Labour's new deputy leader Anġlu Farrugia says he is the right man to strike a balance with Joseph Muscat. The former superintendent also tells Herman Grech he is convinced there were corrupt practices in the run-up to the March election.

Why did the MLP lose the last election?

A lot of the issues I had raised are included in the MLP's election defeat report. We should have been more organised, we didn't reach out to youngsters... we didn't understand what people wanted.

What did people want?

Continuity, peace of mind... they wanted new ideas. They didn't want the Nationalists but feared that the MLP wouldn't give them a natural continuity. People still feared Labour.

To what extent did the Alfred Sant factor influence the result?

Sant was wrong to stay on as leader after the 2003 election. I think he took the decision in the interest of the party, but I believe the change of leader should have taken place in 2003 - in the interest of the party .

Turning to the recent deputy leader election, a lot of people seem to be surprised that you and Toni Abela were elected. Were you surprised?

I knew I had a tough job ahead. I had a lot of baggage because I contested Sant for the post of leader in 2003. It even cost me votes at district level, especially from the die-hards.

How many?

I actually gained votes but there were people working against me who are employed in the structure of the party. Nevertheless, I remained close to the delegates. I continued with my home visits and it gave me a boost.

Who worked against you?

I won't mention them, but they are top officials. Some of them are still present. I have no problem with that and I refuse to have a clash with these people. They might have thought that Anġlu Farrugia would be better off working within other structures of the party, but time has proved me right.

Were these the same people who could have been backing Joseph Muscat?

I don't think all of them were - but they were certainly in Sant's group.

To what extent did your role in probing the PN's 'vote buying' allegations help win you votes among delegates?

The Nationalists have a tendency to change their opinion to suit their causes. They used to say that I had no following within the party; and now that I've been elected, with an absolute majority, they are saying that I took advantage of the vote buying claims. I ignore what they say.

Can you blame them considering you were making these claims while campaigning for the deputy leader post? Could you have been capitalising on the anger of the delegates still seeking 'justice' after a third electoral defeat?

I don't rule out that it could have helped me, but I assure you that I did it in the interest of the country. I did this to ensure we have electoral reform; to remove any possibility of electoral abuse. An election should be determined by the freedom of the voter to decide as he pleases. I've even made contact with the OSCE and will raise the issue of electoral irregularities during the committee for democracy's committee at the plenary next week. There were particular ministers in a caretaker's role issuing particular permits to particular families.

Who are these ministers?

I gave the Police Commissioner the names of two ministers.

Are they both serving ministers?

They're both in the Cabinet.

Does it mean that they 'bought' votes?

I know of families of up to 70 people who had initially decided against voting, and all of a sudden decided to go en masse.

Don't you think it's become normal for both parties to grant 'favours' in the run-up to an election?

The Labour Party didn't have major importers delivering white goods for free to certain individuals in Cottonera in the run-up, and on the day of, the election.

So are you convinced that the PN bought votes?

I know of people who had a kitty of €250,000 (Lm107,000) to hand out to voters. During election week they paid €115 (Lm50), €172 (Lm75), and up to €345 (Lm150) per vote.

What do you mean?

These people had hard cash to convince people, mainly Labour-leaning, not to vote.

Do you think the election result was swayed because of this?

I can't tell how many votes were bought. That's up to the police to establish. Even if these facts do not lead to any prosecutions, it's enough to realise that these things shouldn't happen.

When will the police investigations be concluded?

Only the Police Commissioner knows. I'm not interested in who, or if anybody will be arraigned. It's a political question. Should these things happen in our country? Malta has never engaged international observers for its elections.

Do you think an EU country needs international election observers?

The US is the biggest international democracy and it still calls for international observers.

Do you think we've reached a stage where we have to request observers?

We've reached that stage. After 20 years in government, the PN is permitting corrupt practices.

What can an international observer establish?

They will establish norms and standards to ensure at least minimum, basic requirements for a free democracy.

If the police do establish that the PN bought votes, what should happen?

The government won't cave in but it will certainly be under pressure to fix some things.

Many believe Joseph Muscat is doing his utmost to project Labour as a new, modern party. But some, including Labourites, say that the choice of deputy leaders means that the MLP took one step forward and two steps back in the space of a week.

I disagree with them and I'm sorry for them.

Why are Labourites also arguing this way?

Labourites are not arguing this way. The ones I've met are saying it's important for Muscat to have people like me behind him.

What do you mean?

That Muscat has people who can balance things and who can create a good cohabitation in the leadership.

Is it because Muscat can be soft?

Muscat has his own style. I have mine.

And what's Anġlu Farrugia's style?

When I want something I will make sure I achieve it. I will not fail...

Even if that style is not good for your party or country?

It's important that whatever you do in politics, you make sure it's good for the country. I'm determined - and I think Muscat should have people around him who are determined. We've been quiet for too long. We can't keep claiming that we've forged ahead as a party, when in reality we haven't.

Does it mean that your style of leadership could possibly run counter to that advocated by Muscat?

No. I can assure you that it will be a leadership which works well. I will make sure that I will give Muscat whatever he needs to reach his targets.

Some people see you as brash and rough.

Anybody who's crossed my path, especially in the political scene, knows I'm tough. But Muscat is the leader and I'm behind him.

Do you think Muscat was the best choice for leader?

If he was chosen by the delegates, then he was the best choice.

Do you think there are still cliques operating in the MLP?

If there was anything of the sort organised, once I am part of the leadership they will automatically disappear.

The Nationalists love linking the word 'clique' with (MLP general secretary) Jason Micallef. Do you think he should continue playing a role in the party?

Micallef has his defects and whenever I had to criticise him, I forged ahead and told him so. He has every right to make his contribution at the general conference.

Would you back him for general secretary?

I won't back any candidate. I will allow the conference decide on the new administration.

Last Sunday you said that you had advised Muscat that Charles Mangion should continue in his role as acting opposition leader pending Muscat's election to parliament. Why did you do it?

I had every right to be sworn in as acting opposition leader but I humbly decided against. It was a way of thanking Charles Mangion and I also believe he can guarantee continuity until Muscat takes over. I wanted to ensure there is more unity in the party.

Does it mean that Anġlu Farrugia wouldn't have brought unity as acting leader?

Unity, yes. But I wanted to send a message that there is a sense of fraternity among colleagues. I keep meeting people who say they admired the step I took.

Some people are saying that the (Mangion) proposal was in fact Muscat's idea. True or false?

It's absolutely not true. On Sunday morning, I relayed my proposal to Muscat in the presence of Toni Abela.

And did Muscat agree with you right away?

He asked whether I was sure of my proposal and I said I was.

Isn't it a sign of political immaturity not to realise that the opposition should have consulted the President about the matter?

I spoke to the leader before resorting to the President. Constitutionally, the President was right, but then he understood how the move would mean continuity. The MLP parliamentary group agreed unanimously with my position.

Are you prepared to assume the role of acting leader?

Of course I am. In fact, Muscat is abroad today and I'm acting leader.

The Labour Party insists that the EU is no longer an issue. What do you think of Malta's membership of the EU?

For me, it's not an issue. I've already expressed my disappointment to Muscat that the Lisbon Treaty stalled in Ireland. That's going to cause problems, even for Malta.

In an interview in April 2003, you said you've never been in favour of the EU and when asked about the referendum you had also said "I believe we should have abided by our interpretation that we won the referendum". Weren't you playing a different tune?

Five years ago, the MLP had adopted this position. We changed a lot. You're going back five years.

Correct, but in 2008 are you convinced that EU membership was a good step for the country?

Definitely. I'm convinced. I'm also convinced that we have to work together to bring out the best from the EU, which we are already doing, and doing well. But we can do more.

So do you believe that the stand adopted by the MLP in 2003 (against EU membership) was mistaken?

We failed to do something at the time. Once the referendum was won by the 'yes' vote - even if my interpretation at the time was different - we should have gone to the electorate and said that we would respect the decision of the electorate at the referendum... and we would have won the election!

You were a senior police official in the so-called dark days of the police in the 1980s. Do you fear that the past might come back to haunt you?

I have no problem talking about my past. I'm clean and I've never been accused of breaching human rights. I left the corps with an excellent conduct record. I'm proud of the fact that when they were elected to government the Nationalists appointed me to investigate claims of torture that took place in the 1980s. They wouldn't have chosen a person who was involved.

I had investigated the most sensational case - (the murder of) Nardu Debono. I condemn anybody who perpetrated violence, the same way I condemn Nationalists who planted bombs outside people's homes. There used to be a bomb planted outside someone's home practically on a daily basis. They even planted a bomb outside the Apostolic Nuncio's residence. One of the things I had wanted to do when the Pope visited Malta was settle the pending constitutional cases. We had to start with a clean slate.

So are you saying the 1980s (violence) was used for political convenience?

Of course. The violence didn't take place just in the 1980s. The moral violence persists till this day.

But the physical violence took place in the 1980s.

There's no doubt.

Are you sorry that certain things took place?

I condemn anyone who perpetrated violence...

...including the police, who sometimes caused it?

Any police official who used violence was condemned by the courts.

So are you saying justice has been done?

I think the Nationalists have been in government for long enough to act against those who perpetrated violence.