• email article
  • print article
  • small text sizemedium text sizelarge text size
  • comment on this article

Assisted reproduction

'The US has more frozen embryos than living people'

'State must stop dragging its feet'

The state must stop dragging its feet on the issue of assisted reproduction, as it had been doing for too long, the House Social Affairs Committee was told on Monday.

In a discussion with the theme Assisted Procreation - Morality and Law, Rev. Prof. Emmanuel Agius, the dean of the Faculty of Theology and lecturer of philosophical ethics and moral theology at the University of Malta, and a member of the European Group of Ethics, declared that it should be "an honour" to be accused of not going along with all modern reproductive technologies.

Since as yet it had no law on the protection of the embryo, Malta should immediately ratify the Council of Europe's Oviedo Declaration because that made it clear that the human embryo should never be used for the whims of science. The Church opted to give maximum protection to human life.

Rev. Prof. Agius was making the presentation to update the House Social Affairs Committee on the Church's document on human dignity last December to follow up on the instruction Donum Vitae of 1987, with special regard to new threats to human life.

Before the meeting adjourned, committee chairman Edwin Vassallo asked him to eventually revert to the committee with a comparison between the recommendations made by the previous committee, chaired by Clyde Puli, and the Church's latest pronunciation.

Rev. Prof. Agius said the previous committee had made some positive recommendations and suggestions, even though various members had had diverging thoughts on a number of aspects.

Opposition spokesman on social security Michael Farrugia suggested that the committee avail itself of something that was written and take it from there. On cohabitation, the particular problem in Malta was that there was no divorce that allowed one to take a second opportunity in marriage. This essentially led to people who would like to remarry but had to make do with semi-marriage. The country needed direction as soon as possible.

After almost three years, the House still had only a set of recommendations, not enough to go on. He suggested that Rev. Prof. Agius should be allowed to go back over the previous committee's recommendations and revert thereon. The committee should then have time to discuss the situation internally and make its updated recommendations. If Rev. Prof. Agius found he could agree with the previous committee's recommendations, or part of them, that could be considered as real progress.

Nationalist MP Michael Gonzi was under the impression that a member of the Church had said that it was permissible to freeze an embryo. Rev. Prof. Agius categorically said this was a mistake.

Dr Gonzi said the usage of multiple embryos was done also as a measure of protection to the woman who would have gone through IVF, which in itself presented limited guarantees of success. He too did not accept the killing off of an embryo, but what about letting it die?

Rev. Prof. Agius said the mother's health was always an important consideration. Even if the minimum number of embryos was used to prevent the mother's hyper-stimulation, this had still resulted in a large number of embryos not being utilised. Man's primary intention in IVF was to kill the embryos that remained unutilised, and this could never be acceptable. Human life was a fundamental right in any religion.

Dr Farrugia observed that this would be the legislator's major dilemma.

Rev. Prof. Agius said Malta seemed to have lost all sense of direction in the discussion of the issue. At least it should use standard terminology.

On cohabitation, Dr Gonzi asked Rev. Prof. Agius if he thought that some form of legislation on cohabiting couples would lead to less break-ups of such relationships. This would also regulate the offspring of those relationships. Rev. Prof. Agius countered that the law already considered such offspring as not illegitimate. The law would not recognise the relationship, but at least it would ensure that each partner would be given the due amount of dignity.

Earlier, Rev. Prof. Agius had said that the Church's position held good not only for the Catholic politician but also for non-Catholics. The Church could not remain neutral in the face of such speedy developments in bioethics and reproductive technology, also bearing in mind its long history of involvement therein.

The Church's teaching was that every discovery by man throughout history had been ambivalent, potentially doing as much harm as good. Unfortunately people spoke more emotionally than scientifically. Modern concepts of reproductive technology included in vitro fertilisation, babies with several parents, and babies that were cloned using part human and part animal elements. All these raised important questions, not just by the Church as an important stakeholder but also by other quarters.

Questions were raised about the meaning of marriage and the family, homosexual and heterosexual couples, and the link between love and procreation. Science never brought these questions up because its remit was not religious. Its overall interest was a utilitarian philosophy of how many people could be made happy.

About 15 per cent of married couples encountered fertility problems, which could be caused by any one of a myriad of physical or psychological circumstances. Marriage was a communicative relationship and had its own importance, even when not blessed with children. Most infertile couples were ready to explore what modern medicine could offer to help their situation. But were modern methods of conception conducive to the right attitude to such technologies?

One of the Church's four major principles was a couple's right to full information about alternatives, rates of success, financial and other kinds of stress. The Church believed that certain methods of assisted procreation were taking the place of intercourse, reducing the dignity of the married couple.

The second major principle was respect for the dignity and integrity of human life from the very start. At no stage should an embryo be seen as a piece of material for scientific research on the pretext that it was "surplus to needs". Embryos should not be frozen, but the fact that there were now thousands of them was causing a problem in itself. In the US it was said that there were more frozen embryos than living people.

If Malta ever had a law on assisted reproduction, it should copy the UK law which said that there should not be more than two embryos used in each fertilisation. Reproductive cloning was bad, but therapeutic cloning was favourably looked on. Time would tell that this was the right way to go.

Rev. Prof. Agius said it was heartening to note that both sides of the political spectrum agreed on the dignity of human life. Any future law must include the protection and respect of human life, and must protect the family structure. There were too many risks in modern reproductive technology to leave it up to conscience.

The Church's third major principle was safeguarding the family and marriage. Every baby must be born in wedlock in the better interests of the family, which everybody said they wanted to protect. Reproductive facilities should not be encouraged for non-married people, although cohabiting couples posed a problem. Such a decision was up to the state to take.

British statistics showed that only eight per cent of married couples had problems by the time the child was five years old, whereas among cohabiting couples it was 52 per cent. The Church could never look on cohabitation as marriage, but at least the couple's civil rights and duties should be regulated through a legal structure. If a cohabiting partner was infertile, the Church felt that he or she should still not be given assisted reproduction facilities.

The fourth major principle was safeguarding the unborn baby's right to dignity in a suitable environment where to develop its values. Even 20 years ago the Church was against IVF, even for a married couple.

  • Google Bookmarks Del.icio.us Facebook Blogger YahooMyWeb Digg Reddit Stumbleupon
  • email article
  • print article
  • small text sizemedium text sizelarge text size
  • comment on this article

Comments

Joe Zammit (on 12/3/09)
The origin of human life has its authentic context in marriage and in the family, where it is generated through an act which expresses the reciprocal love between a man and a woman. Procreation which is truly responsible vis-à-vis the child to be born “must be the fruit of marriage”.

Gerry Cowie (on 11/3/09)
@ William P Flynn

So we are agreed. Everybody has a right to their opinion, whatever part of the world they are living in! Not sure why you are not living in Malta, but you do not have a monopoly on what is said, and you are really desperate to try to stop anything happening in Malta which does not suit you! What exactly is your agenda?

My agenda is clear - the value of human life from conception to natural death anywhere in the world. I understand that Malta is part of the world - a part of the world in which I spend much time! We are also in Europe, and Malta and the UK are members.

You are free to comment on any issue you wish in any country as indeed you regularly do, despite not being a resident of any other countries!

It is the evils of secularism which I stand against.

Your sarcasm always lets you down! You seem to speak very angrily.

Again, I quote you saying in these columns that I should be "shut up"! Hardly democratic and even totally against your own secularist agenda!

You can't have it both ways, Mr Flynn!
William P Flynn (on 11/3/09)
GerryCowie, When/how did I stop you? I said it's none of your business;that isn't stopping you. And how can I stop you? I live at the other end of the Earth and I don't own/run The Times.

Like all your arguments, your addressing me as William P Flynn, Australian is incorrect. I am Maltese/Australian with dual nationalities. Are you British Maltese? A blog I saw indicated that you are a British national living in Surrey. Since it was by you, should I believe it or was that one of your inaccuracies as well? So, you will never, can never have equal claim to Malta.

Like your pope you are happy to knock secularism but it is thanks to secularism that you are both able to do so without getting imprisoned by a religious regime. So it is you who wants it both ways not I.

Moreover,you want to use secularism to control my rights and my life according to your catholic mumbo-jumbo. Get this:IT WON'T WORK!"
Gerry Cowie (on 10/3/09)
@ William P Flynn, Australian.

You have no right to stop anybody having an opinion. You do nothing to assist your argument by using sarcasm and shouting the odds that nobody should have a say. You are a resident of Australia, and I of the UK.

You have no knowledge of me other than that which I may give or you may assume - which is generally what you tend to do.

I will fight you and others like you all the way when I do not agree with your views, just as I expect you to do the same with me.

You will not shut people up who oppose secularist views, and as is public knowledge from these very blogs, you have called for me to be "shut up" which is hardly democratic, or indeed in line with secularist views which are all for freedom of speech!

You cannot have it both ways, Mr Flynn.

Since Malta has a high volume of Catholic believers, again you cannot continue to deny the fact that religious beliefs will play a part in local issues.

You also cannot deny that it is NOT only those with religious beliefs who might oppose you.
William P Flynn (Australia) (on 9/3/09)
I'm not going to go over old ground again. I explained the differences between a Maltese foreigner and a citizen. If you're going to forget things after a day no wonder you never say anything new. Embarrassing.

Hundreds of thousands of Maltese live abroad. I have included Australia in my name. Will you include England in yours?

What happens in Malta is not your concern. You can express your opinion, of course, but it doesn't count. You can defend your religion as well and observe religious rules,your beliefs and customs.
But you, your religion (or any other for that matter), your pope, cardinals and bishops have absolutely no right to interfere with the due processes of secular laws of Malta and the secular rights and freedoms of Maltese or any other citizens for that matter. The EU has made this clear to the pope.

We know what the catholic president of Brazil thinks about the case of the 9 year old girl. I see you have opted out of commenting/defending the excommunications.
I'm signing off now unless you have a new thought.
Gerry Cowie (on 9/3/09)
@ William P FLynn - there you go again throwing your weight around and pronouncing on things again! Since you live in AUSTRALIA, what gives you the authority to tell me I may not speak about Malta, in which I spend much time? I notice that you consistently ignore references to where you actually live! If you spent time in Malta with the Maltese you might speak differently. I have as much right as you to comment. But you have even publicly called for me to be "shut up" in these very columns! Again you knock your own character with no help from anybody else! You vehemently oppose religion and ignore the good things which it has brought, including laws making things such as murder illegal! Seeing as you pontificate about the Catholic church, you will know about infallibility and when it applies and does not apply. You carefully quote extreme and obscure cases in order to try to bolster your "argument". God will not be pushed out of Malta or anywhere else for that matter and the Church and others will continue to uphold the value of human life from conception to natural death in the face of secularism!
William P Flynn (on 8/3/09)
An example of catholic church infallibility at its best:

In Pernambuco, Brazil, a 9 year old girl, admitted to hospital with severe stomach pains, was found to be pregnant with twins. It transpired she had been repeatedly raped by her stepfather since she was 6.
The catholic doctors decided the child's life was in danger and aborted this heinous pregnancy. The doctor and the mother(she authorized the abortion)were excommunicated; but not the offending monster of a step-father.

The regional archbishop, Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, pronounced the excommunication. His decision was supported by the Vatican.

President Luiz Ignacio Lula da Silva hit out at Sobrinho's decision, saying: "As a Christian and a catholic, I deeply regret that a bishop of the catholic church has such a conservative attitude."
The doctor declared he will still attend church in defiance of the excommunication.

There's a lesson of how catholic politicians and citizens can stand up to the archaic and unacceptable beliefs of the catholic church.
Joe Zammit (on 8/3/09)
We have to be guided not by what is done abroad but by God's law as taught to us by his one Christian Catholic Church. God is to be honoured privately and publicly, never and nowhere despised. God's law must be respected and obeyed always and everywhere. God's law does not admit of exceptions. That's why we have many martyrs. That's why the Catholic Church never changes her infallible teaching. The process of begetting offspring falls also under God's law. We must always remember that the end does not justify the means, so always morally good means for a morally good end.
Joe Zammit (on 8/3/09)
That is the poverty of secularism: it divests man of his most important thing in life, namely living faith in God. We have been created by God as body and soul. Through our immortal soul we think, we want. Intelligence and Will are qualities of our souls. If we don't arrive at believing and loving God privately and publicly, our intelligence and will are still underdeveloped, subject to passions. Through living faith expressed in the virtues of hope and love we put our intelligence and will on top of our passions.
William P Flynn (on 8/3/09)
@GerryCowie

That's the beauty of secularism. It allows you to believe in the stupendously imaginative notion that a few thousand human beings can live in a pipette or a petri dish.

But it doesn't allow bishops, cardinals and popes, who, on the strength of this stupendously imaginative notion, to try to force my elected representatives to oppose scientific progress which impacts on my quality of life, my longevity and that of my family.

Contrary to you, I believe the majority of Maltese are basically secularists and sick to their back teeth of the catholic church's tentacles in every facet of their existence. And this isn't a new trend either; it's been a long time coming.

Anyway what happens in Malta is none of your business; especially as you say you've got your hands full with secularism in Britain.

Secularists don't imprison anyone for their beliefs; secularism in fact guarantees people's beliefs and religious tolerance.

You have to look elsewhere for imprisonment, torture and murder because of religious intolerance. I'd offer a hint but I don't think you'd need it.

I saw a pope in his pope-mobile yesterday at the Sydney Mardi Gras, thank you.

Was he arrested? No. Why? Secularism.
Joe Zammit (on 7/3/09)
The fruit of human generation, from the first moment of its existence, that is to say, from the moment the zygote has formed, demands the unconditional respect that is morally due to the human being in his bodily and spiritual totality. The human being is to be respected and treated as a person from the moment of conception; and therefore from that same moment his rights as a person must be recognized, among which in the first place is the inviolable right of every innocent human being to life.

A. Muscat (on 7/3/09)
@ Andrew Camilleri

Is the earth flat? Yes, according the bible
Can you drink acid and still be alive? According the bible yes.

The Bible claims Earth is flat, and also has four ends and four corners. Nobody can ever think a ball or a cycle to have corners and ends! Only flat items can have corners and ends.
The bible also says; the flat Earth is established and can never move?! The Sun hurries back to where it rises?
Please read
Isaiah 11:12
Revelation 7:1
Job 38:13
Matthew 4:8
The Psalm 104:5
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. ( Psalm 104:5)"
Is this enough? When it comes to scientific claims, the bible has the dumbest claims, with all due respect to the church.
The bible also says that I can drink acid! please read Mark 16:16-18
I quoted from the bible since the Church stance on many issues is based on what the church claims to be the word of god (The Bible). Either God could err, the Church could err or both. Choose please.
Gerrry Cowie (on 7/3/09)
@William P Flynn - nobody has attackedyour character or personality! That is your own spin! You have a right to your views and I to mine.

You cannot accept that people oppose your views, and you have publicly called for me to be shut up! You denigrate your own character by such behaviour and you need absolutely no help there!

Your secularist viewpoint from far away Australia will never take root in Malta! People in Malta have respect for human life and will not be swayed by your views.

I shall knock secularism where it promotes the destruction of human life.

If you want to see the Pope please arrange it yourself - there are direct flights from Australia to Rome!

If I am being accused of religious fundementalism merely because I am proud to stand up for human life from conception to natural death, then so be it.

Secularist fundementalists like yourself, if you had your way, would have people in prison for their beliefs, since you are always harking back to the past when it comes to the church!

I have seen what secularism has done in Britain. It seeks to erode religious freedom rather than enhance it!
William P Flynn (on 7/3/09)
@GerryCowie

Arguments don't need to be "popular", just logical. Are yours?

Constitutional right to resist secularism? Too late. Malta is, on paper at least, already a secular state.

My comments are on current issues:

Sainthood based on gravedigger's glove and bootlaces - 2006/7.
Australian bishops/cardinal Pell dismally failing to influence (catholic)parliamentarians to vote against stem-cell bills - 2006/7.
Philippine Bishops calling taking the contraceptive pill an abortion - ongoing. (Cardinal Sin of the Philippines once said he knew a 26 year old woman who looked like a 60 year old since she started taking the pill).
The decree by Josef Ratzinger (Crimen Sollicitationis) whereby bishops can only report the discovery of a paedophile priest to the Vatican(not to police)-ongoing.
Paedophile/sadistic nuns abusing orphans getting away scot-free whilst carnival(Nadur/Feb2009) revellers are charged-last week.

Catholic Maltese bishops openly preaching their expectation that catholic parliamentarians must vote against divorce, IVF, contraceptives and other anachronistic catholic taboos - ongoing.

Your attacks on my character/personality are as wrong and off-the-mark as your catholic-fundamentalist arguments.

Love to put my views directly to the pope; can you set up the meeting? I guess not.

Don't knock secularism; it guarantees your religious freedom in protestant Britain.
William P Flynn (on 7/3/09)
Gerry Cowie doesn't seem to be able to understand the difference between he, a British national living in England, with no say in Maltese affairs and no vote - and I, a Maltese born with a right to Maltese citizenship.

Can you speak and write Maltese, Mr Cowie? Were you educated in Malta? Were your parents Maltese? Your grandparents?
I can be on the Moon or on Mars and still have feelings and the right to call Malta my country and to be involved in its affairs. You can live in Malta and never have that right or know those feelings.

You are just a fundamentalist catholic defending your religion's hold on the last vestige of catholic fundamentalist power in Europe; fully in the comfort of the knowledge that catholicism can never have that power in your own country.

Of course, you are welcome to comment, but you can never have one iota of a right to change anything; and I will always have the right to say to you, "Mind your own business".

But especially, don't expect to get away with questioning, demeaning or holding to ridicule my right to comment on the affairs of my country.
A. Muscat (on 7/3/09)
@ Gerry Cowie
Mate,
Nothing in the future will correct the church’s past mistakes. Period.
Andrew Camilleri (on 6/3/09)
Where does the Bible say that the Earth is flat? If you consider religion as your 'enemy', then you first have to know what he stands for.

The Bible never says the Earth is flat - that was a medieval idea; and hey, nothing wrong with that, scientific theories are constantly being debunked by new ones. Who knows, future generations may consider our 'enlightened' brothers and sisters mistaken in their belief of various scientific principles since new ones would have, by then arisen. Living in 2009 does not mean we have suddenly reached the peak of intelligence, knowledge and wisdom. Far from it, we are heading down the slippery slope of relativism.

I simply cannot understand the evil that drives people to get rid of the innocent or suffering individuals who are in most need of the protection society can afford.

I feel it is pretty useless arguing with the 'enlightened' types, since they will always invent some twisted argument to back up their hideous world view. I would not like to be you. Christians are not idiots, you know. We happen to know how to think.
Joe Zammit (on 6/3/09)
The teaching of Christ is part and parcel of our daily private and public lives. Thank God, the great majority of Maltese and Gozitans still want to be Catholic and partake actively in different Catholic activities and religious functions. To have a few against religion is nothing new. During the Roman Empire, Catholic apologetics spoke publicly even to the emperor himself about the good and beauty of the Catholic Religion. They even suffered martyrdom but Christ, who is with his Universal Church for ever, strengthened his Church to such an extent that the emperors and the empire ended while his Church has continued to spread far and wide. 2000 years ago this salvific religion arrived at our shores and is still going strong. Persecution strengthens the Church!
Gerry Cowie (on 6/3/09)
@William P FLynn

Your secularist arguments are not as popular in Malta as you might like to think. Maybe in Australia, where you live, things are different!

You conveniently forget that it is also the constitutional right of Maltese people to oppose moves to secularise their society and to bring in so called moral values which denigrate human life and reduce it to a cheap nothingness just to suit people for whom life is just a cheap commodity.

You also conveniently dig up old arguments in a puerile attempt to ridicule the church. The church has in fact moved on since the flat earth episode, but you choose to dwell on that old chestnut!


You are to be pitied for your views, though you are entitled to them. You seem a very bitter person from what you have said about what you personally feel that the church does. Perhaps you should approach your arch-enemy the Pope and put these views to him and see what he has to say.

The end does not justify the means, Mr Flynn!

I look forward to your next contribution whilst we are all asleep over this side of the globe!


William P Flynn (on 6/3/09)
@GerryCowie

The church believes it ethical to keep a twisted, anguished, incontinent, Alzheimer, and other disease-ridden or comatose body alive. However it considers it unethical for a few cells to be used for stemcell research which will give a good chance for an otherwise perfectly healthy child or person in a wheel chair to walk again; for someone on dialysis to be normal again and millions suffering other afflictions to have an excellent chance of a cure.

The church's flat earth doctrine will never be forgotten; it is however eclipsed by its stem-cell doctrine. During the flat earth doctrine, ignorance, lack of education and the church's crushing power were the order of the day. There's no excuse today - Maltese can stop the church interfering.

It's not hard - Maltese should just vote out parliamentarians who are unable to leave their religion at parliament's doorstep.

It is the constitutional right of every Maltese person (regardless of political affiliations) to voice their complaints in the press and to their elected representatives at every opportunity against church interference and its undue influence.
Gerry Cowie (on 5/3/09)
I welcome William P Flynn, our Australian secularist, for his usual sarcasm, reducing his "contribution" to the level it deserves! I do not hide the fact that I am from the UK, as Mr Flynn states, but he should admit that he is from Australia, seeing as he seems to want to push this point!

I also pity A Muscat also for his sarcasm.

These blogs should be used with fairness and without hint of sarcasm.
L Vella (on 5/3/09)
@ P Zammit

I never mentioned that I want the Church to shut up! I just want it not to impose its opinion on everybody. It can have an opinion but it should stay that way. I hope there will be no threats of excommunication and the sorts when the debate gathers momentum!

Regarding what you said about Iran and Malta, are you sure that Malta is not like Iran?? Because I have my serious doubts. Religious Fundamentalism in Malta is become more evident and not the contrary. The church either becuase it feels in danger or something else is trying even more to impose its opinion on everybody by manipulating the politicians which it sees as puppets that can be moved around as it pleases.
A. Muscat (on 5/3/09)


@ Gerry Cowie

Qoute: ‘Also the Church has moved on since they discovered the world was round etc! So it is not worth dragging up those old arguments again either.’
Shall I take it, the church was in deep inaccuracy for many centauries until it was discovered that Earth is not flat? If so, does that means God can err – taking into consecration the Bible is God’s words? Thank you
A. Muscat (on 5/3/09)


@D. Polidano
‘This fits perfectly with the Catholic Church's view that on the one hand science is a valuable and indispensable tool in the discovery of truth about created matter’
Hitherto, Catholic Church's views are based on the Bible that state among many other odds that planet Earth is flat. Does that fits perfectly with the Catholic Church's view and reflect today’s reality?
William P Flynn (on 5/3/09)
Gerry Cowie should try to convince his UK government and the Rev Prof Agius the US government to pay child allowance and allow tax deductions for dependents for frozen embryos.

That would be as ridiculous as their arguments.
Maria Camilleri (on 5/3/09)

Quick search on the topic shows that the estimated numbers of frozen embyros in the US range from 400,000 to 500,000, whereas the population of the US stands at approximately 305,943,866.

Where did Fr Aguis get his numbers from? Shock tactics.
P.Zammit (on 5/3/09)
@L.Vella
Not sure what you are trying to say with your arguments. However you really should have no problem with the Church expressing its ideas and feelings based on their theological beliefs.
Everyone has a place in this world to express his/her feelings. Why do you want to shut the Church out ? What next, the Vatican ? Then what, the common man in the street and leave this strictly to governments ?
We are not exactly living in a country like Iran for example where State and Religion are one and the same thing. Granted our politicians are sometimes relgious fanatics, but we dont live in a perfect world. Hey look on the bright side, had you been born in Iran you would probably have it worse.
Gerry Cowie (on 4/3/09)
It is an insult to those with a different religion or indeed no religion at all to suggest that this is solely a religious issue.

Those who labour the point about the Church interfering forget that it is the Church's duty to uphold the dignity of human life from conception to natural death.

To suggest that the Church's promotion of science in general means that it has to support the meddling in and the destruction of human life is a nonsense. The Church and others support the upholding of human life and naturally agree with keeping a person alive rather than hastening their death. People are trying to put a spin on things to discredit the Church!

Also the Church has moved on since they discovered the world was round etc! So it is not worth dragging up those old arguments again either.

Assisted reproduction is a very clinical term which is all very well but it is not acceptable to upholders of human life due to the meddling with embryos and with their destruction as if they were insignificant.

We need respect human life from conception to natural death.

You cannot put a spin on life to suit yourself!!
D. Polidano (on 4/3/09)
@ A. Muscat

Please be careful with your quotes! Einstein's famous statement was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" (see Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941).

As you can see, the great scientist's opinion was not only that religion needs science, but that science needs religion, too. This fits perfectly with the Catholic Church's view that on the one hand science is a valuable and indispensable tool in the discovery of truth about created matter, and that on the other hand faith and religion are needed to guide science. Not all that is scientifically possible is morally acceptable.
Joe Zammit (on 4/3/09)
In USA? How does IVF works? In this process the embryos are screened at the first stages of life -- applying technology already used to kill children for sex selection, or who have or could develop genetic defects -- and are selected those embryos that meet the tastes of the buyer. The rest are eliminated. The price tag for the process is about $18,000.

Gerry Cowie (on 4/3/09)
The usual sad comments come out on this subject from those without respect for human life from conception to natural death.

The fact that the Church has encouraged science does not mean that it must encourage trying to manipulate it. Trying to put a spin on the concept of the Church supporting science to suit one's argument is very poor. Thus preservation of existing life - including being against euthenasia - is acceptable.

And let's be clear here, it is not just the Church which upholds the importance of human life. It is insulting to those of no religious persuasion or of other religious persuasios who also value human life to suggest that this is merely a Christian issue!

Just because the Church is prepared to and indeed obliged to stand for life does not make it the enemy of the people! It is those who do not value life and who are prepared to tinker with it who are the enemy of the people.

So-called assisted reproduction involves the destruction of embryos, which does not seem to support life where it in fact involves its destruction. To suggest that Catholics opt out does not make it right for anybody!
Claudine Hundsrucker (on 4/3/09)
and I thought Malta is in the EU !! and a majority of Maltese voted in a referendum for Europe !!
Assissted Reproduction is offered in all European countries and not only the US !!



Joe Zammit (on 4/3/09)
Congratulations to Rev. Prof. Emmanuel Agius on his correct and limpid way of presenting the teaching of the Catholic Church on such a delicate topic as IVF. This teaching is in favour of the dignity of man, in favour of life, in favour of love and in favour of God's law. We must always remember that in our legislation God's law comes first and foremost.
R Grima (on 4/3/09)
The Church originally embraced and promoted Science,but ever since the fifteenth century when Science started to prove the Church wrong and rubbish it on so many long held beliefs it discarded it and ever since has done is best to dismiss it as of no revelence.
Joe Zammit (on 4/3/09)
Can you let a child die? In the same way you cannot let an embryo die. That constitutes murder as well. The embryo is a person and, thank God, we consider embryos persons also in our Criminal Code.
A. Muscat (on 4/3/09)

@ Jcmicallef


I quote ‘I may be mixing two different subjects - but is the Church ready to accept science or not?’
A modern rational man, however, would never accept
a religious scripture which says, in the best possible
poetic language, that the planet Erath is flat. This is because
we live in an age, where human reason, logic and science are given primacy. The answer for your question was put forward long ago so far. According to the famous physicist and Nobel Prize
winner, Albert Einstein, “Religion without science is blind faith’

Charles DeMicoli (on 4/3/09)
The headline to this article is totally misleading - nothing at all to do with the content of the article. By the way, is there a reference to back this assertion?
Joe Tabone-Adami (on 4/3/09)
Oh God-donated gift of Freedom. What utter nonsense is occasionally pronounced in your name by some self-styled pundits of the "enlightenment" - who castigate what they term "interferance" (sic) by the Catholic Church on basic ethical issues. No matter what experienced sages, armed with with proof and statistics, explain!
Edward Bonnici (on 4/3/09)

An ANT or a drop of oil.
.
Our problem is that we try to play God. And every time we do so, we head for a jeopardy and faced with a complete failure.
Instead of bragging about the number of frozen embryos, could all sciences in the USA create an ANT? Or to make it a bit easier, could the hordes of USA’s sciences formulate an alternative to oil?, so they may spare many wars and millions of lives be saved?
L Vella (on 4/3/09)
@ H Gatt

And another thing :) Your concept of democracy is quite warped as well. You say that the common democratic practice is for parliament to decide after hearing both sides of the story. Great, however parliament can decide to ban assisted reproduction, divorce, and everything else for that matter and then what happens to those people who actually would like to have a baby but cannot in a natural manner? They will have to bow down to the decision because both sides of the house are catholics! Don't come and tell me the story of majority and minority because these people will always be the minority because most couples can have children naturally.

It is the democratic requisite of the state to protect and represent everyone including those who's voice cannot be heard! So when parliament finally decides, the MP's have to detach themselves from the teachings of the church and vote according to the need of the poeple. Again as I said earlier, catholics can opt-out of making use of assisted reproduction so that they will please their leaders showing them that they did abide by their teachings and that their time was not completely wasted!
L Vella (on 4/3/09)
@ H Gatt

1) I'm am not one usually lost in conspiracy theory however I am somewhat suspicious at this stage of what is going on in Malta at the moment.

2) I never mentioned 'KICKING' somebody out of SOMETHING. I said that should a member of the PL not feel he shares the same progressive principles as instilled by the new leader he should RESIGN. See RESIGN. If he still wants to be a hypocrite and stay he can STAY. Again STAY.

3) What you are saying is somewhat scary as to what the PL should do. You said, that Joseph should act as a PM-in-waiting - agree. But what does this mean? Agreeing with even the most populist of ideas, being socialist, social-democrat, nationalist, christian-democrat and green all at once? No he should stand by his progressive principles and act as a progressive leader!
jcmicallef (on 4/3/09)
The Church has all the right to discuss and study these issues, but....

It comes out 'attacking' (my wording) the procreation of life because it is deemd as being an intervention out of normal parametsers.

On the other hand, the same Church is prepared to accept the prolonging of a sorry life by use of machines, even when there may be little or no hope of a decent existance, let alone a person's right to stop living in a dignified way.

I may be mixing two different subjects - but is the Church ready to accept science or not?

John Lane (on 4/3/09)
More frozen embryos than living people in the US? That is a most unlikely claim.

It would be interesting to learn by whom "it was said". My guess is that it was
some rabid ideologue who liked to spice the argument with sheer hyperbole.
H Gatt (on 4/3/09)
@L Vella
As for Gift of Life, they draw a wider support than you think they do. In fact, I know of quite a few Maltese non-Christians, atheists, agnostics and even people who are against any religion who actually identify themselves with Gift of Life on abortion. It seems you have a warped idea of what Gift of Life is all about and like James De Giorgio before me I’m shocked at your attitude. USA or no USA in the long run what is happening there will affect us also. If you consider yourself progressive, then you cannot be so short-sighted as to see only the situation in Malta!
H Gatt (on 4/3/09)
@L Vella
Please note that the House Social Affairs Committee is made up of MPs from both sides of Parliament. To listen to what any social organisation has to say is their duty. That they don’t necessarily agree with what that organisation is proposing is their right. That the organisation in question (in this case the Church) makes its proposals and leaves the final decision in the state’s hands (as happened in the meeting referred to in this article) is standard democratic practice. That you don’t agree with the Church is your fundamental democratic right. Kicking people out of ANYTHING simply because they don’t agree with you is NOT democratic. The PL has no monopoly on progressive thinking even if to you it may seem like the most progressive political party in Malta. That as a PL supporter you simply see your party as the ‘opposition’ and want it to be exclusive is depressing. Hopefully for your party’s sake, Dr. Muscat will be wise enough to understand that if he wants to be Malta’s next PM the PL will have to be inclusive and act as a government-in-waiting rather than as opposition.
L Vella (on 4/3/09)
@ James De Giorgio

You said, and I quote "by the revelation that the USA has more than 350 MILLION embryos". What revelation is this?? It has no news value whatsoever! Everyone knows that the US allows these practices and I am surely not the person that can defend the attitude of the US - they can decide for themselves. What I'm more concerned here is the lack of respect towards individual liberty shown by the church and the State alike when they decide to restrict the actions of people acting as a big brother in matters that should be completely independent from both the church and the State.

Again let me repeat, if you are a fundamentalist catholic than you have a right to be so and then subsequently you have a right not to use any method of assisted reproduction. However, if on the contrary I am not a catholic and I wish to make use of assisted reproduction then I should have every right to do so, no? Or are you against this freedom?

Don't try to divert the argument on the US - speak about the state of our country and the negative path it took.
carmen caruana (on 4/3/09)
the church is always justified becuase it's arguments are based on theology and religion so why don't we talk on the basis of sociology?? we know that 'broken' families are not as broken as we think. divorced couples are setting up an alternative family but the church never talk about these terms.
Even if the church has its rights to talk about everything, the govt must work for its citizens not in the name of the church.
James De Giorgio (on 4/3/09)

What is more valuable than life? Is L. Vella actually NOT sickened by the revelation that the USA has more than 350 MILLION embryos?

Is he sickened that the Church is against this?

I am actually sickened by the attitude he shows.
L Vella (on 4/3/09)
The interferance of the church in the everyday life and decisions of individuals and couples is just sickening! Malta should have laws regulating assisted reproduction so that everyone could have access to it - a catholic couple can then revert to not using this alternative if their teaches demands that they remain childless for their entire life! Cohabitation should be recognised officially for everyone - heterosexuals and homosexuals! No ifs or buts - we are living in the 21st century and not in the middle ages!

I sincerely hope that the Progressive Opposition has the guts to resist such attempts by the church to determine the life of people because being Progessive definetely means that they safeguard the individual liberty of people. Members of the new Labour Party who do not share these beliefs should just resign and join the Nationalist Party.

Apart from this now I can make sense of what the Gift of Life people actually want. They want to eradicate the possibility of assisted reproduction by introducing a clause in the constitution recognising the embryo as a human being and thus eliminating the possibility of people trying to successfully undertake assisted reproduction! Shame!

Poll

Was the budget good for Malta?

  • yes
  • no
  • don't know
  • don't care


View results

Fun Stuff


Play Sudoku