Tuesday, 9th September 2008 - 16:10CET
UPDATE 3: Woman dies during rescue as migrants' boat capsizes, infants ferried to hospital
One of the infants being taken into Mater Dei Hospital this afternoon. Photo by Darrin Zammit Lupi.
Two infants were ferried to Mater Dei Hospital in an AFM helicopter this afternoon after a migrants' boat capsized 60 miles south of Malta.
A woman believed to be their mother died moments before a German rescue helicopter arrived to also airlift her to Malta.
The migrants were plucked out of the water by the crew of patrol boat P52. The other members of the group - 20 men and seven women - are being brought to Malta.
The German Puma helicopter is in Malta for Frontex operations.
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Comments
Are you implying that the people living in Birzebbugia are alien cultures? Please, I beg of you, do not come to Birzebbugia! We too make our Ceaser salads with only three pieces of mozzarella, so you won't be able to share it with your friends. Or perhaps you have come to Birzebbugia before this and have been subject to racial discrimination entirely by mistake? Do write back. I await your response, typical of having a Sliema upbringing, which you are now blaming for not fitting in anywhere, instead of rightfully blaming it on your pitiful stances and ludicrous views.
"The cross-border movement of generally low-skilled, low-educated immigrants has depressed wages for unskilled native workers while helping keep consumer prices under control and inflating profits for employers." You should thus direct your ire towards the exploitative Maltese employers and not at the immigrants that they defraud of their just earnings.
Quote:
The cross-border movement of generally low-skilled, low-educated immigrants has depressed wages for unskilled native workers while helping keep consumer prices under control and inflating profits for employers.
Borjas estimates that workers lose $278 billion because of immigration, while employers gain $300 billion. “There's a huge redistribution away from workers to people who use immigrants,” says Borjas :Unquote
This is only one nightmare, the economic nightmare, that Malta is facing over the coming years. Maltese who employ illegal immigrants will continue to become wealthier at the cost of Maltese workers who belong to one of the job categories targeted by illegals such as cleaning, catering, farming, and construction.
When someone put their name on the line in defense of illegals, beware. There is big money to be had. This is only one reason why the Gonzi government is irresponsible for not deporting illegal immigrants. Dr Gonzi claims there is the “human” aspect to be taken into account, but the Prime Minister’s duty is to maintain equity among the citizenry rather than harbouring illegal immigrants.
Or, more accurately, a gigantic step forward into the past. The website photo showing you 'stand up' confirms that you were certainly around in the atrocious 80's.
Raymond, EU is all about the free movement of people, goods and capital. The concept of command economies died over one generation ago.
Boycott all employers that hire illegals.Boycott all grocery stores that hire illegals. Once you hit their pocket they will stop hiring them.
You're not exactly a free marketeer, are you? So much for your price setting in a free market. I think you need to buy a new economics primer - one with no missing pages, that is.
"What Maltese workers are actually faced with where immigrant workers are concerned - be they regular or irregular - is not 'cheap labour', but fully legitimate and fair competition ... "
Your argument would hold if you only said "regular". You said, instead, "regular or irregular".
Regular (as opposed to irregular) would mean that the Ministry for Labour would be able to maintain an economic balance between labour supply and demand.
Actually the remarks are perfectly legitimate and pertinent counter-comments to ill-concealed expressions of varying degrees of racial and/or political prejudice.
What Maltese workers are actually faced with where immigrant workers are concerned - be they regular or irregular - is not 'cheap labour', but fully legitimate and fair competition in the form of job dedication, willingness to learn new skills, work commitment, stricter observance of working hours, all leading to higher productivity and, yes, the simple appreciation of the fact that one has a job.
As to derogatory remarks about 'employers', the very vast majority of employers operate in strict observance of the law; and that is a scenario where productivity is the key factor, and not cheap labour.
'Cheap labour' presents a challenge only to those Maltese workers who choose to work, as they say, 'bla ktieb', that is, dodging NI and other tax payments and who, by their irresponsible choice are the very ones that sustain in business the few exploitative employers that exist.
All I see from you is patronising remarks addressed to a few, but nothing constructive or convincing.
@Raymond Sammut: thanks for putting a more technical view to the gist of my argument. A perfect example of things to come...
So why are your complaints directed only at the 'illegal' ones?
"It is exploitative employers and not the exploited who are lowering wages."
Employers do not "lower" wages. In fact, nobody does.
Wages fall if labour supply exceeds demand. It is fundamental economics theory.
In economic terms, wage is simply "price", the price of one man-hour, which is set freely by the market (the "hidden hand of the free market").
This is the reason why employers do not complain about illegal immigration, and the Maltese government is being grossly irresponsible towards Maltese workers. The Maltese government is deliberately denying Maltese workers fair competition which is their basic right.
My exact words that you quoted me from "The illegal immigrants landing by boats are not the only culprits. There are thousands more who entered Malta legally too."
So why do you play around with your answers? Still, the fact that what they do to sponge benfits whilst working illegally, is ok for you in your eyes, just because there were others doing it before them? I ask anybody who wants to check how these immigrants learn to adapt to the systems of their host country to visit Geneva. The Swiss are paying the price for being humane with illegal immigrants some years back. Go see for yourselves how this City has changed both in culture and in the demographics. Don't just go once mind you. Go frequently, over a span of years and you can feel, touch and hear the difference.
That phenomenon pre-exists the arrival of immigrants by boat or by air. Why blame the new arrivals for a system that was entrenched before they'd even heard of this place, let alone arrived here?
It is exploitative employers and not the exploited who are lowering wages.
M. Dingli: It is unlikely that the verification of facts in this case would be possible in the few days since it happened. That is all by the by. So far, all we know is that the children are alone. Orphaned or not, they are more deserving of compassion than demonisation.
Geir Nilsen: Racist and xenophobe were John Borg's words, not mine.
It's not a good idea to identify with Dennis Catania's position without finding out where that is first, and you'd have a hard time doing that seeing as he's all over the place.
There is no such thing as a pro-immigration lobby on this page, though there is support for the idea that since immigration is happening it has to be coped with, whether everyone here likes it or not.
Indeed, there is no shortage of gripes expressed on this board, but now how about coming up with some even remotely tangible solutions to the perceived origin of those gripes.
Stating the same thing for (let's say) 14 months as, I believe, I B Dingli claims to have done is as pointless as standing by the road-side holding up a placard at the entrance of a mid-town tunnel in some godforsaken hick town in the US of A.
Persons living in open centres who find work are automatically entitled to a work permit.
If it is a question of anyone working illegally, then your concern should be addressed to the Maltese employers who are by exploiting individuals who may have no other job option, defrauding the state by failing to pay NI dues, and evading income tax, are the real criminals.
You say "some cases are genuine and merit protection and care. Most are staged and merit nothing more than deportation." Here's a test case for your theory: if the case in this news report is 'staged', how and where should the infants be deported?
“What you don't realise is that thousands of well-educated Maltese from non-working-class backgrounds have been forced to live this way for decades. It's very unpleasant, but one becomes accustomed to it eventually.”
Your comment above clearly contradicts all your other accusing comments. Its funny how you condone anyone who is against the illegal immigrants when you yourself discriminate between well-educated Maltese from non-working-class backgrounds and a normal maybe not so educated Maltese from a working class.
Anyway you should know better than me that you can find a PASTAZ anywhere even if he is a well-educated Maltese from non-working-class backgrounds so I will end it here :)
The difference between you and me Daphne dear is that although I am from the south and not from Sliema, I don’t hate going anywhere in Malta and Gozo and it doesn’t effect me being around people from different maltese villages. I do though dislike individuals who think they are any better or different than me just because they happen to come from another ‘town’. I was always happy living in Birzebugia unfortunately I am not anymore. Maybe I should come and live in Sliema, be an addition to your alien culture and make you uncomfortable so that you know what it feels like. I just wonder how you would react if they opened an open centre in Sliema !!!
Firstly if they are walking outside a detention centre doesn’t mean that they are not illegal immigrants but it means that they have elapsed their stay in the centre and moved on to an open centre and I am sure that all of these arrivals are illegal immigrants otherwise they would have passports and visit our country on holiday and stay at a hotel and leave when their holiday is over and not living in the centers.
Secondly do you think I am scared to say that I dislike coloured people if I really did. Well you are totally wrong, I have coloured, Indian, Asian and Arab friends and if you read my earlier comments you would see that I am against all illegal immigrants entering my country no matter what race or culture. I am uncomfortable with illegal immigrants that are in my village imposing themselves and their culture upon me. Remember these are not EU citizens glorified with freedom of movement. These are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS entering my country ILLEGALLY and burdening all of us. That is the whole issue and nothing else......
Yes, that would be just dandy.
Get real, Denis. Bone up on the background to this situation.
Oh, I see. So that is how it works, John Borg, Marisa Darmanin, Michelle Dalli and others sharing their views express opinions; Corinne Vella and others expressing viewpoints similar to hers 'attack'.
Now, what was it that someone had said about people having a 'siege mentality'?
Oh, so how come I don't need to show my passport at Luqa Airport or Gardermoen Airport but Gary Neville has to coming from or to Manchester Airport (hint: Schengen)?
And you are supposed to be Malta's leading columnist (did my research unlike you)?
The above question should in fairness reflect grim realities and so should go on to read "...when you know that by your failing to do so your kids would face a life time of abuse, slavery, and an early death?"
and what would YOUR answer then be, JB?
This is what distinguishes these people from a good many of the locals. The former congregate there in the hope of being able to earn an honest crust, the latter congregate at their local DSS to rake off somebody else's hard earned honest crust.
I love it, I love it. That is what is so great about all you guys, sitting there for (let's say) 14 months, writing about INVASIONS of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and 'working to save OUR COUNTRY' and generally busying about in your crisis centres - your unsinkable sense of humour.
...and the point that I missed was??
Since you state that I have been 'pampering' my constructive comments 'loudly', the hearing difficulty seems to be at your end.
Or perhaps you might care to explain how one sets about 'pampering comments loudly' - just in case I may have been doing it all wrong.
Corinne is suggesting that the ones opposed to the mass-immigration are racists, xenophopics and afraid of losing their jobs. That is absolute nonsense. For starters, the ones that are commenting here are on average a lot more resourceful than the average Maltese. John Borg, Isobel Mcgonigle and I.M. Dingli will never compete with a Somali for the same job. The ones with good jobs, a good education and money are the ones that have the least to fear. House-cleaning for 4 Euros/hour in 10 years time? Quite realistic. The poor ones with no or little education however, oh they have it coming. I find it a paradox that I, as a Norwegian, seem to care more about what happens to Malta than a lot of Maltese themselves do.
@Joseph Vassallo: The more obvious explanation, and therefore probably the correct one, is that the woman who died was en route to meet her husband who is in Europe already. That's the way it works: the man goes first to prepare the way and the wife and children follow later. Maltese emigrants followed the same system in the past. It speaks volumes about your priorities that your first instinct is to DNA test the men on the boat so that they can't get away with 'lying' about their paternity. What sort of man would watch his wife die and his children flounder in the water with no emotion, just to hoodwink the Maltese government? My own reaction, based on the likelihood that this woman was trying to join her husband, is "Oh my God, now how on earth is he going to be traced and told that his wife is dead and his children are in a Maltese orphanage?"
With regards to the story at hand, please note that you are at fault regards one particular point, just for the sake of saying things as they are, or better as they have been reported.
The two infants are not orphaned; the article doesn’t mention that the dead lady was their mother (but just believed to be) so we better stick to the facts before jumping to conclusions. This is something you thought me so I would appreciate if you follow your same advice. I do believe that if it was their mother, The Times would have updated the story as they do normally.
This is not about kids who die between crossings, this is showing how much they don't care. Now tell me, would you even try to cross hundreds of miles to another country with your young infants? Don't you think that this is madness and irresponsible! Now if you tell me that they desperate, I tell you, why did they had kids the first place if they were in so much poverty!
Furthermore please, don't post a comment telling me, I do not need to teach you how to listen or something along these lines, because its getting boring now, the whole point here is that Malta is angry, it can't take anymore and this is a big full stop.
Brian Fenech
In any case, you might have some sympathy for two orphaned babies - even if you consider them to be a terrible drain on your taxes. There wasn't even a murmur about Clyde Puli attending the Olympics for 16 days (sponsored by your taxes)
I am also curious as to why so many women die before they arrive here. Are all steps being taken to ascertain that there is no foul play during the voyage? After all, it is well known that women and children are mere chattel belonging to their husband in most of Africa.
According to Unicef, more than 2 million girls/women have their genitals mutilated to ensure their subordinance,dependence and loyalty to their man.
Put aside the factual error inherent in that statement and take a closer look at what you have actually said: you define the comments made here by Michelle Dali, Raymond Sammut , Ivan Magro Dingli, Marisa Darmanin, Isobel McGonigle and Geir Nilsen as racist or xenophobic.
Now take a look at the context in which those comments were made.
The news story above is about two infants who were orphaned at sea and hospitalised after being rescued and yet most of the comments here bypass that matter altogether. I find that not only strange, but shocking. Why does my saying so make you feel the need to justify your 'right to an opinion and to our country'?
Read nigerian in court after hal far incident.
Hope he was smartly dressed when he tried to scam his social security payment.
Got the message yet?
I doubt it.
Why?
No. You missed the point.
Like you, I have grave concerns about the country we live in - it is a one in which people feel threated by infants and in which news of their rescue and hospitalisation is not greeted with sympathy and compassion but with horror and outrage. I don't imagine that is the self-identity you subscribe to and wish to protect. So you see, we have rather much more in common than you might think.
The latter course of action would still be, as you chose to put it, 'a crime'; what you proposed is the substitution of a number of small boats with a big one and also changes in the point of destination. And that suggestion puts you on a par with the organisers of these boat trips and also in favour of 'illegal immigration'.
If you think you are putting together some kind of a prank by calling me ‘U. R. Dingli’ ha ha ha ha …… I laughed my guts out!! That was really funny.
Anyway, I have put forward my opinion many times on these comment boards for the past (let’s say) 14 months. If you want to know my opinion just have a look at the various comments I have shared for everyone to see. It is not my problem if you deem them unfruitful when you boil them down, even though I always show my exact opinion straight and plain.
All the posts coming from your excellency, which I have seen on this particular comments board always start with a quote / unquote of another person’s opinion and you just try to ridicule that person’s opinion or question or whatever leading me to believe that you don’t have an opinion of your own. That was the simple reason why I put a straight forward question in your regards but as always you just opted to chicken out.
As to you, can we hear your constructive comments which you so loudly pamper about, please?
"The subsistence allowance paid to each individual is unlikely to finance the purchase of a 'branded t-shirt', let alone bikes and cars."
OK than where are they getting the money from ???? if you havent seen them around in cars and on bikes dont comment because I see them daily and some bikes have also been installed with a small motor.
"Is it not more likely that the individuals concerned have taken on a job, are earning money, have ceased to depend on state assistance, and so are actually paying taxes to the benefit of the population as a whole"
Whom are you trying to kid here as if they all work legally or through ETC. At Marsa and Hal Far where I happen to pass every morning for work they are picked up by maltese plasterers and builders etc and I am sure they work illegally.
You say: Simple, it is just like you [myself] said - "Illegal immigration is a crime on a large scale.."
I am very glad that you agree. I have never been able to get Corinne Vella to agree. That’s why she shunned my question, and you felt you had to come and answer it on her behalf, and so you did.
I now like to ask you to come and join us, and speak out against illegal immigration which is a crime on a large scale.
In regards to comments, yes I agree there are some nasty ones and as Denis brought my attention to it , I promise that these will be cleaned out, so don't worry.
Brian Fenech
Can you answer my questions first?
"Most will be slow moving traffic. " Now, I wonder WHY the drivers will slow down?
Quote from comment by Corinne Vella "Government provision of a ship to ferry people across the Mediterranean is legally impossible."
R. S. You asked CV "Why?"
Simple, it is just like you yourself said - "Illegal immigration is a crime on a large scale. ."
Like??
Simple. I face realities and deal with them in a responsible manner. The persons bellyaching about ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS do not ; they just bang on and on without putting forward any constructive comment.
But we have voices... Use them!!
So, I take it, your presence here in Malta is to do us a favour?
Is it not more likely that the individuals concerned have taken on a job, are earning money, have ceased to depend on state assistance, and so are actually paying taxes to the benefit of the population as a whole - including the many who take unemployment as their lifetime career and who are the real spongers on taxpayers money.
Ok Let me explain it better. Dont you realise that these so called 'msieken' are already our equal in my country at my expense and at the expense of other maltese citizens and dont forget they came here ILLEGALLY. they dont pay taxes, water or electricity bills. I invite you to read my other comments and than maybe you will understand how I am living as it is useless repeating here what I see in Birzebugia. Then again if you dont I wont even bother answering any of your comments but for sure you cannot judge me for how I feel, what my worries are, what I fear for my children and most of all how angry I am at the Government, EU, UN etc as no one takes any notice of us Maltese citizens. Government definately has not got an atom of guts to take a stand on this issue.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20080905/local/migrants-arrive-in-gozo
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20080825/local/man-charged-with-rape/
Please allow me to quote you on this:
" ... comments are degrading with curse words throughout it ... "
By "it" I understand the petition. My comment in this petition is perfectly formal, as most others are.
In regard to "eastern europeans" and other issues, everyone is free to initiate petitions directed at these issues if they feel strongly enough to do so.
I agree with Mr Catania that anonymous entries do not count, and if possible should be removed, or alternatively, a provision can be set to prevent them from being entered in the first place.
However, as I understand, the author can also reserve the right not to make the petitioner's name available to public viewing. The entry would still be valid so long as the author has the necessary details of the petitioner.
while we are at it, why dont we get another petition for all the eastern europeans that come here? a visit to 'gentlemen's' clubs, sliema or paceville/ st julians area will show you that they are in malta too....maybe they blend in a bit more than africans but they are still here illegally.
What about all the people that marry eastern europeans/africans for money? who in turn get everyone and their one here in this country... Are we going to go after those too?
ps Mr Catania - the first page alone has 8 anon signatures....
Thank You for your concern. Denis Catania
Yes I agree,the ilegal immigrants were immaculately dressed as they turned up in their B.M.Ws,Mercedes,to pick up their weekly social security handouts.
I should know, for the place I worked in the U.K (10 hours a day 6 days a week) overlooked the local benefits office.
Well Corrine Vella the substance of my comment is as I said to Mr Vella ,see if you still have the illegals on a pedestal in a few years time .
You dont have a clue what is on the horizon for Malta if the illegal immigrants continue to come at the present rate.
Remember there is strength in numbers and their numbers are increasing every day.
There is no need to discredit those who have signed either or both of these two petitions. Most views that have been expressed thus far are perfectly in order. It is true that some require moderation or deletion altogether. I have contacted the author directly in regard to this issue.
In my view, both petitions have been set up by the respective author for a just cause. They have only been active for the past few days. It is fair enough if you do not wish to sign.
If you are really going to present that petition, I suggest you spell check it and **** it before printing it out.
It was Gaddaffi that asked the Africans to come to Libya because he changed his position of being a leader of all Arabs, to a leader of all Africa. Now he should keep them and be their leader as he always wished.
There is a very simple answer to your question; basically this is the only means of two way communication with you. I'm not asking for your contact info or anything but since the subject developed in that direction (ok, I know out of subject) I raised the question. I appreciate your reply, I’ll wait for a more suitable story headline.
"Providing a ferry service is not legal because there is no provision for legal immigration."
Why there is no provision for legal immigration?
Your assumption about me is incorrect. I do know what it feels like to be uncomfortable in the place where I live and yes, I do know what it feels like to appear different from everyone else on the same bus. That is how I sometimes feel among people who are Maltese. It is not how I always feel among people who are not.
http://www.gopetition.com/online/21435.html
Given your experience with the courts here, it's clear that you feel that that treatment you received was unfair and I couldn't agree more. Equally, I think you would agree that that sort of behaviour is deplorable not because you are Scandinavian, but because you are human.
As to the rest of your comments about unfair taxation and housing rules, it appears that your objection is principally that you are subject to differing conditions to those enjoyed by the Maltese. There's much to be said about that, but why do so here when the news story is the death of a mother at sea and the rescue of her infant children?
According to international law these people if they are truly refugees should seek refuge in the country nearest their own. I never asked them to cross in little boats. All we do is pay taxes which a great deal of goes to support illigal immigrants.
If you throw a cigarette butt you get fined. We are being pushed about and becoming second, third class citizens in our own country. In the pecking order we the average Joe are even to make way to those who invade us.
I do not fear anyone believe me I am more than capable of taking care of myself. I fear though for my children and you cannot try and patronise me when you dont know what its like to go on a bus or go around your village and all you see is illegal immigrants. I mentioned the cars mobiles etc as it is surprising that these persons can afford all these 'luxuries' when they should be coming from a war torn country, or were persecuted and stripped of all their belongings. Funnily enough they even afford to buy cars now and pay insurance and licences, surely they are working instead some Maltese person or else where are they getting the money from. Do you know what it feels like to feel uncomfortable in your own village. I am sure that you dont as otherwise you wouldnt comment as you do. This is what has become our way of living - UNCOMFORTABLE. I am openly against any foreigner from anywhere around the world coming to my country illegaly and I am made to carry the burden. Does this make me a racist?
So I’m assuming that we are both on the same line of thought since we both have no problems whatsoever with the regular migrants having a work permit in hand.
As to the scenario which you have described, obviously the driver is at fault but unfortunately it seems they cannot be controlled. How many times did you end up stuck behind a truck because he didn’t have the decency to stay on the left rather than in the middle of the road in order to let the traffic by? They are hostile to fellow Maltese citizens so what do you expect from them when it comes to immigrants.
@ Corinne Vella
I just want to ask you a couple of questions which I kind of raised to myself, please do not embark on the usual petty talks (me included), ok? I think you are more informed on the subject than I am ….. Do the residents within the open centres by default have a work permit or not? If not can they apply for one?
So you think it is ok to reward the people who enter Malta illegally? And punish EU citizens who come to your country legally and make you wealthy? If you decided to move to Norway, you would have exactly the same rights as me. We would not try to milk you. I don't feel sorry for myself, because I am in a very fortunate position compared to most people, but I am nonetheless provoked by they way I am treated here.
Another example: I was punched in the face by a Maltese (unprovoked). I decided to write down the number of his car instead of beating him up (I was much bigger than him and was a power-lifter), went to St. Luke's to get an x-ray (paying 50 liri because I am a foreigner), and took him to court. I had to swear on the bible (I am not a catholic, and magistrate tried to humiliate me, even though I explained). They could have proceeded in English, but was in Maltese only. He got a 20 Euros fine despite x-ray and video evidence. The sun-glasses he broke when punching cost more than 200 Euros.
Go figure.
"Government provision of a ship to ferry people across the Mediterranean is legally impossible."
Why?
"The trouble with RS, and all of his ilk, is that they have no yet cottoned on to the realities involved."
Quite the contrary Mr. Vella. You failed to answer a straight forward and logical question because of the "realities involved" which you, for whatever reason, do not want to acknowledge.
And no. Illegal immigration is not here to stay. The Maltese people must never be subdued into believing and accepting such a statement. Illegal immigration is a crime on a large scale. It is here only because the Maltese government continues to fail in its obligation towards its own people.
Isobel McGonigle: I have read Michael A. Vella's comment too. What he says is that there is a marked contrast between the appearance and behaviour of immigrants and the impression held by people who post negative comments on this site. Your reply ignores the substance of his comment.
No I do not defend the actions of anyone who is involved in drugs, be it Maltese, Dutch, English, Russian, Nigerian or from outer space.
But when these Nigerians were charged with the importation of drugs, the comments in this forum were all general comments about how these irregular immigrants are taking over our
country and the usual comments. But funnily enough, when a european or an eastern european is charged with the same charges (of importing drugs etc). these comments are not found. Why?
As regards the easterern europeans working here all has a valid working permit, the same applies to refugees who can work legally here in Malta. I have nothing against eastern europeans working in Malta, but I also have nothing against refugees or others who can work legally here. I have come across eastern europeans and even sub-saharan refugees working in Malta and I have no cause to complain against any of them. What I deplore is seeing a Maltese refuse truck driver kicking a dark-skinned worker in the middle of the street because he could not keep with the drivers' speeding by running after him throwing garbage bags in the truck.
Raymond Sammut: Stephen Farrugia's comment about a ship sounds more like sarcarsm than sincerity, unless he is naive. Government provision of a ship to ferry people across the Mediterranean is legally impossible. Farrugia mentions people who care". They are unlikely to include those whose sole involvement is profit.
This is a story about the death of a woman and the bare survival of her two infant children, yet many of the comments here about the usual shock horror hysteria about 'them taking our jobs'
If any remark like this one is made, the next reaction is usually a barrage of nonsense about people who are 'in favour of illegal immigration', a useless and empty argument if ever there was one.
Where do you stand in all this because I haven't yet figured out your opinion on the matter? You seem to focus on approving or disapproving the other commentators within this comments board rather than sharing with us you beliefs, concerns, approval.
I'm asking not to criticise you but rather just to get a grasp of your opinion.
Could it be that these East Europeans have a valid work permit and thus they pay taxes apart from renting apartments in the process, etc etc etc..... could it be that at least we are getting something back into our economy? If you want examples you should go at Mater Dei Hospital and see for yourself. I used to work with these gentlemen for the past 5 years and never had problems with them. There were also persons from South Africa & Iraq working there with valid work permits and again paying all taxes and had no problem with them too.
By the way, are you defending the actions of the four Nigerians who tried to smuggle drugs in our country by any chance?
"MALTA IS SMALL ENOUGH AS IT IS." Not as small as the mentality and generosity of some of the locals, it seems.
Oh, for goddness sake, Dennis. Have we not seen enough examples of warped resaoning in these Comment sections. Presumably, if the plane taking you to USA had dropped out of the sky, your blood with be on the hands of the US population. Sorry, I forget, you were actually 'needed' in USA, so that changes everything.
"Government websites ambiguosly state that it is possible 'to become eligible' to acquire Maltese citizenship by naturalisation after 5 years of legal residence in Malta. In practice applications are only given a favourable consideration to persons who were born in Malta,have resided there for more than 18 years (6 more than Switzerland[2]), have a Maltese parent, or based on humanitarian grounds."
So I did get my facts wrong. It was not 16 years, but 18. And that is only for consideration, so even worse. And note that an ILLEGAL Somali immigrant have a much greater chance of aquiring a Maltese citizenship than I do.
The beef I have with this is that these precautions are obviously not implemented because you purely want to limit the influx of people coming to the island, because if that was the case you would just ban foreigners completely from buying, or let a set number each year do so (at the same price/cost). But no, you let us do it, makes it much more expensive for us. So this is about milking me for as much money as possible.
The trouble with RS, and all of his ilk, is that they have no yet cottoned on to the realities involved. These people are refugees originating from different parts of a failed continent and, whatever the origins of such failure, are entitled to help and support at a human level; but that aspect is evidently alien to the 'catholic, christian, saints' peopling Malta, as confirmed by the cynical suggestion to provision of a ship for the safe transfer of immigrants.
The ultimate solution depend on the level of support extended by wealthier, properly functioning, economies towards the promotion and establishment of democratic governments and viable economies in Africa. An interim solution could be the introduction of skill-based controlled immigration. In the meantime, illegal immigration is here to stay.
http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Malta/Buying-Guide
"Stamp duty for foreigners is the normal rate of 5% of selling price. For Maltese citizens buying a main residence, stamp duty is 3.5% for the first €116,468, the remaining balance is subject to the normal rate of 5%."
But of course, the website might just make this up for the fun of it. However, a swimming pool is a must if a foreigner wants be CONSIDERED to be able to rent out. I am Norwegian, and we are a member of EEC like Switzerland and Iceland, so it actually works out the same as EU. We have the same rights and we actually pay more to EU than other EU countries! The Norwegian government as gone through the back-door to EU, even though the Norwegian population in a referendum said no to joining the EU. My wife is Finnish, so EU-citizen.
And what about the VAT on weddings? Do you think it is ok that we, who pay 10 times more in tax (yes, also earning 10 times more) and are a MASSIVE income for you, don't get what you get? It does not happen in Scandinavia or Britain (lived there 5 years).
That's the way Europe is running these days. If you work hard, have a career and possibly get a PhD all you get is taxes and the scorn of everyone else who could not be asked to do the same.
You certainly won't get the sympathy of human rights activists. And it is their opinion which counts, everyone else is either a racist, a xenophobe or a moron.
You sound like someone on the ball, but your last statement at least is not true. I have read several comments on The Times in the past made by Maltese complaining about Romanians, for example.
The issues are illegal immigration, the absence of border control, and the Maltese government not doing anything to address people's concerns which are clearly justified and have nothing to do with what you are trying to imply in your second comment.
"What the majority of the Maltese population does not condone is the financial burden that these people represent and the fact that a foreign culture is imposing itself on our cherished Maltese way of life."
At last someone has spit it out. The thing that they are afraid of is that "a foreign culture is imposing itself on our cherished (sic) Maltese way of life."
And you all say you are not racists?
How come no-one comments on the vast numbers of East Europeans working in Malta? How come that these racist posts appear even if a Nigerian is detained at the airport coming in Malta as a regular tourist with drugs? He was not coming in Malta as an irregular but the comments here made it appear so. How come these type of comments does not appear when a European is detained bringing drugs in Malta?
You said you are Scandinavian but did not specify whether you come from an EU country or not. If you want to buy prioperty in Malta to be used as your residence and you are an EU citizen, you will pay stamp duty exactly as if you were a Maltese citizen. If you are not an EU citizen, you will only pay €1,747 more, as if a Maltese person is buying his second property. And no, it does not have to have a swimming pool. The only restriction is that an aprtment have to cost you more than €100,000 while a house have to cost you more than €175,000. But then, who can find property cheaper than that nowadays? And if you want to sell, you will be treated as a Maltese citizen and if you sell before 3 years you will pay capital gains tax.
If you pay tax ten times more than an average Maltese it means that you are earning ten times more than the average Maltese.
So where is the discrimination?
The Africans will be considered for a Maltese passport after 16 years, not 5 years which is only theory. So the Africans will be stuck here, and 16 years down the line most will have made African friends and live happily in their ghettoes. Muslims don't want to integrate anywhere in the world. Eventually there will be lots of no-go zones where the Maltese dare not enter.
Me and my wife (with a PhD) are a Scandinavian couple. It didn't cost Malta a thing to educate us through schools. We came to this country with a high education and lots of work-experience, so we pay tax from the first day on Maltese soil. We are therefore a great source of income. I personally pay about 10 times more tax than the average Maltese and spend all my money here, but still we are being subjected to discrimination. If I want to buy a house, I have to pay a lot more in stamp duty. It must have a swimming-pool and can't be sold on/rented out in 3 years etc. Maltese get VAT back on weddings, but we don't get a cent! But Africans?
@micheal a vella for the moment yes its our jobs, I hope the prime minister wake up to his responsibility and tackle this problem seriously.not even a word coming out of castille about this problem, and this goes for the leader of the opposition as well to, for he have apart to play in this situation.
@MA Vella
I assume you are from Marsa since you know what these individuals do? And I am also assuming that since you are from Marsa you are more than comfortable with the present situation in Marsa. If you are not from Marsa, you cannot and you don't even have the right to put forward such a statement simply from a 30 second drive which you might take through Marsa.
I am not xenophobic, or feel inadequate or fear losing my job - I am simply not comfortable at all any more living in my own village and paying through my taxes for the stay of who comes over here illegally.
I am not from Marsa but I am from Birzebbuga so I know well what the illegal immigrants do and don't do or how they dress (in particular to the branded t-shirts) or the mobiles they carry and the mountain bikes they own together with the cars they drive. Unless you live in my situation you cannot judge or accuse me of anything.
MALTA IS SMALL ENOUGH AS IT IS.
It is clear, from your comment, that you really care.
Why are you not suggesting to the Maltese government and to other European governments what Mr Farrugia has suggested, that is, provide a ship to transfer these people safely from Libya to Europe?
As to your last paragraph... maybe they are afraid of cheap labour.
See if you have the same opinion in a few years time.
Watch Malta slowly become one big no go area.
Where have you been Mr Vella these past years, have you had your head so buried in the sand that you have not noticed the devastating effect illegal immigration is having on the rest of Europe?
Though drawn from different ethnic groups and compelled to live in cramped conditions their behaviour is one of exemplary tolerance, even under such trying conditions. This contrasts sharply with the intolerance and unchristian attitudes that have come to characterise the comments on this site. That much is confirmed by the two comments without any inkling of compassion so far annexed to the news item covering the death by drowning of a woman, and the near demise of 27 others including 2 infants.
What one invariably sees in the vicinity of the Open Centre in Marsa, are individuals who are scrupulouously clean, wearing freshly-laundered and neatly pressed clothes, sitting around and generally minding their own business.
The negative comments that are consistently posted regarding these arrivals to our shores only serve to illustrate the xenophobia and, yes, feelings of inadequacy, on the part of the writers, else why should they worry that foreigners will take over their jobs.
You said it all. But it appears that our leaders (both political sides) have their hands tied behind their backs. The Maltese have to act in a tolerant hospitable mode & play above board & abide by the international humane rules.
Naturally our unscrupulous tormentors abide by the rules of their jungle & don't mind whether they are labelled as uncivilised or any other adjective you care to quote.
No lasting mutual solution in sight. According to local media AFM effect a rescue, here there & every where but no Country rescues us but rather helps to rescue more of them.
If they really cared for these people, they would send a ship over to Libya every week and take them to another country but we know what the true story is all about.