Motorists being fined for parking lawfully

Oscar Cassar

Mar 10th 2009, 15:14

If the wardens are not able to detect a legal or an illegal sign in the roads, the company must simply be replaced with a Gov entity of local wardens.

Oscar Cassar

Mar 10th 2009, 15:04

The ADT is aware that the signs are illegal, but according to sources, it does not have enough personnel to check all the signs that have been put up by councils…. a simple answer for a simple question… the ADT must charge the Local Councils to pay the overtime performed by ADT officials to correct their illegal actions from which they (the Local Councils) are getting another form on income.

Oscar Cassar

Mar 10th 2009, 14:57

Mr. Cohen president of the Local Councils' Association says that we should not make an issue about such a illegal sign that according to him have a good intentions… but if we (the drivers) have a good intentions of driving between 60 to 80 mph in an empty road at a village outskirts, although legal according to the Motor Vehicle Regulations and approved by our democratically elected Parliament, we get fined just the same... Is this fair Mr Cohen?

TRW O'Neill

Mar 10th 2009, 14:55

I agree that Councillors who permit illegal signs to be erected, should be fined, Double what they have mis -earned, but also all Councillors actually in offiice who do not complain to WSC about all the Potholes & sunken trenches caused by WSC workstaff,should be voted out of office , at the next elections, WSC would have to pay to put right what their staff have done wrong. Mayors & Councillors are not doing what they are paid to do. i.e. looking after their Townspeople. WSC will then get the message & force their staff to do proper repairs, after opening up roads. Ther will then be many less potholes to avoid. QED

J.Spiteri

Mar 9th 2009, 20:32

Why not fine local councils for erecting traffic signs without the necessary approval of ADT? They are breaking the law, aren't they? Or are THEY above the law?

R. Vella Bamber

Mar 9th 2009, 19:10

quote Mr Cohen: "We should not make an issue about such a sign that had good intentions. The only thing we can do about this specific sign is bring it in order" It seems they are not collecting enough money and so try anything which gives revenue. So what next? maybe drop the speed cameras limit to 30km/h since motorists are now keeping their eyes open!!

GiovDeMartino

Mar 9th 2009, 18:24

Haga wahda hi zgura. Ma tarax tabella wahda li hi wahda li ma jkunx fiha partita zbalji ta' l-ortografija meta tkun miktuba bil-Malti. Din wahda minnhom.

Joe Cilia

Mar 9th 2009, 17:59

The media should name 'spokesman' and 'experts' on subjects that are public. For instance, who is this wise guy at ADT that came out with a flimsy answer the newspaper's questions? Is he/she scared to have his/her name known? These people are paid by public entities and should have the decency to show their face when replying rather than hide behind 'spokesman' etc. After all, ADT hardly ever replies to the public's letters published and now it is obvious that even when cornered and have to come up with a reply they not only come with lame excuses but also hide behind 'spokesman' and 'experts'.

nevil debattista

Mar 9th 2009, 15:16

Dear Mr.Cohen only last Monday I paid a fine for having parked my car with its back facing the facade of Pjazza Lunzjata Sliema. Now I got to know that the local council had no legal right to erect these signs. The warden who gave me the ticket was ignorant enough as not to be able to translate the real meaning of the word ' MITLUBA ' which means REQUESTED AND NOT FORBIDDEN. How about giving me the money back from your own pockets Sir because after all I beleive you are the one to blame for all this mess.

Manuel Zammit

Mar 9th 2009, 14:34

People are advocating fining the Local Councils who abuse their power. If this is to be the case who is going to eventually foot the bill? Yes - the innocent and often abused citizen. If anything, offending Councillors should be held PERSONNALY liable and made to foot the bill themselves. We have had enough of people preaching "accountability" and never being accountable to anyone.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 9th 2009, 11:57

"The ADT spokesman said the authority was continuously investigating reports about illegal signs and ensured they were removed once a case had been established".

Not enough. The persons putting illegal signs should themselves be fined. Otherwise, I might as well put a reserved parking sign in front of my home.

Jonathan Sammut

Mar 9th 2009, 07:03

I think that in order to control local councils from acting illegaly there should be some form of deterrent. Any local council which is found guilty of putting up such an illegal sign should be given a hefty fine. Moreover, should a motorist be issued with an illegal fine, the outcome after going to court should not only be that the fine is not paid, but the motorist should be compensated, twice the value of the fine issued, by the local council to make up for the inconvenience. Moreover, the local council should be held fully accountable, and asked to fork out all the legal expenses incurred by the motorist as well as the law courts. The taxes forked out be Joe Public should not be wasted on sorting out the mess left by a cowboy council!

S Muscat

Mar 8th 2009, 22:42

We can make our voices heard but the worst thing is that it will do no effect. we can write write make the news of this abuse but if something is done by the normal person he is judged by the authority, but if the authority does something the authority will judge itself, and you know it will be always right..... silly

Antoine Zammit

Mar 8th 2009, 21:30

Mr. Bezzina.

I cannot agree more than i do with you

E. Azzopardi

Mar 8th 2009, 20:57

Will someone please instill some discipline in this country?????????? It is non existent.

Albert Bezzina

Mar 8th 2009, 19:46

One of the basic rights in the European Union is the right for everyone to enjoy their property and possessions. Legally obtained cash is a possession. Usurping one's cash under pretext of an inexistent legal provision is tyrany. Fines imposed on the pretext of an infringement of an inexistent law, is abuse of power and the abuse of the average Joe's ignorance of his/her rights. This therefore means that any fine imposed under these conditions must be returned to the owner. The self proclaimed safety net that protects the authorities (local councils) from paying back any illegally obtained funds is a breach of basic European Citizen's rights. If Government and local councils are cash strapped they should hold back on exuberant projects until they settle what they owe.
"A legal expert said that according to law, local councils and tribunals could not reimburse motorists once a fine had been paid. Motorists could only receive a refund if they took the council to court". What kind of law is this? If it goes against basic rights, as that law has been made, it can be repealed and replaced with one which gives the right to individuals to claim their money back.

Christopher Grainger

Mar 8th 2009, 19:10

No surprises here.

My personal experience was having a ticket placed on my car while it was legally parked with the land owners permission within a chain perimeter marking out private property.

Letters never received a reply, it was nobody's problem apparently.

Publio Ellul

Mar 8th 2009, 19:06

I sugest that if the counsel brakw tha law he would be fined like we bo wj\hen we do not obey the law.

Peter Abela

Mar 8th 2009, 17:57

It may be convinient for the ADT to pass the Buck on to the council. In my 12 years of council expirience I can assure them that such shortcomings are coming from both ends.

So lets stop the winging and sort it out once and for all. Lets start by checking all the Handicapped, reserved and unloading not to mention the many signs and Motorcylcle parking bays.

Lets all own up and start the exercise to rectify any irregularities. Lets all stop playing the PURE ALMIGHTIES, and get things sorted

mario sciberras

Mar 8th 2009, 17:57

LOL ! this reminds me when i got fined for a sign which the warden did not know its meaninig. it was a turn left ahead and not a turn left sign.To put salt to injury, the sign was pointing to a wrong way carraige which if followed you would end up against the flow of traffic.I contested the fine and won it ,but im sorry for the others who did not have the means to confront it.Funnily enough the sign was taken off by the time i got home.what a way to put up signs

J.F. Vassallo Ebejer

Mar 8th 2009, 17:56

Joe Grima has put his finger on the problem – once Government is giving everyone the impression that whoever is string can do anything, and get away with it, it is easy for cowboy councils to do the same.

When we have a Government that breaches commercial contract conditions (ask the suppliers of medicines to the Health Dept), collective agreements (ask UHM), attacks private individuals in Parliament, and then hide behind Parliamentary Privilege, it is no wonder that the country is going to the dogs……….

john falzon

Mar 8th 2009, 16:36

I also had a similar problem with a sign. This was an official sign however, and was one of those signs where you have a no parking with a double headed arrow beneath it to indicate the stretch. As it happens one of the arrows was broken off, which led me to believe I was ok to park where I did. LUCKILY, I always carry a camera inthe car, so I took a number of photos and sent an appeal to the petitions board. They wrote back saying to ignore any claims to pay until they decide on the case. Finally after around 6-9 months (I forget exactly) I got back a reply saying that it was ok and I was off the hook. So the moral of the story is ALWAYS CARRY A CAMERA with you (and make sure it is charged). It may save you far more money than you spend on it.

R Pace Bonello

Mar 8th 2009, 15:48

Fail to understand how we succeed in making a big issue out of nothing. What could be simpler than having all signs officially stamped by the ADT and carrying out a publicity campaign to inform the public? Signs without ADT stamp are to be ignored.

However are the wardens not aware of the illegality of the signs in question?

L..Galea

Mar 8th 2009, 15:24

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson

lgalea

Mar 8th 2009, 15:22

J Farrugia
You cannot fine people if there is no law prohibiting the act.

Everyone should refrain from paying any fines and send a petition to the petitions board. Even if the petitions board does not accept your petition and you have to appear before the local tribunal, you may still appeal. Go through all stages and deny the local councils and the wardens companies the money that they steal from you. They are giving you hell. Give them back hell to get your money and try your utmost for them not to get it.

Joseph Grech

Mar 8th 2009, 14:55

"The ADT is aware that the signs are illegal..." Well, the Petitions Board is NOT aware! It was to that Board that I was directed to formally contest a fine resulting from the same sign carried in the photograph of the article in the Times (Annunciation Square, Sliema). In December 2008 they replied to my complaint - in which I had claimed that the particular sign and contravention were probably illegitimate - stating that they had not accepted my petition. Surely there must be some form of legal redress for all of us who are being messed about by such incompetence!

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Mar 8th 2009, 14:45

This is daylight robbery! Those who pay fines which are in fact not due should surely be refunded. Furthermore, I strongly believe that wardens should be held accountable for unlawful fines. This does not apply solely with regard to these unlawful signs.

Almost a year ago, I parked my car below a traffic sign which stated that no parking is allowed between 12.30 and 1.30. This was in the morning and I knew that I would be back before 12.30. On my return, I found a fine attached to my windscreen stating that at 12.07 I was parked illegally! Other cars also had such fines attached (hope they did not readily pay it! ) I took up the matter with the Wardens Co. only to be informed that they could do nothing about it! I took a photo of the Sign and I presented my case to the Petitions Board and only this week was informed that the fine was not due.

I STRONGLY FEEL THAT THE CITIZEN SHOULD NOT BE PLACED IN A POSITION WHERE HE/SHE HAS TO WASTE PRECIOUS TIME TO PROVE ITS INNOCENCE. ADT should ensure that action be taken against the warden concerned/the company.

Alexander Laurence

Mar 8th 2009, 14:21

Another case of 'min ihawwad l-aktar'. There has to be a strong vote around malta to remove these silly signs. It is a case of a clear refund...as to why I why I would have to take these jokers to court, the government should intercede. Another funny GonziPN thingie!

As for the demi-gods of the local council...I agree...

Deo Catania

Mar 8th 2009, 14:03

It's not even written correctly, it should be PIPE 'IL BARRA not PIPE IL-BARRA.

colin wilcox

Mar 8th 2009, 13:36

It would seem that in malta you dont know how to get your money back in a court
case you claime the fine you have received plus out of pocket expenses ie days pay
travel and court costs

J Farrugia

Mar 8th 2009, 13:35

Whiel I condemn the local councils for putting up illegal signage to disrput the drivers, but at the same time I cannot help admitting that those drivers who were found parked with their silencers to other people's walls, yes, they should be punished. It's only logical and there is no need for signage to tell you that one must not dirty other people's property just for the extravaganza of parking in ffront of my house. Common sense tells you to park front of vehicles near other people's walls. not vice versa. So let them have it for their ignorance of common sense.

Daniel Delia

Mar 8th 2009, 13:29

Mr. Cohen has some cheek to make such a statement. He has become a bad wolf, hungry for money. I watched his recent interview on TVM's Reporter. His only main concern was the funding of the local councils. It came quite clear to me that if no adequate funding is forthcoming from the central government than the Wardens are the means to provide the shortfall.

The likes of Mr Cohen and others Councilors have become local Dons on a perpetual lease where they have made their locality a possession of their own. They sit in lavish offices (when they could make use of humbler premises) acquired through heavy lending and driving the councils in big accounting deficits.

The Local Councils have become a rotten business where the central government has lost control to the detriment of the citizens they represent.

J. Cilia Vincenti

Mar 8th 2009, 13:27

"Signs approved by the ADT are listed in the Signage and Carriageway Markings Section of the Motor Vehicle Regulations."

Do I take it that Police and Traffic Wardens giving out tickets are either ignorant of the Motor Vehicle Regulations or else acting illegally? In both cases this is a criminal offence as ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Nicholas Coppini

Mar 8th 2009, 13:26

It's the Mickey Mouse Club House lalala la la la la

charmaine mangion

Mar 8th 2009, 12:34

how we will know if the signs are legally or not???

Denis Bartolo

Mar 8th 2009, 12:29

Dear Mr.Cohen,
There is a simple process to find out if a REQUESTED sign is legal or not, you simple have to apply to the competent autorithies before installing it.

Such questions from a person in your position shows how much you should not be there.

"We should not make an issue about such a sign that had good intentions" the issue is Mr.Cohen that you have illegally fined persons within the law.
Should you not have asked an urgent meeting with the ADT before making such signs.

I have in my possesion documentation showing a local council approving reserved parking spaces for local notaries, lawyers , parish priest , local dentist and doctor, architects ets. Simply because one of the local councilors had a son being a notary.
This is local politicians see way beyond their noses and their ego.

Lets see you refund all these illegal fines Mr.Cohen.

As to who I am, a driver summoned on the pretext of an illegal sign , attended local tribunal with non approval of such sign from ADT and still the council prosecutor insisted I should pay the fine.
I did not , however this was 2 years ago!!

Emmanuel Marmara'

Mar 8th 2009, 12:06

YES, WHY ARE THE COUNCILS' REPRESENTATIVES WHO ARE PUTTING UP THESE ILLEGAL SIGNS WHERE AND WHEN THEY LIKE ARE NOT BEING TAKEN TO COURT ???IF THIS IS NOT DONE THE COUNSILS ARE GOING TO KEEP AT IT AND KEEP IGNORING HIGHER AUTHORITHY. I KNOW THAT MANY A TIMES THEIR ATTENTION HAVE BEEN DRAWN REGARDING IRREGULARITIES..OR IS IT THE CASE THAT...' CHE COMMANDA FARE L LEGGE ' SOME OF THESE COUNCILS' PEOPLE ARE WASTING A LOT OF PRECIOUS TIME AND MONEY OF THE CITIZENS AND OF COURSE OF THE TRIBUNALS ETC..SOMETIMES WE WONDER ABOUT SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE SO PRETENTIOUS.

Joe Grima

Mar 8th 2009, 11:59

From a rogue state in which the government itself robs its own citizens in broad daylight (the tax on new vehicles as one example) what does one expect.? Local councils will also behave as if the citizen is there to be fleeced and will do it with impunity. Il piu contiene il meno

Darby Allen

Mar 8th 2009, 11:58

"Decisions of the courts are the correct source of interpretation of what the law says."
If law has to be interpreted it is clearly bad law!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but documents (which I take to include signs) are legally enforceable in Malta only if they are written in Maltese AND English; if so, most signs (including those on garage doors) have no standing in Maltese law.

R. Schembri

Mar 8th 2009, 11:36

Local Councils should be held liable in a serious way. We have too many local politicians with their cowboy mentality and God almighty attitude.

Charles Micallef

Mar 8th 2009, 11:30

The whole thing has become one big joke.......................

Joseph Micallef

Mar 8th 2009, 11:30

Motorists that park illegally are fined then why aren't councils that erect illegal signs taken to court ? There is something wrong with the system.

Ramon Casha

Mar 8th 2009, 11:27

If these signs are illegal and the councils are taking in money which they do not then refund, doesn't this constitute a case of fraud?

G . Mangion

Mar 8th 2009, 10:50

@ Floriana Local council,

IT'S ABOUT TIME TO REGULATE YOURSELF, TO SEE THAT ALL THE STREET'S OF FLORIANA, BE RESCANNED FOR MANY UNLAW FULL SIGNS ESPECIALLY THE SIGNS
IN FRONT OF , SUPPOSED GARAGE'S ( WICH IN FACT ARE NOT !!! ) AND THE KEEP CLEAR SIGNS ,IN FRONT OF FLAT'S, HOUSE'S FOR HEALTH REASONS, THAT NOW THERE IS NO NEED FOR THEM ANYMORE ! THIS HAD BEEN HAPPENING FOR YEARS NOW, ....... I forgot and the Hadid on the pavement ? are thy Legal ? they are Nonesence to the Pedistrain & the cars too, ecc, ecc . Reorganize or Resign.

Paul Caruana

Mar 8th 2009, 10:47

Why is it that in Malta we persist in doing things in this ameteurish manner? If anything, local councils should be setting good examples, and go about their business using the proper procedures, rather than doing things "a la Maltija", i.e. I do what I like and everyone else can go to hell!

I Abela

Mar 8th 2009, 10:42

"We should not make an issue about such a sign that had good intentions" - The only intention about this sign is that vehicle exhaust pipes do not face buildings. As far as I know our vehicles are VRT tested for emissions and if there is excessive exhaust, a vehicle will fail the test. Therefore I can't understand what is all this fuss about parking front bumper to pavement. One should also look at the health and safety of the motorists too. An example, you park front bumper to pavement next to a panel van. When you are leaving, you have to reverse until your car is entirely in the middle of the road, before you can actually see if other vehicles are coming your way. Also interesting to note is another case of only in Malta where the Local Councils cannot issue a refund if a motorist pays an ILLEGAL contravention. Not only should the motorists be refunded, but the Local Council should be fined instead.

Peter Aquilina

Mar 8th 2009, 10:35

Another "institutionalised" type of robbery by the "smart guys" tyrants .
This issue was brought up a few years ago .........and soon HUSHED DOWN.
It seems that some local councils' subjects don't even want to share their booty with their "cousins" !!
ORGANIIZED ROBBERY INDEED !!!!

K Manche

Mar 8th 2009, 10:30

Simply put Wardens don't know what is legal and what is illegal , one would expect Wardens to have been briefed what the difference is between the two! Now on an Island where it seems we have more traffic signs than trees maybe we should put signs which state which signs are ADT approved and which are not. This shows a lack of seriousness of the Warden company and one should contest and not pay blindly. One should consider if a Warden makes an error of judgment and puts a citizen in the uncomfortable position of contesting a fine (lost time, discomfort, looking for parking on contestation day, having to wear cloths which could kill you on a hot summer's day) the reverse cost should be withdrawn from the Warden. Everybody knows Wardens are out to collect their pay but it would get them to think twice and act practically.

Antonia Pace

Mar 8th 2009, 10:29

'The only thing we can do about this specific sign is bring it in order' .... perhaps you ought to start by bringing your spelling of the Maltese language to order. We write " 'il barra" not "il-barra" . What a shame!!!! We can't even spell our own language properly and on "public" traffic signs to boot.

H. Mifsud

Mar 8th 2009, 10:21

I bet that the Local Councils and the ADT will solve this problem amicably in no time whatsoever...obviously to their mutual benefit :)

J.Farrugia

Mar 8th 2009, 10:08

Since local councils have turned in money making cowboys, breaking the law themselves (and not being fined for it!!!!????!!!), it is high time, that ADT makes it law that all signs should have a special mark (by ADT) indicating that the sign is ADT approved, a little bit like a the watermark on currency).
Any signs not having this mark would be illegal and automatically fine the irrisponsible council a very hefty fine, one that make the cowboy counciller and members think twice before erecting illegal signs. All motorists should further be compensated by the council for the fines they would have paid because of these illegal signs.

lgalea

Mar 8th 2009, 09:46

The arrogance of local councils and their demi-gods councilors and mayors is beyond belief.
It is about time that the citizens consider whether local councils should be done away with seeing all the trouble that they have been causing to all the citizens and the corruption in many local councils which beyond the slightest shadow of doubt is costing the taxpayers millions of euros yearly.
Lets start sending our message against the local councils on our ballot paper to get the message across