Gozo Bishop condemns 'offensive' behaviour at Gozo carnival

Aldo Brincat

Mar 20th 2009, 13:44

@Graham Crocker
Why wait till next year?

Richard Vella

Mar 20th 2009, 13:16

@Dr Saliba
You adopt the stance that the merrymakers at Nadur contravened the law and were therefore rightfully prosecuted. One cannot but agree that in a civilised and democratic country the rule of law should be fervently upheld. But then why are we not clamouring, with equal vigor, for the police to take action on that other much more serious crime conceded by the bishop of Gozo not that long ago, even if he considered such action inappropriate. Does the rule of law apply only when it suits our prejudices and convenience.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 19th 2009, 14:53

@GrahamCrocker

The Commissioner of Police should be grateful to you to you for forewarning him in advance about the mass defiance of the law by 400 "Jesuses" intended for the next Nadur carnival - always supposing that you have a reliable source of information and that your prophecy is not just wishful thinkimng on your part.

Graham Crocker

Mar 19th 2009, 13:28

Dr Francis Saliba,
I'd like to see them do their duty next year when circa 400 Jesus's flood Nadur.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 18th 2009, 05:05

@KennethCassar

You disagreed with John Meli when he said that those who had acted indecently at the Nadur Carnival should be prosecuted (1 week 2days ago). That means that, according to you, the police should not have done their duty and they should not have prosecuted those who had violated the law.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 17th 2009, 18:27

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

As you will probably have noticed, nobody except us two is actively participating in the comments under this article. Also, there are several threads on the same topic where we both have posted comments (incidentally, to see that I "play fair", you may wish to see my last comment at http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20090305/local/bishops-urge-authorities-to-act-on-nadur-carnival ).

It is a waste of time for both of us to keep following the several threads on the topic, not to mention that we have probably exhausted all our arguments and have bored other readers to death.

But if you want this debate to go on, I would propose that we take it to Fr Joe Borg's blog (under the relevant topic).

Of course, also to be fair, I'll let you have the last word here, if you so wish.

See you around.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 17th 2009, 18:01

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

In any case, we're wasting each others' time. What matters to me is not who should be blamed, but that we finally acquire a sense of humour like the rest of Europe.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 17th 2009, 17:58

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

I had not deviated away from anything. I had only chosen to comment on other aspects of the case.

I also never challenged the right and duty of the police to prosecute those who violate the law.

I did of course insist that the police only charged the offenders because they were instigated by the bishops, since the alternative would be that the police left these persons break the law for at least a whole night.

I also did say that the police either did not see anything wrong or else that they had refrained from doing their duty until were urged by the bishops. This is supported by the fact that people dressed in the "offensive clothes" were allowed to stay in those clothes for at least a whole night (I witnessed them myself).

I also still insist that when someone is caught red-handed, no investigation is necessary.

I made no strategic retreat. We are still left with the following:

Either the police were inefficient, or the police turned a blind eye at first, since they left the "offenders" stay in their "offensive clothes" for at least the whole of Saturday night (I was there).

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 17th 2009, 17:17

@KennethCassar
You have deviated away from your original stance that those who were offended by the Nadur mockery of Christ had no right to be offended and then you challenged the right and duty of the police to prosecute those who had violated the law.
Next you insisted that the police charged the offenders only because they were instigated by the bishops. You alleged that the police themselves either did not see anything wrong or else that they had refrained from doing their duty until were urged by the bishops.
When the police officially disclosed that they actually took action immediately they noticed the infringement, and also that they investigated other cases, you challenged the veracity of the statement by the Commissioner of Police by silly assertion that investigations were not really necessary. That appears to be your position today after a progressive “strategic retreat” to a last untenable defensive position. Your contention is that the police must be lying and that you and your suppositions are the sole repository of the truth. Or else, the police are inefficient! Dream on.
Before you challenge this synopsis please do check your past comments. I have done so already.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 17th 2009, 16:59

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

Also, please note that I couldn't have known about your second thoughts, before you posted them.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 17th 2009, 16:57

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

Why all this animosity towards me even when I am speaking favourably of you? If you read my comment again, you will see that I have basically written what you are saying.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 17th 2009, 16:05

@KennethCassar

Have you been delegated to answer o.b.o. Stephen Borg Cardona? He was undubitably suggesting that I do not really have "doctorates" (in the plural) when I had never made that claim. It was a certain James Coleiro who had claimed that and the query should have been directed at him not at me. I had only defended myself by saying, truthfully, that my University qualifications were two degrees (only one of them a doctorate) and two diplomas.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 17th 2009, 10:30

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

Stephen Borg Cardona was not questioning your diplomas. He was questioning ON them. There is a difference.

And no, no one in his right mind will say that you are boasting in this specific case, since you were obviously asked about them. In any case, people have the right to boast, if that were the case, which clearly it is not.

By the way, I do not have any particular "purpose" in discrediting anyone. I only value truth. If the truth is shown to be slightly different than I thought (like in this case), then I will correct myself (people who do not have blind faith usually do so).

So in this case, if the police statement is true, then the conclusion is that the police at Nadur were not efficient enough (to put it mildly). Happy?

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 17th 2009, 10:23

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

The letter you mention states, among other things, that:

"As a matter of fact, offenders who were noticed by the Police at the material time were approached and had their particulars taken on the spot...Moreover, police officers on duty also ordered offenders to remove any costume which went contrary to the provisions of the Criminal Code..."

I suppose that, if one takes the above to be true, then this would mean that the police were not paying enough attention. I have been at the Nadur Carnival on Saturday, and there were people in Jesus costumes (more than one) the whole night. Presumably they were either not spotted by the police (which is hard to believe considering that one of them had a huge flag), or else they were not asked to change clothes on that particular Saturday night.

Not that I expect you to believe me.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 17th 2009, 08:06

@ Joe Xuereb:

I certainly would not object ;)

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 16th 2009, 21:56

@StephenBorgCardona
On second thoughts, perhaps you intended to address your query to James Coleiro because it was he who wrote " ... I am humble enough not to go around pomping my doctorates around".

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 16th 2009, 20:27

@KennethCassar

Regarding your question about the police involvement in the Nadur Carnival arrests I draw your attention to the letter appearing in the Malta Today of the 15 March 2009 entitled "Police Action during the Nadur Carnival" over the signature of WPC 255 Roberta Fenech o.b.o the Commissioner of Police. It is a complete answer to your speculative questions - not that I expect you to believe anything that does not support your purpose.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 16th 2009, 19:50

@StephenBorgCardona

I said two degrees and two diplomas - not doctorates. Three are from the Royal University of Malta (as it was then known) and one from the University of London. You are welcome to inspect the original certificates in my home, since you are rashly questioning them. I will not elaborate further on this blog because I anticipate a knee jerk reaction from some quarters implying that I am boasting but the truth is that I am being provoked by specific questions.

Stephen Borg Cardona

Mar 14th 2009, 23:14

I`m curious Dr Saliba , what are your doctorates in ?

Joe Xuereb

Mar 14th 2009, 10:46

I have a dream. The exchanges between Francisco and Kenneth should be scripted by Neil Whatshisname, the producer of Stitches and presented to the world stage (not the Maltese stage) obviously. It would put Stitches in the shade in not time. The script would be partly in Maltese in order to put Malta on the map.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 13th 2009, 10:56

@ Johnny Smith:

Cont...

Now to tackle your other point. You say that:

"But without faith, God is nothing, So since faith exists, therefore, God is not nothing and evidence for God's nonexistence cannot exist. Therefore God does exists, and he does not pay by the hour, but some people's hour might be coming soon and could be too late!!"

Now let's follow this "logic" by using another example:

But without faith in fairies, fairies are nothing, so since faith in fairies exists (yes, it does), therefore fairies are not nothing and evidence for fairies' non-existance cannot exist. Therefore fairies exist.

Can't you see the absurdity in this kind of reasoning.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 13th 2009, 10:43

@ Johnny Smith:

I apologise for only replying now. All this fuss about nothing made me miss your post until now.

Regarding your "guard to the queen" example, you're proving my point. If God exists, He does not need any guards.

Regarding nature being about being all the harmful things you mention, nature is all about the beautiful things as well. Also, beauty and harm are subjective. But if you identify God as the creator of the beautiful things in nature, you must be prepared to identify Him as the creator of the harmful things as well. It is also important for me to point out that I do not outrightly disbelieve in a "prime mover" non-personal "God", but I do believe that evolution and natural selection does explain that the emergence of life or matter could have been a single event - evolution/natural selection did the rest.

Cont...

George M Sant

Mar 13th 2009, 08:35

@Dr Saliba
I am intrigued by your statement "I target wrong opinions, not the people who harbour them". I would be most interested in learning the criteria you use to determine which opinions are correct and which are wrong.

George M Sant

Mar 13th 2009, 08:35

@Kenneth Cassar
The options available to the police commissioner were limited. He said what he had to say and anything else would have been tricky. His statement, like that of any other leader and politician, has to be weighed against other evidence, in this case the account of the incident as detailed by eye witnesses and by the media. Dr Saliba may chose to take the statement literally if it suits him. Like you Kenneth, and many others, I am not persuaded and retain the view that the police would not have acted were it not for the interference by the bishops. They are the real wrong doers here, abusing their authority to impose their views and values on the whole of society. Their action is particularly rich when one recalls how a short while earlier the same bishop stood at the altar defending those he conceded had committed a crime, as Martin Portelli has pointed out. What happened at Nadur was in keeping with ongoing festivities. It may have irritated a few egos but what happened at Lourdes destroyed lives.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 12th 2009, 17:55

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

Now let's turn the spotlight on you.

What I'm basically saying is that the police wanted to turn a blind eye this time round, but were constrained to take action after complaints by the bishops.

The alternative is that the police immediately thought that the wearing of the costumes in question was a very serious crime that warrants an arrest and arraigning in court, but they let a very serious crime be committed for four whole consecutive nights.

Is this what you're saying? If so, who's putting the police in a bad light? Me or you?

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 12th 2009, 17:22

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

Again, my criticism was regarding the fact that the police only intended to act after the Bishops demanded so. If this were not the case, the "offender" would have been arrested immediately.

Fact 1. There was police presence at the Nadur Carnival. I was there, as were thousands of Maltese and Gozitans.

Fact 2. Unlike all previous years (I visit Nadur carnival every year - not in costume, don't worry), the police did not order anyone to go back and change their "offensive" clothes. Neither did they arrest anyone.

Fact 3. It is the duty of the police, not only to arrest people who commit crimes, but to prevent a crime from happening, particularly if it is a serious crime that warrants an arrest.

Fact 4. Considering the preceding two facts, it becomes obvious that the police turned a blind eye, at least until the carnival was over.

Fact 5. The previous four facts logically show that the police did not take any action until someone complained.

Fact 6. It is the bishops who complained.

Make your own conclusion.

Now let's have your own interpretation of events.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 12th 2009, 17:02

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

"I agree with you completely that you are not fooling anybody - but it is not for wont of trying. Bye".

You throw a stone, and then run away. I challenge you to show where I have tried to fool anybody, and to show the evidence. Come on...I know you're a master of avoiding inconvenient questions, but if you are saying the truth, you will meet the challenge.

See you.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 12th 2009, 16:11

@Kenneth Cassar

I agree with you completely that you are not fooling anybody - but it is not for wont of trying. Bye.

Joe Xuereb

Mar 12th 2009, 09:04

A guy can have a string of PhDs. as long as the right hand of god. If he does not learn to think for himself all his accolades are as valuable as the paper they are printed on. This is the same as saying that the best schools (all schools but religious ones particularly) can teach all the subjects under the sun. If they do not teach their charges how to TRULY think, then these schools' efforts are a waste of time and money (especially if they are fee-paying establishments of excellence. Like not).

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 11th 2009, 15:25

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

My criticism was regarding the fact that the police only intended to act after the Bishops demanded so. If this were not the case, the "offender" would have been arrested immediately. The only explanation why he wasn't is that the police were turning a blind eye for once. If you have a better explanation, please enlighten us.

I'm not fooling anybody, but then again, nobody is fooling me.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 11th 2009, 14:52

@ Kenneth Cassar

Your "criticism" of the bishops' concern that criminals were openly flouting the law and your "criticism" of the police when they actually prosecuted, has been so consistently vehement that it would be idle for you to pretend that you were not "attacking" both of them. You do not fool anybody!

I do not have enemies of my own making because, unlike many of my critics, I target wrong opinions, not the people who harbour them and who try to spread them.

Whenever citizens and the police "know" that a crime has been committed, it is still absolutely necessary to "investigate" so as to collect the evidence and witnesses necessary to persuade the court of law. That much should be evident to everybody.

martin portelli

Mar 11th 2009, 13:16

The bishop has embarked on the rechristianisation of Malta/Gozo but he embarks at the wrong port. He has to reflect on the tenant that Lex Canonica is not entrenched in the Maltese constitution, that the state is secular and that carnival has nothing to do with tasteful behaviour. It is precisely the suspension of 'conventional' order that spurns carnival. That is why the Valletta carnival is deader than Grand master Lascaris! His Excellency needs to reflect on why the Maltese and Gozitans choose to wear ecclesiastical/sacred habits at the carnival of Nadur. It is in part spurned by the cognitive dissonance shown by the ecclesiastical authorities, who on the one hand want moral order but than obscure and fail to bring to justice serious offenders against the moral code in their own house. Secular justice is equal for all. Reason should aid Faith here. Why cling to the medieval idea of privilege? Is that the way forward for the Maltese and Gozitan Church? True politicians who keep forgetting that the state is secular at this point blur the line between state and church It's bad PR for the Church, it keeps providing martyrs for the secularist cause.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 11th 2009, 12:24

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

Cont...

A law probibiting the vilification of ALL religions would effectively prohibit the vilification of ANY religion. The Westboro Baptist Church (among many others) would oppose such a law, and they are not atheists.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 11th 2009, 12:21

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

"only an atheist would have a motive for protesting against a law that forbids the vilification of ALL religions".

I have already proven to you (Westboro Baptist Church among many others) that even religious people might have a motive for protesting against such a law. Faced with this inconvenient truth, you protest that the Westboro Baptist Church is not Maltese. What kind of argument is that?

Simon Tabone

Mar 11th 2009, 11:30

Ma nistax niskuza lil dan iz-zaghzuh u nejd li ma ghamilx hazin.
Pero sur Isqof, hawn tant fuq xiex titkellem, bhal dawk in-nisa li ġew ordnati jinżgħu għarwenin. Dan hu abbuz mill-haddiema!
Jew aktar skandaluza, skond perit li jahdem l-MRA (u naqbel mieghu mijja fil-mijja) hija li bil-bini taċ-Ċimiterju tan-Nadur se ssir ħsara irreperabbli lill-ambjent.
Imma l-bini ta' cimiterju ma nikkundannawhx, ghax dan il-progett favur l-interessi tal-knisja!

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 11th 2009, 11:29

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

I still have not found one instance where I have "attacked" the bishops or the police. If you describe criticism as an attack, I suppose you must have a lot of "enemies".

As for the law that protects all religions against "defamation", I never mentioned defamation. As for a law protecting all religions from ridicule, I won't look up a law that doesn't exist. You cannot prove a negative. The onus is on you to prove that such a law exists.

I am not "presuming to dictate how the police should carry out their duties, when to proceed to immediate arrest and when to investigate first". It's the law and common sense that dictate this. To help you understand, I'll just say that you don't need to investigate what you already know.

C. Vella

Mar 11th 2009, 09:05

"We all support our Bishops, because we believe and respect God, who is in Heaven who one-day will come to Judge those who do disrespectful acts (unless repent) including myself, if I would have done such things !! In my opinion, have fun, but not with anyone connected to other religions."

Sorry Mr Meli I choose to differ. I respect God during every wakeful moment of my life. But respect to the clergy is all another thing. When God will come to judge us all he will find me ready as I believe that I live a life which is both ethically and morally correct.

Wearing gold crosses, rings and wearing exclusive attire does not open the gates of heaven. Ask the victims of church (shhhhhhhh) pedophilia victims for details on such people.

As regards having fun. Did you see the Valletta carnival? Bore, bore bore.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 10th 2009, 21:31

@KennethCassar

You have joined the ranks of those who in this blog, entitled “The Gozo Bishop condemns offensive behaviour at the Gozo Carnival”, criticised the police for enforcing the law, and only because they were instigated by the bishop. Your attack against the police could not be twisted into anything else except an attack against the bishop himself also.

Contrary to what you say the Criminal Law definitely protects ALL religions against defamation - look it up. What you allege is something totally different. Your allegation is that the police did not enforce an existing law in respect of some incident allegedly observed by you. You are presuming to dictate how the police should carry out their duties, when to proceed to immediate arrest and when to investigate first. I do not pretend to share your "expertise" in that respect.

I am not speaking about any laws or religious practices in other parts of the world. In Malta we undoubtedly have a law that protects against the vilification of ALL religions and only an atheist would have a motive for protesting against a law that forbids the vilification of ALL religions.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 10th 2009, 17:21

@ Fr Francis Saliba:

"Your hostile comments have now been widened from your original attack on the bishops".

I have scrolled the whole page and found no attack on the bishops from me.

What exactly do you mean "my original attack on the bishops"?

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 10th 2009, 15:37

Let me start with a correction. Daphne's article was on Sunday, not today.

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

"the Criminal Law protects also all other religions from vilification"

No it doesn't. I didn't see anyone mocking Islam at the Nadur carnival being arrested. I was there.

"Only an atheist would have an interest in objecting to the protection of all religions from vilification".

That's what you think. How about visiting the website of the Westboro Baptist Church. In the US, anyone can vilify any religion, and in the example I give, it is the Westboro Baptists who are vilifying Catholics, even going as far as claiming that the Pope will burn in hell.

If the commissioner of police is not bending the truth, then the police force would be incompetent, or worse. They either did not see the culprit (which is hard to believe), or else they did not do their "duty".

As for the investigations starting immediately, if the culprit were to be arrested on the spot, there would be no need for any investigation. Elementary.

It is not me who is undermining the reputation of the police. It is the Commissioner of the Police himself.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 10th 2009, 14:08

@KennethCassar

The Constitution says that the official religion of the Republic is the Catholic faith. That is totally different from imposing it on anyone - so much so that the Criminal Law protects also all other religions from vilification. Only an atheist would have an interest in objecting to the protection of all religions from vilification.

I see no reason why the Commissioner of Police should be accused of lying - even under your usual ploy of maligning by the subterfuge of asking questions. Actually I take his word for it and dismiss your base insinuation with the contempt it deserves. Until you produce factual evidence to the contrary I accept the police declaration that the " ... INVESTIGATIONS BY THE GOZO POLICE INTO THIS MATTER STARTED IMMEDIATELY ONCE THESE OFFENCES WERE OBSERVED BY THE POLICE".

Your hostile comments have now been widened from your original attack on the bishops. They have now degenerated into serious and base malignant insinuations aimed to undermine the reputation of the police.

Your questions are now far worse than rhetorical. They are irrational.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 10th 2009, 14:04

Let's get on track...apparently, if Daphne Caruana Galizia is correct in her article of today (in another newspaper), it is illegal to dress as a priest, but not as Christ and the apostles. Apparently Christ and the apostles went scot-free. I heard that Judas was not even charged...presumably he was the one who gave the tip-off.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 10th 2009, 07:30

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

It is not the opinion of most people that matters. It is the law. The imposition of religion is both in the constitution and in Maltese law.

And tell me, how does disagreeing with the illegality of the vilification of any religion become the imposition of atheism? This is not a rhetorical question.

As for the Commissioner of Police's "clarification", do you seriously believe that the investigations (not the charges, as you say - the charges, of course, have to be brought up in court, after the event) in respect of the Nadur Carnival activities were NOT commenced as a result of the statement by the Bishops?

Are you saying that the Police only found out about these incidents by seeing pictures in newspapers or websites? Are you expecting us to believe that no single police officer saw these people in Nadur? If they did, why did they not take action immediately? Is it perhaps because they did not intend to take any action until the Bishops raised their voice and demanded their arrest?

Again, my questions are not rhetorical. Please reply.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 9th 2009, 14:08

@KennethCassar Will you ever understand that, in the opinion of most people who matter, Malta is a civilised country, that it does not "impose religion" on anybody but it only makes it a criminal offence to vilify all religions with a special mention of Catholicisn as the official religion of the Republic? Anyone disagreeing with that would be advocating the imposition of atheism on all of us.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 9th 2009, 13:51

@ all those of good will. Now that the Commissioner of Police has officially clarified that the charges in respect of the Nadur Carnival activities were NOT commenced as a result of the statement by Archbishop Paul Cremona and Bishop Mario Grech but that they had actually started beforehand, immediately the offences were observed by the police, is it too much to hope that our local anti clericals who habitually grasp every opportunity to malign Malta’s Catholicity would express regret for their much resented incitement?

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 9th 2009, 12:20

@ John Meli:

"We all agree that those who had acted or done any indecent acts should be procecuted and sentenced".

No, we don't all agree.

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 9th 2009, 12:16

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

In every civilized country the law does not impose religion.

John Meli

Mar 8th 2009, 19:23

We all agree that those who had acted or done any indecent acts should be procecuted and sentenced.As catholics we can forgive, even the Bishops can do this, but the authorities cannot have this facility, because if one had broke the law, they must face criminal justice.

The main point will always remain that according to official Police Reports and those of the Ministry of Justice & Home Affairs stated that photographs published in media (internet) and supplied to the authorities do demonstrated that their bad behaviour was "not simply a case of people dressing up as Christ or that of saints" but much more, so it's a matter of "a question of public indecency and offending religious sentiment, some by showing or exhibition of Jesus Phallus (penis)" - Do you approve such a things, making fun of Jesus?

We all support our Bishops, because we believe and respect God, who is in Heaven who one-day will come to Judge those who do disrespectful acts (unless repent) including myself, if I would have done such things !! In my opinion, have fun, but not with anyone connected to other religions.

G.Schembri

Mar 8th 2009, 18:56

-cont
Being reasonable does not necessarily mean being just, and using legal jargon will not make a criminal act right though the person will never be found guilty. I wonder if you know this employer, I wonder if this employer goes to church and receives Holy Communion. I wonder if some holy priest has heard his/her confession and prononced all his/her sins forgiven. But then if a youth dresses up as Jesus Christ (though I admit it was in bad taste) then we take him to court and se tence him to a suspended sentence, like we do to some drug trafiker or armed robber.

G.Schembri

Mar 8th 2009, 18:55

@ Dr Francis Saliba . " Female employees at an undisclosed workplace were asked to undress in order to prove they were not menstruating after a sanitary towel was spotted in a public area. This was one of the complaints dealing with various aspects of gender and race discrimination investigated by the National Commission for the Promotion of Equality last year" - Times of Malta 5th March.
Are you saying that The Times or the National Commission for the promotion of equality lied? If these employees were terrefied enough to undress, how do you expect them to lodge a complaint?
I EXPECT OUR FATHERS THE BISHOPS TO CONDEMN SUCH BEHAVIOUR AND ASK THE POLICE TO TAKE ACTION. I also expect you and all those who like you condemned a young man for wearing a costum in carnival to condemn such an act. For how can a true Christian be moved by a carnival costume and not by the suffering of others?

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 8th 2009, 14:45

@GSchembri

Be reasonable!

The evidence for the outrage at Nadur was plentiful because it was done in public, before a large crowd, and under the eyes of the police. All the necessary evidence was known to many eye witnesses including the authorities. In the case you mention there is no similar eye-witness evidence available to the general public. If an offence was committed, and if a report is lodged by the people involved, it is to be expected that the police will take the appropriate action. Not otherwise.

G.Schembri

Mar 8th 2009, 11:46

@ all those who in the name of God support the police and court into taking action and convicting this youth and to the Holier than thou Bshops.
How many of you protested when an employer made his employees undress to check if they were menstruating. I AM STILL WAITING FOR THE POLICE TO TAKE ACTION.
I also expect you fervent christians to complain.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 7th 2009, 13:21

@KennethCassar

It should be obvious that laws on the statute book are there to be enforced by the police and obeyed by all law abiding citizens. In any civilized country, the observance of the rule of law is too serious a matter to be left to the whims of revellers in a roistering carnival crowd who have no respect for the laws of the land, decent cilivilized behaviour and respect for the rights and sentiments of the majority

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 7th 2009, 11:37

@ Dr Francis Saliba:

I suppose the police should start arresting all owners of bookstores and DVD shops then. Now that would be a nice picture to send to Brussels.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 6th 2009, 21:41

Kodici Kriminali – Art 163

Kull min bi kliem, b’gesti, b’kitba stampata jew le, bi stampi jew bxi mezz iehor vizibbli, ikasbar ir-Religjon Kattolika Appostolika Rumana, illi hija ir-religjon ta’Malta, inkella joffendi r-Religjon Kattolika Appostolika Rumana billi jkasbar lil dawk li huma ta’din ir-religjon jew lill-ministri taghha, jew kull haga li tkunta’devozzjoni tar-Religjon Kattolika Appostolika Rumana, jew li tkun ikkonsagrata jew iddestinata biss ghad-devozzjoni ta’din ir-religjon, jehel, meta jinsab hati, il-piena ta’ prigunerija minn xahar sa sitt xhur.

Joe Xuereb

Mar 6th 2009, 18:44

@ John Smith Faith exists so so must God. Faith is not tangible. It is a concept, an idea. And as such it can only be recognised as an idea. Certainly not like an apple or a euro coin in the palm of your hand. Which, by your own inference, leaves the existence of a god precisely nowhere. Now robotic thinking is a different matter. The thinking, as concept, is intangible. But the robot it operates from is real enough and vey tangible. I am sorry if it sounds a little convoluted but I could not make it any easier.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 6th 2009, 17:11

Relying only on what has been reported in the press and my scanty knowledge of the law I am mystified why the accused in connection with the Nadur Carnival obscenities are being charged under Article 338 (o) of the Criminal Code according to which they are very likely to be set free because no wearing of “uniforms” or “vestments” is involved. Could some legal luminary or the police inform the concerned general public why they are not also being charged under Art 163 (vilification of the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church) which would seem to be the more appropriate charge?

Johnny Smith

Mar 6th 2009, 14:10

Kenneth Cassar: When you stated “If God exists, He can take care of Himself.” Maybe, if you had been a guard with the queen, and someone comes to tell you, you don't have a queen! So ar'ent you doing guard duty for nothing?

The same is with those who believe in or not, for example, “just go outside at night time and look up to see the stars & moon in a clear night especially if you have a telescope., We'll it's hard to see such a majestic sight and not thinking who and what could have made these all so beautiful. So how did life “happened” when nature is about dissolution, oxidation, mineral deposits, poison, corrosion, erosion, rot and breaking down “not” about building these up? So any evidence would be against faith. But without faith, God is nothing, So since faith exists, therefore, God is not nothing and evidence for God's nonexistence cannot exist. Therefore God does exists, and he does not pay by the hour, but some people's hour might be coming soon and could be too late!!

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 5th 2009, 14:25

@James Coleiro.
You are totally mixed up. It is not I who am behaving as a “sape tutto” but someone else who has boasted in so many words of “knowing all the answers”. I do not go about “pomping” my “doctorates” around – in fact I have never mentioned my two degrees and two diplomas. I am mentioning them now only because you force me to do so in order to rebut your false allegation. I regularly use “Dr” before my name because that identifies me precisely and, unlike others, I do not feel the need to hide behind any vague anonymity.

I do not need to re-read my comments to prove to myself that I am very happy to be associated with the Archbishop and my Catholic co-religionists rather than the vulgar noisy minority who are unable “to have a life” without being blasphemously obscene and insulting to all others.

Joe Xuereb

Mar 5th 2009, 11:14

I always (well, for a long time) knew that denial is powerful. Interesting response nevertheless. Ouch!

James Coleiro

Mar 5th 2009, 10:26

@Francis Saliba

I am also university graduate and but I am humble enough not to go around pomping (if you will excuse my quasi-poetic licence) my doctorates around.

Taking refuge behind your degree and 'sape tutto' attitude does not score your narrow rationale any points.

Before you start shooting back with your labeling excuses, read all your blogs again and when you do the only matter of substance that you will manage to find is effectively the
" because the bishop says its wrong we must follow blindly'. You attach yourself to a prudish morality that would humble a Victorian.

The Nadur Carnival attracts thousands year on year and you are not obliged to go to what is a grotesque carnival. I think next year I might go dressed as as a citizen in roman times or a bedouin. Maybe I could go dressed all in black...in that case I could be a priest or a fascist or a pastor.............and let's see if the police arrest me or quite a few people like me.

With respect - Get a life please Doctor!

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 5th 2009, 05:48

The blasphemously vulgar deportment of some participants in this year’s edition of the Nadur carnival goes much beyond the limits of tolerable, civil and respectful behaviour one would expect from some revellers. This is a clear-cut case of illegal behaviour that the police are in duty bound to prevent preferably and, failing that, to prosecute the offenders. Evidently the police are empowered to act but they are disinclined to do so unless prodded by a court injunction as proved by their action in the case of an offending caricature suggestive of a church door.
It would be much more effective if, in future, instead of lamenting about the Nadur carnival blasphemous revelry after the event, the Church and other authorities would be proactive and privately and publicly exhort the police to carry out their duties without any prodding.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 4th 2009, 18:16

@JoeXuereb

I speak only as a university graduate but who, unlike you, does not pretend to know all the answers.

I am dismayed by anyone who flits inconsequentially from one topic to another, name drops authors without being certain how to spell their names, comments on their works without ever having read their books and who feels qualified to dismiss London University bursary students "as thick as planks" because he has gleaned info here and there and because he has spent some time at the British Library!

Please excuse me if I leave you to wallow in your smug omniscience while I devote my time more profitably.

Joe Xuereb

Mar 4th 2009, 13:34

@ Frank. I did not say Latin. I said Latino. As in Latin(o) lover. As opposed to, I don't know, a Swedish lover (bless 'em!).
@ Francois (cool and elegant but still Latino). I said prescribe and I meant prescribe. Proscribe is something else altogether (back to your Latin Primer.........
Franciszek - a bit of the cold, calculating Slav there Francesco).
@ Franġisk (an exquisite version of a hot-bloodied Mellieħi, a mixture of Maltese and Arabic, what chemistry!). As Giljan Agius said, we are indoctrinated and we have no choice. Come the teenage years and we have by then developed a mind of our own. Some explore other belief systems. Some shore up the received wisdom. Some, brought up with no religion at all, take it up to give meaning to their life or as an academic subject (a bit like studying Latin, useless, but it helps their English). And so they all go, looking for Truth. Whatever people feel comfortable with. We come into this world, welcomed by an entourage. Needs must. When we die, we go alone. The period in between and how we manage it is our responsibility. It is Man's legacy. All together now. Ahhhh!

Kenneth Cassar

Mar 4th 2009, 12:54

@ MG Buttigieg:

If Muslims have only themselves to blame for being offended at the parody of Mohammed, the same applies to Catholics. That is what I mean by harmless fun. I'm sure that deep down most Christians do believe that God would not make a mountain out of a petty issue such as a parody of Him. If anything, He would take it into account on "Judgement Day".

Of course, this does not mean that I would do such a thing (dress as Christ in carnival), since I know that many people would be offended (and I wouldn't unnecessarily offend people), but this does not mean that those offended have a reason to be offended. If God exists, He can take care of Himself.

One thing's for sure...anything that happened at the Nadur carnival is in no way comparable to the atrocious murders you mentioned.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 4th 2009, 11:46

@JoeXuereb

I do not mind a little Latin - I actually studied it. What I do mind is that anyone would think that "Francesco" is Latin. Please distinguish between Italian and Latin. That should not be difficult who smugly boasts that he knows all the answers!

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 4th 2009, 11:38

@GiljanAgius.

Better still! From "sheep" to "agile gazelle" and now a "Nureyev"!

From baptism to confirmation, presumably under the guidance of our guardians we are taught languages, mathematics etc and, evidently with scant success in your case, also religion. The is called receiving an elementary education not ramming anything down our throats. Later you exercised your option to prefer the blasphemous vulgarity of carnival to religion. There is no comparison between receiving an education and blasphemously mocking the religious sentiments of others. If anything you stance would indicate a failure of basic education in all its civil aspects. There is no question as to which is more offensive than the other. As far as I am concerned one is offensive and the other is not.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 4th 2009, 06:52

@JoeXuereb

What do you mean exactly by the Church making "sexuality a strictly prescribed activity"? The Church does not "prescribe" that - and even if you meant to say "proscribe" the Church does not proscribe it either.

Alan Vella

Mar 3rd 2009, 20:46

Francis:
"I believe in Christ's injunction not to judge anyone lest I be judged myself."

Quote of the day.

Giljan Agius

Mar 3rd 2009, 20:29

actually frans, you haven't rebutted anything at all.. you are deftly dancing around the bush far better than any nureyev might have done..

I asked a simple question.. which is more offensive, at least from an objective point of view.. someone dressing up as a religious figure which has no more historical bearing than Titan, or having this so called factual religion rammed down your throat from the baptism to confirmation?

People are dressing up as J.C.. sure, they offend people, but many costumes offend people. Why should religion be more of an issue than something factual like say, elderly people, or whole races?

Joe Xuereb

Mar 3rd 2009, 19:04

Dear Francesco (you don't mind a bit of Latino do you - now that is the kind of question I limit myself to), I do not ask questions because I know all the answers. As I said, implied, some people need spoon-feeding, having done MY leap of faith made so much fall into place. Not from any book, not from any individual, not even from Richard Dawkin (Dawkins?). I am sure you have heard of 'people only use a fraction of their brain'. The true meaning of that has now sunk in. With me, that is. About our (well, my) Richard. He'll be my bedtime story one day - some people prefer fairy-tales - and he will not threaten me. I will not be arrogant and say I 'got there before him'. No, unbeknown to each other we travelled together. Our only commonality being that we both inhabit the same enlightened country, one that encourages questioning mindsets. Thanks Richard. At least you are still here and can be questioned. Unlike some fisherman turned author who has been dead and buried these last two thousand years.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 3rd 2009, 15:48

@JoeXuereb

Are you asking a question or are you making a statement? I believe in Christ's injunction not to judge anyone lest I be judged myself. I believe that that is also the official teaching of the Church. It is not the Church that consigns people to hell but it is the unrepentant sinner who does so.

Joe Xuereb

Mar 3rd 2009, 15:05

Man evolved into awareness and found 'erotic urges' painful and death even more so. Church teaching tapped into this and thought of a device whereby it could kill two birds with one stone. It made sexuality a strictly prescribed activity (unsustainable because nature dictates otherwise). The Church knew/knows this so it offered a carrot. Do as I say and I will promise you life everlasting. The sexual side of this conundrum is taken care of by the incessant vilification of sex, etc. The individual succumbs to this bombardment and learns to hate himself, his sexuality. Problem solved. But nature has other ideas. It will not take things lying down (amazing how sexuality throws up all kinds of innuendos, intended or not).
It alleviates the misery of the chastity belt wearer by providing the guilt, the hatred, the bigotry
safety-valves. From that day on, as they say, it has been history.
I know of Richard Dawkins but never read him. I have spent time at the British Library and various venues at London University (where some go on bursaries and come away still thick as planks). I glean info. here and there. Take the big leap and all follows suit.

Joe Xuereb

Mar 3rd 2009, 14:44

Friendly atheists are fine then. But friendly or hostile, they all go to hell, right?!

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 3rd 2009, 11:28

@Peter Pace & James Coleiro

If and when I feel that I am not in complete harmony with anything being done by the Church, its leaders and members of the clergy I raise the matter respectfully with the authorities concerned. I never provide ammunition for hostile atheists, lapsed Christians and practitioners of other religions.

Peter Pace

Mar 3rd 2009, 09:38

@Dr. F. Saliba

You have avoided the challenge. Did you ever criticise the church or its leaders or do you bow your head in blind obedience?

James Coleiro

Mar 3rd 2009, 07:27

@Francis Saliba

Looks like there is no collector's item after all.

In your eyes the church leaders and co are always right no matter what is said or done. If you love it this way enjoy it. As for the rest of us ,who do not believe in infallable people or absolutists, we will continue striving for a better life where common sense still prevails.

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 2nd 2009, 20:46

@GiljanAgius

Things are looking up. From being insulted as a sheep, now I have been promoted to an agile gazelle!

I have not dodged any arguments. I have rebutted them all, more than once, even tough they were the same monotonously repeated assertions by a succession of carnival revellers too selfish to demonstrate any respect for the feelings of others in their mad quest for revelry. But enough is enough.

The point at issue is not "dressing up as Christ" - and you know it. It is deliberately ridiculing Him during a blasphemous and vulgar carnival orgy. Your comments on this blog do not give any indication that anyone had successfully "force fed you any religious sentiments throughout your life" and that you had "no option" - quite the contrary in fact. You must have had an option and you have given incontrovertible proof that you have exercised it to your heart's content.

As a feast of civilised revelry Carnival would not be objectionable. Not so a mad degeneration into a frank display of blasphemous offensive uncivilised behaviour intended to outrage the religious sentiments of the majority in rebellious retaliation against a repudiated Christian education during one's formative years.

Robert Gatt

Mar 2nd 2009, 20:03

Alan, I have to admit I saw the latter part of your previous comment (the one before the last), concerning festas, only after I submitted my last comment. Regarding what you said on village feasts, I agree with you that nobody is expecting external celebrations in connection with village feasts be abolished simply because of traffic congestions or other inconveniences caused. If external celebrations are to be abolished they should be done away with for more serious reasons, including when parochialist revelry takes over the true spirit in which one should celebrate feasts. Bishop N.Cauchi, in a recent interview, has even described some of such external feasts as being Carnivalesque in the way they are celebrated. The point is this - everybody can expect that Carnival, village feasts, etc be celebrated with all the natural impacts that they bring with them - traffic congestions etc - yet nobody should be expected to accept that Carnival or village feasts be celebrated in a spirit of disrespect towards fellow citizens. I'm afraid, Alan, that not only urinating in public is illegal,but also making fun of Christian symbology. That said,be wary before saying that if one doesn't like it, he/she should stay away!

Giljan Agius

Mar 2nd 2009, 19:09

and with one fell swoop frans dodges all the arguments with the agility of a gazelle..

which is the more offensive, from an objective view point? Someone dressing up as Christ, or a whole society force feeding you their religion for your whole life, without having an option.. at least for the first, fifteen formative years?

which is the more offensive? a 3 day, self declared feast of madness and revelry.. or the mass force feeding of something as personal as a religious belief?

Dr Francis Saliba

Mar 2nd 2009, 17:50

@ JamesColeiro You have no chance of making me feel uncomforatable because you accuse me of quasi-dogma when I defend our Church and our bishops when they carry out their duty of combatting blasphemy, profanity, obscenity, and downright vulgarity. Perish any hope that I would ever dream of changing simply to meet with the approval of anyone who wallows in that kind of behaviour. I am glibly accused of being quasi-dogmatic but only by those who are unable to debate logically and to present calm and reasoned counter arguments. I do not accept Invective as a substitute for civil dialogue and I will no longer deign to respond to it.

Alan Vella

Mar 2nd 2009, 15:39

Robert: No one here is defending the urinating and throwing up on other people's private property. Having said that, I have sometimes found the front door of my house full of empty beer bottles and very dirty after the local marc tal-festa. Shall we ban the festa?

And you very conveniently avoided responding to my argument which mentions the other nuisances and grievances that the village festas, fireworks, early morning bells, open air concerts, etc ... cause. We have to put up with our local festa while you have to put up with the carnvial (which, at the end of the day, only takes place in Nadur so most people can avoid the carnival altogether).

Joe Xuereb

Mar 2nd 2009, 11:48

Of course urinating in public is 'not nice' but it is a minor problem that should be addressed and resolved. Carnival is about revelry, and drinking and the one occasion when working-class people can let their hair down. The same as any Carnival in Rio, London UK. Vibrant occasions which people look forward to and prepare for, every blessed year. The event in Venice is famous for its sophistication. There is money and class there. But I bet it attracts some hoi polloi too. To return to the accusation of indecency, I think that inappropriate dress by so many young and not so young women (and men presumably) throughout the year, anywhere, should also be addressed. But castigating all this, where will it all end. Money is important to Gozitans, as it is to everyone else, in order to survive. We kill the Turkey at Christmas time. The lamb at Easter. Birds thoughout the year. And now its the turn of the goose at Carnival time (at the risk of sounding patronising - which I never am - the expression is 'the goose that lays the golden egg').

James Coleiro

Mar 1st 2009, 21:14

@Francis Saliba

On the contrary to your false assertions I have not run out of logic or civil behaviour. Every single blog of yours defended the church, bishops, popes and clergy irrespective of the issue. Everyone who objected to your quasi-dogma was wrong except you. Point out one blog where you did not take the church's stand - it would really stand out as a collector's item.

As for your quote stating "As long as I can remember (and that probably means even before you were born) there were proclamations and regulations making it a punishable offence to behave offensively towards religion and other authorities during carnival" may I point put that even before then the church even put people to death. BUT TIMES HAVE MOVED ON..

Kurt Cassar

Mar 1st 2009, 17:18

It seems that people relieving themselves in the streets was one of the main things that irritated the Nadur residents - and obviously rightly so. I guess that much more portable toilets in every corner are needed next year then. Especially given the fact that almost all the establishment's toilets could not be used given that they were selling stuff from outside...

I guess the local council already took note of this....

Robert Gatt

Mar 1st 2009, 16:29

Alan Vella said:
"There is nothing wrong with carnival being vulgar. Some would argue that carnival is MEANT to be vulgar. If you think it's wrong, stay away."

My comment for your first sentence:
That's what YOU say.

My comment for your second sentence:
That's what THEY say.

My comment for your third sentence:
No further comment is needed!!!!

Robert Gatt

Mar 1st 2009, 16:22

@ Alan Vella:
Again you are totally being disrespectful for what many residents had to endure throughout the whole Carnival weekend with the odour of urine left by those who had the cheek not to make use of public conveniences present right at the other side of the street!!! So you are proposing to the Nadur residents just to stay away for the evening and that’s that? Perhaps you would have been kind enough to come and clean the totally disgraceful mess on the pavement and even on the side walls, left by these indecent people – whom I and other residents saw doing these things? Don’t you know that besides being indecent, these are breaking the law?? Don't you know that nowadays one gets a fine if he is caught throwing a chewing gum in the street?? Who breaks the law must be punished, and Carnival is no licence to whoever wants to break the law. That is what the bishop said. And that is what motivated many residents to complain and file in a police report! To say that many of them joined in the fun means that you are being totally insensitive and impertinent!!

Robert Gatt

Mar 1st 2009, 16:07

You are very wrong in saying that this year’s Nadur carnival was no different from the previous ones. Speak to the Nadur residents themselves and they will tell you that while the spontaneous carnival was renown for what many masquerades used to come up with, year in year out, – something which many would go to the Nadur carnival to specifically see and enjoy – yet in the last couple of years there were certain elements which were totally disgusting, and here I’m leaving aside the masquerades which expressively tried to ridicule my Christian faith and referring particularly to the obscene behaviour of those who transformed Nadur into a public convenience!!!

Giljan Agius

Mar 1st 2009, 14:42

@frans

it all boils down to this, I think. Many people give different weight to different things. You might give weight to religion and all its so called facts, i prefer others things. Bottom line: during a carnival, which traditionally has always been a feast of irreverence, one is always going to offend. You have been offended by Christ, I may not have liked people dressed up as old people, someone might have not liked the crass racial stereotyping, and so forth. Why do you consider your issue more important than others? Do you think then, that ALL offending costumes should be banned?

What shall people dress up then, not to offend? Zorro? Religion is just one of many things, just cause you and the majority give it a bloated importance, it doesnt make it more important than minority things.

And the good thing is, probably next year Christ cannot be stopped, because it is not illegal to wear a white robe and have natural long hair and bear during carnival. Right?

Kurt Cassar

Mar 1st 2009, 14:33

Things that are obvious in all of the comments made...

No open-minded person will be impressed by Mgr Mario Grech's comments.

The church needs to talk about the REAL issues if it wants to start being heard in the first place and gain the respect of new followers. People tend to think more about what they are told these days and 'the sheep' are becoming extint

The world is changing, the church is not. No wonder it is losing followers...
And for those who think that the church's attitude needs nothing changed.... you are destroying your own (and my) religion

Alan Vella

Mar 1st 2009, 11:14

AJ Vella:
"The human person, which deserves the utmost respect and dignity, was not treated like it should be. If you agree with ridiculing religion, how would you feel if a horde of peope ridiculed your very person?"

Ridiculing the human person? You mean to say that you yourself have been personally ridiculed? Or that the human species itself has been ridiculed? What are you on about? You don't even make sense.

Francis Saliba

Mar 1st 2009, 10:16

@WilliamPFlynn.
I have not "confessed" anything.

@JamesColeiro

I am not impressed by your argument that I am a sheep. Whenever a correspondent stoops to personal insults I take that as an admission that he has run out of logic and of civil behaviour. That is hardly surprising from those who would drag the figure of Christ down to the level of a carnival caricature for the sake of a few days of "vulgar" merriment. I would rather support a bishop rather than those who, proudly declare that their carnival is intrinsically "vulgar" (meaning "coarse" and "low") and who seem to be incapable of enjoying themselves without churlishly hurting the religious sentiments of others.

You are wrong when you state that the objection to carnival vulgarity and obscenity is only being raised now. As long as I can remember (and that probably means even before you were born) there were proclamations and regulations making it a punishable offence to behave offensively towards religion and other authorities during carnival.

AJ Vella

Mar 1st 2009, 09:48

To all the people who are not extremely religious;
I would like to point out that at the carnival, religion was not the only thing that was ridiculed. The human person, which deserves the utmost respect and dignity, was not treated like it should be. If you agree with ridiculing religion, how would you feel if a horde of peope ridiculed your very person?

James Coleiro

Mar 1st 2009, 09:06

@Francis Saliba

Your definition of vulgarity and those of others obviously differs.

Nonetheless the 'vulgarity'moans about an annual grotesque carnival only started now that the bishop spoke up. Obviously sheep like yourself (well known for his pro-church blogs) would have to back him up and support him irrespective of whether he is right or wrong. Maybe if anything this blog proves that times and attitudes are changing.....for the better.

William P Flynn

Mar 1st 2009, 02:07

@ Francis Saliba

Twice you have confessed to your logical fallacy in your argument comparing a carnival prank to murder.

Inaccuracy in confession is no confession at all. Your rhetorical fallacy was not an example of "reductio ad absurdum" but in fact just one of your frequent absurd extrapolations.

Please accept this short note as a small penance; as well as a good example of "reductio ad absurdum" (wrapped in a red herring) for future reference.

Robert Mifsud

Feb 28th 2009, 21:49

Prosit Mgr Mario Grech,somebofy has to put his foot down to these actions.I am far from a saint but its shameful that many young and not so young are carving their own god but ONLY ONE IS THE REAL GOD and His is Almight.Whatever we wish to do on earth passes but there is somewhere else for eternity,so think twice before you make fun of our own religion,its not a joke !

Alan Vella

Feb 28th 2009, 21:37

J.Borg:
"Why didn't the police take action there and then. These were breaking the law and going against public morals."

Why?

Because you do not break the law just by wearing robes in a street. Especially during carnival.

Because one is not going against public morals by dressing up as Christ, an apostle, priest or nun during carnival. Not everyone is as prude as you are.

Because most of the people were actually amused by the costumes and enjoying the party.

Because the police have far more important things to worry about.

Because it's 2009 not 1909.

Bottom line is: everyone knows what the atmosphere is like at the Nadur carnival. If you don't like it, stay away.

Alan Vella

Feb 28th 2009, 21:25

Robert Gatt said:
"The Bishop said that what happened in this year's Carnival was dishonourable towards Gozitan people, and rightly so, since this year's Nadur Carnival has reflected badly upon the trend which the Spontaneous Carnival has been renown for, especially in recent years."

This Nadur carnival has been NO different from the previous ones. I am actually starting to doubt if the bishop actually attended the carnival. But at the end of the day, the bishop is free to say what he likes as much as we are free to react to his comments.

Alan Vella

Feb 28th 2009, 21:18

Robert Gatt said:
"Provided that you admitted that the Nadur Carnival is vulgar and who doesn't like it should stay away, why don't you tell that to the residents of Nadur?" Should they stay away as well?"

No, actually they didn't stay away. Many of them joined in the fun. Seems like their religious sensibility is not so easily shakened as yours is. There is nothing wrong with carnival being vulgar. Some would argue that carnival is MEANT to be vulgar. If you think it's wrong, stay away.

If you're from Nadur and don't like the carnival than you can stay indoors or spend the evening somewhere else. This is what people who don't particularly enjoy their village festas do. I (along with many others) am not particularly keen on the traffic congestion that takes place all over the island during summer because of the festas. Shall we abolish festas too?

Open air concerts. They're loud and they can annoy the residents in around the venue. Shall we abolish them too?

Church bells in the early hours of the morning.

Fireworks.

The list goes on.

John A. Zammit

Feb 28th 2009, 21:11

I have been toying with the idea of commenting on this topic for the last couple of days. I have now decided to comment as much misinfromation has been spread. First of all,days before Carinval the Government Gazette published the Carinval Regulations which stipulate that during carnival religious, ecclesiastical, military and civil authorities cannot be offended. Secondly offending the religious sentiment of the Catholic faith is a breach of the Criminal Code. Therefore, it was the duty of the Police to stop these people from parading, similar to any other breach of the law. It must also be noted that the Catholic religion is the official religion of the State of Malta as stipulated by the Constitution; thus it follows that offending the Catholic faith amounts to blemishing our Constitution itself.

Alan Vella

Feb 28th 2009, 20:56

J.Bonnici:
"Dear Bishop,
There are other things that should have offended you more in Gozo but somehow they never do:
Massive VAT evasion
Massive tax evasion
Irregular building permits
Ugly apartments
A new Cemetery on rich agricultural land
The Hondoq project
The Ramla l-Hamra Project
The Cittadella car park
Unregulated hunting
Overcharging tourists (including the Maltese)
Abuse of social security

And there are more... "

I couldn't have put it better. It is safer for the church to pick on a couple of kids dressed up in robes than on the REAL issues facing this country ... halli ma nirfsu lil hadd.

This can be seen at a higher level: notice how weak and timid the opposition by the Vatican against the Iraq war was. Jesus would have certainly opposed ANY kind of war, including the Iraqi one. The Pope, with all the influence that he holds over millions of people all over the world, could have said and done so MUCH more about the whole affair. Why didn't he? Did he have any doubts on the (im)morality of the war? Or maybe he didn't want to get himself too dirty with a REAL issues.

Karl Consiglio

Feb 28th 2009, 20:44

Many seem unaware that for an atheist the concept of a God is on a par with praising some spaghetti monster in the sky, totally immoral, degrading to humanity and an insult to one's intelligence and worth taking the mickey out of, at least on this one occasion. Priests have the whole year round to carry on with their brain washing. These are not necessarily my views, but they definitely need to be taken into account.

k.grima

Feb 28th 2009, 20:35

all this debating is pointless because at the end of the day anyone dressing up as a religous figure will be fined. Is this seperation of state and religion? i don;t think so.
It's incredible that the catholic religion is held up as untouchable when it comes to comedy buty other religions are not, nor are politicians or other public figures.

MG Buttigieg

Feb 28th 2009, 20:29

I repeat nobody is allowed to expose himself or engage in illicit behaviour in public places. We can never allow that Nadur streets are a no go area during Carnival, grotesque or not grotesque. And again I have to repeat , nothing what so ever can ever justify the base behaviour of several revellers. Residents were forced to offer slops (pails for urine) since both the ladies and the gentlemen were relieving themselves on the streets in view of all. HOW CAN ONE CONDONE OR EXCUSE SUCH BEHAVIOUR. His Ecc. Was very much right when he said that Gozitan people were gravely injured in their pride.

Simon J. Aquilina

Feb 28th 2009, 19:07

@John Saliba
Nowhere in my comment did I say or accuse you of saying that Jesus or his message is Grotesque. What I did was ‘referring’ about the Nadur carnival being grotesque; I asked a ‘question’, to you and others, whether you believe the image of Christ to be in any way Grotesque or go well with such a theme. It was a question and not in any way accusing you in any way you said so! As for the other two times I already stated clearly that I do not feel the two statements are in anyway different – and gave you an example why not.

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 28th 2009, 18:30

@Giljan Agius

Where did you get the idea that the rest of us do not have some real fun without being directed by anyone or anything except our own good taste? We do not need vulgarity to satisfy us.

Adrian Archer

Feb 28th 2009, 17:21

I think all of this is quite amusing actually.

First i must point out that this is what carnival is all after all no? Still although carnival is about toppling all forms of decency, this shoudl be done in a spirit of good taste. Whether this fellow or group did this, i really don't care and i'd probably would have laughed at this.

Secondly, you can't stop the bishop in saying this. After all he is playing his role. Still i believe that whether you agree or not he still has the right to speak about this case. Then again, its your right to agree or to go out wear a costume of Christ next year :-).

Victor Borg

Feb 28th 2009, 15:34

The bishop is very wrong. Carnival has always been about the unruliness and the symbolic poking of two fingers at the establishment - it has been like that for hundreds of years, and it was the Catholic church in the Medieval Ages to allow it to be like that as an emotional release for the commoners before Lent.

I did a lot of research about this - know what I'm talking about: anyone who's interested can see an article of mine about this at http://www.victorborg.com/html/carnival_gozo.html

Marco Attard

Feb 28th 2009, 14:34

@MG Buttigieg

The place for children during the Carnival is Valletta or Rabat, not the NADUR SPONTANEOUS NIGHT CARNIVAL, which is pretty notorious for its revelry to begin with.

M buttigieg

Feb 28th 2009, 14:12

I have been going to the nadur carnival since i was 5 years old. the bishop has the right to talk for what he feels about people dressing up as the Risen Christ and others. the responsibility is in the police's hand to make sure that the maskarati are obeing the rules about how people should dress up. I remember that when there were people dreesed as nuns or preists the police didn't let them in. So what happened to these rules/laws that there used to be.

J.Borg

Feb 28th 2009, 12:44

Why didn't the police take action there and then. These were breaking the law and going against public morals.
So, you cannot wear a policeman's uniform in carnival, but this was left going.

Joseph Vella

Feb 28th 2009, 12:06

I am a Catholic, and dressing up as Jesus Christ for Carnival isn't something I would want to do. However I admit, If I seen someone dressing up as Mohammed I probably would have laughed, so I guess, as long as its for Carnival, there's nothing wrong with it. I still practice my religion and it did not affect me in no way (however personally I wouldn't even think of dressing up like that).

Christine Attard

Feb 28th 2009, 11:47

i think some are not understanding the bishop's words. He concemded that particular group who dressed as Our Lord. It does offend anyone who is a practising catolic. If such things wee done is some other religion these men would be hanged and we'd say well that's there religion. Its about time we stand up for our religion and condem what is wrong.

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 28th 2009, 11:36

@GiljanAgius

re your comment addressed to J Martinelii.

I know that it is one of the vulgarities associated with carnival to throw eggs at people and cover them with egg yolk. But for many, many thousands of Maltese the Catholic faith is a precious part of our culture and it is neither yolk nor yoke.

Etienne Vella

Feb 28th 2009, 10:58

@MG Buttigieg
"there was something very very wrong with the Nadur Carnival"

there was nothing very very wrong with Nadur Carnival this year that makes it any different from previous years - even if the bishop disagrees. Nadur Carnival is the most anticipated local event by most who attend (including myself) simply because of its unique spontaneous 'call it valgur' nature. As so many people pointed out to you - if you don't understand this, STAY AWAY - end of story

And another thing... Nadur Grotesque Carnival is defenitely not the place for children (let alone a handful of parents going round with push chairs). ALL other local carnival related events are for children (including most of Nadur's carnival program for the week). The Grotesque Nadur carnival is the only one that is not. Makes sense to keep it that way.

@Robert Gatt

"tell that to the residents of Nadur? Should they stay away as well?"

most did not. They were participating first-hand with their floats that make nadur carnival so uniue - and for this I respect them

John Busuttil

Feb 28th 2009, 10:48

@MG Buttigieg

I shudder to think what these children will grow up like. My 8 year old son can make a distinction between fooling about on Carnival and Lent.

As already pointed out some of the people dressed up not to the bishop's liking were locals from Nadur (hence at home). If you don't like it you don't have to attend. Has it been repeated enough for you to absorb?

Giljan Agius

Feb 28th 2009, 10:15

you people really really ought to learn to have some fun, real fun, not squeaky clean, church sanctioned and blindfold conservative fun.

But since you're very clearly not capable of doing so, please, let us have our fun. I do not complain w hen the church bells wake me up, I do not complain when feast petards go off at ungodly (tehehe) hours, i do not complain about the very very boring and very very loud processions littering our streets, I do not complain about the brainwashed hordes occupying streets come election time.. but hang on.. all of this loud, brash, unruly and uncivilized behaviour is legal, so it must be alright, yeah?

just let us have our 3 days of fun, please.

Joe Xuereb

Feb 28th 2009, 09:58

@ Joe Vella. I am sorry your ten-year old was terrified at last year's Nadur carnival. I remember some while back watch and taking photographs of the Holy Walk pagaentry. There was a man standing next to me with his toddler daughter on his shoulders. She was screaming her head off at the sight of all the very realistic statuary covered in blood and weals, and hearts transfixed - you get the picture. The father, very keen to introduce his child to her birthright, tried to assuage her terror by say: 'Le ħanini tibkix, il-Bambin iħobbok'. Surprise, surprise! The child looked confused and screamed some more.

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 28th 2009, 09:52

@GiljanAgius.

I am sorry to have to explain to you that, in so far as my opinion is concerned, you still have got it all wrong!

I object to the vilification of all religions without distinction because such boorish contempt for the religious sentiments of others is uncivil, illegal and unworthy of any genteleman. I specifically include most atheists among those gentlemen.

Good humoured caricature during carnival has been acceptable in civilised society for countless years. Not so the provocative and derogatory debasing of the divinity in its various forms according to different creeds. Gentelmanly atheists would instictively respect that as a convincing proof of their own civilised standard of behaviour.

MG Buttigieg

Feb 28th 2009, 09:28

Some of the contributors to this blog seem to have dug their feet deeply in the mud and refuse to admit that there was something very very wrong with the Nadur Carnival. Therefore as a last effort I would like to inform you that several parents who went up with their children to enjoy the carnival had to go away since the the antics and lack of dress of several revellers would be classified as adults reserved reserved reserved. AND ALL THIS WAS HAPPENING ON THE STREETS AND PIAZZAS OF NADUR.
THOSE AMONG YOU WHO THRIVE ON SUCH REVELLING PLEASE DO IT IN PRIVATE.

Peter Sammut

Feb 28th 2009, 09:09

The bishop has a right to express his feelings like any ordinary citizen. However frankly I don't care and neither do the thousands of people who attend year on year.

I think the bishop's comments were really intended to test the water.....evidently its getting very cold.

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 28th 2009, 08:55

@AlanAttard

As I have already explained to James Coleiro I compared the crime of the vilification of Christ to that of "murder" foe emphasis and as a "reductio ad absurdum" argument - my comparison is just as applicable to all other lesser transgressions of the law.

Please understand that your brash opinion that my comparison is "totally and utterly RIDICULOUS" does not necessarily make it so, even after it is typed in upper case.

Giljan Agius

Feb 28th 2009, 07:54

@frans Saliba

ah, so now we're getting something... the christ thing irks you cause of 1) the majority of the population is catholic and 2) cause it is illegal.. so if it were legal and it offended a minority, then it would be alright? You just proved my point. So offending other races (jews, blacks) and sexes (women) or elderly people is alright, (people dress up as women, old people, blacks, holocaust victims etc in nadur) because it is legal, and the other is not, just because of a man-made law. Puppets.

@martinelli

If only, IF ONLY, we were living in an agnostic society. But alas, we're still very much under the stifling yolk of this religion.

J Martinelli

Feb 27th 2009, 23:35

Goes to show you how the State and the Church, have over time, been worrying more about earthly problems than about common decency and respect to traditional faith.

Reading some comments below makes one think that we have become an agnostic society having abandoned the Christian faith.

And only three weeks ago, we celebrated the feast of 'Missierna San Pawl'.

Hard to believe!

Robert Gatt

Feb 27th 2009, 22:14

@ Alan Vella:
Provided that you admitted that the Nadur Carnival is vulgar and who doesn't like it should stay away, why don't you tell that to the residents of Nadur? Should they stay away as well?The Bishop said that what happened in this year's Carnival was dishonourable towards Gozitan people, and rightly so, since this year's Nadur Carnival has reflected badly upon the trend which the Spontaneous Carnival has been renown for, especially in recent years. It is not fair that genuine complaints by the residents of Nadur themselves, and also by those of other respectful people, are met with these comments motivated by those who wish to celebrate in every way they wish while disregarding the way their behaviour impinges upon society. If you want to earn respect, respect others as well!

Alan Vella

Feb 27th 2009, 18:06

Simon J. Aquilina :

During summer Malta is dotted with feasts and fireworks. This often causes traffic congestion - a major nuisance to many people. We also get to hear fireworks throughout the day and sometimes also loud bells during the morning. Hell, in some villages you also have the rosary blared out on speakers in the streets during some parts of the year.

Shall we abolish everything that might insult or annoy some group of people?

Alan Vella

Feb 27th 2009, 17:43

Joseph R Aquilina:
No one is asking the bishop to shut up. People are just reacting to what he said. Hadd mhu qed issiket lil hadd. I am not against people expressing their disgust at someone dressing up as Jesus during carnival. We can all say what we feel. I am against not being allowed to dress up as Jesus (or a politician or anyone else) during carnival just because it might hurt someone's feelings. Jekk noqghodu sejrin hekk hadd ma jilbes ta' xejn.

Dressing up as Jesus in carnival might not be tasteful and you might not find it funny. Fine. But that still shouldn't stop anyone else from doing it if he/she wants to during carnival.

Dr Francis Saliba said:
"Not comparing "Carnival attire" with "murder " at all. The comparison is between murder and the dragging of the figure of Christ, the revered founder of Christianity, down to the level of a mocked carnivalesque figure."

Francis, that argument is still totally and utterly RIDICILOUS. There is NO comparison between murdering someone and using the figure of Christ as a carnival figure. When you write such nonesense you are sounding no different from a Muslim fanatical extermist.

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 27th 2009, 17:22

@AlanVella

Since you admit that this carnival was VULGAR ,and since you approve it, may I ask if there is any room left for common decency in your lexicon? Please understand that common decency is not the prerogative of my religion, of any other religion or of any atheistic conviction - it is a precious attribute of all civil society.

What on earth do you mean by the Church "whinging" - is that some new word? Consult any good dictionary and you would learn that "vilification" (apart from defamation), means also "degrading" and "debasing". Anyone masquerading as Christ during a carnival that you yourself admit was "VULGAR" would definitely be aiming to degrade and to debase Christ himself and committing a deliberate offensive outrage against his followers.

JP Stivala

Feb 27th 2009, 17:19

It is the fourth year I have been to Nadur for carnival. Each time has been excellent, it's great to see us youth come together peacefully to celebrate the joy of life. I was happy to see how creative the costumes are. Seeing someone people dressed up as our favorite holy idols only makes me smile and gives me a good feeling inside. I wish more people tried to live like Jesus for just a single day.

On another note: personally, although I enjoy tradition the representation of Christ in some local feasts like the Redentur whereby Jesus just is dripping of blood makes me feel guilty and bad inside. So I kind of avoid those sort of events, and I don't complain. I just avoid the feast if I don't enjoy it. That simple.

By the way my favorite feast is "irxoxt". That feast is great for obvious reasons.

Peace.

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 27th 2009, 16:50

@GiljanAgius

I have no illusions about all Maltese being practicing Catholics - that is your invention. I had guessed, correctly it seems, that you want to relegate any strictures about blasphemous offensive behaviour to a remote judgement at the end of time and only because you do not believe that there is no such judgement! What a cosy arrangement!

I do not want to stop your "right to do anything which MIGHT offend". My objection is that anyone would pretend to have the right to do anything which is so manifestly offensive to the majority of the Maltese that it is actually illegal. The costumes from ancient Rome or Greece that you mention do not offend anyone. But dragging the figure of Christ down to the vulgar atmosphere of this carnival is actually offensive to all Christians here and abroad. There is a law against it and those of your frame of mind should not expect to be allowed to flout it with impunity.

J.Bonnici

Feb 27th 2009, 16:37

Dear Bishop,
Jesus would have had a good laugh had he been there.
There are other things that should have offended you more in Gozo but somehow they never do:
Massive VAT evasion
Massive tax evasion
Irregular building permits
Ugly apartments
A new Cemetery on rich agricultural land
The Hondoq project
The Ramla l-Hamra Project
The Cittadella car park
Unregulated hunting
Overcharging tourists (including the Maltese)
Abuse of social security

And there are more...

J.Pulis

Feb 27th 2009, 16:35

I agree 100% with the bishop. May God bless you and your work.

K. Vella

Feb 27th 2009, 15:59

Grandmaster Lascaris' spirit seems to be alive and well.

John Saliba

Feb 27th 2009, 15:51

@Simon J. Aquilina

You persist in inventing things that I never said (3rd time already) - Where did I say that Jesus or his message is grotesque??? Are you unable to comprehend the written word or what?? I said that "the Nadur Carnival theme is that of a 'grotesque carnival'"

If someone finds this form of carnival offensive they should stay away and let thousands who obviously like it to do so in peace.

Simon J. Aquilina

Feb 27th 2009, 15:23

@John Saliba,
I am not taking refuge; I am just showing you (and maybe others) that your reasoning “stay away if you don’t like it” is flawed. Although I could take your advice and avoid Nadur during carnival, some people actually don’t have that advantage! Additionally you cannot compare a mass-meeting with the carnival. I think the time at which the carnival is held is different than that of the mass meeting and the time span also various! Finally, referring to your last comment; so you think that the figure and message of Jesus Christ is grotesque? I guess you agree that some may find such a statement a little bit offensive!

d.attard

Feb 27th 2009, 15:22

When I read things like ‘the dictatorship of relativism’ I feel negativity towards democracy.

Even worse, is a dictatorship of the Catholic absolute being proposed as a national alternative?

The perceived concentrated attack on tolerance within established democratic principles seems to have become the 'political' bottom line of Maltese religion.

If so, may I say that it much disturbs me.

In the meantime I feel that when in rome do as the romans do. I do not think it right taking the micky out of something that some of the locals consider to be sacred.

Joseph R Aquilina

Feb 27th 2009, 15:15

Too many of the responses seem to be based on an antic-clerical attitude. They are just riling becasue the Bishop expressed an opinion.That is too facile and spineless an approach. Forget the religious element of it. It is just the sheer crass bad taste of it all. There is no humour in the whole thing. Points are won on the shockability of the presenttaion, dead animals, etc. Hopefully, no foreign TV statiion will record the depths to which we Maltese and Gozitans can sink to, because that would seriously damage our tourism. Rememeber the bird carnage scare? and its after effects on the international scene? As for the Bishop - he has had the courage to be a bishop. Well done. I nearly said God bless the Bishop but that could have reduced my civilian credenials, so let me say it in acceptable laymen's terms: God save the Bishop.

Alan Vella

Feb 27th 2009, 15:12

Francis:

Yes, the Nadur carnival IS vulgar - if you don't like it, stay away. You are free to practise your religion as others are free to dress up of whomever they like. No one is impinging on anyone's freedom.

I never said that you wrote about an "insecure Church" - it was myself who pointed out that the Church makes itself look insecure about itself when it whinges and whines over such petty matters.

I don't consider the act of dressing up like Christ during carnival as the vilification of his name. Vilification means defamation. Christ is not being vilified/defamed by anyone who dresses up like him. I would hope that it would take much more than that to vilify Christ. I would hope that he is not so insecure about himself as you make him out to be.

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 27th 2009, 15:07

@JamesColeiro

Not comparing "Carnival attire" with "murder " at all. The comparison is between murder and the dragging of the figure of Christ, the revered founder of Christianity, down to the level of a mocked carnivalesque figure.

In any case, my argument is a classical "reductio ad absurdum".

Giljan Agius

Feb 27th 2009, 15:05

To francis Saliba.

First of all once again you are making the common mistake of assuming that every maltese is a catholic. Do not assume that just cause I mentioned judgment day.. i mentioned that just because you catholics believe in it, and supposedly believe in the path which J.C took, back in the day. Secondly, the murder analogy is ridicolous at its very best.. if i murder someone, regardless whether or not i believe in judgment day, I've taken a life, I've done physical wrong which can be seen and will be missed.

On the other hand, if you want to stop the right to do anything which MIGHT offend, then, we could carry this all the way you know.. There were costumes of people dressed up as hideous old people. There were costumes of people dressed up as Roman or Greek gods, like Pan, or Bacchus.. why not ban those? After all, both their and the country's religion are not exactly factual, but rather, based on mythologies, thousands of years old.. why not ban everything then? Why is yours so special just cause it has the majority?

H Gatt

Feb 27th 2009, 15:04

@Patrick A. Spiteri:
I am in denial of nothing. In Superfantozzi (as in the rest of the Fantozzi series) we laugh at Fantozzi and the situations he finds himself in and not at Jesus. That Fantozzi was crucified instead of Jesus in that movie is irrelevant as in the end the joke is still on Fantozzi.

H Gatt

Feb 27th 2009, 15:02

@Giljan Agius:
Simply criticising or voicing one’s opinion does not amount to lynching. The Bishop simply exercised the democratic right to freely express himself about a situation in which Jesus was made the butt of a joke. Irrespective of whether one agrees with him or not, it is natural in any democratic society that one freely expresses his or her views and that a debate takes place. Despite our opposing viewpoints I never called you names and I never told you to shut up. Ironically, of all the people who commented on this article in the past 2 days, both for and against the Bishop’s comments, you are the one who practically proposes lynching of those who disagree with you in one of your last posts where you made it clear what you expect Christians to do in life - simply shut up and be run over! In a democratic society that is unacceptable!

I agree perfectly with you when you wrote that Jesus is ‘the most forgiving person in history’. Therefore why we should laugh at Him (along with people such as Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi whose contribution to humanity is priceless) is beyond me!

John Saliba

Feb 27th 2009, 14:59

Stephen J. Aquilina

Ahh!!! So now you take refuge behind the people who live at Nadur and arguably do not like the type of carnival. Nice try.

A good point was made by James Coleiro - what would half the population of a village do if a political party they do not support organised a mass meeting or a weekend of political activities in their town/village etc? Either accept it for what it is or stay away if you don't like what you are seeing or the messages you will be hearing.

The Nadur Carnival theme is that of a 'grotesque carnival' unlike the Venice you continue to quote. If one does not like this theme - let the thousands who enjoy it do so in peace.

James Coleiro

Feb 27th 2009, 14:49

@Francis Saliba

Your quote: Do you seriously expect that society should tolerate and wink at murder simply because there will be a later judgement day before Christ? Could anything be more ridiculous than that argument?

Only one really - comparing Carnival attire to murder.

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 27th 2009, 14:41

@AlanVella

I am not writing about any "defamation" of any "insecure" Church. I am protesting about the unnecessary mocking of the figure of Christ and for no better reason than that of having some vulgar and obscene merriment during the Nadur carnival. There is no justification to plead, as you did, that this was done by "kids", by a "couple of nobodies dressing up" as Christ. You give the unmistakeable impression that you condone and approve the vilification of Christ by these "evil immoral scoundrels" again quoting you.

Please note that I did not claim any gentlemanly feelings for myself. I deplore the total absence of any gentlemanly behaviour in those who have no respect for the religious sentiments of others.

Alfred Grixti

Feb 27th 2009, 14:29

The modern concpet of liberty, as expounded by John Stuart Mill in his treatise "On Liberty", is based on the concept that one's freedom to do whatever one likes is limited only to one's not impinging on or harming the freedom of another person. I strongly believe in the separation between Church and State and I also stronlgy believe in a secular State based, as modern European states are, on Mill's concept of liberty. This does not, however, give anyone the unbridled liberty or licence to offend the sentiments or values of Maltese and Gozitan Catholics. Or do the Maltese and Gozitan Cahtolics have to start issuing fatwas and / or demanding that people recant their statements, as many Europeans do to those who deny the holocuast, in order to make it very clear that their sentiments have been offended?

Simon J. Aquilina

Feb 27th 2009, 14:11

@John Saliba,
So should those people from Nadur that agree with the opinion of the bishop “stay away” from their homes during the carnival weekend? Personally I do not see a difference between the two statements; having to stay away from a place, which on any other occasion I can go at my pleasure, because otherwise I can get harmed is still a bad thing. For all intents and purposes I could have gone to Nadur, and had to “leave” because some people thought that making fun of my religion is fine!

Additionally it is not true that with this line of reasoning carnival should be called off. Further down I put a link that describes the WORLD-FAMOUS carnival of Venice. We should aim to have our carnival (whether in Nadur or any other location) to be on the level of such high prestige carnival and not reduced to a street party.

MG Buttigieg

Feb 27th 2009, 14:11

Dear Ramon Borg
If by using the word inflammatory you mean that the Bishop`s words were provocative well yes I agree with you. He is fulfilling his role as leader. He is prodding us all to reflect on the way our life is taking. It is provocative because it is prodding the baptised of this land to question the depth of their faith. It is provocative because it is throwing a spotlight on the moral fibre of our society.
BUT if by inflammatory you mean that His Ecc. is inciting to hate you are very very wrong. His call is to all the baptised to restore their personal relationship with Christ. That is what our faith is all about. IT IS NOT ABOUT PROHIBITIONS AND RITUALS. Many in this blog have shown that their understanding of Religion is so much.
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6).
In the end everybody is free to reject this relationship with Christ. BUT nobody has the right to ridicule those who who chose to live their faith.

T.gauci

Feb 27th 2009, 14:07

@Giljan Agius

you said that you felt offended when someone made fun of your black race, so why catholics should not feel offended too ? don't think that i am a catholic in fact i am an agnostic and i support the people who make fun of anything regardless religions,politics,races but one have the right to stand up for his beliefs as long as he/she don't shut other people's mouth

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 27th 2009, 14:06

@GiljanAgius

Apart from judgement day before Christ - since you mention it I must assume that you believe that there will be such a day - there are also the laws of the land that must be observed. One does not eliminate the other. Do you seriously expect that society should tolerate and wink at murder simply because there will be a later judgement day before Christ? Could anything be more ridiculous than that argument?

If you really knew your bible you would know that Christ required that we acknowledge Him here on earth. We do not do that by disrespectfully mocking Him in the Nadur carnival. I am not "lynching" anybody by expecting that He, and the sentiments of Christians, be respected and not mocked during vulgar carnival celebrations

James Coleiro

Feb 27th 2009, 13:52

@J.Martinelli

It seems that we can only agree to disagree.

My excuse is far from lame, especially in view of many comments made on this blog. This is just the case (as has been for the last few years) where 'catholic' people dress up innocently like certain catholic religious figures all in good humour.

Unfortunately since the present Bishop does not share in this humour, his hardliners are forced to tow the line in the hope of finding salvation.

I repeat religious figures have been featuring in the Nadur Carnival for years now. Obviously none of the pro church bloggers go to (or have ever been to) Paceville during Carnival. Last year's 'religious' costumes in Paceville would make Nadur look pale in comparison.

The point made is simple and comparable to a mass meeting held by the political party one does not support - if it offends you don't go.

Simple enough?

R. Attard

Feb 27th 2009, 13:49

The statements by the Gozo Bishop remind me of the protests done by the Muslims regarding the infamous cartoon of the prophet Mohammed.

Are we going to turn into that?

Giljan Agius

Feb 27th 2009, 13:38

and for the record.. jews making fun of themselves is not a rarity, just watch an early woody allen film and you'll see that in all its artistic glory..

+ comparing your religion to other religions, the argument 'if this was done in saudi, bla bla bla' is pointless. Because you catholics pride yourselves upon having the more tolerant religion, you scorn muslim fundamentalism (rightly so) and adopt the holier than thou stance at every half chance, but then, when some thing, even as minor as a carnival dress up, comes by in your backyard, you're the first who point their fingers and reach for the nearest stone..

pharisees.

Patrick A. Spiteri

Feb 27th 2009, 13:17

@Giljan Agius

Unlike H.Gatt, I see your point completely.

Fantozzi was crucified instead of christ and in the same manner and trying to justify that film by stating that Fantozzi represented Fantozzi is denial of the meaning behind it. However, since no one from the clergy pressed the 'offend' button on the remote control no one spoke up against the movie....or maybe the clergy then had a better sense of humour than today.

@Francis Saliba

So according to you the police should arrest anyone dressed in a robe next time around just in case they even remotely represent an apostle or disciple or christ himself? With your utter nonsense we could also arrest angels on Valentines day. I think the point has been made enough in this blog: If one is a prude (religious or otherwise) do not go to carnival parades.

As for the bishop, he has every right to speak, but judging by the replies on this blog it was a faux pas. Gone are the days when the church held the entire population in its hands like puppets.

J Martinelli

Feb 27th 2009, 13:11

@ James Coleiro

If it is illegal to make anti-Semitic jokes, why should it be permissible to make fun of the Catholic religion? Two weights and two measures?

Jews making fun of themselves? Hardly an argument here since making fun of 'themselves' does not imply that they make jokes about their religion - two distinct situations. However, having said that, I know very few Jewish jokes and none were coined by Jewish people, same as a lot of Polish jokes which would land me in trouble if I repeat them in the presence of a Pole.

With regard to the last paragraph outlining your lame excuse of Catholics making fun of their own Catholic religion, still does not hold any water and judging from the many comments here, one could deduce that there is now a significant minority which has abandoned the traditional faith in exchange for some worldly fun at the expense of decorum and respect to their fellow citizens and loyalty to the Catholic Church.

John Saliba

Feb 27th 2009, 13:01

@Simon J. Aquilina


Wrong - Staying away (not to be harmed) and being asked to leave are not the same thing.

If we follow your lead that you have a right to go to Nadur and not have your feelings harmed we must extend this to the entire population - that should have the right to go to Nadur (being a public area) and expect that their feelings (whether big or small) are not harmed in any way.

With this twisted line of reasoning we can call off Carnival altogether because someone will invarably have their feelings (whether big or small) harmed.

What is the alternative to calling off Carnival? In my view if someone like you is so touchy and does not want to be harmed, stay away out of harms way.

Finally if you are in favour of a secular government, I am the Emperor Constantine of Byzantium.

Alan Vella

Feb 27th 2009, 12:41

Dr Francis Saliba:
"As regards your gratuitous advice for me to stay away from the obscenities at the last Nadur carnival I prefer that the police do their duty by enforcing the law regarding the vilification of religion."

Vilification of religion? Do you honestly believe the Jesus has been vilified by a couple of nobodies dressing up in robes?? Is the Church so insecure about itself that it feels defamed by such things? In that case I'm amazed at how it manages to get through all the criticism that gets thrown at it these days ...

"There are innocent jokes about religious figures that make you smile. There are others, such as the Nadur carnival that are a calculated as a deliberate affront and to make decent people retch."

No Francis, they are not a deliberate affront to the Church. They are just kids dressed up as Jesuses. Many people find it funny. If it makes you retch than you can stay away from Nadur during carnival. Thus your gentlemanly feelings will not be hurt and you can leave it up to Jesus to judge these evil immoral scoundrels.

jane camilleri haber

Feb 27th 2009, 12:14

It's a shame that today's generation lacks ethical finesse and a sense of propriety. the fact that people are not able to make a difference between a theme which lends itself properly for a 'buffunata' to another which belonjgd to a creed and an inspiring spirit for Love hope and direction is nothing but regress and the dismantling of culture

Giljan Agius

Feb 27th 2009, 11:58

hey.. why don't you just stay quiet, and let Jesus himself judge these persons after they die, huh? Isn't that what he would have done? He let an entire mob nail him to a tree rather than protest.. so why don't you follow his example instead of lynching someone who dressed up as the most forgiving person in history?

let jesus judge.

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 27th 2009, 11:47

@JamesColeiro

As regards your gratuitous advice for me to stay away from the obscenities at the last Nadur carnival I prefer that the police do their duty by enforcing the law regarding the vilification of religion.

There are innocent jokes about religious figures that make you smile. There are others, such as the Nadur carnival that are a calculated as a deliberate affront and to make decent people retch.

Irrespective of his/her own religious beliefs, or absence thereof, it is the hallmark of any true gentleman (or lady) to show elementary respect for the beliefs of others. No true gentleman would stoop to degrade himself by endorsing the illegal vilification of religion just for the sake of having selfish and demeaning fun. If he does not have have the self respect necessary to behave in a civilised inoffensive way, within the law, then it is up to the upholders of the law to enforce it.

Alan Vella

Feb 27th 2009, 11:28

If Jesus has the same sense of (lack of) humour as most of you people commenting here than I'm not sure whether I want to spend an eternity in heaven with Him (and the likes of you).

Simon J. Aquilina

Feb 27th 2009, 11:25

@John Saliba,
The meaning of “If people like the bishop do not have a sense of humor or are offended the solution is simple - stay away” remains the same “if you do not like it leave” Therefore I should have the right to go to Nadur (being a public area) and expect that my religious feelings (whether big or small) are not harmed in any way. If this was a private party organized on private property then you would might (highly debatable) have an argument. Additionally I wanted to point out that I am also for a secular government however that does not mean that such government should not be based on good principles, taking in consideration all minority and majority groups in the society it was elected to lead.

Miriam Ellul

Feb 27th 2009, 11:24

@Ian C. Ellul
I absolutely agree with you.

Can someone tell me, what excitement there is, in seeing a person dressed as Jesus Christ? Is that all the creativity and art that some people contain? This is ridiculous!! I don't like Carnival but I cannot speak for myself because there are people who love it and after all it is a tradition. I would like to see changes for better outcome or at least let it remain as it was in the past days.
Where is the traditional humor? Carnival used to be humorous and I agree that there is quite a difference between humorous and ridicule. Certain people do not know that there is a limit for jokes and mockery and that others may be offended.......or they don't know that there is a difference between ridicule and humor ...........or they just don't care!!!!!!

H Gatt

Feb 27th 2009, 11:20

@Giljan Agius:
Since you feel so superior to ‘us’ sheep please correct me if I’m wrong, but, as far as I know, Jesus Christ’s was not the only crucifixion in history. In fact, crucifixion was the death penalty in Jesus’ day. In ‘Superfantozzi’ (a wonderful movie by the way) Paolo Villaggio plays Fantozzi and not Jesus, so I cannot see your point. I don’t consider myself to be at all superior to anyone, not least intellectually, but if I wanted to do so I would have certainly name-dropped some obscure French art-house movie that few people have seen rather than a comedy classic like ‘Life of Brian’.

As for your other assumption that most of ‘us’ just obey blindly, well, we don’t! In today’s society it’s much easier to conform and go with the flow rather than stick to one’s religious beliefs and principles thereby endure constant ridicule at the hands of people like you as is happening on this post. I have been questioning my faith all my life and it has only made my admiration for Jesus Christ and His teachings stronger!

Ramon Borg

Feb 27th 2009, 11:17

This is a very interesting blog that reflects current societal trends.

On one side we have the usual people who follow their master's voice.....in the hope of finding salvation.

However I have never witnessed such religious indifference (and in the case of these blogs dissent!).

Funnily enough last (Ash) Wednesday I had to meet a foreign client at a restaurant at Sliema for a drink. In spite of the rain, this restaurant was pretty packed with Maltese watching the Champions league on the big screens. I noticed that most of the food ordered was meat based and the wine and beer was flowing.

Maybe we should ban restaurants from serving meat on religious days as well because it will offend religious sentiments of the bishop and his merry men and women(sic).

What Mgr. Grech doesn't realise is that with inflammatory remarks he will only turn indifference to hatred against the institution and accelerate the inevitable decline.

B Agius

Feb 27th 2009, 10:52

Judging by the huge number of bloggs hereunder one can get an idea what really upsets Maltese people (or at least those bothering to join in here). No wonder the joke still is around : what makes a Maltese cross? It's this sort of "iconic" stuff that raises interest in Maltese? I don't remember too many bloggs when the bishop of Gozo actively hid under the carpet the issues raised regarding child abuse by nuns (for example). We didn't see his nice picture attached to any story then. And no action was taken. A case of "keeping your dirty linen hidden"No - that was too controversial and didn't give him a chance to have a go at others in the usual sanctimonous but anachronistic Maltese (or is it Gozitan?)way. The "anything goes" culture goes both ways. The Church however picks what it likes and some Maltese just follow.

Charles Agius

Feb 27th 2009, 10:37

@ALEX FARRUGIA

You hit the nail on the head. Some people writing these blogs have got offended only because the bishop got offended. Really the case of the blind following the blind.

Alex Vella Gera

Feb 27th 2009, 10:35

This endless stream of comments (and the Bishop's statement to go with it) are ample evidence of what's wrong with Malta.

Paul Cini

Feb 27th 2009, 10:24

Congratulations to Bishop Mario Grech for condemning this insulting act at the Nadur Carnival.My full support to him.But those who were there to see that no law is broken,were present or not?Are the Nadur Council aware of what is happening at this shameful Carnival nights?The Nadur people,being so proud of their village,should show that they do not agree with what is happening!They should follow the civil steps of the organizers of the capital Victoria,and of Xewkija,Qala,Sannat and other villages holding this activity!Again well done Mgr. Grech and my full support to you!
Civilized,Fontana.

Giljan Agius

Feb 27th 2009, 10:22

exactly, alex farrugia.. maltese people have been brought up in the sheep mentality.. they learned the one religion in their infancy, and they militantly defend it to the very end without questioning.. when something from the establishment provides them with something which would otherwise be considered profane, such as fantozzi, they laugh at it, indeed, they namedrop life of brian to appear intellectually sound with their friends... but then, the bishop mutters something and their sheep mentality rears its ugly head and blindfoldedly they agree, agree agree agree agree

Paul Cini

Feb 27th 2009, 10:22

Congratulations to Bishop Mario Grech for condemning this insuting act at the Nadur Carnival.My full support to him.But those who were there to see that no law is broken,were present or not?Are the Nadur Council aware of what is happening at this shameful Carnival nights?The Nadur people,being so proud of their village,should show that they do not agree with what is happening!They should follow the civil steps of the organizers of the capital Victoria,and of Xewkija,Qala,Sannat and other villages holding this activity!Again well done Mgr. Grech and my full support to you!

MG Buttigieg

Feb 27th 2009, 10:06

Dear Kenneth
who says it was harmless fun when as evidenced from this blog the feelings of thousands of Maltese people (and here I am not differentiating between Maltese living in Gozo and Maltese living in Malta) have been hurt??!!
It is about values!!! When these are swept aside there are no limits.
N.B. everybody is mentioning the raffiguration of Christ but rest assured that other even more offensive behaviour took place but I will not go into details. The obscenities perpetrated were real.

Alex Farrugia

Feb 27th 2009, 09:48

@H.Vella

Rather than the life of Brian I prefer to consider Fantozzi - that I assume 75% of the Maltese saw at some time or other. In the film SuperFantozzi, Fantozzi is portrayed in a surreal historical journey, from Genesis to 1980s. It includes a crucification of Fantozzi.

I don't recall any 'bible bashers' slashing their wrists or call for the film to be banned or cry foul as they have done since the bishop spoke up.

I rest my case

Paul Zammit

Feb 27th 2009, 09:47

@ MG Buttigieg

I agree fully with you MG Buttigieg. If we give vent to our whims and pleasures only, this will be at the detriment of the person.... i.e. you and me and even of Mr. Alan Vella!!!!!

The world is still running because there are more persons who value principles than persons who do what they want when they want it..... condoning their actions under 'liberty' 'open mindedness' 'unbrainwashed by the church' etc. etc.

Thanks MG Buttigieg and all others who value their good principles.

R. Azzopardi

Feb 27th 2009, 09:39

I can understand the Bishop's concerns fully, however I'm sure that Christ Himself has a great sense of humour and can laugh off foolish acts such as this. Something else concerns me more though. I myself have never been to the Nadur carnival however I've heard that there have been times when poor defenceless animals have been tortured and killed during carnival. This year I heard of somebody who paraded the streets with dead skinned rabbits. This is downright deplorable.

@Alan Vella
I agree with you fully. After all, Jesus Christ was a human being like every one of us and I'm sure that he would have enjoyed the odd bottle of beer with his friends. If you watched "The Passion of the Christ" there was a scene that brought a smile to my face. It was the scene in which Jesus was washing his hands before having lunch with his mother and he splashed water at her and laughed heartily. We seem to keep forgetting that Christ was in fact one of us and He must have behaved like us too. I'm sure He had His funny side.

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 27th 2009, 09:39

@AlexanderDarmanin

If you are correct that this is a case of kids expressing themselves in a creative way and that by ridiculing Him in a carnival that is an acceptable way of showing their "fondness for Christ" , then the sooner someone takes their education in hand the better for all concerned. If everything alse fails, I would suggest the police taking action for the vilification of religion.

Reading the whole of your comment I am not convinced that "showing a fondness for Christ" and Christianity does not occupy a high priority in your estimate!

they are showing their fondness for Christ is to ridicule Him in carnival

James Coleiro

Feb 27th 2009, 09:28

@J. Martinelli

As you should be aware, it is illegal to make anti-semetic jokes. However it is quite acceptable for the Jews to make these jokes about themselves.

Transposing this to Malta's case, such humour would not be out given that it is Catholics with Catholics dressing up as religious figures.

@Francis Saliba et al

If for no other reason, seeing that you are so offended by anyone dressing up as a religious figure, could you please consider (if you actually do) not attending the Nadur carnival and hence not get your feelings offended in any way - that it is only decent behaviour to respect for the feelings of others who enjoy carnival.

Kenneth Cassar

Feb 27th 2009, 09:21

@ MG Buttigieg:

Get real! Since when did atrocious murders have anything to do with 3 or 4 days of harmless fun? If anyone feels ridiculed by parody, perhaps he deserves the ridicule.

Keep lent Catholic...but keep Carnival secular.

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 27th 2009, 09:13

@MarieMuscat

The fundamental difference is in the intention of those participating in religious processions and those taking part in a carnival. The former are showing respect to their own religion in their own harmless way and without offending anyone. The latter were deliberately being provocatively offensive, poking fun and knowingly insulting the religious sentiments of others. In my opinion they are also breaking the law and if so this should be enforced.

Your own assessment of what is "cheesy" and "kitsch" in religious and pagan celebrations does not impress those who only expect a minimum decent standard of courteous, civil and non-offensive behaviour. Please, think twice before stooping to pour scorn and pity on others who may have different assessments of artistic standards.

nevil debattista

Feb 27th 2009, 09:11

@Charmaine Chetcuti
Dear Charmaine, I am not a religous person at all as my friends and all those who know me will tell you but I would never stoop so low as to justify the callous deeds of those who try to ridicule the Risen Christ be it carnival or any other day whatsoever. Creativity has nothing to do with all this.

Michael Grima

Feb 27th 2009, 09:11

Only singlemost fact that emerges from this blog clear for all to see.

Gone are the days when the Bishops would speak and everyone would just swallow their tongue and bow to their views.

It looks like church support is far from what it used to be.

John Saliba

Feb 27th 2009, 09:08

@Simon J. Aquilina

Once again read my blog before flying off to a tangent.

I never wrote if you don't like it. What I wrote was "If people like the bishop do not have a sense of humour or are offended the solution is simple - stay away".

Have you ever been to a 'Zoo' show? They make fun of everything. If you can't stomach don't go.

Government sponsored church dictatorship is not an exaggeration. Governments have been living in fear of the church...although this is now starting to backfire in some voter patterns. When we finally have a secular government things may change (for the better).

Let us see whether in future Carnivals the police will be instructed to fine or arrest people remotely dressed as an apostle or christ figure.

Paul Vella

Feb 27th 2009, 09:03

MG Buttigieg

You hit the proverbial nail on the head. Unfortunately, with the 'anything goes' culture that is becoming more evident in our society, THAT's what we are heading for.

Joanne Ellul

Feb 27th 2009, 08:54

@George Cremona

I never used the word 'moral wrongs'. This is your erroneous interpretation. What is morally wrong for you does not fit my definition. I see nothing wrong in someone dressing up in a christ or apostle or buddhist costume. This should be treated for what it is - Carnival.

@C.Busuttil

Again, with respect, you are detached from reality. To claim that Gozitan feasts have started to degenerate, because they have imported the dangerous gene from certain (not all) maltese festas is really below the mark.

The Rabat festas have been been at each other's throat for years on end with a shameful rivalry that thankfully has not been imported to other Maltese or Gozitan villages. You find it easy to blame all Gozo's 'moral failings' on Malta but believe me (take it from a Gozitan) it is not the case.

In Gozo one had to live according to a certain pattern to fit in - omerta and keeping up apparences are simply two examples. It is not the case any more.

If people like you don't like Carnival, stay away and do not get offended.

Giljan Agius

Feb 27th 2009, 08:46

geez.. lighten up people..

Joe Galea Farrugia

Feb 27th 2009, 08:30

@Tania Walters: Please don't mix up Buddhism with Islam/Muslim. Bhuddism is all about positve thinking and doing good and being in peace with everything and everyone that surrounds you. Islam and Muslims everyone knows what it is all about. So Bhuddists & the Dalailama should not even be mentioned in the same sentence with Islam and Muslims.

I am not Catholic but regarding those who mocked Jesus, I don't find it funny. It is blasphemic and an insult to all those who believe in HIM. However, I wouldn't find it blasphemic if someone mocked politicians or the clergy especially the present clown POPE.

MG Buttigieg

Feb 27th 2009, 08:05

When society loses sight of the dignity of the human being, then
FOR FUN a group of teenagers sets on fire a man sleeping on a bench at a train station
FOR FUN a group of teenagers gang raped a girl to document everything on their mobile phones
FOR FUN two teenagers set each other on fire to get themselves immortalized on utube
BECAUSE OF BOREDOM AND FOR FUN a two year old boy is assaluted, tortured and murdered and his body thrown under an oncoming train
AND FOR FUN OR FOR A WHIM or for some other unreasonable reason it has become cool to stab to death another human being
ABSURD MOST OF YOU WOULD SAY
It is heart breaking but this is the end product of a society that has lost respect for human dignity. The result of a society that is lost in that which is futile having removed that which really count. VALUES OF LOVE, RESPECT, SOLIDARITY, PEACE

Tania Walters

Feb 27th 2009, 03:04

Next carnival dress up as the Dalai Lama or Mohammed and we'll see who think it's funny, especially the muslims. Probably you'll have the first terrorist attack in Malta. If you think you're cool when you undermine society's feelings regardless, you're only ridiculing your own selves.

Alexander Darmanin

Feb 27th 2009, 00:08

Oh come on these kids are expressing themselves in carnival in a creative way.
The importance behind all this is that the kid who thought of dressing up like Christ himself must feel fond of him.

People have been taught this Catholic doctrine from generation to generation,and to attend mass and pray for we will be saved from the sin we committed.
I wondered that myself at the age of 8 why we as babies should be born of sin,and in time I came to know the truth,that much more happened before this religion was created.
I believe in a Supreme High Intelligence and entities come from different dimensions.
But I do not believe what is written in the Catholic Scriptures to be origional,for even the old testiment is derived from the ancient sacred texts from ancient Egypt and beyond.
Cathlocism was created by the Romans and they crusified anyone.
Mankind needs to understand unconditional love between one another,and not live and pray to be saved.
Out there there are other multidimensional beings that we are all part of.

Emma Xerri

Feb 26th 2009, 23:58

You know what Bishop, I think that the Son of God probably had a great sense of humour, so I am sure that Jesus himself would have laughed too if he saw them. After all, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

So lighten up.

J Martinelli

Feb 26th 2009, 23:34

@ James Coleiro

You got it exactly backwards, my friend!

I do not expect the Church to stoop to the same level as the other religious fanaticism but there is one major difference.

The other religion took grave exception of people of a different country and faith, or lack of it, making fun of their Ajatollah or prophet. In Malta's case, such humour is even more out of place if a Catholic minority feel compelled to make fun of their own religion!

Marie Muscat

Feb 26th 2009, 23:26

I wonder in what ways exactly do cheesy/kitsch re-enactments of Christ's passion in the streets during lent differ from what these people did at Nadur? I must admit i feel tempted to record the upcoming festivities of doom.. photograph the processions... the ridiculous Isaacs... the fake beards of various Abrahams at Qormi and Zejtun... and upload the whole lot here in the hope of some objective comments.
I pity those who are not safe enough in their beliefs.. who allow themselves to be threatened by impersonations... who have become so post-human that are no longer capable of recognizing the carnivalesque element and revel in it if only for one night...
Unfortunately many are taking this opportunity to comment on wholly irrelevant issues concerning the supposedly straight-laced demeanor of the Gozitans vis a vis the Maltese.
If you cannot contemplate subversion I cannot but find you even more contemptible for it.
Pity.. we are losing what makes us human... and I bet you still believe the Divine will applaud euphorically at the sight of his minions having lost their sense of humour!

I stand to be contested ... meanwhile I'll pity the perplexed some more.

Joseph R Aquilina

Feb 26th 2009, 21:52

Bishop Grech is of course right to point this out. Religious sentiments apart, it is a sad sign of the times that gross behaviour is in, and restraint is out. However, these islands, Gozo included, have had Carnival Regulations since the times of the Knights. These are published in the Government Gazette. And they are satisfactorily enforced by the Police in Malta! Enforcment in Gozo should be no less effective. By the way if someone thinks this is good for buisness, be aware that foreign tourists are appalled at the barbarian behaviour exhibited at the Nadur carnival. This carnival has become a national disgrace!

Stanley Fenech

Feb 26th 2009, 21:38

@Edward Muscat

Get your knowledge right before you speak. My point is that if you have a life and enjoy it, good for you, but do not think that what you have comes for free. You do not have the decency of respecting the people around you. In my comment I was not talking about Christians alone. If there were other costumes representing other religions, the same holds.

If you want to be respected, start respecting the people around you.

Robert Gatt

Feb 26th 2009, 21:26

2/2 For those who firmly believe in their Christian faith and in public law and order, the Bishop's words are, to say the least, confirmatory of the willingness of the Church to promote a sence of civic society in our community. Carnival, if celebrated within the ambit of public decency, respect, and law and order, would continue being a characteristic of our cultural identity. Those like myself who felt hurt by the offensive and indecent behaviour of some of the participants during Nadur Carnival had every right to feel as such. As a member of the Cathiolic Church, I am glad to hear the Bishop disapproving the kind of behaviour which is unacceptable in a civic society.

Robert Gatt

Feb 26th 2009, 21:25

1/2 Unlike what somebody said in the comments below, the issue was not at all blown out of proportion by the Bishop of Gozo. The Bishop's underlying line of argument, both as reported in this online reportage and as explicitly stated by himself in during Ash Wednesday's ceremony, was that we cannot expect that Carnival celebrations can give us any sort of licence to perform indecent acts in public or to ridicule our Christian identity. This kind of behaviour is both ethically and legally incorrect. Any form of human behaviour - for the very fact that it is human - is only acceptable if it falls within what is legally and ethically acceptable. Carnival is no excuse to go beyond these limits. And if these limits were not present, or worse, if there existed no entity which ensured that every type of behaviour falls within these limits, society would be composed of people who could at any time express sentiments of disrespect towards fellow citizens without having anybody drawing their attention to their wrongdoings.

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 26th 2009, 21:10

@SCalleja

As a Catholic bishop Mgr Mario Grech would be amiss in his duty if he did not protest at insults specifically directed against his and our Catholic sentiments. It is unjust to speculate on what he might have said about hypothetical insults directed at other religions - because these would be just as reprehensible. It is up to the civil authorities, not the Catholic Church, to afford protection to all religions. This is doubly important when these other religions are prone to take the law in their own hands as happens with declarations of fatwa. I am refraining from concentrating exclusively on this particularly despicable and uncouth behaviour, offensive to our Christian community, not because I do not think that it is of great importance, but because no appeal based on purely religious grounds would carry much weight with those who abhor all religions.

Having said that I must emphasise that it is the hallmark of any gentleman, religious or otherwise, to refrain from giving gratuitous offence to the sentiments of others particularly their religious feelings.

H Gatt

Feb 26th 2009, 20:34

@Alan Vella:
Maybe you are underestimating me a bit too much! Bringing Monthy Python into the discussion wasn’t a mistake at all. If you watch ‘Life of Brian’ carefully you’ll notice that in the mass crucifixion scene that ends that movie with ‘always look on the bright side of life’ Jesus is not even present! You probably mistook Graham Chapman (Brian) for Jesus, and Eric Idle (who leads the singing) didn’t portray Jesus in the film anyway.

As for me (or anyone else) being sensitive, well, I would like to know since when being called a sheep or a prude is a compliment!

I can only conclude that despite all that is being said on this post you consider Jesus Christ to be a figure at whom you can have a good laugh. I really hope for your sake that He has a good sense of humour!

peter paul portelli

Feb 26th 2009, 20:14

I was present on Saturday and this year more than ever I confirm my belief that the Saturday carnival should be completely removed, and stopped. There is no more fun in it to watch and participate. The real original carnival of Nadur was on Sunday where we witnessed some 'flashes' of the traditional carnival of Nadur.. even Monday with all the rain and bad weather was much better for participation and watching...esp the 'deal or no deal' effort and the samourai one. Prosit goes to the Pietru Laqxa effort and to the mechanical five man one. Plus all those 'genuine' maskarati that makes you laugh wholeheartedly. Local council and all must make sure that what happened this year dont repeat itself. What happened this year only degrades our village and definately the feeling of the majority of Nadur residents are against allowing our town turn into a 'mizbla' full of hamallagni. We dont need this. We dont need others telling us how to enjoy ourselves. we used to do so very well before our carnival turned so degrading. Let us all speak up so this dont repeat itself in our village!!!

Joseph Schembri

Feb 26th 2009, 19:54

Had I seen people dressed up as our Lord and making fun of Him I would have been hurt. But then again so many things that other people do hurt me.... The bishop has the right, perhaps also the duty to speak against this but there are so many things that hurt me and many other people. I don't know... perhaps the maddening ringing of church bells at 6 am every Sunday so I cannot rest during the day God himself appointed for our rest.

James Scerri

Feb 26th 2009, 19:51

You know what...You complain...next year they'll do worse! ...that's how it works..
The more oppressive you are the more rebellent the youth will be!

Louis Grima

Feb 26th 2009, 19:48

I do NOT recall that the Law prohibiting Blasphemy was ever removed from the Law of the land! So who was looking the other way?!

Alfred Gatt

Feb 26th 2009, 19:46

When persons do away with the sacred, anything goes. One has to take into consideration the religious feelings of others. Freedom of expression does not mean that one can do or say what one wants. Distinctions are important. If we have reached the stage that everything goes, then we are in a very bad situation.
For us Maltese, Jesus Christ means everything to us, notwithstanding that we often ignore Him through our frailty. I should also think that those who might have drifted from the Church still respect Jesus for who he is.

Leo Mario Haber

Feb 26th 2009, 18:57

i would like to specific something. It is the Nadur Carnival that should be condemned, not all Gozo Regional Carnival. The carnival organised in the city of Victoria was smooth and a great sucess, even the carnival organised in other Gozitan localities. It is not fair that because of the spontanious carnival of Nadur that all Gozo is brought in a bad view. The Nadur carnival was greatly complimented by everyone, and so now one should address only Nadur for the"offensive behaviour". One must take into consideration that at Nadur there was not only Gozitans but also Maltese .

Giljan Agius

Feb 26th 2009, 18:47

well but probably the thing is that you cannot stop someone cause he is dressed up as jesus or his apostles.. cause they do not have a strict uniform.. like, say, a policeman, or a priest. A guy dressed up as jesus can easily say that he's dressed up as a Bedouin and authorities can say nothing, unless he's got some crown of thorns or stigmata.

Anton Zammit

Feb 26th 2009, 18:23

Monsignor Grech has every right and duty to speak up on any matter which he deems of concern just as much as these ‘luminaries’ who are flooding this blog criticizing him are doing. Actually I am really pleased when he makes his points directly presenting the whole truth to the public, as this truth will invariably hurt his detractors. That is freedom of expression for you, where one has to listen to and analyze opinions which might not be to his liking. The church has as much right to speak up and present its opinions, as any of us whether we like it or not.

Patrick Sciberras

Feb 26th 2009, 18:08

The indecent acts that took place at the Nadur 'carnival' this weekend were not just offensive to a Christian but to the human race. I think that the authorities ought to clamp down on such offensive behaviour, as after all, it is their duty for the law of the land to be observed not the Bishop's.

Dr Francis Saliba

Feb 26th 2009, 17:53

@JohnSaliba et al.

If for no other reason, seeing that you do not give such importance to the religious convictions and feelings of the local Christian community, could you please consider that it is only decent behaviour to respect for the feelings of others - and not to ridicule them. Thank you.

v.pulis

Feb 26th 2009, 17:06

Picture this scene in Nadur. You are watching carnival going by and you see someone dressed as Charlie Chaplin. You laugh as is to be expected. Then a person dressed as Jesus Christ comes into view. What is your immediate reaction? is it to laugh or to ask what does Jesus have to do with carnival? It's not a question of being religious but a question of good taste and common sense. There are so many characters to choose from to make people laugh and enjoy themselves. Now imagine someone dressing up as Mohammed!
By now he would be scattered all over Gozo! finally I was told that during the Nadur carnival chickens are slaughtered in the streets. Is this true?

Alan Vella

Feb 26th 2009, 16:57

H Gatt:

I find the idea of Jesus Christ walking down the street with a beer in hand very funny. Just saying it brings a smile to my face. Bringing Monty Python into the argument was a big mistake from your part. Life of Brian features Jesus Christ nailed to the cross whistling and singing "Always look on the bright side of life". So that is less offensive to you? You think the bishop would be "down" with that? Its OK if Monty Python do that but not OK if someone from Malta and Gozo dress up as holy figures during carnival? Reason that out for me.

The "nasty" titles (o kemm sirna sensitivi) I used are sheep and prudes. I never tried to shut you or anyone else, I am only replying to your comments. Everyone can say whatever he likes.

Bottom line is that the more people show how "insulted" and "offended" they are at this, the more Jesuses, apostles, priests and nuns will storm the streets in Nadur next year.

Karl Formosa

Feb 26th 2009, 16:42

Putting religion aside....

To who beleive, Jesus died on the cross for each and every one of us.. he saved us from sin purely out of Love... respect is the least we can do.

If one had to dress up as a deseased relative of yours is that funny? no, because it bacame personal. Yet Jesus is very alive and personal to thousands, also to youths including myself.

To V Buttigieg... I try to live by the rules of the church and a christian life and do not suffer at all, but am a very happy person. Living a christian life provides peace and joy through the lord and not chains that hold you back from pleasures of life.

Simon J. Aquilina

Feb 26th 2009, 16:29

@John Saliba,
If what the bishop said is hogwash then I suggest you take another look at some of the comments you have stated in this same blog. At least the bishop’s comments are based on real facts that happened at Nadur, sating you live in a Government sponsored church dictatorship is exaggeration (Do a simple Google search about ‘Iran’ to know what your statement implies). Additionally from when has our society become so much exclusive? The statement; “if you do not like it leave” can be said if you had some private rights over the Nadur carnival. As much as I know, Nadur, even on those three days, which seem so much sacred for some, is still part of Malta. Therefore authorities (and not the church ones) should make sure that what happens in public areas should be within limits and without offending the sentiments of anyone (including those who unfortunately, according to some are backward minded, and still believe in Christ and the authority that represents him here on earth). Besides I believe we should aim to have our Carnival compared to the one in Venice, rather than considered a simple street party! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_of_Venice

c.camilleri

Feb 26th 2009, 16:26

I admire the Muslims for not allowing anyone ridicule their religion.

Simon J. Aquilina

Feb 26th 2009, 15:58

@John Saliba,
If what the bishop said is hogwash then I suggest you take another look at some of the comments you have stated in this same blog. At least the bishop’s comments are based on real facts that happened at Nadur, stating you live in a Government sponsored church dictatorship is exaggeration (Do a simple Google search about ‘Iran’ to know what your statement implies). Additionally from when has our society become so much exclusive? The statement; “if you do not like it leave” can be said if you had some private rights over the Nadur carnival. As much as I know, Nadur, even on those three days, which seem so much sacred for some, is still part of Malta. Therefore authorities (and not the church ones) should make sure that what happens in public areas should be within limits and without offending the sentiments of anyone (including those who unfortunately, according to some are backward minded, and still believe in Christ and the authority that represents him here on earth). Besides I believe we should aim to have our Carnival compared to the one in Venice, rather than considered a simple street party! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_of_Venice

Salvina Vella

Feb 26th 2009, 15:12

First of all, I would like to say, that the words that the Gozo Bishop used (rude and offensive) for the Nadur Carnival, are the exact words to put. Even though originally I am from Nadur, and I now I live in Kercem, I am ashamed to say that I come from Nadur. I haven't attended the Carnival, because I know how it is organised. It's a dirty, pagan feast. Every year repeats itself and nobody takes action. The comments that I have just read, some of them that they are saying that there was nothing, YES THERE WAS I SAY. What about the insults that were made about the religion. The Germany etc. carnival that they celebrate are not dirty like the one that is held in Nadur. I think that the people don't see the overseas Carnival feasts, that's why they like the Nadur Carnival.
So the words that the Bishop said are right. Keep it up. You have the right to COMMENT.

Roger Teobot

Feb 26th 2009, 15:11

Giljan Agius:
"People like the bishop et al are obviously going to be offended by the Christ and the apostles dress-up.. So what would the solution be, ban them?

Politicians and their supporters will be offended by people dressing up as gonzi, obama, etc.. so.. Ban them?

If i were an old person, wouldnt i be offended by people who dress up like me, complete with stuttering walk and hideous mask? so.. ban them as well! la qeghdin fiz-zifna

and then what would we have left to dress up as? zorro? a clown? the usual sorry costumes we see in valletta?"

I work (part time) as a clown for childrens' parties and I take exception to Mr Giljan's comments. I would definitely feel ridiculed and insulted should he or anyone else dress up as a clown during carnival. I also feel insulted that he should describe our costume as "sorry".

John Smith

Feb 26th 2009, 15:06

@ccbuttigieg:
It was also gozitans who dressed indecently in the nadur carnival, not just maltese..

This is very degrading and silly and should not be allowed. We are just showing how idiotic we have become as a nation, thats all.
It's illegal to dress as a priest/nun/jesus to make fun of them.... So police should take action, where are they?

George Cremona

Feb 26th 2009, 14:40

@Joanne Ellul

You admit that moral wrongs are increasing in Gozo yet at the same time you are supporting moral indecencies as manifested during carnival and which make a mockery of Jesus Christ and of sacred things. What are you trying to say? Does the mockery of Jesus Christ and of sacred things in carnival help to decrease moral wrongs which, as you admit, are on the increase? Or what in normal life is considered offensive, indecent and immoral become unoffensive, decent and moral in carnival and yet revert again to be offensive, indecent and immoral during parochial feasts? Or do you think, as our bishop Mgr. Mario Grech said, you are "free from all legal and ethical boundaries" and therefore you are being conditioned by the "dictatorship of relativism"?

Ryan Bugeja

Feb 26th 2009, 14:27

There were people dressed as mullahs and muslims... but of course that's not mocking isn't it?!
I'm far from Muslim... but what's fair is fair... I believe that God loves humour just as we do... even though He's never seen laughing in the Bible. So I'm sure He was amused at the sight of certain costumes just as much as we all were.
Afterall... seeing someone walking dressed as Jesus Christ and his apostles is in no way profane. We're one of the few countries who tend to invent Bible characters to keep everyone happy at Good Friday processions... is that any different to dressing up for carnival?
Finding the nitty-gritty superficialities and turning them into faith-killing tools does not quite help at all bringing the lost sheep back to the flock... or isnt that a priority for the Church anymore?

C. Busutill

Feb 26th 2009, 14:22

@JoanneEllul
You know why the Gozitan feasts have started to degenerate, because they have imported the dangerous gene from certain (not all) maltese festas. Some of your priests are trying to introduce certain changes that have ruined the church in Malta. If Gozo is slowly losing values because certain customs have been imported from Malta.
I know well Nadur and you should certainly known that many are preocuppied that it will lose what made it special. The maltese that come to Nadur will add nothing they will just ruin it with their behaviour. Have you ever questioned why the maltese should come to Nadur to enjoy carnival, aren't they capable of organizing a decent one. The Valletta carnival is only about floats. If the maltese need a carnival in a small gozitan village imagine what contribution they can give besides drinking.

For the rest I have been at both Rabat feasts, I must I admit I enjoyed the one in July a little more. The other is ruder. However you have still retained what the Maltese have lost, I admire all those youths that take interest in all that is organized, ours have only one goal binge drinking

H Gatt

Feb 26th 2009, 14:19

@Alan Vella:

While I agree that putting an unlikely character in an unlikely situation can be funny, I also think you’ll agree that this is only funny when in the right hands. Basil Fawlty running a hotel is funny, but Jesus Christ prancing around Nadur with a beer bottle in his hand is not. You might note that even the in great comedy ‘The Life of Brian’ the Monthy Python team steered clear of poking fun at Christ Himself. If you’ve seen at least 5 minutes of that movie I’m sure you wouldn’t call them prudes!

At the end of the day it’s obvious that debating with you is pointless. You have been dismissing and insulting all those who disagree with you with many nasty titles all morning, included me who you’ve labelled a prude and a deluded individual simply because I expressed my beliefs. You obviously think that you are the superior being – the know-it-all. In any democratic society your attitude is unacceptable as people have a right to their opinions without having to be put down or ridiculed. Peace be with you!

Mark Galea

Feb 26th 2009, 14:17

@ C.C. Buttigieg
I was in Gozo for the long weekend since my wife is a teacher, though we went nowhere near the carnival activities, as I personally abhor carnival itself, and the vulgarity that often accompanies it. I feel the Bishop did right to complain. I would have been very insulted to watch the figure of the Risen Lord being paraded in jest. However, I very much resent your comment asking authorities to ban Maltese from the Nadur carnival for at least one day. Fat good it would have done the Gozo economy. I can tell you that all hotels, apartments, and restaurants were jam packed with Maltese patrons. And the Gozitans still seem to look at the Maltese as their 'invadors'.

MGrech

Feb 26th 2009, 14:08

I wonder why the Gozo bishop is bringing up all this. These are a bunch of kids who are well mannered and know what humour is all about. They did not offend anyone including God Himself. Doesn’t the bishop know what happens during village feasts and the Good Friday processions? The blaspheming and the money paid to this and that for opportunities to this and that. The exaggeration involved in endless hobbies related to feasts and processions. The discomfort and danger caused to thousands of families who cannot rest in their own house because of other people’s hobby the festa!

MG Buttigieg

Feb 26th 2009, 14:04

Dear Alan Vella
you have stretched the argument to the point of absurdity. So let me stretch it a bit more. What if somebody thought it funny to put an efigy of one of your loved ones for the denigration of all? Would you laugh your guts out??
And again I need to repeat the Bishop`s compliant was not only about the offense done to religious sentiment. It was also about the offence done to human dignity, disgusting and bereft of one iota of humour.

Vincent Buttigieg

Feb 26th 2009, 13:55

How many of you wise guys were present at the Bishop's ceremony at Gozo Cathedral yestrerday? How many of you wise guys went to Church anywhere yesterday? How many of you wise guys attended the 'ash laying' ceremony, fasted (as is the obligation of practising Catholics), just visited a Church to say a prayer, or just meditated during the day about the start of the Lent and the period of penance and meditation? How many of you wise guys bothered to understand the Bishop's comment in the context that it was stated? How many of you wise guys have read the last sentence of the newspaper's report about the His Lordship's sermon?

How many of you wise guys are still practising Catholics?

Then, please, as a Christian who tries to live and survive according to the Church's quite difficult and strict teachings, I ask you; please, live and let live!!!

jOHN iNGUANEZ

Feb 26th 2009, 13:55

@Alan Vella

I am not a Taliban, but try and ridicule Prophet Mohammed in an Islamist country. Let's say we have been artificially Catholic for long now. How about one seeing a costume ridiculing his wife, girlfriend and partner? Hell will break loose and people will hurry to the Police.
But not Jesus....that an unusual character in Carnival.
Let's be more serious

Raymond Sammut

Feb 26th 2009, 13:37

@ J Martinelli

There is nothing wrong in a sense of humour so long as this is in good taste.

Nevertheless, I need to strongly object to your statement: "To humour religion is OK if one feels the irresistible urge to do it."

The Roman Catholic religion under no circumstance expects to be humoured. (Here I mean "humoured" in the strict meaning of the word.) In my view, religion is not about expressing wishes that demand to be satisfied. It is about our constant desire, and ultimately commitment, to fight against all that is anathema to what is good in essence.

This is what I think the Gozo Bishop means by "human dignity". Whether it is Carnival or not, we have to try and not to allow an instant where we could fail in this commitment.

L..Galea

Feb 26th 2009, 13:36

All religions should not be made fun of, especially the deities of the particular religions.
It is one thing making fun of politicians and other public persons and another ridiculing religions and religious figures.

Those who made fun of religion and those who simply take part in carnival as an excuse to indulge in a baccanalia and drugs should be ashamed of themselves.

James Coleiro

Feb 26th 2009, 13:30

@J. Martinelli

I hope you are not intimating that the Catholic religion can swoop to the lows of other faiths that "would declare war on anyone who draws factual cartoons, let alone attempt to imitate their prophet and portray him as an object of humour"

I stood by the Danish newspapers in their stand on freedom of expression and still do. With the same reasoning I stand by those who advocate that if carnival offends you don't go.

I was at Nadur and can only conclude that this whole story has been unnecessarily blown out of proportion by the Bishop of Gozo.

Anthony Roberts

Feb 26th 2009, 13:24

Can you imagine the outcry if this had been done against another religion. As Catholics we do not stand up for what is right and the Bishop is completely right in which he says. Laughing at ourselves as Catholics is one thing, but to portray Our Lord at such a time and in such a manner is not a joke. I think those who thought it funny must have forgotten that yesterday was Ash Wednesday and the first day of Lent, the beginning of our spiritual renewal in readiness for Easter.

Giljan Agius

Feb 26th 2009, 13:23

@H. Gatt

you harp on and on.. about good humour being monty python etc.. but do you forget that probably their most celebrated (rightly so) thing is actually their Life of Brian, a parody on the Christ tale which pits Brian as a guy mistaken for the messiah?

And just cause it is a religion it does not mean that it cannot be lampooned. Many things get parodied and made fun of, why not religion? Why does it have a monopoly on things which you can or can not do.. There were people dressed up as black golliwogs, isn't that offensive if you are a black person? There were people dressed as women, depicting them as slutty and decadent. There were people dressed up as cigarettes with good natured messages on them inviting everyone to smoke..

If people have the right to make fun of an entire race (blacks) in carnival, then one can make fun of a religion as well.

Alan Vella

Feb 26th 2009, 13:23

H Gatt:

If you don't want to be called a prude than stop acting like one.

If you don't see the difference between dressing up as a disabled person at carnival and dressing up as Jesus at carnival than you can stop deluding yourself that you have a sense of humour ... you don't.

If you dress up as a disabled person at carnival you would only be highlighting a physical disability that other people suffer from, it is not even funny hence pointless. Doing it would only make you look stupid.

If, on the other hand, you dress up as Jesus at carnival it IS funny. It is funny NOT because it is ridiculing Jesus (as you put it). That is NOT why it is funny. It is funny because it is placing an unlikely character (such as a monk, nun or superman) in a carnival. The funny part (which you can't seem to grasp) is the part where you have a character in unusual circumstances. An old joke, granted, but effective nonetheless and even funnier when it creates a ruckus such as this one.

Issa ghadhekk ma fhimtx x'inhi d-differenza?

John Saliba

Feb 26th 2009, 13:21

Simon J. Aquilina

Where exactly did I say the church does not have the right to speak? The church can say what it likes but when it speaks hogwash we have every right to reply.

I repeat - Carnival can potentially offend someone for any reason under the sun. If people like the bishop do not have a sense of humour or are offended the solution is simple - stay away.

Paul Zammit

Feb 26th 2009, 13:16

@ Mr. Alan Vella
Thank you very much Mr. Alan Vella for your enlightened comments. Malta and Gozo are very lucky to have you and your wisdom. May you enjoy looking at your mirror and, peace be with you.

Joanne Ellul

Feb 26th 2009, 13:13

C. Busuttil

What do I know about Gozo? Well considering I was born, attended school and lived there until I was 26 I would say I probably know quite a bit more than you do!

Your idyllic view of Gozo is confined to a past that no longer exist. The religious festas are more like glorified paganism -have you been to Xewkija feast lately not to mention the silly San Gorg or Sta Marija rivalry?? Parish attendances have decreased albeit at a slower pace than in Malta. Some Gozitan gays are no longer afraid to come forward and separations are also on the increase. I am not writing this to in any way demonise Gozo but to reflect the reality of Gozo.

As has been pointed out in this blog, some of the people who dressed as Christ were from Nadur so stop assuming its the Maltese. I know some of them.

Back to the carnival issue I can only advise you as folows - if the Nadur Carnival offends you don't go.

As for the bishop, I hope he eventually gets his priorities right.

Robert Piscopo

Feb 26th 2009, 13:05

At least we are hearing our bishops opinion more often..... at last....

CFENECH

Feb 26th 2009, 13:01

Oh come on Bishop we deserve better than this. You might be right to complain, if those who saw the "Risen Christ" or the Apostles, converted or became athiests. I am sure that those who enjoyed this joke, enjoyed it in that particular time and place, but remained as Catholics as those who did not see this parade.

J Martinelli

Feb 26th 2009, 12:54

@ All

To humour religion is OK if one feels the irresistible urge to do it.

To mock religion is a no-no since not only ridicules faith but actually offends the many who practice it.

Besides, there are so many other things one can make fun of without offending anyone else, why pick on religion?

Other faiths (no need to name) would declare war on anyone who draws factual cartoons, let alone attempt to imitate their prophet and portray him as an object of humour.

The Bishop had every right to express his disdain at the few who unwisely chose to mock our religious figures.

C. C. Buttigieg

Feb 26th 2009, 12:46

Most of the talk about the Nadur carnival is coming from people who know nothing about it. I'm from Nadur myself and I can compare the Nadur Carnival as it was years ago and what it is now. The vast amount of people have ruined it. Our carnival was not a place where to wear a Puffi costume and shout and jump around like you're mad. It was as a grotesque carnival with the whole point being that people can't recognize you, thus being silent. Unfortunately today it has become a street, binge party attended by people who have no appreciation for tradition. And don't tell me that young people don't want this because I'm a teenager myself.

How about banning Maltese people for at least 1 day of the carnival? lol So at least we could have the original carnival back and truly enjoy it. I know the suggestion is discriminatory and impossible but nontheless it would be nice...

C.Busuttil

Feb 26th 2009, 12:42

@Joanne Ellul
What do you know about Gozo, people that are in active all year long in various activities in an manner the maltese would dream of. They cherish their traditions and work hard to keep them alive. Besides that, their parishes boom with activity and vocations. Proud of their heritage and with a strong sense of belonging. Regarding the Nadur carnival many are preoccupied that it will be ruined by the maltese. As usual we flock to Gozo not having a clue what's all about and ruin the atmosphere with the only culture we know that of Paceville behaviour.
Therefore stop this buzz word get a life, I know people involved in various societies in Gozo and what they organize and prepare what we maltese would never imagine. People with such a hectic calendar that I am surprised and amazed how they manage. I admire gozitans because they managed to find a balance between retaining the past, their religious values and living in modern world. Honestly their way of life is slower but much better then ours.

H Gatt

Feb 26th 2009, 12:39

@Alan Vella:

If you knew me you wouldn’t lump me with the category of ‘prude, holier-than-thou, bible-bashing saints’. Those who don’t agree with your line of thought are simply exercising their democratic right to be entitled to express their opinion or beliefs without fear of being ridiculed or put down - that same right that you yourself enjoy.

You assume that I would see a difference between Jesus being ridiculed and a handicapped or a homosexual being ridiculed. Well, you know what they say about assumptions, and in this case you assume wrongly. The basic belief in Christianity (not just Catholicism) is that man was created in God’s image, therefore anyone ridiculing a homosexual person or a handicapped person hurts me as much as anyone ridiculing Jesus.

Another assumption you get wrong is that I don’t have a sense of humour. Actually I have a wonderful sense of humour and even my gay friends appreciate that on our occasional nights out. What you can safely assume is that I don’t have double standards!

J.Delany

Feb 26th 2009, 12:29

i myself am an atheist, but i also believe that people shouldn't never mock other's beliefs whatever their religion might be, its called RESPECT . very simple, that way we shall all be happy , so yes the Bishop of Gozo is right to condemm such immoral behaviour from some ir-responsible individuals. Jill Delany

Josie Portelli

Feb 26th 2009, 12:27

Religion is a sensitive subject and can and will offend a large part of the population. What's wrong with carnival being "good, clean fun", anyway? I would never attend the Nadur carnival, but not so much because people dressed as Christ and the Apostles would have offended me. It is the degradation of people urinating, drinking excessively and taking drugs which I refuse to be a party to. Monsignor Grech has a duty to fulfill and he has done that by speaking out against what he felt was unacceptable. I would like to tell Mons Grech though, that another thing which would offend me, and which he might also want to speak out against, is the depiction of our statues (vari) with the Madonnas and the Saints wearing jewellery when they are carried through our streets. If it is the Church itself that portrays God's Mother and the Saints in such a pagan manner, then the Church should not condemn others for being pagan in their ways during the three days of Carnival. We should practice what we preach!

Ian C Ellul

Feb 26th 2009, 12:05

In my opinion, people who mock religion should be fined. It would be interesting to see what the police commissioner has to say about all this ...

Alan Vella

Feb 26th 2009, 11:56

H Gatt:

Dress up as a homosexual? How can you "dress up" to make fun of a homosexual??? You think all homosexuals run around in a pink boa round their neck and a small chihuahua on their arms? If you are implying mannerisms than I would assure you that I wouldn't take offence nor would the majority of homosexuals. Unlike yourself, these people do tend to have a sense of humour.

And how can I resist the urge to call people names when someone like you equates dressing up as a disabled person to dressing up as Jesus or his apostles. How would you react if Monty Python made fun of a disabled person? Would you see the difference between that and making fun of Jesus and his apostles? I guess you would. So there you have your answer.

A message to all the prude, holier-than-thou, bible-bashing saints out there: to more you show how annoyed you are, the more Jesus's and apostles will turn up at next year's carnival. It is that simple.

R. Bartolo

Feb 26th 2009, 11:53

Morality exists in spite of religion... not due to religion.

Mario J. Mizzi

Feb 26th 2009, 11:51

@Peppi Borg

living a modern life with no moral principles???? According to who??/the church by any chance? Personally I think that it is the church that has no moral principles except the ones where she is the dominant force.

As for your comments on having the mentality of 50/100 years ago - I believe it is your right to live in your outdated mentality but don't impose it on me or others who live in the present not the past.

John Muscat

Feb 26th 2009, 11:42

@Antoine Vassallo

Being from Nadur I think I can comment better that you who has never been to our (any)Carnival.

Yes it is true that in recent years participation to our carnival has been overwhelming with the bars, restaurants and mobile kiosks being the ones that really thrived from this increase. The real carnival probably takes place on the monday.

However, knowing the people involved, some of the so called 'offenders' are from Nadur and other parts villages in Gozo. Over the years we had people parading with the faces of E.Fenech Adami, Tony Zarb, Alfred Sant, George Bush and Saddam Hussein amongst others..so what?

Christ figures,apostles, buddhas, monks, mullahs, even a replica of Shiva have been paraded over the years at Nadur and this was all in good spirit...apparently until now!!

Why the Bishop woke up now is beyond me...maybe its a red herring or the Nadur cemetary that is effecting his choice of words.

However if he and some people from this blog are offended, they should stay away - punto e basta!

Simon J. Aquilina

Feb 26th 2009, 11:41

@John Saliba
so you do have a right to defend your opinion (or judge other over their opinion), but the church, an instauration which represents the majority of the Maltese (and even more so in Gozo) cannot even open its mouth to say that some things are annoying her. Carnival is there to have fun … that’s a fact. However is this the only way we know how to have fun? Being provocative, offending others, getting drunk, breaking other’s property, etc, etc, etc? The church and its representatives are not saying people not to have fun, but rather to have fun in a way that does not offend others. Is this so hard?

H Gatt

Feb 26th 2009, 11:39

Whilst I am allergic to all forms of fundamentalism and accept the basic fact that carnival is just for enjoying oneself and merrymaking for just a couple of days in a year I can easily see on this thread (as in many others) how some people who claim to be open minded use double standards when it comes the church. People like Alan Vella for example find it hilarious that someone dressed up as Jesus and the apostles (Monthy Python or Blackadder are hilarious my dear Alan, not someone dressing up as Jesus or the apostles for carnival!). I wonder if Alan or anyone else on this thread would find it hilarious if for carnival someone thought of making fun of a homosexual person or a handicapped person! Probably they wouldn’t, but then again, politically correctness excludes the church apparently. One may or may not agree with what the Bishop of Gozo has said, but there’s no need to – as Alan Vella is doing - indulge in an orgy of name calling simply to put forward his points.

Alexander G Farrugia

Feb 26th 2009, 11:37

"Nimium risus pretium est, si probitatis impendio constat"
(A laugh costs too much when bought at the expense of decency.)
Marcus Fabius Quintilianus (c. 35 - c.100 AD)
De Institutione Oratoria (VI, 3, 5)

Adrian Gambin

Feb 26th 2009, 11:32

I think that the Bishop should tackle and talk about much more IMPORTANT things rather than speaking out against Carnival which is a 3day feast every year...Other problems are daily and affecting our society!!

D.MANGION

Feb 26th 2009, 11:23

Thank God that our Lord is so loving and patient with us.

Had He been not so loving, all He had to do would be to give birth to the first invisible cancer virus, into the body of those who try to ridicule Him.

Imbaghad inehhuh in-nejk kollu l'ghandhom.

But our God is a loving God. An extremely patient God. A wonderfully tolerant God. So tolerant that He even allows the most mediochre among us to ridicule him.

Gloria lil-Missier u L-Iben u L-Ispirtu S-Santu !!!

Paul Azzopardi

Feb 26th 2009, 11:22

@ALBERT FENECH

Your comments about urinating and vomiting are well out of context in respect to freedom mentioned by Adriano Spiteri. If you want to see urinating and vomiting go to Paceville every weekend.

The point here is that if we start limiting Carnival in a manner where someone's sentiments may be offended we can practically do away with carnival altogether.

Malta may be catholic 'on paper' but the reality is far far different from what predominantly catholic. Further comments on this point would be superfluous.

MG Buttigieg

Feb 26th 2009, 11:19

I thank God that the Bishop's words will not fall on deaf ears and hardened hearts. All people of good will on these islands, and there are thousands, will take heed of his words and make a small move, say a small prayer and make their voices heard in defence of all that is most precious to us. W need to defend our human dignity, our religion, the innocence of our children. Let us not be a silent majority so that this wave of decadence will not turn into a huge wave which will sweep us all under.

Antoine Vassallo

Feb 26th 2009, 11:13

I no longer get surprised (seeing previous occasions, including the "Stitching" case) that so many Maltese try to sound au courant and intellectually smart by aping liberal political correctness - too often they assume they know what the silent majority thinks and feels. I have never been to the Nadur carnival (or in any other village) but I have talked with Nadurin who feel outsiders during this weekend, practically excluded from visiting their village core!
The Nadur carnival lost its true identity when so many non-Gozitans began participating (and took it over!)
Why shouldn't we defend our values!? It's not just Bishop Grech's responsibility! Too often, we prefer to sit on the fence not to risk unpopularity
It should also be noted that laws and regulations were in fact broken (from Health&Safety to illegal drinking and drug-taking). Current laws also prohibit public masks and uniforms etc.
Only a really backward society would feel constrained in its "originality" through being stopped from law-breaching and offensive behaviour!
I obviously agree that the Nadur carnival should not be the exclusive butt of our criticism and protest!

Peppi Borg

Feb 26th 2009, 11:02

Better to have the mentality of 50 or even 100 years ago than living a modern life with no moral principles.
During Carnival days the Maltese can find some part in Malta and enjoy themselves there. The Gozitans do not need them to cross over to Gozo to perform shameful degenerative behaviour.
The Mayor of Nadur should see that such behaviour is not ever repeated again. Otherwise she must have the courage to stop the carnival.

Giljan Agius

Feb 26th 2009, 10:59

@R. Marsh

i hope your barack obama comment wasn't supposed to make you look intelligent and showered with a celestial wise nature.. cause it just does the opposite of that.

a sultana

Feb 26th 2009, 10:56

"irrationality " is building a cemetry and ruining nature

Giljan Agius

Feb 26th 2009, 10:55

People like the bishop et al are obviously going to be offended by the Christ and the apostles dress-up.. So what would the solution be, ban them?

Politicians and their supporters will be offended by people dressing up as gonzi, obama, etc.. so.. Ban them?

If i were an old person, wouldnt i be offended by people who dress up like me, complete with stuttering walk and hideous mask? so.. ban them as well! la qeghdin fiz-zifna

and then what would we have left to dress up as? zorro? a clown? the usual sorry costumes we see in valletta?

Joanne Ellul

Feb 26th 2009, 10:45

@Stanley J. Attard

You prefer to live in Gozo 100 years ago?? With respect I think it is you that needs to get a life :-)

I was at Nadur and saw these people. No one was offended as far and it was all taken within a carnival spirit.

I think that these extremist views simply demonstrate a hardening of a catholic minority against the more tollerent view of an absolute majority.

ALBERT FENECH

Feb 26th 2009, 10:44

Freedom above all....wrote Adriano Spiteri. Yes, agreed, but is it freedom when people urinate and vomit pucblicly? When people get drunk and then make a public nuisance of themselves? Above all, whether Adriano Spiteri likes to believe it or not, this is a Christian country with a Christian philosophy and Christian sentiments and it is a public insult to mock the sentiments and feelings of a majority of citizens. No amount of silver and honey-tongued buzz-words about freedom and liberality overcome the fact that sheer, crass bad taste and rudeness are exactly just as they mean and well done Mgr Mario Grech for speaking the truth for what it is and expressing a majority Maltese and Gozitan sentiment over such shameful behaviour.

r ferriggi

Feb 26th 2009, 10:41

May i congatulate the Bishop for speaking out.

these carnival farces have to stop.

and the fireworks curtailed.

and the feasts downsized.

i am not against culture or religion, or tradition. but.... all this is overboard now.

P, Spiteri

Feb 26th 2009, 10:39

Jesus said,
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged,"

Frans Sammut

Feb 26th 2009, 10:33

@MGButtigieg
Your comments make a lot of sense. As do Bishop Grech's. There is a malaise in the air that needs to be faced.

@John Inguanez
I agree also with your assessment: 'The problem is more deep rooted I think." Shall we call it globalization a` la gozitaine? I'm not trying to be funny. The Bishop was dead serious in his comments, and they should be heeded. The Carnival in Rio for all its permissivity does not try to offend the religious sentiments of other citizens; why should Carnival in Nadur do that?

Mr Inguanez is very right. The problem is deep rooted and should be addressed and studied by sociologists and writers, not only by the Church which is of course absolutely justified in airing its strong opinion on the matter.

John Saliba

Feb 26th 2009, 10:30

@Simon J. Aquilina

Carnival can potentially offend someone for any reason not just religious Icons. It could be for political, societal, environmental etc etc etc.

The truth is that carnival is about people being able to fool about once a year period. Unfortunately if it were for people like you we would have no carnival at all.

The only nails in society's coffin are church interferance using the usual vocabulary of morality, individualism etc.

I hope Bishop Grech keeps it up. The more he speaks like this the less seriously the majority you referred to will take him.

Alan Vella

Feb 26th 2009, 10:28

MG Buttigieg:
"Dumb are those people whose behaviour mirrors that of animals (with all respect to the animals). Does illumination mean that we are moving back to the age of the APES (again with respect to the apes)???"

No, dumb are those people who rely on others to do their thinking for them - a trait associated with sheep.

The people who dressed up as Jesus and the apostles demonstrated a great sense of humour - a trait that is more commonly associated with humans, not animals.

It is not a question of being illuminated. I don't feel "illuminated" because I can see the light side of such a thing. Illumination does not enter into the equation.

You, on the other hand, are just showing what a prude person you are. If you are easily offended by such things then stick to the Valletta carnival - good clean "fun". Stay away from Nadur during carnival.

R. Marsh

Feb 26th 2009, 10:26

@ Alan Vella et al
it is clear that this is an issue close to peoples hearts. Calling names such as SHEEP and DEGENERATIVE is never going to help us get anywhere. In situations such as this i always stop and think what would barack obama do? his clear thinking and sound philosophies have been an inspiration to thousands aeound the world.

Christopher Camilleri

Feb 26th 2009, 10:25

@ Alan Vella

Paul Zammit's comment is a perfect example which shows the mentality of the previous generations, who as I said below were brainwashed by the Church. Unfortunately, there are many Maltese which inherited this close-minded culture and are not willing to change.

Edward Muscat

Feb 26th 2009, 10:19

@Stanley Muscat

Considering that you state that you "rather be a Gozitan a hundred years ago" I think it is you that needs to get a life not me. With all due respect I have a life and enjoy it regardless of church diktat.

However remember that Carnival is a secular festival (that the church in the past attempted to ban).

Interestingly enough last year I saw two locals dressed as buddhist monks (orange robes, shaved hair and all). As far as I can remember no bishop spoke up about this and neither did you.....so much for respect of religions(sic)

With respect do get real please! If carnival offends you stay away.

Leo Mario Haber

Feb 26th 2009, 10:19

There is more to do to safeguard the law. The dress code was not respected at all in Gozo. People wearing as police official even walking liberatly in front of Victoria Police Station during the day. People wearing vocational dresses such as sister, even men, people wearing as Christ and his appostles. It is a shame. I think that the Holy Week or the Good Friday came earlier this year.

joe vella

Feb 26th 2009, 10:15

thank god that we have people like Mgr Grech around, people who are close to their flock and speak their mind clearly. I am no saint, no saint at all really, but I have met Mgr Grech about 4 times, purely through the fact that he goes out among his people, alone and joins the crowds, he mixes freely and easily. I happened to hear a sermon by him during mass and was impressed by his outright approach, no frills, straight talk. I full agree with what the Bishop of Gozo said- I was at the nadur carnival last year, had to leave after a few minutes because my 10 year old son was terrified at seeing a bunch of neanderthals go loose
shame on the authorities, no control, no policing nothing -simply people gone wild just for 'pleasure' I have read some of the comments - obviously, people who enjoy this official lawlessness will go out of their way to chastise the bishop for speaking out loud
Mgr Grech just carry on, sensible people know you are right and support you

Simon J. Aquilina

Feb 26th 2009, 10:13

@John Saliba,
The “morality non-sense” you are talking about makes a lot of sense for the majority of the Maltese! You and your comments actually show how right the bishop is to state such comments; did it ever pass your mind that when you offend religious icons you are also offending the people believing in such items? But I guess you only care about your personal satisfaction on such matters … all other don’t matter right! Another nail in our society - individualism.

MG Buttigieg

Feb 26th 2009, 10:11

@ Alan Vella
Dumb are those people whose behaviour mirrors that of animals (with all respect to the animals). Does illumination mean that we are moving back to the age of the APES (again with respect to the apes)???

Paul Vella

Feb 26th 2009, 10:03

Just as I am very much allergic to religious fundamentalism I 'm equally irritated by comments simply aimed at ridculing . Monsignor Grech was right. Let us enjoy ourselves. But there is a limit to everything. I'm afraid that our society is more and more ignoring common decency and respect for values (christian or whatever). The results are there for all to see. We even had Hitler featuring in the Nadur Carnival. If something like this happened in the Uk or Germany there would have been quite a reaction...judging what happened recently to Prince Harry (princess Diana's son). Yes Mgr Grech had every right to speak out. To all the denigrators disagree if you wish but thank God that you live in a tolerant country where you do not risk having your arms or feet amputated, or your tongue pulled out or (even worse) execution.

Adriano Spiteri

Feb 26th 2009, 10:03

'Dictatorship of Relativism'. Who dictates public morality and ethics?

Robert Pirsig was so right in stating:
"When a man suffers from delusion, it is called insanity.
When many people suffer from delusion, it is called religion"

I believe everyone should be free to believe in whatever. However no one should deter others from their own freedom just because he has a set of principles to maintain. Divorce, Euthanasia... for example. Our constitution can no longer side Christianity.

Censorships, inquisitions, crusades, political agendas ... we survived in spite of Christianity not because of it.

Freedom above all.

Ian Cremona

Feb 26th 2009, 09:57

I don't believe that this should be an issue. I saw the person that dressed up as Jesus for most of the night (he was only wearing a heart - nothing vulgar) and noticed that he did not offend anyone or any religion, it was basically just a group of people who really did an effort in preparing a staged show... nothing else! Why does the church have to condemn it? I would have thought that the church would have developed some lateral thinking by now. There where people dressed up as all sorts of things - it was fun, and maybe already a little too commercial compared to the other years, I wouldn't like the church or close minded people like MG Buttigieg to stop it or make it more boring.

Mario Sammut

Feb 26th 2009, 09:54

My friend 'Dun Mario' should have known better - or chose his words better.

The only effect of these statements will be to alienate and instill anti-church feelings where they are not needed. In this regards Archbishop Cremona comes out in a better manner. However its carnival for God's sake.I am sure no offense was meant by those wearing those costumes.

Simon J. Aquilina

Feb 26th 2009, 09:52

@John Saliba,
The “morality non-sense” you are talking about makes a lot of sense for the majority of the Maltese! You and your comments actually show how right the bishop is to state such comments; did it ever pass your mind that when you offend religious icons you are also offending the people believing in such items? But I guess you only care about your personal satisfaction on such matters … all other don’t matter right! Another nail in our society - individualism.

Alan Vella

Feb 26th 2009, 09:39

Paul Zammit:
"I fully agree with Bishop Grech in his analysis of the current situation "where people believed they were free from all legal or ethical boundaries and could do and say what they wanted, even when this offended or hurt others." Please, Bishop Grech give us more such teaching to enable us to learn how to analyze the current situation and to continue enjoying our traditional way of living, which we have a right to do. Thank you Bishop Grech."

You speak like a mindless sheep. It looks like you have an empty vessel for a head that needs filling up by the next bishop or priest. Can't you analyze the situation for yourself? Aren't you able to use your own head to analyze the situation? Do you realize how dumb your comment makes you look???

John Saliba

Feb 26th 2009, 09:34

More of the same 'morality' nonsense. Unlike his allegations that we are living in the 'the dictatorship of relativism’ it would be more accurate to state that we live under the Government sponsored church dictatorship.

Stanley Fenech

Feb 26th 2009, 09:30

@Edward Muscat

If the Bishop's words are an indication of Gozo being 50 years behind Malta. I'd rather be a Gozitan a hundred years ago. Dear Mr. Muscat, since when Christ and his life has become carnival matter? Please get a life and try to respect the life and believes of others.

I am no saint, and those who know me can appreciate this, I cannot tolerate people making fun of others' religion and believe in any way.

carmen caruana

Feb 26th 2009, 09:27

That's right mr.Bishop. Let's call the inquisition!! lol

Alan Vella

Feb 26th 2009, 09:24

I saw photos of the people dressed up as Jesus and his apostles. They were hilarious, ten out of ten for the effort.

If someone is too PRUDE to see the funny side of this and feels insulted or offended then I would advise you to STAY AWAY from Nadur during carnival.

MG Buttigieg

Feb 26th 2009, 09:24

To you all who are expressing themselves in favour of the Nadur Carnival:
The majority of the Gozitans do not accept that urine runs like rain water in their streets.Mobile toilets were available but people were stone drunk to the point of relieveing themselves like dogs on every corner available.
Gozitans do not accept persons who have lost all sense of decency and decor to make fun of their religion.
Gozitans do not accept persons who think that they have the licence to make fun of the human person drawing ridicule to the male human body. It was neither art nor was it was folklore. It was just shameful degenerative behaviour
All of you who say that they have enjoyed themselves. PLEASE STAY AT HOME AND IF YOU DARE REPEAT YOUR ANTICS IN FRONT OF YOUR PARENTS OR LOVED ONES.

clive borg

Feb 26th 2009, 09:16

@ Charmaine Chetcuti

You simply show you don't know what BEING CREATIVE means by your statement, for being creative you don't need to TWAQQA GHAC_CAJT WHO IS DOING GOOD but trying to inspire yourself with something that no one has seen ... imitating everyday life things isn't creative... you'll be simply ridiculing it!

well if you haven't got the will to be creative than you could always tell someone else who is creative...

you could always use a dictionary.....
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/creative


cre⋅a⋅tive
   /kriˈeɪtɪv/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kree-ey-tiv] Show IPA
–adjective
1. having the quality or power of creating.

A. Briffa

Feb 26th 2009, 09:16

Why doesn't he condemn Victoria's Lion Band Club? If he wants to be credible, he should stop these irregularities.

Dr. Ing. Patrick Attard

Feb 26th 2009, 09:15

Whilst it is important to respect the different religions of the country, I find it very strange that the Bishop has time to condemn the Nadur carnival, yet no time to talk about the construction of the Nadur Cemetry where the water was poisoned and more than 5000 trees will be killed and the livelihood of the Nadur farmers endangered. It has been more than 2 years that his "sheep" had been asking for a meeting.

Well maybe if the total value of the graves reach EUR 3.5m then the things will come into perspective. Now where is the carnival?!

Edward Muscat

Feb 26th 2009, 09:13

Gozo is renowned for being an island 50 years behind Malta. In the light of recent comments, so is her bishop.

John Inguanez

Feb 26th 2009, 09:12

I udnerstand the Bishop's Concern. I don't understand how the Police, removed the name on a door not to offend a band club, and they did nothing to stop this. But I have learned that this is "Gozo Republic" with no offence to the majority of honest people living there.

Religion seems to be too artificial, but I admire Bishop Grech speaking out his mind. Everyone one should support him and reverse the trend.

But the problem is more deep rooted I think.

MG Buttigieg

Feb 26th 2009, 09:00

IT WAS AN OUTRAGE!!! STOP COUNTING EUROS AND THE AMOUNT OF PASSENGERS CROSSING OVER. STOP MAKING GOZO THE DOORMAT OF THE MALTESE ISLANDS. STOP THE NADUR CARNIVAL FROM SERVING AS AN EXCUSE FOR THE MOST DEGENERATIVE BEHAVIOUR. STOP THE NADUR CARNIVAL. IT HAS BEEN TURNED FROM BEING AN EXPRESSION OF FOLKLORISTIC CELEBRATION INTO A BACCANALIA.

Frans Sammut

Feb 26th 2009, 08:58

I really cannot understand what makes the Nadur Carnival tick! If I may borrow Lady Caroline Lamb's famous judgment of irrational behaviour (even in a much more enlightened personage) I would attempt at describing the outrageous event in this succinct fashion: "mad, bad and dangerous."

Giljan Agius

Feb 26th 2009, 08:39

What exactly do these conservatives want in Gozo? Another rehash of the supremely silly carnival which we see in Valletta? A carnival which stops being exciting once you reach walking age? If you are easily offended, then simply do not go to the Nadur carnival.. it's quite easy.. It's just like a film which may offend you, or a play which may offend, or some music which may offend some people. Everything is going to offend someone at some point, so what should one do,, ban everything, just cause someone gets offended?

Joseph Sammut

Feb 26th 2009, 08:30

Prosit Mgr. Grech, keep it up: it would be good if others help out.

N. Micallef

Feb 26th 2009, 08:23

I'm sure Christ was not offended with people dressing up like Him. Perhaps Christ has much more sense of humour than the Gozo Bishop. Come on, it was Carnival....its name explains everything!!

Joseph Schembri

Feb 26th 2009, 08:22

What legal or ethical boundaries were broken? The bishop should realise that all "legal boundaries" placed on carnival are at best archaic ...

C.Sapiano

Feb 26th 2009, 08:17

Bishop Mario Grech is very right in defending morality. Even if one does not agree with him, he must be respected for his ability in defending the values of our nation from a vulgar minority.

Paul Zammit

Feb 26th 2009, 07:56

I fully agree with Bishop Grech in his analysis of the current situation "where people believed they were free from all legal or ethical boundaries and could do and say what they wanted, even when this offended or hurt others." Please, Bishop Grech give us more such teaching to enable us to learn how to analyze the current situation and to continue enjoying our traditional way of living, which we have a right to do. Thank you Bishop Grech.

Christopher Camilleri

Feb 26th 2009, 07:50

While I also condemn such degrading costumes which show lack of respect to the Catholic faith, Mgr Mario Grech should also remember the many generations which were brainwashed and brought up under the fundamentalist dictatorship of the Church.

Charmaine Chetcuti

Feb 26th 2009, 07:30

People dress as Christ and saints every year in the Gozo carnival. Many also dress as gods or deities from other religions. I guess this arrived to the bishop only now. I'm starting to believe that people will, from now on, be constrained to dress only in their old school uniforms for Carnival!

The spontaneous Carnival at Nadur should be praised for its creativity. Persons go to great lengths into making their costumes unique and original.

I think the Church should tackle other more important problems than this.