Saturday, 29th November 2008 - 10:27CET
German Green MEP in Malta next week to discuss proposed Ghadira road
German Green MEP Michael Cramer, a specialist on transport issues, will be in Malta next week to discuss the proposed road in Ghadira with Minister Austin Gatt, Alternattiva Demokratika chairman, Arnold Cassola announced.
Prof. Cassola said that since it wasplanned that this road be financed by EU monies, it was only right to ensure that the EU and Maltese taxpayers' money was invested in a proper and sustainable way.
"AD supports the position taken by Din l-Art Helwa that government should make all available studies on the proposed road public,” he said.
Carmel Cacopardo, AD's spokesman on sustainable development said the Ghadira Nature reserve was a special area of conservation protected in terms of the Habitats’ Directive.
"The road as proposed by government will have a negative effect on the nature reserve through bringing both traffic noise and light pollution much closer to the said reserve. We are still not convinced that it will not damage the tourist investment at the Danish Village, as well as the Nature Reserve in Ghadira," Mr Cacopardo said.
Transport spokesman Ralph Cassar said it was good that consultations werebeing held with Birdlife and the Danish Village management, "but we expect a public consultation at the earliest possible. The Ghadira nature reserve is administered by Birdlife on behalf of the Maltese and Gozitan community and ultimately it is this community that has to be convinced and satisfied that this project is really needed and well planned."
AD, he said, joined the call made by NGOs for the Minister to publish any studies regarding beach erosion, if these existed.
Mr Cramer sits on the European Parliament's Transport Committee.
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Comments
This argument has turned into a personal attack from your side. My only intention is for truth to prevail. Therefore, your insistance that the Ghalqa/Ghadira Tat-Tajjar was used as a car park is FALSE. I can vouch for this as I enjoyed this area during my early childhood, my childhood, my teens and, up to the time allowed, during my older age.
LOL you slipped again.
Yes I know that you are about my age but quoting you AGAIN....."Sir, when I was playing in the Ghalqa/Ghadira tat-Tajjar, you were still attached to your mother's apron. ", AGAIN shows that you didn't know that at that time.
And hey be fair for once. You did not say "birdwatching in your childhood" but "birdwatching in your EARLY childhood" and that doesn't mean when you're in your teens. Well I leave it to the readers to decide (even though no one will be reading this LOL)
Anyway and a Happy New Year to you too.
What you quote does in no way show that I did not know your age. Where you birdwatching in your childhood? In fact you have admitted that you did this in your teens. Well, you should know that I am your age BUT I did not start visiting Mellieha Bay in my teens. I spent my childhood and teens at Mellieha Bay during summer. I still do, with the only difference that I can visit CERTAIN areas on Sundays ONLY!!!
If you still insist that I did not know your age, it is only thanks to the Editor who did not allow me to disclose the exact information about your previous employment and the age you joined the Bank!
Finally, I reciprocate your wishes for a Happy Christmas and the New Year!
As for my age, yeah sure, the below 3 quotes from your posting shows cleary that you had a good idea of my age :-
(1) “In fact, the area we are disputing about was in the past used as a hunting area by a noble person, and I clearly remember this. I believe you weren't around at the time."
(2) "How can you arrive at a correct judgement when you DO NOT "remember that very well"!! "
(3)"Instead of quoting me, you should have tried to reason out whether you were birdwatching in your early childhood!! "
Just the same....Happy Christmas to you and yours.
And BTW, I did substantiate my claim that I am perfectly aware of your age and your employment, however the editor chose not to print it!
Factual arguments...yeah sure. At least, in my case there was once when I realised that you were right and I admitted. You said that that was a breath of fresh air. I suppose neither I nor any other reader who disagrees with you will ever have a breath of fresh air as far as you are concerned….and that is not because you are always right.
As for your FKNK argument, I feel it is about time that you accept that I am NOT a hunter, NOT attached to any organisation, do NOT have to please anyone, and as such can be objective in my writings. I know you do not like the situation and find it hard to accept it, but in life there are things which we do not like and yet have to accept. PACENZJA, Mr. RCZ!
LOL that is exactly why you messed this all up when jumping blindly into conclusion about my age and saying that I can’t possibly remember etc etc….because you remember when I joined the bank but you didn’t know the fact that that wasn’t my first job and I had been employed elsewhere for many years.
As for the FKNK, I am sure that it’s not a case because you are not a puppet etc etc, it is just because they took some time to issue their press release and you had already blurted out what you had to say just to despise Birdlife and totally ignoring the natural environment, otherwise your “song” would have been different. Don’t forget that normally you always refer to things the FKNK says as FACTS even when they are scientifically incorrect. Remember the Turtle Dove in China????
"What I know is that you started this whole thing by posting comments in favour of the new road and now the FKNK itself is against this project and has proved YOU wrong" Your statement confirms that I am indeed independent and not a puppet on a string for any organisation. Remember you used to doubt this?! Well you have now provided evidence to prove yourself wrong once again. Furthermore, this is childish behaviour on your part - I quoted BirdLife for you and as a child does you wanted to do the same. Grow up Sir.
I confirm once again what I have been stating: THE GHALQA/GHADIRA TAT-TAJJAR WAS NEVER USED AS A CAR PARK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And BTW I never doubted your age as I remember you joining the Bank! And as I said, you look your age!!!
You keep saying that you used to “enjoyed playing in this area”, and I’m sure that in the 70’s you were already too old to play, so probably during those years you didn’t frequent that area “every single summer day”. Probably your memories go back to the 60’s whilst I am refering to later years. Whatever…as I said all this is documented and can easily be checked.
I have read everything that Birdlife has published re this issue and nowhere did I read anything that proves me wrong. What I know is that you started this whole thing by posting comments in favour of the new road and now the FKNK itself is against this project and has proved YOU wrong.
Oh and BTW, the challenge is still on. You still have to substantiate your accusation that I approve of others who trespass on private property.
LOL I expected this from you. So my “You are really not worth arguing with" is my "irtirata” according to you. So what about your “And please Sir I will not be replying to any further baseless arguments” and again “Sir, this is my final contribution to this senseless argument!” (see below). I should have made the same remark but I’m not that childish…even though you insist that I am younger than I am.
Again when you said that “you should have tried to reason out whether you were birdwatching in your early childhood!!” shows clearly that even though I told you exactly my age, you are still confused about it. I started birdwatching in my teens in the early 70’s. The work on the Ghadira Nature Reserve started in 1980 and by that time I was already 23 years old so unlike you, I’m not relying on childhood memories. As I have already mentioned, but you seem to be missing, is that what I’ve been saying can be checked on reports and documents about the area published throughout the years.
Instead of quoting me, you should have tried to reason out whether you were birdwatching in your early childhood!! It was at that time, that I enjoyed playing in this area not just on Sundays as I am restricted now (due to the Nature Reserve) but every single summer day.
I reiterate that I never made an assumption about your age - I assure you, you look it!
Even your colleagues at BirdLife have proved you wrong. The parking area was nearer to the beach than the Ghalqa/Ghadira tat-Tajjar. You are wrong and consequently all your senseless arguments are baseless. So please stop wasting my time!
Your "You are really not worth arguing with" is your "irtirata' and your scapegoat. Readers would have expected your admission that you were wrong. But that is proving to be too difficult for you.
I rest my case here. You might find gullible readers to believe whatever you say BUT trying to convince me about something which I have experienced in my childhood is a non-starter!!!
“In fact, the area we are disputing about was in the past used as a hunting area by a noble person, and I clearly remember this. I believe you weren't around at the time."
What did you mean by that....that I was abroad or something. Also further down you wrote:-
"How can you arrive at a correct judgement when you DO NOT "remember that very well"!! "
Are you suggesting that I have dementia????
No the fact is that you made a wrong assumption about my age to try and win the argument and now you are too proud to admit it.
As for the area being used as salt pans….big deal, what does it prove???? Does it prove that cars didn’t park in the area during the summer months???? Are you going to start another argument just for the sake of arguing as usual.
You are really not worth arguing with and I will join the others who ignore you.
Oh and BTW, even I know you.
Sir, when I was playing in the Ghalqa/Ghadira tat-Tajjar, you were still attached to your mother's apron. Stop saying untruths, this area WAS NEVER USED FOR PARKING! If you think you are the only one who has photos, you are mistaken. Stop your obsession in baseless accusations and take some time to read what BirdLife had to say about this area. I quote from The Malta Independent: "Before the road had been built, the area today comprising the nature reserve had consisted of salt pans". These 'salt pans' were actually referred to as the Ghalqa/Ghadira tat-tajjar. Now, if you want to say that your colleagues at BirdLife are likewise being arrogant, it is up to you to decide. However, readers will judge for themselves.
SO MUCH FOR BEING ACCURATE AND FACTUAL, SIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First you said that I couldn’t possibly remember because you just assumed WRONGLY that I was younger and now you’re telling me that it couldn’t be that I used to go birdwatching there. Who are you to tell me ABOUT MY LIFE?????
Yes the area was leased to a person who used to go hunting there for ducks but by summer, that same area dried up and people used to park cars in that same area. Stop insisting about this matter because as I already said this fact is documented in reports about the area compiled at that time. And it is a fact that I used to frequent that area for birdwatching. Birdlife (MOS at that time) even used to have outings there. Even this fact is documented. I have photos of the area as it was before the Nature Reserve was created so don’t come and tell me that I don’t know the area.
Unfortunately your arrogance has no limit, so much so that you first accused me of approving of others who trespass on private property and instead of substantiating your claim as I insisted, you blame ME of accusations. Hallina trid.
So please, stop your usual tactics of accusing others without backing your arguments with facts!!!
So Ms. ZD, again I challenge you to show me where and when I ever said that I approve of others who trespass on private property. You have made an accusation and you have to substantiate it.
Sir, this is my final contribution to this senseless argument!
So I am the one who is throwing accusations. Again I challenge you to show me where and when I ever said that I approve of others who trespass on private property. If you are not replying it is because YOU CANNOT.
As for the Ghalqa/Ghadira Tat-Tajjar...yes I remember that very well and I also remember very well that the area was used as a car park in summer and yet, according to you, it is NOW that the natural environment of the area has been ruined. You are so blinded by your obsession against Birdlife that you don’t even realise that it is the road that is being blamed for causing the degradation of the beach and not the Nature Reserve. Nobody said that the Nature Reserve has ruined the area or is damaging the beach. Only an extremist who hasn’t the slightest idea of what nature conservation is, would say such a thing.
In my childhood I remember Ghadira Bay together with the "Ghalqa/Ghadira Tat-Tajjar" and I assure you that that natural heritage has been ruined. If we can do anything to stop further destruction I will surely be one to encourage it!
And please Sir I will not be replying to any further baseless arguments.
I challenge you to show me where and when I ever said that I approve of others to trespass on private property.
Nobody mentioned hunting and hunting has got nothing to do with this issue and yet it is clear that that is the only subject that concerns you and not what is the best for our natural heritage.
As for the flamingo, is it possible that you missed the picture on this newspaper with blood all over its neck and belly??? And are YOU against the Nature Reserve??? If that is not being biased I don’t know what is.
Please, please, Ms ZD, stop inventing things and stick to the subject.
You see, Sir, how unbiased you are!! Readers can judge for themselves!!!!!!!
And BTW, is that Flamingo the same one which, not so long ago, was said to have been badly injured by hunters?! Well, at that point it was used to serve your purpose (against hunters), this time it is being used to sustain your argument in favour of the Nature Reserve!
Please, please, Mr. RCZ, stop attributing things which pertain to you, in my regard!
As always what you write shows clearly not only who you really are but also your lack of knowledge about the subject. You said that I care only about birds. So Ms Zarb Darmanin, did it ever pass your mind that to care about wild birds you have also to care about the environment. Without protecting the environment you cannot protect birds...GET IT.
And the birds you mentioned are they mine???? NO. They belong to everyone including future generations. That shows cleary my respect towards others.
One other thing Ms Zarb Darmanin....take the example of the Hypogeum. That is part of OUR national heritage and belongs to everyone, and yet you and I don't just go in there whenever we feel like it. Why? Because as you well know, access to everyone without control results only in damage. The same thing can be said about the Ghadira Nature Reserve. Do you really believe that if everyone could go there whenever they please, that Flamingo would still be there??? Ms Zarb Darmanin…Just like myself, you can visit the reserve on weekends and it is FREE. Hundreds of people do that each year.
Can you please enlighten me as to the respect YOU have towards others?! And please, Sir, stop using yor usual tactic of trying to imply that I do not understand your comments -this is your scapegoat. You are fully aware that I understand your comments pretty well.
Maybe if I repeat what I said this time you might understand. The natural environment, including the Ghadira nature reserve, belongs to everyone, including yourself and it is our duty to pass it on to future generations. But alas you can only think about one issue whatever the subject and you seem to derive joy even though you know that more of our garigue might be lost due to development. Well if you do know how to respect others you don't seem to share that same respect to our natural environment.
Just DON'T BE ALIENATED.
I repeat that having any one's opinion, be it of a Maltese expert, a German transport specialist or a biological expert from the Bangkok does not irk me at all (Unlike it did a short while ago to other people). You see, since I want what is best for my country, I let anyone who can contribute put his / her knowledge in the caludron. The we decide having all the studies in hand and the opinions of experts.
I hope this clarifies what I feel about (1) This project (2) having foreign intervention
Alternattiva are involved in this issue since they purport to be the defenders of our environment. If this were really the case then they should find no objection to this project. On the contrary they should be giving it their full backing.
The interests of the Danish Village are no concern of theirs. It has thrived because of its location and transferring the road to its proposed location would only better its beach facilities making it more sought after as a destination.
The nature reserve has had a road running along its side long before it ever became a reserve. Relocating a road to the opposite side would make no difference. Birds are not disturbed whether the road is to their north or south!!
All you are concerned about is your hobby, immaterial to the damage being done to Ghadira Bay! Of course I care about the environment and absolutely do not wish any harm to it. But then, I also know how to respect others, something quite lacking from your side!
Yes this is the second time you commented on this issue and yet again there was no indication of concern for the environment from your end. The natural environment belongs to everyone and we have an obligation to safeguard the little that is left for future generations. But alas, it seems as if for some people, the word "Konservazjonisti" (conservationist) is only used to impress.
Ms. Zarb...do not mix hunting with this issue. For once stop thinking about hunting as you tried to imply in your write up
Maybe now, certain individuals, will understand what lack of tolerance and respect from others feels like!!!!!!!!!!!
@ George Cremona
Not only the people from Mellieha are invited but from all over Gozo and Malta. Transport is an issue that cropped up 20 years ago (for the Greens) while for others its an issue who started yesterday.
You said you care about the environment so what is threatened should also be close to YOUR heart.
"The road as proposed by government will have a negative effect on the nature reserve through bringing both traffic noise and light pollution much closer to the said reserve"
The present road passes on the opposite side of the reserve to the one proposed, so noise and light pollution will remain as is. As for the Danish Village suffering damage to its "tourist investment" the present road is just as close to The Danish Village as the one being proposed and this investment has thrived for years.
Are you not aware that the present road is hindering the passage of silt that actually forms the beach.
Government's suggestion, apart from increasing the size of the present beach for the enjoyment of all, is also ensuring the continuance of the natural process of how the beach was formed.
Hopefully Government will carry on with it's plans.
Its shame and mickey mouse situation were we got the best people in any trade and profession and lost the confidence in this government and left our shores.- SHAME -SHAME - SHAME !!!
How can I convince the powers that be, that sometimes, they have their priorities UPSIDE DOWN.
Most of the roads in Malta/Gozo are in desperate need of resurfacing, even a low cost layer,
NOT road patching please - that is a sheer waste of time, material, manpower and most of all a complete waste of money.
THEN they would be able to afford the luxury of thinking about new roads where they are not required and which spur on nation controversy.
As for the "expert" being brought over from Germany - just try the early morning and evening rush hour routes Naxxar/Sliema, the Qormi road to/from the airport , roads leading to/from Valletta and many many others.
This "expert's" predecessor, also German, was "astonished" about how "wide" our roads were, so he ensured that we swear our heads of (in Maltese) whenever we go through one of the "modern concept" roads. And the Maltese taxpayers, through their STUPID politicians/officials, paid through the nose for something they certainly did not need: STRESS !
By the way, hope you're enjoying all the uncertainty, doublespeak and steamrollering. Might give you a small taste of what it's like when something close to your heart is threatened.
@Andrew Gatt
Coming from you, a confirmed hunter and as you like to say "conservationalist", it is strange that you are worried about funds when the environment is concerned, especially on an island as small as ours.
Bring the beach back to its former glory, remove the old road from the beach.