Wednesday, 3rd September 2008 - 07:47CET
Video: 83 migrants rescued off dinghy
(Adds video)
A group of 83 migrants, including a nine-month-old baby, a child and 12 women, was rescued this morning by the AFM.
The migrants were on a dinghy 97 nautical miles south-south-east of Malta. The migrants claimed to have lost 5 members of their group.
The presence of the dinghy was first reported by Rome rescue centre yesterday afternoon. The AFM diverted the tanker Johann Schulte to the given position. A German coastguard Puma helicopter based in Malta for Frontex operations also went to the scene. The helicopter crew reported sighting the boat with infants onboard and individuals lacking life-jackets.
The ship provided the migrants with some food and water and the migrants early today were then transferred to patrol boat P-51 which is expected to arrive in Malta later this morning.
Comments
@Albert Muscat: Look under most commented (Man charged with rape)
"Creeds and traits, both are extra bonus for us."
This is one bonus we can do without especially if it involves a certain 'creed'
We have enough fanatisicm among catholics. the last thing we need is to become another Bosnia. open your eyes and try and see the future through the experience of other countries who had no one to serve as examples. When two cultures collide there's bound to be friction.
we are a miniscule nation which is easily overrun if we're not careful.
Time will show who was right and who chose to bury his head in the sand.
Dennis Catania: I do not "get paid trying to protect human rights" nor to hold the opinions that I express. I don't know what it is you do, aside from organising protests outside the wrong gates, but as someone who preaches at others to help immigrants move on from Malta, hadn't you better take your protests and placards to Washington where you can campaign for a higher US immigration quota?
@ Denis Catania
What are you saying? We are Democratic country, every body has the freedom of speech..
Still, I can not understand that’s Maltese suffering you mentioned earlier!
@Corrine Vella: I know these people here might be your job security, unless you do it on a voluntary basis. Do you get paid trying to protect human rights? Because if you get paid, shouldn't you be trying to help them continue their voyage for a better life. Instead of keeping them somewhere, they don't want to be.
We must have a scapegoat to hang all our evils and vices on. Additionally, we can demonize the scapegoat to add more flare word. Here, Africans are easy target, and the irregular ones are even better. Who says our problem is the irregular immigrants? Will we accept 10,000 of African LEGAL immigrants? If we answer yes, this is hypocrisy, if we answer no, this is racism.
By default, color is a good factor. Creeds and traits, both are extra bonus for us. Here, our ‘patriot’ goats that oft bleat about cultural and demography they have a feast.
@ a.cassar
Does the legal status of a person has any thing to do with what you are worrying about? If it does, can you explain please?
Attention culture protectionist:
Culture that has been built through thousands of years, and feels threatened by immigrants - Is this culture worth saving? If these immigrants manage to do that, they must be super genius then, and I would love to learn from
Please, threes no need to use flare words that only creates unnecessary social tension among population.
By the way, I am still waiting for a definition for culture
But I see ..... we are white therefore we were given the chance (nobody every complained about the eastern European illegals) ............ They are black, we are superior to them, so they cannot be given the chance to become our equals. If you look at the real reason why these people were unable to intergate in countries like England (Maltese managed quite successfully) you will note that the above is very true. (The London Underground bombers were all born and bred in England but society always looked down on them and emarginated instead of integrated them, thus creating the monsters they became)
Given a chance you will see that they can easily conform to our laws and way of life. This is not to say that we do not have a problem. In the long run, if we manage to educate (as suggested previously) them and help them integrate they will eventually seek new pastures and leave our island.
When I say that the descendents of the migrants would become Maltese I'm not talking about citizenship. I mean that they would be natives of Malta, indistinguishable from other Maltese, just like my own and a.cassar's descendents,
I agree that being baptised doesn't make one a Catholic christian saint walking on earth.
Quote:
Unemployment [in Spain] has jumped by 500,000 in a year to 2.5 million as a construction boom has evaporated, emptying building sites.
Socialist Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, who announced an amnesty to about 700,000 illegal immigrants soon after he took office in 2004, has done a U-turn on immigration since winning re-election.
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.
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Economists say the relatively low level of skills among Spain's immigrant workforce makes it more difficult to find them jobs outside the building and services sectors.:Unquote
The argument that illegal immigration and sound economic planning are congruent is false.
Also, economists never make forecasts over horizons measured in decades. In fact, economists rarely agree even when horizons are measured in months. This is because both economic data and statistical methods are too complex, and a forecast with a long horizon quickly develops a wide margin for error.
The repeated claim that "millions of immigrants" are going to be needed by Europe over the next fifty years (or whatever) is outlandish to say the least.
If you liked the expression so much you should have used it to answer a. sevasta(whom incidentally I do not know from Adam) if on the other hand you made a mistake attributing it to me that's perfectly alright you don't have to admit it!
Anyway, the fact that you're not panic stricken puts you in the same league as the Titanic band playing on deck and the smiling papier mache' angels used in our feasts.
And why do you have to bring up religion and being catholic when everyone knows that it's people like you who like to quote the bible to justify your stance. if you are a real christan you should put up some of these illegals in your home for a couple of weeks then you would be in a position to preach to us. One other thing. these migrants will never become maltese. having maltese citizenship doesn't make one maltese just as being baptised a christian doesn't make one a christian.
EU population getting dangerously old
Beyond just ageing, the bloc's population will be decreasing as well.
By 2015, the number of deaths will exceed the number of births in the EU, with immigration becoming the only factor boosting the bloc's population, the survey says.
After an initial increase from 495 million currently to 521 million in 2035, the total population in the EU's 27 member states will again drop to 506 million in 2060.
The population of Bulgaria is to shrink the most (28%), followed by Baltic countries Latvia (26%) and Lithuania (24%), as well as Romania (21%) and Poland (18%).
http://euobserver.com/9/26645/?rk=1
Better you learn about Europe's number 1 problem.
Your friend a.sevasta coined the "negatively concerned" phrase and I liked it so much (NOT) that I used it for you. What you actually said was not that you are concerned (negatively or...erm....positively?) but that the living daylights were scared out of you, as you put it. We can't have that can we? A Catholic christian saint walking on earth who's frightened out of his wits.
As for Maltese culture, it is a very vague term. Although I do not know you, for example, I am convinced that you and I belong to quite different cultures, even though we are both Maltese.
I am not panic-stricken at the thought of Africans integrating and becoming Maltese but some of the comments I have been reading on this board (this is not a blog, incidentally) make it obvious that the many hours of duttrina to which most of us have been subjected in our childhood were completely wasted. The Maltese Church, including religious lay societies, should be asking themselves how effective they are in communicating their message.
A society being trendy is only a matter of taste.
Trendiness does not distract from the fact that firearm offenses increased last year by 4% in spite of Operation Trident having been active now for ten years. In the areas of Brixton, Clapham and Streatham, three boys were shot in just one week.
I have been asking the same question to M.Mercieca these last few weeks. He is suggesting that we train these illegals here in an E.T. centre to prepare them for employment in MAINLAND EUROPE!!! So if europe needs these workers why don't THEY train them? what of those who do not want or are unable to learn a trade? do we keep them as refuse collecters or construction workers on a pittance and illegally employed?
he also suggests that the EU donates to the upkeep of these illegals forgetting that only a few days ago he wrote that they 're not costing us one single cent!
Where did I write "negatively concerned " in my blog?!!!! you would do well to reread my comment very slowly this time!
You contradict yourself when you say that you are not worried that maltese culture will vanish because of 'a few boatloads' then you wonder whether this is already happening!!!
I never said that all illegals are muslims and I don't really care. what I said was that these illegals have a totally different culture to ours be they muslim, christian or whatever. and in time it is a certainty that there will be a clash of cultures as these people o not integrate but form ghettoes and enclaves and in malta it doesn't have to be a community of millions to make a diffence.
Sir I do not believe your story about Brixton. Actually Brixton is now quite a trendy place, with people working in the City, living there both black and white. The major problems we have in England are the local lager louts yobbos who destroy towns over the weekends with their violent behaviour.
Please note that Corinne Vella can judge other people's intellectual abilities but she can never be judged herself!!
However, let me focus on the news item: Rome saw the dinghy 97 nautical miles south-south-east of Malta. If it is such a powerful radar (or whatever it's called), why can't we ask EU to fund us one too? Then, we employ people on 24/7 and spot boats that are further away and maybe catching also the human traffickers. Remember that this is not some humanitarian issue. This is business. With our attitude, we are allowing human trafficking and encouraging people to pocket big sums of money on innocent people's lives. How Catholic is that?
@ Denis Catania
‘To end the suffering of the Maltese and the illegal immigrants’
Can you explain what’s the suffering of the Maltese please?
If,as you say, Europe needs millions of immigrants, why aren't the other large European countries snapping up the illegal immigrants flooding into Malta on a daily basis? The answer is simple: they don't want them because they have enough of them roaming around the streets of their cities. Let's not try to make an illegal activity sound OK. If Europe really needed immigrants, they would set up the proper channels for people to apply to be vetted and enter the EU by a legal route. The fact is, they don't want any more ILLEGAL immigrants and for one example, the UK alone repatriates 800 illegal immigrants every day. The EU just wants Malta to be a buffer, they don't care if Malta is swamped, with all the negative consequences mentioned here in previous blogs, because Malta is small and only important to be used or abused as they see fit. That's what is happening at the moment. The people who are voiceing their concern are right to do so. They are legitimate concerns and in a democracy one has the right to speak up.
That is not statement in favour or against the state of affairs. It is an observation of the shortcomings of some people's thinking and the gaping holes in the arguments they present. It is a subtle difference that you have overlooked twice in quick succession but which you may wish to consider properly the third time around.
I see that you are “negatively concerned” (my English will never be the same again) about the future of Malta.
Why do you assume that all immigrants are Moslem? In Balzan, for example, we have children of refugees serving at Mass.
You have a very poor view of Maltese culture if you think it will “vanish” (after reading some of the comments here, I’d say the vanishing has already started) because of a few boatloads of Africans.
So the setup which you are proposing is for Malta to educate the Illegal immigrants. Correct?
After that, bigger European countries can come over to pick and choose the valid ones, leaving the useless ones for us to care for. Or you might be under the impression that once these immigrants are given proper training, Malta gets to hold the gifted ones, to use Ms. Vella's words... the ones who engage their brains!!!
I remember reading these words some months ago under a different name. The Times perhaps can verify.
@ Joe Gatt
We should never let our obsessions about the immigrants makes us blind and ignorant about facts surrounding us.
If you just care to read papers or listen to news you may understand why the west is ripping-off Africa;s resources
Europe is without Europeans. Europe needs man power, Europe needs millions of immigrants, what we receive is a peanut y compared to Europe's need.
As for Malta, The EU should provide adequate finance to the EU countries (Mainly southern Countries) not only to feed or shelter the immigrant but also to create a training center ETC-style. This center is to provide training to semi and or un-skilled immigrants and may also provide opportunities for some un employed Maltese. In my humble opinion this is how to turn a ‘problem’ into a good opportunity I guess this is where the EU politicians heading anyway.
Believe it or not, it would be a must for many European to accept an African living and working with them. And racist peoples would be behind bars, this is a fact some many are not aware abut yet!
The person who sent you that 'private e-mail message' seems to share your contempt for Malta and the Maltese.
The statement that immigrants are essential because they are doing jobs Maltese refuse to do, is one of the great myths of the pro-immigration lobby. Maltese were doing those unskilled jobs two or three years ago and only refuse to do them now because illegals have driven down wages to ridiculous levels. The beneficiaries are unscrupulous employers, who exploit immigrants mercilessly -- and who want an endless supply of new exploitable cheap labour.
Can't you mindlessly sentimental liberals see that by encouraging illegal immigration you are mainly benefiting those capitalist exploiters -- and the homicidal people traffickers who are responsible for so many drownings? The main victims, Ms Vella, aren't comfortably off middle class people, like you and me -- at least not in the short term. The victims are the very illegals whose cause you naively believe you are championing -- and unskilled, working class Maltese, who are seeing their jobs disappear and their neighbourhoods taken over.
Still, I guess people like you can't be bothered with the latter. They are only 'hamalli Maltin'!
So it's the West's fault that Africa is a failed continent! It's always the West's fault, even though Africa has now been independent for over forty years! Get real!
I know it's very hard for a liberal, but for once please make an effort to stick to facts, not fantasies. Facts: Asia is succeeding economically, as is much of Latin America. Europe, North America and Australasia are big economic successes. Only Africa has been an abysmal failure.
What's the reason? Cultural, dna (your suggestion not mine)? I don't know -- and I don't care. What I do know is that a continent that can't feed itself has almost quintupled its population in sixty years and is set to double it again in the next forty! It has largely been able to do so thanks to Western food aid.
And now, the scale of the failure is such that millions of Africans are streaming to Europe -- and being allowed in by our liberal politicians.
Your fellow liberal, Andrew Cassar has chickened out from answering my question as to how many illegals we should let in. Do you care to answer the question?
Frank Mercieca talks reality, he does not talk racism and hatred sentiments, mela Frank Mercieca is not Maltese! :-)
A PN Supporter Denis Catania
Are you serious?? Have you ever been to Brixton.....once when I was younger some 10 years ago a friend asked me a favour while I was in London to buy him some part for his car from Brixton. When my friend and I approached the ticket counter to ask for a ticket to Brixton he was negatively concerned. Asking us quite a number of questions finally he confessed the problems in that area related to african blacks and mugging. Anyway, we took our chances, went around very careful, bought the part and rocketed back to Piccadily!! That is how Marsa, HalFar and Birzebbugia will be in a few years time, 24/7 not only at night!! Since you live in England and make business with many fellow Africans why don't you explain to us what these "fellow" Africans, in the 'rich' continents are doing to prevent genodice, wars and discrimination in their ex-countries?? What are these people doing to help their fellow countrymen in their needs??
Your paragraph is a very sad statement indeed it and portrays you as a fully fledged uncorteous and unpleasant person, surely not a fully fledged Maltese.
Why all this bleating? Where have you been last March?
Shut up - bunch of desperate women, and useless men.
How about sending them to countries where they have opportunities? If those countries don't want them, let's expose them the African Americans, so they can pressure Congress and the Senate, so they can take it up to the Presidents desk. Because the EU is doing nothing for these people who a stuck in Malta.
It is comments such as yours that turn people into racists. Don't you understand that what you said about malta's future is what scares us? So you see nothing wrong that malta's culture and way of life could vanish and be replaced with a little africa in the med. you see nothing wrong with malta becoming a muslim country. well it scares the living daylights out of me mate.
@ Frank merieca
so the cat is out of the bag! you don't live here after all. So do us a favour and let us MOAN as much as we want. it doesn't concern you anymore since you opted to leave malta.
@Joeph Ellul
Do you know that (hopefully unintentioned) you have suggested slavery in your blog? Not very christian of you.
IGNORE.
A message received "privately by email". Wow!
Not very courteous telling people to stop "moaning". You seem to be intolerant of freedom of expression.
If you are living in England this matter does not concern you so leave us maltese to judge our circumstances.
England is fed up too with illegal immigrants, so I think you are the one saying this. If you like them so much Frank keep them in your house and pay every needs that they have.
Are you one of those emigrants that forgot your homeland and your own native language?
@ Joe Gatt
Is Africa a failed continent by default? or is it a DNA related issue?
Far from that! here is the core of the problem, which is a western design
On Friday, 14th December 2007 MEP Dr. John Attard Montalto wrote a factual article that may interest you if you seriously wish to be aware of, how the problem of Africa started (in modern history)
Here I quote a paragraph - (The scramble for Africa has started all over again. In the colonial period, European nation-states competed between themselves. After World War II, the US permitted Europe to continue to dominate the continent, on the reckoning that the boost to the European economies would boost trade with the US itself.)
------------
Until this moment Africa is being ripped-off by Europe and USA
In today’s language this is called economical terrorism
You address the people of Malta by saying "You are supposed to be a Catholic nation" which clearly means that you are not one of us, hence not a son of Malta. You want to have these people to collect rubbish, clean the dirt and we should thank God because they perform"low paid work".
According to you we would qualify as being catholics once we abuse of these unfortunate "boat migrants" or "illegals" by treating them like slaves. And that would make us catholics. I pity you?
Also your way of reasoning is to say the least, very poor and you must have understood nothing of the seriousness of the problem. You feel to realize that this is a never ending story and ultimately we would end up with thousands of unfortunate illegals all collecting rubbish and cleaning the Dockyard. And because some bloodsuckers get rich, the Maltese would have to fork out taxes galore. In return we would have a shiny, spotless clean Malta. Go tell this to the marines.
@Joseph Muscat: You are slowly turning out to be a sick joke. So you are all for Divorce, Earthquakes, Control of Inflation, voting for 16 year olds, bla bla bla. WHEN ARE YOU THINKING OF OPENING YOUR MOUTH RE. ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?
Oh, maybe their is a secret agreement to agree to play dumb on this subject. Who ever coined MLPN? Shame on BOTH of you.
Pathetic really. Sad we have more of AV's ilk among us who persist in betraying this little island.
I am fed up that our authorities fail to respond (comfortably numb) on any facet of this problem.
I guess everyone is entitled for his/her own opinion, correct?
At present we are the Maltese citizens and not the illegal immigrants or their off springs and if the government wants to have a clear cut view of the people’s opinion, I suggest a referendum being held on a national scale. Isn’t that fair…. But obviously it would cost too much tax payer money whilst giving subsistence to the illegal immigrants isn’t much of a burden!
Assimilation isn't simply about passports. It's about accepting the culture of the host country and becoming part of it. Making a Muslim African peasant a Maltese citizen will not make him Maltese. The more different, ethnically and culturally, immigrants are, the more difficult it is to assimilate them. And it is difficult to find immigrants more different from us than those arriving. They are effectively inassimilable, witness other European countries, where the children and grandchildren of immigrants are more hostile to the host society than the original immigrants were.
Then there is the matter of numbers. A small one time influx of even very different immigrants might eventually be assimilated. Huge numbers continually pouring in will not. Project the numbers. This year we will probably get 3000. Assuming (unrealistically) no further growth, that means 60,000 in twenty years! PLUS their dependents, say three per illegal. That's a total of 240,000 in twenty years! And then they will have children -- the average in Sub-Saharan Africa is more than five per family.This would mean the end of Maltese society as we know it -- in one generation!
Liberals may be willing to commit 'genosuicide', but most Maltese aren't.
"What [many people] do not seem able to understand is that, humanitarian considerations apart', the difficulty is precisely in the 'sending them back' bit, especially 'to Libya', where I am sure, Gaddafi and his cronies are making a mint out of the situation. This is all rather like Josie Muscat's plan to put them all on a plane to Brussels.
Anyway, the true situation developing is that we are increasingly becoming dependent of 'these people' to fill in many jobs which locals no longer want to even look at... and 'these people' make a far better job of it than any local catholic christian saint (fejn taf, hlief ifottu ma jghamlux) has ever done."
By your reasoning, the tall black Malta PM will have a mosque much closer to him than the one at Paola.
Most interesting about your comment, Mr Ellul, is how you dare speak on behalf of God. You are a very brave man.
I suggest that some of our missionaries should work with those illegal immigrants who are here to stay. Talking to the Moslems amongst them about Christianity (and giving them good examples of Christianity in practice), is in my opinion not a bad idea. There is the possibility that in the future some of these people might have a say in the running of our country. Unfortunately I do not think that there is a single Moslem country that embraces democracy as we understand it.
You have a right if you wish, to think that because "Malta inherited its search and rescue area from when it was still a base for the British forces", in 1974 we should just accept the situation and sleep on the problem.
You also have the right to think that a Search and Rescue zone the size of the U.K. is a fair share for us considering the amount of "Burden" it currently holds.
I have no problem with search and rescue missions carried out from our taxes. It's the overcrowding of an overcrowded island that worries me. The Migrants should be taken to mainland Europe for detention or better yet to Libya.
Because a law or situation was passed decades ago it does not mean it cannot be changed. The world's situation has changed drastically since the British left and so has Malta's.
Now if some people's way of change, is to simply sit pretty and let nature take it's course I'm not in for it.
This is plain and simple "demographic terrorism."
Put your money where your mouth is.Take a walk through Marsa past Hal Far around midnight go on I dare you.
Our own grandchildren will not, therefore, have to share their country with foreigners but with other Maltese who happen to have a different skin colour. Some of them may also practise a different religion (so what?) but many migrants are in fact christian, perhaps even more than we are.
Most of us who live in Malta today are ourselves descended from migrants - it has always been like that and will continue to be.
There are those who might claim that Africans will never integrate and therefore remain forever 'foreigners'. That would be a bad thing (for themselves and their children too) and it is why we should accept them and do our best to help them integrate into our culture.
All the snarling nastiness being posted here and elsewhere is hardly going to achieve this but is, in fact, hindering integration and laying the foundations for future racial tension..
You are perfectly right. Old Europe’ futures depending on many types of immigrants.
Europe needs MILLIONS OF IMMIGRANTS FROM Africa-China and India. Immigrants from China and India are needed to fill the Technology-gap in Europe.
Africa export many qualities of immigrants while Europe insists on the quality of the immigrants. (EU is issuing directive in this regard)
Africa will not allow ‘brain drain’ to happen again (similar to what happened post WWII)
Malta is victimized between Europe and Africa (because of location)
Malta’s role in this thorny issue is:
• Receiving irregular immigrants
• Legalize them and (resend some back when necessary)
• Train them and eventually ‘on selective bases’ export them as skilled man power to other European Union member states.
The funds which Malta is getting right now from EU are not covering the costs involved. The government must press the European Union for more funds to cover this business process. The government is rightly doing so anyway.
Here we are not talking spaghetti. The bigger picture is not exactly what we think.
We should first know our problems before useless comments
And probably you must not have not done well in your history class.
Malta inherited its search and rescue area from when it was still a base for the British forces.
97 miles are a lot, yes, but it's still within our search and rescue are and Malta was the closest port of call when the boat was rescued. This is how maritime law works.
So before you try pulling another fast one, at least try and get your facts straight.
Dear Frank,
by putting all your comments in capitals you simply do not impress anyone.
It only shows that you are not right because when arguing it is only those who do not have a valid argument who shout to drown the voices of the others with whom they do not agree.
http://www.gopetition.com/online/21497.html
This is our country. We voted to join the EU so as far as we are concerned all of Europe can legally come to Malta and stay. The same does not apply to Africa. The pro immigration group can invite anyone they like to come over when either they own the country or show that they are more numerous than the anti group.
I'm sure most people would have anything against a fixed number of immigrants coming to live in Malta - the problem is a question of numbers not xenophobia.
In the meantime we have to continue saving people from the seas and allowing them to abuse our commitments to basic human rights laws.
I suggest that the gonziPN team download Google Earth and have a good look where 97 nautical miles south-south-east of Malta will land them close to.
We are being invaded illegally, as simple as that. Africa has millions not thousands of people and they cannot come all here. We cannot waste any more time discussing and making meetings. Our authorities need to stand up and take necessary action.
They come, we give them food and drinks and send them back to Libya, they come again, we give them food and drinks and send them back to Libya again... The problem will be solved in a couple of months. Libya do not care to let them come here illegally and we shall not care to send them back to Libya again. Had they been a few we would keep them here but the situation is out of control now.
the loud mouth is expat based in lovely vibrant London
Why don't you go to marsa, birzebbugia, hal far and tell the people there that they're cowards?
You see what i mean when i say we're looking futher than our noses? the worst thing that can happen to us if we let ourselves be lulled into false security.
BTW
I meant Bernard Cachia not Scicluna in my last blog. sorry!
Do you mind lowering your voice.
3.5 cm; that is how far you have to move your finger so that you can press the CAPS LOCK SO THAT IT DOESNT SEEM LIKE YOU ARE YELLING ALL THE TIME.
Now, let me tell you what you SHOULD be very very VERY afraid of.
Idle thumbs do the Devil's work.
A young woman cannot walk by a group of these delinquents without some form of sexual innuendo or proposal thrown at her. You see, these poeple come from a place where its not a democracy but the law of the jungle.
Fair enough, they are humans and must be treated so, and noone can do otherwise, but then again, this is not their home.
This is our home.
So i suggest you take your 'stop being boring moaners' and funnel your energy into something that will liberate the island from this unseen oppression.
Remember: your kids have to grow up on this spit of land, i suggest you save it NOW.
Please do not introduce party politics into this discussion. What is truly scandalous is that both the main political parties seem to have agreed to leave the tragedy that is happening to our country completely off the political agenda.
Here are two parties who literally never agree about anything important, and yet they have agreed that illegal migration should not be a political issue!
It is an obscenely undemocratic consensus; one that effectively prevents the overwhelming majority of Maltese citizens from giving political expression to their fears through their votes. In effect, the two parties representing some 97% of the electorate are betraying their members and voters, secure in the knowledge that in a general election (which is the only one that really matters to them), we will all once more line up like sheep to give them our votes.
You have failed to answer my question. I'm not surprised. To my knowledge not one Maltese liberal has ever given a straight answer to the question as to how many illegals we should allow to stay. You are all afraid to spell out the consequences of your sentimental and utterly illogical beliefs.
What do you mean by the more people there are the bigger the tragedy? That we should take in all those who come? Irrespective of the fact that it would mean the obliteration of our culture, our identity, our very existence as a people?
Africa is a failed continent, unable to develop economically or even feed itself. Yet Africans continue to have very large families in an unparalleled demonstration of feckless fecundity. In the last sixty years Africa's population has almost QUINTUPLED, from 210 million to 962 million. It is projected to more than double again in the next forty years, to 2,000 million. No wonder Africans are fleeing their continent in ever increasing numbers, threatening to swamp Europe -- and our own tiny island.
Mr Cassar, I ask you once more. How many illegals would you let in before you called a halt?
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/save-malta-from-illegal-immigrants/sign.html
that's precisely the problem. The huge ammount of illegals that are coming in have no time to integrate even if they wanted to (which I very much doubt) just think. there are already places which were until a few years ago safe for maltese to walk in. now they are no go areas. and all this in a few years' time. imagine what will happen in say ten years time. malta is a small country. it doesn't take millions to disrupt our way of life and our culture. when they are strong enough, these illegals will start demanding rights which will impact on our society. we know what has happened and is happening in other countries. we are not special and we will ultimately get hit. this is neither xenophobia nor racism. this is fact.
the only way to solve the problem is to turn them round back to libya.
It's like when another family moves into your home. There are logistical problems as they move in, of course, but that's just a small part of the problem. Unlike us, our grandchildren may not live in a country which they control but in one where they coexist with another cultural family, with which they will have to reach some extremely difficult compromises.
Mmmmmm.... if you pay attention to the comments which you referred to in your post you would have noticed that they implied both the PN and MLP voters. This person's argument was that voters didn't opt for the AN party. Read carefully next time.
Yes i agree with you. the problem is not the people looking for help, but the governing authorities, be it local or international. if it was a dozen immigrants i wouldnt mind malta helping them, the problem is that the influx is so huge and the authorities looking the other way, our country will suffer in the years to come.
yes of course, nobody mentions that. but then again we just get news reports about boats coming in, the rest is excluded apart from the odd article here and there.
Illegal immigration on a large scale creates logistical problems but the only danger I am seeing is from the usual gang of slobs who are a disgrace to all of us Maltese.
sorry for the typo I meant
"....but no way ever getting a working visa if they had to do it legally".
I didn't say I support it - I just said it should be kept in mind. It might, in fact, mean that the numbers may increase dramatically in the near future not just through new arrivals but also through spouses and children of existing immigrants being brought over. This has happened in other countries and there's no particular reason that I know of why it shouldn't happen in Malta.
If that is the case then we agree.
Being irritated and angry at Libya is totally justified, they are not doing their bit. They should use their oil-wealth to good use....and take care of their fellow africans. But you should be proud of us maltese, that despite everything, we treat people like people , and not like animals as the libyan government does.
I DO NOT accept the problem ,Mr Cassar....I think that others need to help. I hate the governements who are not helping us (and them). We shouldn't hate the africans who are trying to get a better life (despite bothering us on the way). If the world at least tries to solve Somalia, Darfur and Congo conflicts, maybe we would get some respite.
i totally agree that somtehing must be done about this, but we must not just look at the africans but also those coming from other countries. i was referring to stricter control rather than anarchy.
Of course we should be worried, I agree. But I wish we could all vent our anger at Libya and the EU. As we are sandwiched between the two, with little blame. "Xenophobes" means scared of foreigners, and I'm afraid there is a large touch of xenophobia out there. People hating the problem I can accept, but people hating people I cannot.
@N.Vella
You totally get me then!! It's very unfair for poor africans to know that they can easily be offered a job picking apples or carrying bricks in Europe if they get in illegally....but no way ever getting a working visa if they had to do it illegally. It is very tempting for anyone not managing to make ends meet in africa to try their luck in europe!....to tell you the truth, probably I'd do the same :) But you have to admit that there is no such uproar about blond east europeans!
@Joe Gatt
The more people there are the bigger the tragedy. And what does liberal mean to you?..... I'm sure no one would classify pope Benedict as liberal and human suffering seems to worry him more than you!!
"The only difference between people like me and you is that I look at the problem from a human tragedy point of view, while people like you look at it from a pure selfish point of view. "
No Andrew, the difference between people like us who are really worried about the situation and people like you who seem to have accepted the problem is that we think also with our minds not just our hearts.We are not dealing directly with africa's problems here. we are dealing with an uncooperative neighbour from whose country these illegals are leaving. we have no control over africa's woes but we can do something about gaddafi's lack of coopertion. tow the boats back to within two mies of libya after supplying them with their needs.
So you "look at the problem from a human tragedy point of view". Presumably, being a liberal, what is happening to your own people and country does not count as a human tragedy.
You justify the problem by saying that "Africa is full to the brim with problems ... and lying (sic) so close". Yes Mr Cassar, Africa is full to the brim with problems -- and with people too. Are you aware that according to the United Nations Africa's population in 2007 was about 962 million and that it is projected it increase to 1518 million by 2030. That's an INCREASE of 556 million in just 23 years -- more than the population of the entire EU.
So as a good liberal, looking at the problem "from a human tragedy point of view", can you tell us how many illegals Malta should accept. We already have over 11,000, so in order not to "look at it from a pure (sic) selfish point of view" how many more should we take? 20,000? 50,000? 100,000? No limit?
Gaddafi sits on his throne and laughs at us for each boat we take in! I'm sure he probably wishes the immigrants luck on their voyage down on the docks as they leave!
Not only that, but they can even land WITHOUT RESISTANCE - like what happened in Marsascala yesterday. How many have landed without us knowing?! Where is our defense network?
And WHY THE HELL are we picking up these poeple in LIBYAN WATERS!?
To the government: The people want action now! Get out of office if you're not going to do anything about it, because GOVTS tackle problems, not try pull the wool over the people's eyes!
Mickey Mouse Strikes again!
Time to act people!
Your comment makes a lot more sense the second time around but the Maltese have a very good and legitimate reason to be upset, and not simply because we are "a bunch of xenophobes!!!" as you tried to imply.
For this reason, Maltese parliamentarians, especially Dr Gonzi, have a duty to take decisive action and not remain mute about this situation that is becoming increasingly urgent.
You were all warned back 4 years ago by a single person who struggled to open the eyes of the Maltese in H’Safi, now we pitiful our selves and pretend Gonzi & Muscat to come to save us from this tragic situation. It will only get worst from day to day.
All the Maltese people are doing now is moaning and groaning,when you are in danger of loosing your Country,your identity,your very way of life
Some form of action must be taken and taken now before all is lost.
Like the rest of Europe the powers that be just bury their heads in the sand and pretend it will all go away,or is there some hidden agenda that us the great unwashed are not aware of?
Please take lessons from the rest of Europe before tourism - your main source of income will be lost forever.
If the rich european and usa need large work forces, why dont they pay the air fare for the poor africans instead of making them risk their lifes, with the possiblity of them drowning or what else and the euoprean countries end up without the african workforce. aren't they rich after all??
and this problem is not just with africnas, just have a look at the eastern european we are getting. instead of coming by boat, they come by plane!
Of course they should be re-united with their families. That is why they should be forthwith repatriated.
No one is pro-illegal immigration. How I wish this problem could be solved! No one needing refugee protection in the world! And....economic migrants applying for jobs with contractors in europe from africa (and only getting a work permit if deemed necessary for our economy). I'm sure this would never happen, but the world should do its best.
The only difference between people like me and you is that I look at the problem from a human tragedy point of view, while people like you look at it from a pure selfish point of view. African is full to the brim with problems....and lying so close, the problems are unfortunately rubbing on to us! Of course it effects me negatively, like it does to all maltese citizens.
People who break the law are not automatically criminals.... if it were so anyone who one day or the other did not pay his maid or plasterer with VAT would be a criminal! Don't just label people, Mr Spiteri, just like you're not automatically a racist, just because you are worried about all these illegal immigrants.
We saved them, gave them food and shelter. I believe that our responsibities were completed. Little Malta is doing more than enough of it's share. In the past few months we are seeing a different trend. 60-70-80 at a time on dingies. Seriously. Where is the governemt. Is this what we elected. Time to act fast before it's too late. And I am starting to believe that it's too late already. People, this is no longer a joke. I ask, where are the ministers. What are they afraid off. Do they really represent the people. 11,000 and over illegals i n6 years is no joke people.
@I. M. Dingli
I fail to see any contradiction in any of my satetments...which are based on basic economic facts. There is a large demand from the agriculture sector for cheap unskilled labour......in fact there was an uproar by sicilian farmers when berlusconi threatened to deport many illegal immigrants. Sicilian farmer threatened to leave their crops unharvested, as it did not make any econimic sense to harvest. Throughout europe you can also see african migrants workers in the construction sector. On the other hand, rightly so....governments (and people) do not want an influx of illegal immigrants (because of the social problems they cause). So the contradiction is NOT in my statement....but in europe's behaviour. On one hand they need cheap labour to compete with asia, on the other hand the only way to fill jobs is illegally.
So basically it is the europeans who are "screwing us" not the africans....who are just moving where there are jobs.
All the above referring vis-a-vis pure economic migrants. Regarding refugees....they have all the rights, as per the Geneva convention to seek protection. Again...Libya are not abiding by the rules, and europe is not sharing the burden.
Is ther a good footballer amongst them???????
Because they know that the Maltese dermocrants are lackeys to all foreigners.
@Albert Spiteri
You are right. Just to keep them in 18 months detention has already cost the Maltese taxpayers more than 182 million euros.
@a.cassar
The Maltese authorities are aiding and abetting the criminals by allowing the illegal immigrants to stay in Malta.
@S.Schembri
Some of the Illegal immigrants who have managed to go to Italy and other countries have come back because they did not find a better place than Malta
"We get lots of money for allowing aircraft to fly through air over the same SAR."
You either don't know what you are talking about (unlikely) or you are trying to mislead readers. This is a blatant and malicious untruth. I know it and you know it too.
For the n'th time, Malta makes no money from administering the FIR (Flight Information Region) which also coincides with the SAR area. It is done on a no profit basis. Does anybody think that if there was money to be made from this FIR we would have been allowed to hold on to it? Italy, Libys, Tunisia and Greece would divide it between themselves and leave us with just the control zone around our airport. This is not oil drilling or fishing.
On the other hand SAR activites and keeping illegal immigrants are absorbing 80% of the AFM's budget and those funds come out of our taxes.
In 4 years we have gone from practically 0% to 3% African illegal immigrants. They will reach critical mass at 5%. Sogni d'oro Gonzi & Muscat.
Whose responsibility it was to help them return to the nearest mainland.
Why did Italian authorities contact Malta and not Libya itself, or sent their own boats.
I am referring only to a legal situation not to human points
a country. A shame really!! Shame on them I mean.
Malta has no need for people who start out their tenure in this country as criminals. An illegal immigrant is by definition an individual whose very first act within a country is to break the law. These people are NOT welcome. They cost the taxpayer enormous amounts of money. And of course, many of these people go on to greater crimes. So it's a vicious cycle where there are few winners beyond unscrupulous employers.
Here is one of your contradictions I. M. Dingli is probably pointing at:
point 1: "... large work-force demand ..." [ in Europe ]
point 2: " ... quickly repatriating purely economic migrants ... " [ back to Africa ]
Mad economists they have in Europe, according to you, Mr Cassar.
Issue a tender ?? Grant the services by direct order, that would be more in line of what`s going on.
When Rome advises us of illegal immigrants stranded close (???) to Malta we should send out our Gozo Channel Ships - pick up the immigrants and take them back to Libya from where it seems they are leaving !
You contradict yourself at least twice within your comment!!
This is a BIG problem...for us...bang in the cross-road between rich europe with a large work-force demand, and poor africa with a large supply of poeple wanting work. You should all be venting your anger at rich europe and america.....and not the poor africans who are only filling in the demand for cheap labour of the rich. One cannot find an ounce of compassion from all you below, but then you expect europe to show some compassion towards us. With all their problems Italy and Spain are looking at this problem in a pragmatic manner. Spain for example are quickly repatriating purely economic migrants back to their own west african coutries. They would NOT repatriate someone back to Somalia or Darfur. And that's what our government is doing....we need to do it as effectively as quick as possible. But I would rather not send a single soul to death or torture, thank you!
There's nothing necessarily wrong with this, of course, but it's something that should be kept in mind, as we debate this issue.
We have said time and again that there is no end to all this, which therefore means that we are giving up on our national sovrereignity. Winter comes and probably the problem would be side tracked, but summer months will come again and they will be more organised. Before we had boatloads of 27, now we have ones of 90. The sky is the limit.
My appeal is try to pick up the crumbs of what's left. Take the bull by the horns, be courageous and put an end to this tragedy, which is gaining momentum every day.
Considering the present rate of 2500 illegals arriving every year, that makes 10,000 over a period of four years.
Assuming that these trends remain constant (influx vs repatriation) and not taking into consideration any births occurring locally, this means that we are ending up with an increase of 7000 illegal immegrants every four years.
Guess how they would spend again the €1,000!
These illegal immigrants are trying to force their way into Malta and Europe.
They are not the ones that we see on TV with flies on their noses, eyes and hanging bellies.
Rather they are physically fit, had the means to sustain them for their journey across the desert and pay for a new outboard as well as their boat, not to mention the expensive satellite phones and even more expensive 'roaming' charges.
The coxwains of the boats and on-board owners of satellite phones should be charged with abetting this illegal activity as well as those 'relatives' who, quite by chance of course, leave their mobiles on during the night and receive 'distress' calls.
As a first step the government should ask foreign powers to position spy satellites over this section of the Mediterranean to spot any ship discharging such immigrants onto boats.
Furthermore Frontex patrols should be given authority to inspect ships for the contents of their holds or evidence that such illegal immigrants had been on board.
In both instances, the ships would be arrested for international human trafficking.
Dr. Gonzi & Dr. Muscat need to be aware that we are fed-up. The next General Election is still very far far away and obviously they will not "listen" to us before that time.
So let us do something because they will NOT...!
According to today´s edition of a leading Spanish newspaper, THE ARRIVAL OF ILLEGALS to the Canary Islands DROPPED BY 20% SINCE THEY STARTED REPATRIA