Bird strike, cabin crew, delay Air Malta flight by 16 hours

Shirley Sammut

Oct 17th 2008, 09:43

@Clint Taliana - both Cabin Crew & Cockpit Crew have the same FTLs - the only difference is that the pilots report for duty half an hour later than the cabin crew. However the decision to delay a flight because of FTLs is taken by BOTH pilots & cabin crew together to ensure maximum safety

It is a pity therefore that the report mentioned just the cabin crew. People shouldn't just assume that, even though the pilots weren't mentioned, they did not have a say in the decision. Both Air Malta cockpit & cabin crew give priority to safety together, even it may inconvenience the passengers...better late than never is particularly relevant in this case, & in many others, as can be seen in the example given by Mr C Farrugia

Clint E Taliana

Oct 15th 2008, 21:54

@ Shirley Sammut - I cannot rebut your calculations for that day.... BUT my question is, do Cabin crew members have a different FTL than the flight crew?

I presume that the flight crew for that day were on the same duty reporting times (+/- 30 mins) as for the cabin crew. I just need someone to clarify this as its a curious point for someone like me working in aviation.

C. Farrugia

Oct 15th 2008, 21:53

Someone commented: ahjar uff inkella ahh... and I cannot differ.

In March 1977, 583 people lost their lives on the island of Tenerife when two planes collided on the runway. Amongst all possible reasons for this horrible incident, was also a speculation that one of the Captains was in a hurry to take off, *due to Dutch regulations on exceeding crew duty hours*.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_disaster

M Micallef

Oct 15th 2008, 21:36

As usual Maltese people try and depict the bad issues of Air Malta, even without knowing the whole story. What must be pointed out and commented was omitted. The fact that the Captain, together with his crew and all the Air Malta team at that early hour took the decision to have the aircraft checked after the bird strike. People should think that the easiest decision is not always the safest. Make no mistake that other airlines would have approached the matter differently. Air Malta takes no low cost decisions for safety, in this case it erred on the safe side but it was very expensive, people should be thankful although it was hard for the passengers I am sure
And before anyone asks, yes, I am a proud Air Malta employee. We are a tiny airline which has been a quiet servant for over 30 years, and we used to and still subsidise the country. Malta is subsidising other foreign carriers who otherwise wouldn't dare operate here.
Air Malta will continue plodding on, mostly alone.

Christopher Grainger

Oct 15th 2008, 19:03

Well said Ms. Galea.

Air Malta is a fine airline, and although the transition from State owned to self sufficient has been far from painless, it remains a credit to Malta.
There appears to be some dispute as to whether the crew were subject to the flight time limitations as outlined in the Ops part A / JAR ops document, or a change to those regulations which was under discussion at the time.

Some clarification would be helpful.

Flight time limitations are designed in principal to prevent fatigue, and the degradation of safety standards that occur when people become fatigued.

If any of you as passengers feel slightly the worse for wear after one flight, consider the effects of two or three flights per day, six days back to back with a nice mix of late and early starts.

Did someone complain they found cabin crew sitting down when they were first on board ?!!!

Sir ... get a life.

KM has an excellent safety record, long may it remain so, but what nobody should ever forget is that if something goes badly wrong, the cabin crew are there to save your life.

Sarah Galea

Oct 15th 2008, 16:00

Dear Mr.BArtoli being a cabin crew with an other airline I can say that cabin crew are humans aswell and I think they have all the right to sit down, as you said you were the first 1 to board the aircraft could it be that the ground staff did they not do their duty and informed the crew that passengers are coming, it happens to us aswell that we find passengers immediately at our fa
Why all this critising to Air Malta crew this I can't understand, do you know that there are laws which tells that after cabin crew exceeds the flight time limitations they can't continue their duty. What I can say is that I am sure that Airmalta gave a hotel to their passengers some time ago a Ryanair flight was delayed by 16 hrs and guess what passengers had to sit in the airport buying the refreshments, so please think before you write and don't try to damage our national airline after all it is the best airline that operates to Malta and it competed well with Ryanait that promised much more tourist than it actually did. Thanks Sarah

Peter Bartoli

Oct 15th 2008, 15:40

Last time I flew Air Malta I was the first to board the plane. As I entered, I noticed that two of the Cabin Crew were sitting in first row, one was sitting legs crossed reading the paper.

Although I do believe that Air Malta provide a good service, I cannot help but notice that there are a few that bring down the image.

Would it have been too hard to ensure that they are standing at the aircrafts door waiting to greet the customers?

J. Zammit

Oct 15th 2008, 14:47

To all the people who are criticing the cabin crew. Please note cabin crew have odd hours and to those who does not know working in that environment is more tiring there is lack of oxygen. To Mr.Vella and Mr. Briffa what do you work shall we fine you a month's pay for not doing your duty, after all cabin crew were on duty and not on terra ferma you know that crew have to do security checks, to Mr.R.Caruana well I guess you're wrong Airmalta contributed to the Maltese not a burden on tax payer.
To C.Cassar well are you pointing your fingers that cabin crew were stealing, it seems you were part of it and you should have reported them, by the way I think you forgot that economy class had free drinks aswell, and also I think you were an unprofessional steward as it seems you forgot what it is the real duty of cabin crew. For all the people who critics please know that cabin crew work really hard and do their utmost. Keep it up guys as a frequent flyer I congratulate you as being professionals.

Adrian Gouder

Oct 15th 2008, 10:37

With regards to health and safety, if anything goes wrong and the air staff is in breach of EU regularions, is the company insured in such cases?

Kenneth Barry

Oct 15th 2008, 10:35

Crew Flight Time Limitations are imposed for safety reasons. These are calculated on duty hours and time(s) of day and/or night. Whether crew are on "terra ferma" or not, they are still on duty, and the duty hours form part of the equation, and a decision is then made whether the flight can depart, only if crew will still be within the stipulated duty hours when arriving at destination. These limitations are followed worldwide. In a nutshell, safety is the number one priority and that is why FTL have to be strictly followed.

Carlo Ciscaldi

Oct 15th 2008, 10:25

Well well well, an ex-crew pointing fingers to his former colleagues. Not only, accusing them of ripping off the airline!!. . .you should be ashamed to write such comments. Do you really believe that the airline is in the current financial position because if its crew?. . hallina!!

Like in everything there's the good and the bad, but as an ex crew myself for a number of years, I can vouch that the majority of air malta's CCs love their job, and do it with such hospitality, that when one travels with another airline the difference in service is immediately noted. Also, in stark contrast to C.Cassar comments I think they are the front-liners of company and the ones who kept its good reputation even through hard times!

The issue here is, once we are in the EU, shall the employees adhere to them?, or they shall be used only fejn jaqblina?

Shirley Sammut

Oct 15th 2008, 03:34

Flight Duty Periods are regulated by EU & vary according to day or night flights. Cabin crew report for duty 1 & 1/2 hours before departure from Malta. Then there is the flight to & from the destination as well as the (approx 1 hr) turnaround in between, & finally another 45min after landing in Malta. The combined flight to Istanbul & Sofia began duty at 23.25 on Sunday evening so when they arrived in Sofia, the crew had been up all night, not flying for just 1 hour. Incidentally when on terra ferma, they are still on duty and there are still odd jobs to be done, even when passengers are not on board

If anyone thinks that cabin crew delay flights just for the fun of it, then YOU are living in a pantomina. Who do you think will save the day in case of an emergency???

Stephanie Pearson

Oct 14th 2008, 20:23

@ C Cassar

Dear Mr/Ms Cassar (coz C Cassar is very vague) if you weren't honoured to work with Airmalta you shouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. Shame on you if you didn't do anything about your alleged insinuations on your colleagues when you were in the job but just splash it out now to sound sensational with this irrelevant info.

Noel Galea

Oct 14th 2008, 17:17

@

Kindly note that Sofia is 1hour ahead of us. (+3 GMT) That makes it a 2 hour flight.

Stefan Grech

Oct 14th 2008, 16:24

Excusing myself for the link I provided hereunder which doesn't seem to work; the correct link to the relevant legislation is :

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Result.do?T1=V2&T2=2008&T3=8&RechType=RECH_naturel&Submit=Search

It is a 200-page odd document and the section on flying time limitations is to be found on p. 191 of the pdf file. Anyone bothering to have a look, will maybe appreciate what a complicated subject this is....before joining the usual bandwagon of 'Air Malta and/or cabin crew bashing' - which unfortunately has always been a favorite pastime of many readers! One cannot comment like an expert on a simple press release without having all details at hand. From the position I occupy today, I have nothing but respect and admiration both for Air Malta and its cabin crew - who both manage to continue doing so much with so little. May good sense prevail...as it surely will.
Stefan
Brussels

den busuttil

Oct 14th 2008, 14:35

@ c cassar
Seems like sour grapes to me!
and you must have got your timings wrong .A 1 hour flight won't even take you to Rome.

R.Caruana

Oct 14th 2008, 14:28

Does anyone commenting on this article, know about the new EU ops that came into effect on the 16 th July 2008? Cabin crew working hours are protected by EU law and they have to abide by these laws.

One particular comment from an ex cabin crew, said that the flight only took an hour to reach Sofia. I suggest taking a look at the Airmalta flight schedule before he/she tries to mislead other readers. As far as I remember the two hour flight leaves from Malta to Istanbul , one hour stop in Istanbul airport, and another one hour flight to Sofia, all in the odd hours of the night.

Could it be that cabin crew are covered by a different collective agreement than from that of the pilots?

J Brincat

Oct 14th 2008, 13:34

How quick we are to judge!! Do any of you u know that both the cabin crew and pilots signed an MOU to help save the company (whose financial situation is what it is because of wrong decisions, NOT taken by the workers!) and lost financially and also had to give up certain working conditions? And do you know that the cabin crew's wage has been 'frozen' for years now??? What the crew did was abide by the EU law. or maybe, being maltese we can break that too?? Cabin crew are NOT waiters/waitresses! They are safety officers, and those who travel a lot know that it is not an easy job. So pls, let's not just pass comments for the fun of it.

edward vella

Oct 14th 2008, 13:03

Can somebody explain why cockpit and cabin crew should have different flight time limitations, with the cabin crews' being more restrictive than the cockpit crew?

Charles Sammut

Oct 14th 2008, 12:49

The way things are going in the EU, what with workers' rights, health and safety regulations and all the other rules, laws, conventions and agreements sprouting like fungi we will soon end up having to stay home, secured in bed with a 6 point harness in flameproof overalls and a hard hat on. For our safety.

There are rules and then there is common sense. We have just seen the demise of the Malta Drydocks, mostly due to inflexible work conditions. What I call the "That is not my job" syndrome.

Christopher Cunningham

Oct 14th 2008, 12:40

Stephan,

In essence what you are telling people is to keep their uninformed opinions to themselves. To be honest that is quite rude. This is an open forum and all opinions are welcome. Some may not be valid, but that is par for the course.

I am curious, and you may be able to answer this question, which legislation do KM Cabin Crew choose to follow? EU or some other?

Judging from your comments I am assuming that you suppose it is EU.

Obviously if the airline and the cabin crew have different opinions as to their flying time limitation they must both be looking at different legislation. Or.....the legislation you were directly involved in is open to interpretation. However this should not be the case as I am sure it is vetted by lawyers.

If the facts unfold everyone should be better informed.

C Cassar

Oct 14th 2008, 12:27

@ Stefan Grech

I also worked as cabin crew with Air Malta, although frankly I would not call it an honour. The way they ripped off the airline was a scandal - remember the sale of drinks in economy vs giving them out for free in club class? Well, perhaps you have forgotten, and perhaps you were never involved, however the reality is that Cabin Crew are far from being the dedicated staff members that you make them out to be.

Now let us look at the facts here.... they arrived in Sofia at 8.10 am after an hour flight - so they had only been airborne an hour. Then they hit a delay .... examination of the plane due to a bird strike. Fine. Now with all due respect the press release was issued Monday afternoon, say 6 hours after they landed in Sofia, where as we all know, they just sat and chatted and drank cofffee. Then they refused to work on a ONE HOUR flight back home.

Get real Stefan!

Joseph Galea

Oct 14th 2008, 12:23

I am one of the three founders of the Union of Cabin Crew - UCC and I am shocked to read that the airline has the arrogance to write that the Cabin Crew are not flexible. I do not work with the airline anymore but in my 15 years on this job my middle name was 'elastic'.
Good deeds are easily forgotten and one must recall that the Cabin Crew, along with the flight deck crew were the first to give back some of the hard fought and hard earned conditions to 'save' the airline.
My sympathies go with the clients but if the action was within the limitations then it was a decision well taken. I am a regular traveller now and these situations occur often enough. I have never read such news in the media, even after 24 hour+ delays and by the 'best' of airlines in the air or not. The national airline seems to grasp at any rope that is swinging by it to justify deficiencies. Wash your dirty linen at home, I say.
Air Malta and its crews still give the best of service when compared to their competitiors.

Charles Galea

Oct 14th 2008, 12:11

Only Mr Stefan Grech's comment is worth considering , because all the others would be critisizing the airline if the article heading read --- Airmalta Operates Flight with Crew who exceeded Safety Flight Time Limitations .
The delay is a very annoying circumstance but the article is misleading and does only put light on one side of the picture .
Can anyone of these bloggers explain to the readers , what would happen if an accident occurred while the crew were operating outside their safe hours of flying hours .Would the insurance cover the airline from the multimillion Euro cliam put forward by the relatives of the dead passengers ??
Enough said :-P

Stefan Grech

Oct 14th 2008, 10:54

I have had the honour to form part of Air Malta cabin crew between 1990-2000, therefore I can assume to have an idea what the job entails! Since then I moved on and am now a policy officer in the EU Commission working on aviation safety legislation. I was directly involved in the adoption of EU law concerning flying time limitations; and therefore I may humbly assume to know a thing or 2 about the subject! Whilst it is not my competence to say here whether KM cabin crew are right or wrong on this complicated issue, may I appeal to all those who have nothing better to do than shoot the first denigrating comments that pop into their heads, to simply refrain from commenting on matters about which they are obviously totally ignorant. Alternatively, they may consult the relevant legislation I referred to above (at http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2008:010:0001:0206:EN:PDF) maybe they could come out with the right interpretation and arbitrate between KM and its crews!!!

John Camilleri

Oct 14th 2008, 10:31

I don't know, but if the pilots were ok to fly, why was the cabni crew grumbling?

Robert Brann

Oct 14th 2008, 10:23

As an aviation consultant for the past 20 years I can assure the public that Flight Time Limitations are established but with flexibility to extend by a percentage in the event of a disrupted flight. Cockpit Crew hours are more strictly regulated than Cabin Crew. This smacks of union petulance. In other words Work to Rule action.

James Genovese

Oct 14th 2008, 07:08

Ahjar UFF milli AHH

Clint E Taliana

Oct 13th 2008, 23:01

I don't know but usually the cabin crew duty times are the same as those of the Flight Crew members. Isn't this the case with KM?

Alfred Cassar

Oct 13th 2008, 22:01

When unions act irresponsibly, as might be the case, they are a burden to society and a nuisance to the customers. Shame on them.

R Caruana

Oct 13th 2008, 21:44

If the cabin crew was indifferent to causing extra inconvience to 123 clients, I am sure that Air Malta and it s customers could do without them!

Such pantomini are unacceptable, especially in an airline supported by tax payer monies.

l Galea

Oct 13th 2008, 21:03

So if the crew had exceeded their air time according to international regulations, did AirMalta expect them to break international regulations in order not to cancel the flight?

International regulations are there to provide for the safety of the crew and passengers and must be strictly adhered to even if it means inconvenience for the passengers and AirMalta.

Joseph E Briffa

Oct 13th 2008, 20:40

If the question is still before arbitration and it had been agreed that things remain as they are until the tribunal makes its decision, then I feel that the cabin crew acted irresponsibly. They acted very selfishly and were very insensitive to the feelings of the passengers, which should come first. Disciplinary action should be taken by Air Malta and a fine equivalent to at least a month's salary should be imposed. They should also be told that if there is a recurrence their employment would be terminated. No airline can allow such outrageous behaviour to go unpunished.

James A. Tyrrell

Oct 13th 2008, 20:23

Flight time regulations are in place for health and safety reasons. Is Air Malta saying that health and safety regulations are only important when they don't interfere with flights?

Victor Vella

Oct 13th 2008, 20:08

OK so the cabin crew were supposed to rest after a certain number of hours, granted. For passenger safety? Had they been flying all the time I would appreciate it and yes they would need the rest but they were on terra firma doing nothing but talk and linger, and these are the same people who want the airline to succeed in these times of trouble in the world?if they want rest give it to them in the form of a month suspension from work with no pay.