Christian Peregin
Muslims gather in prayer along Sliema front
About 50 Muslim men took their prayer rugs to the Sliema front yesterday after the planning authority sealed off their place of worship. The Muslims said the Malta Environment and Planning Authority had locked them out of their flat in Sliema where they used to pray, so they decided to take their cause outside.
"We are not here to protest or threaten violence but to express our fundamental human right to gather in prayer," Bader Zina, one of the leaders, said. According to Mepa, a number of complaints had been received by neighbours and the flat did not have a licence to be used as a place of worship.
The Muslims, many of whom Maltese, were dressed in traditional clothing. They had a permit and police protection and said this might become a regular appointment until their flat was reopened.
This behaviour did not go down well with a group of Maltese onlookers who warned that if this happened again "there will be trouble".
"Malta is a Catholic country. They have no right to come here and pray in front of us. I don't care what they do in the privacy of their own home but not here," one Maltese woman said.
"We've had enough. If you were to do the same in their country they would stone you. I can't understand how they could have been given a permit for this, including police presence and all!" her husband added, visibly disturbed by what he saw.
"They should go to a mosque. That is where they belong. Or in some hole somewhere. But not here where I get my children to eat and have a good time. I would have had no problem if they were Catholics praying... in Malta we are all Catholics so it's not a problem, but not them. Even the tourists were disgusted," he claimed, as his teenage son nodded in agreement.
The owner of a nearby kiosk said she had no problem with them and some were her friends and clients. But she acknowledged that their presence lost her a lot of business yesterday. She said they should be allowed to remain in their flat where they would not be disturbing anyone.
Another man said the praying did not disturb him and it was less noisy than he would have thought. "I don't see what the problem is. These are Maltese people with a different religion. Why shouldn't they be allowed to pray quietly outdoors if we can have noisy feasts and drunken brawls?"
Mr Zina said they did not want to anger anyone: "All we want to do is praise God".
He said that besides the Sliema flat, another in Buġibba had also been locked up by Mepa simply because it was used by Muslims to gather in prayer. The residents of the flats had to seek alternative accommodation.
"Since when do you need a licence to pray? I don't see anyone closing down other prayer groups. And, anyway, I would rather have a group of Catholics singing praise to God next to my house than a bar," Mr Zina said.
He explained that Muslims prayed five times a day and it was preferable to do so in groups. He did not sense a negative reaction from the Maltese in the area, except for one woman who insisted on walking her dog in front of them. When she tried it the second time, she was stopped by the police.
He said it was sad to see some Maltese Catholics who feared or were intolerant towards Muslims and efforts should be made to encourage tolerance and integration.
Although he condemned any type of violence or revenge, he said that if people were discriminated against and hurt, it would become impossible to control a backlash.
438 Comments
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joseph borg
Dec 10th 2009, 22:52
I would like to know why exactly this flat was closed. I never heard that there was a catholic centre for youths that was closed because of prayers. and some of these centres are quite noisy, with youths shouting outside and occasional vandalism. i never read about a petition for closing such a centre because it was a nuisance to the neighbourhood. These are Maltese people with a different religion. i seriously cant understand what exactly maltese have found so offensive in this and why we keep on comparing ourselves to what they do in their country. some of these countries jail people for being raped, do you want our country to adopt such "ways of justice" too? or to chop off your son's hand for stealing something from a stationary? as long as their praying didnt take place very early in morning or very late at night i find no problem. How this disturbs the youth of this nation? i never heard of someone making fuss that violation of traffic laws or stealing electricity is ruining our youths.
Kenneth Duthie
Jun 19th 2009, 10:48
This is why freedom of speech matters: you Muslim fellows spout off all your fabulous claims, practice your political craft throughout the dar al-harb, and expect everyone to kowtow to you rather than hurt your precious feelings.
However, whenever anyone examines your position, it quickly becomes clear that it's about as substantial as a chocolate fireguard.
(Cont ..)
Kenneth Duthie
Jun 19th 2009, 10:48
(Cont..) Yes, the leader of this Muslim band put forward his not-so-veiled threat in the form of a conditional statement. I have already addressed this. Do you read selectively? Once again: Muslims actively practice discrimination every time they gather to pray. Anyone with two X chromosomes is not welcome. (And as we all know, that's just the tip of the iceberg.)
This purely imaginary "discrimination" Muslims like you cry and bleat about is simply a figment of the paranoid Islamic imagination. Yet you feel this is sufficient basis to threaten people. Anything to get your own way. It's pathetic, you're like a bunch of little children who need to be taught how to behave.
Well it just won't wash. I keep asking you about the way Muslims threaten people, and despite your attempts to talk about something else - anything else - I've kept asking you to see how you deal with it. And at the end of the day, you've thrown in the towel.
You don't want to admit that Islam is backward, or that Islam has a strain of misogyny running through it that poisons everything it touches. But the facts speak for themselves.
Kenneth Duthie
Jun 9th 2009, 22:13
Why do you insist on talking about apples whenever you're asked about oranges?
Imagine a white British non-Muslim person, in fact, let's imagine a group of white, British, non-Muslim women went right down to this bunch of male Muslims one sunny afternoon and told them that this discrimination talk had to stop! It's all rubbish, and no one wants to hear it! Imagine that. Would we see an "uncontrollable backlash"?
And please address the distinction I drew between the actual discrimination practiced by this group of Muslims every time they gather, and the purely imaginary discrimination they use as a basis to threaten people.
And try to address my original point, which was that in W. Montgomery Watt's biography of Mohammad, he argues that for a Muslim, prayer is not a solitary religious exercise, it is an active political statement.
A. Muscat
Jun 8th 2009, 18:12
@ Kenneth Duthie Please inform me what’s the EXACT issue or issues in question? Please note that I have a severe incurable intellectual problem, so please an itemized ‘issues’ list would be highly appreciated and simplify the matter for me. Should you be in a position to provide a solution this would be an extra bonus!
Kenneth Duthie
Jun 8th 2009, 02:35
Is that the best you can do? Calm down? Lol ... that's a pretty poor show, Mr. Muscat.
My emotional condition is not only unknown to you, it is irrelevant.
If you want no more talk about discrimination, I suggest you go down to one of these prayer meetings and say so to the leader of those Muslims.
Tell me, what would happen if a white person went down to Sliema and told those Muslims that he'd had enough of their talk about discrimination, and that they should just stop going on about it? What would happen? Would we see an "uncontrollable backlash?"
Maybe you just want non-Muslims to stop talking about how Muslims discriminate against women? At the same time, it's A-okay for Muslims (male Muslims, obviously) to cry and complain about some undefined thing they refer to as "discrimination" which consists of we know not what, which has not even happened, but which might, just possibly, occur at some time in the future, and to threaten people on that basis. I see ... you're revealing quite a lot about the Muslim mindset.
Who wants to see your fellow believers all over the waterfront at Sliema again?
I don't.
A. Muscat
Jun 7th 2009, 19:29
@ Kenneth Duthie
Please calm down and inform me what’s the issue in question and what do you suggest? Somewhere I pointed out that, unless you provide an answer why the RCC never headed by a female or/and why God should have a son not a daughter, any talks about discrimination should be sidelined.
-----------------------------------------
The Papal roots of discrimination.
Specifically, in the fifteenth century, two Papal Bulls set the stage for European domination of the New World and Africa. Romanus Pontifex, issued by Pope Nicholas V to King Alfonso V of Portugal in 1452, declared war against all non-Christians throughout the world, and specifically sanctioned and promoted the conquest, colonization, and exploitation of non-Christian nations and their territories. Inter Caetera, issued by Pope Alexander VI in 1493 to the King and Queen of Spain following the voyage of Christopher Columbus to the island he called Hispaniola, officially established Christian dominion over the New World. It called for the subjugation of the native inhabitants and their territories, and divided all newly discovered or yet-to-be discovered lands into two - giving Spain rights of conquest and dominion over one side of the globe and Portugal over the other.
Kenneth Duthie
Jun 7th 2009, 03:04
It's interesting to see a practitioner of the Islamic faith try to argue his case. The way his fellow believers intimidate, threaten, and in some cases actually attack people for speaking about Islam is not seen as problematic. Riots, threats and physical violence apparently don't qualify, in the Islamic worldview, as "creating unnecessary tension."
Mr. Muscat is doing what we've seen many of his fellow religionists do in recent years. He thinks that anyone pointing to actual events that have occurred is "creating unnecessary tension." Not the events themselves. They give Mr. Muscat no trouble at all. Westerners are simply expected to deny them.
The Islamic narrative which non-Muslims are supposed to accept is based on a denial of reality. This is demanded of us!
I'm afraid not, Mr. Muscat. The leader of your little group cries about discrimination, while he and his friends themselves discriminate against half the human race. He makes veiled threats in order to get what he wants, showing how he thinks adults should act within a democratic society. No. It's about time people like him, and you, realised that irrational, childish, threatening behaviour carried out in the name of Islam just doesn't work.
A. Muscat
Jun 6th 2009, 20:22
Mr. Kenneth Duthie
What is actually the problem? Is it about what Mr. Badr said or it is about what he did? If it’s the former, I would like to ask, should it be by default being a Muslim, or called Badr to be discriminated and hurt? Shall we get back ward to inquisition ear? Should we exclude others with different beliefs? Should we call for a crusader?.
Mr. Badr said: ‘… if people were discriminated against and hurt, it would become impossible to control a backlash.” Please take note of the word (IF).
If you or others see what’s being done by Mr. Badr is a great disgust and a threat to Catholic religion, tourism, culture or whatever you come up with, please be informed that Mr. Badr and all this group were just praying exactly the same way Jesus did. Was Jesus a threat? If Christians don’t pray the way Jesus did, here one should ask, are Christians more correct than Jesus?
Google per se is not the issue. It’s the brain behind what’s being published in internet. If the latter express ideas that powerful organizations want express here lays the danger.
Kenneth Duthie
Jun 6th 2009, 06:12
I find it highly amusing to see that you have something against the use of search engines. Perhaps you could explain clearly what you find so objectionable about Google.
There is of course nothing of that nature to be said.
Anyone can use a search engine to find out what has happened to Kurt Westergaard and Robert Redeker. This assertion is obviously true. The question is: so what? From that assertion, one can draw no conclusions, one way or the other, about my knowledge of the Islamic faith.
Your comment is a very poor and obvious attempt to disguise your own inability to acknowledge the threatening language used by the leader of this group of Muslims in Sliema - and of the actual threats made against many other Europeans in recent years.
Kenneth Duthie
Jun 6th 2009, 06:03
You didn't receive an answer because the questions are irrelevant. Your "google and search" comment was too childish for words: an obvious attempt at avoiding what the leader of this merry band of Muslims had said would happen if his all-male, inherently discriminatory band were ever "discriminated" against; this comment being made in the context of the many European citizens who have been threatened, persecuted, and even murdered for committing the same type of "offence."
Let's see: people rioting over a page of cartoons published in Denmark; riots, legal threats and outright murder - now veiled threats made by this fellow in Sliema - any sane and rational person can see perfectly well where any "unnecessary tension" comes from.
And just so you know; I deliberately used your own type of logic in my concluding remark, so that you could have the opportunity to argue against it. Given that you have used this line of "reasoning" so often in the comments in this newspaper, it's about time you wised up a little, and quit doing so.
A. Muscat
Jun 4th 2009, 23:51
Mr. Kenneth Duthie
Dear sir,
You are a repeat and so do I.
Why do you deliberately answer cheese while you are specifically asked about vegetables?
I remember asking you somewhere the following two questions:
As yet I haven’t received an answer.
What the Bible says on how women should pray?
Why we never had a female to head the RCC?
I tell you mate; the whole issue is very simple. One must first ask: Do I need a religion? Do I need a salvation or guidance in my life? Is the Quran divine? If the answer is yes, I just ask the peoples of knowledge about this religion (for example, the Imam in the Mosque). If I am not interested, I could Google and denigrate the religion or its followers as mush as I can. However this doesn’t not harm the religion per se but creates un-necessary tension.
‘Failure to answer this question will render all your comments on this matter null and void, I'm afraid.” By the way this were my words for your Google and search comments.
Kenneth Duthie
Jun 4th 2009, 01:15
Here again Mr. Muscat tries to avoid the issue: In light of what has happened to Kurt Westergaard, Robert Redeker, Oriana Fallaci, Michel Houellebecq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Geert Wilders, Theo van Gogh et al, and one sees exactly where any "unncessary tension" comes from there) - what does Mr. Muscat think about the not-so-veiled threat made by the leader of this happy band of Muslims?
While discriminating against half the human race with every all-male prayer meeting he holds, this fine fellow warns all us benighted unbelievers that if he or his fellow (male) Muslims are ever discriminated against, there will be an uncontrollable backlash.
Once again Mr. Muscat - what do you make of this fellow's comment?
Failure to answer this question will render all your comments on this matter null and void, I'm afraid.
A. Muscat
May 22nd 2009, 16:19
Kenneth Duthie
Here again Mr. Kenneth Duthie googles and comment!
‘We all remember the Danish cartoons, we can all use Google and see what has happened to Kurt Westergaard, to the philosophy lecturer Robert Redeker, …..t?’
We must first distinguish between USA-IRAN political relation, Osama Ben Laden and what the Quran says.
No-single verse in Quran says any innocent person should be killed. We always have to differentiate between the faith and the followers of the faith do, and this in my opinion should apply on all faiths. If someone in Iran issues FATWA to kill X in USA-here we should not blame the law but the culprit.
I tell you; the whole issue is very simple. One must first ask: Do I need a religion? Do I need a salvation or guidance in my life? Is the Quran divine? If the answer is yes, I just ask the peoples of knowledge about this religion (the Imam in the Mosque). If I am not interested, I could Google and denigration the religion or its followers as mush as I can. However this doesn’t not harm the religion per se but creates un-necessary tension.
Stephen Farrugia
May 22nd 2009, 03:10
Ateist dejjem ha jkollu ragun fuq kull argument dwar Alla... ghax dak li tamilna Nsara/musulmani/etc...etc...etc... Hi l FIDI ghamja(dik li l atei m ghandomx)
Marlene Vella
May 21st 2009, 20:59
@Daniel Bonnici. You might not be into Turkish kebabs but I wonder if you would take the same stand on the investors involved in the Smart City project... oh right, money has neither a smell, a colour, let alone religion!!!
@Alexander Azzopardi - tell that to all the African Muslims from the French ex-colonies who were dragged to France to rebuild it after both world wars, to fight as child soldiers in their wars, creating apartheid and depleting their human and natural resources in their home country etc. etc. Their descendants are more French than SarkoZy will ever be in a 100 lives.
Kenneth Duthie
May 21st 2009, 17:39
It was the spokesman (not spokesperson) of this little band of Muslims who claimed that, although he discriminates against other people himself as part of this very exercise, that if they were disciminated against, there would be an uncontrollable backlash.
We all remember the Danish cartoons, we can all use Google and see what has happened to Kurt Westergaard, to the philosophy lecturer Robert Redeker, to Michel Houellebecq, to Oriana Fallaci, to Salman Rushdie, to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, to Ilan Halimi, and Theo van Gogh. So here's an unanswered question to you: What do you make of Mr. Zina's comment?
And again: if you have something to say about Islamic prayer then go ahead and say it. I'll read your post. But it's not my job to write it for you.
Marlene Vella
May 21st 2009, 00:45
Jista' xi ħadd jispjegali kif il-Knisja taż-Żebbiegħ (Mġarr, Malta) lanqas applikazzjoni għal permess ta' żvilupp m'għandha skond il-Mapserver tal-MEPA? Diz-zona hija waħda ta' importanza arkeoloġika - dejjem skond l-istess il-MEPA.
Kenneth Duthie
May 20th 2009, 22:46
A. Muscat - "... could you at least prove (By quoting Biblical texts) that Jesus in the ONLY begotten son of god? Thank you"
Joe Xuereb (to A. Muscat) - "No red herrings please!"
A. Muscat
May 20th 2009, 21:01
@ Kenneth Duthie
‘It is also inherently discriminatory: just look at that picture. Do you see any women there?
I guess, until one fine day the RCC is headed by a female or a black Pope we should side line any debate about discrimination.
den delceppo
Sep 29th 2010, 11:25
Just as in the roman chatolic church, women are not allowed to be priests, Islam has its own way of praying.