Church 'will not interfere in decisions which have to be taken by the State' - Archbishop
Archbishop Paul Cremona this morning stressed that although the Church had a right to express its opinion and teach about values, it did not want to be part of actual decisions taken by Parliament or through a referendum.
In his Independence Day homily during the Independence Day Mass at St John’s Co-Cathedral, the Archbishop said it would be a loss for society to have just one belief or ideology.
The Church, he said, could not be kept from placing the values coming out of its beliefs for the consideration of society. The Church believed these values came from God so were fundamental and eternal.
And the more the Church spread its beliefs, the Archbishop said, the more the decisions taken would be based on real choice.
However, the Church as an institution did not have any ambition to involve itself in the decision making process.
At this point, it was those who were taking decisions according to their conscience and beliefs, who decided what was the common good.
It was only when religion tried to directly hinder this process that it could be accused of interfering with the state. But the Church, Mgr Cremona stressed, did not want to be involved in the actual decisions taken by the state and Parliament.
Mgr Cremona said that the Church always wanted to be close to the state in its social work, in which it was a pioneer. Now that the country had a welfare state, there had to be cooperation between the state and the church.
He said that the Church rejoiced when society helped it rediscover values which were hidden by cultural traditions, such as the environment, equality between men and women and fundamental human rights. These helped it return to the basis of its beliefs and it wanted to work closely with NGOs who worked to create a conscience about them.
In a direct address to the President, the Archbishop said that the church wanted to renew its loyalty to the country’s leaders.
Official Indepedence Day celebrations continue at noon when flowers will be placed at the foot of the Independence Monument in Floriana.
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Dr Francis Saliba
Sep 21st 2008, 19:53
@David Wain
I agree that there are "bible thumping" fanatics who could be just as objectionable as "anti-clerical" fanatics. My criticism is directed at those blinkered anti-clerical fanatics who make it a mission in life to excoriate unjustly our archbishop when he conscientiously carries out his duty, as expected by the faithful, even when he is clarifying that the Church "will not interfere in decisions taken by the State" in order to rebut what the anticlericals have been alleging gratuitously and persist in doing even after the Archbishop's denial.
Please permit me to use my own brains and come to my own different conclusion that there is no inconsistency between what our Archbishop is saying now and what he said on September 8 . The Catholic community and its pastor are fully entitled to perceive danger in the kind of "secularism" that characterises itself in unremitting hostility to anything religious.
Of course others are entitled to hold a different opinion. What they are not entitled to do is the impugn the honesty and credibility of the Archbishop and those who want to listen to him.
David Wain
Sep 21st 2008, 18:46
Dr. Saliba / Joe Tabone-Adami, just as there might be what you would call an anti-clerical faction, one could also say that there are what many would call bible-thumping fanatics. Both extremes are regrettable.
@ Joe Tabone-Adami, if you want to have a look at arrogant, vitriolic statements, just have a look at your own posting of yesterday to Albert Gauci's letter.
@ Francis Saliba, yes the Archbishop has today spelt out that the church will not interfere with decisions taken by the state. However I still cannot reconcile it with his notorious homily of the 8th, preaching about the evils of the secularism he now seems to have accepted. I also cannot reconcile today's homily with Bishop Cauchi's article a couple of weeks later speaking about an objective "common good" to which everyone must subscribe, and from which nobody should derogate.
Everyone has beliefs, but it is also good for one to have a mind of his own!
l Galea
Sep 21st 2008, 18:03
@Andrew Cassar
The only ones profiteering from the situation are their traffickers.
The solution is that if all ILLEGAL immigrants are repatriated, then the word will spread around like wildfire and they will do their utmost not to come here.
Problem solved.
a.cassar
Sep 21st 2008, 17:27
"the Archbishop said it would be a loss for society to have just one belief or ideology"
Is the archbishop sensing something in the air? perhaps the Imam's gift a few weeks ago has sent a message.
Dr Francis Saliba
Sep 21st 2008, 17:05
There is no limit to the disgusting efforts of a stubborn anti-clerical faction in Malta to denigrate the whole Catholic Church in Malta from archbishop down to its humblest members!
For weeks they have been distorting what was actually being said and written and howling in protest against their own fantastical distortions which they falsely attributed to a fundamentalist church that, according to them, was plotting to impose a theocratic state and to return to the days of the inquisition!
In his latest pronouncement our Archbishop has spelt out in clear and simple language that the church will not interfere in decisions taken by the state. Such a clear cut declaration would have reassured any reasonable person who was not beyond redemption. But some people choose never to be satisfied. They find it impossible to distort his simple clear message but in sheer desperation they try to impugn his honesty and credibility!
Edwin Formosa
Sep 21st 2008, 17:04
Someone said: 'Denmark, Norway and Sweden rank amongst the happiest, safest and richest countries in Europe and the world. At the same time they have the highest percentage of atheists and agnostics,'.......and suicides....
Joe Tabone-Adami
Sep 21st 2008, 17:04
I would say that some of the self-appointed 'sages' who have submitted vitriolic comments of sorts till now have neither heard Mgr Cremona's homily nor even read a complete transcript yet. It would appear that here 'dictum de dicto' has sufficed for pronouncing judgement. This should not be the case, even in much lighter matters. Still less in an authoritative exposition of the parallel roles of Church and State - each a perfect society in its own sphere.
Andrew Cassar
Sep 21st 2008, 16:57
@Edwin Formosa
Your line of thought boggles my mind. How can you accuse people who follow Christ and the church's teaching to be anti-catholic? The catholic religion teaches tolerance and compassion, yet you accuse anyone who understands or feels compassion for illegal immigrants as somehow betraying his catholic heritage. You are the one throwing away our values.
@Charles Sammut
You are right...cardinal Ratzinger doesn't want us to renounce our culture. Our Christian European culture means tolerance, compassion, human rights, liberty and democracy. Autocracy, torture, abuse, lack of value of life, lack of civil liberties.....that's the kind of culture he was warning us about...and not a black african in dreadlocks banging a drum sort of culture!!
@Stephen Farrugia
No one supports illegality. It's like accusing people helping and understanding drug addicts and prostitues as supporting illegalities. Illegal immigrants are victims of this situation, just as we maltese are. Only the ones profiting from all this are "in favour" of this situation. Wanting, trying and looking for a solution is everyone's duty....church, state, and all concerned
Edwin Formosa
Sep 21st 2008, 16:26
@A.Daley: "the impact of true democracy, that Mintoff preached since 1948." ....ZINN !!
Guze Xerri
Sep 21st 2008, 16:23
"The church will not interfere in the decisions taken by the state."
if you believe that, then I have some magic crystals to sell to you.
l Galea
Sep 21st 2008, 16:00
@Stephen Farrugia
Agree with you. Whoever has defended the arrival of illegal immigrants in my country, and it includes those who have overstayed their visas, has long since lost their credibility with me and with those who want to put a stop to the situation.
Funny how things have changed from the 1950's and 60's.
I hope that this volte-face by the Church is not because of the MLP volte-face to a pro-eu party without the consent of its supporters.
Ethelbert Schembri
Sep 21st 2008, 15:59
The church has already prejudiced the whole discussion by earlier addresses.
We need to start discussions that focus on the real needs and problems of our society and not be influenced by the need for preservation of some particular group or institution .
It is time to update and change , we must all wake up and do it with an open mind !!
Andrew Sciberras
Sep 21st 2008, 15:25
In my honest opinion it is misguided thought by stating that secularists or liberals are tantamount or synonymous to being anti-catholic. I do consider myself as being in the secularist/liberal category but I have every respect for the Catholic faith and neither do I believe that the Church should be stripped of its right to public participation. Quite the contrary in fact. The difference lies in the fact that I have equal respect for others, although a minority, who hold different faiths or don't have any faith in particular and these should not be discriminated against. I tend to view, and I think I'm not alone, religion as a personal life choice thus I do not believe that the Church should be a dominating social institution with vested legal powers to shape and control the social order. Unfortunately this is not the way things are in Malta and I shall remain skeptical on the Church's statement especially due to the fact that it clearly contrasts with what it said just 2 weeks ago. I will always advocate the freedom of religion but I do not think that this makes me anti-catholic.
David Bailey
Sep 21st 2008, 14:07
Denmark, Norway and Sweden rank amongst the happiest, safest and richest countries in Europe and the world. At the same time they have the highest percentage of atheists and agnostics (anywhere from 40% to 80%). You don't need Catholic (or any religious) values for a successfull society. If nothing history has proved that nothing good comes out when religion interferes with politics (the crusades, the inquisition, suppression of science.. even in our own country as recent as the 1960s!). Today the biggest threats to global peace come from religiously fundemantalist nations such as Iran. There's no denying that secularism works.
g.sinagra
Sep 21st 2008, 13:50
Had Sir Michael Gonzi is still about,Mons.Paul Cremona would have been interdicted,on such a statment.
Stephen Farrugia
Sep 21st 2008, 13:44
@ E Formosa
Who's fault is it? Do we have to bow to all the abuse? The church lost its credibility with immigration. It causes so much damage that people will not stay quite, now.
A Daley
Sep 21st 2008, 13:42
Another proof of the impact of true democracy, that Mintoff preached since 1948.
Mela ma hemmx krucjati, u pellegrinaggi kontra l-gvern minhabba d-divorzju!
Kif imbidlu n-nies!
Charles Sammut
Sep 21st 2008, 13:29
@ Andrew Azzopardi
It was unhear of even 15 years ago that a Bishop says "it would be a loss for society to have just one belief or ideology". Great to hear Mgr Cremona who seems to be a 'down-to-earth' bishop the church finally needed.
Mgr Cremona never misses an opportunity to extoll the benefits of immigration so now he has no choice but to dig himself deeper and exalt multiculturalism. In fact he tells us that it would be our "loss not to have multiple beliefs and ideologies."
Perhaps Mgr Cremona has not read a book by a certain Joseph Ratzinger entitled "Values in a Time of Upheavals," in which the author writes ''The ever more passionately demanded multiculturalism is often above all a renunciation of what is one's own, a fleeing from what is one's own." Which in plain laguage translates into "a betrayal of one's own culture."
Strangely enough this J. Ratzinger later became Pope Benedict XVI. I am convinced that he knew what he was on about.
Edwin Formosa
Sep 21st 2008, 13:23
Malta is a barren rock without any resources. Yet it is a nation with its identity, history, culture,language...All this because our ancestors unanimously held to values which clever ones in our generation are throwing away. Our past is glorious, our future might be modern, secular,progressive...but surely different if our anticatholic maltese hav e their way.
Stephen Farrugia
Sep 21st 2008, 13:18
@ C Sammut
If you are the charles I know, I am not surprised that you come up with such a good post.
Anyone who is supporting immigration has lost his credibility. It is hard to even believe that a few people even try to show a form of support for illegality. What is more surprising is how they can support illegality openly, without being arrested for the crime committed.
Charles Sammuit
Sep 21st 2008, 13:06
"equality between men and women"
Is Mgr Cremona serious?
It is doubtful whether there is a more male dominated, female excluding organisation than the Catholic Church.
No wonder people are voting with their feet and only going to church for their funerals!
Andrew Azzopardi
Sep 21st 2008, 12:49
I think many people lose a chance to remain silent...
Charles Sammut
Sep 21st 2008, 12:41
"it did not want to be part of actual decisions taken by Parliament or through a referendum."
"However, the Church as an institution did not have any ambition to involve itself in the decision making process."
How magnanimous of His Excellency. Surely he did not expect it to be otherwise, did he?
"At this point, it was those who were taking decisions according to their conscience and beliefs, who decided what was the common good."
With a president who declares beforehand that he will not approve any legislation which goes against his Catholic tenets, Mgr. Cremona's peace of mind is assured. So much for "decisions based on real choice."
"The Church believed these values came from God so were fundamental and eternal." That's what they used to tell those about to be purified by burning at the stake. Things have not changed much, the modus operandi is more subtle nowadays.
This speech is so riddled with pretentions and contradictions as to make it irrelevant. Some people have a knack of missing opportunites to be silent.
Andrew Azzopardi
Sep 21st 2008, 12:33
It was unhear of even 15 years ago that a Bishop says "it would be a loss for society to have just one belief or ideology". Great to hear Mgr Cremona who seems to be a 'down-to-earth' bishop the church finally needed.
John Zammit (and many others?) seem to have lost trust in bishops. The Church has made many many mistakes int the past and has hurt many people by their actions (and their failure to act). My sympathy goes to the many of us who have suffered such experiences, however it is encouraging to hear the Bishop talk about the role of the state and the distinct role of the church. Furthermore the Bishop was 'spot on' when he mentioned the lessons society has thought the church... We can teach the church to be more human and less of an institution - while God through the church can teach us to be more respectful (in our comments JZ?) and inclusive (in our thoughts SF?).
Thumbs up to MGR Cremona!
Andrew Sciberras
Sep 21st 2008, 12:04
On the 8th of September, the Bishops announced that they had declared war on the 'ideology of secularism'. Just two weeks later they are trying to paint a different picture. In any case, the Church should realize that the society which it boastfully pioneered is not all of the same flock and some, though they may be a minority, have every right to hold beliefs which are not in conformity with its Catholic values. If the concept of religion is not free and that it is imposed on its people through the Constitution, as is in fact the case, than we have yet a long way to go to become really democratic. Is it such an evil to state that adopting religion should be a matter of free and personal choice - a fundamental human right to hold or not hold a faith? I think in Malta it is still considered as 'evil' or as a 'social disease' but maybe in the distant future and in generations to come, society will help the Church realize this fact as well.
Paul Xuereb
Sep 21st 2008, 11:55
Irrespective of whether we agree or not with what the Archbishop - or for that matter others - says or say - let's try to be more respectful and charitable in our comments. Expressing one's beliefs and opinions is healthy and should be encouraged, but surely there are ways and ways of how we go about it.
Dr. John Zammit
Sep 21st 2008, 11:37
"Archbishop Paul Cremona this morning stressed that although the Church had a right to express its opinion and teach about values, it did not want to be part of actual decisions taken by Parliament or through a referendum."
Who is going to believe you?!? I do not trust bishops and clergy anymore. They are finished with me...and many others.
Stephen Farrugia
Sep 21st 2008, 11:33
Now that is strange and a surprise. I think they understood that they overstepped with what they said on the 8th Sep 09 at St John.
Still, they got the PM on their side, pushing their immigration agenda, so they have nothing to worry about. The church is the state and they forgot that they had taken control.
Life goes on for them, without your rights.