Immigration problem may be making Maltese less tolerant - Imam

Edward De Piro

Mar 20th 2010, 23:18

There is no such thing as a Maltese Muslim.

Joe Xuereb

Oct 12th 2008, 15:50

J G Portelli - I wanted to respond to your post and, you referring to mine, makes this more apt. You say you are most unlikely to revert to Islam. I say you are half-way there. Only problem would be, would Islam take on people like you? Islam is a strong religion requiring its adherents to be committed not spineless yesmen. If I were you I would stay put with the mild religion that is Catholicism - you deserve each other and will prop each other up no end. I do not want to enter into a discussion as you, and Catholicism (and indeed all religions) are a waste of space.

Marvic Aguis

Oct 12th 2008, 14:01

Jesus enjoys high status in the Quran and among all Muslims as a prophet of God. Not God or incarnation of God. This correspond perfectly with the following verses from the Bible:
Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." [This confirms that Jesus preached to worship One and Only God, not trinity.
John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God and your God. [Jesus has a God according to him; we know that God can’t have a God?]
John 8:28 Jesus said, "I do nothing of myself” [Can a God be this dependant?]
John 14:28 Jesus said, "My Father (GOD) is greater than I am" [So, how can Jesus himself be a God?]
Luke 23:46 Jesus said "Father (GOD), into thy hands I commend my spirit" [God does not have spirit like Jesus did.]
Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows.
John 5:30 - John 5:32 - Luke 5:16 - Matthew 26:39
May God bless you all.

J G Portell

Oct 11th 2008, 21:55

@ Joe Xuereb, Jesus predicted he would be recognised outside his people and hence went off to preach amongst the foreigners. Jesus travel were far.

But then I suppose most Maltese Catholics are of the old school and do not read the bible. Dun George Preca, now a Maltese Saint was attacked by the same Maltese Church authorities when he used the Bible to teach catechism. Many are those in Malta who say they are Christian but know nearly nothing of the bible, less of the koran which has a dedicated chapter to Mary mother of Jesus.

The hatred between the two religions has existed for very long period. Pope John Paul wanted us to meet other faith leaders and He was welcomed by Muslim leaders too.

Regrettably, human being being what we are, we from all faiths distrust each other for many reasons, but mainly its fearing the unknown.

I always respect anyone that can speak the truth and can heal such hatred wounds. The Iman in this interview seems to me as a down to earth and holyman. Why attack him because we fear his religion, when we don't even know our own bible?

Joe Xuereb

Oct 11th 2008, 00:20

Continued from my previous contribution.
I am afraid his self-serving ramblings left me unconvinced and then speechless. How are people expected to make sound decisions when they are fed information that is over-simplistic at best and seriously flawed at worst? And what is this talk about Jesus having been a refugee/immigrant - what!, to give credence and respectability to his argument and to appease his Christian listeners so he can feel free to suggest they are becoming intolerant.

Joe Xuereb

Oct 10th 2008, 20:05

Emigration has indeed always been the legacy of humankind. At first there was no settled way of life. It was nomadic, moving around with one's extended family/tribe in search of food (hunting,and later grains) and water. Life expectancy was negligible. Hostities arose when different groups overlapped and threatened each other's survival. They fought with sticks andstones and later fire. Urbanisation took hold and thinking became more sophisticated. 'Natural leaders in time saw the need for social cohesion and the old and trusted beliefs of old (inspired by the sun and other phenomena) were formalised and this saw the birth of religious movements which gave people a distinct identity. This was inevitable, maybe necessary . There came larger settlements and fortified city states. Wars and creation of frontiers and their defense (patrols, passports, etc.) ensued. The rest is history. It was no longer roaming in search of grains and water but a movement on a bigger scale and organised along strict quotas which benefited people and nations. It continues unabated but some use any excuse to leave their country and move by whatever means. They do not need sticks and stones as sufficient evolution in freer societies helps the genuine underdog.

J G Portelli

Oct 10th 2008, 18:36

I have watched the report and it is concievable to swap the script from a Haj (Iman) to a Monsignor (Christian) - there was no religious issues or provocation, he simply explained that whilst immigrants can make us discontented he explained that human immigration is an old process and that Moses, Mohammed and our Lord Jesus were also immigrants.

Now what is wrong with saying this. I am not Muslim, neither would I ever be likely to ever consider it , but it does not make it right to attack a report because of the interviewee;s religious belief.

Many of what has been posted is correct, but out of context and this is not the place to remind Muslim countries about their intolerance towards Christians.

This is about how we react with regards Immigrations - answers is like others, with disappointment and worried about our small territorial border being invaded on humane grounds. It hurts.

R. Azzopardi

Oct 10th 2008, 09:42

@K. Pullicino

Please note that nobody here is mentioning skin colour. About ten years ago I heard an Afro-American woman say that "nigger is not a colour. It is an attitude". Truer words were never spoken. I don't care about skin colour. An illegal immigrant may be as white as a sheet. He/she is STILL an illegal immigrant.

Marvic Aguis

Oct 9th 2008, 16:00

Any body interested to read about the divine message of Islam, please read Quran and modern science-compatible or incompatible? By Dr. Zakir Naik
http://www.ahmed-deedat.net/modules.php?name=myBooks2&op=listt&cat=7

May God bless you all

joe xuereb

Oct 9th 2008, 10:02

Land is not ours, we are given it by the Divine to take care of. This is along the same line as as 'God gives us love, something to love He LENDS us' (I remember reading this as a boy in one of my mother's magazines). Truly fine words with deep humanitarian meaning no doubt. The problem is, unless the sentiment is shared by all wherever they are, one is always going to get some (like illegal immigrants with a hidden agenda that is so transparent it's laughable) who will come and continue to come and say: "Move over, I'll take care f your land". The followers of extreme interpretations of any religion should and must limit themselves to occupying places where these beliefs can be practised with impunity. To migrate, illegally to boot, to a country, often with a Christian tradition, and live off that country's taxpayers and expect it to change ITS institutions to suit your needs and accuse it of being intolerant when it drags its feet......just food for thought!

Raymond Sammut

Oct 9th 2008, 08:15

@ Charles Micallef

Saudi Arabia has an immigration problem. The country is in the process of building a security barrier along its Yemeni and Iraqi borders. That is some 600 miles of fencing.

If there were any truth in what the Imam is saying, namely, that land does not belong to anybody because land belongs to God and we all have to share it, then this fencing by Saudi Arabia would not be necessary.

Enough to say that the very Qur'an that the Imam is showing originated in Saudi Arabia. Yet it is Saudi Arabia who is building security around her.

Dr Gonzi has torn down Malta's security, and buys patrol boats to ferry migrants into Malta. The irony is, migrants do not need Gonzi's kindness. They simply outboard themselves all the way to the pier.

And why not? Unlike Saudi Arabia, Malta is not God's land. Malta is Gonzi's land, and the Maltese have to share his land with the "migrants" and with the "refugees" and with whoever else makes it to the pier, else the Maltese will be muzzled by the law and vilified with the racist card.

David Muscat

Oct 8th 2008, 21:01

@Edward Bonnici

Can you or the imam tell me what the penalty is for a non christian entering the Vatican City? Can you also tell me what the penalty is for a non-muslim entering mecca or medina? It's not even a question of building mosques in Saudi Arabia, just entering Mecca.


It's not a question of christian morals. Same applies for other religions there.


Can you provide links that there are more churches in moslem countries than mosques in christian countries.

p. Galea

Oct 8th 2008, 19:53

@ Charles Micallef

The answer to your first two questions is yes of course, arab countries including rich states also have an illegal migration problem.
Last week it was reported that some Sudanese were caught by the Egyptian police entering Egypt illegally.
Some Somalis were also caught trying to go through the Gulf-region (via-Yemen) illegally.

Most probably you find many immigrants head to Europe for easy access to sex and drugs.

Mario Grungo

Oct 8th 2008, 19:45

He who learns from his mistakes is wise, he who learns from others' mistake is very wise. This is what Confucius once said. We need to be tolerant and must show the way. That is a true Christian value. I firmly believe that by keeping the illegal immigrants penned in serves as a deterrent. Italy and Spain also have this problem, which the rest of Europe seem to ignore. What we must not do is to let what happened in other countries where crosses in classroom were deemed to offend muslims, where sharia law takes over from the law of the land. I was horrified hearing the Archbishop of Canterbury almost praising it! I would like to remind the eminent Imam, that we all believe in one God, and that we should strive to serve Him as best as we can, but charity begins at home and it is important for him and everyone else to look at the problem and nip in the bud and not pass the bucket and expect it to stop somewhere where it does not belong.

G.Hoare

Oct 8th 2008, 19:37

I am finding this very confusing. We are letting everybody take part of this tiny island - We have ARABS , CHINESE, AFRICANS , RUSSIANS, and other Europeans. What makes me furious is that we are judged racists while we are allowing all these nations and religions in Malta. They build their churches whether we like it or not - i wonder if they would let a Maltese build a Roman Catholic church in an arab country.

K. Pullicino

Oct 8th 2008, 19:31

"If one day we have a Black Holy Father the whole world would be beautiful. But I think the divine orders aren’t color blind."

Jesus was most likely dark skinned.

deb bugeja

Oct 8th 2008, 18:48

Of course Maltese can loose their tolerance regarding illegal immigrants. How can an influx of people come to our country illegally take over some of our villages, take our jobs, live on us tax payers and we don't loose our tolerance?

Why doesn't the Iman persuade some of his fellow muslims leaders to take them to their country. We have been very tolerant as regard to his beliefs. we have built a mosque whereas some of muslim countries deny christians their churches.

R. Azzopardi

Oct 8th 2008, 17:51

Middle eastern countries don't have an immigration problem because nobody wants to set foot there. They do, however, have a massive population of Asians working as their servants who are exploited left, right and centre. A good number of Asian girls are also used as sex slaves. When the Filipino government tried to put a stop to it, the Saudi government got enraged and stopped all employment of Filipino citizens with immediate effect. The poor Filipinos had no choice but to bow their heads and accept rampant exploitation.

Charles Micallef

Oct 8th 2008, 17:08

Can anyone explain if the rich Arab states have an immigration problem?

It makes one wonders how many illegal immigrants go to Dubai, Saudi Arabia, UAR etc?

And why do they look for a better future in European Countries?

l Galea

Oct 8th 2008, 16:50

p. Galea
Both are to blame.
The Local Council for hiring an ILLEGAL immigrant instead of a Maltese worker.
The ILLEGAL immigrant for accepting lower wages and working conditions thus undercutting the Maltese worker in his own country.

Guze Xerri

Oct 8th 2008, 16:23

@Edward Bonnici,

Your argument of the Vatican being compared to Saudi Arabia does not make good sense.
The city state of the Vatican may be compared to Mecca or Medina although they are not city states, but Saudi Arabia as a whole should be compared with Italy.
Italy has plenty of mosques.
Saudi Arabia allows NO Christian churches period.

John Borg

Oct 8th 2008, 16:14

Maybe the old street sweeper was like so many other street sweepers: does not do his job and can hardly be bothered to show up for work. And maybe the new sweeper was hired because he is hard-working and earns his pay. But of course AN and Viva Malta will not admit "maybe" into their vocabulary since for them everything is black and white.

p. Galea

Oct 8th 2008, 15:45

@ louise vella
Fgura local council employed a Maltese street cleaner (kennies). His work contract came to an end last September but was not renewed. Instead Fgura local council employed an illegal immigrant at lower wages and conditions.

Why should we blame the immigrants for this? You should blame Fgura local council i guess!
NO exploitation of workers

Isn’t this what Mr. Tony Zarb is fighting for?

l Galea

Oct 8th 2008, 15:43

louise vella
How's that for solidarity by the Local Councilors with those who have elected them and with their fellow countrymen?

Jolly good show Fgura Local Council!

SHAME ON YOU

Edward Bonnici

Oct 8th 2008, 15:28

@ Joseph Mallia
Can you please write to Minister GATT to stop the Smart city investment because it’s coming from Muslim country and eventually we may have thousands of Muslims living among us?

@ David Muscat
Church goers are decreasing all over Christian countries. This is the real dilemma of the Vatican. A divine solution does not see to be available for this issue.
But somehow our Christianity morals wake-up when Muslims are discussed!
My understanding is that. For Muslims, Saudi Arabia is equivalent to our Vatican. Christians would fully and freely practice their religion inside a Church in Saudi Arabia’ soil, only when Muslims have a Mosque inside the Vatican’ soil. The same would go as far as a copy of the bible in Saudi Arabia is concerned

not on country- by- country base. Number of Churches inside Muslims world all over the globe, more than Mosques inside Christian’s countries all over the globe. Unless we tend to edit, or make self-history, facts speak for themselves.

If one day we have a Black Holy Father the whole world would be beautiful. But I think the divine orders aren’t color blind.

Charles Camilleri

Oct 8th 2008, 15:25

Before preaching us tolerance the Imam should tell us if Catholics have the same facilities and liberties in his own country as Muslims have here.

malcolm seychell

Oct 8th 2008, 15:24

@Jamie Pace

Do you know what are you saying? Go and ask people from UK, France, if they have their country is better with illegal immigrants.

louise vella

Oct 8th 2008, 15:00

Let me tell the Imam why the Maltese have negative attitudes towards illegal immigrants. I heard the following on one of the radios (RTK) on Saturday 4 October at about 11 a.m. during a radio phone-in on illegal immigrants:

Fgura local council employed a Maltese street cleaner (kennies). His work contract came to an end last September but was not renewed. Instead Fgura local council employed an illegal immigrant at lower wages and conditions.

This should give food for thought to those who say that illegal immigrants do work that Maltese workers do not want to do.

The lower the place of Maltese workers on the social ladder and the lower their wages, the more vulnerable they are to unfair competition from illegal immigrants who undercut both wages and other conditions of work. All institutions – the Government, the GWU and the Catholic Church, as well as the Imam himself – should bear this in mind when they pontificate about illegal immigrants.

Franco Farrugia

Oct 8th 2008, 14:34

I think the Imam should first consider preaching tolerance to his own people, back in his own homeland, before venturing to criticise the Maltese for being intolerant.

David Muscat

Oct 8th 2008, 14:01

The imam should give us an example of tolerance by telling us what happens to a bible if someone attempts to take it to Saudi Arabia. He should also tell us what his fellow believers would do if the same treatment given to a bible in the Saudi was given to a koran in a christian country.

Etienne Micallef

Oct 8th 2008, 13:39

@ R. Cassar

Of course I do not want the destruction of Maltese culture. I am proud of Malta and that I am Maltese. I believe in the promotion of Maltese culture and talent. I do not believe in victimising others is the way that Maltese culture survives. I currently live in Birmingham, and have been for two summers as a volunteer in Pakistan and Albania (that has a third of the population that is Muslim).

Joseph Mallia

Oct 8th 2008, 13:33

I don't agree with Mr. Etienne Micallef for some reasons. First of all nobody in our little country asked these unfortunate people to come to our shores. It is true that many of them land here by mistake because their aim was to reach the shores of the European continent. But once they land in Malta we are stuck with them. The Imam will never try to do anything to stop this influx. The more they come the happier he is because he sees his flock get bigger and bigger and therefore more mosques will mushroom all around us, being a rented flat or a purposely built one. Just look at Italy. Up north people are protesting because the Muslim community wants to build more mosques. Rightly said, enough is enough. We will start to feel the effects maybe in 50 years time. Our forefathers used to emigrate the legal way.

Joanne Micallef

Oct 8th 2008, 13:14

I've said this before, if nothing tangible is done to stop the flow our concern will in time turn to anger and how long does our Goverment think it will take for that anger to turn to rage.

Re the Imam's comments on immigration, basically he repeated what Gaddafi had said a while back, that immigration is inevitable as it is normal for human beings to migrate from one country to another. Very understanding indeed!!

Etienne Micallef

Oct 8th 2008, 13:09

@ R.Cassar

Of course I do not want the destruction of the Maltese culture! I am very proud to be Maltese and I promote Maltese culture here in the UK where I just moved. I have been as a volunteer for two summers in a predominantly Muslim country that is Pakistan and in another that has a high number of Muslims, i.e. Albania. I have always been treated very well. Of course there are disagreements when people of different cultures and faith live together, but it does not mean it is impossible and bad.

Edward Bonnici

Oct 8th 2008, 13:05

@ a.cassar
‘Money will not solve our real problem, that of losing our country to foreigners. Malta is not for sale like some prostitute.’

Here I agree with you, money does not provide a remedy to racism.

‘When is the bible going to be translated into Arabic and allowed into moslem countries without those who read it fearing for their lives?’

Are you aware of the fact that there are Millions of Christians living for decades among Muslims in Arab countries?
In Muslims countries there are Millions of Christians are living with Muslims, and yes, living in harmony despite what the media try to make us swallow. I lived in the middle East and I know what I am talking about.
While you are talking about the translation of the Bible, among the too many different Bibles we have today in Christian world? or which bible we can claim is the uncorrupted word of God?
In my opinion, if you are interested to have any religion you should first answer this question: is the Quran is a divine messaget?

Charles Micallef

Oct 8th 2008, 12:57

@ John Azzopardi,

Of course Malta is not for sale, I was refering to fact that we need immediate financial
assistance, and if these oil rich Arab States follow their religion not just dictate the price of oil, they should contribute towards to their moslem brothers' upkeep.

Although we all hope that this is 'temporary transition in their lives" I cannot see a long term solution irrespective of what we are told.

What is even more worrying is, that if they keep arriving in the same numbers as they did this year, than the situation is becoming very, very serious.

So please all of you wake up to reality of the situation.

The overall costs involved in detecting them, picking them up, housing them, (even if some of the accomodation afforded is less than basic) feed them, security and give them all that they require" is done at no small costs when we are now dealing with 1000's and no longer for just a few hundred!

I am a Christian first and foremost, and giving shelter to others is what I have always been taught, however I also live in the real world.

P Debono

Oct 8th 2008, 12:53

Maybe the Imam won't realise that Malta is the most densely populated European country by some distance, and one of the top 5 most densely populated IN THE WORLD.

Tolerance has absolutely nothing to do with Malta's illegal migration problem.

a.cassar

Oct 8th 2008, 12:37

@ jamie pace
That is the most egotistical comment I've heard in a long time! so you are looking at these people as prospective customers for YOUR supermarket.

Julian Montanaro

Oct 8th 2008, 12:30

@Etienne Micallef: I don't know what you are trying to insinuate when you said "We do not own lands and countries we just take care of them." Now are you saying that I have no right in saying "THIS IS MY COUNTRY". Are you banning the use of the word NATIONALIST ? The nationalist party will have a big problem with that.

May I say this is not migration, this is ILLEGAL immigation. I noted that you ommitted the word illegal in your comment. We as a nation migrated to Canada and Australia in the past years, but just because they needed our work and we were not illegal. People who say we can use (exploit) these people for cheap labour just have no idea what they are talking about.

Robert Dimech

Oct 8th 2008, 12:17

Dear Imam, what makes the Maltese people less tolerant is the IMPOSITION of immigration, specifically illegal and the consequent cultural, financial,security etc implications. As well as the feeble way both the local authorities and our European friends are treating this problem. Malta is not an immigrant country, rather the opposite. While we may need a small, temporary, influx of skilled & professional people, we cannot afford (and not just financially) to integrate whoever happens to be passing by. Yes, Malta IS my country, I will even defend it and die for it if necessary and I want to CHOOSE who I allow to become my permanent bedfellow.

Dominic Zammit

Oct 8th 2008, 12:09

I simply don't agree with any hefty donations from the very wealthy Muslim nations, since it will be a boost for more to come.
The Maltese are very tolerant, but there is a limit.

jamie pace

Oct 8th 2008, 12:08

am yet to find anyone who has contributed significantly with their comments as regards the crisis we face as regards the influx of illegal immigrants into the shores of our island....this is a crisis quite alright,but cant we emulate other larger countries that ve benefitted in the past, economical from thesame influx of immigrant to their shores...countries like the united states,canada,france,uk and holland to mention a few...ve benefitted alot from accepting these immigrants into their society...alot of them are gifted in so many ways,be it sports,man power and interlects....if we all search properly we can reap quite alot from them....me personally I am planning to open up a supermarket either in valleta,hamrun or marsa where i ll be selling stricking african food stuffs imported from libya or egypt...yams,cassava plantain, beans...its a known fact that most of them dont like eating wot we maltese people eat...alot of them staying here either legally or illegally now ve jobs and earn quite some money.....so if they can find their kind of food here no matter how much its been sold for,they will always buy them.......we can all reap meaningful benefits from these people..hence the facts remains, alot of them re here to stay...

I. M. Dingli

Oct 8th 2008, 12:03

I'm sorry Mr. El Sadi, but if tolerance is not shown amongst Muslims themselves (reason for fleeing their respective countries), how can you blame minor intolerance from our part?

a.cassar

Oct 8th 2008, 11:54

Is imam El Sadi on good terms with gaddafi? perhaps he can talk some sense into him!!!

a.cassar

Oct 8th 2008, 11:53

Charles micallef, Money will not solve our real problem, that of losing our country to foreigners. Malta is not for sale like some prostitute.
When is the bible going to be translated into arabic and allowed into moslem countries without those who read it fearing for their lives? how many moslems converted to christianity and what happened to them? can a christian man marry a moslem woman and remain christian?

R. Cassar

Oct 8th 2008, 11:51

@ Etienne Micallef

Comments like yours always leave me flabbergasted. You should look abroad at what other countries are going through after massive immigration (remember the French immigrant riots?) and learn from their experiences. Is this what you want for Malta? Do people like you want Maltese culture and the very fabric of what it stands for to be wiped out? Because that's what will happen if this continues. These are not refugees, they are economic migrants who want to come and stay in Malta and make it theirs.

Also you say "we do not own lands and countries we just take care of them". I invite you to go and migrate to a muslim country. Then let us know how the locals welcome you once you tell them they do not own their country. In fact tell them it's yours as much as it' theirs and we'll see what happens...

Kenneth Cassar

Oct 8th 2008, 11:36

@ Charles Micallef:

"It is not the immigration problem that is making the Maltese less tolerant,
it is the cost and the space that such a small Nation like ours cannot afford!".

You're simply rephrasing what the Imam said. The "immigration problem" is meant to include cost and space restraints.

John Azzopardi

Oct 8th 2008, 11:28

@ Micallef...........Mr. Micalllef, malta is not for sale. Malta is too small for this influx. This kind of uncontrolled influx will have a major impact on Maltese society and all Maltese including our supposed Prime Minister and Opposition Leader know this. In addition, the EU is on the verge on a recession. Now, who wants to see unwanted illegal immigrants i nthe thousands landing on our shores every year. Isn't this a recipe for trouble ahead.

Etienne Micallef

Oct 8th 2008, 11:25

I agree with what the Imam rightly said. Of course migration is creating great stresses on the country and obviouosly things would be easier without migration. But an easier way does not mean the right way. Both migrants and Maltese need to remeber that everyone is passing through a stressful moment but we all need still to remember that we are all human. We do not own lands and countries we just take care of them.

Charles Micallef

Oct 8th 2008, 11:13

It is not the immigration problem that is making the Maltese less tolerant,
it is the cost and the space that such a small Nation like ours cannot afford!

Now if we get some hefty donations from the very wealthy moslem nations,
the Maltese will become very tolerant!