17

cont./ For the record - And I say this as I ALWAYS put my money where MY mouth is - my take on this matter is from the point of view of a staunch atheist (we've all heard of stuanch Catholics. Well, there walks the earth his/her atheist equivalent. Sorry for the bad news but it happens to be true, a rare occurrence). This affords this mortal being a clarity of vision not available to all those who persist in believing in an eternal existence. For me there was a price to high to pay for that dream. I don't do dreams. I do coffee. And dream with eyes wide open.

Joe Xuereb

May 10th 2009, 16:11

cont./ .....where this cultish religion can be practised, no sweat!! (the mosques would be air-conditioned - I know, I've been there. And with not a skimpy skirt in sight. Don't forget L. Mule` Stagno (all this is relevant especially if you're a female. I never assume anything). Don't forget Summer is with us, the heat will be on, and skimpy skirts on all fronts will come out to play. Not that they ever went away of course. You may have heard of the young Azerbaijani woman (21 years) in St. Petersburg two weeks ago. She wore a mini skirt under her long coat. Problematic. Father angry. First sign of Spring, coat off. Legs showing. Father very angry. Male relatives, friends urged him to defend his 'honour' (loosely used). Father engaged three thugs to abduct her and execute her. They took her to the woods and shot her dead in the neck. This in present day, big city western democracy. The father at the poliice station reported his daughter missing AND DEAD. Police suspicions raised. Father confessed. Under pressure(?). Two murderers caught, third on the run. That was the last I heard of it. Reported on ANSA News Agency. cont./

Joe Xuereb

May 10th 2009, 16:04

@ L. Mule` Stagno. What I said to J. Mifsud applies to you too. Let me put it another way. The Catholic Church's track record may not be squeaky-clean. But it is cleaner than the Institution that these men represent. Of course these men could be the purest beings walking the earth and the Sliema seafront. But the Institution they claim to represent? In which case the least they could do would be to loudly declare their revulsion at what their wayward brothers have been doing these last ten years. Have you been in a coma these last ten years L. Mule` Stagno? Having said that, even such a loud, written and signed declaration would not convince this one. I'll tell you want I mean. You have no doubt heard of the expression in the English language ' to put one's money where one's mouth is. In this scenario, this means these people (no women present) would pack their probably ill-gotten chattels, and, together with all Maltese converts to Islam and sundry apologists like yourself, go to any of a vast number of vast coutries where this cultish belief system can be practised, no sweat!! cont./

Roy Cecil

May 10th 2009, 15:34

According to Wikipedia I am pasting it here:
"The Constitution of Malta provides for freedom of religion but establishes Roman Catholicism as the state religion."
when Muslims expect them to have the right to construct a mosque in a land whose official religion is Roman catholicism, shouldn't the reverse be true as well? Which is the ability to build a church or a temple in Muslim countries ( Saudi Arabia , Qatar etc ) . How many of you think that if you do what the Muslims are doing in the Sliema front in Saudi Arabia can come back with their heads intact on your shoulder? I think the Muslims have a right to protest, but should be politely be made aware that this cannot be viewed as an isolated case of freedom of worship. That you cannot demand rights that they themselves don't provide. For all the moralist who feels compunction please also speak up for other religions oppressed in the Muslim countries. If their intention is to pray peacefully, I am sure there are several places in Malta that they could pray. This is an act of defiance and should be treated as such.

D. Muscat

May 10th 2009, 15:32

@ Michael Scicluna

Taxpaying Muslim citizens are members of the Maltese State and not the Maltese Church. It is thus the Maltese State that is morally obliged to provide these citizens with a place of worship and not the Church. Moreover, you should remember that after 1993 the great majority of Church property was transferred to the state and is now administered by the Joint Office.

Anyway, I'm quite amused by this whole affair. It is fun to see a group of Muslim worshipers in the posh area of Sliema. The Maltese who live there don't even tolerate fellow Maltese and speak to their kids in English because they are "tal-pepe". So their intolerance towards these Muslims stems more from their arrogance rather than Malteseness which they are so eager to discard.

Piero Timpano

May 10th 2009, 14:42

@ Malcolm Seychell : Its bad enough that religion is involved in this.. please don't try and turn it into a political debate as well!

@ all the others "disgusted" at this prayer meeting: Read the blog from Fr Joe Borg, and tell me if you still feel the same way! He IS a religious authority--- and he doesn't seem to have a problem with it! Leave your stereotypes firmly at home, and try acting with the compassion and tolerance that your religion asks of YOU.

Vanessa Pace

May 10th 2009, 13:34

What is everybody's problem on this island? Why is everyone so racist?? What's wrong with people praying in an open public space? What does it matter what language they use to pray?? Prayer is good no matter what form it takes and the religion of the people doing it ... so why create such uneccessary fuss ... ??? All you who comment here against this group of muslims worshipping, are you able to go down on your knees on the sliema front and pray like they do?? Or would that be too humiliating for you? Do you call yourselves catholic/christians, yet you are the first to criticize and confront anybody who wishes to express themselves freely by prayer!! But its okay to gather in groups drinking and making nuisances of yourselves just because you were born on this island!! When will the Maltese ever be able to understand multi-culture and all that goes with it? Why are you all so ignorant and intollerant ... and above all such hypocrits?? No wonder I'm embarrassed to call myself Maltese ... never have I seen such racism in every possible aspect of human beings!!

Carla Vella

May 10th 2009, 13:22

What is the issue? Is it about risk to the public? is it about tolerance levels? is it about Malta image? is it about tourism trade? is it about personal discomfort?

Isobel Mcgonigle

May 10th 2009, 13:13

@
John Borg
If Malta can afford to lose tourists,all well and good,
Like the U.K,give the Muslims the red carpet treatment,pamper to their every whim,
Just see where it gets Malta and the people of Malta in the years to come

Peter James

May 10th 2009, 12:56

The more media attention they get the more they will pray on the streets. They are doing this for attention and it's working.

Bernard Galea

May 10th 2009, 12:44

I just hope that the racists who post on these boards are too busy venting their spleen to leave their homes and be openly discriminatory on the streets. I never thought it would be possible, but I'm slowly beginning to lose my pride in my nation and fellow countrymen (and women).

To those who say 'We can't pray in public in Muslim countries' - 1) Largest Muslim country in the world is Indonesia. Catholics, Jews and all other sorts do as they please there. Ditto Turkey (I lived in both) 2) Two wrongs don't make a right - I thought the whole point was that we (Malta) are BETTER than discrimination and racism. Saudi Arabia forbids women from driving. Should we introduce that piece of legislation too?

To those who ask 'where are our laws' - They had a permit. They broke no laws

To those who say 'It is indecent, it is an outrage' - Since when are my oh-so-pious Maltese brethren outraged by prayer? I thought God wanted us to give him praise. And don't forget that Muslims, Jews and Christians all worship the same God - they just believe the path (cont)

Lawrence Calleja

May 10th 2009, 10:18

Instead of critisizing the police for giving a permit, what do you propose that they should do? If they refuse to give a permit they will be liable in the Constitutional Court for breaching their right to practice their religion both in public or private place. If they issue the permit they are critisized by their own christian neighbours. What should they do? Any comments?

Philip Grech

May 10th 2009, 10:01

Did we have these things when we were being told that we were being taken over by the Libyans in the '70s?

M Scicluna

May 10th 2009, 09:54

If our Church is really in favour of dialogue in this matter, then the parish churches that host a large number of Muslims should make available one of the many properties that it owns.
From my point of view it is not a matter of religion but it is a mater of normal peaceful citizens live in peace, hygiene and security in there own block of apartments whether in Sliema, St. Paul’s Bay or were ever they may be.

A. Mifsud

May 10th 2009, 08:49

@ L. Mule Stagno

It's a fact that every country in the world has its predominant religion. In Malta the predominant religion is Roman Catholicism. Whilst having absolutely no problem with whatever form of faith or beleif, I hope we don't go to the extreme of discussing whether we should in any way restrict our own religion for the sake of being an open multicultural society!

What really troubles my mind in this stance is not the fact that a group of muslims decided to go out on Sliema front to pray. Praying does not harm anybody as far as I 'm concerned - be it in a sign of worship to God or Allah. What bothers me is the sense of subtle confrontation towards the authorities and their blackmailing tactics that these people engage in, in order to have it their way!

Joseph E Briffa

May 10th 2009, 06:19

By the look of things this is nothing else but a public protest in the guise of a public prayer meeting. The group is trying to provoke and would love to have some stupid people insulting them to blow it out of proportion. The best is to ignore them completely. Let's not fall into their trap and behave like the Muslims in their own countries. Let's not be intolerant.

PAUL SMITH

May 10th 2009, 03:05

How interesting to see Muslims kneeling and 'praying' in the direction of Rome instead of Mecca!

Philip B Cortis

May 9th 2009, 21:34

Dear Fellow Maltese

When I went to Mauritius, the most vivid memory I got with me was that it indeed possible to have a country live in harmony when the population is approx 50% Hindu, 25% Muslims and 25% Catholics. They truly live side by side like brothers.

I visited Hindu temples where I was more than accepted. I asked them about their religion and they were more than glad to explain. They insisted to go on the altar and they took me photos. Then they invited me for there Hindu festival the following day. It was nice to see how they celebrate their religion.

I’m a practicing catholic and as a practicing catholic I live with the love and tolerance values. As long at they have the necessary permits, then so be it.

M. Farrugia

May 9th 2009, 21:07

I remember in years gone, during the State/Church schools issue, that a policeman knocked at my door to check whether there was more than 10 attending the lessons given by private schools teachers. May I ask whether the law changed since then. Is a gatehring of 35 or more is to hold a public gathering. allowed if they have no permits

James Formosa

May 9th 2009, 20:21

@L. Mule'Stagno - Of course not!!! But this is a predominatly Roman Catholic country so what do you expect!? Bottom line: Do they have a permit to congregate or not? I imagine they don't - so what are the policemen doing there just staring at them? If what they are doing is illegal then inform them to leave at once. A 2nd warning if they fail to do so and arrest them if they persist. If things get out of hand then riot police could do the trick.

Matthew Saliba

May 9th 2009, 20:09

Oh No! What a shame! What outrage! How dare they!

What a bunch of intolerat hypocrites us Maltese are. First we brainwash our young that Catholicism is the right way (but brainwashing is ok), then we have public displays of our faith, even though there are people who do not share such faith (Maltese people might I add) and then we go to Church and pretend to be holier than thou! But God forbid anyone steps foot on our beloved Sliema front and prays! That's just sacrilegious! Peeople praying in public. OH NO!!

We have hundres of Churches on this tiny rock. Muslims only have one Mosque and they are ALL expected to go there! Flock them all together, we don't care whether they have a car, or time, to get to Paola. That's their problem! But let us build more Churches so that, if possible, we stumble out of our saintly home doors and fall into Church. PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK!

These comments show me how intolerant we are as a nation. Perhaps we all forgot that what makes us Maltese is the history of intercultural mixing, which also gave us our language! THIS IS MALTA! NOTHING CHANGED!

Chris Sammut

May 9th 2009, 19:23

These people decided to Pray in the front because Mepa did not give them permission to use a Flat as a Mosque. So if I apply to mepa to open a Restaurant and I am refused, I should open it on the Sliema front and serve the food there. After all what more rights do these have then me?

A Sciberras

May 9th 2009, 19:19

@ Peter Critien Very well said, Couldn't agree more!!

J. Scerri

May 9th 2009, 18:27

To all those who are not bothered by this...at least, if you have some common sense, you should be bothered by the fact that some are!! I will re-iterate the same thing I said last week...ALL religious manifestations must be confined indoors, otherwise someone will get hurt.

Carmen Ramage

May 9th 2009, 18:25

I am Maltese but live in England and i know only to well how demanding and pushy these people can be. they will be calling themselves Maltese Muslims next loke they do in the UK" British Muslims". These prayer meetings on Sliema front are not about faith or religion. They are making a point, political more than religious "We shall not be moved".
Open your eyes now before it gets out of hand. One English lady i know whose husband worked in Kuwait for 40 years was forbidden to put a cross on his grave when he passed away over there. How touchy they are!

C.Galea

May 9th 2009, 18:08

Why is this an issue?

Are these muslims causing disruptions or inconveniences justifying them the attention of 4 policemen?

If yes... stop and think - How much disruption and inconvenience do certain catholic practices cause to non-catholics?

We have to bear processions, closed public roads, loud brass bands, prayer meetings, healing services, loud-speakers set up in some villages churning out catholic prayers, petards, parking inconveniences, festas, drunks on sunday mornings, having our kids forced to either be taught catholicism at school or nothing at all instead of having generic morality classes ...

Every Saturday an open-air mass is held at Sta Maria Estate. Non-catholics are either forced to listen, or to leave their summer residence.

Should we complain? Perhaps - the noise is more than that generated by 10 muslims......
Do we complain?
NO, because WE TOLERATE.

It's the catholics who won't tolerate even 10 people praying in public to their same god albeit different religion.

Would the police also have been called were there instead 10 old ladies reciting the rosary on the Sliema front???

(Anticipating the question - no I'm not a muslim.)

J S Borg

May 9th 2009, 18:07

Do you know that Allah of the Sunni is different than that of the Shite? Muslims are very relgious people infact they walk a mile to pray together, so that is why they want a mosque in every town and village. the local moslems are very law abiding but unfortunately in their way and not according to the local laws.

Charles Grixti

May 9th 2009, 16:35

@ Mary Borg

Whoever sold us on the benefits of Multiculturalism has perpetrated a great deception.

Multiculturalism is the antithesis of Nationhood or Nation. A country that is segmented or divided into ghettos that do not communicate or trust each other in effect is no longer a Nation. And a house divided against itself cannot stand.

After WWII, the powers that be decided that the way forward was to remove national boundaries and pave the way for globalization. These things did not happen by happenstance but were planned and actively promoted by the Media. Wherever resistance was found, Political Correctness and Anti-Racism laws were quickly drawn up and enforced. So now, even rational and objective discussion of Multiculturalism is taboo and “Multiculturalism” has become the new Sacred Cow and cannot be criticized
But the fact remains that most nations, including you and me and the Maltese people have nothing to gain by Multiculturalism and everything to lose

Stephen Farrugia

May 9th 2009, 16:03

@ Mary Borg

I believe that religion has taken over the state of Malta and we cannot afford to have another religion, that believes, that the state and religion are one. Islam.

Everyone is crossing the red line and now we have a panic in the country with law and order. Our government and opposition are so left wing, that we verge on communism, a totally broke welfare state, based on charity with the lazy and tax the workers.

This is all political madness. With Islam being forceful, how long can Malta remain a free state,always if we are a free state. I mean, media banning has become an everyday business, if you don't agree with having 13 times more immigrants, then any other European state. Now, all we need, are muslims introducing sharia law in our country, which is already in the process, for the financial sector.
We must go back to basic, the state must have the power to defend the country and its own ethnic people.

Carla Vella

May 9th 2009, 14:47

My first thought about this was, "why is there a problem with this temporary practice?" Is it about public safety? environment? public relations? tourist industry? image? personal discomfort?

Mark-Anthony Fenech

May 9th 2009, 13:40

@ L. Mule'Stagno: Most probably not.

martin frendo

May 9th 2009, 13:37

as they say in Rome do as the romans do. now for pete's sake let us not be taken for racists or Christian fundamentalists but following points are cardinal :
A: any other religious denominations in most moslem countries are prohibited or supressed
B: we are a tourist oriented country and such practices doesnt help much ( unless we want to attract more tourist from moslem countries)
C: our nation is built up thanks to our moral and christian beliefs - such should never be forfeited for the sake of freedom of religious practices (after all there is a mosque available)

recomend all to have a look a this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

Martin Farrugia

May 9th 2009, 12:46

The only preoccupation I have about this charade is the negative image it projects of Malta with foreigners. Islam today is associated with violence thanks to their record in tens of countries worldwide as well as in European cities where their numbers have multiplied.
There is no denying that wherever there are Muslims there is conflict.
The only positive thing is that there seems to be fewer of them than last week.

Ian Abela

May 9th 2009, 12:38

Yes, Igalea, we do have laws, and they explicitly allow for the freedom of worship. Also, the fact that these muslims got permission to pray and had police with them kind of gives it away, doesn't it?
On the other hand, we have laws that do not allow the incitement of racial hatred. Please be aware that the reasoning (or rather, lack thereof) is racist, intolerant and bigotted.
A flat cannot be used to pray in you say? tell that to the hundreds of thousands of maltese catholics who say the rosary in their own homes. You don't even know what you're talking about. Is saying the rosary any more legal, or morally better, than practicing Sallat?? (That refers to the Muslim sacred act of prayer, 5 times a day) What makes the rosary better? what makes our processions (which cause public disturbances, and road closures) any better? Please, for once in your life, consider that people may hold other beliefs than your own warped and fundamentally misguided ones. And thank God for that.

malcolm azzopardi

May 9th 2009, 10:00

If we let it to continue happening, in summer they will come to tell us that people sunbathing in bikinis are offending them !!!!!!!!!!!
It must be stopped before it goes out of control!!1

malcolm azzoparadi

May 9th 2009, 09:55

today they are a 15 people next week they will be a 30 and in a years time we won't be able to walk on the pavement.
It has nothing ot do with tolerance or not. This is a catholic country and it should remain so !!!! They should respect MEPAs decision.
So with their reasoning, if I apply with Mepa to bulit flats and it is turned down, I will go to built in protest on the Sliema's front pavement.

Etienne Vella

May 9th 2009, 09:37

@ Mary Borg. I wonder what would have been the reaction of Ms Mary Borg, had they been praying and singing in front of her door or if they were her neighbours.

We should respect everyone's religions however everyone should respect the culture and way of life of the citizens that they are living in the country. I accept that I don't practice by religion in their country, so they should respect us and not do these things in public.

Kenneth Cassar

May 9th 2009, 08:25

@ Franco Farrugia:

I am replying to you because if you are the Franco I know, you are usually a reasonable person and will understand.

Any person who is intolerant of different views and opinions will find the exposure of different views and opinions as "provocation".

For instance, if someone organises an animal rights protest (if you are the Franco I know, you will understand), there will be people who will see this as provocation. But should this be a reason not to give a permit for such a protest? And note that in the case of the animal rights protest, the topic may be controversial (like Spring hunting, for instance). In this case, it is only prayer, and only an intolerant fool finds a problem with prayer.

I also see some police officers in the video. I assume that, like last time, they had a permit.

Get on with your lives, and live and let live.

Denis Bartolo

May 9th 2009, 08:14

@ Luke Gatt

Of course single mothers do not exsist in Muslim countries - they are stoned to death or shot.
Wake up boy - we used to do it in the open in times gone by - no more as we learnt civil manners and respect .

Denis Bartolo

May 9th 2009, 08:07

"If Sliema residence don't like it, they can move to Marsa or Safi where it's more peaceful."
Is Mr Catania saying that Sliema residents should move to Safi or Marsa, lets see what he thinks once this worship starts at his local main square................

Joseph Ellul

May 9th 2009, 08:02

I see no females in the prayer group. Maybe these people are different from the other normal muslims. In Iran at the moment the authorities are hunting down gay persons and improsining them after being reeducated. If they abscond they are taken away and never seen again. Who knows...... Malta has no sexual discrimination but no known homosexual muslim is allowed to pray at Kordin.
Gay muslims are no different from gay christian. Who knows, maybe Malta will become the California of the Mediterranean. Good luck.

Denis Bartolo

May 9th 2009, 07:59

Good - grant them permits to pray in public - grant them all they wish.
How could we be so blind and ignorant - look around us - Italy - France - Belgium- no need to continue.
Seems some have the right to express themselves in prayer - many others do not enjoy the right to express themselves in speech.

What a pityfull state has democratic Europe come to. Need i say more ................

A great way to ruin a country.

Michelle Dali

May 9th 2009, 07:45

@Denis Catania

You say that if the Sliema residents don't like having to watch muslims praying in public they should move to other areas!!!!!!!!!!

That is 100% the wrong attitude. Why should the residents of Sliema have to move because a minority group, which is hell bent on imposing their demands on the authorities, insist on making an exhibition of themselves in a public place of relaxation and entertainment?

There is a mosque in Paola for muslims to pray. Make no mistake, these men don't pray only once every Friday. They do it 5 times a day. This exhibition is nothing but an attempt to see how far they can go with getting their way. This is not about prayer at all!

Kevin Zammit

May 9th 2009, 07:41

@Mary Borg & Co. always so willing to show how open minded and tolerant you can be

Muslim religion is probabaly one of the least tolerant of religions I like most is familiar with especially with respect to women's rights.

It is very cheeky of these people to criticise us a sbeing intolerant. Go one, try to go in the middle of a street in a muslim country and pray loudly so that you can experience yourself how tolerant muslims are. Don't go too far, ask Van Gogh ... er no you cannot he is dead.

THIS WAS CLEARLY AN ACT OF DEFIANCE AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MULTI CULTURAL TOLERANCE.

Ramon Casha

May 9th 2009, 05:36

The flat did not have the proper permits to act as a place of worship, although I personally know of several garages and flats which were converted into unofficial chapels and have serious doubts whether they had the permits to do so.

However, this time they ARE acting within the law - they have their permits to gather, and their right to worship is guaranteed by the constitution, whether or not the same would apply in Saudi Arabia or other countries. Are people suggesting we should emulate countries that are notorious for their human rights abuses?

If people don't want to see Muslims pray in public, then they should be allowed to pray in private - in a building with proper permits - which is within a reasonably distance.

John cassar

May 9th 2009, 02:33

From Australia I watch and read in horror that the authoritiies are allowing this to happen. Where will it end? Everyone is free to worship their god but it must be done in their place of worship that has been done following the correct laws. It is not a flat or wherever they feel like worshiping. It cannot be allowed to continue. Soon the streets will be over run by public prayer meetings. Remember, Malta is a predominant christian and catholic country and the law of the lands must be adhered to. Why noy get them to sign a declaration or otherwise, tell them to leave! Tell them to go to Mecca. Will the christians be allowed to pray in the open in Dubai or Saudi?

A. Sultana

May 9th 2009, 02:12

Catholic Churches should open their doors for anybody who wants to pray irrelevant of their religion and believe. We have enough temples of worship on the island we don't need more "flats" or water fronts turned into churches, mosques, temples or whatever we choose to call them. Let us truly be inclusive and for once make God an instrument of peace not conflict.

Stephen Borg Cardona

May 9th 2009, 01:47

Its about time we stopped having religion forced down our throats. No more praying in public, no more extra loud church bells at Five am , no more bombi. Church and state should be separate.

a attard

May 9th 2009, 01:43

What happened to the Mosque in Paola? Has it shut down?....Its not like they have to get a plane and a train - I used to travel double the distance to hear a Catholic mass in the UK when I lived in the midlands and never made a show in the middle of a pavement - can anyone imagine having a Christian manifastation in the middle of Cairo, Tripoli or Algiers? - these people just need to grow up and stop acting like little silly kids...........

Piero Timpano

May 9th 2009, 01:16

Are these people murdering Maltese in the streets? maybe mugging a few old ladies? no. they are PRAYING. Please let me remind all those critics.. The Constitution of Malta provides for freedom of religion. That means they have as much right to pray in public as the Maltese have to make the sign of the cross when they enter a bus, a blatantly OPEN form of praying that happens THOUSANDS of time a day, all over the island!

p.grima

May 9th 2009, 01:04

They were probably praying the following verses straight from the Qur' an:

Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”

Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends.”

Qur’an 72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”

I seem to sense some intolerance here from this "religion of peace".

Further comment is superfluous.

Paul Pace

May 9th 2009, 00:59

Not sure what the fuss is about - and even why The Times is reporting this.

Have they harmed anyone or caused any damage? No.

One has o go to paceville during the weekend and see what the "Catholic" teenagers are doing....

Just leave them to pray if they want to pray. I don't care, to be honest.

Marlene Vella

May 9th 2009, 00:29

Peter Critien, stop it or I'll simply implode laughing! Did you ever hear about the so called Crusades? Political and Military Missionaries? How did Christianity come to Malta itself after all? Or do you want to dismantle M(e)dina now while you're at it? Where do you think the Catholic Church is gaining numbers if not Africa itself? You have to live within your limits to know the legal and religious geography of Asia. LOL. If you love shock so much have a look at these videos and articles regarding the holiest landmarks in Christianity, Islam and Judaism. The sepulchre of Jesus Christ himself. Shame on all those who take their religion beyond their own journey in life. We could all so do without religious politics ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, INCLUDING SLIEMA OF COURSE.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7719843.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7676332.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7357496.stm

M Scicluna

May 8th 2009, 22:51

Tolerate means 'To permit without protest or interferance"
So if we are expected to tolerate, what is expected of those whom we will tolerate.
The exception should not become rule.

Robert Callus

May 8th 2009, 22:20

@R. Agius
Very good point. Unlike you I'm not a Roman Catholic but an agnostic. I believe in freedom of worship (as long as the law is not broken) and respect all religions as well as so called sects(Such as Jehovah witnesses). I've seen both 'good' and 'bad' people in literally every sect or religion I've met in my life.

The argument that in Muslim countries a Catholic is not allowed this or that is flawed. It's only in some countries that this happens. By the same measure, there were countries were atheists/agnostics imposed on people of any religion to practice, such as the former Soviet Union. I completely condemn what they did. But is it my fault that some agnostics in a faraway land imposed their beliefs? Should my own freedom be denied because agnostic Chinese limit and control Tibetan Buddists?
It would be quite unfair don' t you think so

What 'belligrant cultural invasion' are you talking about? A few man praying? Sending troops to Cechnea, or Tibet, or forced settlements in Palestine backed by troops are cultural invasions. Things like these 35 men are doing take place in every democracy

S. Caruana

May 8th 2009, 21:34

If as Mr Charles Sammut stated, they do have a permit , fine. However I still find all this incredible since a mosque does exist in Malta and it's only a bus ride away. If this were a one off organized event similar to our much appreciated christian outreaches, it would be understandable and why not accepted, however it seems like it's not and therefore yes it sounds like a cause for major concern.

A.Gauci Cunningham

May 8th 2009, 21:04

OK lets say that what these people are doing is a little in your face but so is someone who comes putting up a loudspeaker under my balcony and ,whether I like it or not, have to end up listening to a chorus of old ladies saying the rosary three days before some procession !!! I have every respect for the fact that Malta is Catholic (in figures not in lifestyle) but it seems that as these Muslims seem to have no respect towards those who feel differently to them so do some others who seem to think that Malta is in the next step towards being the next Vatican!!!!!!!

Religous fundamentalism ,whether Catholic or Muslim, is something I really, really hate and it is precisely the Catholic fundamentalists (the minority of this country mind you!!) who are the ones responsable for many people suffering injustices and many others living in a legal jungle!! As Jesus said "those who have no fault throw the first stone"...........I see no stones yet!!!!!!

Anthony Magri

May 8th 2009, 20:57

Some refer how Muslim countries would threat Catholics praying publicly. They suggest Malta does the same thus lowering Malta to that same level.
Praying in public is frequent in Malta but needs an authorization. In this instance the presence of police officers presumes it was authorized. However making the place a permanent rendezvous of worship is unacceptable. They should change place each time.
Another suggestion: rent a private place where public events are authorized: a gaming hall, a wedding hall, a conference hall, a club hall, a night club hall etc. They will probably find what and where to rent, provided they pay for each occasional meeting. Nobody would notice and they will be readily authorized to hold their prayer meeting.
Is it far fetched to suggest that the Catholic Church lends them a place where to pray such as in one of its abandoned churches? There they will not be disturbed, and no disruption of Catholic activities. This would apply if far from Pawla mosque.
Are we not witnessing common prayers in different places of worship, Catholic church, synagogue, mosque etc? Where there is a will there is a way. The controversy will stop.

Gerry Cowie

May 8th 2009, 20:51

Here in the UK there are many mosques and we live side by side with those of other faiths who get on with their own religions.

I am astounded at the veiled racism and anti-muslim feeling expressed in these blogs. Yes, it is true that it would not be so easy for christians to act as they wished in a muslim country. Yet are not christians called upon to be tolerant of others? Surely the very fact that christians tolerate other religions should in itself be an example to the people practising those other faiths.

What seems to be behind the majority of comments on this blog is perhaps rather the fear of terrorism and the desire of some fundementalist extremists to islamicize the world and subject it to Shari'a Law.

It is important to strike a balance, of course. But let's try to set others an example rather than berate them for the example they are giving to us.

Isobel McGonigle points out that all is not well in the UK. However it is important not to inflame an already delicate situation. Not all muslims are fundementalists and few are terrorists.

"They'll know we are christians by our love."

Emilio Galea

May 8th 2009, 20:17

The following is not to condone or approve of what is happening but to clarify things. I do agree with what many are saying, that these men should go to their mosque.
HOWEVER...you are quite wrong to say that in Muslim countries they are all unsympathetic.
I live in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates (many of you would know Dubai). We have our own Roman Catholic Church, St. Joseph's (www.stjosephsabudhabi.org) and we also have a Bishop of Abu Dhabi (Bishop Paul). We have all the services and hold open air masses on special occasions like Christmas and Easter. I have a rosary bead dangling from my car mirror. I have a colleague in the office whose space we call the shrine as she has numerous holy pictures displayed. Not all Muslim countries are like Saudi.
Again, I do not condone or apporve what is being done, but please be informed before talking

Joe Morana

May 8th 2009, 20:10

Evidently there are fundamentalists in both the Muslim and the Roman Catholic religions while both relgions worship the same GOD. What is so bad in a cilvilised country for a minority to peacefully and orderly express its beleifs? I am confident that many Maltese citizens have experienced worse disturbance/inconvenience form Catholic public gatherings/ celebrations than from this small group of Muslims praying.

P.Pulis

May 8th 2009, 19:57

Would someone watching this event while eating a hotdog be considered as 'offending the sentiments' of these worshipers?

Joseph Caruana

May 8th 2009, 19:39

.. nasty comments for this peacful gathering which btw is much less than what we do during our celebrations. looking at it from an individual perspective. they don't bother me at all. why should they?

Joe Xuereb

May 8th 2009, 19:25

What could be more peaceful that a person, anywhere, praying. The sheer calm, decorum, dignity, unobtrusiveness, the aura of sanctity. I am an atheist and yet I say all this with sincerety. Because I have been there. But what amazez me, disturbs and concerns me is that many see it as this but seem incapable of seeng the context surrounding these prayers. Is it so difficult to gain insight into the background to all this? Is a little basic analysis so beyond reach? Is denial, the inability to think, so strong? What will it take for these people to read, no, not the writing on the wall but the big letters, etched deep in high relief like the designs of the sacred stones at Hal Saflieni? What WILL it take? Is the Maltese nation as a people so utterly bereft of imagination and the will to survive? Resting on one's laurels will not work this time round.

D.Galea

May 8th 2009, 19:24

One doesn't need to wonder why Malta should become totally secular, as it is any action against these Muslims is religious discrimination.

A. Muscat

May 8th 2009, 19:22

Many of these peoples will vote in coming MEP election.
They are doing nothing wrong in terms of our laws.
The Mosque vs. the Church.

Can we calm down and ask ourselves how many Churches and chaplets are there to accommodate The MALTESE Catholic worshippers and Catholic visitors? How many mosques are there to abominate the slim residents Muslims and Muslim visitors population? With little calculation, Muslims need more mosques.


The Mosque vs. the Church.

Are you aware that we have the 150-year-old Maria Immacolata church in Benghazi, Libya? So, for the Libyans or Muslims to have a 20 years old Mosque in Malta isn’t an issue at all, yet its a long overdue obligation I presume.

Pauline Thompson

May 8th 2009, 19:16

Well said G Schembri. I read alot of the comments about various issues. I can not believe how racists the majority of the Maltese people are and tend to ignore them. Skin colour, religion, shape or size. They find it very difficult to accept anything or anyone different from what they are used to. This group of Muslim people were praying to their God in private but their neighbours complained to the point that the authorities found it necessary to close their place of worship. Therefore, they have decided to excercise their faith in public which I don't see what the problem is all about. Someone suggested to advertise it as a tourist attraction. It sounds to me more like a Maltese attraction as the way some carry on is as if they have never seen anything - they don't look, they STARE. Yes, the majority of the Maltese people are Catholics but very few are true ones. You only have to read the comments some express in this paper to recognise the hatred. Learn to live and let live!

gaffarena joseph

May 8th 2009, 19:08

One mosque is more than enough for our small island.So, every friday we are going to witness
this site in sliema.Hope that their is no hidden agenda ,because they can freely go to their big
mosque in Paola.
Come on,enough is enough.

Joseph Seisun

May 8th 2009, 19:04

@ G Schembri @ R Agius

You're both misled. Muslims do not believe in our God. Ask a priest to explain the major difference concerning the Holy Trinity.

MSciberras

May 8th 2009, 19:02

The government has got to take a stand. A flat is not a mosque or a church or synagogue it is a place of residence. And the Sliema front is a place of public recreation. This has nothing to do with freedom of expression. In a civil society laws are there to be observed and one cannot just convert a flat into any other use other than residential. The argument that if 35 Catholics gathered in any public place in any muslim country to our south they would be arrested and worse is interesting but irrelevant. This is a question of laws and people of different faiths living together and respecting the common laws that bind us all in a democracy. There is a mosque in Malta with the required permits; opening a church similarly requires a permit. The Maltese expect their government to put an end to this. Can a household decide to convert its home into a bar or a restaurant - or a church? Would you like to buy a flat knowing that any other flat owner can decide one day to use his flat for a public purpose? Or the promenade in front of your home?

L. Mule'Stagno

May 8th 2009, 19:01

Would we be having this discussion if there were people singing (Christian) hymns on the front or an open air mass?

Phil Humphries

May 8th 2009, 18:43

@ Isobel Mcgonigle.

The tip of the iceberg ? - How right you are. - It sounds like you also grew up in pre-Islamic Britain and witnessed the rapid and irrevocable changes that multiculturalism brought to the UK. Perhaps, like me, you do not wish to see proudly Christian Malta go the same way.

From the comments below it is clear that most can see the writing on the wall, however, it is also apparrent that there are a few naive integrationists with their heads in the clouds. For the moment, Malta's unique character, heritage and people remain the sources of its tourism appeal and the lifeblood of the economy; however, if the liberal multiculturalists ( and the property developers ) have their way then Malta risks becoming just another monochrome state of the world and its appeal will be lost forever. If that should happen, then God help us all.

emanuel muscat

May 8th 2009, 18:43

What is stopped these islamists from going to the Paola mosque?They have annoyed their neighbours and so they have to abide by the law of the land!Since they are insisting with their behaviour , it is a matter of taking a few photographs checking whether they have visas and in that case revoking the visas and send them back to their repressive(for the christians!) countries.

K Farrugia

May 8th 2009, 18:36

Try do this same stuff in a muslim country if you're catholic and see what happens to you. All this Political correctness and etiquette and respect towards other cultures is leaving no culture diversity any longer. We are simply turning into a one-culture (predominantly muslim) world

John Attard

May 8th 2009, 18:27

After your reporter left another 50 arrived.
And this even under protection af some 6 policeman.
This is going to cost Malta a lot of tourists and even a lot spending ex-patriots are going to leave because of whats going here.

Joe Fenech

May 8th 2009, 18:26

This is what happens when governments are pathetic and lousy!

Terence Bell

May 8th 2009, 18:22

I was always under the impression Muslims had to face east, towards Mecca, to pray and not north as this lot do in the video. It seems they've lost more than just a flat, their orientation as well

Abdul Hafis

May 8th 2009, 18:21

Why no pray?? If we bomb we bad!! If we pray we bad!! What you want from us?? You Christains always think you good!! We do no bad! We just pray to God, like you in streets with saints of stone. God bless you all. Alla u l-akbar.

D.Galea

May 8th 2009, 18:09

This country needs freedom of religion, but it ALSO needs freedom FROM religion. Why should my path on the front be obstructed in such a way!? Why not simple provide themselves with their own private space to practice their religion!? The argument that they should use their apartment as a mosque is a right I defend as long as it doesn't cause any outside disturbance, after all there is no need to shout at the top of your lungs for God/Allah to hear you.

Joe Fenech

May 8th 2009, 18:09

LAUGHABLE!!!!

Everyone knows these people come in as guest and take over your house! Can't they make the journey to Paola??? It's only a couple of kilometres away!!! I wonder how Martin tal-Gelat hasn't complained yet. He must be losing business because of this!!

Ronald Cauchi

May 8th 2009, 18:06

People keep mentioning the fact that a Christian couldnt stand in the middle of a square in Saudi Arabia and start praying. But surely what makes us superior, more democratic and civilised is that muslims can do things here that in most of the Moslem world would be banned if not punishable. As a non believer I have been bothered and annoyed over the years by public manifestions of the christian faith but I would never dream of asking to have them banned or somehow limited. To paraphrase someone wiser than I " I might not agree with you but I will fight to the death to defend your right to be different"

John Borg

May 8th 2009, 18:05

Isobel: if any tourists feel that their holiday may be ruined if they meet Muslims in Malta then they should go somewhere else.

Margaret Richards

May 8th 2009, 18:00

I hate extreme religious fundamentalism of all type, coming from where it's coming. Mind you I also hate the Maltese holier than thou attitude. What i don't tolerate is doing nasty things in the name of any religion.and stupid veiled threats like the ones of last Friday. But actually since I know for a fact that freedom of religion (not extremism) is a fundamental freedom, there is not much to comment about. Freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of media, freedom of religion - are all part of the Int'l Declaration of Human Rights.

John Borg

May 8th 2009, 17:57

These comments are really amusing. You can swear and blaspheme your head off in public and no one will dare say anything. But a few dozen Muslims praying on the Sliema seafront and the half the island is outraged. Give me a break!

J. Schembri

May 8th 2009, 17:52

Evidently these are foreigners who are living in Malta. They have a right to pray , but they cannot occupy part of a promenade every Friday.
This looks more like a statement , if they really wanted to pray they would have assembled in the Corradino Mosque together with their brothers.
Catholics pray in public but normally they do such things in their homeland. In Islamic countries if Christians are caught assembling secretly to celebrate mass , they will be deported immediately.
Should we tolerate intolerant people?

v.pulis

May 8th 2009, 17:45

@G.Schembri
Let me make it clear from the outset. I'm in no way religious but I 'm fed up of hearing the same song about better a praying muslim than a drunken christian. You focus on the negative side of christian celebration but ommit to mention the cultural beauty of our feasts.
If i were to reason like you I would forget the praying muslims and mention the suicide bombers who detonate themselves among rival muslims. What frightens people is the fact that muslim countries do not distinguish between religion and state. Do you want to live under sharia law?

Franco Farrugia

May 8th 2009, 17:31

Ms McGongle: ' cannot understand why this is bothering so many people. Don't we all believe in the same God?'
That is not the point, dear lady. The point is that they have appropriate places to pray in. This is provocation. And the authorities are TERRIFIED of taking action.

joseph cachia

May 8th 2009, 17:26

Att. J.MIFSUD
As you are'nt a teenager how come you seen these drunkards roaming the streets at night.
These teenagers are MALTESE and any immoral act is a shame on their parents.

Having these HOTHEADS performing theatrical action in our country MALTA is disgusting and
criminal offence against our constitution, aswell disrespect to all MALTESE.

The culprit is MY HYPOCRITE GOVERNMENT and the COUNCILS who are behaving like
MONKEYS. (hear nothing-see nothing-smell nothing).

MARY BORG.
No, we the MALTESE don't like and won't accept it. Should you want to be multicultural and
forward no one is holding you to invite them to use your home.
Of course we are democrats, will you let me decorate your living room to my personal preferable colour???

Joseph Seisun

May 8th 2009, 17:18

@ G.Schembri

No, we don't believe in the same God. According to our Christian faith, Jesus is the Son of God the Father, the promised Messiah, who saved humanity 2000 years ago. Muslims don't believe this. That is a fundamental difference!!
Thus Muslims don't believe in our God!

malcolm seychell

May 8th 2009, 17:15

This Morning I gave a press conference in this area.

Myself and the Political Party I represent are against this.

People should pray in a church or a mosque and not in the streets especially tourist areas.

It is a shame that the government is issuing such permits.

It is going to affect negatively our tourist industry. Tourists in the area were disgusted at what is happening to our country.

Joe Xuereb

May 8th 2009, 17:09

@ Joanne Micallef. You may be right. For some praying is psychologically beneficial and harmless enough. However, you may or may not be familiar with the quip: 'be careful what you pray for. It might come true'. Just food for thought.

Norman Vella

May 8th 2009, 17:04

I just can't see the point of all this fuss.
Are we are becoming a nation that doesn't tolerate a group of men praying?
If this is the culture you folks are ‘defending’, well, I'm longing for the day when it’s gone!

Julian Zarb

May 8th 2009, 17:03

Ok, let us take this outside the context or parameters of anything racist or illegal and consider the bare facts...these people are meeting in a public place to pray (why?...what is wrong with their own places of worship?); this sort of thing smacks of the reference in the bible to the hypocrits in the temple who stood at the front beating their breasts and praying aloud so as to be seen (are these mimicking the whitwewashed sepulchres in that reference?) and finally,... this is a Catholic country and we need to make sure the rest of the world appreciates THAT fact and respects OUR culture.....

john micallef

May 8th 2009, 17:02

the boys in blue were there, but could not do anything cause our politicians want it that way. keep this in mind when voting in the next MEP elections

Michelle Dali

May 8th 2009, 17:00

This is not an issue of freedom to practice one's religion. They can do that in the Paola mosque. There is a time and a place for everything and the Sliema promenade is not a place for muslims to congregate.

Joe Xuereb

May 8th 2009, 16:56

@ Mary Borg. You have seen your name in print so you feel mighty fine. BUT. Multiculturalism is fine. Except that in a tiny state like Malta, with a very fragile (make no mistake) identity, a belligerent cultural invasion that operates under the guise of prayer will oust the host culture in the time it takes to say.......... Sorry, I could not word it more simply. If you do not understand, you will have to ask. Be careful who you ask. @ J. Mifsud. Half naked youth roaming the street are indeed disgusting anywhere. But they do not threaten the country's security. If nothing else because most would be accountable to decent parents so their anarchic ways are somewhat restricted. Of course for you to start to begin to see the threat in a few men, simply(?) by praying, I am afraid you will have to learn to read between the lines. You have a lot of homework still to do Mr. Mifsud.

Robert Galea

May 8th 2009, 16:55

@ Peter Critien Very well said, your absolutely right. Chips..!

vaughan whitehead

May 8th 2009, 16:53

wake up malta and look at the mess england is in with muslims malta will be a carbon copy of england unless you sort the muslims out now do not make the mistakes we have made

Luke Gatt

May 8th 2009, 16:49

Multi-culturalism is good, muslims praying in the open do not bother me. The Maltese used to do it a lot in the past and no one said anything. What bothers me is pollution, noise, traffic, drug pushers in the street, lack of manners...but people praying to God in the street? Why should they bother me? Why should they bother any Catholic after all many of them do not bother to go to church anymore, we are top of the European league for single mothers, separations are as many as the stars...now really should anyone feel really bothered by Muslims praying in the open? Come on...give us a break!

R. Agius

May 8th 2009, 16:47

I strongly believe in the freedom of expression and freedom to chose which religion to practice. I am a Roman Catholic but I have no problem whatsoever with Muslims praying on the seafront or in their flat for all that matters as long as they do not disturb anyone. Many Christians in Malta gather up in their home to pray or to say the rosary.

True, in SOME (not all) predominantly Muslim countries it is unacceptable for non-Muslims to practice their religion. But look at the state of human rights (especially women's) in those countries. Let us not follow those countries' example and be more tolerant towards other humans. Let Muslims practice their beliefs. After all it is the same God that we christians worship they are praying to.

John Borg

May 8th 2009, 16:46

In the past, I have worked in many of the Northern African countries and without sounding intolerant to other religions, I can assure all and sundry that I was many a time frownd upon and even spat at for simply signing the cross first thing in the morning before starting a journey during my times there. As for daring to hold an open air mass in a popular town square.... simply not worth the risk of jail or most probably worse. You can make your own conclusions.

Alex Coppola

May 8th 2009, 16:45

@ A Abela
And who is going to finance this mosque in Sliema? Perhaps Gaddafi or any other muslim leader?!

Isobel Mcgonigle

May 8th 2009, 16:42

Believe you me,these Muslim men praying on the Sliema front is doing your tourist industry no favours at all,as far as the British tourist is concerned.
In the U.K ,there are people of different religions,Seiks,Hindus,etc,never ever a problem with other religions except for the followers of Islam.
With 7/7 in London,plus various Muslim terror cells uncoverd,not forgetting Britains heritage,culture being slowly erroded away ,so as not to offend the Muslim population,I can assure you,the Muslim faith is not exactly flavour of the month ,in the eyes of the Non-Muslim British citizen.
They fully understand the controversy they caused in their last show of defiance against the vast majority of the Maltese population. This is the tip of the coming iceberg. You've already given them an inch, next they will demand the full 10 yards.

Denis Catania

May 8th 2009, 16:42

The Muslim community should help them obtain a legal place to worship. If this is legal, let them be. If Sliema residence don't like it, they can move to Marsa or Safi where it's more peaceful.

G.Schembri

May 8th 2009, 16:41

I cannot understand why this is bothering so many people. Don't we all believe in the same God? So they have their own way of praying, let them be. Let's face it, it's not as noisy as the Festa fireworks we Catholics have all summer long. I'd rather see them praying on the Sliema front than seeing some so called Catholics getting drunk and insulting each other in the name of their patron saint on Sunday morning.
The thing I dislike about so many different religions is when they knock on my door and try to convert me to their religion, (I don't believe the Muslims do that actually) even when I say I'm not interested.

Franco Farrugia

May 8th 2009, 16:37

I hate to say this, ... but this is provocation. This can turn into something serious.
Isn't there a law that states that there cannot be a congregation of more than 3-4 people or something to that effect?
What do certain columnists have to say to this? If it had been Gift of Life or Katakumeni or some other Roman Catholic prayer group, what would these columnists have had to say? Or the authorities, for that matter.
This has to be stopped because it can turn pretty sour. Mark my words!

Peter Critien

May 8th 2009, 16:33

What's Ms Mary Borg trying to say that we should accept Muslims praying on the Sliema front now too... if you're fine with it go live in Pakistan or some place similair where there are no laws.
Democracy is about being free but now about doing whatever one decides to do.
This issue with these people praying is just another problem the autorities must deal with.
I cant understand one simple thing, do we ever hear of issues with Roman Catholics causing an issue with their prayers in a muslim country or a Buddist in a country where any other religion in the main religion ??? NO WE DONT and I'LL TELL YOU WHY BECAUSE WE ARE TO TOLERANT AND WE DONT TRY AND IMPOSE OUR RELIGION ONTO THEM.
They should thank their lucky stars they have ONE mosque and either go there to pray or get out of Malta.

Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi

May 8th 2009, 16:28

@ Mary Borg,

"Multiculturalism is the way forward for Malta whether you all like it or not."

Way forward for what?
So we can lose our nation to hostile alien cultures !

Robert Caruana

May 8th 2009, 16:26

So are some people commenting here expecting modern European Malta to behave like some intolerant countries do? Are some suggesting that we should emulate Riyahd? If they are breaking any law (e.g. no police permit) then yes action should be taken and they should be stopped. After all action was taken when the flat was being used as a place of worship against regulations. But if no laws are being broken and they have the necessary permits then they have every right to pray at the sliema front or wherever.

What is illegal is illegal and what is legal is legal - to those who do not like it - tough luck - whether these may be muslims who expect to use a flat as a mosque without permits or whether they may be maltese who do not tolerate external manifestations of other religions.

John Inguanez

May 8th 2009, 16:21

We have religious freedom, and that's why they have a Mosque. So public trasport is cheap and they can go to Corradino. There so called mosque in Chalet had no permit for a mosque. They must abide by our laws. In time, they will administer the sharia in public.

Aimee Fenech

May 8th 2009, 16:16

Why are they not using their mosque?

Mary Borg

May 8th 2009, 16:14

Multiculturalism is the way forward for Malta whether you all like it or not. This is a democratic country.

C Borg

May 8th 2009, 16:14

This is unacceptable! This is a Catholic country and we must stop this like they would stop us! We should be strong and respect our culture! Actions needs to be taken and stop letting them do what they want! And are the police there to protect them??

Paul Farrugia

May 8th 2009, 16:11

Ma nistax ma nikumentax wara li tara dal filmat, murgibna li kieku nghajxu go post musulman u nghamlu xi quddiesa f post pubbliku. Gej l istagun tas sajf u il ftit turisti li ghadhom jigu ma nixtieqx li ngerxuhom imhabba din il haga, min irrid jitlob immur il moskea, mhux idejjaq lilna l maltin go artna. Nittama li l awtoritajiet jiccaqalqu min hemm ghaz issa zejjed.

J. Mifsud

May 8th 2009, 16:09

We should be disgusted not with a few people praying but with many teenagers roaming the streets at night half naked and drunk.

Trevor Lorenzo Mizzi

May 8th 2009, 16:07

The sight of the mighty bastions of Valletta and Floriana tells me all I need to know concerning this issue.

R.CAMILLERI

May 8th 2009, 16:06

WHERE ARE THE BOYS IN BLUE!!!!!! THE SLIEMA POLICE STATION IS NOT SO FAR OFF.

anthony cassar

May 8th 2009, 16:06

Unbelievable !!!!!
Do we have LAWS in Malta ?

h.j.zammit

May 8th 2009, 16:06

When are they going to demand the use of St. John's Con-Cathedral ? When that day comes, and it will come, then and only then will we realise what we gave away. The writing is on the wall.

Martin Cassar

May 8th 2009, 16:06

I think the police have much more important things to do!,. Praying outdoors this time of the year is not bad, I will love to see them in Agust sun!!!!!!!.

Therese Zammit

May 8th 2009, 16:03

This is totally unacceptable; my fiance works in Libya and once apparantly he was going to the only Church he knows about in Tripoli and his driver cautioned him that they could kill him for seeing him enter the church. This is what would happen if people decide to worship another God on their land but they are so arrogant that for them to pray at Sliema front, is ok!!!!

Joe Galea

May 8th 2009, 16:00

If we go in a muslim country and start praying in the street, most probably we would be tortured and killed. Why these muslims are left to do such a thing in public. They have the mosque and should go there. This is a Christian country and its ours not theirs.

Christopher Camilleri

May 8th 2009, 15:59

This is just the beginning. There will come a time where Catholic symbols, festas, and religious processions will be removed in order not to offend the Muslim community who by that time will be larger and more influent.

Malta will very soon become a multi-cultural society.

R Vella

May 8th 2009, 15:59

This is the beginning.... of the end, poor Malta ! :(

v.pulis

May 8th 2009, 15:58

@A Abela
'One should seriously consider the construction of a Mosque in Sliema.'

And that is preciseley what the muslim community is demanding.
Some time ago I remember a prominent muslim arguing that in Malta every town and village has at least two churches so why shouldn't muslims have more than one mosque?
That is where this protest is leading. Look at what is happening all over Europe. political correctness is going to be the ruin of our Western culture. Tolerance must work both ways if it is to succeed.

Andrew Gauci

May 8th 2009, 15:56

@ A Abela - "One should seriously consider the construction of a Mosque in Sliema"

Are you serious?

One is more than enough! If we are to build plenty of mosques around the island we're basically welcoming more of the...who knows... at this rate maybe one day we'll be considered a muslim country!

Charles Sammut

May 8th 2009, 15:55

@ J Attard

Yes they have a police permit. I was there this morning from 11 am to attend a press conference by Azzjoni Nazzjonali. They were asked to dismantle their banner by 12 noon because there would be this islamic prayer meeting and I suppose it would have been considered a provocation.

The place was crawling with uniformed and plain clothes police including some high ranking officers possible because of the not so veiled threat of an uncontrolled backlash should they be provoked.

R.Gatt

May 8th 2009, 15:51

ROFL!

I wonder what would happen if a group of Roman Catholics gathered at the seafront and recited the rosary aloud at the same time that the muslims are gathered in prayer.

emmanuel zammit

May 8th 2009, 15:48

GO TO SAUDI AND TRY TO PRAY AS WE DO !!!AND SEE HOW IT END UP!!!
WAKE UP !!!!MALTA

J.Spiteri

May 8th 2009, 15:45

Stamp out the fire BEFORE IT SPREADS ! Let nobody make a mockery of our traditions and beliefs. Are the authorities AFRAID to act ? Christian churches in muslim countries are prohibited, so why must we tolerate muslim practices in OUR country ? What is the position of the Maltese Diocese with regards to these developments?

W Spencer

May 8th 2009, 15:45

@ D Scerri, you are quite correct, its the beginning. The UK has seen it all before, but were too afraid to do anything about it, and now the minorities rule !!! The same will happen to Malta if you give them an inch !!

@Antoine Grima, you may think it is amusing now, but be assured that you will not find it so amusing in the future.

A. Saliba

May 8th 2009, 15:45

This is an outrage! Since when is it permissible to.. erm... pray... in public?

Oh right, since always.

Joanne Micallef

May 8th 2009, 15:44

They are doing this in order to have their flat back, a flat which was illegally used as a place of worship for years, causing a serious inconvenience to the rest of the tenants in that particular block. Let them be, after all they are just praying, and praying no matter the Religion is always a good thing.

Daniel Russell

May 8th 2009, 15:42

This is out of order.
I agree with other bloggers on this, would such behaviour be tolerated by Muslims in other countries?
Come on Government of Malta, wake up and do something about this before there is a backlash.

J attard

May 8th 2009, 15:39

Do they have a Police Permit to do so???? Malta wake up, its getting too much now.

Carmel Borg

May 8th 2009, 15:32

I am sure that such action will do a lot of good to our tourism industry. And they say that the Maltese are not tolerant. Everyone seems to do whatever they like in Malta., except the Maltese. Thats great.

stephen farrugia

May 8th 2009, 15:26

Do the Maltese understand that nobody can tell them what to do with their country, not even the church.

lgalea

May 8th 2009, 15:24

A flat is for residential purposes not for a church, mosque or whatever.
don't they realize that we have laws in our country?
They are just defying the people and the authorities and holding them at ransom to give them what they cannot.
Why are the authorities allowing such defiance?

A Abela

May 8th 2009, 15:23

One should seriously consider the construction of a Mosque in Sliema.

mario gellel

May 8th 2009, 15:20

The police should take action at once against these people.They are making a mock of us.They know very well that if they want to exercize their religion,they can go to Paola moskea . At the end of the story,none of them are Maltese,if they dont like it,they are free to go.

D. Scerri

May 8th 2009, 15:15

This is just the beginning.

Joseph Cauchi

May 8th 2009, 15:14

.

If these Muslims want to pray in public right at the heart of Malta’ tourism centre and think they are going to annoy the Maltese citizens, I must tell them that they are mistaken.

We do not give a hoot what they do or where they pray. If they like they can go and pray right in the middle of the sea if they want to.

If they think that these manifestations are a means of provoking the authorities – MEPA - or the Maltese citizens, I think one should warn them that these tactics won’t work here.

Keep doing what you want, but do not break our laws, please.

../..

Criss Camilleri

May 8th 2009, 15:13

I have nothing against their religion, as a matter of fact I do not care, but persoanlly I think that this will be getting out of hand very soon, as many others, and of different Religios, will follow them all over the Island. This is an excuse, 'until MEPA opens our flat', as they should use their Official place at Corradino, or, they can even hire a Conference room/Hall in a hotel etc., the way other believers do.

Joseph Seisun

May 8th 2009, 15:11

So this is turning into the Maltese saying, "Mis-sebgha jiehdu l'id".
I just hope that our Church leaders intervene on this matter. While everyone has the right of freedom of religion, one must respect our country's identity. The vast majority of Maltese are Christians. Every single town or village contains at least one Christian church, not to mention the innumerable Christian chapels all over our islands. Our national flag, our national anthem and our constitution all reflect our Christianity.

James De Giorgio

May 8th 2009, 15:09

Which is WHY I won't be voting nationalist these elections.

They aren't doing anything about these very visible islamic immigrant problems. Call me what you like, I simply DON'T like this.

Antoine Grima

May 8th 2009, 15:08

I don't blame them.Better view than inside a flat

duncan Tanti

May 8th 2009, 15:06

Could someone enlight me if its still illegal for 10 or more person to gather in a corner or somewhere?Because when I was younger and we used to go to paceville thats what the police used to tell us.correct me if I am mistaken

GEORGE CUTAJAR

May 8th 2009, 15:04

As far as I am aware a congregation in excess of ten people requires a police permit. Was one issued.
I have absolutely no problem with any faith Muslin, Christian, Jewish, Kaballah etc. etc. however I do have a big problem when persons from any faith decide they have some divine right to worship in a public place challenging the beliefs of other faiths. I can just imagiine a Catholic or a Jew praying in public in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.
These Friday gatherings on the Sliema Front are an affront to all non-muslims and somebody in authorty should explain to these people that there place on Friday is at the Mosque in Korradino and not on the Sliema Front.
Come Summer I hope they do not expect tourists and locals to stop swimming or Sliema Waterpolo Pitch to close down while they pray. This is simply not on and the authorities should intervene and put a stop to this.
The Sliema Front is a recreational zone and should not become a makeshift place of worship for any religion.

Chris Borg

May 8th 2009, 15:02

There is a time and place for everything.

The time might be right but the place is the large mosque they have with a carpark, football ground, playground and drive way on each side.

Are we to understand that this is a sect of islam and do not pray with other muslims?

T Mifsud

May 8th 2009, 14:58

This is UNACCEPTABLE!!!

WHERE ARE THE AUTHORITIES? MEPA Don't be weak now and don't give in!

WHERE IS THE GOVERNMENT?!! WHERE ARE THE POLICE?

Mario Tabone-Vassallo

May 8th 2009, 14:57

Ir-Religjonijiet f'Malta kollha hielsa, manku hekk id-dinja kollha. Izda r-Religjonijiet kollha jobdu l-ligi tal-pajjiz. Biex tinbena knisja jew moskeja, jinhtieg permess tal-MEPA

d. borg

May 8th 2009, 14:56

Qed tara kif mis-seba jiehdu l-id? They should go to the Mosque. And they bully us as well.

R. C Conti

May 8th 2009, 14:51

What's wrong with the Mosque in Paola?? Isn't it suitable for them to do their prayers over there??

Joseph Vella

May 8th 2009, 14:50

Malta Tourism Authority should advertise this as a new tourist attraction.

I worked in a muslim country for seven years and I cannot imagine what would have happened to me if I decided to pray as Catholic in the open as they are doing in our country.

Who says that we are racist? Were are the Jesuits that make us Maltese to look like racists in the news?

martin borg

May 8th 2009, 14:42

An intriguing thought entered my head while reading this 'news' item.

What would happen if a group of Catholics had to celebrate mass in downtown Riyadh on a Sunday.?????