Voluntary guardians of hunting laws

Kenneth Cassar

Sep 20th 2008, 19:14

@ Robert Callus:

I know you're not bothered by the name. What I intended to be a simple pointing out of a small error in the name, ended up with silly arguments on German dictionaries and the meaning of German words.

Kenneth Cassar

Sep 20th 2008, 17:28

@ Sylvana Zarb Darmanin & Mark Mifsud Bonnici regarding what CABS stands for:

The truth is vindicated: http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20080920/local/cabs-requests-hunting-ban-as-hundreds-of-protected-birds-are-shot

Robert Callus

Sep 20th 2008, 17:26

@Kenneth Cassar
To be honest I'm not really bothered about the name. What DOES bother me is the fact is that members of FKNK want to impose their position by bullying their way through.

THey lost their political ticket since no one really cares about the hunter's vote and are implying 'trouble' as well as offending legitimate movements of doing what they usually do

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Sep 20th 2008, 13:53

Mr. R. Muscat B, you seem to enjoy dropping the second surnames. Unlike you, I do not mind showing who I really am. You seem to drop yours to avoid identity!

I am sorry to say that you are ill-informed regarding hunting laws. The ban after 3.00 p.m. was in no way imposed by the EU. So please, inform yourself well before commenting.

That is the problem with the anti-hunting lobby - IMPOSING PASTIMES ON OTHERS!! Sorry, but you must realise that hunters are free to choose hunting as their pastime, I am free to enjoy commenting online, etc. The minute I lose my right of indepence, beware - because you will lose yours, as well!

As you are well aware, I am in a position to teach YOU crochet, lace and knitting. BUT I enjoy doing these when I feel like it and NOT when you IMPOSE it. Maybe you might wish to start crocheting instead of sailing!! It is your FREE CHOICE!

R Muscat

Sep 20th 2008, 10:47

@ Sylvana Zarb
Thanks to the EU more stringent laws have been drafted to curb hunting, To name a few no spring hunting, restrictions on trapping, no hunting after 3pm ect ect.
If you do not like it may I suggest that you change past time, maybe you should consider taking up crochet it is less harmfull to the environment and there are no EU laws curbing crochet in th countryside!!

Kenneth Cassar

Sep 20th 2008, 10:33

@ Richard Cachia Zammit:

Yes, its sad that some people find pleasure in killing, slaughtering or murdering sentient animals.

Richard Cachia Zammit

Sep 20th 2008, 10:18

@Kenneth Cassar & Mark Mifsud Bonnici
I don't know what the name of CABS really means but I know for sure that yesterday Friday 19/09/08, there was a SLAUGHTER of birds of prey all over the island and in front of everyone including the police, foreigners and locals alike.

Kenneth Cassar

Sep 20th 2008, 09:37

@ Mark Mifsud Bonnici.

By the way, Robert Callus probably would not agree with you. Robert Callus probably took the name from a recent report in The Times, where they made the same mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. What's silly is to persist in the mistake knowing it is so.

Kenneth Cassar

Sep 20th 2008, 09:36

@ Mark Mifsud Bonnici:

If the English name of CABS is "Committee Against Bird Murder", why do you keep referring to them as CABS and not CABM? People will think you don't know how to spell.

Kenneth Cassar

Sep 20th 2008, 09:34

@ Sylvana Zarb Darmanin:

I've actually checked the spelling of "murder" and "slaughter" in the dictionary, and guess what? "murder" is spelt m-u-r-d-e-r, and "slaughter" is spelt s-l-a-u-g-h-t-e-r.

However, to please the illiterates, I will start spelling "murder" s-u-r-d-e-r and "slaughter" m-l-a-u-g-h-t-e-r .

Robert Callus

Sep 20th 2008, 01:21

All this talk about 'roaming' in our countryside is ridiculous. Hunters do exactly the same things except that they have guns, as if this will make it more legitimate.

Also, these roaming spies are not a menace to any law abiding citizen. However, there were many law abiding citizens who wanted to enjoy our countryside (roaming?) and were harassed by hunters.

dennis agius

Sep 20th 2008, 00:17

who is this Lino Farrugia? is this the same person that some time ago was found guilty for helping a tapper, trap birds illegally in gozo? is this the same man who interfired with the police orders? and was fined some euro 300 or more? no wonder trappers and hunters are law breakers! it is supposed to be closed season from the 15th to the 30th September from 3pm till dawn. is this true Mr Farrugia? so how come today at Ghaxaq, in the vicinity of St Mary Fireworks Factory shooting on buzzards kept going till very late in the evening! so no wonder he is against the INDHIL BARRANI! do you remember this law late in the 70's and the begining of the 80's?

Richard Cachia Zammit

Sep 19th 2008, 21:34

@steve Busuttil
Errrr.....are your hunter friends in the UK poachers by any chance? Both the Turtle Dove and the Quail are in the UK red list so they are protected as far as I know. Apart from that, they are trans-saharan migrants so they won't be there in winter as they would have migrated south of the Sahara, unless your poacher friends shot them in summer and kept them in the freezer for you to enjoy.

Richard Cachia Zammit

Sep 19th 2008, 21:22

@Andrew Gatt
If, according to you, that was the only item of truth, you were really quick to use it to your advantage. Birdlife could have easily left that out of the report and nobody would have noticed, but if that was how things went, that is what they report….as always. As for agitation and misinformation, I think FKNK gets first price. Remember Lino Farrugia’s speech about mercenaries, spies and trespassers. Cabs and the Raptor camp participants have been here for almost a week now and whilst various wildlife crimes have been reported, recorded, filmed etc, I haven’t heard anything about trespassing.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Sep 19th 2008, 20:36

Now that you have The Concise Oxford Dictionary, you can always check it out, Mr. Cassar!!

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Sep 19th 2008, 18:39

Kenneth Cassar

it would have saved you some hassle had you accepted what I said in the first place.

1) you were wrong
2) "Vogelmord" means bird murder
3) David Conlin intentionally translated it to slaughter to make it sound more gory

Also the translated meaning is "Commitee for bird murder" whether you like it or not.

Robert Callus the write of this letter seems to agree with my explanation. HE might wish to comment too.

Admitting you are wrong seems hard to accept, could this be the animal in you!!

And by the way murder is spelt with an M

CABS have a way of appealing to people's seniments. did you know the injured eagle found in Malta was named SIGMAR after Germany’s environmental minister for very obvious reasons.

Joseph Galea

Sep 19th 2008, 18:21

The postings here have really degenerated into name calling.
The main question is that there is illegal hunting going on. This is a documented fact.
Why the hunters federation seems so reluctant to bring these (few or many) people, presumably also its members, in line is incomprehensible. If these sad individuals are permanently stopped from shooting at and killing protected species, the problem will disappear. If the federation, by its stance and attacks on anyone who disagrees with it, continues to 'appear' to defend these people, the name calling will continue ad nauseam.

Kenneth Cassar

Sep 19th 2008, 17:34

@ Chris Galea:

OK...I'll quit being a "spoil sport". Hey, everyone. From now on, Murder is spelt S-U-R-D-E-R.

Chris Galea

Sep 19th 2008, 17:08

@E Azzopardi
"A barrage of an outburst against a referendum. Why is that?" of coarse a barrage of outburst,so if I don't agree or don't like something we make a referendum to see if it can be continued praticed or whatever,makes no sense at all.
Regarding golf and tennis you can play it yourself if it gives that much of a kick,I'd definately stick to hunting !!!

Andrew Gatt

Sep 19th 2008, 16:44

@ Richard Cachia Zammit and Antoine Vella (Balzan)......you mean one item of truth in a warehouse of lies, don't you? It's rather difficult for Birdlife to get this one wrong, given that hunters and trappers were present! But no words in my mouth, please.....I reiterate that Birdlife has done a U-turn on Spring Hunting (they are ON RECORD and I will post their Press Release if anyone wants to see it), Birdlife has exaggerated and lied, Birdlife has agitated and misinformed. It will take a lot more than the odd snippet of truth to change my mind, I'm afraid.

E. Azzopardi

Sep 19th 2008, 16:18

To all those who answered me.
Being a mature person I respect the hunters' opinion but please I expect you to respect mine.
I thought so. A barrage of an outburst against a referendum. Why is that??
Having minsters,. politicians, doctors, etc as hunters does not make it any better
Golf etc is a sports. Hunting is not whatever it is said. With golf , tennis etc you are not doing any harm to anybody or anything else except hitting balls unless you hit them so high that you hit a innocent flying bird!!!!
If I wish to emigrate I have all the possibilities but probably by that time we shall have no more hunting in Malta. And who said hunting is the second most popular '' sports''? Where do you get all this rubbish from?
You can't even reason things out here or else they start offending you.. So much for maturity.

Antoine Vella (Balzan)

Sep 19th 2008, 15:50

Andrew Gatt
Your quotation from the BirdLife Raptor Camp report shows that BirdLife members are not inimical to all hunters and trappers. They can and do acknowledge hunters/trappers who are civil and respect the law.

Your quote confirms that BirdLife does not speak out against hunters indiscriminately and this means that its statements exposing and condemning illegal hunting are genuine and not made up, as many hunters allege.

Sylvana Zarb Darmanin

Sep 19th 2008, 15:39

Mr. R. Muscat B, being part of the EU does NOT make any difference as to whether visitors to our island may roam the countryside. Non-EU citizens have this same right as well. I cannot comprehend why you have brought the EU into the argument!! Sir, from your whole comment I can see that you wear political blinkers. Well then, let me remind you about the written promises by the Prime Minister, Minister and MIC - EU Representative Officials guaranteeing the continuance of hunting and trapping after EU accession. Those gullible enough, opted not to vote for Mr. L. Farrugia. THINGS HAVE CHANGE NOW!!

steve Busuttil

Sep 19th 2008, 15:28

The irony of all this is that this winter once again ill be tagging along on a couple of hunting trips in the UK.

I do not shoot personally, as i am not a hunter, but rest assured that there will be plenty of turtle dove and quail at dinner everyday for the length of my stay. These are the very same birds that Maltese are not allowed to hunt.

CABS should really be looking in their own backyard and they are sure to find work that needs to be done in the UK and Germany!!!!

R Muscat

Sep 19th 2008, 14:56

CABS please keep up the james bond spy work, great to see the hunters being hunted.
As for L Farrugia's ridiculous comments, get real we are in 2008 not George Orwells's 1984 it seems that you are stuck in a time warp "tal indhil barrani" gone are those days.
Like it or not we are now part of the EU and CABS have every right to roam the countryside as you and me and every other EU citizen.
Ironical how you tried and failed miserably to be elected as an MEP and do not understand the right of free movement in the EU!!!

Robert Caruana

Sep 19th 2008, 14:44

The examples quoted by Andrew Gatt clearly show that, given goodwill from both sides, co-existance, mutual respect and even co-operation is clearly possible between genuine law abiding hunters and environmentalists/ birdwatchers.

The hunters and trappers involved were clearly above the the short sighted, inflammatory comments given recently by a leading exponent of the FKNK. And it is also clear that these conservationists are concerned with illegal hunting and did not come here to spy or interfere with law abiding hunters.

As to those proposing referenda to stop hunting, this is simply not appropriate. Where minority rights are concerned the referendum is an inappropriate tool to decide matters. Traditional hunting is increasingly being recognised as a 'right'. Of course it is not a human right but is a traditional 'right' stemming from recognition of a long standing tradition that is an important part of the culture of certain groups within society . This is why hunting is legally recognised all over Europe.

Of course every right brings with it duties and obligations - hence the need for sustainability, regulation and law enforcement. These voluntary guardians of hunting laws should be more than welcome by everybody, including law abiding hunters

Anthony Formosa

Sep 19th 2008, 14:42

@ E.Azzopardi, Yes we take the challenge for a referendum against all sorts of killing, slaughter, murder of animals, and the referendum will be VEGITERIAN Yes or No, and I assure you that there will be ONE vote Yes from Kenneth Cassar only.


@Mr R Cuschieri, Yes some of the Police, Soldiers, Ministers, Doctors, Lawyers, Priests, Farmers, Businessmen, Bank Managers, etc etc are also hunters, and that makes us an island of cowboys except you. Moreover abroad there are Queens, Kings, Presidents etc who happens to be also hunters, and that makes the whole world cowboys, again except you.

Richard Cachia Zammit

Sep 19th 2008, 14:03

@Andrew Gatt
You posted this comment on 19/06/08 on this site “For your information, I'm a hunter myself - and proud of it!! I respect the law and respect others..........but I have lost all respect for Birdlies and Co who try and put collective blame on us all.”

So today it is Birdlife and not Birdlies and they seem to have gained your respect so much so that you’re quoting from their site to defend hunters. But just the same, thanks for showing everyone that Birdlife Malta reports facts as they are, unfortunately hunters accept only those that suits them.

Chris Galea

Sep 19th 2008, 13:56

@Kenneth Cassar
Come on Kenneth stop being a spoil sport and and beating around the bush !! just admit you're wrong and that's it !!

@Mark Mifsud Bonnici
Well done,he'll probably continue whining for the rest of the day !!!!

Chris Galea

Sep 19th 2008, 13:49

@ E Azzopardi,
"The country cannot afford this ","Hunting is not important for the country","it can do without hunting", What difference will it make to you if we hunt or not ? You're sounding as if Malta is the only place in the world where hunting takes place !! I understand you have abit of an anti-hunting zeal but I'm sorry Mr Azzopardi when all the other european countries will hold a referendum whether to ban it or not ( doubt it as UK alone, the shooting industry generates 1.7 billion sterling annually alone) we'll hold one too,but for now....you'll have to swallow it !!

George Curmi

Sep 19th 2008, 13:47

@ Mr. Mifsud-Bonnici

As is often the case, people who cannot present a valid argument to support their point of view - as in your case - often resort to attempts at deflecting legitimate criticism by deviating from the main point of the discussion onto tangential issues - in this case, splitting hairs on nomenclature. Are you trying to impress us with your knowledge? We are not impressed. You are not the only one with a German dictionary and with some knowledge of that language.

Why do you not address the real issues here? Like the implied threat by Lino Farrugia that "trouble was to be expected".

When threats are implied, and things happen it is no wonder that people begin to point fingers at those who made the threats. Please spare us your bulls**t and stay on topic

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Sep 19th 2008, 13:45

@EAzzopardi

So your dislike of hunting prompts you to call for a referendum.

You state "hunting is not important for the country' so anything not important for the country according to you is out.

Can you see any importance for the country in golf, soccer, hockey, horse racing/riding, yachting, cycling, birdwatching, swimming, hiking etc.

Certainly these are not important to the country but they are important to those that practice them. This is why hunting is important, since it is the practice of just under 10% of the population. The most popular pastime after soccer in Malta.

Calling for a referendum to ban hunting or any other pastime only goes to show that the only thing our country finds really unimportant is blabber mouths that waste the limited space on these islands.

Ever considered emigrating!

Kenneth Cassar

Sep 19th 2008, 13:35

@ Mark Mifsud Bonnici:

Is it so hard to admit you are wrong? If you read my previous comment (just below yours), you will find my conclusive explanation.

I don't care about the translation. I'm speaking about what CABS stands for.

Let me put it more simply:

CABS stands for Committee Against Bird Slaughter
CABM stands for Committee Against Bird Murder

Are you talking about CABS or CABM. If you are talking about CABM, then I humbly apologize, since we would be talking about different organizations.

As for the "murder" in CABS' German name, unless they are at least all vegetarians (which I assume they are not), I actually find it silly. If the killing of birds is murder, so would the killing of other animals.

So as you see, I'm not trying to defend CABS (or CABM or KGDV) here. I'm only stating the obvious. The "S" in CABS stands for "Slaughter".

E. Azzopardi

Sep 19th 2008, 13:27

This is all waste of time, energy and money. The country cannot afford this. There are so many items which are so important for us and our ( all of us now including hunters) children' future. Hunting is not important for the country , repeat for the country. It can do without hunting. In fact it can do better without hunting. It may be important for the minority. So let's get it over with and hold a referendum and see what happens. You do not have to be a genius to guess. I bet the minority is all for a referendum!!!!!

Robert Cuschieri

Sep 19th 2008, 13:13

Well done to all these volunteers who are trying to stop illegal hunting. The police hasn't managed to stop these cowboys for many years, I wonder why? Are they afraid or are they hunters themselves? Just asking.

The government hasn't stopped them either, for fear of loosing votes.

Now these people are finally doing something.
Mr. Farrugia of FKNK always says that "his" hunters do not hunt illegally. So what is he fearing from these organizations? Why is he so hostile if he has nothing to hide?

Well done again. Keep up the good work.

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Sep 19th 2008, 13:09

Kenneth Cassar

is it so hard to admit you are wrong.

The translation is intentional and I await DAVID CONLIN"S confirmation.

Kenneth Cassar

Sep 19th 2008, 12:56

@ Mark Mifsud Bonnici:

I know that the German word translates to "murder", but here we are speaking of an official name (the English version). If CABS (or KGDV) want to call themselves "Committee Against Bird SLAUGHTER", who are we to report them otherwise?

I personally don't believe that the FKNK are at all "conservationists", but since they call themselves so, I either refer to them as Federazzjoni Kaccaturi Nassaba u "Konservazzjonisti", or else refer them to FKNK.

Irrespective of the truth in what you say regarding the translation of the German word, the English name of CABS is Committee Against Bird Slaughter.

Andrew Gat

Sep 19th 2008, 12:39

Following are 2 comments taken from Raptor Camp 2008 Report, Birdlife Malta..... a very different picture to this politically-motivated post. ADZ Green Youth indeed! Desperately trying to score political points, eh?

"Our team at Girgenti were approached by Quail trappers who were friendly and invited our team to join them one morning while trapping to see how Quail trappers operate and get a feel for it. The two groups exchanged views and opinions before parting amicably."

"In the evening the Nadur Tower team was approached by a hunter who was very friendly and showed them pictures of himself hunting Wild Boar in the USA. He also explained how he only shot at what he could eat and could never understand people shooting at inedible birds, particularly Herons – which he believed stank as a result of living in marshes and eating frogs. He ended the meeting by giving our team a box of freshly picked tomatoes."

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Sep 19th 2008, 12:05

KENNETH CASSAR

JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, THE WORD SLAUGHTER IN GERMAN IS " METZELEI" OR TO SLAUGHTER ILLICITLY "SCHWARZSCHLACHTUNG"

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Sep 19th 2008, 11:52

Kenneth Cassar

Please check up the word vogelmord and you will find out that it actually means BIRD MURDER.

Maybe David Conlin might like to confirm what I am saying.

OR IF YOU STIL ARE NOT CONVENCED TRY THIS SITE
http://www.systran.co.uk/english-german-translation/german-translation.htm

Kenneth Cassar

Sep 19th 2008, 10:57

@ Mark Mifsud Bonnici:

If it stood for Committee Against Bird Murder, it would be CABM, not CABS.

I do not need a German dictionary to understand English, and to know that Murder does not start with an S.

MARK MIFSUD BONNICI

Sep 19th 2008, 10:50

Kenneth Cassar

WRONG AGAIN!!!

Actually the word Vogelmord in "KOMITEE GEGEN DEN VOGELMORD means BIRD MURDER and not slaughter.

The CABS official translator MR. David Conlin opted to translate this word to SLAUGHTER since its sounds more gory suitable to the cause.

Mr. Cassar it seems you do not have a german dictionary or any knowledge of the german language.

Oliver Cardona

Sep 19th 2008, 10:22

Does the trouble to be expected by Mr Farrugia include the vandalism on the Nadur Tower?

Kenneth Cassar

Sep 19th 2008, 09:49

Just a small correction: CABS stands for Committee Against Bird Slaughter (not Murder). CABS is an Environmentalist/Ornithologist organisation, and not an abolitionist animal rights organisation, despite the ridiculous protestations of the hunters' federation.