Daniel Bartolo, Qawra
Message of the Church on homosexuality (2)
With reference to Archbishop Paul Cremona's statement on an interview on Xarabank on February 3, that the Maltese Church does not employ people who are in an open gay relationship, I would like to know what criteria the Church uses to determine that someone is in such a relationship.
Is it through hearsay, a network of spies or through some kind of metaphysical hunch? Will the fact that two men or two women living in the same flat, be a criterion not to employ that same man or woman?
Will holding hands or kissing another man in public also be such a criterion? Will they be spying on the private lives of Maltese citizens?
Does not the Archbishop feel that through such an assertion, he is opening the door to all kinds of possible abuse and discrimination, including personal vendettas? What does the rule of law, and indeed common humanity and the Maltese Constitution say on all of this?
And does he not think that by focusing on open gay relationships, he is actually helping these relationships go underground? That is reinforcing dishonesty, hypocrisy and lying to one's employer?
And lastly, where is the Christian spirit in all of this?
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Kenneth Cassar
Feb 7th 2009, 11:46
@ Edward Caruana Galizia:
This might surprise you. The Bible is actually pro-slavery. Here is what Leviticus says about slavery:
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way". (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
And how about Exodus:
"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom...." (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property". (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
So please, dear funamentalists, stop quoting the Bible in support of your gay-bashing agenda.
Joe Xuereb
Feb 6th 2009, 22:49
I suspect that people backing their arguments by biblical quotes, Jesus said this, then he said that, - I suspect these are not random counter-arguments. I suspect there is an agenda behind all this. And I suspect this agenda to be a compliance with a belief system that says if you do this and that, you are assured of a place in heaven. Without this promise of some kind of eternal life people would not care less about who was homosexual or who wasn't. Am I right or am I right?
Edward Caruana Galizia
Feb 6th 2009, 22:32
@Busutill
The bible says nothing against slavery. So, was the liberation of millions of people out of slavery going against God's word? NO, because we know that to have been something of the time and not relevant to today. I believe it was St Paul who also said that it was a sin for men to have long hair.(1 Corinthians 11: 14-15, NIV)- So i do hope all the people who depict Jesus with long flowing brown hair know that they have just committed blasphemy.
The Church has in the past changed it s opinion on things that were, at the time, very controversial. For some reason we think that change can only happen in the past. Why can t you trust that change can happen today. In my opinion the Church is responsible for many crimes of gay-bashing, and for ruining people's lives, making them hate themselves.
Read the Bible again. You obviously know nothing about this subject.
c.bartolo
Feb 6th 2009, 20:33
furthermore. C. Busuttil... i assume the animals who kill and eat their yourng also practice heterosexual activities..... therefore with your argument, heterosexuals should also not indulge in sexual activity as they would be emulating the same animals which eat their young!!
C.Bartolo
Feb 6th 2009, 20:28
:c.busuttil... christ said "love your neighbour as thyself" He never specified as to the sex of the neighbour, just as he didnt specify that the neighbour should be of the opposite sex.
with regards to homosexuality in the animal kingdom, it is found in all the species, from the lowest insect species to the highest mammals, it is natural in the animal world, just as heterosexuality is likewise natural in the animal world. stop being so bigotted and try truly to love thy neighbour unconditionally, as Christ had preached.
Kenneth Cassar
Feb 6th 2009, 19:28
@ C.Busuttil: By the way, how can you possibly compare homosexuality between consenting adults with killing. I think it is such comparisons that are flawed, and not like-with-like comparisons (homosexuality with homosexuality) that Mr Caruana Galizia made.
Kenneth Cassar
Feb 6th 2009, 19:25
@ C. Busuttil: "These arguments" are only brought up because anti-science people say that homosexuality is "unnatural". Stop saying homosexuality is unnatural, and we will stop saying that it is found in thousands of non-human animal species - making it natural.
C.Busuttil
Feb 6th 2009, 18:26
@Edward Caruana Galizia So what if 1000 cases exist in the animal kingdom ? animals also eat or kill their offspring, are you by the way suggesting we should follow their example and kill our babies and eat them, as animals do. Stop these kind of arguments in favour of homosexuality because they are flawed. Jesus Christ never spoke about love between persons of the same sex. Please stop using Jesus when it is convenient and STOP giving Personal fancy interpretations of his word. Gays are welcome in the church only if they accept the rules, if not the door is open. @ Daniel Bartolo The church does not discriminate when it does not employ gays, so does the PN when it does not employ an MLP voter at id-dar centrali or viceversa. The church has every right like every employer to select and employ the ideal candidate which is most suitable for the position wanted. I am tired of all these antics against the church, why don't you protest with the Imam at the mosque of Paola because they are so discriminating towards gays. I will tell why, because you are afraid of their reaction.
JB Caruana
Feb 6th 2009, 17:33
Prosit ECG. Daniel Bartolo, I think the Church in Malta should state to the public their criteria for many of its operations which effect the faithful...one that comes to mind, the holding of properties to rot and decompose, properties that were left to Dar tal Providenza by the faithful in their wills.
Edward Caruana Galizia
Feb 6th 2009, 11:10
Here Here! I think that the church would love it if every gay,lesbian or bisexual were to remain silent and bend to the will of the church. The church does a lot of good, but only when it proves it right. Of course they help the poor, because that is something they should do. But when it comes to repsecting other people's freedom, and helping to create a society where everyone is respected and treated equally, it seems that the church would never want such a thing, seeing as then it would prove them wrong. When is the church going to open it s eyes and give in to science? Over 1000 cases of homosexuality within the animal kingdom have been studied, therefore it does exist in nature. but i guess thats a fact that they will just deny, just so that they can be right. They will continu to prove that the Earth is flat, so that they can be right. They dont seem to care about the lives they ruin. Way to go! And all this in the name of Jesus, a man who above all things wanted everyone to love!