German, UK warships on Malta visits

Edward Zammit

Feb 18th 2009, 22:50

@ Salvu Abela

If I'm not mistaken post-war Germany had offered to rebuild the bombed down buildings (including the opera house) from their own coffers, It was the Maltese Governments that never took up the offer !!

M.Bezzina

Feb 18th 2009, 22:27

What is so wrong to host the warships here? Lets go to the other extreme!!! So what if someone then happens to attacks us?Do you demand warships from other countries to come to defend us?This is a real extreme I know!!what if it truely happens??We are still democrats yes....Warships goes everywhere around the globe.This is like the airshow here.You find people objecting because this is a fighter or else it is not environmental friendly as an excuse!!Are we a frustrated population over here?I hope not because we complain on everything!!

c.t. busuttil

Feb 18th 2009, 19:32

War ships stopping over in our Harbour have not hosted visitors for a number of years. This is a real pity and an opportunity missed.

L..Galea

Feb 18th 2009, 17:31

c.camilleri
Thank you for confirming that these "democratic" countries use blackmail.

Alexander Morana

Feb 18th 2009, 16:50

@ c.camilleri


In your dreams.

c.camilleri

Feb 18th 2009, 16:35

Welcome to all naval vessels coming from our democratic friends. The more they come the safer we feel.. Those who object to these visits have still to go through what it means of asking for help and none is coming. We are a helpless small country and need bigger countries to safeguard our Independence. Our neutrality in the Constitution has always been an enigma in the imagination of Dom. Neutrality in case of aggression has never saved anyone. Neutrality was a joke in the past and even more now since the fall of the Berlin wall. Pls update your mentality and understand from where we can get the best for Malta and not argue about outdated policies. If we do not accept the naval vessels of these countries be ready not to receive capital investments in the form of factories for our workers.

L..Galea

Feb 18th 2009, 15:39

"This has served as a forward operating base for coalition forces in Iraq."

Ivan Grech Mintoff
You are right.
However, nothing will please more those who still have a colonialist subservient mentality among us than visits by foreign warships.

Unlike commercial ships, warships are instruments of war and being present here may provoke an attack on them by those who are being oppressed in their own countries by the warships nations.

This is apart from an accident that may happen especially if they have nuclear weapons on board.

We need commercial vessels and cruise liners, not warships.

salvu abela
The foreign office could make the same request to the German ambassador at any time.

M. Bugeja

Feb 18th 2009, 15:38

What I was trying to say in my post was that the constitution was written during a time in which the international climate was very much different than the one we have today, and as such, the constitution (I believe) needs to have certain aspects re-evaluated to be reflect the current international political order. I never said that the current constitution allows or disallows military vessels of other nations to dock in the harbour - I'm not a law expert, and I would not dare to try my hand at it.

@Ivan Grech Mintoff
"The gist in which the constitution was written was that NO SUPERPOWER would be allowed military facility in Malta. "

That's true, and I'm not saying otherwise - but then again the implications back then of having one superpower use your naval facilities would have hinted you're backing a particular horse. Of course, our neutrality would not have allowed us to do so. However, what I'm saying is that today, there is no such international tension between the larger powers. Certainly nowhere near that of the Cold War.

mario nicholas pace

Feb 18th 2009, 15:31

Are we supposed to be happy about this event ?

salvu abela

Feb 18th 2009, 15:15

While the Germans were here Malta should have asked them to donate money to rebuild the old theatre in Valletta ,after all it was their bombs that distroyed it

C Cassar

Feb 18th 2009, 14:42

Ivan Grech Mintoff: can you please specify what law is being broken? Surely occasional visits by military vessels such as these do not go against our constitution's provisions on neutrality.

Graham Crocker

Feb 18th 2009, 14:32

Ivan Grech Mintoff
You either haven't read the first page of the constitution or you haven't understood where it was coming from.

It is full of "the 2 superpowers this , the 2 super powers that" makes our constitution look like a Caribbean islands' diplomatic policy in the 1950s.

Since you've equated Soldiers with Criminals, you have implied that you understand nothing.

These ships benefit our economy which is why they are useful, drug pushers and prostitutes take money out of the economy and damage the social fabric.
One is an injection, the other is a leak. Economically speaking.
Socially speaking, I've never seen any soldier from any country behaving badly in this country.

If you feel the law is being broken, that is your choice to contact your lawyer to see what you can do. Maybe we will drop this neutrality from our constitution, times have changed and neutrality back then meant (not being Pro American nor Pro Russian), just as long as you weren't a Libyan blood brother...

Dean Adam Mifsud

Feb 18th 2009, 14:24

I`m very disappointed to hear the both ships are not opened to the public.I think the public w-ould like to have toured the both ships as I think it would have attracted locals and tourists a-like.

Ivan Grech Mintoff

Feb 18th 2009, 14:04

@ M.Bugeja

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/01075.htm

"USS Donald Cook DDG-75 on her first visit to Valletta Port, Malta on 30th December 2002. The Cook is being handled by local tugs on her way for urgent repairs at MALTA DRYDOCKS"(picture included)

"The Red Sea March 19 2003, the Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer USS Donald Cook (DDG 75) launches one of its Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles (TLAM) at military targets in Iraq"(picture included)

Our constiution states:

"(e) the shipyards of the Republic of Malta will be used for

civil commercial purposes, but may also be used, within reasonable limits of time and quantity, for the repair of military vessels which have been put in a state of NON-COMBAT or for the construction of vessels;

and in accordance with the principles of non-alignment
the said shipyards will be denied to the military vessels of the two SUPERPOWERS"


oath of allegiance:

"I,XXXX,solemnly swear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the PEOPLE and the REPUBLIC of Malta and its CONSTITUTION . So help me God."

hmmmmmm........

As you see, the rot starts creeping in very, very ,very slowly......

I will,of course be accused of being paranoid. No legal argument will however be put forward,otherwise.

Charles J Zammit

Feb 18th 2009, 13:54

@Ivan G Mintoff
I DO NOT & NEVER HAVE CONDONED ANY LAW BREAKING
If by law you are referring to Malta's neutrality clause in our constitution . I fail to see how this is being broken Neutrality does not mean warships visiting harbours . These ships are allowed goodwill visits everywhere , no matter what Nationality.You might have noticed in the past few years that warships from UK , USA, Russia China ,Libya,Italy,Tunisia and more others have visited our shores on what is rightfully goodwill visits .

Ivan Grech Mintoff

Feb 18th 2009, 13:45

@ M.Bugeja

I really don't want to side track the main point that I wanted to make but 2 points in your post brought a smile to my face:

>The constitution was written during a time in which there were two global superpowers - there's only one now.

The gist in which the constitution was written was that NO SUPERPOWER would be allowed military facility in Malta.

At the time there were two superpowers.

If there would have been three of five or whatever, the contstitution would have reflected that number.

That there is one Superpower today (arguable!) does not in anyway allow for the constitution to be broken, surely?

>These particular ships are a frigate and two mine sweeping vessels. I highly doubt they will disembark armed onto Maltese soil

A few years back we heard (more or less) the same argument being used for the USS Donald Cook (DDG 75) being repaired in our docks ( the argument was "Just a support Vessel!").

(see what the constitution says about Superpower ships being repaired in our docks!!)

This same ship went on to fire the FIRST missiles into Iraq started that horrificably bloody war(for oil)that is still raging on.

J Farrugia

Feb 18th 2009, 13:19

@ Mr Grech Mintoff. You have no mandate to speak up for me. I wholeheartely love to see foreign warships in Malta. At least they are neither commies nor dictatorial. They are just doing their duty, like our own AFM vessels would be doing if they ever have time to go to some other country on a visit.

Ivan Grech Mintoff

Feb 18th 2009, 13:13

@M. Bugeja

The constitution might have been written before Abraham & Moses. The date that it was written is irrelevant.

It is nevertheless the PRESENT law of the land and must be respected in its ENTIRETY.

Not to do so, it obviously EXTREMELY dangerous in more than just THIS respect.

If it needs to be ammended then there are LEGAL channels to do so and must NEVER be BROKEN for convenience's sake!

If it will NEVER be changed then it must therefore be UPHELD.

Especially by those who have SWORN to do so! Else their oath is nothing but a theatrical FARCE...

>I highly doubt they will disembark armed onto Maltese soil.

Just take a walk to Valletta front and see if you see anone armed.

Better still, go to Sengle Barraka and see it you see ARMED military personnel on duty overlooking the Grand Harbour.

@Mark Zerafa

See comment above.

And just to make the point clearer , I would make the same point if it werea warship from ANY other nation entering our territoty.

This has nothing to do with paranoia,communism(sic!) etc

My argument(to repect the law)is a logical one and so far I only hear emotional ones.

Ivan Grech Mintoff

Feb 18th 2009, 12:49

@ Christian Mifsud

>I cannot believe this, are we getting paranoid or something.

Since when is asking for the law to e respected being paranoid?

What's wrong with that...?

@C Zammit

>I suggest you use the singular ""me " not "us " as you surely do not represent me.

Sit down...
You may be surprised/shocked to hear that there are more than two of us around...

I take it from your comment that you CONDONE law breaking then?


>These men on these ships have been away from home doing their duty keeping sea lanes open and giving safe passage to important trade .

Not argument there. To be applauded, too!

That alone however does not give them (and our government!) the RIGHT to break the law.
If I was equally 'offering safe passage to others', then I have too no right to break THEIR laws either.

Finally, by respecting our laws, their role or stay is in NO WAY diminished.

So what IS your problem when people like me simply ask for the law to be RESPECTED?

I am expected to do so yet others seem....(repeatedly!) ABOVE the law?

Is that what you support?

A multi-tier law system?

Very dangerous proposition indeed!

Ivan Grech Mintoff

Feb 18th 2009, 12:38

Typical and usual emotional reaction. Sigh...

@Graham Crocker

>The cold war is over,
I know. It has NOTHING to do with the cold war. It has EVRYTHING to do with respecting the law.

> I agree they should change the constitution it is way past its best before date.

Before that happens do you agree that the law should be respected in FULL or not?


>I doubt anybody who isn't a communist feels that his rights are being trampled upon,

I am not a communist and I KNOW (not feel) that the law is being broken. Other non communists(!) think similarly. It is very easy to see no matter what your political belief is.

> We're past a closed economy, the cold war ended

We can all see! :)

>.....if a friendly military ship embarks on Malta and its foreign personal scatter around the island, were you see Oppression,

I have absolutely no problem in anyone visiting my country as long as they and us respect our laws. I am expected (and do likewise!) when visiting their country.

>the rest see money.

So does a prostitute and a drug pusher...

That makes it alright for the law to be broken?

Mark Zerafa

Feb 18th 2009, 12:32

Mr Grech Mintoff, I never saw any armed sailor on the quay. I do not see any problems with uniforms in any case. Actually it acts as a deterrent for some unruly behaviour.

Mr Dempster, following your argument, I sincerely hope you never had a Turkish take-away meal either... you know, The Great Siege...

M. Bugeja

Feb 18th 2009, 12:27

The constitution was written during a time in which there were two global superpowers - there's only one now. On that note, I think the constitution needs some amending, although I'm pretty sure it'll never happen.

On the other hand, sailors are hardly front line shock troops. These particular ships are a frigate and two mine sweeping vessels. I highly doubt they will disembark armed onto Maltese soil.

Christian Mifsud

Feb 18th 2009, 11:54

I cannot believe this, are we getting paranoid or something. I have not seen a foreign soldier or sailor in uniform for years. Get a life and Cool off Mr Grech Mintoff.

H Dempster

Feb 18th 2009, 11:31

How ironic to have a GERMAN warship lying in our port after all the blasting we had durin g the war

C Zammit

Feb 18th 2009, 11:29

I suggest yuo use the singular ""me " not "us " as you surely do .not represent me.
These men on these ships have been away from home doingthere duty keeping sealanes open and giving safe passage to important trade .

Graham Crocker

Feb 18th 2009, 11:09

Ivan Grech Mintoff,
The cold war is over, I agree they should change the constitution it is way past its best before date. http://www.legal-malta.com/law/constitution-1.htm

I doubt anybody who isn't a communist feels that his rights are being trampled upon, when a military ship embarks on Malta. We're past a closed economy, the cold war ended i.e. Communism lost, and if a friendly military ship embarks on Malta and its foreign personal scatter around the island, were you see Oppression, the rest see money.

Ivan Grech Mintoff

Feb 18th 2009, 10:09

Will the warships' stay in Malta be in conformity with what is written in the Constitution...??

Will we be seeing ARMED and uniformed MILITARY PERSONNEL on our land against the law of the land?

If the govt can't respect its own laws.... how can it expect others to to the same?!!

This is NOT a protest against the visting nations but a plea for our LAWS to be respected by all: foriegners AND Maltese alike.

We have reems of protest about a ban on ridiculous play (etc) making headline news (sic!) and how our 'rights' are being trampled on...

yet that the HIGHEST law of the land is conveniently being IGNORED and worsr BROKEN by those who swear in front of GOD to UPHOLD it (and who should know better anyway!) is amazingly hushed up and ignored!! Nay, apluaded even!

Simple message:

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE LAW, CHANGE IT not BREAK IT.

And until you do, don't expect respect from us.

This message goes to BOTH sides of parliament who should both and equally be FIRST to lead in respecting of the LAW and protecting it.