Update 2: Man stabbed in Attard

Nature may be messy but invasive medical practices tend to be much worse.

Compassion and Empathy concepts – whether derived from civil or religious teachings - should not be abused. As far as I am concerned, we are all duty bound to avoid mistakes, act responsibly and think deeply about the consequences of whatever we feel like doing. My idea of common sense is clearly not yours.
Yes, apart from basic health, good parenthood takes dedication and commitment. And that is precisely why parenthood is not for everyone. As we say in Maltese “Hadd ma jista jghati minn dak li m’ghandux”.

Marianna, even if some totalitarian dictatorship (and this could well be Malta by the looks of it) were to embrace your line of thinking, who would take it upon themselves to label people, the ones who can sire children and the ones who must not? Have you never heard how dangerous labelling is because nobody, but NOBODY, should have the sick arrogance to even consider the role and sleep easy at night. I thought you were a 'near-perfect mother. I think I was being overly generous. I would have thought that with your brood of one (or several) you would be too busy to find time to spout heavy inanities. Good motherhood takes dedication and commitment you know. Good-bye Marianna. This discussion is now closed. Joe.

Marianna, it is a slippery slope to believe that we should strive to only have healthy babies, To quote my favourite dictum, backed by fifty years' experience, unhindered by Maltese style narrow-mindedness and bigotry, 'nature is messy but it is all we have'. Of course what you believe is your business entirely but if I were you, I would seriously look more closely at your stance on the matter. You will be an even better person than you are now and be in a better position to support the unfortunate bearers of less-than-perfect kids, whatever their conception method. It is called Christian-style compassion but not necessarily within that religion. Just common sense really. Bring all the little ones and let us take care of all of them but especially the ones that are deemed less than perfect - 'nature is messy' don't forget. We must not mess too much with what it throws up if we are not to slide down the slippery slope. Good luck with your endeavours. Joe.

……….However, I believe that when all these safe methods fail childless couples should first consider fostering or adopting rather than automatically going for in-vitro fertilization and other invasive methods. The problem with the latter methods is that they seriously hinder the natural selection process during conception and pregnancy and so increase the chance of a child so conceived being born with extremely serious “special needs”.

Now there are some people who believe that having a child with extremely serious and long term disabilities and illnesses is still preferable to having no children at all, but I do not.

Whenever a family member or friend goes through a spontaneous miscarriage or loses a seriously ill child, teenager or adult many of us Maltese – including me - usually try to console them and help in the grieving process by, among other things, saying “ahjar hekk milli ar” which loosely translates into “it could be much worse, better like this than prolonging the agony further for the departed individual and those around him/her”. But such reasoning is totally incompatible with the interests of those who market highly profitable methods of prolonging or "creating" any type of life at all costs.

However much I may try I am nowhere near being “a near-perfect mother” or individual than anyone else. But that does not mean that continually trying to improve myself is a waste of time.

I see nothing wrong with people who believe (correctly or not) that they may have a fertility problem to seek help. Pregnancy or its absence is NOT a thorny issue for me. But the modern belief that ALL people are entitled and/or expected to sire children at ALL costs DESPITE whatever the consequences (for the child himself/herself as well as society in general) may be IS a serious issue as far as I am concerned.
People may improve their fertility by healthy, non invasive means such as a change of lifestyle, a change in diet, use of certain food supplements, understanding their own biological rhythms better, avoiding pollution and known or suspected teratogens, reducing stress, treating certain pre-existing but seemingly harmless infections etc. – the list is practically endless. There are even situations where a couple are naturally biologically incompatible and cannot sire children together although they can with other partners – heartbreaking but true…….

Marianna, if you give vague, contradictory info. (you it was who grouped the 'infertile people' with the other misfits, not me - please do not take me to task. You are now backing off conceding that not all of the mentally afflicted can be put in one basket. However, since pregnancy or its absence is a thorny issue for you, I was quite concerned if you stated at some stage that, illegitimate children could also be classed with criminals. After all, if lead, a negative influence, can, according to yourself, produce the seriously flawed (less than perfect, whatever), the same mindset would see pregnancy out of wedlock as negative and therefore, any offshoot of such liaisons between drug-addled individuals, prostitutes, alcoholics and other sundry undesirables (and infertile people, I almost forget these very unfortunate, terrible individuals who have the temerity to seek infertility treatment). Thank goodness you rejected IVF treatment and ovulated naturally. Congratulations! I hope all went well and that you are be a near-perfect mother. Nice talking to you.

It is one thing being “less than perfect” (like the majority of people after all) and quite another having very serious genetically transmitted conditions Mr. Xuereb.
Utopia on earth may not be possible, but that does not mean that each and every one of us is not morally obliged to live and act as responsibly as we possibly can. As far as I am concerned, for the creation of a truly healthy society there can be few other issues as important as responsible parenthood and prevention of environmental pollution.

I am certainly not against responsible childless couples adopting children as you seem to imply. What I am against is invasive assisted reproduction and not just because of my personal experience and observation of others. (A so-called fertility specialist in my country declared that I was not ovulating and prescribed a regiment of tablets and injections. Thank God I rejected this “treatment” and followed my “nature knows best” credo because I found I was in fact pregnant by purely natural means just three weeks after this “specialist’s diagnosis”)

Marianna Galea Xuereb, you can dress your ramblings all you like and with all the red herrings in the sea of Hormuz. The bottom line is it is disgusting to speak of the criminally-inclined and the mentally handicapped in one and the same breath simply because you seem to see a link between the causes of both 'conditions'. In your vehemence you are even enraged that infertile people might have the temerity to form a family, presumably by adopting children. According to your dictum, anybody who is less than perfect
should not consider siring children and should be discouraged and, if you had any say, forbidden from ding so. Utopic ideals are all very well but recent history has shown the catastrophic agendas behind such ideals. I am sure you know what I am talking about - you sound like an intelligent enough woman.

Half a century of work experience in related fields have clearly shown Joe Xuereb that perfectly healthy and sane people “often” sire children who turn out to be criminals. Possibly true.
Also one can find several articles and studies suggesting that in certain cases upbringing, role models, peer pressure, trauma etc. may induce a person into crime.
Exposure to lead and other pollutants – particularly during the featal stage - have also been linked to crime, behaviour problems and mental and physical disabilities. So I do not see why it should be considered “offensive to speak of the criminally-minded and the handicapped in one breath”.
This country and many others would be far better off if we stopped our obsession with being “politically correct”, over permissive and modern all the time and once again started calling a spade a spade. And we should be educating our children and teenagers accordingly i.e. as per my first post and about the link between their lifestyle (i.e. diet, drug use, certain medicines, certain cosmetics and hair dyes, environmental pollution etc.) and the health of any future offspring they may sire - despite opposition from people who market harmful products and services.

Leonard Perkins, I think you meant Charles Micallef. Have a good weekend - hurry, it is Friday and it's already 3.35. The pubs aren't open all night you know.

@ Mark Spiteri

Have you ever been to London? Well London is one of the safest cities in the UK. Next time mate do a bit of research.

There is no comparison!!!

Marianna, how exactly would you propose eliminating at conception people with criminal tendencies (who hopefully turn to crime years and years after being born) and handicapped children with special needs. Half a century of work experience in related fields have clearly shown me that perfectly healtny and sane people often sire children who turn out to be criminals. I was ging to say 'and handicapped children' but I will not. I think it is highly offensive to speak of the criminally-minded and the handicapped in one breath. Shame!

Years ago we used to be taught that people who are physically or mentally weak/ handicapped or known to have serious, genetic and hereditary medical conditions should not even get married (convenient birth control methods were not widely available then) let alone have children. It was considered immoral to knowingly beget children that stood a high chance of inheriting a parent’s problematic medical or mental condition. Nowadays all one hears is “Everybody has a right to get married and/or to have children – even criminals, very young teenagers, infertile people, people with all types of “special needs” or people who suffer from serious hereditary medical conditions”. The concept of responsible conception and parenthood seems to have died out, unfortunately.

I believe that this has CONTRIBUTED to both the rise in crime and the amount of people with special needs. Besides, many medicines and treatments that prolong (or supposedly enhance) the lives of people with certain “special needs” also render them to be aggressive, unfortunately.

Modern assisted reproduction also increases the chance of a child being born with “special needs” – many of which turn out to be permanent conditions - despite the “rigorous screening” being claimed by medical specialists.

I agree with s saliba, victor vella that's a pointless observation and to maria Agius, crimes also took place in the 50s 60s etc u should get acquainted with some maltese crime history like delitti f'malta as someone already suggested and as far as i'm concerned crimes take place in Vatican City as well ...

The fact is that crime is a natural thing in a normal society. It is part of nature to feel hatred just as it is in our nature to love someone. The Human Being is a very diverse specy. Some are kind and loving and some are full of hate and respite. You can try to regulate it, but you can never supress it. Hatred is like water. If you try to supress it, it will only merge somewhere else.

The best you can do is to be prepared for it and have the adequate infrastucture to help those who seek help. Education is also vital, and yes, youngsters drinking till the early hours of the morning might affect the immature ones into a habit of violence. The source of the problem in such cases would be the parents. Tackling the shop owners is no use. If teenagers want to get hold of alcohol they will get hold of it one way or another just like they do with drugs.

The key is proper parentage and schooling. Some teachers can already pinpoint with alarming accuracy 12 yr old kids who are destined to be the criminals of our country.

it looks like the british disease is moving to malta.

@ Victor Vella - thallatx il-hass mal-basal!!! What have youngsters,alcohol and Paceville got to do with the murders / attempted murders that have happened recently? The perpetrators were men in their late 40s, probably your age or mine.

Crime has always been here and will always be here, it's the authorities who need to revise the punishments they hand out to the guilty parties.

Why don't you all read Delitti F'Malta and then you will realise that crime has been with us for a long time, What I see as a disastrous thing is all those boys who are only old enough to be at a football nursery or a youth club whiling away the early hours boozing in Paceville,when will the police stop the sale of alchohol to these kids, or are the bar owners more powerfull then the police.You only have to close one pub for the others to be extra careful.

What`s happening to poor Malta we`ve put God aside and these are the results.

s.bugeja: "Crime passionelle" is a French idea that does not exist in Maltese law, and it has nothing to do with a fight over a woman, which is what I imagine you meant.

Which cases are you talking about, anyway? Do you mean the husband who threw his wife over a cliff? The one who stabbed his wife and then poured acid over her? The man who shot his girlfriend because he 'loved' her? Or are you just talking about the several husbands of women who live in shelters because they're unable to live with a violent and abusive spouse?

I doubt you could name a similar number of cases where the woman was the perpetrator.

@Corinne vella
I think J farrugia meant crimes of passion! and there are also jealous and possessive women who have commited crimes of passion. you know 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned' an'all that!

Growing up in Malta in the 50s I can recall only two quite horrendous murders over a number of years (older people still spoke in hushed tones of murders they recalled from their youth - we, the children, listened like they were relating some ghost story or scary film and any house/place that was indicated to us as having been the scene of such a crime we loked at in awe rather as one does the sinister house in the film Psycho). These awful happenings had a different impact then and had a surreal quality that can not be experienced today. But look at the same kind of crime in Malta today - after all the violence we have been exposed to (films, etc.) we hardly bat an eyelid when we hear of yet another murder. Sign of the times?! Maybe. But it is a disheartening sign.

@Mark Spiteri,

I accept that comparing the streets in Malta with the streets of London is perhaps a bit of exageration, but I brought up this comparison simply to emphasise the point that, yes, unfortunataley we are getting very trigger and knife happy, more so than ever before, you should speak to anyone in authority and you will soon find out that there is nothing "silly" in this comparison and such crime is seriously on the increase!

On the other hand we can bury our heads in the sand and pretend that it is not happening!!!

.

Over the years, during regular visits to my country, I was always stunned to note that London's
more disturbing trends were being replicated in Malta. According to a report in The Sun of 25.09.08, a report published by The Economist newspaper's annual World in Figures, Malta is top of the league for youngster's brawling among themselves. Maltese teenagers also topped the table of boozey countries drinking more spirits and wine than any of the others. The figures speak for themselves. What is going on? Drug-taking was only mentioned in passing (relating to British youngsters) but, given the brawling/alcohol consumption culture that passes for enjoyment, no doubt has a marked presence.

How about my view:
The fact is that society does not change. The difference is that media nowadays is reaching a wider audience than ever thanks to different types of media such as internet as opposed to just the newspaper or the l-ahbarijiet tat-tmienja. Before, if you missed out on the latter then you would probably have had to depend on other peoples word of mouth for news which meant that you probably received a very different version from the originial.

Hence, incidents such as the below, whereas before only 50% of the population would get to know about it, nowadays the news would spread over to say, 75%.

This is the same argument as the amount of persons with special needs in Malta. The fact is that in the past such persons were hidden from the public eye to avoid embarrasment. On the contrary nowadays these people are exposed out to the open and integrated into society with dignity. It does not mean persons with special needs have increased in number.

J Farrugia: *Women* are an ingredient of violence? I imagine you meant to say 'jealous and possessive men'.

Whilst not referring to this case in particular at all, since we only have the most meagre information.. I feel that what is really happening is this.

In the face the criminal aspect in society, what seems to be happening in Malta is that the man-in-the-street has lost all faith in our legal system. The victim is made to feel like a criminal. More serious crime is ludicrously penalized. Most law abiding citizens have perhaps become so demoralized that maybe,... they are *just taking the law into their own hands.*

oh come on! don't make a fuss out of a murder.

you guys are soon going to say that there is a mafia cell in malta.

pffff

Such crimes are a confirmation, if one was needed, of the fact that we are loosing all moral values. We must keep in mind that moral values are based on natural laws, and by degrading such laws so easily we are breaking our country's backbone. It is the responsibility of one and all, including the Church, Politicians; NGO's (especially those dealing with our youngsters)' and above all Educators to do their utmost to inculcate in the heads of our children/youths the need to adhere to moral values if we want to save our future society.

calm down people. this is nothing new. we have been here before. and tomorrow there will be more. There is nothing out of the ordinary. jealousy, hate, money, women, inheritance, these are all ingredients for violence.

@ Charles Micallef
I think the answer is a big YES. Just taking a simple walk around you see it, not to mention the news reports. Life as we know (knew) it is changing rapidly here in Malta. The sense of community and peaceful feeling of being safe are gone and now we are caught in a downward spiral which I'm afraid normal people like you and me can see but can't stop.

@Charles Micallef / Peter Grech.

Mentioning the streets of London over a stabbing is a bit "silly".
This happens all over the world,but when it happens in Malta we consider it as "headlines",and it happens less because we have a small country with less population so obviosly with less % of crime.
So Mr Grech nothing is happening to the Maltese,and not EVERYONE is hot tempered.

Are we turning the streets in Malta into the streets of London?

oh my god, what is happening to the maltese? nowadays everone is hot tempered and are finding violence as an answer. this issue must be tackeled, it is over pressue that give such results.