Thursday, 5th March 2009 - 11:33CET
Bishops urge authorities to act on Nadur Carnival
Archbishop Paul Cremona and Gozo Bishop Mario Grech in a joint statement today again condemned the actions of some people during the Nadur Carnival and appealed to the authorities to enforce the law.
It was the second time that Mgr Grech had condemned the goings on at Nadur. In a statement last week Mgr Grech complained that some people had dressed up as the Risen Christ while others had imitated Christ surrounded by the Apostles in an effort to make people laugh.
The bishops said it was good that society defended the rights of minorities who had different beliefs than the majority of the people. But no one had a right to ridicule the beliefs of others as was done in Nadur.
The bishops said they were appealing to the authorities to not only to defend the rights of the minority, but also the majority of the people. This, they said, applied not only to the religious beliefs of most of the people of Malta and Gozo, but also to public decency.
The bishops condemned what had taken place and said those involved needed to recognise and respect the people's religious and civil rights. They pointed out that what had taken place broke the law, which safeguarded values for the common good.
"These values, upheld by the Constitution and the laws, need to be protected," the bishops said.
"When no action is taken, one would not be neutral, but would be approving what would have taken place. We are sure that was not the case."
They augured that what had happened would not be allowed to recur.
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Comments
Of course, I have also posted my own reply to it.
...also, if the police knew that the "offender" was acting illegally, why was he not arrested on the spot? The only explanation I can think of is that they were turning a blind eye, since it is carnival after all. If you have a better explanation, please enlighten us.
And yet, you evade the basic question. If a person is caught red-handed, what is there to investigate?
The answer should be obvious, but since it is obvioiusly not so to you, here goes. Police investigations are confidential and the Bishop of Gozo does not form part of the Gozo police force he would not know what was going on at the police station.
"all those of good will Now that the Commissioner of Police has officially clarified that the charges in respect of the Nadur Carnival activities were NOT commenced as a result of the statement by Archbishop Paul Cremona and Bishop Mario Grech"
Of course not...charges are only brought up in court. However, if you meant investigations, if this is so, then why did the Bishops have to urge the authorities to act.
If, as you say, the "charges" (elsewhere you said "investigations") started as soon as the "offences" were observed by the police, then was there any need for any investigations? Being caught red-handed does not require any investigation.
Even I am your age attending the uni atm, yet I still don t find anything scandalous what so ever. What I find scandalous is that I am doing my course, need the full understanding of the person in charge, who happens to be an active catholic follower..., who is making it difficult for me and my collegues to practice. S/He knows exactly the situation we students are in, and the faculty knows the situation s/he poses us to... yet it seems that no one can do anything about it.... now what about humans helping other human beings???
Also, as previously mentioned, we can mention the obscenities we heared in the past....
.... and what about refusing batism of a newborn just because s/he is outside marriage?? s/he's not a god sent as well? a baby outisde marraige was not god's child2000yrs ago....should it be like that nowadays???
However, I do believe in God, yet don t agree with some of the church's practices... I believe we should all live and treat others as we want to be treated...
"Ejjew nimmaturaw ftit u ndahqu b'mod serju"
Classic stuff Mr Busuttil.
The main point will always remain that according to official Police Reports and those of the Ministry of Justice & Home Affairs stated that photographs published in media (internet) and supplied to the authorities do demonstrated that their bad behaviour was "not simply a case of people dressing up as Christ or that of saints" but much more, so it's a matter of "a question of public indecency and offending religious sentiment, some by showing or exhibition of Jesus Phallus (penis)" - Do you approve such a things, making fun of Jesus?
We all support our Bishops, because we believe and respect God, who is in Heaven who one-day will come to Judge those who do disrespectful acts (unless repent) including myself, if I would have done such things !! In my opinion, have fun, but not with anyone connected to other religions.
Be serious. Forgiveness is for those who ask for it and who show repentance for their folly. Judging by these comments forgiveness has not been asked for. If anything some of them show a determination to continue to break the law in addition to being disrespectful towards Christ, the Catholic Church and many thousands of their fellow countrymen who pray that the criminal law and the constitution be shown the respect due in a civilised society.
How many of you protested when an employer made his employees undress to check if they were menstruating. I AM STILL WAITING FOR THE POLICE TO TAKE ACTION.
I also expect you fervent christians to complain.
Will now the church's administration tell the authorities to arrest and punish every person that doesn't go to church regulary too ? Or maybe those who doesn't own a copy of the bible ? Are we in 2009 or 1909 ?
You accused and Judged the Bishops left right¢re w/o knowing facts to what happened. According to official Police Reports and that of a spokesman from the Ministry of Justice & Home Affairs said that photographs published in the media and supplied to the authorities do demonstrated that their bad behaviour was "not simply a case of people dressing up as Christ or that of saints" but MUCH MORE--OK, so it's a matter of "a question of public indecency and offending religious sentiment by showing or exhibition of Jesus Phallus (penis)" - Do you approve?
As Catholics we support our Bishops in this, because we believe and respect God our Father who is in Heaven who one-day will Judge those who do disrespectful acts (unless repent) including me if I would have done such a thing !!
My sympathies go to Mgr Mario Grech who is trying to live out his bishopric without much fuss or ostentation but is still forced to sound like an autocrat (which he is not) buy some idiotic brats who do not know whether they're coming or going. Do us a favour, Nadurizi and Maltese holidaymakers, and grow up. At least try to. You're making nobody laugh, just creating a lot of hassle which nobody really needs. We already have "Xarabank" trying to be Malta's answer to the US' Jerry Springer Show. We don't need the Jerry Springer Road Show too.
it s a big contradiction .
catholics worship and pray to jesus . but if you happened to have long hair and a beard you might not be accepted in society that s because in this country you have to follow one religion , same thinking , if possible short hair you have to have 1 of the 2 political parties and it s ok to talk behind people s back instead of facing one another , like that jesus might not hear you and you re still safe ...
im sure that if jesus comes back he ll be very disappointed on how the church explains his teachings , he tought with common sense and not scare people with hell and sins and other things ...now that s an everyday insult to jesus ...
it s not how you want to look like , it s the intention and the act that counts .
those who have not sinned throw the firststone
I do not go to church and don't agree on certain issues with the church, however I am not a hypocrite, on this issue the church is right. Carnival or not, Nobody has the right to offend any religion. You are just using the issue to attack the church, people like you have no principles and I would add no values. Simply because you aren't capable of saying loud and clear that what happened was wrong. No justification no excuses. Instead you resort to attack the church using even what's wrong to justify your ends. Acase of Hidden Agenda!!!!!!!!!!
About the Nadur carnival leaving aside what happened with those gozitan youths, the maltese should make a favour and not ruin what was a spontaneous carnival. How is it that the maltese NEED a carnival celebration held in a small gozitan village. The reason is simple they are incapable of organizing one since they will ruin it from the start. With a population nearly 100 times as much, its incredible that our youths can't organize one and need Nadur. Lazy bunch of bones. To add insult to injury they ruin the place with their behaviour, is-soltu maltin
Will there be a popular fund set up so that people can contribute to the defence costs if this travesty ever comes to court? I would be happy to subscribe...
I would more readily refind my faith in the Church if it stood up for the animal atrocities that go on during the Nadur carnival. Those hurt God's creatures physically in no vague or unsure way!
For you the old adage, "Sin does not pay". I have just been talking with an estate agent who leases out farmhouses and flats. He was informed by one owner that THE YOUNG PEOPLE who had crossed over for carnival have declared that for next year they are not interested in coming over. The were disgusted by the behaviour of some!!!!!!!! THEY ARE STAYING AWAY. Bye Bye protection of our niche markets!!!
Tista tghidli kif, dawn id-disa irgiel li inti qas biss rajt b'ghajnejk geghluk ihossok " ridikolat, mghajjar u nsultat"?
threats nodding at fatwa retributions, since when are we starting to emulate that system to control our people? And since when is a representation of the male genital organ offensive?
A child witnessing such might of course ask some awkward questions but a mature parent can surely deal with this more than adequately. In any case it is certainly now worse than a young child being held shoulder head to get a better view at the Holy Week pageant, terrified out of its wits at all the flagellation and gore and his/her daddy trying in vain to assuage the
terror by soothingly, if none too effectively, saying: 'It is OK darling, il-Bambin iħobbok'.
FYI, no honey I was not one of them. Actually I was just an innocent bystander wearing a very tatty snow white costume and I actually wish I wore something more original. However I do not see how this is any of your business.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadur_Carnival - I urge you to go here on this very friendly and non commital site and read the short article.
And can you please explain to me how, exactly, are you so opinionated and self assured on the matter when you were not even there? Next year, please do visit I think you'll actually enjoy it if you lighten up and stop being so self righteous
kuntenti li tistmana ta' antikwati, nies bhali u bhal Louise Grech. L-aqwa li naf li dak li hu iswed nghidlu iswed u dak li hu abjad nghid li hu abjad, indipendentment int kemm tghajjarna xjuh u ta' 70 sena! Wara kollox kif jghid il-Malti,: "Kliem ix-xih zomm fih"...
u bilhaqq Univerista bhalek miniex , u 70 sena m'ghandix .... pero xorta kapaci nidjaloga bhalek... mhux int biss intelligenti, avolja izghar minnek fiz-zmien. pero ma noqghodx nilghabha tal-gharef.
Imbghad jghidu li min ma jemminx u mhux kattoliku huwa diskriminat!!!! Iktar nahseb bil-maqlub, ghax illum li jkollok valur nsara ifisser li tkun ridikolat, mghajjar u nsultat.
Well done to the Times for these blogs - when we only used to read the printed pro-church letters one would think we lived in a Bishop's fifedom, with the entire population behind him. Obviously this was far from reality.
therefore who ever said that people will stop going to mass since the these actions were punished - its not true ! we are all free to choose in life ! and this is what is so nice about our religion - God leaves us free to choose to be bad or good.
Some people really need to grow up !
You don;t have to be a religious person or one who attends church to condem such obscene costumes - and it is not a matter of age neither .... The matter is that there are limits to things and sometimes ceratin people like to go overboard these limits to shock people or to attract attention ! Nowadays certain (not to generalise) youngsters have it all and since they have it all, they are bored and try to attract attention inventing new things. This is what they wanted - all the attention from the Church and the people who got shocked by what they did - this is exactly what they wanted. However in my opinion this shows a sign of immaturity and bad taste. Coz of a few stupid people such an occasion like carnival got ruined !
.. and by the way God leaves us free always therefore we are free not to go to mass if we want - it is your impression that the Church forces us to go to church - priests who represent God try to guide us but then people are free.
it is very convenient for you to remind us of Jesus's behaviour with sinners. But it is also good to remember the occassion when Jesus entering the temple and seeing the way it was being profaned by sellers got very angry and he said, "My house is to be called a house of prayer,' but you are turning it into a hideout for bandits!" Well it seems that a small minority wants to turn our streets into an obsecene, decadent cesspit.
Some of the bloggers are openly declaring that they have removed Jesus from the lives. Well it also seems that they have enthroned King Carnival and they are now paying their allegiance to him. Good Luck to them.
& Dr. F. Saliba
thanks for your strong coherent arguments. Keep it up
...in order to "move ahead with the times" you need to be sure that you are moving forward !
Can we all be sure that our society is moving at any direction whatsoever ?
I'll leave that up to your maturity to decide....I have my own opinion about that...but that is MY opinion, and it doesn't necessarily apply to all.
However let me quote John Lennon...who was not a Church man for sure ! About 40 years ago he wrote and sang...
"How can I go forward when I don't know which way I'm facing ?"
I don't find the act of dressing up as Jesus Christ or Mohammed(even in carnival time) as a sign of "moving ahead with times ".
But then again this is MY opinion.
Apparently for some people Ridicule is more sacred than Religion . As for the future, we'll reap what we sow.
This is nothing but fundamentalism. LIVE AND LET LIVE. I personally do not care about Jesus Christ or the Church and feel I should have the freedom to express my thoughts...even send up Christianity in any way I deem fit. To be fair I do not even care for Carnival but I'll be the first to grow locks and don a white robe should any of this nonsense be followed up by the authorities.
Yes. Read the reports about it in last Sunday's newspapers and see the photos. There were also letters to the same effect. Hope you are not denying it because you were one of them.
And is turning Nadur streets into a public convenience acts of the human species or of animals?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7926694.stm
Shame on the church for excommunicating those who wanted to save the life of a little girl who has already seen so much horror in her short life.
Also I dont recall the Bishops urging the authorities to act when a young girl was gang raped on Gozo. Instead we had a priest urging the parents to drop the case. And that report didnt see nearly as many people commenting.
No one has the right to seriously offend our morals with the excuse of celebrating Carnival.
Well said!
I think Franco Farrugia has nothing constructive to say and therefore simply mocks you and the university.
I wonder what his age is? If he thinks you sound 70, then I think he has some serious growing up to do!
What is so sad here is the nastiness and scorn and general sarcasm of those commenters who are simply anti the church which is doing its best to defend what little in this world still gets any respect!
Surely all you politically correct people out there should in fact be supporting the church!
many developed countries have established the need to separate church and state - I think it is time that this subject is addressed by the authorities - there should not be discrimination or special protection of any religion or believe! (if there really is a law favouring/protecting the roman catholic religion)
I challenge the by-the-book catholics and church, to accept such a transition without any resistance.. if you strongly believe in your (pagan/roman)rituals and god.. I would assume that you would not feel threatened by equality
"there probably is no god..stop worrying and enjoy your life"
I't like prohibiting beef and pork at a BBQ...
This is not about inulting some religion...this is about a handful of people controlling the societies and the human existence.
I never was at Nadur, but even hearing about it made me chuckle, have you people heard of satire, that ridicules politics, and since the church has a political upholding in this little sorry country,it's pretty much satire as well.
As for you commentors who are bragging about the immorality of the actions (in maltese:tilghaqu...), it's CARNIVAL at NADUR!!! GET OVER IT! Monthy Python ridicules faith, and so does Hystory of the world part one, they're some of the best comedies ever! Hypocrates, all of you.
Weren't you a student a couple of years ago at the university?
@ A. Tabone - There were a lot of people dressed as Mohammed's
@ Johnny Smith - A grainy 3 second video on YOUTUBE you watched does not mean you can tell us what we saw with our own eyes. Those people were dressed as caveman not Jesus. Will you please STOP planting false ideas into people's heads.
Fully Agree with bishops Cremona and Grech. I believe that what was wrong 2000 years ago, is still wrong today and will be wrong forever.
And no, I am not a 70yr old - old fashioned woman but a 21 yr old University student.'
1. Well, It's good that you gave us your age: you certainly DO sound like a 70-yr old.
2. University student, you say? Oh well, we all know how the University is failing in certain respects.
I wish you well.
For your information at first they had the figure of a large "genetal organ" on a cart. So they where not just dressed decently (see my previous note) but very indecent.
jin kont wiehed min dawn it 8, li qed issemi int , ahna ma konniex libsin ta gesu !! u l appostli li qed tejd !! li libsu ta gesu ma kellomx xjaqsmu mana , ahna ta cave men konna libsin , tiga ktibtlek qabel , u maghna kenna 2 mizbuwajn suwed , ma nahsibx li kin emm apostli suwed sa fejn naf jin
As C Galea explained, those with costumes with huge genitals were not dressed as Jesus, but as cavemen. Also, as C Galea also said, they were there after 23.00 hrs.
Yes, the commissioner for children should take note that it is irresponsible for parents to take children to Nadur Carnival at 23.00 hrs, particularly because the huge crowds and the revelry make it dangerous for them.
Didn't christ pick up tax collectors, whores, etc etc on his way? While your Christ forgives the man who speared him, you look to the ground, looking for the nearest stone and the nearest victim.
In my humble opinion these persons where trying to commence not only a revolution against the church, but make Christ part of the laughing stock of their act. Do you agree with this sort of attitude?.
Part 2 of 2
‘The gold in the church and the diamonds…’. I invite you to reflect on this passage :
John 12: 3-8
3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.
4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, which should betray him,
5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? (.. this seems yery similar to your comment dear Brian !! but read on, Jesus will answer you directly ! )
6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a athief, and had the bbag, and bare what was put therein.
7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: aagainst the day of my burying hath bshe kept this.
8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.
(ref: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/john/12/3#3)
Part 1 of 2
You said that ‘Jesus said that we should make no replicas ..’. That is written in the old testament so it cannot be that Jesus said that. That passage is wrongly interpreted by most people. That order was given because in those days they used to make a statue and adore that statue, i.e. that statue became god itself !
Imbghad tkellmu...
Jew hekk nistghu inweggghu lin-nies. Allura ta' Kristu, le?
Nistennew u naraw.........
it s called freedom of expression , have they abused or harmed anyone physically ? have they affected anyone s life in anyway ? no ! why should authorities have the right to act because people get insulted .. i ve been insulted many times however i did nt feel the need to complain to authorities about it .
just get on with it ...
peace .....
This is not about the teaching of the Church. It is not about what Jesus is wrongly quoted as saying or about the crass and unbelievable assetion that He would be amused by the obscene goings on at the Nadur Carnival. It is not about the pretence of a small vociferous minority that is unable to enjoy carnival without giving offence.
It is about the criminal law of the land. As long as it is the law of the land, no one has the right to place himself above it or to expect that the police should look the other way. It would be a gross dereliction of duty on the part of the police to allow the law to be flouted in their presence and for no better reason than that of allowing a shameless blasphemous minority to act disrespectfully and offensively towards the religious sentiments of others.
Having sex in front of all? Are you serious? Stop blowing this out of proportion as most people are doing. As I suggested to someone else - next year go to Nadur and see what we are talking about instead of just stating what you 'heard' from a friend of a friend and judge for yourself. I was there and NOONE was having sex in public. Come on PEOPLE! Get your facts right
Those people were not dressed up as Jesus. Do your homework. Instead of sitting in front of your computer watching videos on YOUTUBE and assuming things why not go up to Nadur next year. Who knows - you might even have some fun!
Freedom in one's life does not give him/her the right to offend the beliefs of others, even if it is carnival time.
These people should realise that their behaviour was not appropriate, and should learn to live in today's civilised society. A quick glance at the Gospels should give such people a good example of how to live their lives whilst respecting that of others.
The Nadur Carnival started because it was in a remote village where people could poke fun at whatever they want and noone would bother them. Judging by the hordes of people that go up every year - the majority is in favour of that. This was my 7th consecutive carnival in Nadur and believe me people dressed in robes to imitate Jesus is the LEAST offending costume I've seen in a long time. But it's all part of the fun. I am a Catholic and if it offends me that much I wouldn't go every year - we should all STOP acting all self righteous as we all have done things that I'm sure we shouldn't be so proud of, no matter how devoutely Catholic you are
And Brian Fenech - how right you are!
We support our bishops for denouncing this blatant abuse of freedom
It is obvious that the church disagrees with "ridiculing Jesus Christ" . If the church did not object to these things then something would be seriously wrong .
But the point is this . It is one thing to object and disagree with something . But it is another thing trying to get the police to take criminal procceedings against a few individuals who were not harming anybody .
I think the point of Mr Chris Finch is that the church by trying to FORCE its morals and beliefs onto everyone (such as Abortion , Divorce etc..) and not moving ahead with the times is resulting in less people attending mass .
There are so many proceedures of the church such as Muzew which many people find to be pointless , annoying and a complete waste of time .
Maybe for you Mr. Finch being an unbeliever, anyone who participate in the Nadur Gozo Carnival and by exposing himself as a person dressed as JESUS CHRIST did not undermined his objective by offending public decency with his dress and with his false body exposure (geni...tal organs) format resting on a cart, this is not also or to say against local public human dignity of Christian faith. If this which in your opinion is not offensive, but many agree that this surely goes against public decency when he was exposing this infront of young Children who should be protected by the Police Force, yet they done nothing. Disgrace MINISTER for GOZO.
The commissioner for Children PLEASE DO NOTE and not note ONLY, but take action now......
No wonder the church is becoming,as bishop grech said some time ago "a minority religion"
It's not forcing its views and morals on anyone, but not insulting the religion of the majority of the Maltese people which is protected by the Constitution. Those responsible for running the country should be ashamed to allow such things to happen in breach of the constitution without taking and action against the perpetrators. Remember that a few weeks ago Palestinian demonstrators were stopped because they were insulting the USA.
Nathalie Vella
Does let loose their inhibitions mean offending religion and deities and having sex in front of all as is done by animals and as was reported in the media?
Ramon Casha Stupid comments.
It is illegal to dress as a priest, nun or police, and that applies to all.
As regarding the Nadur Carnival, those guys where very indecently dressed especially infront of Children, that is exposing Christ's Ge...tal organs in a exagerated format. Hope you don't say, that's nothing wrong, then we can also have woman undressed or in the nude? But if they had offended public morality, then the Police should have taken action, by either removing them, or report them. If they failed, they must be charged too.
I'm catholic and I saw the funny side of it, I'm sure that Jesus who went to all that trouble to save us from sin also saw the funny side of it and they are forgiven! :) And also, may I remind the archbishop to take the plank out of his eyes before he tries to find the speck in other's eyes!
Regards,
B F
A noisy minority is obsessed by the pursuit of uninhibited, obscene and blasphemous merriment ,with no holds barred, and without any respect for the feelings and for the religious sentiments of anybody else. This illegal and uncivil misbehaviour has been tolerated beyond the limits permissible in a country whose official religion is the Catholic faith. It is unrealistic to expect that this minority would show any respect at all for the explicit laws of the land either. It is the inalienable duty of the police to disillusion them once and for all and without the need for nudging or prompting. The bishops have the support of a silent majority and this silent majority has a right to insist on the protection of serious law enforcement. Democracy is about government by the majority with tolerance of minority rights - not vice versa. When there is any conflict the will of the majority shoud prevail. Democracy is not about the pretended and inexistent rights of a loud mouthed minority who aim to be intentionally outrageous and to inflict its vulgarity on the majority. Things have been allowed to go too far.
As for the repetitive comments on "living in 2009" - this has become our greatest excuse to hide any form of morality, decency and respect.
Can someone explain the meaning of "living in 2009"? Does it mean we can break laws, act indecently, offend others, simply because of the day and age we live in?
If we keep on at this - where will tomorrow's society be? Will our sons and daughters thank us for what we have built for them?
For everyone's sake let us keep in focus of the meaning of words such as modern, freedom, morality, etc. before we stop focusing and everything becomes hazy.
Please, these are not words for Catholics and Christians only but for all who believe they live in a CIVILISED SOCIETY!!
tidisassocja lilha inifisa minnhom.
li hawn malta isir karnival tip tan Nadur , u ftit jiem qabel ir Randan huwa xi haga tal misthija jew tad dahk.
IKTAR AZZJONI U KLIEM CAR anke mil l'awtoritajiet. ma nhallux ridikolagni.
The church obviously has no sense of humor and is a total killjoy who's idea of fun is some silly party at the orajorju which finishes at 10pm .
Let us move ahead with the times . While it is true that the majority of the Maltese are still church going and believe in most things the church says (And they have a right to) , There are a great many people who are not .
There are so many liberties (some that i agree with and some that i do not) that the Maltese are denied because of the church interfering with state affairs .
Most of these liberties are taken for granted in nearly all civilised countries . But of course Malta has to be different because we are holier than god .
Viva Malta
I am with the bishops, it is not funny to mock any religion under any circumstances.
These 'kids' need to do some community service (preferably church related social work), to get thier priorities straight.
in 2010 we'll just see hordes of people dressed in white robes.. and the sweet thing is that it is not illegal for someone to have long hair and a robe..
everyone is offended by something at some point of his life.. why should religion get the preferential treatment over other real, factual and viewable things?
I fully support our bishops for denouncing this blatant abuse of freedom
In our society it would not be permissible to offend any of the other major religions in such a clear way; I expect the police to make sure that my (Catholic) religious sentiments be protected in the same way through legal channels.
Many thanks to the Archbishop and the Bishop for their courageous stand.
"May i ask all those who are defending this behaviour what meaning they got from seeing these people parade such 'carnival costumes'".
Whoever did it, did not do it for some "meaning". He did it just for a laugh. Whether one appreciates the humour or not is another question.
"Carnival is about satire and i truly beleive that religion should not form part of it!"
Why should religion be excluded from satire?
"The Authorities should use their power to preserve the original character of the Nadur Carnival which over the years has attracted thousands to such a lovely small village".
The original character of the Nadur Carnival is its spontaneity. You're asking the authorities "preserve its character"...that would destroy the spontaneity, wouldn't it? Spontaneity cannot be preserved...it either happens or it doesn't.
"The bishops said it was good that society defended the rights of minorities who had different beliefs than the majority of the people"
OH really? -This is what annoys me most about the Church. They say all of this, but where was this statement on the 14th of February when a member of AD spoke out against that book which was designed to make people feel threatened by homosexuals? I would be the first to agree with Archbishop Paul Cremona and Bishop Mario Grech but I can t help but think that in doing so I'd be supporting there past disrespect towards a minority.
Surely the only "offence" committed by these revellers is bad taste, and booed and heckled as such by any upset spectators. It would have been ironic indeed to see "Jesus and his Apostles" arrested by the Police on charges trumped up by leaders of the majority religion!
Also, did the "Risen Christ" have holes in his hands and feet, etc? That would have been some trick!
@J Farrugia
Jesus and the Holocaust –which is creditable?
Recently the Pope said it clearly ‘Holocaust denial’ and or discussing the Holocaust is a crime’.
What the Pope says about God’s denial by atheists? The pope goes mum. So, according that Pope, I can get away to whatever connected with Jesus and this is ‘fine’, but discussing the Holocaust is a taboo!
As you can see: We have our priorities upside-down and this is happening from top to bottom.
"No wonder criminality is on the increase. It' s not the church which is at fault but the citizen who thinks he can do without Jesus Christ and without GOD".
Are you saying that all atheists and agnostics are criminals?
I wonder who's insulting our religion most, whether its the village feast (including all the blaspheming, insults and all) and Good Friday processions or these couple of young kids/adults playing around dressed up as apostles. I think our bishops have lost their priorities badly. I think the police have other obviously higher priorities to attend to.
How ridiculously shallow can a person be !
Today we have them pleading
Tomorrow we'll have a Muslim minority
Then the Jewish one
...
Minorities dictating others!!!
Dressing like Christ might be offensive to some - granted
Even ostracism of Divorce in 2009 is offending to me and most of the Maltese people!
Let's believe in freedom. If I for one don't like someone I simply ignore him and his actions.
Those who believe the bishops are right probably also believe that the Danish cartoonist was wrong for hurting the feelings of some minorities!
Let's face it: If I believed in trees would it be reasonable to consider all those who chop them as offenders?
Freedom above all
The bishop other hand can sleep sound in the knowledge that this man's identity will be betrayed to the authorities by one of his own twelve. A three-day sentence would be just poetic.
you might not stop evil here on earth, but deffinitly it doesn't enter heaven.
When are they going to learn that we are living in 2009 and not 1809 ? Personally and i am sure i speak for a great many Maltese , I am sick of the fact that the church tries to force its views and morals onto everyone .
What they find to be without taste , immoral etc... many others enjoy .
So if they dont like it , nobody is forcing them to go . When i dont like something , someone or somewhere i avoid . Thats what the church should do .
Carnival is about satire and i truly beleive that religion should not form part of it!
The Authorities should use their power to preserve the original character of the Nadur Carnival which over the years has attracted thousands to such a lovely small village.
Having said that im sure Christ might have not used a robe to beat these people , but those who remain silent on the Nadur Cemetrey... definitley HE surley would be upset.
How intelligent Mr.Finch. You forgot to say that ridiculing Christ in not only offensive to the Catholic Religion but to the sentiments of many people. We are lucky that the bishops are speaking. At least we do not have only loud mouths and pseudo-intellectuals who are mouthing stupidities in the media. There is a difference between humour and vulgarity Mr Finch, and probably you do not even care about the Catholic Church...Did you study the constitution Mr.Finch? Do you know the laws of Malta? Inform yourself before you speak please. And mind you I am not a fundamentalist - far from it - I am a moderate person with a sense of decor.
If you go to church only on condition that the church does not have its defects, then you need not go to church because the church, like every institution made of humans, has its own defects. I personally go to church because I want to discover more, week after week, and if possible day after day, what Christ left for me in his teachings. If I encounter a priest who has his own human defects, I do not let that fact part me from the Church - which was left to us by Christ and of which we form part - I pray for him and cherish the innumerable altruistic acts of those priests who serve us every day at their own personal cost.
As far as i know, according to your teachings.... shouldnt you just forgive and look the other way?
Yeah right.
Also,I was at the carnival in Nadur and I saw about 6 people dressed as Jesus and around 100 dressed as Mohammeds.
How about exposing the names of these persons who had "dressed up as the Risen Christ while others had imitated Christ surrounded by the Apostles in an effort to make people laugh." Surely someone took photographs and most probably recognized any of these persons. Don't be afraid to mention them by name, surname or nick-names or localities where they are from?
In Spain some years ago when a group tried to do an act similar to this, the public attached them and they had to be escorted to safety by the Police, who later charged them in court. So next time this happens, get the attention of the Police, and show your disapproval.
WHAT ABOUT THE COMPLETE SILENCE FROM THEM, FOR YEARS ON END, ABOUT THE LOURDES HOME ATROCITIES ??
The time when the church controlled the lives of the people is over. After all Jesus of Nazareth didn't need the richest organisation in the world to convey his message.
When the church and its employees starts to live thier lives according to the teachings of the Lord, including forgiveness instead of prosecution, then maybe more younger people will stop turning their backs on the hypocrisy.
What was 'wrong' 2000+ years ago cannot be the basis for codemning the same actions in todays society simply because the opposite argument falls flat on its face - namely that what was 'right' 2000+ years ago would be, in so many cases, unacceptable today.....
(Do you have any idea of the behaviour of The Church and Christians throughout the ages?)
However there is a purity to the untutored mind, (and it is delightful to behold), but I expect University will broaden your appreciation and understanding of mankind....
Atheists criticise the use of cross or religious items in public areas so as not to offend other religions and non-believers.
I wonder now why you don't keep to your same beliefs and condemn these stupid acts which hurt people's sentiments. Or do you believe that acts which hurt the minority should not be allowed, whilst those hurting the majority are ok?
Two weights, two measures maybe?
And by the way, what the hell has these acts to do with 1960's political situation... boqq I wonder....
Carnival is an occasion in which, traditionally, people make fun of others, including well-known personalities, institutions and characters. Things that would not be normally acceptable become acceptable on that one day of the year.
Finally, I should point out that you do not have the right not to be offended.
A big thank you to Archbishop Cremona and Bishop Grech for their courage and example in denouncing the abuse of our liberty of expression.
We are behind you in your genuine efforts to bring us back to our senses and not be senseless individuals.
God bless all the Maltese et
Non-catholics' freedom on the other hand should not be challenged through the state's powers; that's not what the state is there for. Religions need to remain on the same footing before the law like everyone else, or else we're no better than the medieval theocracies which persist in more backwards parts of the world.
And they wonder how the Church is losing its grip on the masses.
Jew dawk jista jibghu jbiehu kull tip ta' kostumi li jridu? ibda min xi velu ta' soru li issib kostum komplut taghha ghal xi 20EU.
Jien m'ghandi xejn kontra il-karnival tan-Nadur, anzi jghogobni immens, pero jekk se tigi inforzata il-ligi ghandhom jibdew jaraw dawn l-affarijiet l-ewwel.
Fully Agree with bishops Cremona and Grech. I believe that what was wrong 2000 years ago, is still wrong today and will be wrong forever.
And no, I am not a 70yr old - old fashioned woman but a 21 yr old University student