Tuesday, 13th January 2009
Two Labour MPs vote against Abela
Two Labour MPs voted against and 26 in favour as party leader Joseph Muscat won near unanimity within his parliamentary group yesterday over the nomination of George Abela as the next President of the Republic.
The vote was a secret one, held at the end of a heated discussion during which former leader Alfred Sant and former deputy leader George Vella were heard voicing disagreement, sources said.
An MP abstained and five were not present for the debate, being caught up with other commitments.
Contacted after the vote, the two dissenting voices would not comment.
Dr Vella said: "I will not discuss in public what was discussed in the parliamentary group. It's not on. I have no comment to make".
Asked whether his arguments during yesterday's parliamentary group meeting will have any bearing on the way he will vote when Dr Abela's nomination is moved in Parliament, Dr Vella again insisted he will not comment.
Dr Sant's reply was even shorter: "I have no comment to make".
Dr Sant and Dr Vella together with Dr Abela formed the party's winning triumvirate in 1996 before the turnaround of fortunes during the short-lived Labour Administration.
During Labour's leadership contest last year, both Dr Sant and Dr Vella had publicly denied Dr Abela's version of EU-related events between 1996 and 1998. Dr Abela had said there had been internal party discussions to try and find a compromise solution with the Nationalist opposition on the best way forward with regard to relations with the EU.
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Meta konna ncapcpu fil-Meetings u nghajtu "viva Gonzi" kien jaghti kasna
Meta konna nkantaw "flimkien kollox possibli" kien jaghti kasna GonziPN
Meta nies fil-familja tieghi ma kienux ha jivvotaw Gonzi cempel u cempel u baqa jcempel biex jaghtuh il-vot!!!!!!!!!!!
..............imma issa ghaddiet l-elezzjoni u Dottor Gonzi lin-Nazzjonalisti jahseb li jista jittrathom ta boloh u cwiec bhal mhu qed jitratta lill-bqija tal-poplu!!
Daqs kemm ta kaz lilek GonziPN sur Demartino meta skuzani nghid mort idahhaq in-nies fuq Xarabank biex tghid li il-VRT kienet se tkisser lill-PN!!!
(I'm sorry its in Maltese but since DeMartino answered me in Maltese I have to the same)
Joseph Muscat has till now in my honest opinion done a great job of trying to change the labour party. He's confronted Jason Micallef, who has honestly showed his true colours since Joseph Muscat removed a lot of his power. He has gone against many labourites who now show they really were against change and were just all talk about it. I initially thought of joseph muscat as a Tony Blair look-a-like front for Labour...in-experienced, young and fresh. I'm also thinking that many of the labour delegates thought the same thing. Wow, what a suprise when Joseph Muscat actually put change into motion in Labour.
Sadly Labour is still a split faction with it's different factions and different ideas. Untill the party is honestly and completely united, I cannot see PL as a satisfying Opposition. I hope that things do turn around because I find it hard to think the PN could win 4th election.
Is that what the Prime minister meant by new attitudes and action? Is that the official PN take on democracy ? I will assume you misinterpreted the party line.
How arrogant! Don't worry ... in 4 years' time you would be following Dr Joseph Muscat's lead and you will finally notice the difference!
Could you kindly let us know how much was your last bill and the bill you just recieved.
From 6 households (and counting) of varied number of persons the increase was of approx 18% to 20% from September to November.
Give us evidence of the 185% please or else shut up as your comments would be unfounded.
I suggest to the times, they set up a service where people can scan there bills and send them to the times so that they can calculate the increase.
sadly enough.
GOOD JOB !TO BOTH PARTIES !
You say those who oppose the BRILLIANT move by the Prime Ministers appointment of George Abela as the next President!!! I agree with you. Can you tell us why YOU think it's a brilliant move? Are you admitting there is bright candidates in the PL.? Does ABC know what you are saying? Is he still going to be your web buddy anymore?
"Joe Vella...Why? where you involved in something similar?"
Not at all. I do not belong to the PL and never did belong to the MLP/PL either.
Such things only happens in Political Parties like the PL that nature such culture.
@ Joe Vella,
Mr.Vella I have no idea what makes you think that I'll be left dumbfounded.
"No matter what the reason is behind he/she voted againest, the fact remains that it's a free vote. "
Mr. Fenech,
When on base his judgement on hate, personal vendettas, eye for an eye type of reasoning and then vote as he/she wishes I guess yes you can call that democracy.
When one base his judgement on wisdom, reason, knowledge, without any prejudice and then vote as he/she wishes I believe this is called Democracy as well.
Now I let you in your wisdom tell me which is the healthiest form of Democracies, perhaps you will be enlighten a little bit and understand my previous response to you.
Continue to knock ones head against the wall doesn't do one good either. The better advice is for one to move.
This is parallel to the EU issue: first they told their supporters anything imaginable against the EU, then they told them that it was not so bad after all!
I understand why so many PL supporters are so confused.
That's what democracy is all about.
As according to you all, we have to say yes and agree with everything that is done in our beloved island.
As for those lving abroad should take head and see what good can they do in the country they are living in at present or else come and live here and show us how sthings should be done.
We are not ostriches.....we are democratic people
Are you supporting Gonzi's so-called "smart" moves with this arrogant and nasty attitude???
Is it not very convenient for Dr. Joseph Muscat to see Dr. George Abela as President, and remove any possibility of being challenged again for the leadership of the PL in four years time?
I wish Dr. George Abela every success. His new position is likely to put him in some uncomfortable situations watching his own Party committing serious errors of judgement again and again.
Sant (bhal Gonzi illum) ma jaghtix kas x'nghidu ahna!! mela ghalfejn ghandi naghti kaz x'jghid hu???
Mr.Vella I have no idea what makes you think that I'll be left dumbfounded.
No matter what the reason is behind he/she voted againest, the fact remains that it's a free vote.
Most of the time on the PN said he/she have to follow party lines,can't vote as they WISH.
AND MY FRIEND THAT'S NOT DEMOCRACY.
Someone had the gall to prefer George Vella as President !!!??
Lejburisti, hawwduni ha nifhem!
Joseph Muscat and Arnold Cassola have become hostages of their own presumptuousness.
They were discussing a potential candidate when AD can have no vote in this matter and when its leader Arnold Cassola was voting not for a Maltese President in Malta but for an ex-Communist Italian one in the Italian Parliament!
Cassola has already described such person in the Times and his description does not fit George Abela at all. It is quite evident that Abela could never have been Muscat’s first choice either as Muscat's first choice would have been his long-time mentor George Vella.
It was quite fake yesterday for Muscat to make a statement in his own party headquarters trying (again) to politicise a most statesmanlike choice made by the Prime Minister and enjoying very wide support.
The men who come out with their stature enhanced in all this are the two protagonists: Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi and to-be-President George Abela.
Hail both!
Il-gebla li jwarbu l-bennejja, issir il-gebla tax-xewka.
@J.Cassar
" Labour ideas are emerging to the top."
Surely you must be joking!!!!
"To ALL PN APOLOGISTS,
I truly feel sorry for all those poeple commenting here that do not understand what a true DEMOCTATIC VOTE is.
Because he's one of your own that dose'nt mean you MUST vote for him.
UNLESS THAT'S WAY IT WORKS ON THE PN SIDE. VOTE AS YOU'RE TOLD."
Mr. Michael Fenech there is no need to feel sorry for anyone and there is no need for any PN to apologise to .
You are quite right in you first part of your statement, and I totally agree with you in that one doesn't have to vote for an individual because he/she belong to the same party.
However, when one voice his/her dissent based on prejudice, personal vendetta and/or other illogical reason might be demonstrating his democratic right to vote the way he/she did.
My question to you, Who's interest does that serves? Malta's? PL? His own, I doubt?
I am sure that this left you dumbfounded?
"@Mr/Ms IGalea
You seem to enjoy yourself so much by referring to the "Gonzipn" slogan. May I remind you that thanks to that slogan the PN won the last general election!"
l. Galea and company still don't get it. Ssshhhhhhhhhhhh, let them daydream.
Is it not true that Gonzipn did absolutely nothing about the illegal immigrats invasions as he himself had called it?
How many illegal immigrats have been repatriated?
Why was the ship not ordered to sail away and that no illegal immigrants will be allowed to land in Malta?
Can we have the vote of the Gonzipn Parliamentary Group?
Manuel Mifsud
"You seem to enjoy yourself so much by referring to the "Gonzipn" slogan..."
So what's wrong with referring to Gonzipn?
Do you really know how a party works internally??
Do you really think that when a vote is taken internally in a party all will be in favour or all against eh ?? If this what happens in the PN I feel sorry for them.
Who took Joseph by Surprise??
What a joke!!! With Joseph at the helm of the party and with his team il Gonz and his strategists know that certain tactics they used with the previous leader, this time won`t work!!
mux hekk p aquilina !
joseph u dr sant l ahjar zewg mexxeja li qatt kellu u li ghandu l labour
joseph muscat l generazzjoni rebbieha!!
HOW TYPICAL OF JOSEPH TO SAY THAT ABELA WAS ON HIS MIND TOO!!
LOL ...THIS COUNTRU NEEDS A MATURE OPPOSITION LEADER NOT A NOVICE..GEORGE ABELA WOULD HAVE BEEN THE RIGHT MAN FOR THE JOB!
I truly feel sorry for all those poeple commenting here that do not understand what a true DEMOCTATIC VOTE is.
Because he's one of your own that dose'nt mean you MUST vote for him.
UNLESS THAT'S WAY IT WORKS ON THE PN SIDE. VOTE AS YOU'RE TOLD.
"Dear everybody,
Please allow me to differ on the George Abela issue.
The agreement on the proposal does not necessarily mean that we are entering a new phase of doing politics in Malta. THE ABILITY TO EXPRESS A DISAGREEMENT WITH YOUR OWN PARTY ON CERTAIN ISSUES DOES.
For ages we've seen gentlemen swallow their opinion just because their leader imposed a decision upon them. ...................................... Disagreeing on one issue should never be a sign of a divided party. It should be the sign of a dynamic party, who knows how to discuss issues to the fullest, giving all possible space to dissenting opinions.
Such dissenting opinions are ALWAYS present within the grassroots of any party. So why shouldn't they be present within the representatives of the voters ? ....................,dissent, whilst we look down on Sant and Vella for expressing their view on the president's appointment issue!"
I totally agree with you. However, when that dissent is based on despised of a person and not on reason or logic that dissent is not welcomed. This form of dissent is based on the lines of a personal vendetta, and not what is good for the Country.
1974- Approval of Malta's Republican Constitution
A free vote was directed to all our parliamentarians.
All 28 MLP's MP's voted Yes
Of the 27 PN's MP's 21 voted yes and 6 voted no. (amongst them the father of Malta's Independence, Dr. George Borg Olivier)
At that time, PN was depicted as a divided party, whilst the Mintoffian block was viewed as a unified lot.
History proved otherwise. It proved that the MLP block was not a unified block, but a scared block; scared to go against the word or their leader; Dom Mintoff. Dr. Borg Olivier is never remebered for voting "no at all costs", but for his coherence in standing for what he believed was right. Even during those event in history where he stood absolutely alone. He always stood for what he valued.
Sant and Vella may be wrong in their opinion, but let us not insult them for being coherent in what they believe is right.
"
This reminds me of the Mintoff/Sant saga. Dr Muscat should be on the watchout. Now I understand what he means when he mentions the difficult decisions which he will take and which will not be understood by everyone."
Mr. Mifsud this was not a decision that Joseph Muscat had to make. It was a decision that was forced on him by Gonzi, and which Joseph Muscat had no choice but to accept unconditionally
"To comment negatively on this article one has to know what was the outcome of the Governments vote.
I think it is only fair, right?"
Not quite right Mr. O'Cassey since Mr. Abela came from the PL ranks and not from the PN ranks.
"The two parties must give a FREE and secret vote in Parliament when the time comes."
Parliament belongs to the People, and the People ought to know to hold its' Representatives accountable.
Malta is a Democratic State and not some Communist State. Only in Communist States, that the Peoples' business is conducted in secrecy, Mr./Ms/Mrs. M. Gerada
"M Farrugia...do you have any idea what a democratic vote is?"
I think I do. First start with a dirty letter campaign, then at the end stuff the ballot box. How is that for a democratic vote, Mr. Camilleri.
MIN KIEN???
So, may I ask Joseph why it took from December 29 to January 9 for the LP to make up its mind? Was it because Dr. Sant, George Vella and Jason were/are absolutely against the nomination?
So typical of Joseph. Something good happens and immediately he tells us that he already had it in mind to do something similar, or recommend it or back the government!
He can fool all people some f the time, he can fool some people all the time, but he cannot fool all the people, all the time!
So predictable!
Your arguments are really very weak.
Commenting about illegal immegration certainly does not reply to my comments about the grave deficiencies within PL....all your argument does is attempt to divert attention elsewhere.
I am pretty sure that you stand alone in your political strategy.... Joseph Muscat has walked away from the Alfred Sant dodgy tactics that you keep adopting. Your comments are damaging PL.
You seem to enjoy yourself so much by referring to the "Gonzipn" slogan. May I remind you that thanks to that slogan the PN won the last general election!
You seem to support a left wing Party BUT your comments are extreme right. You attack opponents who are courageous enough to admit mistakes on their side BUT at the same time you insist that what you say is infallible. With persons like you Labour stands to lose, you only have to read the PL election report to understand what I mean.
I hope that Dr.Sant will not hold it against 'The Times', once again, for revealing this 'olds', considering the fact that he used the 'independent' daily 'L-Orrizzont' to put forward certain advises to his party when he could easily have done that in the parlamentary group.
Please allow me to differ on the George Abela issue.
The agreement on the proposal does not necessarily mean that we are entering a new phase of doing politics in Malta. THE ABILITY TO EXPRESS A DISAGREEMENT WITH YOUR OWN PARTY ON CERTAIN ISSUES DOES.
For ages we've seen gentlemen swallow their opinion just because their leader imposed a decision upon them. We've voted to whomever will give us the most difficult "pjaciri", rather than to whomever had the strongest altruistic personality based on beliefs and values. Disagreeing on one issue should never be a sign of a divided party. It should be the sign of a dynamic party, who knows how to discuss issues to the fullest, giving all possible space to dissenting opinions.
Such dissenting opinions are ALWAYS present within the grassroots of any party. So why shouldn't they be present within the representatives of the voters ? So on one hand we glorify JPO for being the only PN parlamentarian who has the guts to show a mild sense of dissent, whilst we look down on Sant and Vella for expressing their view on the president's appointment issue!
Coherence please .
I consider this article as very optimistic - Labour is being transparent more than anytime before. It is upholding a democratic process where ideas are shared throughout and no longer afraid of media!
PN is the party "behind close doors", its relationship with the man in the street or at work is ruined and this is clearly shown in the accounting exercises done by Gonzi, Austin and Tonio when they come to discuss particular social cases!
Democracy = we have to say yes and agree with everything.
What a laugh.
As for those asking for the PN vote you are wasting your time as it won't be published.
And if it is we will be told that everybody agreed......and we will be asked to believe it.
However, to tell you the truth I would have never imagined (or rather I would have) that any LP MP would have voted against one of their kind - one of their family. However, from personal experience I would have to contradict myself and think that yes, they usually would do that, because sometimes the LP members find it more entertaining to fight between themselves rather than do decent politics! Whoever voted against should have been carried away by this sudden political maturity that has hit Malta and put aside his animosity towards Dr. Abela and voted in favour. So all of Malta is maturing politically except these two or more individuals - and we are only speaking about the Parliamentary Group! Imagine what is there in the committees, districts and branches!
Gonzipn = Kawlata nobis.
What about the vote was in the Gonzipn?
As for the pn running the country satisfactorily we can easily see the results especially with the mass invasion of illegal immigrats and the incompetence of not sending them back.
Gonzi was rightly commended on choosing a person who unites the country-but alas-look at the result-people from his own camp are against him! Can you imagine the Labour Party nominating a President from the PN side if they cannot even agree between themselves on people from their own side!! It's a shame
I will keep waiting ....
With regards to democracy, yes, it does not mean that everyone must agree, or else! No, it means that people could be in favour and others against any issue. What is important is that the decision taken by the majority is then followed - that is all!!!!
And as far as I know, Dr. Joseph Muscat who ultimately is PL Leader, had already named Dr. George Abela as one of his preferred candidates and 2 against 26 votes means that PL is in favour of George Abela to be the next President, as Dr. Muscat and Dr. Gonzi both wish!
Anything wrong with that?????
Sure, different ideas within a party is expected (and required) because every MP each represent a different section of the population, but for heavens sake PL really needs a direction before they make it to government otherwise they will not have the voting majority of the cabinet and will not pass one single law.....and they will be back in opposition after 22 months with a new name of TTP (The Temporary Party).
PN have their own mistakes but at least they run the country satisfactorily well.
PL cannot organise their own house let alone run the country.
I think it is only fair, right?
I am therefore under the impression that one of our representatives had decided to reveal secret discussions and divulge secret information to the public. I am eager to know who this person is, in order to explain this move.
One may ask what was the outcome of the Nationalist parliamentary group for the approval of GA as President of the Republic.
Good luck Dr. George, Labour ideas are emerging to the top.
At one point we want political parties, and the PL to be democratic, and then we attack its democratic process. I would have been shocked myself had the vote been unanimous!!!