Church 'not open to IVF'

Joe Zammit

Jan 15th 2009, 19:39

The Catholic Church has always followed and will always continue to follow, even in our Catholic Maltese islands, the mandate Christ has given her, namely to teach ALL NATIONS what is good to be done and what is evil to be avoided. What is good and what is evil apply to individuals, to MPs, to states and governments and to one and all. We don't want evil to creep in our Maltese society. Evil harms us seriously and we will oppose it strongly. God created man and man is obliged to follow God's will in both his private and public life. In IVF children are not born out of love but out of an impersonal mechanical way. That is not according to God's plan. God created us and only he has the right to tell us how to beget children for the kingdom of heaven.

Jeremy J Camilleri

Jan 14th 2009, 22:33

Joe Zammit is the best example of how important a secular society is....

Its people like him who remind us how the Chruch has sought, and succeeded in brain washing people!!!!!

Thanks Joe

Joe Zammit

Jan 14th 2009, 17:53

Thank God, the Catholic Church is always on the increase. Annual statistics prove that. Thank God, the majority of Maltese and Gozitans love the Church and listen to her word. The great majority of our MPs are practising Catholics. What the Church says about IVF does not invent it herself. It is based on the infallible teaching that she has received from her God-man founder Jesus Christ. We continue to listen and behave the way taught by the Church. Her word is the Word of God. Christ founded the Christian Catholic Church to guide us on earth on our way to heaven. Prosit Knisja Kattolika, il-Maltin u l-Ghawdxin huma warajk!

Jeremy J Camilleri

Jan 13th 2009, 21:59

Joe Zammit returns with his usual rethoric...

Dear Joe...you are talking to people who have not been brain washed from birth.

Could you please respect that?

In reality, the way you write just reminds most people of the bad, sad side of religion..so really,you're just putting people off!

Ps...The sacrament of marriage ....key word...Borgia...look it up

Melissa Bagley

Jan 13th 2009, 21:30

Can anyone volunteer to point to me WHERE is it mentioned in the Bible that IVF goes against Christ's teachings?

malcolm seychell

Jan 13th 2009, 21:26

No wonder why thousands are leaving the Catholic church by the day.

Joe Zammit

Jan 13th 2009, 16:56

The Catholic Church does not invent new doctrine. She has the deposit of Faith and of Truth revealed to her by God, especially through Christ, and she applies that infallible doctrine to particular cases that crop up from time to time. Those who know well what the Church teaches, for instance, on the 5th and 6th commandments and on the sacrament of marriage will come to the same conclusion expressed by the Theological Commission.

Joe Tabone-Adami

Jan 13th 2009, 15:33

"Eppur, si muove". A self-declared 'atheist' with a smacking of disjointed Church history and an abused, over-used, and stale cliche is more to be pitied than railed.

R.A. Cilia

Jan 13th 2009, 15:19

Mr Casha--you got me there man...i have to admit i got a tingling from the "pur si muove" bit but your mentioning a bearded guy reminded me of an old canon at the vatican, whom i met roughly five years ago and whom, i'm told, is still alive and who i reckoned, could've gone bonkers or so, giving much food for the press to prey upon :p

however, i still have qualms with the inquisition imagery which personally i find so unrealistic as regards today's Church. many speak of the Church as distant, yet i know of couples whom the bishop met in his residential home so as to hear their concerns regarding not being able to conceive and so on, one in particular asking his opinion on ivf, to which the bishop, per this couple, reiterated the church's position while simultaneously showing respect if they thought otherwise. my point is that respect for others' opinions is prevalent in the church, the reason why the church upholds certain "traditional" precepts to safe guard rather than condemn, the sense of awe at the significance of *any* human life, excluding it from matter that's tampered with, triggering this.

Ramon Casha

Jan 13th 2009, 13:57

Aww come on Mr. Cilia, don't tell me you didn't get the "eppur' si muove" reference! That phrase is attributed to Galileo Galilei, forced to recant in exchange for reducing his sentence to a lifetime house imprisonment. Certainly heliocentrism is no longer a church dogma, but back in his day things were different - contradicting it brought you under the delicate ministrations of the Holy Roman Inquisition.

The church is adopting a similarly obstinate position today in a number of areas, among them divorce, gay marriage and IVF. While the inquisition has lost its teeth, its bark seems to be just as strong - and when that bark starts influencing the laws of the country, people are right to get worried.

Oh and in case you were wondering, no - that was not a verbatim transcript of the Galileo trial :)

d. borg

Jan 13th 2009, 13:50

The Church should be nearer to its faithful and try to understand the problems and suffering childless couples who would like to start a family, go through. After all Christ could not have been against IVF, it is something the Church decided.

Jason Borg

Jan 13th 2009, 13:19

Why all this hullaballo whenever an article appears about the Church's teachings? Nobody is being forced by anybody to obey them. This is Roman Catholicism not Fundamentalist Islam. These guidelines are aimed for those who voluntarily want to observe them. Nobody is having his/her freedom of choice taken from him/her.

R.A. Cilia

Jan 13th 2009, 11:05

Mr Casha would do well to double check his source (which he did not specify) before quoting by visiting the following link, (http://www.catholicfirst.com/thefaith/churchdocuments/dogmas.cfm), discovering upon doing so that geocentricism is not a Church dogma, meaning that either his source was wrongly using his thesaurus so as to render his point more emphatic or that he was not reporting properly to start with.

this goes for all reports; upon reading, one has to keep in mind that not all that's written has been actually been pronounced by the party concerned -- not having seen a press release or anything of the sort, we cannot conclude that the verb "accept" was actually used. Knowing Fr Hector Scerri in person and vouching for his integrity, I cannot fathom him being so inconsiderate in this instance.

Ramon Casha

Jan 13th 2009, 10:31

CHURCH NOT OPEN TO HELIOCENTRISM

Church officials stood firm against recent moves to introduce the teaching that the earth orbits the sun, in direct contradiction of the long-held church tradition and dogma that the earth is at the centre of the universe. "Such heresies have no place among devoted Catholics", said a Curia representative.

"Eppur si muove" said an unidentified bearded man on condition of anonymity from his prison cell to reporters.

R. A. Cilia

Jan 13th 2009, 10:25

Notwithstanding much effort I never manage to come to terms with such reasoning as that postulated by Mr Fiorentino, which, in the name secularisation, speak against an NGO as not having the right to have a say, be it the Church or any other organisation that has been legally set up. The same principles that allow you to express your opinion, sir, foster the expression of other people's/groups' ideas too.

Moreover, since when has the Church had a veto as to what gets legislated in these islands, or otherwise? Of course, it has a certain bearing in that it represents many Maltese citizens, but, to my knowledge, up to now, there's no such thing as a Church-consenting body that does away with or upholds laws. in other words, grow up and stop using the Church as a scapegoat--if our politicians are wary of legislating in favour of or contrary to some issue, it's not because their village kappillan has told them so.

M Mallia

Jan 13th 2009, 10:22

Let me guess - The next step being that before agreeing to baptise a child, the church would ask for proof as to how such child was conceived.

Would it not be better for the church to rid itself of all the known "holy" abusers (be they priests, nuns or members of the laity) and make their names public, rather than cover them in - and protect them by - a shroud of secrecy within its own confines?

jane mifsud

Jan 13th 2009, 10:07

mr fiorentino i don't agree with you. i think that the church should be included in the discussions when it comes to regulate ivf procedures. HOWEVER, it should make its stand clear. if it feels like turning more people away from it (as it seems to be doing, and mind you i'm catholic but i don't agree with the stand it's taking) the church can do so by rejecting ivf.

if the church doesn't want to see more people distancing themselves from it, members from the church should sit down with those couples who are having problems when it comes to having children. it should first analyse the feelings of these people and see the stress it inflicts on the marriage.

while agreeing to its stand about needing donors and surrogates for procreating, i do not agree with its stand when it comes to ivf when the persons involved are the biological parents. i think that St James' practice (where no embryos are frozen) is a very moral and sensible one.

Jeremy J Camilleri

Jan 13th 2009, 09:57

The church does not accept.....the church suggests....using accept just goes to show their mentality!

Mark Fiorentino

Jan 13th 2009, 09:42

The church HAS (or should have) NO SAY when it comes to IVF legislation. Are we a secular country or not?