Another two Black Storks shot down

joseph lia

Sep 26th 2008, 18:17

To all those readers who are clammering for a ban in hunting.......read carefully.
Hunting IS banned from 3pm onwards....NO ONE is allowed to carry or keep even in its cover a hunting gun, NO ONE is allowed not even to be found in possession of cartridges (which by the way are used for hunting....not bullets).
These ILLEGAL shootings took place during the Hunting BAN!!!
No law abiding hunter was out or is out hunting during this period (because the 3pm hunting ban is still in force!)
A few renegade individuals still flaunt the law, a FEW, I repeat, these are the idiots who never learn. Like it or not hunting is worldwide, legal hunting will remain, and no 'hundreds' were NOT shot down (check out CABS and BLM website). Still the idiots who keep running freely and causing such a bad name due to their poaching must be caught.

J Pace

Sep 26th 2008, 18:09

Ms. Zarb Darmanin,

are you actually suggesting that CABS have lied when they reported two Black Storks were shot down? Where you anywhere near the vicinity where the storks were flying to be able to suggest otherwise? Why is it so hard for you to understand that a majority of hunters, yes, do shoot at any that flies? Don't you ever witness any illegal killing of many species of birds? Well, I have, time and time again and I don't need to lie about it.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Sep 26th 2008, 16:47

Mr. P. Borg, it appears that you have missed reading quite a number of comments. Please note that illegal shooting of birds, apart from this report (to which I have commented below) occurred after 3p.m. when hunting was banned. Therefore your argument

"If hunting was banned completly it would be illegal to even carry the fire arm, let aone shoot it. So if any one was out hunting he would be easily caught, or not go out at all. "

does not hold water.

Chris Galea

Sep 26th 2008, 16:34

@P Borg
I'm sorry I don't think that by banning hunting would solve any problem,cause those video clips where taken when hunting was not permitted,the seson is closed already in the afternoon,as I already said,who wants to break the law will still,immaterial if the season is open or closed !

Chris Galea

Sep 26th 2008, 16:23

@A Bonnanno
Yes we have a right to shoot game species,that's the role of a game bird,to be captured/shot/bred & slaughtered to be utilized as food,wild or not.Over the centuries man has chosen GAME as a prime food source( cause it is) !!!Fish and meat were and will always be prime food in man's diet,being taken from the wild or reared and then killed.That's why game birds are no one's ! for eveyone to take !
No I'm not trying to divert the issue,what ever you eat,once upon time that was alive !!! if you're not some vegetarian !
( I hope you're not confusing game birds with birds in general eg. seagulls,robins,etc )

P.Borg

Sep 26th 2008, 14:26

I think that who ever is saying that banning hunting will make no difference is wrong!

As it is the police have to catch some one actually shooting a protected bird etc....so not that easy.

If hunting was banned completly it would be illegal to even carry the fire arm, let aone shoot it. So if any one was out hunting he would be easily caught, or not go out at all.

Basically, if there is no one out hunting, protected birds would be safer , so I think that it would make a differene.

Not saying that I agree to a hunting ban, actually I dont, but you have to agree that it would make a difference.

carmelo borg pisani

Sep 26th 2008, 12:18

I thought that maltese are becoming racists. If the storks where white storks they would not have been shot down.

S,baldacchino

Sep 26th 2008, 11:36

@ A. Camilleri

Ok maybe not yet on the danger list but rare. hope you checked on the web sites i suggested to see who are the real treats of extermination of birds. http://www.lipu.it/news/no.asp?691 http://www.birdlife.org/news/news/2005/02/italy_hunting_lakes.html.
And these are just two

A Bonanno

Sep 26th 2008, 11:00

@ Chris Grech

Seems like you're doing your utmost to divert the issue onto another similar problem, thus avoiding this simple question!

Please note that one wrong do not justify two wrongs... No license or any politically backed agenda gives you any right to take something which is all ours!

Nonetheless, since the topic under discussion is hunting, I'm again directing this question to a hunter:
* If hunters argue that they have a right to kill a bird, don't I have the same right to see it fly?
* If birds are a COMMON RESOURCE (ie. it is owned by NO individual, but owned collectively) how is it that that anyone can claim OWNERSHIP on it?
* Who gave the right to anyone to take something which is also mine and others'?

Btw - I have no interest whatsoever in fishing, hunting, or any other similar hobbies, tasks, jobs, financial interests or whatever....

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Sep 26th 2008, 10:58

Mr. Schembri you did an unfounded accusation in my regard!

I have always believed that most of the anti-hunting lobby's arguments are non-factual. Indeed, the past couple of days have confirmed by beliefs. Slinging unfounded accusations galore! Let us behave like well-educated grown-ups, please!!!

Ray Gatt

Sep 26th 2008, 09:35

@ G Grech - I still have to witness a stuffed fish in a trophy showcase. But protected birds I've seen.
@ Sylvana Zarb Darmanin - I did phone the ALE, and not just on that occasion. That's the reason I have their number in my cell phone.

When I discuss the subject with hunters, they say that for them shooting down certain species is just like winning a trophy. The bigger the better. That's why they stuff them and put them in a showcase.

laurence schembri

Sep 26th 2008, 00:04

Sorry Lady, I have nothing to apologise for, I did not shoot the storks out of the sky.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Sep 25th 2008, 21:38

Mr Lawrence Schembri, if you are to be taken seriously, please substantiate your argument as to when I condoned illegalities. I am sorry to say that it has become the practice of a number of individuals from the anti-hunting lobby to write inaccuracies about pro-hunting individuals. Not to mention also that when they are proved wrong they refrain from aplogising. I consider such individuals as being much worse than the illegal hunters - and that is saying something!!!!!!

G. Grech

Sep 25th 2008, 19:18

@A. Bonanno

Have you ever heard of people who go fishing for fun and also enjoy eating their catch? Aren't they killing a living creature that is a COMMON RESOURCE. Do they have a right to do so? Do I have the right to stop them? Answer my questions please....no two weights two measures...Fishing as a hobby...hunting as a hobby. What we catch we eat...perfectly identical...answers please. You did not saying anything against illegal fishing...do you have any personal interests?? Why is it that children are taught that hunting is wrong but are encouraged to take up a sport like fishing? What is the difference?

And yes I am a hunter who shoots at game birds for consumption, I do not sell my catch and do not distribute for free. What I catch, I consume....I have every right to do so since I pay a licence granting me permision to do so. If you want your share...no one is stopping you from doing the same.

Now if you give a hoot of what the law says, you are no better than those who shoot at PROTECTED birds.

Charles Micallef

Sep 25th 2008, 19:13

I was reading this article to the next door neighbour's little girl,
and her immediate question was,

Who is going to deliver the babies now? kids!

R Muscat

Sep 25th 2008, 18:21

What a SHAME storks are the legendary carriers of babies, how could these uncivilised barbarians do this. TOTAL BAN ON HUNTING please !!!!

laurence schembri

Sep 25th 2008, 18:13

@ A. Bonanno
It is like banging your head against a brick wall. All the people that chose to give an answer with regards to the killing of the Black Storks claim to adhere to legality, so who are the culprits?
Some of these hunters must be in the vicinity of these illegal hunters, hunting areas on this island are quite limited, so why don`t they report them?
I live in a small village were hunting is the pastime of many. Asking one young hunter as to why they kill such beautiful creatures, his answer was prompt and disturbing: ``if I don`t bring down these kind of birds there is no point in me going out``... and there you have it straight from the horses mouth.

Andrew Gatt

Sep 25th 2008, 17:36

FYI, CABS have sent our PM a list of DEMANDS to further erode and curtail ALL hunting - legal or otherwise - thus giving poachers more space and opportunity to operate unmolested! While I cannot condemn incidents like these strongly enough, I had a good laugh when I visited CABS' website. Ghandhom biex jiftahru, hej!

"Unlike other EU states, there is a widespread lack of hunting controls in Germany. The maxim here is self-control. In many hunting preserves shooting of raptors, poisoning of ‘predators’ and other offences against hunting and nature protection legislation, is therefore the order of the day." - quote taken verbatim from CABS website.

Ohhhh so virginal Germans......whiter than white.......shining halos and all...... and CABS choose to come here! Something's not quite right.............hey! Let's all go to Germany and run around demanding here and there. That'll show 'em!

Keith Herlock

Sep 25th 2008, 16:51

I have visited Malta and Gozo several times now and the thought has crossed my mind that in some ways the islands resemble the wild west. I think the only solution to advancing the hunting mentality is education. Surely once children in schools can see the complex and interesting lives that birds lead, the flock and family type relationships they can have etc with each other and so on, then they will come to have respect and even love for wildlife. Perhaps they will see that it really isn't 'fun' or 'sport' to kill creatures which are part of the beauty of nature. A word which means little or nothing to these hunters I suspect.

Chris Galea

Sep 25th 2008, 16:09

@A Bonnano
"So, does it mean that if a politician gives you a license to kill someone, you have a right to do it?" there I think you're very out of point !!! - ! But well what are soldiers for ?!
There are birds and birds,there's a section of birds that are named game,made/born/created for man to be utilized as food,yes even in the twentieth century ! Now who told you that I cannot shoot my own meat and that I have to eat processed man made food.
With your same argument don't eat turkey on Christmas or go to Macdonalds or KFC,cause no one "owns" them ! and for BBQS grill lettuce not burgers and sausages ( well who owns lettuce ?!)

A Bonanno

Sep 25th 2008, 15:26

@ Chris Galea

So, does it mean that if a politician gives you a license to kill someone, you have a right to do it?

Legally or not, a bird is owned by NO ONE. Ornitohlogical committees, hunters associations nor politicians have a right on anything which is OWNED by everyone.

Who owns the bird? You? Me? The Ornithological Organisation? The Hunters Association? The Politician? Parliament?

Maybe, in the past when it served as a source of food for those who were hungry, it served a purpose. I give a hoot what laws say, or what they allow. My question is still unanswered: If the bird is owned by NO ONE, who is giving you the right to kill it? If you claim ownership, then I have a right to claim it TOO.

Thanks.... Please answer me!

Chris Galea

Sep 25th 2008, 15:25

@Laurence Schembri
"The slaughter goes on and not one person not even in government lift a finger."
I absolutely do not agree ! Why are September afternoons banned ?,Why was the spring season suddenly closed two years ago ? Why did the gov.asked the commisssioner of police to investigate CABS'claims of "massacares" Why do we have some of the heftiest fines in Europe ? How come the ALE have 4/5 4X4 vehicles for patrolling ? I personally think that the present gov. did much more than lift a finger !! and no, this country is not becoming a joke ,what the present gov.did about illegal hunting ia ALOT,you probably have no idea what use to happen just ten years ago,if not less !

S Mizzi

Sep 25th 2008, 15:22

Laurence Schembri, I don't recall anybody condoning illegalities.
Ray Gatt, a driver's licence gives one the right to drive a car within the parameters of the law whilst a hunting license gives one the right to shoot at legal quarry. Neither license gives one the right to run over or shoot at people or protected birds. That some do however, is a fact, and that's why there are? police. Also, next time you see cars racing after birds of prey, try practising what you preach and call the authorities. I as a hunter have done it many a time.
Please stop, all of you, putting hunters f'keffa wahda because yr saying a load of crap. Also the day shooting in Malta will stop for good will be the day it will have to stop in all of Europe. Like it or not, we're in, and as far as I know, our rights are all equal. Mhux hekk nibqaw, I can't shoot here because of the irresponsible few and incompetent authorities, whilst in neighbouring Sicily life goes on as usual. Yr fighting a lost battle. Just get your act together Govt. and come down hard on poachers not hunters.

S Mizzi

Sep 25th 2008, 15:21

A Bonanno, you have a right to shoot at legal game as much as I. I have a right to watch it fly as much as you. I can't stop you watching, you can't stop me shooting.
Also i'd love to watch you try and see a quail. First of all yd need to go out in April, when they're plentiful. This time of the year is quite useless. You'd need to wake up very early in the morning and yd need to wait for the right day with the right weather conditions. Oh and yd also need to own a sizeable tract of land. You would also need a cassette to attract them otherwise yr attempts would be tiring, but beware its illegal. Then yd need to invest in a good hunting dog to help find them and flush them. Hardly worth it though because the minute yv flushed it yd only see it for a split second after which its disappeared. I think I've put you off haven't I. I think your understanding about the subject is quite poor as is that of many contributors here.

laurence schembri

Sep 25th 2008, 14:03

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin. How can you condone such illegalities?
The slaughter goes on and not one person not even in government lift a finger.
This country is becoming the joke of the century.
Sorry Mr. Frans Vella, no, I do not understand.
Open skies do not belong to the indiscriminate maltese hunter, licence or not, has nothing to do with it.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Sep 25th 2008, 13:23

Mr. Ray Gatt, if you actually saw these cars and then saw them illegally shooting protected birds, the least you could have done was to note the car registration numbers and report them to the police. In fact, you were duty-bound to do such thing.

As for writing that "most of the hunters shoot at anything that flies", sorry Sir, I do not agree with you. Law-abiding hunters are in the thousands and I believe that it is you who are sticking "your head in the sand"!

Chris Galea

Sep 25th 2008, 13:15

@ A Bonanno
* Who gave the right to anyone to take something which is also mine and others'?"
Yes of coarse I have the right to take them,my hunting license allows to catch them,infact the hunting permit says for the taking of wild birds ! If you'd like some for yourself apply for a hunting license ! Good luck !!!

* If hunters argue that they have a right to kill a bird, don't I have the same right to see it fly?
Legal quarry can be shot,try and see them before thy're shot,Good luck once again !!

* If birds are a COMMON RESOURCE (ie. it is owned by NO individual, but owned collectively) how is it that that anyone can claim OWNERSHIP on it?
Once again our hunting license allows to take/catch/kill legal quarry,so please stop whining !!

Chris Rizzo

Sep 25th 2008, 13:05

The Shooting down of this protected bird is disgusting.
These acts are damaging the reputation of Malta and its citizens and the government should do more to stop illegal hunting and stop dragging its feet

Ray de Bono

Sep 25th 2008, 11:47

Where are those against fellow EU monitors now? Can these fellows explain WHO would have noticed, filmed and acted upon these barbarities? The police alone could barely start with controlling the reckless slaughter of protected birds...Some of the hunters, it seems, are destroying the reputation of their fellow law abiding ones...But lets face it, what’s happening is BAD, it’s been going on for years, and our local police were ill equipped to handle/control. The fellow EU observers are appreciated and needed. We should get them also to see over the reckless building sprawling all over our remaining green patches...Maybe we start seeing progress in that department, too...

Ray Gatt

Sep 25th 2008, 11:05

@ Frans Vella. I have a driving license. Does that give me the right to run you over?

@ Sylvana Zarb Darmanin - we do not need clips to assure us what goes on out there. Whatever you believe, most of the hunters shoot at anything that flies and you know this too. Remember the massacre on the flock of protected birds a couple of years back in and around Buskett? On that day I happened to be in the stretch of road that starts at saqqajja hill and leads to Siggiewi and Buskett. All of a sudden, chasing the flock like madman were half a dozen vehicles and I can assure you they where not birdwatchers. You can stick your head in the sand as much as you like, cause the truth is undenyable and you know it. Sport my backside. Konservazzjonisti - what exactly do they conserve?

Stop hunting for good.

A Bonanno

Sep 25th 2008, 10:01

@ Mr G Grech

Oh... What an interesting reply!

From what you wrote, I understand that you earn your living solely on hunting. The argument between fishing for eating and hunting for fun is very interesting! Do you hunt and sell them for meat or do you eat it all? If you sell them, can you please indicate us where you distribute them free? Since you expect that fishermen go risking their lives to catch fish, are to distribute them free, I assume that you do the same with birds!

However you did not answer my reply! My question was on birds and not on fish! If the topic was related to fish, I would have asked the fishermen. But, since you are a hunter, can you please answer me this SIMPLE question?

* If hunters argue that they have a right to kill a bird, don't I have the same right to see it fly?
* If birds are a COMMON RESOURCE (ie. it is owned by NO individual, but owned collectively) how is it that that anyone can claim OWNERSHIP on it?
* Who gave the right to anyone to take something which is also mine and others'?

victor vella

Sep 25th 2008, 07:13

BAN HUNTING FOR GOOD these so caled conservatist are not conserving anything but ruining the lives of so many birds and the enjoyment of the country side for other citizens,why can't I take my family safely to the country side during the week in the hunting season?Am I a citizen or not? Mr Prime Minister I know this is a hot potato but you are guaranteed respect and yes even votes if you take the step forward and ban hunting for good.

G.Grech

Sep 25th 2008, 05:56

@ A. Bonanno

Why don't you answer this question?

Since fish is a COMMON RESOURCE just like birds, why do people have to pay to buy fish. What right do fishermen have to catch fish which is COMMON RESOURCE and then make you pay for it. Next time you see a fish hawker, go and ask him to give you your share for free because the fish is not his.

I don't want any fish to be caught from the wild because that is mine as well!! And what about illegal fishing???? BAN fishing! BAN fishing! BAN fishing!

I'm waiting for answers, Mr. A Bonanno. Thanks!

J. Borg

Sep 25th 2008, 01:02

Dr. Gonzi ...... what's next?

L BORG

Sep 24th 2008, 23:39

TO THE CABS
7 MORE WERE SHOT THIS AFTERNOON PUTTING THE NUMBERS TO10
SADLY ONCE ONE BIRD IS SHOT THE OTHER DO NOT LEAVE MALTA AND KEEP ON LOOKING FOR THE OTHERS THAT HAVE BEEN SHOT
THIS END TO THE WHOLE FLOCK BEING SHOT
SO SAD AND PERHAPS SOME RAIDS ON TAXIDERMIST TO FIND THE DEAD ONES

ellen schmidt

Sep 24th 2008, 21:50

...is the police afraid to act as well as politicians? Whats happening in this country?

How can one shoot storks or harm any other creature?

9 storks left though......!

Jeremy J Camilleri

Sep 24th 2008, 18:20

Alan Falzon..the frozen bird slaughter was of course referrring to past incidents in which KNK tried to convince that these birds were killed by Birdlife. I have a goods number of friends of mine, hunters of course, who really do believe these theories.

As regards the challenge.. I go cycling in the countryside every Sunday, and the rampant hunting is evident. I have seen birds of prey shot out of the sky, have witnessed Sunday afternoon hunting, and have even been littered with lead pellets when taking tourists to visit the cart ruts....

So yes, the invitation is open to anyone with an open mind.,.....,

Of course convinced hunters have even come up with a code to communicate non hunter's presence, so well, the invitation to hunters might be rather unproductive.

alan Falzon

Sep 24th 2008, 16:58

Ban Hunting.
Improve our country side. Get these so called hunters/bird lovers and give them part time jobs looking after the reserves and give tours to foreigners/maltese.
With their knowledge I am sure they would be better off.
At this point, its only them who want to hunt. Every body else is sick and tired of them.
And the funny thing is, they keep shooting anything that flies!

As to Mr.J J Camilleri's challenge, is he serious?

A.Farrugia

Sep 24th 2008, 16:56

@G.Attard
Although you do have a point about the pesticide / flies / etc... which your argument is even greater given the environment pollution that pesticides produce, you open up a can of worms with that line of thought. What you are saying is that, since people murder insects and you murder birds, than what stops me from going about in the countryside and starting a so called hobby of shooting at any dog that i see. Why can you kill birds but I would be charged if I shot at a dog ?
As I have stated in a previous note I sent in response to Mr. Mifsud B, humans put different values on different beings. Its not fair, I know, but that is reality. Why do some people collect roaches while others kill them ? In a way the value system also has its positive aspects, because there might be people who would put less value to fellow humans and decide to poach them. they also attribute less value to insects that pose a poisoning threat to humans. It not necessarily correct, but its the way we evolved. Things change by time, will you follow ?

george attard

Sep 24th 2008, 16:39

The CABS group is correct in stating that all hunting should stop, likewise after every accident all drivers must report to the police station and stop driving, so no one will break the law again whilst driving.also all contractors should stop building as some of them also break the law.
Give us a break and arrest those that break the law not be a nuisance and busybody to everyone.
And for those that want to see slaughter every house that uses insecticides is slaughtering millions of flys and ants.

Jeremy j Camilleri

Sep 24th 2008, 15:14

Who knows? Cabs may have even perfected the frozen bird shot out of the sky by bird lovers tactic.....

I challenge anyone here to go for a walk in the countryside and witness this slaughter!.

Tony Caruana

Sep 24th 2008, 13:45

Guys
these are poachers and Cowboys not Hunters ! There is a difference.

Until the Govermant and the Police decide to Grab the horns by the Bull and stop these people, they will carry on. It is the Authorities responsability to catch theese people not the Hunters albeit i agree that Hunters should assist whenever possible.

How about Hunting Wardens ?

I. M. Dingli

Sep 24th 2008, 13:36

@ Tony Muscat

Did I understand you correctly, are you actually suggesting the Government should train the hunters in order to improve their aim? Wouldn't that lead to more birds being killed since the hunters will become sharp shooters!

Tony muscat

Sep 24th 2008, 13:22

At Frans vella,

I really do not understand your concept of just because the hunter pay his license he can do whatever he wants and because they happen to see the birds first then they are somehow entitled to burst the poor bird out of the sky.

The reality is that hunting per se is good, when it is game hunting and thus they eat what they kill. BUT, hunters in Malta do not go out for game hunting, but rather TROPHY hunting. that is why the abuse on birds of prey etc.

Re licenses, we are giving licenses too easily to everyone, without even having put them to test to see whether they know (in practice) how to aim. if we want to be serious about the sport, the Government should wake up. Make stricter laws, all public land should be free from hunting (to be enjoyed by everyone the same), licenses given on a temporary basis (every 3 years you have to sit again for your test) and on a period of specific number of months under training and supervision by competent bodies.

As it is now, it is farce, no wonder everyone is doing whatever he wants..

J Oatmon

Sep 24th 2008, 12:26

@ n. franks -
Democracy is majority rule and that is fact not an idea. Democracy is something as simple as making motorcyclists wear helmets, even if they don't want to, and car drivers wear seat belts. Democracy is not saying because you are a minority you can do what you like - it is one law for all, and no one is above the law, even if you are a minority group.

It is 2008, and not 1808 when bird shooting was an accepted way to get food.Now we go to the supermaket to buy our birds, we do not blast them out of the sky.
Bird shooting has had it's day, its just like using horses as personal transport - it's over.

Paul Barrett

Sep 24th 2008, 12:03

@ All those that claim that the majority of hunters keep within the law and only a tiny minority are poaching/illegally shooting protected birds both in and out of the closed periods.

Taking that as true, the "good guys" should get out there and stop the "bad guys". Basically good hunters need to get out there and act as police for their hobby; they have the knowledge, experience, skills and it is in their best interests to put a stop to illegal hunting/poaching 24/7.

They (the honest, true and legal hunters) claim to have the numbers far superior to law enforcement CABS etc; get organised and use them to put a stop to those hunters/poachers that can't keep within the law.

A Bonanno

Sep 24th 2008, 11:11

@MMB

Sorry, but you did not answer my question. The fishy argument stinks as there is a clear distinction between hunting for food and hunting for fun. Birds are a COMMON RESOURCE, and as such they are not yours, neither mine!

Therefore NO ONE has a right to take what is all ours.

Re fish, I do agree that illegal fishing should also stop. But on the other hand, fishing as a means of survival may be somewhat justified. However, hunting for fun can never be justified, unless hunters use it as their sole method of survival (for eating). If they hunt for fun, then this is not justified.

Maybe I'll repeat the question, and maybe, SOMEONE can answer me:

* If hunters argue that they have a right to kill a bird, don't I have the same right to see it fly?
* If birds are a COMMON RESOURCE (ie. it is owned by NO individual, but owned collectively) how is it that that anyone can claim OWNERSHIP on it?
* Who gave the right to anyone to take something which is also mine and others'?

Charles P Cilia

Sep 24th 2008, 11:10

Surely if the CABS could do it why couldn’t the local police? Or, why not give the job to our local wardens; they could do with a real challenge. Instead of hiding around corners in the safety of their cars waiting to nab anyone who in their opinion is contravening the law.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Sep 24th 2008, 11:09

As all are aware, I condemn all illegal acts. However, CABS, can we see videos this time as well - possibly showing the time as well!!

As I see it, CABS realised that yesterday's reported Shot Bird in the evening was exposed by the pro-hunting lobby as taking place after 3.00p.m. and thus a ban on hunting will not solve the problem. This time they made sure they mention the morning! - Mr. Conlin must have pulled their ears for such a slip!!!

Emily Baldacchino

Sep 24th 2008, 10:56

Whoever said talk is cheap was right. These arragont, ignorant people keep doing this and getting away with this. I openly disagree with hunting altogether but, as with anything else, there are some good hunters out there who observe the law. However, the good ends up suffering with the bad and I honestly cannot say I'm disappointed. The people who are hunting protected bird species cannot be allowed to keep doing this; they are destroying our environment and these beautiful creatures. If everyone took the time to get to know a bird's migratory path and the struggles they face without having hunters shooting at them, I am sure there will be a lot more birds migrating over Malta. Words are just that...condemn them as much as you want but I'm sure it will just fall on deaf ears and more birds will be shot as we speak. ACTION needs to be taken and I feel bad about those legitimate hunters who follow the rules (which I'm sure are very few and far between) but this has to stop.

Jimmy vella

Sep 24th 2008, 10:55

What is unbelievable about all this killing of protected birds that most Maltese want to see flying and not on in a cupboard is the shear incompetence of the police I mean malta if you sit in the middle you can see the sea all around you so with a small binoculars they can identify who shoots after 3 pm and what about searching and stopping cars of known hunters and searching them .come on boys and girls you do not justify wearing that uniform in the name of justice .The government needs to bring police from Europe.as ours are not competent .In fact they are hindering the process .

Dave Alan Caruana

Sep 24th 2008, 10:53

I think you're meant to shout "it's coming at me" before gunning down the stork / harrier / random rare species ..

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Sep 24th 2008, 10:47

@A Farrugia

I agree that animals have been attributed different values. And also that certain animals should be protected..

What i do not agree is you generalizing about birds being protected. Their are a fair amount of birds which are recognized as game and can be legally hunted. This is no different to saying that some animals are reared to be eaten, or to fish being caught .

The hunter hunts these birds in the same way a fisherman catches his fish. All game hunted is eaten.

The whole issue at present is illegal shooting of protected birds, This is not a form of hunting but a despicable act against nature. This problem which is not only particular to Malta has been blown out of proportion by those that oppose hunting. Unfortunately these sort do not recognize the right of people to hunt when at the same time they see no objection to anyone fishing.

This is not because as you state " fish are hidden below the water" because the ones we consume are not, But because these sort of people are not distinguishing between what is legal and what is not. And subsequently lobby for a hunting ban.

Frans vella

Sep 24th 2008, 10:42

@a bonanno,
I will try to explain how it is, simple very simple not yours not mine, just like the illegal emigrants ,not yours and not mine, Malta finds them Malta keeps them the worst thing is they are living on our pockets,they are taking our jobs,and doing many other things better not mention them here, the hunter on the other side is paying licences fee. see very simple easy to understand.
Thank You ( hope you and many others understand how it is)

Bertu Cassar

Sep 24th 2008, 10:32

@ Andrew Gatt
So Mr Gatt, do you know for a fact that illegal hunting goes on during the closed season? have you ever seen/heard of anyone poaching? if you haven't seen/heard how do you know that illegal hunting is being carried out during the close season? on the other hand, if you heard/seen anyone did you report it?
If you did not report it why?

From a maltese citizen not member/affiliated with any bird conservation soceity or group.

P.S. i always was intrigued by the "Konservazjonisti" part in the FKNK name. can anyone enlighten me on how you practice this "konservazjonizmu"?

Thanks

John Galea

Sep 24th 2008, 10:32

We have been here countless years.... illegal hunting, indiscriminate killing of protected and unprotected birds and so on.

As far as I am concerned no administration in Malta has, or ever had, the will to control this abuse. In more civilised countries, hunting is not a right but a very, very expensive hobby. As long as in Malta one can pay a pittance and hunt all year round, then there will never ever be any control. The only way to curb hunting is to control the hunters' pockets. How about a 200 Euro daily permit for hunting? With fines ranging into thousands of Euros for contraventions?

Does the government, any government, has the political will to implement such a system? It is glaringly apparent that any government must start calculating the loss of votes for NOT controlling hunting rather than the opposite.

This solution, which is used in many countries, has been staring at us in the face for many years - but Nelson's example is always ably followed in Malta!!

B Sant

Sep 24th 2008, 10:31

There is only one market solution to stop the hunting season... make mepa approve all application to build in ODZ . No more country side, birds wil disappear and birds will be spared. Mepa is on the right track just a big push and we';ll get it all sorted

Sandro Zahra

Sep 24th 2008, 10:29

my opinion on this is to track down at least of the hunters that break the law (by shooting down protected birds) and make him pay for ALL his fellow illegal hunters!

stephen grech

Sep 24th 2008, 10:23

First of all I'm against any form of illegal hunting but who are we to believe?! They say that the black stork is a rarity so I searched a bit in the internet and came to see the Birdlife International site and this is what they have to say about this species;
Summary This species has a large range, with an estimated global Extent of Occurrence of 1,000,000-10,000,000 km². It has a large global population estimated to be 32,000-44,000 individuals (Wetlands International 2002). Global population trends have not been quantified, but the species is not believed to approach the thresholds for the population decline criterion of the IUCN Red List (i.e. declining more than 30% in ten years or three generations). For these reasons, the species is evaluated as Least Concern.
This is their website for those who would like to take a view: http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/index.html?action=SpcHTMDetails.asp&sid=3830&m=0.

Can you please decide if these species are that rare or common? To those who will start to retaliate about my comment, I just want to say that I'm not justifying these killings if they are really true but to stop these exagerations and yelling about massacares and be realistic when giving out information.

Bertu Cassar

Sep 24th 2008, 10:19

@Anthony Mifsud
"I will never dream or mistakenly shoot a Black Stork or any protected bird" this statement should be given some thought, especially the word "Mistakenly".So there is a risk of "mistakenly" shooting a protected species.
What difference does it make if ALE or CABS bring these Illegalities to light. Don't you agree that these are illegalities? as a hunter you should welcome this "indhil" as this will bring the illegal hunters to light and leave good legal hunters like yourself free to practice your "hobby" (and i use this term loosly) legally.

The problem is that altough there are some hunters who abide by the law,the stance FKNK has taken is the wrong approach.All the negative feelings towards hunters where not "instigated" as you put it by CABS or Birdlife but by the negative stance FKNK has taken.

As regards to instigating government,well if you really think that in Malta hunters have a majority of some sort to win a referendum you must be mistaken. I would make a deal with FKNK that if in a referendum 65% of the population does not vote against hunting then it is all guns on deck and continue with your slaughter/hobby.

A.Agius

Sep 24th 2008, 10:14

I am not saying that all what is happening here in malta is right but the CABS must show and say what is happening around europe especialy in there home country germany.They must show some videos about the colonies of cormorants that are being exterminated with the excuse that they are pests.They must tell the truth about the traps around all germany to kill raptors especialy the peregrine falcon.They must show us the plates full of finches in france.The CABS know that what I am saying is true and they know there are more massacares being happening around europe and they must also report it to the EU.CABS must show to maltese public that not only maltese hunters do this type of massacare.The truth is that malta is a very small country and they can cope with every thing that happens and on the other side in europe where there are vast territories know one sees or hear anything.

malcolm said

Sep 24th 2008, 10:09

@EVERYONE...
Do you really think that with a total hunting ban these illegalities will stop??? These poachers dont give a s**t about the laws and open season or closed. The only way to punish these poachers is to catch them and bring to justice and not punishing all the 17000 maltese hunters. CABS say the majority of the hunters shoot protected birds but I say a dozen or two incidents from 17000 hunters for sure its not the majority but the absolute minority.

A.Farrugia

Sep 24th 2008, 10:02

@MMB
Although I agree with you about the lampuka and hence I am not carniverous anymore and also agree that we do have a very HUGE problem with fish stocks, but because fish are hidden below the water most people are silly enough not to understand this.

However I must point out that throughout history of mankind (homosapies and maybe even before that) people attributed different (unfair) value to different animals. In this case birds are not at the bottom of the list as they used to be. One can easily however find other examples, like it is not acceptable to poach for Elephants, giraffes, dogs, cats etc.. in our society (although in some, far east, it is). Whales are also becoming an issue, save for Japan it seems.
You have to accept that birds in Europe and now in Malta are soon toping the list of protected species. Its a fact, I don necessarily agree with one species over the other, but that is how life goes. Take roaches as an example, many people just stamp their feet on them. But then there is an evironmental aspect to your "sport" which is an issue as well !

Andrew Gatt

Sep 24th 2008, 09:58

Here we go again. Bleeeeehhh! Bleeeeeehhh! Baaaaaaa! by the ban-hunting-now knowitalls. Sheep climbing on the bandwagon 'cos it's there! Democracy thrown out of the window, couch potato reasoning by couch potatoes, incredibly stupid arguments and endless outrage at all hunters in general.

WAKE UP PEOPLE. Most of these atrocities are happening WHEN THE SEASON IS ALREADY CLOSED and when most hunters (including yours truly!) are fuming at home! The poachers? Having a GREAT time out there on their own.

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Sep 24th 2008, 09:43

@A Bonanno

You ask

* If hunters argue that they have a right to kill a bird, don't I have the same right to see it fly?
* If birds are a COMMON RESOURCE (ie. it is owned by NO individual, but owned collectively) how is it that that anyone can claim OWNERSHIP on it?
* Who gave the right to anyone to take something which is also mine and others'?

Very simple answer. Just think about it after the next lampuka you eat.

I suppose you have heard about all the illegal fishing going on around our islands. It seems only bird are cause for concern anyhring else seems 'no problem"

n. franks

Sep 24th 2008, 09:40

@Mr Oatman

Democracy is not about the Many bullying the Few. The interests of minorities should be made allowances for in order for everyone to co-exist peacefully.
What would happen if you were part of the minority, Mr Oatman?

Steve Rogers

Sep 24th 2008, 09:39

@J Farrugia. According to you if our youth will act that way, then the Maltese are heartless, spiteful, law-breaking anarchists with no fear what so ever of God and could not care less the consequences of our actions just to satisfy our petty selfish wants.

This is not a question of foreign interference but of morality. Let's also not forget that our economy depends on these "foreigners".

I feel your comments are due to a colonial inferiority complex and not out of common sense and hence clouding your judgement of the true issue at hand

Mario De Bono

Sep 24th 2008, 09:33

JUST BAN HUNTING UTTERLY

A Bonanno

Sep 24th 2008, 09:17

I would like to take the opportunity to ask anyone to enlighten me about a simple question I have....

* If hunters argue that they have a right to kill a bird, don't I have the same right to see it fly?
* If birds are a COMMON RESOURCE (ie. it is owned by NO individual, but owned collectively) how is it that that anyone can claim OWNERSHIP on it?
* Who gave the right to anyone to take something which is also mine and others'?

Maybe someone could provide me with a justified answer (no rhetoric please)
PS.. By the way, I'm not a member of birdlife / birdlie / (or whatever names the hunters are giving to this orgainsation) ... just a common citizen! ... but maybe with the same basic rights like anyone else.

I think it's a simple question - The bird is not yours, neither mine. So, is it a case of who has the power (arms) gets it? Have I got the right to take something which is not mine?

Steve Rogers

Sep 24th 2008, 09:05

@ A. Mifsud. I may be wrong but I believe you are a lawyer and hence should appreciate and understand how laws work as well as how government institutions work. The many should not suffer because of the few. This could mean that one bad hunter should not spoil it for the rest. Likewise the hunting lobby should not spoil it for the rest of the country.

The majority of the population do not want hunting and as a democracy the Government has a duty to listen to the majority.

In regards to the "indhil barrani", well the writing is on the wall. Eventually the road the EU is taking is towards a federal superstate wherein Brussels will dictate to the Maltese what is in the greater good of the majority of Europeans. We married the EU and ironically Divorce is not legal!

J Farrugia

Sep 24th 2008, 09:04

Continue with this theme: banning hunting and you will see illegal hunting more than ever. Even youngsters will go out to shoot at anything that flies, just to spite these 'do-gooders', because they are doing nothing positive by clamering for the total ban on hunting. The more one shouts against hunting the more illegal hunting there will be. keep it coming friends. The more foreign interference we have the more illegalities and atrocities will occur.

Antony Caruana

Sep 24th 2008, 08:55

I belive that the true honest and dedicated legal hunters are in the minorty and are too scared to stand up to the bullying cowards , if the police and the goverment stand by and do nothing why should they. The only decent thing to do is ban hunting altogther and stop bringing shame on our islands and allow free passage to all birds and hope god forgives us all for killing his great creations, for while we stand here and do nothing we are all too blame.

Anthony A. Mifsud

Sep 24th 2008, 08:42

@bertu cassar
Dear Mr.cassar, I happen to be a hunter, and I will never dream or mistakenly shoot a Black Stork or any protected bird, but I ask were are the ALE? do we need people like you to instigate what the Govt should do?
We have enough" Indhiell min barra " pleas leave us in peace.

That shooting could have been any thing.

Toni

ghaber

Sep 24th 2008, 08:38

Sickening....What is this Govenment waiting for? This is insane, Its a daily slaughter of birds right on our islands... For god sake close the season now. The law abiding hunters are few and if it needs to deprive these few to save rare species like this, then they should understand! THey cant be trusted so their is no other way then to abolish.

What has FKNK have to say now? what excuses now? Is this there SOCIAL and CULTURAL HERITAGE they talk about or its their way of doing CONSERVATION?

J Oatmon

Sep 24th 2008, 08:15

It is a simple concept -

1. The bird shooters often shoot protected birds that are illegal, and these actions bring Malta very bad publicity.

2. The Malta Tourism Authority (MTA) spends many millions of euros promoting Malta, to give Malta good publicity, to encourage tourists to visit Malta.

3. The government does not want to lose votes/power by upsetting any large group of people.

4. The non bird shooter group of people is larger than the bird. shooter group of people.

All the above indicate that the government must ban the bird shooters now (no ifs no buts), to increase tourist revenue for the general good of all the Maltese people.

With no bird killers there will be many more happy visitors, spending more euros in Malta.

The government will gain votes not lose them by this action.

Paul Barrett

Sep 24th 2008, 08:06

It is about time that the true honest and dedicated legal hunters started specifically to hunt down and hand in to the Police those people who cannot control themselves from shooting protected birds and are ruining the reputation of legal hunters.
As in the saying "set a thief to catch a thief", "set a hunter to catch a hunter".

Bertu Cassar

Sep 24th 2008, 07:56

I am sorry but for once I do not agree with Dr Gonzi. It is not the time for investigations, it is already too late.....

Stop the current hunting season and call for an emergency referendum on hunting.