Bishops urge authorities to act on Nadur Carnival

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 17th 2009, 10:41

Because I believe in fairness, I have to point out that Dr Francis Saliba has posted a reply to my previous post here: http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20090226/local/gozo-bishop-condemns-offensive-behaviour-at-gozo-carnival

Of course, I have also posted my own reply to it.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 11th 2009, 15:21

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

...also, if the police knew that the "offender" was acting illegally, why was he not arrested on the spot? The only explanation I can think of is that they were turning a blind eye, since it is carnival after all. If you have a better explanation, please enlighten us.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 11th 2009, 15:19

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

And yet, you evade the basic question. If a person is caught red-handed, what is there to investigate?

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 11th 2009, 14:16

@Kenneth Cassar

The answer should be obvious, but since it is obvioiusly not so to you, here goes. Police investigations are confidential and the Bishop of Gozo does not form part of the Gozo police force he would not know what was going on at the police station.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 11th 2009, 13:07

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

"all those of good will Now that the Commissioner of Police has officially clarified that the charges in respect of the Nadur Carnival activities were NOT commenced as a result of the statement by Archbishop Paul Cremona and Bishop Mario Grech"

Of course not...charges are only brought up in court. However, if you meant investigations, if this is so, then why did the Bishops have to urge the authorities to act.

If, as you say, the "charges" (elsewhere you said "investigations") started as soon as the "offences" were observed by the police, then was there any need for any investigations? Being caught red-handed does not require any investigation.

Juanita Borg

Mar 10th 2009, 21:16

Dear Louise 21 year old uni student,
Even I am your age attending the uni atm, yet I still don t find anything scandalous what so ever. What I find scandalous is that I am doing my course, need the full understanding of the person in charge, who happens to be an active catholic follower..., who is making it difficult for me and my collegues to practice. S/He knows exactly the situation we students are in, and the faculty knows the situation s/he poses us to... yet it seems that no one can do anything about it.... now what about humans helping other human beings???
Also, as previously mentioned, we can mention the obscenities we heared in the past....
.... and what about refusing batism of a newborn just because s/he is outside marriage?? s/he's not a god sent as well? a baby outisde marraige was not god's child2000yrs ago....should it be like that nowadays???
However, I do believe in God, yet don t agree with some of the church's practices... I believe we should all live and treat others as we want to be treated...

Joe Xuereb

Mar 10th 2009, 15:32

Forgiveness is only for those who repent. Unless of course, they have their own agenda up their sleeve. A case in point is Galileo who, wise man that he was, decided that he would be no use to anybody dead, least of all to himself. So he repented and lived to tell his tale. The rest, as they say, is history. For this alone, Galilero will live on. For his genius he will live forever. As for the pope who indicted him, he will be lucky to figure as a footnote in one of the many volumes about my man Gal. Oh he had the gall that one, to manipulate the situation to his own ends.

Alan Vella

Mar 10th 2009, 10:15

I swore I wouldn't comment again on this issue. But this comment warrants repeating:

"Ejjew nimmaturaw ftit u ndahqu b'mod serju"

Classic stuff Mr Busuttil.

W. Busuttil

Mar 9th 2009, 17:29

Nixtieq naghmel kumment zghir fuq din il-bicca tal-KArnival. Ejjew ma nqabblux bejn Insara u Musulmanni... nahseb li hawn zghazagh bizzejjed maturi biex ma jaqawx fil-hmieg li jwaqqghu religjonijiet ghac-cajt. Il-Knisja ma tistax tibqa halqha maghluqa meta tara l-persuna tal-Iben t'Alla tigi mwaqqa' ghac-cajt u ghaz-zufjett b'dak il-mod. Nahseb jien ma jidholx cajt b'dan il-mod. Possibli li minn tant karattri, nies u personalitajiet tigi mwaqqa' ghac-cajt l-persuna ta' Kristu! Dan mhux biex jipprova jwaqqa' ghac-cajt ir-religjon! Jien m'inhiex persuna ta' 70 sena u lanqas antikwat, jiena ghandi 19-il sena u qieghed l-Universita. Ejjew nimmaturaw ftit u ndahqu b'mod serju. Wara kollox dan kien ksur tal-ligi!

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 9th 2009, 13:54

@ all those of good will Now that the Commissioner of Police has officially clarified that the charges in respect of the Nadur Carnival activities were NOT commenced as a result of the statement by Archbishop Paul Cremona and Bishop Mario Grech but that they had actually started beforehand, immediately the offences were observed by the police, is it too much to hope that our local anti clericals who habitually grasp every opportunity to malign Malta’s Catholicity would express regret for their much resented incitement?

John Meli

Mar 8th 2009, 19:24

We all agree that those who had acted or done any indecent acts should be procecuted and sentenced.As catholics we can forgive, even the Bishops can do this, but the authorities cannot have this facility, because if one had broke the law, they must face criminal justice.

The main point will always remain that according to official Police Reports and those of the Ministry of Justice & Home Affairs stated that photographs published in media (internet) and supplied to the authorities do demonstrated that their bad behaviour was "not simply a case of people dressing up as Christ or that of saints" but much more, so it's a matter of "a question of public indecency and offending religious sentiment, some by showing or exhibition of Jesus Phallus (penis)" - Do you approve such a things, making fun of Jesus?

We all support our Bishops, because we believe and respect God, who is in Heaven who one-day will come to Judge those who do disrespectful acts (unless repent) including myself, if I would have done such things !! In my opinion, have fun, but not with anyone connected to other religions.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 8th 2009, 14:19

@JScerri

Be serious. Forgiveness is for those who ask for it and who show repentance for their folly. Judging by these comments forgiveness has not been asked for. If anything some of them show a determination to continue to break the law in addition to being disrespectful towards Christ, the Catholic Church and many thousands of their fellow countrymen who pray that the criminal law and the constitution be shown the respect due in a civilised society.

G.Schembri

Mar 8th 2009, 11:47

@ all those who in the name of God support the police and court into taking action and convicting this youth and to the Holier than thou Bshops.
How many of you protested when an employer made his employees undress to check if they were menstruating. I AM STILL WAITING FOR THE POLICE TO TAKE ACTION.
I also expect you fervent christians to complain.

J. Scerri

Mar 8th 2009, 05:15

And what about the word MAHFRA ? The church always tell people repeatedly to forgive but when it comes that they are somehow involved in something, they do the right OPPOSITE. Nice way to give the EXAMPLE !! Like the italian saying : PREDICANO BENE MA RAZZOLANO MALE.

Will now the church's administration tell the authorities to arrest and punish every person that doesn't go to church regulary too ? Or maybe those who doesn't own a copy of the bible ? Are we in 2009 or 1909 ?

Joe Borg

Mar 7th 2009, 17:07

Can the competent authorities reply to, if any permits were issued to Catholic schools who used catholic habits ( priest/nuns and naval/military uniforms in their annual plays or concerts ???? Sister Act is just an example....

Joe Borg

Mar 7th 2009, 17:02

So it appears that it was through the Bishop's insistency that this young man has now been condemned to live with the report of bad conduct for the rest of his life. Is this Christianity at it's best ??? Are they feeling that justice has been done ???

John Meli

Mar 7th 2009, 15:58

@ Alister Farrugia::You stated: "church tells you what to wear .. what if i want to dress like jesus everyday ? maybe i'm eccentric and want to look like that .. will i get arrested ??" My reply is that I'm afraid if you don't know the exact facts, don't talk, just verify the facts and then reply!!.

You accused and Judged the Bishops left right&centre w/o knowing facts to what happened. According to official Police Reports and that of a spokesman from the Ministry of Justice & Home Affairs said that photographs published in the media and supplied to the authorities do demonstrated that their bad behaviour was "not simply a case of people dressing up as Christ or that of saints" but MUCH MORE--OK, so it's a matter of "a question of public indecency and offending religious sentiment by showing or exhibition of Jesus Phallus (penis)" - Do you approve?

As Catholics we support our Bishops in this, because we believe and respect God our Father who is in Heaven who one-day will Judge those who do disrespectful acts (unless repent) including me if I would have done such a thing !!

Stephen Borg

Mar 7th 2009, 15:37

Carnival is a very positive event and I hope that the Nadur Carnival continues to grow strong as it has done during the past years. Carnival helps people to forget reality and have some fun wearing costumes and looking funny but people should also be responsible for their actions and whilst having fun they should never offend others. It is not acceptable that in order to have fun people resort in ridiculing the believes of others.

Frans Sammut

Mar 7th 2009, 14:27

I can understand atheists, even agnostics, to take the Jesus figure lightly. But that self-confessed Catholics (nobody has to date hinted otherwise) make fun of Jesus and in public to boot, is, to say, the least confusing. That so many others, also after Carnival (when they might have the excuse of being too drunk to realize what the meaning of their actions) should come out and defend this idiotic manifestation is ... mind-boggling.
My sympathies go to Mgr Mario Grech who is trying to live out his bishopric without much fuss or ostentation but is still forced to sound like an autocrat (which he is not) buy some idiotic brats who do not know whether they're coming or going. Do us a favour, Nadurizi and Maltese holidaymakers, and grow up. At least try to. You're making nobody laugh, just creating a lot of hassle which nobody really needs. We already have "Xarabank" trying to be Malta's answer to the US' Jerry Springer Show. We don't need the Jerry Springer Road Show too.

alister farrugia

Mar 7th 2009, 14:06

so now the church tells you what to wear .. what if i want to dress like jesus everyday ? yes maybe im eccentric and i want to look like that .. will i get arrested ??
it s a big contradiction .
catholics worship and pray to jesus . but if you happened to have long hair and a beard you might not be accepted in society that s because in this country you have to follow one religion , same thinking , if possible short hair you have to have 1 of the 2 political parties and it s ok to talk behind people s back instead of facing one another , like that jesus might not hear you and you re still safe ...
im sure that if jesus comes back he ll be very disappointed on how the church explains his teachings , he tought with common sense and not scare people with hell and sins and other things ...now that s an everyday insult to jesus ...
it s not how you want to look like , it s the intention and the act that counts .
those who have not sinned throw the firststone

C Busuttil

Mar 6th 2009, 22:07

@Giljan Agius andlikes

I do not go to church and don't agree on certain issues with the church, however I am not a hypocrite, on this issue the church is right. Carnival or not, Nobody has the right to offend any religion. You are just using the issue to attack the church, people like you have no principles and I would add no values. Simply because you aren't capable of saying loud and clear that what happened was wrong. No justification no excuses. Instead you resort to attack the church using even what's wrong to justify your ends. Acase of Hidden Agenda!!!!!!!!!!

About the Nadur carnival leaving aside what happened with those gozitan youths, the maltese should make a favour and not ruin what was a spontaneous carnival. How is it that the maltese NEED a carnival celebration held in a small gozitan village. The reason is simple they are incapable of organizing one since they will ruin it from the start. With a population nearly 100 times as much, its incredible that our youths can't organize one and need Nadur. Lazy bunch of bones. To add insult to injury they ruin the place with their behaviour, is-soltu maltin

Jim Luvali

Mar 6th 2009, 14:47

It would have been ironic indeed to see "Jesus and his Apostles" arrested in the street by the Police on dubious charges at the request of the leaders of the majority religion!

Will there be a popular fund set up so that people can contribute to the defence costs if this travesty ever comes to court? I would be happy to subscribe...

Alison Bezzina

Mar 6th 2009, 12:55

Before judging either way one should know that Carnival existed way before Christianity - in fact it's a Pagan ritual but when the Church couldn’t suppress it, it wisely adapted it to its own traditions. For instance, "carnival" really stems from "carrus navalis": the "naval car" or ship, which carried the Celtic and Germanic Sea-God from his Northern abode to the winter feasts. The medieval Church reinterpreted this as the Ship of Fools, on which all kinds of sinners sail to their death. Carnival, whether as Anti-Lent or pagan revelry, is thus a ritual of reversal and, at the same time, balance. Now that church attendance and fasting is at an all time low....perhaps the Church should once again be wise and re-interpret such things....or else take it with a bucket of salt.
I would more readily refind my faith in the Church if it stood up for the animal atrocities that go on during the Nadur carnival. Those hurt God's creatures physically in no vague or unsure way!

MG Buttigieg

Mar 6th 2009, 12:54

To all those who give much consideration to the economic factor of the Nadur Carnival as a money spinner.
For you the old adage, "Sin does not pay". I have just been talking with an estate agent who leases out farmhouses and flats. He was informed by one owner that THE YOUNG PEOPLE who had crossed over for carnival have declared that for next year they are not interested in coming over. The were disgusted by the behaviour of some!!!!!!!! THEY ARE STAYING AWAY. Bye Bye protection of our niche markets!!!

Nathalie Vella

Mar 6th 2009, 12:54

@ A. Tabone

Tista tghidli kif, dawn id-disa irgiel li inti qas biss rajt b'ghajnejk geghluk ihossok " ridikolat, mghajjar u nsultat"?

Joe Xuereb

Mar 6th 2009, 12:53

Where an action is its offensiv e nature is debateable, the law and the Constitution should not be invokded. They are only man-made and like feasts, moveable. I have been offended for my homosexuality all my life. I did not take anyone to court. I just learned to rise above my attackers. The Church could do the same. I wonder why it does not. As for thinly-veiled
threats nodding at fatwa retributions, since when are we starting to emulate that system to control our people? And since when is a representation of the male genital organ offensive?
A child witnessing such might of course ask some awkward questions but a mature parent can surely deal with this more than adequately. In any case it is certainly now worse than a young child being held shoulder head to get a better view at the Holy Week pageant, terrified out of its wits at all the flagellation and gore and his/her daddy trying in vain to assuage the
terror by soothingly, if none too effectively, saying: 'It is OK darling, il-Bambin iħobbok'.

Nathalie Vella

Mar 6th 2009, 12:50

@ L.Galea

FYI, no honey I was not one of them. Actually I was just an innocent bystander wearing a very tatty snow white costume and I actually wish I wore something more original. However I do not see how this is any of your business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadur_Carnival - I urge you to go here on this very friendly and non commital site and read the short article.

And can you please explain to me how, exactly, are you so opinionated and self assured on the matter when you were not even there? Next year, please do visit I think you'll actually enjoy it if you lighten up and stop being so self righteous

A Tabone

Mar 6th 2009, 10:08

@ franco farrugia

kuntenti li tistmana ta' antikwati, nies bhali u bhal Louise Grech. L-aqwa li naf li dak li hu iswed nghidlu iswed u dak li hu abjad nghid li hu abjad, indipendentment int kemm tghajjarna xjuh u ta' 70 sena! Wara kollox kif jghid il-Malti,: "Kliem ix-xih zomm fih"...

u bilhaqq Univerista bhalek miniex , u 70 sena m'ghandix .... pero xorta kapaci nidjaloga bhalek... mhux int biss intelligenti, avolja izghar minnek fiz-zmien. pero ma noqghodx nilghabha tal-gharef.

Imbghad jghidu li min ma jemminx u mhux kattoliku huwa diskriminat!!!! Iktar nahseb bil-maqlub, ghax illum li jkollok valur nsara ifisser li tkun ridikolat, mghajjar u nsultat.

Nadia Borg

Mar 6th 2009, 09:41

One thing that is clear from these blogs is that support for the church is probably at an all time low. Evidently a good chunk of the 'catholic' population lives in total indifference to what the church says. This is in stark contrast to days gone by where the church was blindly obeyed and feared.

Well done to the Times for these blogs - when we only used to read the printed pro-church letters one would think we lived in a Bishop's fifedom, with the entire population behind him. Obviously this was far from reality.

E. Attard

Mar 6th 2009, 09:40

...c ontinued

therefore who ever said that people will stop going to mass since the these actions were punished - its not true ! we are all free to choose in life ! and this is what is so nice about our religion - God leaves us free to choose to be bad or good.

Some people really need to grow up !

E. Attard

Mar 6th 2009, 09:36

@chris Mifsud and some others ..

You don;t have to be a religious person or one who attends church to condem such obscene costumes - and it is not a matter of age neither .... The matter is that there are limits to things and sometimes ceratin people like to go overboard these limits to shock people or to attract attention ! Nowadays certain (not to generalise) youngsters have it all and since they have it all, they are bored and try to attract attention inventing new things. This is what they wanted - all the attention from the Church and the people who got shocked by what they did - this is exactly what they wanted. However in my opinion this shows a sign of immaturity and bad taste. Coz of a few stupid people such an occasion like carnival got ruined !

.. and by the way God leaves us free always therefore we are free not to go to mass if we want - it is your impression that the Church forces us to go to church - priests who represent God try to guide us but then people are free.

MG Buttigieg

Mar 6th 2009, 09:10

@ Giljan Agius
it is very convenient for you to remind us of Jesus's behaviour with sinners. But it is also good to remember the occassion when Jesus entering the temple and seeing the way it was being profaned by sellers got very angry and he said, "My house is to be called a house of prayer,' but you are turning it into a hideout for bandits!" Well it seems that a small minority wants to turn our streets into an obsecene, decadent cesspit.
Some of the bloggers are openly declaring that they have removed Jesus from the lives. Well it also seems that they have enthroned King Carnival and they are now paying their allegiance to him. Good Luck to them.
& Dr. F. Saliba
thanks for your strong coherent arguments. Keep it up

steve shaw

Mar 6th 2009, 07:47

Oh Come on! It's Carnival and as long people are having fun in a safe way it's ok. Next time instead of staying at home stuck on your pc and moaning about get all yourself a costume and have some fun.

silvio farrugia

Mar 6th 2009, 07:36

The laws should be changed and reflect to-day's reallity.....does the church think that it is the all powerfull ,like before ? Your time of power is over though that is all you are after....religon was and is still the cause of so much violence and pain weather politicians use it as an excuse or not ...facts

D.MANGION

Mar 6th 2009, 06:47

@ Chris Mifsud

...in order to "move ahead with the times" you need to be sure that you are moving forward !

Can we all be sure that our society is moving at any direction whatsoever ?

I'll leave that up to your maturity to decide....I have my own opinion about that...but that is MY opinion, and it doesn't necessarily apply to all.

However let me quote John Lennon...who was not a Church man for sure ! About 40 years ago he wrote and sang...

"How can I go forward when I don't know which way I'm facing ?"

I don't find the act of dressing up as Jesus Christ or Mohammed(even in carnival time) as a sign of "moving ahead with times ".

But then again this is MY opinion.

Apparently for some people Ridicule is more sacred than Religion . As for the future, we'll reap what we sow.

Manwel Saliba

Mar 6th 2009, 06:20

Asking the police to prosecute - Is the tollerance and forgiveness taught by the Catholic Religion. Do the bishops react in the same way when a member of the clergy is accused? When pointing your finger towards others, your third finger point towards you. The proposed actions will create antagonism towards the church among the young generation. What are the bishops of Brazil saying about Carnival - a catholic tradition before ash wednesday.

Mario Brikkun Vella

Mar 6th 2009, 04:21

Maybe the church should lay low in the same manner it did (and still does) when something is actually worth speaking out for. Homophobia? Land speculation? Nonsensical taxes? The hijacking of village festas (now THERE's one tradition deserving the Archbishop's immediate attention ) the mismanagement of public funds? The taciturn stance taken on the GENOCIDES witnessed during the past century!!! (the church never really voiced its dissent over any Military involvement or the rise of fascism and Nazism....it still doesn't (cue the disaccociation with anything related to Iraq /Afghanistan). Did 9 kids donning a robe to offend it's fragile sensibility!? Bible Bashing is truly the LAST thing we need in this country.

Mario Brikkun Vella

Mar 6th 2009, 03:58

I am truly and utterly disgusted by the church's patronising attitude towards the Maltese.
This is nothing but fundamentalism. LIVE AND LET LIVE. I personally do not care about Jesus Christ or the Church and feel I should have the freedom to express my thoughts...even send up Christianity in any way I deem fit. To be fair I do not even care for Carnival but I'll be the first to grow locks and don a white robe should any of this nonsense be followed up by the authorities.

L..Galea

Mar 5th 2009, 22:32

Nathalie Vella
Yes. Read the reports about it in last Sunday's newspapers and see the photos. There were also letters to the same effect. Hope you are not denying it because you were one of them.
And is turning Nadur streets into a public convenience acts of the human species or of animals?

a abela

Mar 5th 2009, 21:51

Franco, don't shed bad light on university students..

Robert Gatt

Mar 5th 2009, 21:12

Those people who are simply adding insult to injury, please stop doing so and acknowledge, once and for all, that there is no place or time for indecent and illicit behaviour! Defending acts prohibited by the Law is completely irrational and stupid, to say the least! As Simon Aquilina rightly pointed out, simply because it is Carnival, this doesn't mean that no laws apply! That is precisely what the Bishops were saying, and many people are just criticising what they said simply because it was said by the Bishops! Law was broken in various respects and law is not there just to be on record, but is motivated, in part, by the respect that one should show towards fellow human beings. Those who tried to ridicule our Christian identity by dressing up as Christ or the Appostles and those who transformed Nadur into a public 'latrina' were totally disrespectful towards others, and these should be brought to justice! Those who are arguing that "If you don't like it, stay away" are simply declaring their total lack of respect towards other people! Nadur Carnival has become, as somebody put it, a national disgrace! Shame on those responsible for these obscenities!

Chris Finch

Mar 5th 2009, 21:00

As if I needed an example of everything that is wrong with organised religion.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7926694.stm
Shame on the church for excommunicating those who wanted to save the life of a little girl who has already seen so much horror in her short life.
Also I dont recall the Bishops urging the authorities to act when a young girl was gang raped on Gozo. Instead we had a priest urging the parents to drop the case. And that report didnt see nearly as many people commenting.

Mark J. Magri

Mar 5th 2009, 20:44

If I were in the rule of this country,I abolish Carnival celebrations for at least ten years.
No one has the right to seriously offend our morals with the excuse of celebrating Carnival.

Gerry Cowie

Mar 5th 2009, 20:28

@Louise Grech.

Well said!

I think Franco Farrugia has nothing constructive to say and therefore simply mocks you and the university.

I wonder what his age is? If he thinks you sound 70, then I think he has some serious growing up to do!

What is so sad here is the nastiness and scorn and general sarcasm of those commenters who are simply anti the church which is doing its best to defend what little in this world still gets any respect!

Surely all you politically correct people out there should in fact be supporting the church!

Joseph Masini

Mar 5th 2009, 20:20

I would like to say that I fully agree with Bishops Cremona and Grech. I think that the Nadur Carnival should be controlled- being spontaneous does not give people the right to redicule their own religion. Unfortunately, in Malta, we argue when someone redicules other religions, and don´t say absolutely nothing when someone redicules our official and main religion.

Michael Schembri

Mar 5th 2009, 20:18

first of all let's clarify.. offence is not the same as hurting... offence is subjective.. financial, physical or psychological injury is factual..law can only function on facts...it is illegal to dress up as priests nuns and cops because of practical reasons..not out of respect

many developed countries have established the need to separate church and state - I think it is time that this subject is addressed by the authorities - there should not be discrimination or special protection of any religion or believe! (if there really is a law favouring/protecting the roman catholic religion)

I challenge the by-the-book catholics and church, to accept such a transition without any resistance.. if you strongly believe in your (pagan/roman)rituals and god.. I would assume that you would not feel threatened by equality

"there probably is no god..stop worrying and enjoy your life"

Marton Saliba

Mar 5th 2009, 20:15

This Is atrocius and Preposterous! Why are the bishops ta talk about this. It's a pity that the consitution backs them. That law must be removed. The catholic church hasa long poisoned the mind of man, and now it's hindering the individual to have fun in a feast which is orginally ANTI-christian!!!

I't like prohibiting beef and pork at a BBQ...

This is not about inulting some religion...this is about a handful of people controlling the societies and the human existence.

I never was at Nadur, but even hearing about it made me chuckle, have you people heard of satire, that ridicules politics, and since the church has a political upholding in this little sorry country,it's pretty much satire as well.

As for you commentors who are bragging about the immorality of the actions (in maltese:tilghaqu...), it's CARNIVAL at NADUR!!! GET OVER IT! Monthy Python ridicules faith, and so does Hystory of the world part one, they're some of the best comedies ever! Hypocrates, all of you.

KM Vella

Mar 5th 2009, 20:08

I fail to see the Bishops' point. Personally, I feel the costumes in question blended well with the rest of the fictional characters.

A Abela

Mar 5th 2009, 20:07

@ Franco Farrugia

Weren't you a student a couple of years ago at the university?

Nathalie vella

Mar 5th 2009, 19:29

@ Joe Scerri- Half naked people? It was February for crying out loud! And freezing..

@ A. Tabone - There were a lot of people dressed as Mohammed's

@ Johnny Smith - A grainy 3 second video on YOUTUBE you watched does not mean you can tell us what we saw with our own eyes. Those people were dressed as caveman not Jesus. Will you please STOP planting false ideas into people's heads.

c.camilleric

Mar 5th 2009, 19:05

@ John A Zammit. I am still waiting for the police to take action against the culprits.

Franco Farrugia

Mar 5th 2009, 18:52

@ Louise Grech:
Fully Agree with bishops Cremona and Grech. I believe that what was wrong 2000 years ago, is still wrong today and will be wrong forever.

And no, I am not a 70yr old - old fashioned woman but a 21 yr old University student.'

1. Well, It's good that you gave us your age: you certainly DO sound like a 70-yr old.
2. University student, you say? Oh well, we all know how the University is failing in certain respects.

I wish you well.

c.galea

Mar 5th 2009, 18:48

@johnny smith
For your information at first they had the figure of a large "genetal organ" on a cart. So they where not just dressed decently (see my previous note) but very indecent.
jin kont wiehed min dawn it 8, li qed issemi int , ahna ma konniex libsin ta gesu !! u l appostli li qed tejd !! li libsu ta gesu ma kellomx xjaqsmu mana , ahna ta cave men konna libsin , tiga ktibtlek qabel , u maghna kenna 2 mizbuwajn suwed , ma nahsibx li kin emm apostli suwed sa fejn naf jin

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 5th 2009, 18:33

@ Johnny Smith:

As C Galea explained, those with costumes with huge genitals were not dressed as Jesus, but as cavemen. Also, as C Galea also said, they were there after 23.00 hrs.

Yes, the commissioner for children should take note that it is irresponsible for parents to take children to Nadur Carnival at 23.00 hrs, particularly because the huge crowds and the revelry make it dangerous for them.

peter paul portelli

Mar 5th 2009, 18:12

While I completely disagree with those who tried to make us laugh by dressing up as some kind of religious/spirtual image; i would like to comment on the state of ANARCHY Nadur turned up to be on that carnival saturday. What a shame!! we had thousands of people openly breaking the law (in various aspects) with a handful of police who literally could not do anything except ignore what was going on when their solemn duty was to protect and enforce the law. Since when is it ok for nadur to be turned into a 'latrina'. I personally witnessed people peeing in the middle of the street next to unoccupied portable toilets. if this is not arrogance and stupidity what is it? What gives anyone the right to go into private property, and turn it into a 'mizbla'? Who are you to tell the people of Nadur: 'if you dont like it dont show up'? I expect that the commissioner of police should have the decency, come to Nadur, and address the locals that such obscenities, low people, are not to be allowed to walk all over us, ridicule our intelligence and disrespect our dignity.

Sarah Muscat

Mar 5th 2009, 17:53

Just give me a break!! I am a Christian and forgiveness as far as I know is for those who are sorry for their actions - Are these people who ridiculed my religion really sorry for their actions because I don't recall seeing any apologies from either the Organisers or any other person responsible for this? Furthermore, I was an avid visitor of Nadur carnival and one thing is for sure that this is not an event where children should be taken. Now, it is also an event which I will boycot because I don't see why I should bother going to such a place where my religious beliefs are blatantly being ridiculed.

A.Hili

Mar 5th 2009, 17:52

Remember that Carnival = Ridicule. Do most of you here commenting sincerely and seriously believe that religious themes should be tolerated during Carnival?!! And I m not commenting just because the church banned these actions. It is just obvious .. why should, of all the ideas and themes that can be used in carnival, religion be one of them?!! You can ridicule anything .. but why do we have to ridicule religion?!! Its not a question of humor or being funny its a question of ridiculing and mocking!!

Giljan Agius

Mar 5th 2009, 17:46

what happened to the forgiveness so blatantly worn in Christianity?

Didn't christ pick up tax collectors, whores, etc etc on his way? While your Christ forgives the man who speared him, you look to the ground, looking for the nearest stone and the nearest victim.

Johnny Smith

Mar 5th 2009, 17:40

@Nathalie Vella:: See this report because it states " In my opinion as the Bishop of Gozo we had complained that some people had dressed up as the Risen Christ while others had imitated Christ surrounded by the Apostles in an effort to make people laugh." But they are humble and did not give the exact sort of dress they had. For your information at first they had the figure of a large "genetal organ" on a cart. So they where not just dressed decently (see my previous note) but very indecent.

In my humble opinion these persons where trying to commence not only a revolution against the church, but make Christ part of the laughing stock of their act. Do you agree with this sort of attitude?.

John A. Zammit

Mar 5th 2009, 17:25

I ask those who are defending what happened at Nadur to take a look at Article 163 of the Criminal Code which deals with the vilification of the Roman Catholic Apostolic religion. What took place at Nadur is without a shadow of doubt a breach of this article and it was the duty of the Police to stop those concerned from parading and BRING THEM TO BOOK. This the Police can still do since there is a prescriptive period of two years.

Paul Xuereb

Mar 5th 2009, 17:23

i can't believe this. Like the Alister farrugia said, " why is the church so intimidated?" first of all if the church thinks that carnival is immoral and an attack against the church, why do you need the government to take action. have you ever heard of separation of church and state. Additionally getting the government to take action is clear violation of freedom of speech, as well as an attack on the minority. The majority has no right to suppress the minority, that's communism. As long as these people were not on church property, then they did not break any laws.

Simon J. Aquilina

Mar 5th 2009, 17:23

Just because it is carnival it does not mean “no laws apply”. Truth is that the authorities should have acted on the sport! If not on moral grounds (which in my opinion should be enough) then on legal grounds, since as the two Bishops said; “These values, [are] upheld by the Constitution and the laws”! So those of view arguing that nothing must be done are in favor of living in a country where it’s same laws (made be people democratically elected, and not the church) are not respected. Being laws that favor the church or not is irrelevant, the laws of Malta where broken and our authorities decided to do nothing. Therefore this story can be followed in only two ways; either change the law and make it possible to offend other peoples believes or else to (at least try) bring these people to justice! If none of these two happen then it means that here in Malta we have laws that can be disrespected without need to be afraid of prosecutions and thus would introduce a huge precedent on such topics (if not also others).

Jim Luvali

Mar 5th 2009, 17:18

Could someone please explain to me EXACTLY what Law has been broken?

Clive Gerada

Mar 5th 2009, 17:18

Well the muslims got insulted because of a stupid caricature, why the Christians cannot feel insulted for some people who felt the vocation to be apostles for one evening :)

s schembri

Mar 5th 2009, 17:16

@Brian Fenech

Part 2 of 2

‘The gold in the church and the diamonds…’. I invite you to reflect on this passage :

John 12: 3-8
3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.
4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, which should betray him,
5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? (.. this seems yery similar to your comment dear Brian !! but read on, Jesus will answer you directly ! )
6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a athief, and had the bbag, and bare what was put therein.
7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: aagainst the day of my burying hath bshe kept this.
8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.
(ref: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/john/12/3#3)

s schembri

Mar 5th 2009, 17:15

@Brian Fenech

Part 1 of 2

You said that ‘Jesus said that we should make no replicas ..’. That is written in the old testament so it cannot be that Jesus said that. That passage is wrongly interpreted by most people. That order was given because in those days they used to make a statue and adore that statue, i.e. that statue became god itself !

A Tabone

Mar 5th 2009, 17:13

Ara hawnx xi cowboy jilbes ta' Mohammed!!

Imbghad tkellmu...

Jew hekk nistghu inweggghu lin-nies. Allura ta' Kristu, le?

Nistennew u naraw.........

c.camilleri

Mar 5th 2009, 17:11

We know what happens in Europe when someone tries ridicule the muslim religion.

c. galea

Mar 5th 2009, 16:58

nixtieq niccara xi affarijiet , fuq il gazzetti qed jidru ritratti ta nies b genitali kbar u artikli tahthom, biex ma ngerfxux !!! ma konniex libsin ta gesu !!! ta cave man u min ma kienx emm ma jiktibx pls ghax qed tgerfxu !! dak kin xi hadd iehor li kin libes ta gesu ! jekk xi hadd ha xi skandlu jew offendejna l xi hadd nikuzaw ruhna , pero ahna wara l 23.30 tlajna u dak m huwiex hin ta tfal !! nerga nejd ma kollnix libsin ta gesu !!! fuq il gazetti mhux jidru cari , pero jekk xi hadd irid jiltaqa mana noruwom ritratti u taraw ta xix konna libsin!!

Joe Scerri

Mar 5th 2009, 16:54

What I find most offending is the obscenities that take place during village festas all in the name of religion. Half naked drunken people singing, swearing and hurling beer bottles in front of their favorite statue. Paganism at its very best. Loud bangs from early morning till late at night. The closure of main roads and the macho attitude of certain band club presidents. The rivalry and pique between band clubs. Need I go on?

alister farrugia

Mar 5th 2009, 16:43

if the church has such strong faith and beleifs why do they seem to be so intimidated by the way a few people express themselves ???
it s called freedom of expression , have they abused or harmed anyone physically ? have they affected anyone s life in anyway ? no ! why should authorities have the right to act because people get insulted .. i ve been insulted many times however i did nt feel the need to complain to authorities about it .
just get on with it ...
peace .....

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 5th 2009, 16:35

Get back on track!

This is not about the teaching of the Church. It is not about what Jesus is wrongly quoted as saying or about the crass and unbelievable assetion that He would be amused by the obscene goings on at the Nadur Carnival. It is not about the pretence of a small vociferous minority that is unable to enjoy carnival without giving offence.

It is about the criminal law of the land. As long as it is the law of the land, no one has the right to place himself above it or to expect that the police should look the other way. It would be a gross dereliction of duty on the part of the police to allow the law to be flouted in their presence and for no better reason than that of allowing a shameless blasphemous minority to act disrespectfully and offensively towards the religious sentiments of others.

V. Formosa

Mar 5th 2009, 16:24

Perhaps we should not remain a silent majority. What's good is good and what bad is bad in any language, society or religion. Reading through these comments make me wonder how sick a society we have become where everything goes and only the rights of the minorities are sacrosanct. The majority will have to grin and bear it. I say 'well said' to our spiritual leaders and it's about time that the so-called silent majority should stand up to be counted.

Nathalie Vella

Mar 5th 2009, 16:18

@ L. Galea

Having sex in front of all? Are you serious? Stop blowing this out of proportion as most people are doing. As I suggested to someone else - next year go to Nadur and see what we are talking about instead of just stating what you 'heard' from a friend of a friend and judge for yourself. I was there and NOONE was having sex in public. Come on PEOPLE! Get your facts right

Ronald Cauchi

Mar 5th 2009, 16:17

"Methinks they doth protest too much" I've always thought that religion makes one lose ones sense of humour. If they cant laugh at themselves and their beliefs they must be very insecure in the strength and veracity of their faith!

Nathalie Vella

Mar 5th 2009, 16:12

@ Johnny Smith -

Those people were not dressed up as Jesus. Do your homework. Instead of sitting in front of your computer watching videos on YOUTUBE and assuming things why not go up to Nadur next year. Who knows - you might even have some fun!

Jeffrey Galea

Mar 5th 2009, 16:10

Toady's society is characterised by Freedom, however it is increasingly becoming evident there are certain people who don't know how to live their freedom properly.

Freedom in one's life does not give him/her the right to offend the beliefs of others, even if it is carnival time.

These people should realise that their behaviour was not appropriate, and should learn to live in today's civilised society. A quick glance at the Gospels should give such people a good example of how to live their lives whilst respecting that of others.

Nathalie Vella

Mar 5th 2009, 16:09

It's called Carnival because people have to dress up in a humourous way to make people laugh. How can you reinforce the law on that?

The Nadur Carnival started because it was in a remote village where people could poke fun at whatever they want and noone would bother them. Judging by the hordes of people that go up every year - the majority is in favour of that. This was my 7th consecutive carnival in Nadur and believe me people dressed in robes to imitate Jesus is the LEAST offending costume I've seen in a long time. But it's all part of the fun. I am a Catholic and if it offends me that much I wouldn't go every year - we should all STOP acting all self righteous as we all have done things that I'm sure we shouldn't be so proud of, no matter how devoutely Catholic you are

And Brian Fenech - how right you are!

E. Psaila

Mar 5th 2009, 16:07

This is not a questions of nanny or not nanny state. The thing is that, yes people are free but they cannot hurt other people. The Nadur carnival is disgusting, not only this year but every year. I remember a year when innocent animals where killed just for the thrill of it. It is not right to dress up as Jesus and it is not funny as it is not funny to dress up as other religious figures being from our religion or not. The sacred is sacred and should remain so, no hooligans can change this. I urge the authorities to take a stand and ban the Nadur carnival.

J Demicoli

Mar 5th 2009, 15:59

I wholeheartedly appreciate the bishops' hard work and pray to God that they would continue in their unequivocal way of reviving the values that this country was renowned for.

v.deguara

Mar 5th 2009, 15:49

@ Brian Fenech: I really hope you mispelt HOLY MARY's name....

M Grima

Mar 5th 2009, 15:21

I am offended by the Churches insistence on denying me my Civil Rights.

saviour attard

Mar 5th 2009, 15:15

I really wonder why some people speak in favour of the misdoings at the Nadur carnival. What happened there, that day, offended peoples' morals and public decency. The police that were present saw it fit to aprehend an individual masquerading as a traffic warden, and failing to book others who were offending our religious sentiments.
We support our bishops for denouncing this blatant abuse of freedom

J.Tonna

Mar 5th 2009, 15:09

If no action is taken against these offenders we will have no option but to boycott such activities in Nadur, because if they did it once and are not punished, they will do it again.

Chris Mifsud

Mar 5th 2009, 14:54

@D.MANGION

It is obvious that the church disagrees with "ridiculing Jesus Christ" . If the church did not object to these things then something would be seriously wrong .

But the point is this . It is one thing to object and disagree with something . But it is another thing trying to get the police to take criminal procceedings against a few individuals who were not harming anybody .

I think the point of Mr Chris Finch is that the church by trying to FORCE its morals and beliefs onto everyone (such as Abortion , Divorce etc..) and not moving ahead with the times is resulting in less people attending mass .

There are so many proceedures of the church such as Muzew which many people find to be pointless , annoying and a complete waste of time .

Johnny Smith

Mar 5th 2009, 14:53

@CHRIS FINCH: While I quite agree with what Edward Scerri; C. Sapiano; D. Mangion to what they wrote or stated, however, I am quite amazed by your reply as CHRIS FINCH, because in YOUR opinion a person dressed as Jesus and by exposing his Gen...tal organs infront of young children this has nothing wrong? Come on Sur Chris, what sort of person are you!! You are not Christian for sure.

Maybe for you Mr. Finch being an unbeliever, anyone who participate in the Nadur Gozo Carnival and by exposing himself as a person dressed as JESUS CHRIST did not undermined his objective by offending public decency with his dress and with his false body exposure (geni...tal organs) format resting on a cart, this is not also or to say against local public human dignity of Christian faith. If this which in your opinion is not offensive, but many agree that this surely goes against public decency when he was exposing this infront of young Children who should be protected by the Police Force, yet they done nothing. Disgrace MINISTER for GOZO.

The commissioner for Children PLEASE DO NOTE and not note ONLY, but take action now......

Albert Grech

Mar 5th 2009, 14:52

Sure go arrest people for dressing up or fooling around.

No wonder the church is becoming,as bishop grech said some time ago "a minority religion"

L..Galea

Mar 5th 2009, 14:52

Chris Mifsud, Jason Spiteri
It's not forcing its views and morals on anyone, but not insulting the religion of the majority of the Maltese people which is protected by the Constitution. Those responsible for running the country should be ashamed to allow such things to happen in breach of the constitution without taking and action against the perpetrators. Remember that a few weeks ago Palestinian demonstrators were stopped because they were insulting the USA.

Nathalie Vella
Does let loose their inhibitions mean offending religion and deities and having sex in front of all as is done by animals and as was reported in the media?

Ramon Casha Stupid comments.

Egauci

Mar 5th 2009, 14:51

i do not call or consider myself a christian. however i wonder what would have happened had the fun been taken out of another 'alla' .. last time some cartoons were drawn to this effect i believe chaos reigned and people died. i strongly believe that religion, irrespective of which should not be made fun of

Paul Borg

Mar 5th 2009, 14:48

MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING

George Caruana

Mar 5th 2009, 14:41

"ridicule the beliefs of others" is one fundamental concept of our freedoms, and what makes us superior to many other states in the eastern hemisphere of this world. Last thing our institutions (including the Church) needs are a government that gives heed to such appeals.

Mike Farrugia

Mar 5th 2009, 14:24

Rest assured that the fuss was not about a few costumes. Having these few kids dressed up as Jesus hanging huge genitalia around is absolutely disgusting. I am sure that Jesus forgives them but it is very important that whoever breaks the law, the authorities are bound to take action.
It is illegal to dress as a priest, nun or police, and that applies to all.

Johnny Smith

Mar 5th 2009, 14:12

While I quite agree with what Edward Scerri; C. Sapiano; D. Mangion stated, however, I am quite amazed by the reply of Chris Finch, because in the following churches such as those in Balluta, St. Julians, Sliema, Gzira; Ta' Xbiex; Msida; and B'Kara the amount of persons attending mass or for the adorations had increased these past months. When you stated that the time when the Church controlled the lives of the people is over." As far as I know in every society, organization or place, one has some form of rules, and these rules or regulations as a member, one has to abide by them. In the Church we have Christian principles which we have to follow.
As regarding the Nadur Carnival, those guys where very indecently dressed especially infront of Children, that is exposing Christ's Ge...tal organs in a exagerated format. Hope you don't say, that's nothing wrong, then we can also have woman undressed or in the nude? But if they had offended public morality, then the Police should have taken action, by either removing them, or report them. If they failed, they must be charged too.

Brian Fenech

Mar 5th 2009, 14:10

Further more... one last thing..... What about all the 'statues, holy stamps and images of christ and the holy Mary' should these not to be condemned because as far as I know, Jesus said that we should make no replicas and adore them, is that not mockering our Lord? Or another thing... The gold in the church and the diamonds, when Jesus was born poor in a farm and when there are thousands of people dying of hunger.... Is that not mockering our Lord? Or the lotteries to win a hamper from the church, or the collection of offers from people for the restoration of the roof or a picture... Is that not Mockering our Lord?.... Or the feasts that the country performs with hundreds of pounds for light, fire works etc, and our chaplain on top of the people's hands clapping infront of a statue... Is that not mockering our Lord??? Never ending story with church.

alister farrugia

Mar 5th 2009, 14:04

what a waste of time , does nt the church have better things to do than judging other peoples expressions?? , why is it so bad to dress up as jesus and it s ok to dress like the buddha , hindu or muslim, is that ok to make fun of ?? those who got offended should stay home during carnival that s what i do when it s good friday , or santa maria when the piazza s are full of glass,rubbish and pro christian drunks ..is that ok ??? i don t go to the piazza and complain about it .. how does the church know that those who dressed as jesus during carnival are bad people?? we should nt judge a book by it s cover, remember ?? in my opinion dressing up in a costume in carnival it s not a bad act it s worst when you judge someone without even knowing who they are , maybe they are young intelligent people that wanted to have some fun , what s wrong with having fun and being free to express yourself ?? good christians shouldforgive and not condem others that they don t understand .

Brian Fenech

Mar 5th 2009, 14:04

Law and church?? mmm..... I beleive that the church has its bylaws for the 'church goers' or 'catholics' but enforcing a statute law to the whole country, does not really make sense and should be out of question, some people might have found the act offensive, some found it hilarious... no harm done in this!

I'm catholic and I saw the funny side of it, I'm sure that Jesus who went to all that trouble to save us from sin also saw the funny side of it and they are forgiven! :) And also, may I remind the archbishop to take the plank out of his eyes before he tries to find the speck in other's eyes!

Regards,
B F

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 5th 2009, 13:59

A noisy minority is obsessed by the pursuit of uninhibited, obscene and blasphemous merriment ,with no holds barred, and without any respect for the feelings and for the religious sentiments of anybody else. This illegal and uncivil misbehaviour has been tolerated beyond the limits permissible in a country whose official religion is the Catholic faith. It is unrealistic to expect that this minority would show any respect at all for the explicit laws of the land either. It is the inalienable duty of the police to disillusion them once and for all and without the need for nudging or prompting. The bishops have the support of a silent majority and this silent majority has a right to insist on the protection of serious law enforcement. Democracy is about government by the majority with tolerance of minority rights - not vice versa. When there is any conflict the will of the majority shoud prevail. Democracy is not about the pretended and inexistent rights of a loud mouthed minority who aim to be intentionally outrageous and to inflict its vulgarity on the majority. Things have been allowed to go too far.

Maria C Sciberras

Mar 5th 2009, 13:53

If the non-believers have been offended by the Bishops' intervention and they expect believers to respect their views then they should primarily set an example by respecting those of the believers.

As for the repetitive comments on "living in 2009" - this has become our greatest excuse to hide any form of morality, decency and respect.
Can someone explain the meaning of "living in 2009"? Does it mean we can break laws, act indecently, offend others, simply because of the day and age we live in?

If we keep on at this - where will tomorrow's society be? Will our sons and daughters thank us for what we have built for them?

For everyone's sake let us keep in focus of the meaning of words such as modern, freedom, morality, etc. before we stop focusing and everything becomes hazy.

Please, these are not words for Catholics and Christians only but for all who believe they live in a CIVILISED SOCIETY!!

r ferriggi

Mar 5th 2009, 13:51

il knisja qeda fsalib it toroq, jekk trid tkun kredibli,,, billi tibda tohrog kontra KULL PARTI tal festi, karnivali, attivitjiet ((taparsi)) kulturali li fihom paganismu.

tidisassocja lilha inifisa minnhom.

li hawn malta isir karnival tip tan Nadur , u ftit jiem qabel ir Randan huwa xi haga tal misthija jew tad dahk.

IKTAR AZZJONI U KLIEM CAR anke mil l'awtoritajiet. ma nhallux ridikolagni.

Scerri S

Mar 5th 2009, 13:48

Let Carnival be Carnival. If there are laws which prohibit religious or political humour, they should be repealed, for the sake of freedom in 2009.

Chris Mifsud

Mar 5th 2009, 13:45

This is a stupid debate . In 2009 things like this shouldnt even be an issue .

The church obviously has no sense of humor and is a total killjoy who's idea of fun is some silly party at the orajorju which finishes at 10pm .

Let us move ahead with the times . While it is true that the majority of the Maltese are still church going and believe in most things the church says (And they have a right to) , There are a great many people who are not .

There are so many liberties (some that i agree with and some that i do not) that the Maltese are denied because of the church interfering with state affairs .

Most of these liberties are taken for granted in nearly all civilised countries . But of course Malta has to be different because we are holier than god .

Viva Malta

J Oatmon

Mar 5th 2009, 13:45

If these 'people' had mocked the Muslim religion - there would howls of indignation and threats and the like, and everyone would be saying we should not mock the Muslims!

I am with the bishops, it is not funny to mock any religion under any circumstances.

These 'kids' need to do some community service (preferably church related social work), to get thier priorities straight.

Giljan Agius

Mar 5th 2009, 13:36

oh great, another rant by the bishop.

in 2010 we'll just see hordes of people dressed in white robes.. and the sweet thing is that it is not illegal for someone to have long hair and a robe..

everyone is offended by something at some point of his life.. why should religion get the preferential treatment over other real, factual and viewable things?

saviour attard

Mar 5th 2009, 13:36

I really wonder why some people speak in favour of the misdoings at the Nadur carnival. What happened there, that day, offended peoples' morals and public decency. The police that were present saw it fit to aprehend an individual masquerading as a traffic warden, and not booking others who were offending our religious sentiments.
I fully support our bishops for denouncing this blatant abuse of freedom

Carmelo Palmier Cecy

Mar 5th 2009, 13:35

The image of Our Lord Jesus Christ is not carnival material; and the people who used it as such should have known that.
In our society it would not be permissible to offend any of the other major religions in such a clear way; I expect the police to make sure that my (Catholic) religious sentiments be protected in the same way through legal channels.
Many thanks to the Archbishop and the Bishop for their courageous stand.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 5th 2009, 13:34

@ Ing. S. Cremona:

"May i ask all those who are defending this behaviour what meaning they got from seeing these people parade such 'carnival costumes'".

Whoever did it, did not do it for some "meaning". He did it just for a laugh. Whether one appreciates the humour or not is another question.

"Carnival is about satire and i truly beleive that religion should not form part of it!"

Why should religion be excluded from satire?

"The Authorities should use their power to preserve the original character of the Nadur Carnival which over the years has attracted thousands to such a lovely small village".

The original character of the Nadur Carnival is its spontaneity. You're asking the authorities "preserve its character"...that would destroy the spontaneity, wouldn't it? Spontaneity cannot be preserved...it either happens or it doesn't.

Edward Caruana Galizia

Mar 5th 2009, 13:33

Oh thats nice. So the church doesn't like it when people dress up in ways that the Church finds offensive and expects the country to enforce the law to protect those who were offended, but then the church goes ahead and sells and promotes a book that can only be described as homophobic and offensive to many others.

"The bishops said it was good that society defended the rights of minorities who had different beliefs than the majority of the people"

OH really? -This is what annoys me most about the Church. They say all of this, but where was this statement on the 14th of February when a member of AD spoke out against that book which was designed to make people feel threatened by homosexuals? I would be the first to agree with Archbishop Paul Cremona and Bishop Mario Grech but I can t help but think that in doing so I'd be supporting there past disrespect towards a minority.

Dr. John Zammit

Mar 5th 2009, 13:32

What the bishop of Gozo should say is how he insulted us LIBERALS - www.freewebs.com/liberalalliance - and the condemning of divorce from the St. Paul's Church in Valletta on 10th February - shame on him! Malta is living in the 21st century now and we are members of the European Union. Are we going to continue living in the past? Do you know that we are members of the European Union and discrimination is supposed to be non existant? I appeal to all progressive people so that in the coming European Parliament Election will vote LIBERAL to show those who are living behind the Iron black curtain of the Catholic church that we cannot continue living in the past.

Jim Luvali

Mar 5th 2009, 13:26

Carnival is not originally a Christian festival. In mid February the ancient Romans celebrated the Lupercalia, a circus like festival not entirely unlike the Mardi Gras we are familiar with today. When Rome embraced Christianity, the early Church fathers decided it was better to incorporate certain aspects of pagan rituals into the new faith rather than attempt to abolish them altogether. Carnival became a period of abandon and merriment that preceded the penance of Lent, thus giving a Christian interpretation to the ancient custom.

Surely the only "offence" committed by these revellers is bad taste, and booed and heckled as such by any upset spectators. It would have been ironic indeed to see "Jesus and his Apostles" arrested by the Police on charges trumped up by leaders of the majority religion!

Also, did the "Risen Christ" have holes in his hands and feet, etc? That would have been some trick!

Brian. J. Camilleri

Mar 5th 2009, 13:24

@J Farrugia

Jesus and the Holocaust –which is creditable?
Recently the Pope said it clearly ‘Holocaust denial’ and or discussing the Holocaust is a crime’.
What the Pope says about God’s denial by atheists? The pope goes mum. So, according that Pope, I can get away to whatever connected with Jesus and this is ‘fine’, but discussing the Holocaust is a taboo!
As you can see: We have our priorities upside-down and this is happening from top to bottom.

Robert Attard

Mar 5th 2009, 13:20

The fact remains that for me someone rising from the dead is a ridiculous claim and I should have the right to express this opinion as much as someone could ridicules the idea that someone does not believe in god. I do not have a problem with that. As an atheist I will laugh at an atheist joke. Religious figures really take themselves too seriously. they can't even come to understand that some claims they make can be ridiculous to others. If we had to censor everything that had the potential to offend we would have to censor everything!!!

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 5th 2009, 13:17

@ J Farrugia:

"No wonder criminality is on the increase. It' s not the church which is at fault but the citizen who thinks he can do without Jesus Christ and without GOD".

Are you saying that all atheists and agnostics are criminals?

J. Tonna

Mar 5th 2009, 13:16

I, being one of the Catholic majority in Malta, condemn these acts against the Founder of my Religion, which is - as everybody knows - protected by our Constitution. Our Bishops are 100% right asking that action be taken against those who offend us. If the police do not take the necessary actions now, they will be offending the majority of the Maltese.

Mark Grech

Mar 5th 2009, 13:08

Johnny Smith: Are you suggetsing the exposure of the few names of kids so that the general public can then take revenge? Yet, they should not be afraid to reveal names?

I wonder who's insulting our religion most, whether its the village feast (including all the blaspheming, insults and all) and Good Friday processions or these couple of young kids/adults playing around dressed up as apostles. I think our bishops have lost their priorities badly. I think the police have other obviously higher priorities to attend to.

Oscar Cassar

Mar 5th 2009, 12:59

Thous the bishops defended the rights of minorities... for example in the case of Maltese victims of verious forms of violance that do need a divorce legislation?

Paul Zammit

Mar 5th 2009, 12:57

Once again I wish to thank the Bishops of Malta and Gozo for speaking up on the rights of both the majorities and the minorities. Minorities are to be respected, but even majorities need to be respected. God forbid the day would come when, because of the sentiments of the minorities, the majority cannot speak to defend its rights. Respect should be shown to everyone and nobody has a right to offend others, as, unfortunately, was done at Nadur during carnival and is being done by some of the bloggers during these sets of correspondence about the Bishops' statement to the police. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but nobody has a right to offend others, these being in the minority or in the majority.

D.MANGION

Mar 5th 2009, 12:50

So according to the genialoid Mr. Chris Finch, fewer people are attending church every week because the leaders of the diocese, object to the attempt of ridiculing Jesus Christ- the founder of the Christian faith.

How ridiculously shallow can a person be !

Adriano Spiteri

Mar 5th 2009, 12:49

The duo are so right in acknowledging they're after the rights of the 'minority'.

Today we have them pleading
Tomorrow we'll have a Muslim minority
Then the Jewish one
...

Minorities dictating others!!!

Dressing like Christ might be offensive to some - granted
Even ostracism of Divorce in 2009 is offending to me and most of the Maltese people!


Let's believe in freedom. If I for one don't like someone I simply ignore him and his actions.

Those who believe the bishops are right probably also believe that the Danish cartoonist was wrong for hurting the feelings of some minorities!
Let's face it: If I believed in trees would it be reasonable to consider all those who chop them as offenders?

Freedom above all

Jason Spiteri

Mar 5th 2009, 12:45

In any case, the person dressed as Jesus knew his presence there would be misunderstood by the high priests and that they'd ask the romans to jail him!

The bishop other hand can sleep sound in the knowledge that this man's identity will be betrayed to the authorities by one of his own twelve. A three-day sentence would be just poetic.

victor vella

Mar 5th 2009, 12:44

@Chris Finch.You should be ashamed of yourself calling these two gentlemen hypocrits.The church with all it's defects and misgivings is the only organisation in the world which has allways strove for humans not to kill morality, werevere this has happended then crime and other unmentionable things have ruined society.Yes the acts were unmoral and insulting to us christians.Whoever committed them needs to learn a lesson.No one dresses up as the leaders of our country or leaders of political parties in fear that they might offend someone and trouble will ensue so the simple fact that Christ will not punch you in the face for impersonating him in a degrading occasion such as carnival then it's ok to ridicule the greatest (for us christians) belief we have

Maria Grima

Mar 5th 2009, 12:44

simply pray that the people who took part in mocking jesus and all who found it funny repent and they receive the gifts of the holy spirit: FEAR, PIETY, FORTITUDE, KNOWLEDGE, COUNSIL, UNDERSTANDING, WISDOM, so they receive the fruits of him, CHARITY, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, BENIGNITY, GOODNESS, FAITH, MILDNESS, TEMPERANCE,
you might not stop evil here on earth, but deffinitly it doesn't enter heaven.

Chris Mifsud

Mar 5th 2009, 12:36

The Bishops have no business butting into this .

When are they going to learn that we are living in 2009 and not 1809 ? Personally and i am sure i speak for a great many Maltese , I am sick of the fact that the church tries to force its views and morals onto everyone .

What they find to be without taste , immoral etc... many others enjoy .

So if they dont like it , nobody is forcing them to go . When i dont like something , someone or somewhere i avoid . Thats what the church should do .

d. borg

Mar 5th 2009, 12:35

That the bishops condemned these actions, I agree, but to ask the police to find and arrest these people, well it's going a bit too far. Christian charity!

M. Costa

Mar 5th 2009, 12:35

I would like to know which values Paul Cremona is trying to protect. I think the only values which were broken are the values which exist only in the minds of hypocritical pseudo-Catholics, who have nothing better to do than to get all hot and bothered over a few drunken lads dressed as Christ. I wish Paul Cremona would take such a strong stance against pedophile priests as he did with carnival costumes. If Cremona was so offended by the Nadur Carnival, I wonder how he'd feel if he watched a few episodes of South Park. It'd probably give him a myocardial infarction.

A Grima

Mar 5th 2009, 12:29

What I find really scandalous was the fact that police officers flocked the streets, zealously dishing out fines to girls wearing nun costumes, while people were smoking away in the surrounding bars with no one stopping them! What is more offensive - wearing a veil or exposing others to passive smoke (which is know to cause cancer and cardiovascular disease)

Ing. S. Cremona

Mar 5th 2009, 12:26

May i ask all those who are defending this behaviour what meaning they got from seeing these people parade such 'carnival costumes'.

Carnival is about satire and i truly beleive that religion should not form part of it!

The Authorities should use their power to preserve the original character of the Nadur Carnival which over the years has attracted thousands to such a lovely small village.

B Sant

Mar 5th 2009, 12:26

I do not agree with the bishops that this should be a legal issue but i do expect people who wear such costumes to have a tought that they might offend the feelings of a huge number of people, and i dare these people if they got the guts to ridicule other more fundemanlists religions, perhaps they get a different treatment than a statment condemning their actions.
Having said that im sure Christ might have not used a robe to beat these people , but those who remain silent on the Nadur Cemetrey... definitley HE surley would be upset.

C.Sapiano

Mar 5th 2009, 12:25

@Chris Finch

How intelligent Mr.Finch. You forgot to say that ridiculing Christ in not only offensive to the Catholic Religion but to the sentiments of many people. We are lucky that the bishops are speaking. At least we do not have only loud mouths and pseudo-intellectuals who are mouthing stupidities in the media. There is a difference between humour and vulgarity Mr Finch, and probably you do not even care about the Catholic Church...Did you study the constitution Mr.Finch? Do you know the laws of Malta? Inform yourself before you speak please. And mind you I am not a fundamentalist - far from it - I am a moderate person with a sense of decor.

J Farrugia

Mar 5th 2009, 12:24

No wonder criminality is on the increase. It' s not the church which is at fault but the citizen who thinks he can do without Jesus Christ and without GOD. Even the media is falling into ridicule by defending a bird/dog but not a human being. Values have gone to the dogs thanks to the media and adding insult to injury they blame the church of Christ/. Like Nero did. He put the blame on the christians. persecution is raising its ugly head once more against the catholic religion.

Edward Scerri

Mar 5th 2009, 12:24

@ Chris Finch
If you go to church only on condition that the church does not have its defects, then you need not go to church because the church, like every institution made of humans, has its own defects. I personally go to church because I want to discover more, week after week, and if possible day after day, what Christ left for me in his teachings. If I encounter a priest who has his own human defects, I do not let that fact part me from the Church - which was left to us by Christ and of which we form part - I pray for him and cherish the innumerable altruistic acts of those priests who serve us every day at their own personal cost.

G. Fenech

Mar 5th 2009, 12:22

its funny how the church tries its best to hide its own mistakes and cover up or deny its shameful history, but is oh-so-ready to jump onto anyone that offends it!

As far as i know, according to your teachings.... shouldnt you just forgive and look the other way?

Yeah right.

Nathalie Vella

Mar 5th 2009, 12:21

What is happening to this island? Plays are being banned and now they want to put restrictions on Carnival - the time of the year when people are supposed to let loose all their inhibitions. Are we moving backwards of forwards here?

Also,I was at the carnival in Nadur and I saw about 6 people dressed as Jesus and around 100 dressed as Mohammeds.

Dominic Mizzi

Mar 5th 2009, 12:19

I'm all in favour for action to be taken against whoever was responsible for offending religious sentiments during the Nadur "carnival". I'm even more in favour of any action taken by the ecclesiastical authorities against the active participation of members of the clergy in fomenting parochial hatred in many towns and villages in Malta and Gozo. Case in point the Victoria Gozo St George vs Sta Maria age-old scandalous goings-on. About time Archbishop Paul Cremona and Bishop Mario Grech start by cleaning-up their own sacred confines.

Johnny Smith

Mar 5th 2009, 12:14

We are all against such carnival acts and the authorities must try to do their utmost best to try to locate who these persons where, and be either warned or charged. Unless the Police fail to do anything, then we expect the Commissioner of Police to resign from his post if his men are incapable to locate these persons.

How about exposing the names of these persons who had "dressed up as the Risen Christ while others had imitated Christ surrounded by the Apostles in an effort to make people laugh." Surely someone took photographs and most probably recognized any of these persons. Don't be afraid to mention them by name, surname or nick-names or localities where they are from?

In Spain some years ago when a group tried to do an act similar to this, the public attached them and they had to be escorted to safety by the Police, who later charged them in court. So next time this happens, get the attention of the Police, and show your disapproval.

D. Abdilla

Mar 5th 2009, 12:13

Totally agree with Mr.Paul Bonnici

Joseph M Aquilina

Mar 5th 2009, 12:13

"When no action is taken, one would not be neutral, but would be approving what would have taken place.." the Bishops say.

WHAT ABOUT THE COMPLETE SILENCE FROM THEM, FOR YEARS ON END, ABOUT THE LOURDES HOME ATROCITIES ??

Chris Finch

Mar 5th 2009, 12:12

And they wonder why fewer people are attending church each week.

The time when the church controlled the lives of the people is over. After all Jesus of Nazareth didn't need the richest organisation in the world to convey his message.

When the church and its employees starts to live thier lives according to the teachings of the Lord, including forgiveness instead of prosecution, then maybe more younger people will stop turning their backs on the hypocrisy.

ceri whitley

Mar 5th 2009, 12:12

Louise ;

What was 'wrong' 2000+ years ago cannot be the basis for codemning the same actions in todays society simply because the opposite argument falls flat on its face - namely that what was 'right' 2000+ years ago would be, in so many cases, unacceptable today.....

(Do you have any idea of the behaviour of The Church and Christians throughout the ages?)

However there is a purity to the untutored mind, (and it is delightful to behold), but I expect University will broaden your appreciation and understanding of mankind....

A Bonanno

Mar 5th 2009, 12:11

@ Edwin & Peter

Atheists criticise the use of cross or religious items in public areas so as not to offend other religions and non-believers.

I wonder now why you don't keep to your same beliefs and condemn these stupid acts which hurt people's sentiments. Or do you believe that acts which hurt the minority should not be allowed, whilst those hurting the majority are ok?

Two weights, two measures maybe?

And by the way, what the hell has these acts to do with 1960's political situation... boqq I wonder....

Ramon Casha

Mar 5th 2009, 12:11

People who do not like the kind of goings-on that Nadur Carnival is famous / infamous for should quite simply not go to the Nadur Carnival.

Carnival is an occasion in which, traditionally, people make fun of others, including well-known personalities, institutions and characters. Things that would not be normally acceptable become acceptable on that one day of the year.

Finally, I should point out that you do not have the right not to be offended.

Paul Bonnici

Mar 5th 2009, 12:09

If the carnival revelers dressed as prophet Muhammed, I am sure the police would have acted differently. Although I am agnostic I strongly believe that religions should be protected from ridicule. I fully agree with the Archbishop.

Francis X Grima

Mar 5th 2009, 12:04

We should support our spiritual leaders in their effort to say 'enough is enough'. We should all safeguard our hard-earned liberties, be they civil, religious etc but not the 'libertinagg' which is causing so much harm to us all, adults, youths and children.

A big thank you to Archbishop Cremona and Bishop Grech for their courage and example in denouncing the abuse of our liberty of expression.

We are behind you in your genuine efforts to bring us back to our senses and not be senseless individuals.

God bless all the Maltese et

Jason Spiteri

Mar 5th 2009, 12:02

The Bishops don't need the authorities - their statement has already reached the faithful with the church's moral authority to back it up. Catholic consciences have been moved.

Non-catholics' freedom on the other hand should not be challenged through the state's powers; that's not what the state is there for. Religions need to remain on the same footing before the law like everyone else, or else we're no better than the medieval theocracies which persist in more backwards parts of the world.

Alan Vella

Mar 5th 2009, 12:02

The highest powers to be in the Maltese church issue a joint statement over some people dressed up in robes during carnival. They want the police to intervene. Is this 2009? So MANY things happened and still happen on this little island that are of a worse nature, things that go far more against the teachings of Jesus. And yet the church decides to go all out against this.

And they wonder how the Church is losing its grip on the masses.

Glenn Borg

Mar 5th 2009, 12:01

Mhux ahjar jaraw min qed ibih dawn it-tip ta' kostumi l-ewwel?

Jew dawk jista jibghu jbiehu kull tip ta' kostumi li jridu? ibda min xi velu ta' soru li issib kostum komplut taghha ghal xi 20EU.

Jien m'ghandi xejn kontra il-karnival tan-Nadur, anzi jghogobni immens, pero jekk se tigi inforzata il-ligi ghandhom jibdew jaraw dawn l-affarijiet l-ewwel.

peter camilleri

Mar 5th 2009, 11:53

so when the Church ordered that Labour Supporters be burried in unconsacrated land which minority or majority was it defending? Her vile actions do not even compare with those done at the Nadur Carnival!!!.......hypocrisy at its best!!!!

Louise Grech

Mar 5th 2009, 11:49

Fully Agree with bishops Cremona and Grech. I believe that what was wrong 2000 years ago, is still wrong today and will be wrong forever.

And no, I am not a 70yr old - old fashioned woman but a 21 yr old University student

Edwin Abela

Mar 5th 2009, 11:47

Nanny state, police state, church state!... What a state the state is in!!!