PN says Italy-Libya treaty published in newspaper

V Fenech

Oct 11th 2008, 10:35

@ Wistin

Manduca's work is based on historic and very solemn declarations. It is neither given the look to suit the blue herd!

More than that I do not need to read such books to know what type of people were those Italian names you mentioned. It is much more useless to mention the foreign newspapers issue and the foreign diplomacy act as those were initiatives endorsed for the necessities of that time. Mintoff stood in power for 15 years and your chosen half truth interpretations are not the prime characteristics of labour's leadership.

It sounds funny how certain contributors like this Wistin refuse to discuss all the benefit, investment and social justice which labour introduced in Malta whenever it was in Government!

Joe Vella

Oct 10th 2008, 22:13

@ Chris Borg

Having lived abroad and been involved in the political process abroad my self, I can for a fact state that at times election brochures are centrally produce to save on cost. To reduce cost it is a normal process that the central party will produce the the central theme of the campaign brochure and asking the local candidate to provide the balance to the content.

In short, don't be surprise what one finds on Tony Blair's brochure appeared on every British Labour Candidate.

Joseph Agius

Oct 10th 2008, 19:43

hey mr daley are you aware that joseph muscat is currently pro EU?

Wistin Schembri

Oct 10th 2008, 19:41

@V Fenech

If you want to find something really pathetic, have a look at No Minister (by E Saliba).

Do you mean that Dr Sciberras Trigona did not issue the infamous memo to the diplomatic missions in Malta not to meet PN officials?

Do you mean that the Foreign Interference Act did not exist?

Do you mean that vos Hassel was not declared persona non grata?

Do you mean that Massimo Gorla and Roberto Formigoni were not hassled when they came to Malta?

Do you mean that certain British papers were not allowed in Malta?

etc, etc

Patethic....and how!

A Daley

Oct 10th 2008, 19:40

Why are PN apologists getting so hot under the collar?

Why have all gone into a frenzy?

You do not even have any idea what the EU Treaty says. You do not even have the net amount of what we are receiving from the EU.

Some months ago, most of you were not even aware that after joining the Euro, our Central Bank has no say in the interest rates in Malta.

Now all of a sudden, you have become experts on agreements, not only with the Maltese Government, but also between other countries.

Alfred Farrugia

Oct 10th 2008, 18:55

If and when the latest international treaty between Italy and Libya enters into force, if not earlier, a copy has to be deposited at the UN in order to be registered and eventually published, in accordance with Article 102 of the UN Charter. Secret diplomacy is not acceptable any more. Unfortunately, the current problems on illegal migration between Italy and Libya do not augur well for the ratification and implementation of this treaty.

Assuming that the link provided by Joseph Agius is the full treaty, the new Labour International Secretary may wish to clarify if they were shown any additional details or protocols. I hope that the Libyans were not referring to the agreement signed with Italy in December 2007. Is it not time for foreign affairs in Malta to be treated in a bipartisan manner?

The following make interesting reading:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/29/europe/EU-GEN-Italy-Libya-Immigration.php

http://www.france24.com/en/20080830-berlusconi-colonial-rule-compensation-gaddafi-italy-libya&navi=MONDE

http://libyamonitor.blogspot.com/2008/09/libya-italy-treaty-unravels-less-than.html

http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2008-10-07_107278156.html

http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/news_collection/awnplus_altrenotizie/visualizza_new.html_787426409.html

http://www.handsoffcain.info/news/index.php?iddocumento=10317440

http://untreaty.un.org/English/TreatyHandbook/chapter5.htm

J Farrugia

Oct 10th 2008, 18:17

What is there to be seen when such an agreement HAS BEEN PUBLISHED and there is proof of this! Why this fuss about the Muscat tour of Libya under Mintoff's wings! He is just the Leader of the Opposition nothing more nothing less. He can con nothing with the Libyans. The only thing he should have told them was to rid us of the plague which he is sending us: Drugs and illegal immigrants. Any agreements will be signed by Government and not by any opposition member. So why all this fuss. He has seen what others have seen before him. Trying to compare President Fenech Adami's visit with this new Leader is just jealousy nothing else. President Fenech Adami is the president of Malta, Joseph Muscat is the leader of a party. Governments deal with governments not with arrogant pups. Capito la lezione?

V Fenech

Oct 10th 2008, 18:13

Oooooh how pathetic Mr.Wistin.

People should read the 'Flavour of the Mintoff era' by Manduca and will know exactly how boring and untrue is this Nationalists' Trigona song. Apparently they did find nothing to pick on.

Wistin Schembri

Oct 10th 2008, 17:51

It must be an MLP DNA issue or the presence of Alex Sciberras Trigona.

MLP are fond of secret agreements... remember the secret agreement with North Korea?

V Fenech

Oct 10th 2008, 17:44

Joseph ra bicca, Eddie ma ra xejn!!!

That's what you're missing my fellow blue friends. Such an article gives a little opportunity to the herd of the blue cows willing to try and erase the failure of their party!

Sandro Galea

Oct 10th 2008, 17:37

There are two important points here:

1. MLP statement of the 9/10/2008 (see www.mlp.org.mt) said that: “Minn naha l-ohra tul iz-zjara kien hemm ukoll diskussjonijiet dwar l-immigrazzjoni illegali fejn id-delegazzjoni Laburista anki inghatat access ghall-parti tal-ftehim bejn l-Italja u l-Libja li tikkoncerna dan il-qasam.” Either the MLP did not know that the agreement was in the public domain or the MLP tried to mislead us.

2. More seriously is the fact that on issues were national unity should be a priority, and our foreign affairs on the issue of illegal migration is definitely one of them, the new political season of Dr. Joseph Muscat is trying to divide the Maltese people. Even the old political season of his predecessor knew better.

s.bugeja

Oct 10th 2008, 17:23

@l Galea
Not at all. but I suspect that if gaddafi really showed Dr.Muscat something that was not public domain he is playing a game of divide and rule here. He wants to give the impression that he is more willing to deal with Dr. Muscat than he is with the prime minister. And we would be fools to fall for it. if gaddafi has something to say to the maltese he should do it through their rightful government. I'm not saying that he should not talk to the opposition but this thing started on the wrong foot from the outset. Labour gave the impression that it was some secret mission cloaked in secrecy and mystery.

Joseph Agius

Oct 10th 2008, 17:03

The full treaty in English and Arabaic was on the newspaper last month...I think it is even more than Joseph was made to see!!!......Very disappointed at this new style of politics...hope it is only immaturity!

http://www.maltarightnow.com/content/media/trattat_libja_italja_300808.html

l Galea

Oct 10th 2008, 16:51

@s.bugeja
So if Joseph facilitates matters are you saying that the Government should refuse them?

Edwin Formosa

Oct 10th 2008, 16:51

@michael fenech "This MALTA of ours is in such a MESS we should be in a corner crying " Geremija, certainly you are not old enough to have experienced MALTA IN A REAL MESS

s.bugeja

Oct 10th 2008, 16:11

Why ONLY part of the agreement? Was it to make us jealous? (ara x'iffirmajna ma l-italja!!! tixtiequ wiehed bhalu?!!!!) and anyway, Dr. Muscat is not in a position to sign anything on behalf of malta. if gaddafi wants to sign an agreement with malta he knows only too well that he can only do it through the government. Or is this an echo of thirty years ago when on a visit to malta he threatened us that if malta did not elect a labour government we would not get any cheap oil?

A Mangion

Oct 10th 2008, 16:05

Did Joseph say that this was a secret deal or something. He just said that he discussed it and saw it in the presence of Libay high officials. Thats all. Whay all this fuss

l Galea

Oct 10th 2008, 16:04

@Chris Borg
As Napoleon, I believe, have said, everyone has a price.
Especially politicians.
Your references prove it.

C Calleja

Oct 10th 2008, 16:04

The PN's statement is very irrelevant to the issue of immigration and the problems Malta is facing. Its better if they (gonzi & co) start being pro active and do their best to strike a respectable deal for Malta.

A Daley

Oct 10th 2008, 15:47

Here we go again, mela PN giddibin. Lets see!

The Sun newspaper 24/06/98

The Labour Party as a whole stayed hostile to the EEC, though, even pledging withdrawal in their 1983 manifesto. Young Mr Blair was no exception, in his own words: "We will negotiate a withdrawal from the (E)EC, which has drained our natural resources and destroyed our jobs".

Smajta A Mangion. Just as Dr. Muscat had said, Blair was once against the EU.

Dr. Muscat did not tell porky pies, but PN apologists try to give their interpretation when they quote out of context, as they usually do to make their point.

Blair was and still is against the Euro, and so is Brown, although at one time, Blair tried to convince, that joining the Euro would not make the UK loose any of it's financial independence. Brown was against and it did not happen. So are the Conservatives.

Trying to get political advantage by deception will not go far enough to make us forget that PN have big financial problems on their hands.

Only time will tell what Dr. Muscat has under his sleeve, and only then shall we see who is right and who was wrong!

Chris Borg

Oct 10th 2008, 15:34

@ Joe Vella. So you're saying that Tony Blair, back in '83, had things written on his own personal pamphlets with which he disagreed? That would make of him an outright liar, wouldn't it? The point is that a number of Parties in Europe once opposed their country's accession and now have formed a pro-EU stance, such as British Labour and PASOK. Javier Solana used to campaign for Spain to leave NATO...he ended up heading NATO....

@Sborg...it seems more like that there is nothing new from PN...the usual pathetic spin campaigns....

Talking of gaffes, anyone remembers the day when Pope Ratzinger met Presidents, Kings etc etc? Anyone remembers which President was shooting photos with his mobile phones? Here's a clue...his name starts with an E....

Sborg

Oct 10th 2008, 15:00

Here we go again...is there something new from the mlp ??????

well done!!!! well done !!!! Joseph Muscat ftakar min jithak bil poplu malti ikun qed jithak bih innifsu josss.

michael fenech

Oct 10th 2008, 15:00

How can we expect this COUNTRY of ours to go forward when the so called MATURE adults react in this manner ( Dr. Muscat this and Dr. Gonzi that ) with their comments on such a samll matter like this.

This MALTA of ours is in such a MESS we shoould be in a corner crying not making fun of every move the politicians make!!!!!!!!! SHAME

GROW UP

D Attard

Oct 10th 2008, 14:16

Looks like PN supporters were extremely offended by Joseph's visit to Libya and are repeating Nationalist media propoganda.

Joe Vella

Oct 10th 2008, 14:12

@ Chris Borg

You are wrong on the Blair Issue. What Tony Blair published were highlights of the British labour Party's platform. At every turn Tony Blair stated that his views are not the same as those of his party and that He totally is in favour of the EU.

Joe Vella

Oct 10th 2008, 14:02

@ Chetcuti Adriane; V. Marmara and all the gloon and doom preachers

Haven't you read else where in Times that the number of gainfully occupied people keeps going North and the number of unemployed keeps going South month over month. All of this and Smart City is not even on stream yet.

K Caruana

Oct 10th 2008, 13:57

Dear All

Please note that:

On the 7th of October, i.e. last Tuesday, ANSA reported that:

'The agreement Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi signed with Libyan leader Colonel Muammar Gaddafi at the end of August has not yet been published or ratified in Italy. On Tuesday, Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said the full text of the measure would be put to parliament within two weeks, along with a ratification bill.'

Link is enclosed below:

http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2008-10-07_107278156.html

This document has NOT yet been published in full. Indeed, Joseph Muscat was shown parts of an agreement which has NOT been published in full. Only Silvio Berlusconi has already seen the full agreement.

M Attard

Oct 10th 2008, 13:56

Joseph is really leaving an impression in this country and that augurs well for him.

Some time ago our President went to Libya and nearly nobody gave a hoot and nothing seems to have materialised from this visit.

Joseph went to the same country and here we are seeing people researching what the treaty between Italy & Libya said, whether it was printed in full or in part and if Joseph saw the published part or another one. All these 'researchers' would do a better job if they see what the Italians managed to obtained and our Government did not .... this is what should interest Mr John Citizen!!!

Joe Borg

Oct 10th 2008, 13:29

this link should take you to a translated version of the url Mr. S.Micallef posted...

is this the full treaty??

www.jananews.ly%2FPage.aspx%3FPageId%3D24874%26PI%3D2&sl=ar&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8" target="_blank">http://translate.google.com.mt/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jananews.ly%2FPage.aspx%3FPageId%3D24874%26PI%3D2&sl=ar&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

G.Camilleri

Oct 10th 2008, 12:43

@S.Micallef

Please give us the link to the English version. Italian will do as well.

Even if extracts of such treaty were published online, do you know which articles of the treaty were handed to Joseph? Might not exactly be the ones you're linking us to..

l Galea

Oct 10th 2008, 12:38

S Micallef
I can't find the treaty

S Micallef

Oct 10th 2008, 12:09

here is the link....!
http://www.jananews.ly/Page.aspx?PageId=24874&PI=2

V Marmara

Oct 10th 2008, 12:07

Why all this hassle PN supporters? Are you worrying that there is an opposition leader that has the guts to discuss such issues with such and influential country for the interest of Malta?

Is it better to focus on the real problems that the Maltese are facing? Is it better to focus on how the Maltese are going to pay those electricity bills?

Don't worry so much about us!! It's not good after all, we now what we are doing, don't worry!!

Chetchuti Adrian

Oct 10th 2008, 12:06

Wow !! The Nationalist Party knows which part of the treaty that Joseph Muscat was given access too ?? Where any Nationalists representatives in Tripoli ??

What amazes me the most is that part of the electorate still gives importance to these kind of " so called news ". Will this effect the Maltese economy in the short or long term ? What about the electricity new tariffs ?? What about the promised consultancy with all parties concerened ?? what about the proposed loans to the first time buyers ?? and last but not least, what about the 5 light bulbs promised ?? What a Joke !!

Guess some of the later questions will effect more our bottom line at the end of the day !!

I guess some people are fool and stupid to believe everything !!

Chris Borg

Oct 10th 2008, 12:00

@ A Mangion & R Caruana. Tony Blair did publish pamphlets in his early years in politics saying that Britain should leave the Common Market.....don't let NET brainwash you....

Joseph Muscat NEVER said that he had viewed anything secret, it's just the assumption some people arrived at.

P.Schembri

Oct 10th 2008, 11:49

You all make me laugh. In all your haste to lambast Joseph Muscat, you're forgetting something. But what if the Libyan Government showed Joseph Muscat parts of the treaty that weren't made public? Has anybody thought of this? What if the matters discussed were then exemplified in the Italy-Libya treaty signed by Berlusconi? Is that wrong? I think we all know, through experience, that when a treaty is published, parts and points are only published but the nitty-gritty left out of sight. And any way, at least Joseph Muscat had the guts that while in Libya as a guest, discussed the illegal immigrants and energy sources issues, and managed to persuade the Libyan authorities to form committees for further discussion. Did the government do that? Of course not. We all look to the EU for solutions where they lie elsewhere.

C.Sapiano

Oct 10th 2008, 11:49

@Ms.Roberta Lia

Gonzi and his friends have nothing to do with this. Joseph Muscat cannot afford to make such a mess (ok he's young but...) The problem is that if you compare like with like, people would prefer Gonzi and the PN, as they have done for these last years. Remember the election? Even if Labour wins the election which is very far away, which I doubt it will (Jason Micallef?, Tony Abela?, Anglu Farrugia?), it would have been in opposition for long. Now that's a shame !

K Caruana

Oct 10th 2008, 11:48

I have been looking in the Jana website but could not find any reference to the text of the said treaty.

Jana website is enclosed below.

http://www.jananews.ly/

Furthermore, the website of the Italian Embassy in line does not give any detailed information on the agreement. If such an agreement was made available in full it would have also featured in the Italian Embassy's website enclosed below.

http://www.ambtripoli.esteri.it/Ambasciata_Tripoli/Menu/I_rapporti_bilaterali/Cooperazione_politica/Accordi/

Do you really believe that such an agreement has been published IN FULL???

A.Borg

Oct 10th 2008, 11:37

There you go! Sudden airstrike on Dr Muscat! At least he had the guts to visit Libya and discuss issues of national interest with Libyan officials. I dont really care if part of the treaty was published or not by a Libyan news agency. The thing is that none of us (or at least most of us) had access to it.

Enlighten me on the great achievements reached by the present government in terms of Malta-Libya relations in 20yrs.

eric saliba

Oct 10th 2008, 11:35

well done PN. this bit of news will certainly take my mind off the proposed increases in my next electricity bills. phew i feel better already !!

M Zahra

Oct 10th 2008, 11:35

This is really worrying.
To be honest, if Joseph Muscat makes gaffes locally, I dont really mind.

But these international gaffes (Libya, Blair) - this is embarassing our country even from the Opposition!

carmelo briffa

Oct 10th 2008, 11:32

Malta Labour Party again and again show that there is absolutely no Changes in the Party itself. To-day J. Muscat neither you can lie or exaggerate to the Maltese Citizens. We are neither fools nor stupid to believe everything.

Joseph Cauchi

Oct 10th 2008, 11:29

Is this true, that the part of the agreement that the Leader of the Opposition was shown by Libya was in fact published in a Libyan newspaper some time ago?

My goodness, won'tt we ever learn! ! !

Why is proper preparation NOT done by those who surround the Leader of the Opposition, Joseph Muscat, or are they NOT competent enough in their field? (Probably yes!)

Well, perhaps the Leader of the Opposition is at the moment in the phase of on the JOB-TRAINING ! ! !

! ? ! ?

Joe Vella

Oct 10th 2008, 11:17

Dr. Joseph Muscat, the Maltese electorate needs substance and not headlines.

Possibly, Jason Micallef did not know this, hu Ejja, veru!

Robert Lia

Oct 10th 2008, 11:12

How happy I am for all of you! Conratulations!
Mr Muscat has screwed it up again and eveything the labour does is useless.
Just look around you and you can see and now even touch the horrendous state the country is in thanks to mistakes by your beloved PN government. I am sure that Dr Muscat knows what he's doing conrary to Dr Gonzi and his friends. Shame on you all.

R. Caruana

Oct 10th 2008, 11:06

That's the second time in as many weeks that Joseph has slipped badly!! After the fiasco re Blair's anti-EU U-turn (which never was!) one would have thought the MLP leader would be very careful about his statements

S Micallef

Oct 10th 2008, 10:57

This is indeed funny! On his first visit to a foreign country, the new leader messed it all up! Coming over to Malta stating that he was given special access to some foreign treaty and then discovering that it was just a supplement to a Libyan newspaper is indeed shameful! Varist was right….the more things change, things will remain the same!

Jean Claude Azzopardi

Oct 10th 2008, 10:54

Muscat has messed it all up! I hope this won’t be noticed by the Libyan newspaper, because they will make fun of all us Maltese

A Mangion

Oct 10th 2008, 10:53

The 2nd times in few days that MLP leader was caught bluffing!!! First that Tony Blair was against EU accession for the UK; which statement Tony Blair himself denied!!! Now that the Libyan government gave access to files; files which have been public for more than a month!!!

Better stop bluffing and start working internally Mr Muscat!! MLP cannot afford another humiliation in 5 years time. Its a huge responsibility.

C.Sapiano

Oct 10th 2008, 10:52

OOOps! Dr.Muscat is already doing some big mistakes. And this in his honeymoon. An opposition doomed to be in opposition.

Joseph Agius

Oct 10th 2008, 10:46

wow I thought they were letting our Joseph peep their secret service files!....actually I had read that treaty almost a month ago.