Bishops mum on carnival arrests

Joe Bonnetti

Mar 18th 2009, 15:51

@Michael Spiteri: Regarding what you stated on "the excommunication of Maltese Catholics" and what the late Archbishop Michael Gonzi done in the 60's if he was right or wrong, the fact remains that later the former Archbishop Mercieca had asked for public forgiveness - a brave thing to do. Just as Pope John Paul II had done this too.

This being a very delicate matter, many of us did not agree with or maybe did, but being the best solution that one could have tought of in those days (I don't agree!!), again I do not agree, but yet it happened and is part of history now.

Just as the shooting of people taking part in a rally at Tal-barrani l/o Zejtun or the killing of an innocent person at Gudia, the framing-up of persons; the torture of persons which occured in catholic malta, and all these reported in the press, but again we do not support such incidents, don't we All Love Thy Neighbours?

J Farrugia

Mar 9th 2009, 08:04

@ Franco Farrugia
- your morals are crash down. you speak for yourself I speak for several morally convinced catholics and for several normal families.

Joe Fenech

Mar 9th 2009, 01:34

All you who ended up with a criminal record: get on to a lawyer and take this case to the European Court of Human Rights.

Bad taste and satire is not a crime!!!!!!!!!!!!

c micallef

Mar 8th 2009, 21:43

I think that it is more important to look at the criticism and where it's stemming from than to censor the criticism and punish it. Satire is a form of criticism - and people need the space to be able to criticise, it is only a few days a year and is an event which is built on satire and criticism of current affairs; their costumes therefore are not out of context but are at the right time and the right place.
The church, i think would gain a lot by looking at the criticism they get and trying to understand where it's coming from and use it to improve themselves and perhaps attract more followers rather than calling for harsh action...something which appears defensive rather than reflective.

Michael Spiteri

Mar 8th 2009, 21:08

@John Meli
I don't know how old you are but I hope you didn't support your bishops when they excommunicated Maltese Catholics for wanting to be equal to the British colonists. I am talking of the mill stone around the Church of Malta's neck that was noosed by Bishop Michael Gonzi in the 60's.

John Lauri

Mar 8th 2009, 20:52

@ John Meli.

I certainly do NOT support the bishops ! Consider them your bishops, for they are certainly NOT mine ! And when you do speak, please do it for yourself, for I do not wish for you to be my spokesperson and speak on my behalf.... certainly not with your views expressed. Thank you !

Franco Farrugia

Mar 8th 2009, 20:27

@ John Meli - 'We all support our Bishops ...' Excuse me. I will thank you to speak for yourself and not on my behalf.

J.Hersme

Mar 8th 2009, 19:53

We have religion, we also got the rightful way of teaching religion without forceing the teachings down people's throats and brain wash the innocent, but we unfortunitly got fanatics who run about preaching on the same scale as dictators and the latter is the most dangerous because instead of going by the books there is a tendency of going the opposite direction, BUT- having said this surely there are other personalities people can dress up as, i mean come on the picture about is just either an advert for Cisk beer or simply intimidating the local clergy, and yes i think it should not be allowed, Why not dress up as Micky Mouse or even Britanny Spears or even Elvis or whatever turns them on why pick on nuns,or christ its simply stupid and in a bad taste. Its just my opinion., and how stupid for some people to dress up in a close nit catholic country such as the tiny island of Gozo,they are obviously asking for it. Agree??

John Meli

Mar 8th 2009, 19:25

@J.Farrugia & F. Farrugia: We all agree that those who had acted or done any indecent acts should be procecuted and sentenced.As catholics we can forgive, even the Bishops can do this, but the authorities cannot have this facility, because if one had broke the law, they must face criminal justice.

The main point will always remain that according to official Police Reports and those of the Ministry of Justice & Home Affairs stated that photographs published in media (internet) and supplied to the authorities do demonstrated that their bad behaviour was "not simply a case of people dressing up as Christ or that of saints" but much more, so it's a matter of "a question of public indecency and offending religious sentiment, some by showing or exhibition of Jesus Phallus (penis)" - Do you approve such a things, making fun of Jesus?

We all support our Bishops, because we believe and respect God, who is in Heaven who one-day will come to Judge those who do disrespectful acts (unless repent) including myself, if I would have done such things !! In my opinion, have fun, but not with anyone connected to other religions.

D.Galea

Mar 8th 2009, 18:41

This whole incident reminded me of another "religion" with their throw the stone and hide your hand techniques ... Scientology.

Marvic Aguis

Mar 8th 2009, 18:16

The freedom of expression paradox.

When it comes to Muslim or Islam, we have freedom of speech to tarnish their image. But when something, which is slightly against Christianity or Jews it's horrible, terrific and unpardonable. Is it a matter of double standard?.
Moreover, would the Church consider critical views against Christianity denigrating? If it does, then it holds the position that any critical view against any religion is construed as denigration; if not, then it holds the position that it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the tenets and practice of one religion but not another, invariably, so it appears, Islam.
We need a future where people just get along... religions exist side-by-side without problems. People of all shapes, sizes, colors - just coexist for the betterment of mankind. All the Gods for all the religions have been introduced and have teamed up to set their people straight. So if the followers don't follow, their own Gods can provide whatever wrath they choose.
End of rant.
Any body interested to read about the divine message of Islam, please read Quran and modern science-compatible or incompatible? By Dr. Zakir Naik
http://www.ahmed-deedat.net/modules.php?name=myBooks2&op=listt&cat=7

May God bless you all

Michael Spiteri

Mar 8th 2009, 17:32

@PM Camilleri
You chose to mention the Pauline year. Did you know that St. Paul in his time was a criminal of the worst kind? He was a serial killer, his victims being mostly Christians. Yet we chose to forgive him for his atrocious crimes towards the early Christians. That is what Christianity is all about - being able to forgive those who hurt us the most.

M Pace

Mar 8th 2009, 16:43

The irony of all of this is that Jesus was also prosecuted and convicted of a crime . He was found guilty of blasphemy and of having offended religious beliefs. His agenda may have been very different from that of this young man, who now has a criminal record, but I still cannot but help see a certain similarity between the bishops and the Sanhedrin.

Franco Farrugia

Mar 8th 2009, 16:28

@ J Farrugia - 'Yes I want them condemned like the other minorities want our years long traditions abolished. Yes they have to pay the price for making me cry.'

Int tghid li titkellem f'isem ir-religjon li tghid li thaddan? Int m'ghandek xejn x'taqsam mar-religjon kattolika!
Int m'ghandek l-ebda dritt titkellem f'isem hadd, f'isem l-ebda religjon u f'isem xejn!

Julian Attard Bezzina

Mar 8th 2009, 16:22

Being a catholic myself I strongly don't agree with people making fun of any religion especially in a carnival event. However I also don't agree with Archbishop Paul Cremona who made it a point that these youngsters wearing religious vestments should be charged in court and treated like criminals. Archbishop Paul Cremona should try to understand why so many youngsters are losing faith and respect in their own religion. It is high time the church updates its self and wakes up to the new realities that the younger generation is facing in this changing world. The Archbishop should try harder to look for the lost sheep and help society understand why religion is important and essential in a youngsters life.

Julian Attard Bezzina

J Galea

Mar 8th 2009, 16:04

Where is the freedom of expression if there are limitations????

L..Galea

Mar 8th 2009, 15:13

I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.
Thomas Jefferson

carmen caruana

Mar 8th 2009, 14:53

Listen anyone of you watch COLORADO CAFE'????? it's every sunday at 21.30 on Italia1 and there's a man who dresses up as a nun and makes fun of everything. He's still on tv and no one says anything.....
so if someone dresses up as a footballer, s/he's going to jail because s/he offended all those footballers and football fans???

j.spiteri

Mar 8th 2009, 14:15

I have a suggestion. Next carnival we will refrain from going anywhere near Nadur, or Gozo for that matter, and donate the hundreds of euros each of us spend there to charity in Malta. Lets see what the Bishops have to say to that.

Michael Spiteri

Mar 8th 2009, 14:10

I bet the Monsignors will sleep better now that one from their flock got a suspended sentence.

James A. Tyrrell

Mar 8th 2009, 14:01

I think it says a lot about the strength of your religion when it can be so easily offended. Why is it such a sin against the church for a young man to don fancy dress at a carnival but it is perfectly acceptable for that same church to ruin the livelihoods of its own parishioners by building a graveyard? Dressing up as a nun is a sin but rendering local farmers land unusable in order to profit from the sale of graves is perfectly acceptable!

john fenech

Mar 8th 2009, 14:00

If those who wore the costumes did so as to ridicule the Catholic faith, or any other faith, then they are immature adults. They are not only offending the religion but also the followers of that religion. One have every right to express an opinion or follow his inclination but have no right to make mockery of one believes or his feelings!

This has nothing to do with religion per se but it is about the ethic of reciprocity ’Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself.’ or ‘Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself’

J Farrugia

Mar 8th 2009, 13:53

Mr Editor if these 2 'nuns' make you laugh so much why are you blurring their faces? I wish to know who they are so that I can acquire their services to make me laugh. Sister Act makes me laugh. These two don't.

J Farrugia

Mar 8th 2009, 13:51

Dear Franco farrugia, when the bishops do not speak up, well they are high and mighty, when they speak we ask why are they interfering, why are they meddling in our choices? No wonder they crucified Jesus Christ. He could not be with God and with the Devil at the same time. So He chose God His Father. And was crucified. The bishops have a duty to speak out against all the obscenities that took place at Nadur with people barring their all in front of children and families. Is that sound for you mr Farrugia? Does that make you laugh? It saddens me seeing these obscenities and more so when I see people defending them instead of condemning them. Yes I want them condemned like the other minorities want our years long traditions abolished. Yes they have to pay the price for making me cry.

Victor Sammut

Mar 8th 2009, 13:50

I am in full agreement with V.Pulis - especially with the query which should be spontaneous to all - "can someone please explain the gesture with the fingers and the crucifix and what's supposed to be funny about it? " So it's not just the costume, it's the vulgarity of the persons concerned that is offensive.

C Borg

Mar 8th 2009, 13:35

May I humbly ask the Attorney General to drop the charges and let the person arrested free on a technical point as explained hereunder:

"for offending the State religion by dressing up as Christ during the Nadur carnival last month", so this person dressed up as Christ, this is the offence. But, who can actually tell with certainty what Christ looked like? If we look at the paintings by Giotto, Raffaello, etc, we'll get no where as these painted images according to the period in which they lived. The Shroud of Turin is debatable, so this cannot be taken as proof neither.

Conclusion: we have no idea what Christ looked like, thus, no one can truly dress up and look like Christ and offend the morals of this fair land.

Joe Grima

Mar 8th 2009, 13:31

My feling is that the Nadur Carnival could do without dubious representations such as religious iconography without losing anything from the attrraction it holds for Maltese and Gozitans. On the other hand it is obvious that an ageing local Church, seriously waning in attracting new elements towards it ,wants to show that it still has clout in this country by enforcing prosecutions.through its connections with the higher ecehelons of the Police force. Less and less people will move tiowards the Chruch when it employs these surreptious tactics. Just as well. Our Church still lives in the middle ages.

v.pulis

Mar 8th 2009, 12:42

Re the photo.I'm not at all bothered that the persons are dressed up as nuns. if the two men think it's hilarious and couldn't imagine anything else to wear more adapted to the occasion it's there problem but can someone please explain the gesture with the fingers and the crucifix and what's supposed to be funny about it?

a darmanin

Mar 8th 2009, 12:22

What a waste of time the churce is wasting on this issue. I think they better focus on more hotter things concerning the church, like pedophiles in its bosom. What if we had a carnival like the one in Brazil, everyone half naked? Mur ara x'jaghmlu kieku l-awtoritajiet, kif iqumu l-irwiefen kollha.

PM Camilleri

Mar 8th 2009, 12:19

Shame on those for ridiculing the Catholic faith. And shame on the authorities for having allowed such incidents to happen and do nothing. These are worrying signs of a sick country that is slowly losing its soul. But I am not surprised at such incidents. Because that is the fruit of the continuous blaspheming that is part of our language and culture. Shame on us. And this during the Pauline year. Is this our thank-you to God for giving us our Catholic faith?

Chris Reiff

Mar 8th 2009, 11:58

so the Pope forgave all the priests who committed pedophilia in the United States, he forgave the priest who had sexual contact with a woman who eventually bore a child, and here in Malta we cant forgive people who dress up as jesus or nuns???
and then we should take the priests seriously when they talk about forgiving others.

what a farce.

M Pace

Mar 8th 2009, 11:47

Dr John Damai

So you actually think that a criminal conviction is the Christian/ loving thing to do? You actually believe that Jesus Christ would have wanted that young man to go to prison or end up with a criminal record? Why were the bishops not as shocked when there were strong allegations of child abuse by a Gozitan priest who is as we speak living a few doorsteps away from the official residence of the bishop of Gozo? What I find most unacceptable is that it seems as if the police were acting under instructions of the bishops.

I wish I could find a way to channel my anger into something positive, that I could think of how to send a strong message to the Church that I for one do not recognise its authority and that it should stop speaking and acting in my name. Dr Damai hallik mis-songs ta' Freddie Portelli viva democracy and the rule of law.

J Busuttil

Mar 8th 2009, 11:45

The photo you published is an insult to our beliefs. Well said by the bishops. Well done to the Police.

Evarist Saliba

Mar 8th 2009, 11:42

@ Giuseppe Schembri Bonaci
Perhaps you were not in Malta when recently the local authorities prosecuted members of the clergy for paedophilia, otherwise you would not have written that our "pseudo modern secular state (?) refrains" from doing exactly that.

What is really disheartening in this episode is that there are people who feel that they have a right to riducle and offend the sentiments of other human beings to satisfy their own sense of humour, and others who stoutly defend this claimed right, even if this means breaking the law.

There are standands of good human behaviour which should be the hallmark of a civilised society. The presumed right to insult and offend is not one of them.

C.Sacco

Mar 8th 2009, 11:29

The Gozitan Bishop cried foul, the Gozitans said it wasn't us, the Gozitan Court dished out a suspended sentence. Next year the goriness of some costumes, especially those including any whiff to any Christian, Budhist, Muslim, Jew, etc, or police, magistrate, army, politician, etc.. cannot be worn at the Nadur Carinval.

The only option way forward. Boycot the Nadur Carnival. From next year, I will stay put in the local carnival celebrations, there is no point in returning there. Karnival b'Karnival nibqa Malta, kont nitla biex nara l-ghawdcin u xi Maltien maghhom jilbsu dawn it-tip ta affarijiet.

David Wain

Mar 8th 2009, 11:03

@ Dr. John Damai, who is "we"? Is some right to speak on behalf of all Maltese being claimed here? I am Maltese, have lived in Malta all my life, and find these laws funadmentalist and the Church's influence on this country's legilstive and executive institutions shameful.

Not all Maltese wish to be stuck in the middle ages Dr. Damai!! And we are not far off from Iran in this respect... look at the case of "Stitching"..... the limitations on individual freedoms are many times the same... the punishments are merely harsher in Iran, that is all.

Dr Giuseppe Schembri bonaci

Mar 8th 2009, 10:58

It is Orwellian ridiculous that in a pseudo modern secular (?) state one has the impression that whilst society subtly refrains from prosecuting clergy members for pedophilic actions it at the same time glorifies the arrest and suspended sentencies for a carnivalesque minor action.One has really forgotten that carnival's essence is in fact the subversion of authority, something that was wholly recognised even in the most totalitarian periods of Maltese history..

R. Bartolo

Mar 8th 2009, 10:56

"Just because loony Islamic fundamentalists think they can scream and shout if someone dares to joke about their religion, this doesn't mean that when the same thing is done in the name of Christianity, that's all right then."

But neither do we have to be extremist like them, because of envy of their extremism...

Franco Farrugia

Mar 8th 2009, 10:13

Of course the Bishops ' supported the action that had been taken, and the punishment meted out.' They themselves asked the Police to intervene, as reported in this very newspaper's 'sister' (no pun intended!), The Times.

The problem with the Bishops, as well as with some other organisations/authorities in this countries, is that the more you bring to light and harp and stamp your feet on these stupid, idiotic and senseless acts (such as those reputedly witnessed in the Nadur carnival), the more you are going to have such acts taking place, the next time round! Therefore, my judgement is that in this case, the Bishops should have remained quiet.

After all, there is so much more mayhem in society that the Bishops choose to be quiet about, and which take place all year round, not just on a bloomin' night of Carnival in Gozo!

And it's useless having some smart alec saying things such as 'this is the law and therefore they will get what the law gives them' because to such people, I simply ask whether they ever chose to break the law themselves!!!

But again, this is hypocritical Malta!

Joseph Camilleri

Mar 8th 2009, 10:06

And to think that Jesus, more than 2,000 years ago, had this to say about the Carnival incident at Nadur: "But I say unto you, Love thy enemies, bless those that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you." (Matthew 5:44)

leonardo vince

Mar 8th 2009, 10:01

'Police acted swiftly on the bishops' advice to crack down on people' - the bishops should be ashamed of themselves when Christ asked for love and forgiveness.

Brian Ferrante

Mar 8th 2009, 10:01

"Swearwords, making fun of religious iconography, the profanation of sacred places and the obscenities that took place in public, all offended human dignity as well as our beliefs," the council said."

Things that happen during most village feasts (not necessarily that of Nadur). Are our Bishops going to ask the police to prosecute all those who break the law during religious feasts?

Dr. John Damai

Mar 8th 2009, 09:58

Reading some of the comments is testimonium of how many individuals get demented by the mere fact of people trying to live righteous and be more conscientious than others. If a person is a true atheist that means they do not acknowledge God, and not even be bothered or show as much emotion as you and I would towards a lucky charm. But what we have here is the contrary and evidently the majority of these religion haters are not even Maltese. Are our islands so much in dire need of foreign influence that we should alter, our culture and our laws to suit? If the law states the impersonation of a priest is illegal than who ever breaks the law must pay. This is not like Iran, we are not amputating hand here and I would expect these critics to glance at worse countries than ours. And as a Maltese I am happy my country is not a Gomorra. Viva Malta u il-Maltin. Huti, jekk nitilfu lil L'Alla nitilfu kollox.