Leone Band Club not involved in incidents at St George's Basilica

George Mercieca

Nov 30th 2008, 09:01

Victoria belongs to one & all. No square is private property!
george

George Grech

Aug 19th 2008, 05:47

To Mr Apap and his ilk I would like to put a question: Nobody has a privilige to 'cancel' the rights of other persons, but do throwing of paint, deliberate degineration of saints, performance of obscenities and obvious provocations like the one contained in the Times front cover photo of the 16th August (which as the report states he and his committee members were unable to control) constitute part of these rights? The route taken by this feast band march in question is completely out of place and a number of Mr Apap's friends have been trying to persuade him and his committee to reroute this band march. Is it wishful thinking to contemplate Mr Apap will have second thoughts? This is what I augur him, his president and his committee.

Mario Saliba - LEO

Aug 18th 2008, 22:19

May i remind Mr Grixti, Mr Farrugia and JV something, that yes we leone supporters protested against the bishop's decision and had all the right to do so and that's why we did it, not like those cowards on the other side. We only fought for our rights and the bishop had to acknowledge all our requests and submit himself to our requests. We are the HEROES.
BYE.

J.V.G alea

Aug 18th 2008, 22:00

@ Mr Apap.
Are you the same Mr Apap that signed all the press releases together with Mr Caruana?
If yes thanks Mr Apap for reminding all the readers that you were one of the signatories for all the press releases against you Bishop and also against your new arch priest. Also one of those who ended in court against your previous arch priest later. Seem you like arguing quite a lot with others! From here i wish to give you too a 100 points too.
Oh sorry more, cause it is your self that reminded us of what you did. I can assume that if i were your examiner i would give you an A+.................
N.B. : Life is to short to have all these problems in 1 year.............
May god be with you and guide you to the right track ................. God bless you my beloved BIG friend.

M Zammit

Aug 18th 2008, 21:39

Mr. Grixti.
I assure you that the only solution is not to alter the route of the march. There is another solution and even more simpler! This is to have the rivals supporters of the Leone Band accept the fact that others have a right to rejoice during their feast without being provacated! This year the trouble makers were kept at bay by the authorities and no confronation was registered.
Your suggestion does not make sense! If one is to take heed of it, then with the same argument the other marches that pass from in front of the La Stella Band Club (three in all), which is another hot spot , should also have their route altered! And then what ? Should then the feast be celebrated on the outskirts of Victoria? Do you think this is fair? So please stop this non sense argument of yours!!!


I also assure you that all those who were present and others who particpated actively in the feast of the Assumption enjoyed the feast to the full. In fact the feast was a very calm one and no confrontations were regestered. And the reason is simple. The rival supporters were kept

Adrian Grixti

Aug 18th 2008, 20:14

Oh dear dear..Mr Apap, no reason to snap at others. I just asked you to answer some simple questions. Please, at least for the sake of this respectable paper, do maintain a comprehensible train of thought. You constantly mention different things which make little sense to what we are dealing here. Unless you have become frustrated, do answer my questions. I invite to challenge yourself . I see no reason why the Leone Band supporters would not obey such favourable (current) orders. Would you speak with such avid enthusiasm about police permits if it was decided to alter the march's route? As a Christian, by no means a perfect one, I call on all those who can make a difference, to alter the route and enjoy the feast of the Assumption in a civil, calm way without the unneccessary confrontations in front of Saint George's Church. That is the truth and I believe the solution.

J APAP

Aug 18th 2008, 17:54

Mr Grixti and Mr Farrugia, please stop moaning about this particular march.
The vital point is - No part of this country is no-man land.
The Police Authorities had issued all permits for this band march and ( can assure you that this permits are legal and issued on certain conditions which I am proud all were acceppted and obeyed by the Leone Band Supporters.
Both of you are acting as advocates to a certain KANONKU who, on his day of installation, declared to abolish LEONE BAND and its SUPPOTERS from St Georges Square and Republic Street. This is the main question. Had this KANONKU any right to declare so. Has anyone the privilege to cancel the legal rights of other persons???
So stop your useless defence for this KANONKU. We will meet next year................perhaps on the 16th August 2009, and both of you together with other contributors will once again present your arguments. BYE

Adrian Grixti

Aug 18th 2008, 14:55

goodness gracious J Apap is really keen on branding others points as invalid.. out of subject and what's not... And the attack you are mentioning? which one? My point is one a simple: passing in front of a rival church is childish. If you like to persist in claiming a right to go there then I guess you have no idea how to celebrate with your own achievements, if any, in your own church and letting others just be. Get it? it's quite clear isn't it? Perhaps some reflection before branding my point as invalid might do you some good.

Franco Farrugia

Aug 18th 2008, 14:22

@ Apap - From your aggressive words, it stands to reason why the feasts at Victoria Gozo tend to become violent and disgusting.
I stand to be counted in saying that in the circumstances, yes, indeed, St George's Square should be out of bounds for St Mary marches and processions.
However, the problems lies with both parties and both parishes. It's time to suspend chapters and feasts!

Adrian Grixti

Aug 18th 2008, 10:18

J Apap, I presume you are an avid fan of the leone band. Assuming that you are a person of sound judgement, a Christian who shows love towards his neighbour and refrains from taunting another Church, dissasociates himself from the toilet paper and blue paint hurled towards St George's church, ringing of brass bells and distributing leaflets claiming that St George never existed, where is the misinformation and rubbish which you mentioned?

J.APAP

Aug 18th 2008, 10:12

Re: V.J.Galea: What you say is all out of subject. Dr Caruana and myself were representing a society that disagreed with Bishop Gech on the 17 September but after a meeting on second November everything was cleared. Vide joint declaration issued on that day.
Goodwill by whom? By the society that firstly declaring to keep out of Savina Square, then to return again this year on Thursday 17th July with a personal attack against ex archpriest Mgr. Vella Gauci and his family.
More: this yeat incidents r happened prior and after the march in question in St George's Church and sagristy:the reason was a protest against the orders given by Bishop Mario Grech through Archpriest Mgr. Cardona with regards the ringing of bells on Assumption Day.
I can assure everyone that Leone Band had obeyed ALL ARRANGEMENTS and INSTRUCTIONS imposed on her by the Authorities both for 14th and 15th August. I am proud that hundreds of youths/supportes participating during these festivities obeyed our orders and this can be confirmed by the Authorities themselves.
So stop moaning about this march and let the authorities carry out their duties and responsabilities.

J,APAP

Aug 18th 2008, 07:34

A lot of rubbish and misinformation.
The main point is: What has happened this year during the march in question- NO INCIDENT
What's the reason for the protests carried out by La Stella Supporters and St. Georges Parishioners? Mgr. Cardona was carrying out the directions given to him by Bishop Mario Grech, after consultations with AC Brincat and Supt. Grech
Some of the opinions expressed are totally out of subject. For full information I am giving the route of this march which route has not been altered since its commencement more than 100 years ago: M'A Refalo Street, around Independence Square, Savina Square, St Mary Street, Library Street, Charity Street, St George's Square, St Joseph Street, Independence Square. All this in three hours
Last note: Do your readers know that about ten years ago St George;s Parish Church also protest against the Leone Band participating in St John Bosco procession held annually on the last Sunday of January, which procession is organised by an NGO Society, the Oratory of St John Bosco.
So it's not a matter of marches. But a decision by some die hard mind to keep St Georges Square a non man areas to Leone Band.

J.V.G alea

Aug 17th 2008, 23:38

Is Mr Caruana the same Mr Caruana that some months ago declaerd the bishop as PERSONA NON GRATA for his so called Society of the lion ? The same Mr Caruana that refused his new arch priest ? The same that declared boycott on the Bishop ? The same that later ended in court against his previous archpriest Joe Vella Gauci ?
Seems he is convincing in his last statement of no involvement !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
VERY GOOD 100 POINTS MR CARUANA ...........

Franco Farrugia

Aug 17th 2008, 22:23

@ M Gatt

The march of St Maria has no reason to enter the square of the Basilica. The police have every right to forbid this. It happens in nearly every village festa in Malta. There is nothing unconstitutional in this.

Adrian Grixti

Aug 17th 2008, 22:00

I do attend both feasts and;yes, I am biased towards common sense. Trouble during St George's feast doesn't occur because, I understand, their marches avoid notorious areas. I also understand that they ceased from passing through Savina Square as an act of goodwill. Again, this action was (&still is) ridiculed by the Leone band club. M. Gatt's contribution fails to get to grips with d reality in Victoria. This is no political rally.There is no message to be conveyed two the Maltese nation as in 1987. Do you need laws to be forced to do something? Do you have the courage two face up to the challenge and avoid St George's Square as an act of goodwill?

M. Zammit

Aug 17th 2008, 21:31

@ Alfred Grixti
Kindly note that it was never my intention to take the readers for a ride. Perhaps it is you who are trying to do so by simply refusing to accept the fact that with agreement with the authorities the march does not stay more than 20 /25 minutes in the square.
Note also that I I have no need to revise what 'provocation' means. If you are not a biased person and regularily assists for both Victoria feasts, then it is very easy for you to realise who are the real 'aggressors' and the 'victims'. No incident has ever happened during St. George's feast, but not the same can be said with regards to Sta. Maria's feast. Surely the latter's supporters are not out of their mind to create problems and ruin their feast.
With regards to your suggestion to H.E the Bishop and the police to refuse issuing the necessary permits for this 100 year old march I refer you to M. Gatt's contribution.

Adrian Grixti

Aug 17th 2008, 20:27

M. Zammit needs to revise what 'provocation' means. Also, D Micallef, are you seriously trying to convince us that a march passing in front of the Basilica of St George, with taunts and a brass bell (clearly aimed at the silent bells of the Basilica) is not provocation? Were YOU present at the march? Do you wish to take the readers of this paper for a ride and make them believe that the march stayes there for 20 minutes? And tell me, why is there a craving to go to St George's Square? Doesn't Independence Square (It-Tokk) and Savina Square suit you well enough?
Larry Vella, you need to celebrate your feast by going to St George's square? Interesting... Level headed people know it: march should take another route. Full stop. End of problems. I supplicate H.E. Bishop Mario Grech and the police to take a stand in favour of justice. I'm sure prayer is needed but injustice cannot be tolerated.

Larry Vella

Aug 17th 2008, 19:25

Cassar -before writing your comments please know the facts right.The band march starts at 11.00 & finishes at 14.00.Route of the march includes the arrival at St. George's square at 13.00 and starts leaving the square at 13.30 as per prior agreement with the Police.

This route has been used for more then 100 years.

I wonder why people try to disrupt this march with various interferences and then portray themselves as being the victims.

This has been going on for various years in the past since it was from the La Stella Club that hundreds of glass bottles were thrown during the 14 th August 1976,& it was near our Cathedral Church door that a bomb exploded some 9 years ago.Thank God nobody was injured.

Who took off the door of the la Stella band club on 14 August last year?Wasn't it done purposely to provoke and to go against a court recommendation that their club should be closed during the same march.Was it done by a LEONE CLUB SUPPORTER TOO THIS TIME?

They should let the Leone march be in PEACE & let us celebrate our feast freely.

D Micallef

Aug 17th 2008, 18:54

A private television station (together with the police authorities) filmed the whole feast, including this said march, with a non-stop filming session in St George's square. Nothing had to be edited or censored. No foul language. No obsenities. No references to St George's church or the saint himself. He who was there can testify, (and cannot testify otherwise!). He who wasn't has no right to judge! Whoever wants a copy of the lyrics sung in that march can consult any CD's or published texts. They're free to be found!

M. Gatt

Aug 17th 2008, 18:27

@apgrech & R.Cassar
There is nothing to understand ...it is simply anti-costituational to declare a part of Victoria as a 'non go area' to a particular section of Victoria residents. So please stop dreaming. In 1987 the Nationalist Party was deprived by the local authorities to hold a public meeting in Zejtun but after taking the case to the Costitutional Court the necessary permits were issued on the ground that no place is Malta can be declared as a non go area for Maltese residents.
With regards to R Cassar other comments:
1. the band march stays in the mentioned square for only 20 minutes after entering there at 1.00pm. So the 'whole march' is not done there!
2. with the same argument of not letting the march pass from in front of the Basilica, then other marches, three in all and in particular the one held on the eve, should also be stopped. These pass from in front of the premises of the rival Band club. Is this what is being suggested?

Mario Vella

Aug 17th 2008, 18:17

Am I wrong or was it Dr Caruana and Mr J Apap the signatories of the infamous press release, a scathing attack on the bishop issued by the Lion Band Club last September in wake of the removal of archpriest Vella Gauci last September. What happened since then? I trust that they issued a public apology since then given that they are posing as the paladins of pastoral communion. Shame!

Franco Farrugia

Aug 17th 2008, 18:13

I am an outsider - a complete outsider. I have NO REASON to take sides.

However, I DO agree that for the Sta Maria march to enter the St George's Square is tantamount to provocation.

When the march is in front of the Basilica, hymns and marches are sung and played which denigrate St George and the bandclub.
Hence, the bells of the Basilica are rung.
The St George's club object to this bell-ringing, obviously so that their mudslinging can have better effect.
These are the facts as I understand them.

Whatever the case may be, I am of the opinion that the Bishop should suspend ALL feasts in Victoria 'until further notice'. Once again, I reiterate that the 'huta minn rasha tintent' and therefore, the Bishop must seriously consider punishing both Chapters for their doings - suspending the Chapters sine die would be one of the ways forward. Anyway, they are not doing any modern-day functions! They are almost defunct, were it not for these stupid piques!!!

apgrech

Aug 17th 2008, 18:03

If what M Sultant said is true, then I agree with Archpriest Cardona that the bells should not have rung during Sta Maria's march.

On the other hand, the latter should make sure not to insult the St George people like they did in previous years.

You two groups need some serious changes in your mentality.

R.Cassar

Aug 17th 2008, 17:26

the problem is only one and it is very simple...the la stella and leone supporters are rivals for a very long time and it needs a little provocation for one of them to counter act...

So why does the bishop and the police, knowing all this, continue to leave the leone morning march passing in front of st Gorge basilica, or better do the whole march there???

dont forget that once the leone supporters have thrown blue paint to the main Basilica`s door, and painted the piazza`s floff all in blue....and the march still passes from there.....

this is pure provocation and it has to end.... the bishop and police have to agree to change the morning leone march route....

apgrech

Aug 17th 2008, 16:25

Both sides need to grow up. I find it difficult to understand why the Bishop or the police allow the Santa Marija march to pass in front of St George's church.

There is a very serious problem in Victoria and the sooner it's remedied the better it will be.to avoid future clashes.

J,Apap

Aug 17th 2008, 16:14

What have in common the Leone Band Supporters and the members of the Chorus Urbanus?
Answer: BOTH ARE EXCLUDED FROM PARTICIPATING IN ST.GEORGE'S FEAST.against Archpriest Cardona's will.
Can LA STELLA BAND supporters deprived from enjoying Santa Marija feast?
NO, NO. Many of them were observed having a lot of drinks in front of their club and parish church even during band marches held on the 14th and 15th August.

Ivan Attard

Aug 17th 2008, 16:11

...the charade of it all. Pure waste of time and money.

M. Azzopardi

Aug 17th 2008, 16:00

Is Mgr, Cardona still enjoying the full support of LA STELLA BAND and its supporters?
Was Bishop Mario Grech correct when he instructed the police to intervene with the ceasing of the tolling of bells during band marches?
Is St. George;s Square not a public area?
Can police confirm that no incident happened during bands Marches of Santa Marija?
Did the Leone Band Committee obey ALL the orders given by AC Brincat and Supt. Grech?
Why did Bishop Grech have to interrupt Pontifical Mass at the Cathedral to discuss with AC Brincat protests against Mgr. Cardona being carried out since 9.30 a.m on the 15th August?

M. Zammit

Aug 17th 2008, 12:48

Mr. Farrugia should be very careful before also attributing erroneous facts to the Leone society. Dr. Caruana only gave a correct version of the facts to stress that his society was in no way involved in the incidents reported by yesterday’s edition of the TIMES. Does for Mr. Farrugia this mean that Dr. Caruana is, “ playing with people’s emotions”?
With regards to collaboration with the Bishop, Mr. Farrugia should know that when the latter feels the need to discuss parochialism with Dr. Caruana and his colleagues, these are more than ready to accept his invitation. But as Mr. Farrugia said, ‘it takes two to tango’.
Regarding that, “there was never a feast ………..any incidents or problems, ” Mr. Farrugia is completely wrong. No incidents have ever been recorded during the feast of Saint George. The only recorded incidents have unfortunately occurred during the feast of Santa Maria, and these were always the result of provocation coming from others who were not ‘tal-festa.’
Mr. Farrugia should know that this year’s Santa Maria festa, was completely free of incidents or problems. This happened because the authorities left no stone unturned when planning the precautions that should be taken.

M Sultana

Aug 17th 2008, 12:18

St George's bell ringers wanted to ring throughout the whole St Marija morning march.
The archpriest did not agree.
They tied the bells with an 'it's-my-way-or-no-way' attitude
The archpriest reported to the bishop and the bishop to the police.
The police removed loads of chains used for Good Friday processions with 21 locks!
Next morning, the archpriest wasn't allowed in his office by his people and went to report to the Bishop who was presiding the St Marija Pontifical High mass
Meanwhile a turmoil ran in his office and the bishop's photo was torn and kicked.
Then the police intervened once again
In the evening, the La Stella Band Club had its facade lit up for the feast and switched off for the 3 minutes while the bishop was in front of its premises during the Sta Marija procession
More?

Franco Farrugia

Aug 17th 2008, 11:04

Dr Caruana - enlighten yourself and the members of the Club that you lead. Stop playing about with people's emotions and accept that it takes two to tango. Accept that not all is well in Gozo and that this is thanks to the deep-rooted rivalry between the two Societies in Victoria.
If you really wish your Church in Gozo well, firstly you have to abide by the decisions OF YOUR BISHOP! As a President, your main duty is to COLLABORATE FULLY WITH HIM.

Secondly, you would divest your Society of any link with any Parish! I am suggesting this to you in the interest of the Diocese. The people have had enough of your (plural) games.

And having thousands of people in the streets means absolutely nothing! Many of them come up from mainland Malta during these days.

You know that in the circumstances, the police and the authorities will never establish anything and that as usual, there will be a general cover-up. Does that mean that nothing has happened?

You jolly well know that there was never any feast held in Victoria, where things ran 'very smoothly without any incident or problem'.

M. Zammit

Aug 17th 2008, 10:25

This confirms and shows that the article on yesterday's edition of THE TIMES was very much misleading. Unfortunately, purposely or unpurposley, it give the impression that the LEONE society was in some way or another involved in what was reported.