Birdlife gives Ornis paper on negative impacts of trapping

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Feb 24th 2009, 10:27

Mr / Ms C. Mallia, you never give up, do you?! You are the one who is making false declarations and as such, you must substantiate your arguments. I do not expect you to own up that you are wrong when saying that trapping is illegal in other EU countries, BUT I do expect you to stop insisting with your false arguments.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Feb 23rd 2009, 18:53

I have commented online over 8 hours ago, yet my comment has not as yet been posted. Kindly look into the matter.

salvu abela

Feb 22nd 2009, 13:02

@ C.Mallia.
I`m still waiting for your answer. Are you there? Why don`t the birds nest in Malta?
Cikku ik Poplu waiting for the answer.After all you are supposed to teach us,
salvu abela

malcolm said

Feb 22nd 2009, 11:46

@c mallia.......we are eagerly waiting the answer for the question that salvu abela asked you. I will ask you again........WHY ALL THE BIRDS THAT SPEND WINTER HERE IN MALTA, SUCH AS STARLINGS, WHITE WAGTAILS, MEADOW PIPITS, ROBINS, REDSTARTS ETC ETC, GO BACK TO EUROPE WHEN BREEDING SEASON APPROACHES????????? and dont tell me cos of hunting and trapping. You, mr. mallia know the answer but afraid to answer so that cikku l poplu will not know the truth. if you will not answer, I will dont worry later on.

joseph lia

Feb 22nd 2009, 11:33

@c.mallia
Rest assured ,sir, all relevant details and information have been passed to the proper authorities. The necessary legal documents are in the proper hands.

C Mallia

Feb 22nd 2009, 08:16

@Joseph Lia

Dear Sir, That trapping with clapnets and limesticks is active in the EU, yes it is true, like any other type of crime such as stealing, drug trading and violence, BUT all are illegal. If certain EU regions are issuing official government licences and they specifically say that they are for trapping, as you are suggesting, then, I would definately like to see a copy, so that they are reported to the commission.

Alfred Farrugia

Feb 22nd 2009, 01:19

Can somebody explain what is the meaning of the following extracts from the EU Birds Directive – Council Directive 79/409/EEC, among others?

Article 6.

2. The activities referred to in paragraph 1 shall not be prohibited in respect of the species referred to in Annex III/1, provided that the birds have been legally killed or captured or otherwise legally acquired.

3. Member States may, for the species listed in Annex III/2, allow within their territory the activities referred to in paragraph 1, making provision for certain restrictions, provided the birds have been legally killed or captured or otherwise legally acquired.
Article 7
1. Owing to their population level, geographical distribution and reproductive rate throughout the Community, the species listed in Annex II may be hunted under national legislation. Member States shall ensure that the hunting of these species does not jeopardize conservation efforts in their distribution area.
2. The species referred to in Annex II/1 may be hunted in the geographical sea and land area where this Directive applies.
3. The species referred to in Annex II/2 may be hunted only in the Member States in respect of which they are indicated.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:1979:103:0001:005:EN:HTML

toni gatt

Feb 22nd 2009, 00:21

@ carmelo aquilina,
Even the drunk at the kazin knows that those one and a half million euros that Bird-life (Malta)got from the EU are from our tax money ,and what for ? just to put six billboards,just to tag fifteen shear-waters? come-on wake up, you are being taken for a ride,don`t you think that those monies are more needed somewhere else,like for example,put more staff at Mater-Dei or build the much needed better roads ,cause that`s what the drunk at the kazin keeps repeating,even thou he is drunk he is also right.

Lino Farrugia

Feb 22nd 2009, 00:03

The FKNK in November 2008 presented a Dossier to the two Political Parties of the Malta Parliament entitled "MALTA – The Traditional Socio-Cultural Passion of Wild-Birds Capturing for the purpose of keeping Alive in Captivity" containing proposals for the continuation of this Malta traditional passion.

The Government insisted that the Dossier be first reviewed by the ORNIS Committee – Malta. This was presented at the ORNIS meeting of the 7th January 2009, and supplemented by another draft document, "Socio-Culture & Traditions in Malta’s Hunting and Trapping Passions", which paper highlighted both these aspects in wild-birds capturing.

BirdLife (Malta) in turn presented a critique of the Dossier, which presentation was made by their Turkish Director, who towards the end of his report very surprisingly also criticised FKNK’s symbolic gesture of last November when over a hundred birds that had been caught by clap-nets by trappers were released back into the wild!

The FKNK is at present preparing an evaluation report of BirdLife’s critique report.

Lino Farrugia
Secretary - FKNK

salvu abela

Feb 21st 2009, 23:56

@ C.Mallia.
explain to us not as Maltese trappers and hunters but as Cikku il Poplu, ( and please don`t put the blame as Birdlies always do on the trappers and hunters) why those hundreds or thousands of Robins and White- Wagtails and a dozen of other kinds of birds don`t breed (nest) in Malta after that they have spend about six months here, during the cold months but when Spring comes they all leave to mainland Europe,something not right for them in our Island I think. Explain to the Maltese why.

carmelo aquilina

Feb 21st 2009, 22:38

If our trappers and apologists think they have a case, then they should get a scientific and legal case drawn up at their own expense and take the EU to Court. If they're not able to do it, then why should the rest of us have to listen to interminable xenophobic whining like some drunk in a kazin ?

malcolm said

Feb 21st 2009, 22:35

Birdlife Malta.........gives ornis paper on negative impacts of trapping, ........WHAT NEGATIVE IMPACTS??????????? please illuminate us less intelligent people.
Stop lying and trying to influence the public with your hidden agenda to ban trapping . You are not ornithologists but ABOLISTI.
Regarding the paper birdlife presented, the comitee knows what to do with it, not nice to mention here!!!!!!

joseph lia

Feb 21st 2009, 21:11

@C.Mallia
Dear sir, I assure you that trapping with clapnets and limesticks is very legal and active in the EU, I myself had the pleasure to meet the President of the Valencia Trapping federation (APAVAL) and I assure you sir that legal trapping licences had already been issued for 2009 (we met in July 2008). Mr Pascal Battala (Apaval Spanish Federation) was very much aware of our (Maltese trappers plight) ancient socio-cultural passion dating back pre-Knights of St John....incidentally , sir, Mr. Battala is a charming school teacher, avid finch trapper and defender of his cultural rights!

m.vassallo

Feb 21st 2009, 19:36

I believe birdliies should have given ornis paper on birdlies negative attitude for everything.Stop these extremists interference.Their aim is very clear now-money.No wonder Mepa pulled out from their false and nonsense campaign.

I Robinich

Feb 21st 2009, 19:26

@ C Mallia
Of course I have no idea, people like Birdlife never educated people but only raised sensationalism They were suppose to invest EU funds in educating people like me Unfortunatiel they FAILED DRASTICLY clear example are the Billboards of no significant educational importance

Instead of hammering haterid within the Maletse they should use media space to issue statistics, educational information about migratory birds (like natural habitats, feeding habits, flight patterns, life expectancy, nesting etc) not just showing a photo of a rare bird which visited the reserve, and explainig the importance of bird ringing like you briefly illustrated (thank for this)

Guess no one gets paid in Malta for ringing so this activity is a pass time. Birdlife never advertised courses on ornitology or ringing. Guess cause none of them is qualified and it is not in their interest, they dont care, its completely out of their agenda They might also be afraid that someone puts his finger in their pie, so they leave the Maltese in the dark. But for sure they are professionals in instigating haterid and adding fuel to the fire

Mela ghamlu d-DIFFERENZA by educating people the right way.

C Mallia

Feb 21st 2009, 19:09

@Zarb Darmanin

You and people like you, are the ones claiming that trapping is legal in the EU, not me. When you make such a claim - substantiate it and base it on reliable official institutions documents otherwise your claim is worthless. Trapping and spring hunting are illegal. The birds directive says it, and the EP has also given the go ahead to the commission to take Malta to court about it. The commission must be very sure that Malta has broken EU law!

@George Gauchi
I am sorry but again you quote from youtube to substantiate your arguments. Its not dependable. We are talking about legalities here and not what some person or organisation has put on some unreliable website. Thankfully hunters and trappers did not vote much for FKNK in 2004. I tell you why: The wise hunters and trappers knew that joining the EU was much much more, than being obsessed with safeguarding their passtime.

george gauchi

Feb 21st 2009, 18:49

@ C.Mallia,
have a look at this fresh ,from the horse`s mouth ( an Australians saying ).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP26WIyBVKI&feature=channel_page

toni attard

Feb 21st 2009, 18:26

look what the French do with Ortolan Buntings,have a look at this Youtube video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0yKx4a-b3A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y4MS7mSzX8

george gauchi

Feb 21st 2009, 18:12

@ C.Mallia.
Mr Farrugia got low votes because the majority of hunters and trappers believed the Prime Minister`s and MIC promises and they ( hunters and trappers ) are all very sorry now that`s why next EU election in June they are going to vote (if they vote ) the opposite.
And yes trapping is done legally in Austria and Spain,on youtube there is a video where the wardens go to check their licence and there is another one where there a lot of school-children including their teacher,and when the trapper pulls the nets the students go to see the caught finches and the trapper explains to them what birds they are and how they recognise them.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Feb 21st 2009, 18:11

As you said we will let readers judge.

"Hunters and trappers had every opportunity to oppose EU accession, but we still joined." Remember, Sir?? The Prime Minister himself had given hunters and trappers a guarantee that their traditional pastime will continue to be practised. Most hunters and trappers based their vote on this guarantee. Pity they did not realise that Mr. Lino Farrugia's words were more reliable than those of the Prime Minister! In accordance to your line of thought, should we therefore consider the Yes Vote as null?

As for the legal practice of trapping in other EU countries, I urge you to inform yourself better. I think you are expecting to much by asking me to do YOUR homework!

The "official european parliament texts" you are quoting are being twisted the way that pleases you. I suggest you read it again. Nowhere does it say that trapping is illegal in all EU countries. IN FACT IT IS NOT!!!

C Mallia

Feb 21st 2009, 17:40

@Ms Zarb Darmanin

Let us let the readership decide who is twisting facts, shall we? Those are official european parliament texts and not simple youtube videos which just promotes illegalities in other EU countries. Find just one reliable and official source of information (from the EU Institutions) that bird trapping is legal in the EU, then maybe you will be believed.

C Mallia

Feb 21st 2009, 17:32

@Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

On the issue of hunting and trapping the Maltese Citizen has been treated better than other EU citizens. Malta should have stopped trapping and spring hunting from 2004 to be in-line with the Birds Directive. The Bird Directive is clear about this. Instead Malta was given an extension of another 4 years trapping. It is only the PN government that has purposely misinformed hunters and trappers.

FKNK at the time were not fooled either and did not trust what the government said, so much so that they fielded their own candidate: Mr Lino Farrugia. Maybe you need reminding: He got 3119 out of 245,722 valid votes!! Hunters and trappers had every opportunity to oppose EU accession, but we still joined.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Feb 21st 2009, 17:29

Mr. C. Mallia, I am sorry to say that you are twisting facts, something quite common in the anti-hunting lobby. The website you quoted speaks of ILLEGAL trapping in other EU countries. What you are convenienyly missing is that trapping is practised LEGALLY in other EU countries.

Kenneth Galea

Feb 21st 2009, 17:26

Trapping is not my hobby and will never be.
However I notice like everything else on this island that our traditional values are slowly being eroded away. Trapping been very popular in Malta from Adam and Eve and to crush it in order to please Brussels is simply not right.

C Mallia

Feb 21st 2009, 17:16

@George Gauchi

Wrong. That document is about Malta but is applicable to the whole of the EU including Austria, Spain, Italy and France. See points 2 and 3 of the document which are directed to all EU states and areas. Those videos on youtube only say that there is also illegality in other EU states as well and not only in Malta.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Feb 21st 2009, 17:15

BirdLife Malta, Messrs. Finch, Camilleri and the likes, contrary to your arguments, I will quote hereunder what the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Environment had written to the hunters and trappers (hope you understand Maltese):-

"L-emendi ghal dawn ir-Regolamenti saru biex il-kacca u l-insib f'Malta ikunu mharsa. Bil-ftehim li ghamel il-Gvern Malti mal-Unjoni Ewropeja bhala parti mill-pakkett ta' shubija, l-Unjoni Ewropeja accettat il-kacca u l-insib f'Malta fir-Rebbiegha. Dan minhabba l-fatt li l-Unjoni Ewropeja fehmet li l-kacca u l-insib f'Malta jsiru ghall-ghasafar li jpassu u n-numru ta' dawn l-ghasafar huwa zghir. L-ghan tal-Birds Directive ta' l-Unjoni Ewropeja mhuwiex li jinqatghu l-kacca u l-insib izda biex dawn ikunu sostenibbli u biex ma jinqerdux certi speci ta' ghasafar."

Sirs, do you consider your comments to be superior to the statements/guarantees of a Prime Minister, Ministry, EU officials or MIC officials? Grow up and try to replace your hatred towards your co-citizens with tolerance!!

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Feb 21st 2009, 17:03

I just cannot understand how certain people expect and accept that the Maltese (be it hunters, trappers or whatever) be treated inferior to their EU counterparts. Sirs, if you suffer so much of inferiority complex, may YOU be treated inferior BUT I and many other Maltese citizens do not subscribe to your way of thinking and acceptance. I am neither a hunter nor a trapper, yet I will fight it all the way to see that the MALTESE ARE TREATED EQUALLY TO OTHER EU CITIZENS.

As for BirdLife Malta, I expect them to explain why they are not prepared to include other involved parties (i.e. FKNK) in this project. On the other hand, MEPA did the right thing - after all, every Maltese citizen pays his taxes and as such MEPA are duty-bound to see that the interests of all are safeguarded.

Another interesting point is: how do BirdLife and other individuals consider certain papers as being binding whereas other written guarantees given by the then Prime Minister of Malta, MIC and even the EU as being obsolete. SO MUCH FOR COSISTENCY!

george gauchi

Feb 21st 2009, 16:48

@ C. Mallia.
that document is about Malta, but what about Austria,and Spain they trap finches too and legally,the Maltese hunter and trapper was cheated by the PN, because the people who were sent to deal with the EU were anti-trapping and anti- hunting people. It was like sending the Pope to deal about abortion and divorce.

Joe Camilleri

Feb 21st 2009, 16:16

@ Edward Camilleri & @ Chris Finch
The reason I mentioned the you-tube videos is just to show that trapping is LEGAL in the EU and not as birdlife says. So please read my comments correctly.
Maltese trappers never trap that way or capture that ammount of birds shown. Here we use clap nets which do not harm the bird and keep the caught birds for their song, for breeding as live decoys, and if the govt wants, to let us ring and release them.

C Mallia

Feb 21st 2009, 16:06

@Joe Camlleri & Anthony Formosa

Bird Trapping is illegal throughout the EU. Showing some videos on youtube does not make it legal. Please inform yourself before you get into conclusions. Look at this:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+TA+P6-TA-2007-0074+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

@I Robinich

Bird ringing is done within the parameters of EU law which includes scientific bird research and contributes significantly in compiling important scientific lists such as the IUCN list. It is not done as a passtime, for business, or simply for pleasure unlike trapping. It is a monitoring tool and for these reasons, it can never be at par with simple bird trapping....x"differenza!!! You talk like this because you simply have no idea.

salvu abela

Feb 21st 2009, 16:01

Will somebody out there please (there seem to be a lot of people who knows a lot about birds ) just tell me why the Robins,the White Wag-tails, Starlings,Skylarks and a dozen other birds do not nest in Malta after staying here a whole six months and when breeding ( nesting ) season comes they go again to mainland Europe, please don`t say the trappers or hunters got to do with it.

J Farrugia

Feb 21st 2009, 15:58

These are all lies. Birdlife has nothing to show only words words and words. Trapping has been with us since time immemorial and then comes the turks whom we deafeted in 1656 and then they return through the jackass who is working for birdlife and fills us with lies lies and more lies. Trapping has been a national paastime and our folks are really now getting mad at all this hogwash. Trapping is a hobby which enables those who practice this hobby to clear fields from rubbish taking care of the natural habitat so that birds can be alured to their fields, and not the hogwash this turk is telling his birdlife mates. Words are now really killing innocent people who have to stop practicing their hobby. I for one having been a trapper would ignore all this hogwash and continue practicing my hobby,., since the Government has assured me prior to becoming members that our practices will not stop. By all means let's stop killing birds, but do not stop trapping. Pay attention you are making militants out of our trapping and hunting fraternity with all these lies.. Let's stop all european pastimes in the EU before stopping us.

I Robinich

Feb 21st 2009, 15:01

Did Birdlife give the Ornis committee the negative impact on Bird Ringing? Why the Ornis Committee does not demand a report on the numbers and species of birds ringed in Malta and the mortality rate subject to this hobby undercovered as an exercise of scientific importance? Or are Birdlife not into this !!! How many qualified ornitologists not self proclaimed ones have Birdlife. Maybe these people are only extremists and if you do not support their cause you have to be exterminated, as if they form part of an extreme right cult!! In my personal opinion, MEPA did right to lay off Birdlife since they did not comply to their condition to involve all stakeholders. Also in my personal opinion MEPA does not interpretate education as the billboards Birdlife put up. They are only meant to provoke and not to educate.

Edward Camilleri

Feb 21st 2009, 14:31

@Joe Camilleri

The videos on YouTube just show how barbaric the 'pastime' of trapping has become. Be it in France and be it in Malta trapping is old-fashioned and must be abolished.

Anthony Formosa

Feb 21st 2009, 14:10

May I ask what kind of negative impact birdlife is talking about? all you hear from Birdlife is only negative and nothing positive. Trapping was abolished for some time and it defenetly proves that no bird can stay and breed on these islands. As far as I'm concerned the MIC issued this statment to the trappers.

By Carmel Attard & Elaine Cordina, MIC officers

At a glance

The European Union
and Malta agreed that:

¥ Bird trapping will
continue, even in
Spring.

¥ By the end of 2007,
Malta will carry out
a study to establish
how many songbirds
may be
captured from the
wild.

¥ No new licences
for bird trapping be
issued before the
completion of the
study.

Regarding MEPA whether supporting such a false project or not, I just quote one statement on the TMI on 9th March 2008.

"Between 2005 and 2007 MEPA granted a permit to over 2,500 developments in ODZ. "
So what is MEPA really supporting? the developers perhaps.

As Mr J camilleri said, trapping is still allowed in other EU countries, but not in Malta, WHY?

Chris Finch

Feb 21st 2009, 13:52

So You Tube is a legally binding source of information Joe? I think we need to come up with another name for the FKNK. Something like Members living in cloud cuckoo land.

Also what is telling is the fact that Malta signed a legally binding agreement prior to joining the EU to phase out trapping. So the hunters shouldnt be attacking Birdlife, but those that supposedly lied to them.

Joe Camilleri

Feb 21st 2009, 12:23

"trapping is illegal in the EU ", I do not know why birdlife malta is continuously pushing this false statment. A quick search on you-tube will give a lot of videos, taken by CABS ( Birdlife's friends) showing the legal TRAPPING of birds in the EU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJZ40T5Xdm0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBX3lWMmRc8&feature=channel_page

Maybe that is why birdlife malta is also known as birdlies malta....