Freedom of choice and the Church

David Micallef

Feb 19th 2009, 10:49

@The Board of FIlm and Stage Classification is an official appointed body forming part of the Ministry For Justice And Home Affairs. Hence no Ecclesiastical Authority ! The Roman Catholic Church can and should preach / promote its beliefs. Having a religious denomination sounding its voice is only part of the exercise of expressing freely your opinion/belief; but having a public authoritive board trying to do so, is making a statement against what has been suggested to be otherwise in EU states (2005, Interim Report, Study on Co-Regulatory Measures in the Media Sector - read my other posts re the same topic for the exact quotes). Incidentally, the censorship board has a Roman Catholic Clergy board member http://www.mjha.gov.mt/ministry/boards_and_com/boards.html ...if one would have to accept the concept of a censorship board and even worse with religious members on it, why would only one religious denomination be represented ?? And just for the record, as quoted again by myself in other posts the Roman Catholic Church does suggest in official documents that ideally one should not resort to censorship in expressive arts. But for some inexplicable reason some representatives of the local church seem to believe they're holier than the pope !

Joe Xuereb

Feb 6th 2009, 14:05

cont./ Turkey, a wonderful, wonderful country.
My friend Adem, a kind Anatolian lamb of a man if ever there was one, accompanies me to the rector's church (who told me what a wonderful Christmas service they had). I look around, slightly bemused by it all. Adem, not one for mosques, looks around, decidedly fascinated by the imagery. I just hope he does not get any funny ideas. Why rock the boat.
The rectory has normal security measures in place. Adem is exemplary but I can only vouchsafe for him. The nearest I have ever been to getting hassled is when asked about my religion and I say I was born into the Christian faith but do not observe the rituals. That seems to disappoint them and I leave it at that. No problem. I will be back. It is the peace and the beauty of the mosques that draw me. Open to non-Muslims. And Adem of course.

Joe Xuereb

Feb 6th 2009, 13:52

I travel often in eastern Turkey. I pay visits to an Italian priest, a rector in a remote Catholic diocese. No tourists. Purely social, as I am an atheist (he prays for me blah, blah). For me the religion thing is of no consequence, in Turkey as elsewhere. Sure there will be fanatics but they do not have green hair, so, like me, a homosexual, they are unrecognisable. I visit mosques, the most wondrous places. Unlike in Tunisia, in Turkey anybody can wander in, taking off the shoes, etc. Wonderful, artistic experiences. With no effigies, no idolatry. Just wonderful harmony. The underlying theme is elegance, down to the tombstones. The Turks seem religious but it is not an 'in your face' religion. They have other things to worry about. The Maltese are pressurized into knee-jerking all the time which is a pity.
Turkey is a strange contradiction. It is conservative. But men holding hands especially in villages is common. It is of course just a strong friendship. It emanates from life's insecurities. Any town of any size has its cinema, on the main street, showing strong pornographic films.. Alcohol is available. It is a muslim country but secular. cont./

D Vella

Feb 3rd 2009, 17:39

@Mr Caruana Galizia

Thank you for your favourable comment and I do realise what you meant,that's why my subsequent comment was directed at others.

Joe Bonnetti

Feb 3rd 2009, 17:22

@D.Vella: Please note that I used to work for eight years in various Arab countries such as Iran, Iraq and Egypt and being an evangelist, I carry the holy cross on me and I was always instructed to hide it. If you don't believe this go with one and try to walk with one and then tell me!!

In Malta you don't tell an Arab not to stop to pray when it's time for them to pray. But if you stop at 3pm to say the Divine Mercy, then they tell you to stop as that is an Arab country and you have to respect their religion. Do you remember when they made drawing about their Allah, or when that English\Indian writer wrote satanic versies how they pleded to kill him. So is this right to offen God with such words, unless you are a none beliver? I hope not, otherwise you should agree.

Edward Caruana Galizia

Feb 3rd 2009, 16:46

@D vella
I wasn t being nasty towards Arab countries. Of course there are liberal Arab countries. I was just pointing out to certain people that if they were in the same situation many Maltese people are in then they might have some sort of, I don't know, sympathy maybe. There are some Arab countries that do not, and I was referring to them.

Oh and well said re: your first paragraph.

D Vella

Feb 3rd 2009, 16:36

My last comment should have been addressed to Mr Bonnetti. Apologies

D Vella

Feb 3rd 2009, 16:02

.Not everyone is a Catholic and not everyone is a practising Catholic. The Church, like anyone else,has always had the right to preach on what according to Her is right or wrong ,but that's all the right that it has. It certainly cannot forcefully impose Her will and politicians have no right to dicriminate against thier Citizens simply because of their personal beliefs . There is really no need for that particular sentence to be in the Constitution at all. Malta is a Democracy. Freedom of speech is guaranteed but so should equal rights be. At the moment they are not.

As for Christ in Arabic Countries, I have been to many Arab Countries and in each one I have noticed many different Christian denominations practising their Christianity generally quite peacefully. You don't see the Cross everywhere except inside the Church or on its dome but then you don't see the Moon and Crescent everywhere here either. Indeed Arab and Christian have lived peacefully together for thousands of years.I don't really understand what you are getting at and what this has to do with human rights in this Country.

Ronald Cauchi

Feb 3rd 2009, 15:44

why can't we all mind our own business and enjoy life as we see fit? Catholics can obey the rules of their church and the rest of us can go on our merry way doing exactly what we see fit as long as we dont break any laws without having anybody's "values" being pushed down our throats.

Edward Caruana Galizia

Feb 3rd 2009, 14:43

The Church is a powerful institution. Religion in general can drive people, no matter what faith, to do anything it wants really. Sometimes it's as if the church says jump and everyone says how high? That is why it should not be allowed to influance the running of a country. Banning this play for example. If it wasn't God that was mentioned, but Buddha, would they have had a problem with it, eventhough, by definition, it is still blasphemy? The church needs to stay out of things more. It has enough influance as it is. I find the whole religion in our constitution a bit hypocritical. When people were using petrolium in their cars instead of petrol, please don't tell me the government had God in mind when they raised the price of petrolium, leaving many eldlerly people without heating.

Joe Bonnetti

Feb 3rd 2009, 14:27

@D.Vella: stated: In 1st para "The Church has no right in dictating to us how we choose to live our earthly life." then stated again that "The Church may have a right to criticize but we also have a right to ignore and live our life,however that may be, protected by the law of the land." PLEASE NOTE: You are may be right in second para, in which the Church has a right to criticize and you can ignore by law, BUT YOU FORGOT to note that the Catholic Church is also protected by the Constitution - Malta Section 2 para 2 stating "the authorities of the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church have the duty and the right to teach which principles are right and which are wrong."
The Constitution of Malta, gives the Church the right to speak & teach the right principles, & which are wrong. As George Cauci stated "the Church, for their own good, advises its followers on such a lifestyle."
The fact remain that what Mr.Ed.CaruanaGalizia stated on Arab countries is correct about Christ name and if you have crucifix on, yet we let Blasphemous words on God and Sex?

Alexander Valenzia

Feb 3rd 2009, 14:24

It is incredible how everyone just has to force his thoughts on others. The Chruch gives us guidelines based on the teachings of Christ. It is then up to each and every one of us how we decide to live. The Church does not tell us not to be happy and the Bible does not either. Try living in a country where religion does not exist, where everything and everyone basis his decisions on materialialistic values. The Chruch gives us values to follow. I can assure all that I look forward to a break in Malta after months living here in Russia. Have you ever heard anyone tell you that after four years love between a couple finishes? Well that is what they think over here. It is their choice how to live and no one has the right to judge. But I say thank you that the Church reminds us of the values of joy, respect and true love. Live joyfully the Bible says and the Church simply reminds us to do just that. When in trouble we all go to the LORD. The church is the first place we seek to find the LORD.

Joe Xuereb

Feb 3rd 2009, 11:46

The Church has wanted to save souls for so long it is not even a mantra anymore. You ask a priestly practitioner what he means by saving souls and he will be lost for words.
Freedom is understanding that every action has its outcome, good or bad. Nothing to do with religion. Church, listen, the people have spoken. Loud and clear. Once they learn to see through your ruse, they will fly. We often hear of the dictum 'people use only a fraction of their brain power'. This is indeed true. They are blackmailed into restricting their thoughts by all kinds of silly nonsense. Get over that hurdle, and the world is yours. This is called transcendence. The Church has tried to get in on the act on this one. Problem is, it has no inkling of the true meaning of the word. And people. You have the invite to the party. But you do not have to go. Have a party with like-minded friends. Solidarity. Instant. With no props.
@ Edward. Hello mate.

Vincent Zerafa

Feb 3rd 2009, 11:20

From the beginning, the bible shows us that God gave Adam and Eve the gift of free will. He didn't want to impose His will. That would not have reflected love. You cannot force someone to love you.
But because He loved them, He warned them of the consequences of ignoring His advice.
The church, in other words God's people, should do the same. We should encourage people to follow God's will so that they can experience His blessings. But it would be wrong to impose ourselves on them. God does not do that, so we cannot do that either!

Edward Caruana Galizia

Feb 3rd 2009, 11:02

@ George Gauci
Thankfully, the church doesn t have as much of a hold on the government as it used to. Thankfully, people can practice their own religion and not have to worry. However, it s people like you that make the lives of others harder to live. If the church wants to isolate itself from the rest of the world and promote what i consider to be discrimination in a society, making people believe that there is a superiour sexuality, lifestyle and what have you, and forget that ultimately you should love and respect ALL, then thats their business. But our politicians have no business forcing everyone to obey a religion.

I wonder if you ve ever been to a Muslim country where you wouldnt be able to even say the word Christ? You should spend some time in these places...then you might understand what it is like for a lot of people in malta. Or is that a bad comparison because i m talking about " the wrong religion" hahahaha...Get over yourself. How would you feel if you found out your country wanted people to look down on you?

D Vella

Feb 3rd 2009, 10:51

That would be fine provided the Church and the State become two separate entities . Let the State take care of it's Citizens,that is making sure that everyone is equal under under laws which include minorities . The Church has no right in dictating to us how we choose to live our earthly life.We must not forget those people who are not necessarily Christian let alone Catholic they too have rights. Divorce, same sex partnerships are just two of those rights.

The Church may have a right to criticize but we also have a right to ignore and live our life,however that may be, protected by the law of the land.

It's amazing if not ironic how the Church thinks of gays as evil when they are the ones preaching hate.

Robert Attard

Feb 3rd 2009, 10:42

Another thing to note is that the board must read the script to come to any decision. So what gives them the right to be eligible to be exposed to this material while the rest of us cannot! If it is immoral for all it should also be for them too.

Ramon Casha

Feb 3rd 2009, 10:38

If only the church limited itself to giving out advice, there would be no such problems. The church could advise its followers not to watch a play, or not to get divorced, or not to get married to someone of the same sex. Then people, taking into account that advice, would decide whether or not to follow the church's words.

But this is Malta, and what happens here is that the church threatens politicians with excommunication unless they impose the church's decrees on the entire population. In this way the church controls parliament, then the parliament in turn controls the country.

Kenneth Cassar

Feb 3rd 2009, 10:29

Last time I checked, the Board of Censors and the Deputy Prime Minister are not church representatives, and its not up to us to adhere or ignore the Church's teachings. Sometimes we are forced to follow Catholic teaching, either through legislation or censorship.