AD says it made voting age proposal first

J.Borg

Aug 19th 2008, 12:50

I think all the nationalists writers forget easily what used to be said during the election campaign by the prime minister......
things like: 'Fejn huma iz-zghzagh" (where are the youths)
'Dawn huma l-futur ta' pajjizna' ( our countries futur)
and now we come and call and include everyone 16 and 17 year olds as immature and cannot take serious decisions.

Graham Crocker

Aug 19th 2008, 10:05

16-18 is an Easier Market to brainwash I suppose, since they're experimenting and all.

D.MANGION

Aug 19th 2008, 08:28

Most of the nationalists writing down here have no idea whether the high ranks of their party actually agree with this proposal or not. Indeed, this time it looks like Gonzi and his team are sitting on the fence and not showing an opinion on this issue. Would Gonzi and co, just write off this proposal and have the courage to say so, in the face of the hundred youths that stood shoulder to shoulder next to him during the election mass meetings? Were GonziPN's show of force mass meetings decorated with loads of immatures? Let's hear the PN's official opinion on this issue. I'm not interested in Boccu's or Daphne's views. They are well known to all....lame, repetitive, sad and getting old, whether they like it or not.
Having said all this...my personal opinion on this issue is that voting rights should only be given to persons who contribute to the country by paying taxes or doing voluntary work in approved NGO's(plus persons with special needs). Armchair critics, blood suckers, people declaring net losses on their income tax returns, and similar categories. Should not be given the right to vote. Irrespective of age.

Joe Galea

Aug 19th 2008, 08:19

@E. Azzopardi: When you ask these 16 17 year olds, they don't care since they are treated as 'kannoli bla krema', so why do they have to bother? On the other hand, do you frequent blogs on different websites like hi5? Most of those contributing are 16 year olds or younger and most of them really contribute vivdly to this. But you can also feel their frustrations, since they are considered children of a lesser GOD as they don't have the right to vote.

@Rapahel vassallo: It's true that this country is falling into shambles and that there are more important issues to tackle, especially what regards exploding cost of living, physical state of the country, Tourism state of affairs, etc. However, this issue doesn't need a lot of discussion, just an agreement and that's it.

Alistair Farrugia

Aug 19th 2008, 08:15

To everyone smart enough to know when maturity kicks in, would you care explain to me what happens between the age of 16 and 18 years of age that suddenly enlightens an individual's mind? Let me see...students are forced to learn Systems of Knowledge...that could be it maybe? Students are also put under immense, (mostly undue), pressure to study for their A-Levels or further their education... Some drop out of school and start working whatever job you manage to find with O-Levels (or even, without any) ... Where's the enlightenment coming from, I still can't figure it out! Please enlighten me!

One other thing, I can't understand why PN sympathisers are so skeptical of this. Such a system would practically mean a higher share of the electorate would be exposed to PN propaganda, as it's a known fact that the PN are able to penetrate through to youths better using means such as facebook and hi5, for example, in a more effective manner than the MLP can ever dream of. So why so scared of the change? Instead of shooting this down on the count of 'immaturity', why aren't people enquiring why sixteen year olds are still deemed immature?

Joe Galea

Aug 19th 2008, 08:08

What can you expect from ABC? Dear all 16-year olds according to ABC you are immature because you watch MTV ( Iam 35 and still watch MTV). What does alcohol have to do with voting? I prefer a sober 16-year old than a drunk supposedly over 18-year old. Dear ABC I think your vote should be revoked as your immaturity levels that of a toddler.

Well said Saviour Sam Agius.

@Kevin Borg: Not everyone is so immature and uneducated as you are. If you still look for your mummy to change the panty it doesn't mean that all 16-year olds do that. most of these youths are mature, they work and in their way they can be responsible. giving them a vote also will make them more involved into something healthy rather than making them feel like "kannoli bla krema" which translates into youths are unworthy immature beings.

Obviously those who are opposing this proposal are all those PN lickers, since it wasn't Gonzi who came out with this idea. Simply pathetic as usual!!!

Ramon Casha

Aug 19th 2008, 06:54

Of course adults are always soooooo mature in their voting. Many are, of course. I'd like to think that most are. But let's face it, many people vote for their colour no matter what - no thinking involved. Others will vote for you if you promise to push their development application through MEPA or find a job for their daughter. Great way to decide the future of the country.

As part of my job I once was involved in the electoral process and had the opportunity to observe the party representatives during the printing of voting documents. The older people in the room were divided into two distinct groups, with a no-man's land between them. The younger ones of both parties - some seemed younger than 16 - were happy to chat together. I can still remember a young person from Party A asking everyone whether they wanted to order pizzas while another young person from Party B buying the opposite party's newspaper for them on his way. The old men looked sour, as if someone was offering them a baked rat in a bun with ketchup.

ALBERT FENECH

Aug 19th 2008, 03:42

@ P. Abela

In response to your request for personal information, I started drinking alcohol in my early 20s, barring the occasional sweet vermouth (yuk) at Xmas time before that. Yes, there are many things that the PN has accomplished that I approved of. The major one was EU entry in which I voted in favour in the Referendum and the succeeding General Election (yes, I voted PN). There are also many things in the MLP that I have disapproved of, but then many people out there cannot understand that. This is because I am an independent thinker and act on my own personal impulses and not as dictated by ANY party machine. As most Maltese voters are purely of the robotic kind they cannot understand this style of independent reasoning.

James Sultana

Aug 18th 2008, 23:27

@ Andrew Borg-Cardona :"OK, let's all agree that AD were first with the proposal to open voting to the relatively immature. That's exactly what the country needs, governments elected by the demographic that watches MTV and isn't even allowed to drink alcohol."

So, are you saying that for someone to be mature, HE HAS TO BE ABLE TO DRINK ALCOHOL ?? If for you, being able to drink alcohol is the key to be able to make good decisions, then its great .... now I can figure better where certain ideas in your articles might be coming from !!

Keep in mind that children nowadays are much more mature and able to take decisions than some years back .... we now have "very well educated elite class" teenagers who know when and whom to address the f-word to... I am sure that they act on thier own decision making without the need of "mummy-sitting-next-to-me" to tell them what to do !!!!!

Denis Catania

Aug 18th 2008, 22:53

@ABC: I'm 46 and I love my MTV. I want my MTV baby. You better watch, MTV is very big with politics and the young voters. They got the big votes for Clinton. They going to get it for Barrack too. I'm a PN supporter, but Joseph Muscat might win the MTV vote.
Also I believe at 50 Maltese should lose their vote until they mature politically.

Victor Fiorini

Aug 18th 2008, 22:04

@ Daphne,

you're not surprised because of your crystal ball... i'm off to see the wizard....

Romeo Busuttil

Aug 18th 2008, 21:52

I don't agree that the voting age should be lowered down to age 16. In my opinion, a 16 year old is neither mature enough nor experienced enough to weigh everything and take a decision on who runs a country.
Having said this, I believe that unfortunately in our country most of the voting adults are also immature as they keep on voting the same way over and over again irrespective of the situation in the country.
When are we going to grow up? When are we going to start going to the polling booth after really having weighed and considered all, and after having the experience of the last 5 years behind us as well as looking at the alternatives and try to judge them as best as we can?
It seems that the amount of floating voters is on the increase, but is this due to people really starting to use their minds and thinking well before they cast their vote or perhaps because people are getting so sick of our political system and parties that they don't really care at all?
I hope its not the latter, however I have my doubts.

j dimech

Aug 18th 2008, 21:21

Wow earth shattering proposal, this will change the face of Malta, probably the World too. Drs Cassola & Muscat seem to have nothing better to do than come up with meaningless suggestions, unless they really believe that 16 year olds are the only strata of Maltese society who will take both gentlemen seriously. Look forward to 2013 election debate at MCAST and Junior College.

E.Cordina

Aug 18th 2008, 20:58

I think that there is no harm at all in such a proposal. It might get more youths interested in what politics is about seeing that they can have a say in how their village/town is run (which is something that could affect the daily life of a 16yr old more than decisions taken at a national level).

Of course there are more pressing needs in our electoral reform, a few of which were pointed out by Raphael below.

Raphael Vassallo

Aug 18th 2008, 20:25

With so much that's rotten in our electoral system I can't for the life of me see why lowering the voting age should suddenly be a priority.

How about some meaningful changes first, like allowing persons abroad the right to vote at a Maltese embassy, or to send it via post or email? Or a crack-down on personal data abuse by political parties, so that voters may be spared around a billion phone-calls on election day? Or maybe scale down the bureaucratic paranoia, so that our polling booths look a little less like military check-points at the Gaza Strip...

E. Azzopardi

Aug 18th 2008, 19:38

Well, then AD should not be proud of this. Too young to take such decisions which effect the
''adults''. Ask the 16 and 17 years olds about politics and they all tell you they do not care.
And you want them to vote? Can we be serious please and get our priorities right, for goodness sake?

Daphne Caruana Galizia

Aug 18th 2008, 19:30

Why am I not surprised?

jimmy vella

Aug 18th 2008, 19:20

What next voting rights for illegal immigrants.16 is not an age where you can decide whose best to run your country ,on the other hand there is not much choice as all 4 parties offer the same, more taxes for the hard working and more benefits for those who know how to play the social security card,and so 16 is the right age for voting in malta

J.Borg

Aug 18th 2008, 19:00

@ A. Dalli........so you mean all 16 year olds we have in Malta are the kind you are describing....
depicting all 16 years as immature, need to pull them by the nose.
What has the education ministry has to say about this then.......what education are the future adults of Malta getting....or are we going from bad to worse.
How come all these adults we have in Malta already don't have some bit of confidence in our future population.
Abd ABC saying they don't drink....how about doing away with smoking as well.....or you don't like gioving them a good example!!

louis grech marsaxlokk

Aug 18th 2008, 18:56

Dr Muscat should consider reforming the way leaders and officials are elected in HIS party first. Charity begins at home they say!

Saviour Sam Agius

Aug 18th 2008, 18:29

This is besides the argument but just to set facts straight, the legal drinking age in Malta is in fact 16. I don't know where you guys who claim otherwise live, but it's certainly not Malta you're speaking of. (The age for smoking is 18)
16 years is the age when one can drop out of school, start working and buy alcohol. I guess a citizen who's got the right to work and duty to pay taxes deserves the right to vote as well. Some 16 year olds may be immature, but adults are not generally much better either.

@J Micallef
I remember a time when AD was treated as the PN's pet. Just because two parties happen to have a common policy doesn't make them alike. In a situation where the options are either a "yes" or a "no", there's obviously no third option for all three parties not to be accused of siding with one another. This argument is getting lame.
By any chance, have you ever attended political discussions at University? Goodness me, does University make students mature? I bet everybody knows the answer.

Byron Camilleri

Aug 18th 2008, 18:17

Dear ABC,

Those immature who watches MTV and are not allowed to drink alcohol will be voting in the next general election!

BTW, I'm 20, and I watch MTV. Am I immature too?

Kevin Borg

Aug 18th 2008, 18:08

There you have it. As usual AD is happy being the fore front idiot in democracy. Give me one reason why a sixteen year old shall have a vote and I will throw mine of the bastion!

A sixteen year old is not mature enough to decide the future of the country. Especially our sixteen year olds, who do not even read a newspaper. We already have the problem of a major group of people who vote according to family passion instead of thinking with their own minds (hopefully thay have one).

Lets not aggravate the problem by giving a sixteen year old the vote so that he will go upon his mother to ask her

"lil min ha natih ma? lil dak li qdiena"

A. Attard

Aug 18th 2008, 17:59

ABC you are wrong! Go check and inform yourself before you speak!
The law says in Malta that alcohol is legal at 16!
And by the way, your reasoning is so immature, that you seem to be less then 16!
Come on ABC stop licking the PN

Luke Gatt

Aug 18th 2008, 17:51

Than we can lower the age of adulthood to 16 and 16 year olds can get the taste of adulthood!!!!!!!

P Abela

Aug 18th 2008, 17:48

@ALBERT FENECH

At what age did you start drinking? And tell me - has the PN ever done anything of which you approved - such a downer in all your writings!

J Brincat

Aug 18th 2008, 17:47

Malta is the one place were this might actually work. We have one of the most politically aware populations so there is no reason to think that 16 year old s have no right or maturity to vote. In fact speak to any 16 year old in Malta and you would be surprised how more politically aware they are in comparison to someoen of similar age in most other countries in the EU (and probably the world). However I believe that while Maltese are politically aware, they are very susceptible to voting "like their parents" and this may be even more prevalent for a 16 year old voter.

Joseph E Briffa

Aug 18th 2008, 17:41

AD are claiming credit for this preposterous suggestion .....three cheers! Isn't it bad enough that the formation of a government, thanks to democracy, depends on the one- man-one vote principle? In other words the vote of an illiterate person carries the same weight as that of a University professor. Let's not forget that 16 and 17 year-olds are minors in the eyes of the law; their parents or guardians are responsible for their actions. The law sees them as incapable of looking after themselves. They should keep to their activities at post secondary schools not meddle in politics. Their time will come.

ALBERT FENECH

Aug 18th 2008, 17:34

16-year-olds not allowed to drink alcohol? Well, on paper yes (as with most of this country's laws, rules and regulations) but in reality? Has the esteemed ABC never been to a festa, or to Paceville during the week-ends?

Denis Catania

Aug 18th 2008, 17:29

Although I don't agree with the age limit dropped to 16.
@ABC: Are you proposing that non drinkers shouldn't be allowed to vote. See I usually compare age limit on voting, with serving your country in office or the military. You compare age limit on voting with drinking. ABC you are a smart cookie. I wonder if all 16 yr olds are to immature to read the Times..

J Micallef

Aug 18th 2008, 17:28

AD and MLP really deserve each other. Both are mediocre and now they are even trying to outshine each other with their crass behaviour.

It would be better if they think beyond the petty issues and think about the big picture. They are run by kids (or adults with an infant mentality and surreal imagination) and as if we need any proof of that, they want voting age to drop to 16.

AT 16 youths are school leavers, they have never worked and they have not even joined University. What maturity can they have? It's only advantageous to the MLPAD since they would have a higher prportion of inexperienced and naive voters to fool around.

K Falzon

Aug 18th 2008, 17:17

As if we don't have enough polarisation as it is..... Just think we can have Blue Schools, Red Schools and Green Schools..... reminds me of my time at College - three houses three different colours - each pertaining to political party. We can then have Sports Day and the house that wins can automatically have someone in Parliament until the next Sports Day.

It is so clear that AD and MLP have decided on an informal partnerxipp to oppose. Good luck folks - enjoy the ride - and when you come up with something substantive and innovative, maybe, just maybe - others will take notice!

dvella

Aug 18th 2008, 17:02

Dear ABC, please note that in a couple of years some of those 16 year olds will be paying your pension....

A.Dalli

Aug 18th 2008, 16:58

To J.Borg...then when not give the same voting rights to 15 year olds ? What does one year difference do ?
Since I work a lot with such kids, I would suggest that voting age be 21, rather than 18. It is very true, that 16 year olds are not at all mentally developed ENOUGH to take such big decisions. (ie. unless pulled from their nose to vote in such and such a way by their mentors (parents or other)).

J.Borg

Aug 18th 2008, 16:32

It's expected from someone like ABC to say somethig like that....
But saying that people of 16 years being immature nowadays doesn't go down well......
It's the same that was said,,,,,,when the MLP wanted to give women voting rights.....it was said they were good to clean the house.....
When again MLP wanted to lower the voting age from 21 to 18, again it was said they were immature. But this was proved wrong....
Now we have a certain Mr. ABC depicted our 16 year olds as immature......

Andrew Borg-Cardona

Aug 18th 2008, 16:14

OK, let's all agree that AD were first with the proposal to open voting to the relatively immature. That's exactly what the country needs, governments elected by the demographic that watches MTV and isn't even allowed to drink alcohol.