Joseph Muscat in Libya

@ Frans Sammut

Perhaps you should be the one to ask Minister John Dalli. But then, you really don’t think that you need to ask Mr. Dalli do you? You clearly think that you can read his thoughts when you write, “If you ask Minister Dalli he will still tell you …” My, my, how people must envy your insight into other people’s minds.

However, before you ask Mr. Dalli, perhaps you should remember that he, as a government minister, would feel obliged to reply in very diplomatic language lest his words are interpreted as those reflecting the government's position.

There is no way that Mr. Dalli would say anything that would worsen the situation between Malta and Libya. After all, Mr. Dalli would not want to upset Ghaddafi so much that Ghaddafi would send over a few of his gunboats and submarines to Malta to persuade us of his “friendship”.

This is a classic case of a journalist trying to prempt the Labour Party with regards to releasing this information; I am positive that the press office of the Labour Party had a statement ready to be released, but the journalist got wind of it and asked the Labour Party the whereabouts of Joseph Muscat prior to the Partys' statement being released and hence making it seem as if the Party did not want to divulge this information.

The hesitancy in replying to the journalists' question would probably be because the Party wanted the information to go out in an official statement but they realised that the newspaper would carry the story anyway with or without confirmation, hence an affirmative reply was given accordingly.

Infact a statement was released later on that day; so Martinelli there was no camouflage. Also Joseph Muscat was invited so the perception that he might have gone to fix something is the reaction of some bloggers, on hearing that Joseph Muscat is visiting Libya.

Discussions that took place were re: energy sources and illegal immigration - however keep in mind this was a visit by invitation not a visit with a mission.

@ Frans Sammut

You keep forgetting one important thing.

The United States carries a bigger hammer than we do. Maybe Col. Gaddafi learned a painful lesson when the US blew up a few tents, messed up his sandy front yard and calmed him down. Lucky for him he had some 'friend' who tipped him off about the impending raid.

What Mr. Dalli thinks is his prerogative and I do not believe that he is the type to check with you first before making up his mind. You had better offer advice to Joseph because he would probably be more receptive to your ideas than Mr. Dalli.

If you want to verify Mr. Dalli's views, ask him yourself since it appears that you have an inside track on his psyche.

@ G. Curmi

You still haven't got it, my friend. If you ask Minister Dalli he will still tell you that Libya should be regarded (1) as a friendly neighbour; (2) a country with which it is profitable to boost economic ties. (And I, for one, agree wholeheartedly with him). Go on, ask him and if he refutes these notions, come back and tell us. We are all waiting.

@ Frans Sammut

You have now dispelled any suspicions that there may have been about your political inclination and affiliation. According to you, the government can do no good, while Joseph Muscat can do no wrong.

You claim that Minister John Dalli's recent visit to Libya bore no fruit. My, my, you must be privy to some very high-level sources of information within the government. Since you seem to know so much, why do you ask me about what Minister Dalli thinks? Frankly, I don't know what he thinks. I am neither clairvoyant nor do I have ready access to Minister Dalli; and I must have missed the mind reading courses when I went to school. Clearly, you seem to think that you know that Minister Dalli thinks – you either have access to him or you must be clairvoyant. Would you care to enlighten us?

On thing remains unchanged. Libya is not, and has not been, a friend to Malta since the 1960s when Ghaddafi seized power there.

It is so tiresome trying to have a serious discussion with people like you who attempt to inject party politics into everything that takes place.

@ J Martinelli

My reply to G. Curmi suffices. As a bonus explanation read the following: TRIPOLI, Oct 6 (Reuters) - The United States sees great potential for boosting exports to Libya and trimming its $2.9 billion trade deficit with the north African oil producer as the two countries rebuild relations, a U.S trade official said. Israel Hernandez, U.S. Commerce Department Assistant Secretary, told Reuters trade was growing fast and he wanted to help U.S. companies target possibilities in infrastructure, education, health technology, tourism and agriculture. "Libya is one of the fastest growing markets for our exports," he said on a visit to Tripoli late on Sunday. 7 October, 2008: — The United States has opened a trade office in Libya to boost economic ties with the oil-rich state, the official JANA news agency reported on Monday. It said the US assistant secretary for trade ,Israel Hernandez, was at the official opening on Sunday with Libyan government representatives as well as businessmen from both countries. The opening, exactly one month after a landmark visit to Libya by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, aims to ramp up commerce between the two countries.

@ I Galea

Keep hoping. Last election was also a certain victory for you by a precalculated margin of some 15000 votes.

@ Frans Sammut

Help from Libya? You must be dreaming.
No one is against Joseph going to Libya. What we are against is the MLP's feeble attempt to camouflage his visit and the wild expectation that Joseph is there to fix something. Your comment about Minister Dalli not achieving much, can you tell us the source of your information? Maybe Minister Dalli does not count chickens before they hatch.

@ a dalli

You think that a President and Prime Minister go a-begging to a foreign country hoping to get to see the chief honcho? Goes to show you how little you know how things work in diplomatic circles!

Let's all hope that Joseph will come back with an armful of goodies which will benefit all be they blue, green red or whatever.

It will be enough reason to roll the red carpet for him upon his return.

@ G. Curmi


It should be very "clear" to you why I "drag" Minister Dalli into Malta-Libya relations. Everybody and his dog knows that Minister Dalli promotes these relations in the business field, and as far as one can tell, there is absolutely nothing wrong in this. But now, things have taken a new turn. It would seem that Minister Dalli's recent call on the Libyan leader bore no fruit, so there is the obvious need for a new approach towards Libya. Dr Joseph Muscat's effort is therefore to be applauded by all those who have the good of their country at heart. In the past people used to place the good of either the United Kingdom or Italy before the interests of their own country. This should end now that we are living in the 21st century, supposedly a long way off Fascist times. This should be the time when ALL Maltese should be striving for the good of their country ... as the Leader of the Opposition is doing right now.

Here we go again...... A member of the Malta Labour Party..... the Leader Joseph Muscat himself... goes for an Official visit to Libya, and a lot of Biased and Stupid comments against this visit, by all those who see not further than the end of their nose.... What a pity....!!!!

We are now living in the year 2008, and looking forward.. A lot of other politicians from Malta, (from both parties), and other countries, including Rice of the U.S.A. made such official trips in recent times...

Malta, thanks to the M.L.P., always had special ties with Libya, even when things seemed going wrong, politically.. But we never said `die`...!!!!!!!!!!

First of all, we all know that Libya, now, is a potential growing economic country, and is in the process of fastly developing its resources in the fields of tourism and manufacturing industries, besides pumping up crude oil...

Also, we all know how much we are adversely hit by illegal immigration, coming from libyan shores...

CONCLUSION: Yes Joseph... Let`s have more talks with Libya on such subjects as, Tourism, Oil, Immigrants and any other Commercial and Economic Opportunities....

THAT`S WHAT MALTA NEEDS... AN OPEN MINDED YOUNG POLITICIAN LIKE YOU...

It is a pity that a news item which should not have aroused any passion, one way or another, has led to a number of comments that betray unbelievable bias. Some comments echo pre-WWII days when many displayed greater allegiance to Italy or Great Britain than to Malta itself. No genuine Maltese should try to distort history to praise a foreign country at the expense of his own. There is no space to go into detail here. One needs a book.

An invitation by a foreign government to a leader of the opposition is routine. The MLP has only itself to blame for treating it like a state secret, thus raising eyebrows.

However, bilateral relations between countries are conducted through governments and not through political parties in opposition. Let there be no resucitated POPEMs.

I would suggest that any political meeting between between Malta and Libya should have on its agenda these topics.

1) Cooperation to curb illegal migration affecting Malta and Libya
2) Offshore oil exploitation in disputed waters between Malta and Libya
3) Cooperation in investment
4) Settlement of any outstanding payments

The priceof oil is not high on my agenda.

@ Frans Sammut

It is unclear to me why you felt the need to drag Minister John Dalli’s name into this discussion. Your attempt to inject party politics betrays you as having a political axe to grind.

Frankly, whether Minister John Dalli, or anyone else for that matter, shares my "opinion" (as you put it) about Libya is of no consequence. You may not have noticed this, but I did not offer an opinion, I simply quoted historically undeniable facts.

As we all know, we cannot always choose our neighbours. We also know that neighbours do not always act neighbourly or friendly. As it is, while Libya is Malta’s neighbour by circumstance of geography, Libya has over many years demonstrated by its actions that it is no friend of Malta. Not since Muammar Ghaddafi seized power in Libya.

Libya plays an important role in the business world of fuel. Our President Fenech Adami has recognised such fact and visited the Libyan Colonel. Although we still do not know exactly what was arranged between them, we do hope that the President has succeeded in his quest. Joseph Muscat and the Labour party want to give a hand in such case more than welcoming the presidents' vision.

Lets hope that any approach towards improving things with Libya from the MLP by Joseph Muscat would be equally successful as Joseph's experience in the European Parliament.

@ Peyton Brewster.

You may as well add H.E. Dr. E. Fenech Adami and Dr. M. Gonzi on the ist as they have both been to Libya and left no stone unturned to meet the Leader.

@ G Curmi

I asked you a question: do you think Minister John Dalli shares y our opinion regarding Libya? Am still waiting for an answer.

@ Joseph. E. Briffa

Your thesis on international relations may be acceptable on academic merit but, at this stage in Malta's current situation is - no offence meant - pointless. Malta sorely needs all the help she can get. Would anyone in their right senses refuse or reject any help from neighbours who were of effective assistance in the past and could very well be in the future?

(ctd) and Libya promised to stop being a rogue country, the West welcomed her back due, no doubt, to the fact that Libya is one of the world's biggest oil producers. Sanctions by the US against Libya were lifted and France, Italy, Germany, the US started wooing Libya in the hope of gaining billions of euros worth of contracts. Malta is just doing the same; the President visited Ghaddafi some months ago and the question of oil exploration was raised. I believe Ghaddafi had to consider Malta's request to be allowed to prospect for oil in the Medina Bank and promised to give a reply in September. Whether Malta has since received a reply from Ghaddafi or not I am not aware. Joseph Muscat's visit is obviously meant for the same purpose and I don't see anything wrong. Obviously , all the interest in Libya shown by EU states and the US stems from the fact that Libya is very rich in oil and wants to spend the money on development works rather than on arms.

Both the Libyans and the Maltese are aware that there isn't much mutual affection between them. When Malta became independent in 1964, Malta's first embassy was opened in Tripoli and relations between the two countries were extremely good. However following the bad experience of a number of Maltese living in Libya after Ghaddafi's takeover in 1969, relations cooled down. Mintoff, well aware that Libya was rich in oil, was prepared to chuck NATO and the Americans out of Malta just after Ghaddafi closed down the US Wheelus base, and tried to cash in on it. To ingratiate himself further with Ghaddafi, Mintoff promoted Libyan culture in Malta and also made Arabic a compulsory subject for entrance to the Malta University. Mintoff's anti-west stance went down very well with Ghaddafi; Mintoff used to refer to the Libyans as the brothers of the Maltese. But when later Ghaddafi sent Libyan gunboats to the Medina Bank oil exploration site, Mintoff was miffed off and called the Libyans Malta's worst enemies and relations between the two countries turned sour.Ghaddafi's relations with Europe and the US were at their lowest ebb during the 1980s and 90s, but when Ghaddafi promised to ditch terrorist activities (ctd)

@J Martinelli
"Gaddafi can roll out all the red carpets Libya has, but in this instance he is still dealing with a leader of the Opposition. "

If he has rolled the red carpets for Joseph when he's still in opposition, he will certainly roll them more when Joseph is Prime Minister.

@Martin Büttner
"Interesting! His first visit outside Malta leads the new opposition leader to no one else but Ghaddafi's Libya (and probably to Ghaddafi himself)."

Anything wrong with visiting a neighboring country when politicians from far-away central europe do the same to promote their interests?

Everyone is forgetting that after Libya sent a gunboat, the leader of the Opposition of that time Dr Fenech Adami and the triumvirate of the PN alias Dr Vincent Tabone, Dr Gwido Demarco and Dr Ugo Mifsud Bonnici rushed to Libya for the very first time to talk to Malta's "enemy" Colonel Gaddafi.

@Mr Aguis

Ahna mhux warm welcome iridu imma serious talk about stopping illegal immigrants from leaving Libya and coming to Malta. Oil discussion too maybe he will give us some discount in oil

The only good thing that Joseph can do on his flying visit to 'our friendly neighbour' is to convince the colonel that we can do without their migrants in our SAR.
I however doubt the colonel would even spare 5 mins to meet him though, let alone find ways to absolve us from this predicament!
I guess more hot air to boot with that of the recent Gonzi and Fenech Adami visits.

@ Martin Buttner. Well, Germany cares much more about its relationship with Putin's Russia than that with it's Baltic EU neighbours......

"@JFarrugia....What were your comments a few months ago when the President of Malta visited Libya?
Or when the Prime mInister L Gonzi visited Libya and was left waiting for hours on end before being granted an 'audience'.

It is strange how you are so silent on certain issues and then, bang....the kraken awakes...

As for calling anyone with a different opinion Elves...well..first you could try to be more original, and secondly, if I shall have the pleasure of being called an elf, I shall once again repeat...proud to be an elf, beats being an ogre or orc...

@ all red eyed Moaners

The mlp party had initially refused to specify where Dr Muscat is, but, within minutes of being questioned, it said he is in Libya, ?? the earthquake had Begun !!! he j.m is going to warn the Libyan regime not to send the illegal migrants to Malta and to supply us Oil for free ?
Hell No , I was just joking. Why did they try to keep this a secret ? I don't know ???.

The people still remember. Libya stands for decades of terrorism. Nowadays it stands for oil and gas and business the Europeans want to have.
Mr Muscat is right to look around for new opportunities. Let him sell his soul like Schroeder, Berlusconi and Sarkozy did before.

@ Frank Muscat

Nothing wrong with Malta having good relations with Libya.

How about Libya having good relations with Malta?

One cannot describe a relationship as a one way transaction.

Visits may be useful but keeping promises is more important.

@s.bugeja
The leader of ALL the Maltese is Dr Gonzi

@ Martin Büttner

This proves once more that Maltese politicians (be they MLP or PN) care more about Libya's view on them than the Europeans' ones.

Would you say German politicians and companies care more about being in Libya's good books than anything else judging by the scramble for lucrative Libyan contracts? Wouldn't do to be outdone by the French, British and Italians would it? That's how much some Europeans care. Why upset Libya with say the trivial issue of illegal immigration when there is so much to lose.
Some in Europe seem to assume that only they have the legitimate right to act in their own national interest.

Not to mention the "understanding" reaction Malta got from Libya after the assassination of Fathi Shqaqi by Mossad in Malta in 1995.

Libya knew full well who Shaweshi really was since he was travelling on a false Libyan identity. Obviously so did Israel.

It was Malta who was in the dark and found itself in the middle of this affair. Yet, the Maltese embassy in Tripoli faced a spontenous (no such thing down south) demonstration attributing responsibility when the Maltese authorities did not know who the man really was.

Despite this, I have no beef for Dr Muscat's visit in Libya. While it's healthy to bear in mind who our neighbour is, Dr Muscat is doing what others have done before him, both locally and overseas.

And we all know how much Libya's promises are worth, whether made to Nationalist or Labour politicians.
Now who does this sentence remind me of....Oh oh I know It should read
And we all know how much Gonzi's promises are worth, whether made to Nationalists or Labourites

@ G. Curmi

So that's your opinion of Libya. You are of course entitled to it, but does Minister Dalli share your opinion. THAT would be very interesting to know.

Libya came to our aid until we got rid of the British base then it committed "an act worthy of the worst enemy" Mintoff's own words.

If Dr. Muscat's visit to Libya is such a big benefit for Malta why all the secrecy? This behaviour is typical of the MLP.we don't even know if he's going to meet Muammar. Don't the Maltese people have a right to know what the leader of half the Maltese is doing?

@ J Agius Where did you learn that Dr.Muscat was given a great welcome?

The biggest companies investing in Malta are German, Lufthansa technique for one

Libya is the biggest exporter to Malta of humans so far.

Sarkozy's visit to Libya was to finalize a deal to build a nuclear reactor just on our doorstep.

Berlusconi's visit was to promise Gaddafi 5 billion dollars as reparation.

Libya has no friends just opportunities.

Blah,Blah,blah, Why did the Prime Minister of Italy go to Libya???? Berlusconi went there because his country needs the business and OIL. As for Joseph, he has gone there, maybe Gaddafi can help us?? because we do need help at the moment, you people annoy me, its two weights two measures with you guys, at the moment we need all the help that we can get, as the GRANDE FRATELLO E.U will only offer us help on a voluntary basis.

it is useless saying against Joseph and his visit to libya . Just keep in mind that Libya is being considered as the new Dubai and good relations between the 2 countries can only be seen positive . Even America has realised this and is trying hard to go back on good terms with this country so why shouldn't Malta?

Recently Libya signed a pact with Italy to forgive and forget (?) what the Italians had done in Libya in bygone years. And Berlusconi signed the agreement which will cost Italy millions of euros. Plus a fleet of patrol boats to guard the Libyan Coast. The ink was still fresh when the Colonel decided that Italian Interior Minister Maroni should never touch Libyan soil. is this the type of agreements these elves want us to have? Is this the man with whom we have to work? Is this the government which goes back on its signatures? Lackeys were never men of honour. The Libyans need a change of regime which unfortunately is not on the cards as yet.

With friends like Libya and Muammar Ghaddafi who needs enemies?

Let us not forget Gaddafi's and Libya's display of "neighbourly friendship" when in 1980 Ghaddafi sent a Libyan gunboat and submarine to "persuade" Maltese oil exploration crews to stop their work on the Medina bank inside Maltese territorial waters. Ghaddafi claimed them to be Libyan territory.

Let us not forget Libya's friendly gesture when Ghaddafi's henchmen in 1988 reportedly used Malta to plant the bomb that brought down PanAm Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland killing 270 people.

Perhaps Malta should thank Ghaddafi and Libya for their active involvement in sending us thousands of illegal immigrants costing Maltese taxpayers untold amounts of money. I think not. It now suits Ghaddafi's and Libya's purposes to say that the same territorial waters of the gunboat episode are Malta's responsibility when it comes to saving the lives of the poor people they intentionally send our way.

Libya and Ghaddafi - friendly neighbour - how blind can some people be?

Gaddafi can roll out all the red carpets Libya has, but in this instance he is still dealing with a leader of the Opposition.

The best Joseph can hope for is more promises if he ever becomes Prime Minister.

And we all know how much Libya's promises are worth, whether made to Nationalist or Labour politicians.

Malta is Malta and Libya is Libya. I fully agree. I also agree that Mintoff's government had succeeded in acquiring outstanding assistance from Italy (or was it from USA, really?), yet the Jamahiriya has been very positive in its relations with Malta and bailed us out when we most needed to be bailed out. The Fenech Adami government, it must admitted, too helped Libya when she needed assistance, you should know what I am referring to. History cannot be changed. Now it seems to be Libya's turn to help us out in the colossal quandary we found ourselves in. Should we snub Libya's outstretched arms? ..... Eh?

I agree with all except for Herr Martin Buttner.
Perhaps Dr. J. Muscat will attempt to ameliorate relations between our two countries. Something that the NP has failed to do - as they had only one vision that of Europe and nothing else mattered.

Let us hope that Joseph Muscat is going to attempt to change Malta's failed policy with regards to Libya.

With all the promises, results have been just illusions.

It is obvious that a fresh approach is needed.

Oh yes Libya cares for us so much. How many illegal immigrants has Libya sent over this year ? Is it 3000 or more?

Mr V. Micallef,
I trust you know the several German companies employing so many Maltese in Malta?
So let us be sensible. When making comments which can be seen by many, think first.

I am sure Joseph will get a good deal for Malta! Labour Party always had good relationships with Gaddafi and managed to bring the best for Malta. This is the opposite of the PN who can get no deal from them

@Martin Büttner
We already have the eu foreigners telling us what to do.
So now do we also have to have foreigners telling us who to meet?

It is not completely true to say that Libya always came to Malta's rescue. That role belongs to Italy. The financial protocols that Malta got from Italy are no match from what Malta got from Libya. I m in favour of strong relations with both countries, although, in any case the relation with Italy is stronger now with EU membership.

I quote :" Libya has proven her friendship towards Malta on several occasions, particularly when Malta sorely needed Libya's timely assistance " . Simply shocking !!!! Ask something to the Maltese living in Libya in the 70's and 80's how they used to feel welcomed and loved by Ghaddafy regime, ask how their property rights were treated after several generations that they lived there...... Even Dom Mintoff who was supposed to be Gaddafi 's best friend at the time had to re-think its attitude towards Libya after Medina Bank affair.....

Ah yes Frans Sammut. Has Libya proven its firendship with us? What about the gunboat incident? That;'s quite a nice friendship! Your mentor Mintoff even called them Worst enemies! What about the illegal immigration? That's friendship eh? With Italy this colonel agrees everything, but with tiny Malta NO. Drugs only. Hallina Frans. And why did those elves criticise Fenech Adami for visiting and hugging Libya? Now its the turn of Joseph Muscat to do the same. Bare faced or doublefaced politics, is it what this game is called? Poking fun at others while you do the same thing, isn't this hypocrisy! Libya is libya while Malta is Malta.

I fully concur with V.Micallef, Renald Dalli and Enzo Caruana. Libya has proven her friendship towards Malta on several occasions, particularly when Malta sorely needed Libya's timely assistance. I would like to congratulate the Leader of the Opposition for his timing. Yes, the fact that he reserved his first official visit abroad for a meeting reportedly with the Libyan leader is highly commendable. The message must have already gotten through in the quarters that matter. Well done, Leader of the Opposition, good show, Sir.

Is Mr Buttner jealous of the welcome Dr Muscat was given by the Colonel in sharp contrast with the reception given to Dr Fenech Adami?

@Martin Buttner
Please add Nicolas Sarkozy to the list I gave you in my previous comment. The French president met Col Gaddafi in Tripoli on 27 July 2007

@ Martin Büttner

Can't you see, Herr Büttner that whenever Malta was in a dire financial situation, it was always Gaddafi's Libya to bail us out? Where could we turn, to Frau Merkel? Come down to earth, my friends, we live in the Mediterranean and only our Mediterranean neighbours really care for us, as much as the Nordics are apt to look after other Nordics. Eurovision is not the only playing field where this camaraderie is present and evidently so.

Why are you so shocked Mr Buttner?

German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder went to Tripoli and met Col Gaddafi in October 2004
Tony Blair did the same in March of the same year
Sivio Berlusconi was there on an official visit last June, and
Condoleezza Rice met the Libyan leader in a historical visit on 5 September

What's wrong then if Maltese political leaders keep close contacts and good relations with a friendly neighbouring country that offers great trade and investment opportunities? This is what the 'big guys' are doing after all

What is wrong in visiting a neighouring country, the same country where Mrs Rice on behalf the USA and Berlusconi have just visited? Let us hope that thanks to such a visit, we regain part of the business lost with Libya in recent years.

@ Buttner.....? I am a floater....and still cannot understand your comment! FYI, Libya is the fifth oil producer (oil hedging......future relations) and the Maltese economy has many business interest in the country. From Pantalesco to Corinthia just to name two! I believe that his visit, is crucial to keep good relations with neighbouring nations.....weather its the PN or the MLP!

What's wrong with that Martin? Libya is a major player in the illegal immigration problem and the oil drilling business and we surely need to talk with them. I think Joseph Muscat has also been talking to Europeans for quite a while now. After all though, Libya is our neighbour and we can't change that, no matter how European we might feel.

Interesting! His first visit outside Malta leads the new opposition leader to no one else but Ghaddafi's Libya (and probably to Ghaddafi himself).

This proves once more that Maltese politicians (be they MLP or PN) care more about Libya's view on them than the Europeans' ones.
The fact that initially MLP didn't want to specify Mr Muscat's location shows their guilty conscience about this dependency.
Viva Labour, viva Malta, viva Libya...