UPDATED: Exodus of doctors worse than government saying - MAM
(Adds ministry's reaction)
The Medical Association said that up to 50 percent of young doctors could be leaving Malta to work abroad this year, a figure which is substantially higher than that given by Social Policy Minister John Dalli in reply to a recent parliamentary question.
“The MAM is disappointed that the health authorities have failed to provide Minister John Dalli with correct figures on the number of doctors leaving the island,” union president Martin Balzan said in a statement.
“There are indeed a significant number of young medical graduates who have continued to leave our shores, and the figures quoted in parliament clearly do not include doctors who are on “emigration leave” or indefinite “unpaid study leave”.
Mr Dalli said that all 52 doctors who graduated from the University of Malta last year are still working in the public service. By comparison, there are still in Malta 29 of the 34 who graduated in 2003, 58 of the 65 from 2004, 60 of the 61 from 2005 and all 44 of those who graduated in 2006.
Dr Balzan said the MAM had already drawn the attention of the Health Division, that it needed to improve the collection of data on doctors who have long left Malta, and continue to appear on the books of the division.
This is data collected so far by MAM
Year - Graduated - Leaving - Remaining - Leaving (%)
2003 - 37 - 15 - 22 - 41
2004 - 68 - 28 - 40 - 41
2005 - 62 - 14 - 48 - 23
2006 - 47 - 15 - 32 - 32
2007 - 60 - 22 - 38 - 37
2008 - 52 - 21 - 31 - 40
Total - 326 - 115 - 211 - 35%
“Furthermore MAM is reasonably informed that around 30 young doctors and 15 final year students have plans to move to the UK as from July pushing the figure up to around 50%,” Dr Balzan said.
He said MAM welcomed the efforts of Parliamentary Secretary Joe Cassar and Minister Dalli, to formally introduce structured post graduate training. It hoped that this measure would greatly encourage doctors to stay in Malta.
The Social Policy Ministry in a statement this evening said that Mr Dalli was precise in his reply to the Parliamentary question.
It said the question asked in Parliament were: ‘How many doctors who graduated in the past five years are still employed in the public sector?’, and ‘How many renewed their licence with the Medical Council this year?’.
The minister gave the following figures:
|
Year |
Graduate doctors |
Still in the public service |
|
2003 |
34 |
29 |
|
2004 |
65 |
58 |
|
2005 |
61 |
60 |
|
2006 |
44 |
44 |
|
2007 |
52 |
52 |
The figures showed that those who graduated in 2006 and 2007 were still in the public service. The figures included those on leave since they still formed part of the public service.
The minister in his reply also said that this year all doctors employed in the Public Service had renewed their Medical Council licence.
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S Cassar
Jun 21st 2008, 12:19
Being a medical doctor has always been a very prestigious job. It has always been like that and it shall always be. Unfortunately, the work is being underestimated because it's being dished out for free to the people. Let it remain this way if we can afford it as a country. But if Malta cannot afford to pay for the medical students' course, then it should think seriously about sustaining a free national health service!!! and that includes lesser being graduates such as lawyers et al. Let doctors go wherever they feel like and think is best. As long as we keep getting a good service from doctors, we should not even think of probing into this topic. And that's the end of it.
Andrew Camilleri
Jun 20th 2008, 21:16
@ Samuel Scicluna.
Yes, its everyone's business when it involves them personally. Otherwise, its no ones business what I do with my life. No one tells an architect or a lawyer that they have to work here 'bilfors' for a number of years. It's something you just cannot do.
If they did, less people would enter the medical course. Many people who do do so with intention to leave anyway. Like I do, no matter the incentives offered by the government.
Sascha Reiff
Jun 20th 2008, 20:45
@ Analise Bartolo
No medical student who has written in this blog has implied that what we are doing is an act of martyrdom for the good of the country. Where do you get your ideas from? We are merely stating that with the current situation junior doctors face in hospital, it is only natural that graduates leave to continue their studies elsewhere.
Furthermore, I do not see any reason why we should be bound by contract to work for the government. Students should be free to do what they want after they graduate, as it is at the moment, so leave it as it is!
The government is already trying to solve the problem in the right way by increasing the salaries, starting some form of structured training, and allowing foreign medical schools to open, which themselves will also offer post-grad training. Granted, it is all a case of a little too late, but it is obvious that it will take time to fill in the vacancies, and to change/introduce the new system.
Until that time, welcome Philippinos! (to quote our dear A Daley!) I prefer a foreign j. doctor than an overworked red-eyed maltese registrar!
Samuel Scicluna
Jun 20th 2008, 20:06
Mr. Camilleri's 'enlightened' remarks do not do his course justice - the business of the medical profession is everybody's business, no matter what he says. Medical students may like to think of themselves as scapegoats, but are proved right by the proposals in some of the comments below (Skelt and Daley) are discriminating against medical students. If the state offers free education across the board, then there can be no provisos, and no contracts. That concept is not a FREE course, and you cannot call it such.
Back to the topic at hand: this is a rude awakening for the government - if it thinks shoddy courses run by untrained co-ordinators are going to bait doctors into staying here, they've got another long think coming. Even a stiff fine wouldn't be enough to offset the massive advantages gained by training in established centres. Whether or not they'll come back after that is anybody's guess: doctors have lives too, and should not be bound to any country just because they studied there.
Andrew Camilleri
Jun 20th 2008, 19:32
Sour grapes Bartolo. You're irritating me. I don't think any less of other students because they're not medical students, and no one ever said anything of the sort. So stop being rude. Yes, the medical course is pretty hard, but we don't stay gloating. And I'd be the first to say that friends of mine from engineering and architecture have shown me time and again that their respective courses are just as tough, if not more.
As for law, well. The traditional animosity between medical and law students speaks for me.
By the way, its not 'Mr' Agius, Bartolo. She was a lecturer of mine in first year. Ergo, she's not a student (I hope law students understand the meaning of 'ergo' - that is, unless their intelligence fails them).
Stop poking your snooty, overlarge noses into the business of medical students and medical professionals. What we do with our lives is none of your business, and full stop. As I said before, the only time that the business of a doctor and the business of any other person coincides is during the exercise of the profession. So cut it out.
Christian Camenzuli
Jun 20th 2008, 18:18
Dear Ms Analise Bartolo,
i wasn't going to contribute to this discussion because some colleagues before me spoke very wisely and identified what the problems are.. the same problems incidently the government already identified and is trying to resolve within Malta's limitations.
anyway, you ask "can medical students stop making a fuss over the fact that they are in medical school??" .. the answer is we're not. we know we are nothing special and we're studying to become professionals just like all the students you mention. however Ms Bartolo none of the named categories of students is under attack like medical students. everyone proposes restrains.. where are the restrains for all the other students?. they attack us because we want to learn more..... that even sounds strange!! they attack us because we will be paid for the high risk (medicolegally and health wise) jobs we will have ... doesn't it sound strange as well!!
as you can appreciate Ms Bartolo although we are nothing special, these issues do make us special!
george zammit
Jun 20th 2008, 17:34
5 years of free education from our tax money together with stipend and then junior doctors thank society by leaving the country most never to come back - and those that do dont even work with the government. and a little enlightenment to all medical students: i'm sorry to burst your bubble but there are many other EQUALLY prestigious courses being thaught at the university of malta.
Anne
Jun 20th 2008, 17:01
Dear Analise Bartolo
if engineering, architecture and law students are as equal to us med students then why aren't they expected to work 2yrs for the government after completing their course also?
don't they gat stipend too....???
if you are capable of answering this question and making sense, then good for u, if not, ur comment was useless
anne
Sarah Chetcuti
Jun 20th 2008, 00:39
can medical students stop making a fuss over the fact that they are in medical school?? Why do they consider themselves to be martyrs for opting for this course? Don't engineering, architecture, law students et al have to endure the pressure of their studies? The arrogance of the likes of Mr Aguis is irritating to the rest of the student body.
A Bonnici
Jun 19th 2008, 17:02
In my opinion no one has the right to impose what is the best for a person. If a doctor or any other health carer decides to go to work abroad for his best, he or she has every right to do so. Working abroad as many others have stated brings better working conditions and better pay, with much more opportunities for career advancements in the health care field.
I think that if the demand for doctors and nurses in Malta is higher than the supply, then it is in Malta's best interest to provide good working conditions. Thus giving humane working hours and a good basic salary....and not abusing from the staff that we currently have.
HEALTH CARE STAFF IS NOT A STATE PROPERTY
A M Scerri
Jun 19th 2008, 12:14
@ Jonathan Camilleri
Medical Students do not run around in flashy cars as much as you would like to think!!! The Lm 200 grant (stipend excluded) given at the beginning of the year is not sufficient for the dedicated medical student to buy books and equipment which are both expensive.I am very grateful that thus, through the stipend the government, thus, the country helps me with these expenses. To be reasonable, one can't buy and maintain an expensive car simply with a stipend! I am very concerned because I know that ahead of me lies a very uncertain future and I am faced with having to ask myself questions about whether I should leave or stay - to seek the enhancement of my education and ways in which learning and experience can make me a better individual and citizen. Being a medical student is not easy and the road to becoming a medical student isn't either! Medical students have to make many sacrifices which students in other courses are not asked to make, implicitly or explicitly. Starting specialization courses here is the way forward, but not all specialities are included and how this matter unfolds remains to be seen!
A Cachia
Jun 19th 2008, 10:40
I don't know what MAM is trying to acheive through these statements. It is clear that the last collective agreement has not had the desired effect, given that a number of clauses were intended to scare doctors away from leaving the island by making it impossible for them to come back as consultants once they complete their training.
C. Tanti
Jun 19th 2008, 10:36
L. Azzopardi says: "And yes, they will continue to do so until there is proper structured training locally."
And may I add, they will continue to do so even when there is one. It cannot be any other way. It will be impossible for Malta to offer the whole range of specialities available abroad as part of its structured training programme. Also, if young doctors continue to perceive that work conditions are better abroad, as well as remuneration, they will still opt for leaving for pastures greener, no matter what anyone says.
Andrew Camilleri
Jun 18th 2008, 22:34
I think suggestions that newly graduated medical students should be forced to stay put in Malta for any amount of time to be completely offensive. What right does some random preson who has no idea what it is to be a medical student have to come up with such obnoxious garbage? Here I specifically refer to that ubiquitous Labour Elf Daley. What medics do is none of your business, unless it involves your guts spilling out all over the table. So stop spouting utterly useless trash.
WHATEVER incentives the government provides are not going to keep young doctors in Malta. There is a much wider world out there which many of us are itching to explore, whatever the downsides of living abroad are. We have to go abroad to broaden our horizons. It is impossible to keep up with the modern medical profession unless one has experience outside this little bubble of ours. Keeping us here would be a dictatorship. Much like Malta under MIntoff and KMB, may I add.
By the way, cheers Sascha ;)
L Azzopardi
Jun 18th 2008, 19:10
I do not get the point with all this eagerness to make doctors "pay back" their "free" education's worth. Doctors are not charity workers. Nor do they survive medical school for the fun of spending somebody else's money. I look forward to Mr Zammit's children entering the medical profession. Clearly he has never lived with anyone in the profession yet. While we're at it, why dont we make people with unhealthy lifestyles pay for their healthcare? Arent they being "disrespectful" to the taxpayer as well?
I agree completely with J.Abela, Dr F Portelli, and J.CA. This is about better training opportunities and becoming better doctors, and it is shameful to even consider discouraging doctors from doing so or punishing them for it. If five long years of medical school, 30-hour shifts, and moving abroad to start from scratch in a competitive field sounds like an easy ride to anyone, I challenge anyone to do it. Then, and only then, should you criticise young doctors moving abroad. And yes, they will continue to do so until there is proper structured training locally.
J Calleja-Agius
Jun 18th 2008, 15:35
@ Kevin Zammit, and all others who share his opinion
First of all, it is Ms Calleja-Agius, not Mr. May you please note that in this millenium, women are actually bothering to go to University and becoming specialists, even in a country such as Malta.
Secondly, medical students get a stipend, similar to all other undergraduates attending the University of Malta, so I see no special treatment in their case.
Thirdly, I sincerely wish your children to have the brains and the guts to become doctors, and then you will be be able to get a grasp of the reality of what it really means to be a doctor. However, if you are encouraging your children to become doctors simply to become rich or for the'glory of it', then you are really in for a big delusion, for they will surely quit and switch to another career, if any.
M Bonello
Jun 18th 2008, 15:27
Mr Zammit said:
Glad to hear that doctors make all these sacrifices for nothing but pure altruism. We should fall on our knees and thank the heavens ... or should I say fall on our wallets?
I'm sorry to hear these type of comments because such comments are just there to instigate confrontation and hate.
J. Doctors do not demand anybody to fall to their knees and thank heavens, they just demand proper renumeration, adequate work conditions and a chance for further post graduate training, something which in an EU country is the norm, but in Malta it is not.
Is it any surprise that such doctors move on to other countries were they can be able to have a decent life, and specialise?
Just taking advantage of such doctors, in the meantime threatening with a 'fine' (pay back for their studies) is not the way forward.
Improving renumeration, working conditions and training is. If a junior doctor works according to EU working time directives (48 hr week) His pay is just 5750 MTL. In the UK the same doctor would be earning 22,000 UK pounds. That is the difference.
Sascha Reiff
Jun 18th 2008, 15:22
@ A Daley
I was referring to your FIRST comment where you suggested that an agreement should be struck where "every graduate must work in our hospitals for a minimum of five years after graduation " I'm not blind you know. And as to C Tanti's commment, I was also referring to his/her FIRST post, and I furthermore mentioned particularily to which part of his post I was referring to. I did not mention any pay!
You made me doubt whether I was really awake last night when I wrote my post, it seems not, what I was quoting is all still written down there, go read again!
And you are showing how politically biased you are, doctors have been leaving for ages to specialise. Where do you think our consultants got specialised?! The problem of doctors leaving isn't recent. It has only become apparent now since through the EU, graduates can leave immediately to specialise, instead of having to work for two years here first.
Why are you asking me to speak in 4 years' time? Is anything going to change?
A Daley
Jun 18th 2008, 11:58
@Sascha Reiff (14 hours, 45 minutes a
QUOTE - You're right, you never "stated that only doctors should work for 2 years after graduation"... you said we should spend 5! - UNQUOTE.
Dear sascha reiff, I never said doctors should spend 5 years. The first paragraph of mine was what Maria Attard had written.
Read everything before you comment, cause your whole palava is out of order. c tanti agrees with me, that the doctors' salaries in Malta are still too low when compared to other EU countries, which is going to result in an exodus of doctors to other EU countries. The brain drain has not started as yet. Wait and see what is going to happen to our nursing staff. Let us not forget, that we are very well versed with other European languages, which makes our escape from this hell easier.
Speak in 4 years time!
Andrew Camilleri
Jun 18th 2008, 11:51
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the infamous doctor's strike of the 1980's caused by the fact that the government wanted to keep doctors here after they graduate? Time does really change people's perception and ideas!!
Corinne Vella
Jun 18th 2008, 11:09
Obliging people to pay for their education could have the opposite of the desire effect. If people are going to pay their way, they'll go where they can get the most for their money. If payment is made retroactively obligatory, then new doctors will have more, not less, of an incentive to seek better pay and opportunities elsewhere. Shackling new graduates is no way to keep them here. Some doctors leave without wanting to and if someone is determined to leave then s/he will leave anyway. Whatever happened to the idea of making a career in Malta the preferable option?
j degiovanni
Jun 18th 2008, 10:03
MAM spoke too late. Why didn't MAM ensure better conditions for the juniour doctors? Bloody hell!!! It's not the time to talk now. Just lump your egoism. MAM has only improved conditions for the consultants and did nothing for the lower grades. Now, consultants are suffering the brunt of missing the juniour doctors' input. Serves you right MAM. You have made no effort to improve PAY for the young doctors. After all, doctors go abroad to specialise so that they could make it to the consultant grade and do their private practice. And you've just made this worse by providing fake promises about training and better conditions for the consultant grades only.
Mark Fiorentino
Jun 18th 2008, 05:39
I'm a doctor and have left the country to specialize in Australia. When I asked for UNPAID study leave, so that one day I will be able to come back without losing my current status in the public service, the answer was a DEFINITE NO.
I was only given six months of unpaid emigration leave. After that "you will be fired if you don't resign".
So, dear government, please don't complain when doctors leave and never come back. You're encouraging them to do so!!
J Abela
Jun 17th 2008, 23:38
@ Kevin Zammit
Thank you for your candid reply which does however, sound a trifle confrontational. All professionals should be free to determine their own progress, so do us a favour and let us doctors do the same. Besides being a surgeon I happen to be a teacher too. I never doubted that you were not born yesterday and I genuinely share your views on the essential service provided by educators. I appreciate your careful mathematics but I do not have the time or inclination to be dragged into the economics of who deserves better compensation. It smacks of the intricate egg and chicken argument. With regards to this present discussion it is plainly irrelevant, even more so since I represent both the medical and teaching castes...so nothing to dish out there pal.
Let me assure you that the "fair" constraints on medical studies which you appear to be suggesting will only serve to repel enrolment for the degree and accentaute the present shortage. I'm sure you'll agree this won't help the minister solve the problem.
Kevin Zammit
Jun 17th 2008, 23:16
Mr. Agius,
Glad to hear that doctors make all these sacrifices for nothing but pure altruism. We should fall on our knees and thank the heavens ... or should I say fall on our wallets?
The way I see it to become a doctor in any other country one would have to shell out a lot of money. In Malta you're not saddled with debt when you leave university. You are saying all this because your assuming everybody can just go and get a job (in England more than any other country). Most countries put up a lot of barriers because the medical association does it on purpose so as to keep their wages high. But you have to first have that degree which allows it, even if you're going off to further your studies! So if it was not for the free education you get it would be darned harder to do anything else now would it not?
I would love to see my own children enter the medical profession and I still think it is only fair that they pay back to society what society gives them.
J Calleja-Agius
Jun 17th 2008, 22:34
The Maltese public should be proud of and grateful to the medical doctors who have the determination to leave all their family and friends behind, in order to pursue their specialist training abroad. No one can ever imagine all the sacrifices that they have to make! And yet, most of them, me included, ultimately want to return to Malta, because that is their home and that is where they would prefer to offer their services. So, why not recognise the need for further proper training in Malta, even if done in co-operation with foreign university hospitals?
Kevin Zammit
Jun 17th 2008, 20:56
Mr. Abela (or should I say Dr.?)
with all due respect, you're not tryig to say that the teaching costs of a doctor are identical to those of a teacher? We're not born yesterday you know?
Let's say for argument's sake the average pay of a doctor is 50K and the cost of a medical course average of 20K per year (all in euros) that means a doctor shuld cost 100K in total. Is it not fair then that the country should recoup this expense say by working for 25K for 4 years? You know, all professionals, including teachers need to have dedication to do otheir job well and carry an obligation of service towards the society they belong to, otherwise we're not going to move forward. If a toddler's teacher does nothing else but instil a yearning to learn that eventually produces another doctor, then that teacher has saved as many lives as that doctor has. So who deserves compensation most? If you want to measure things in pounds, shillings, euros and sacrifice then bring it on. I'm happy to match whatever you can dish out mate.
Sascha Reiff
Jun 17th 2008, 20:55
@ A Daley
You're right, you never "stated that only doctors should work for 2 years after graduation"... you said we should spend 5!
But thank God, it is not in your power to decide over my future and hold on to me with all force necessary.
I agree with C Tanti that it would be most discriminating if medical students were bound to work with the government after graduating. Is this just because they are needed? My dear, you need to pay for things you need, you cannot just make me sign a contract which makes me stay! And it's not only the money, but as a lot of others have mentioned: the structured post-grad training, prospects of career advancement, and better working conditions!
@ Jonathan camilleri
I can hardly imagine receiving 750EUR a year is enough to "swan about in their flashy cars and expensive lifestyle". If it is, tell me what I'm doing wrong!
A Daley
Jun 17th 2008, 20:48
Maltese doctors are leaving Malta to work for the NHS in UK and open surgeries as well. They earn over Stg£100,000 a year, not consultants.
This was also on the BBC news some weeks ago and stated that the Govt. actually earned more then was anticipated, because they are opening for longer hours.
The news also stated that over 97% of them are earning more then Stg£100,000. Don't forget, these are GPs, not doctors.
Our graduates are STAYING in UK and not simply specialising. If you have friends that you know, so do I, and guess what, they do not miss the sun at all.
Speak in another 4 years and tell me why we are having such a big brain drain, in all specialities. Then again, is that not why we joined the EU? Issa nispiccaw bil-Filippini, mhux hekk!
Regarding specialising abroad, well this had been happening since donkey years and you are well aware of that, so this is not something new.
What I am also aware of is the fact that due to the limited facilities at Mater Dejn we are sending more and more patients for treatment in UK Hospitals.
J Abela
Jun 17th 2008, 20:10
Apologies, 5 should read 4, below.
C Tanti
Jun 17th 2008, 20:09
Dear A. Daley,
Actually it was Maria Attard, whom you quoted, who said so. I only noticed when I had posted my comment.
As for the rest of your post, I agree with you perfectly that poor wages are a factor which spur young doctors to leave. The latest agreement seems not to have delivered the desired effect within the lower echelons of the medical profession.
Dr Frank Portelli MD FRCS(Ed)
Jun 17th 2008, 19:57
Junior Doctors are tomorrows Consultants.
We must provide Junior Doctors with a career structure locally – this is the fundamental issue. Junior Doctors leave Malta because they want to continue learning.
There is no career structure at present – young doctors are keen to advance their knowledge. We faili them by not providing the system where they can learn
They should be able to train in Malta .
This is their Country – and their place.
We want them to stay and we need to act now.
I propose that we establish a Post Graduate Medical Centre with its own Dean
This post graduate medical centre should be independent of the University and certainly independent of the present Medical Faculty at the University of Malta
it so happens the Royal College of Surgeons of Ireland, will be visiting Malta this week.
The RCSI are keen to start a graduate entry medical school in Malta as they have in 3 other countries.
I would add Post Graduate Training to the RCSIs undergraduate proposals and I am certain that the RCSI would be willing to share their expertise with us.
I see in these Junior Doctors tomorrows Consultants
Go for it Minister.
J Abela
Jun 17th 2008, 19:41
I am one of these doctors you are talking about. I consider some of the comments here as ludicrous for even suggesting that I should be ashamed of myself for pursuing higher training in the UK. There are a number of issues which I would like to raise:
1. Many doctors (me included) leave in order to recieve structured training which may be or may have been unavailable in Malta.
2. I do not see why I am supposed to pay back the country when teachers (my wife included), dentists, pharmacists, lawyers, architects, BA's, BComm's and be what may are free to do as they please without attracting the wrath of big brother.
3. Only the most senior NHS doctors earn 100K here, the rest of us make a living amidst fierce competiton...din mhix xi passiggata!
5. Let us not lose sight of the fact that most specialities in Malta offer such a high standard of care because the present providers were trained abroad in the past. I'm sure most of us here consider practising in Malta in the future. Hell, I do miss the sun especially on a day like today!
Joseph Grech-Attard
Jun 17th 2008, 19:26
Excuse me but as far as I know newly graduated doctors are still bound to spend 2 years in government service before being granted a permanent Maltese warrant. Then how is it that they are leaving before these 2 years? Are two years housemanship in a foreign country recognised for a Maltese permanent warrant? Do they have to do the two years before being granted a Maltese permanent warrant if they return with a post-graduate degree from abroad?
kcaruana
Jun 17th 2008, 18:56
I can't believe how false even MAM's figures are. Many people even of the 2006 graduates have already left with some graduates of 2007 not even taking up work in malta but leaving for greener pastures straight away. Now even more people are leaving and not only 2007 graduates but graduates from almost every year.
When will the government wake up and realise that junior doctors are the first line of reference for patients and shift rosters and show their recognition in better working conditions? Working over 30 hours at a stretch with no rest day following such a shift, working 6 days a week and if the shift falls on a sunday even 13 days in 2 weeks - who would want to stay if other countries adhere to the EU's working time directive and working conditions and also give better pay to boot???
Why should only newly graduated doctors be punished for leaving the country??? Almost all faculties suffer brain drain for lack of postgraduate training or simply better renumeration and opportunities abroad. If the medical students should be bound to work with the government for two years then so must ALL faculties.
H Formosa
Jun 17th 2008, 18:26
Junior Doctors are disappointed and that is why doctors are leaving. They were promised a lot in the last agreement and nothing much has been delivered.
Junior doctors want Structured training, protected time for training and better working conditions that make all this possible. With the current compliment in Mater Dei Hospital this is next to impossible. So it would be all in vain for the government to keep on promising as long as foreign doctors are not employed to fill in the gaps.
Juniors cannot continue working up to 100 hours a week. Something needs to be done.
D.Bonello
Jun 17th 2008, 17:12
If they leave the island they should pay the government for educating them period. Or else the governmant should start charging university students like overseas.
Peter Livingstone
Jun 17th 2008, 16:58
I think the government is being unrealistic to ask junior doctors to stay in Malta for a certain number of years post-graduation. As there is no structured post-graduate education service like there is in other European countries it is only natural that young graduates should seek careers abroad where the education and skills are offered. The government should be encouraging these individuals back post-specialist training.
J Micallef
Jun 17th 2008, 16:44
Statements like these only help to demonise doctors in the eyes of the public. Malta should be grateful to these doctors who have had the guts to leave everything behind to acquire further training abroad.
Malta has virtually never spent any money to train specialists. We have always had them for free thanks to other foreign countries’ heath service. And now we are complaining that too many of them are leaving.
Thanks to EU membership these doctors have real chances of making it to the top in other countries and they will not come back to languish in detrimental working conditions and career prospects.
Telling them and making it difficult for them to come back to Malta is not working - they are still leaving in droves. Might as well encourage them to come back once they are trained.
Jonathan Camilleri
Jun 17th 2008, 16:43
Your explanation understood Eliza Borg and your suggestion sounds right in theory.
However I do know of students who have been sent abroad to study on a scholarship, partly funded by our Government and ,at the end of their term have refused to return to honour their obligations and moreover have refused to return funds given to them for their training whilst abroad.
The whole question of' 'free education' must really be looked at very carefully and amended in light of present circumstances. Poverty as such is in a lot of cases no longer relevant. Those whose family can afford to pay for it should be made to. Personally I am sick and tired of paying tax so that students can swan about in their flashy cars and expensive lifestyle whilst being supported by our taxes and then when study is over swish off to places like the UK to earn mega pounds without giving any thing back.
This crit doesn't just apply to Medical students but to all who benefit from a state funded University education. It just happens that Medical students are the worst culprits.
A Daley
Jun 17th 2008, 15:58
My dear c.tanti, I only indicated what history tells us, and I never stated that only doctors should work for 2 years after graduation.
You would have made better sence if you asked the question to dr. eddie, not myself, darling!
While you're at it, ask dr. eddie, FEJN HUMA l-PAGI BHALL TA' BARRA?
Don't forget to mention, that an NHS doctor at a UK surgery earns over Stg£100,000 = 137,650 Euros.
In the meantime, enjoy the ride!
C Tanti
Jun 17th 2008, 15:09
A Daley: Why should it be the medical students who must be tied down with an agreement to give their services for x number of years after they graduate? Other graduates are not tied down by any form of agreement and are free to do whatever they like after they graduate, albeit having received a "free" education, just like their counterparts in the medical course.
Medical students have always left Malta to train in their preferred speciality. This is nothing new. One wonders why all the fuss now. Training opportunities in Malta, when they materialize, can never be as vast or as plentiful as they are abroad. As S. Cassar says, one should concentrate on attracting the graduates back after they have carried out their specialist training abroad, rather than hinder their departure at this early stage.
Elisa Borg
Jun 17th 2008, 15:09
You can't keep doctors here unless you offer them post graduate training.
Probably post-graduate training is not viable in Malta because there are not enough students to make it worth the while.
So ideally, we streamline the way for Maltese doctors to go study abroad and then return to Malta. For example the government can offer study packages, which culminate in return to Malta and work at Mater Dei for a minimum of 5 years. This minimum can't be imposed on doctors just after they graduate, otherwise they will not be able to specialise.
A Daley
Jun 17th 2008, 14:41
So how long will this country continue to pay to school these people so that they can then go to earn and live abroad. Isn't it about time that an agreement is struck were every graduate must work in our hospitals for a minimum of five years after graduation ?. Else they pay for their University education.
Dear Maria Attard, when Mintoff wanted the doctors to work at St,Lukes, for at least 2 years after they graduate, they were all against it, INCLUDING EDDIE and all PN.
May I now ask PN, where are the salaries bhall ta' barra? Tnellahtu anke bit-tobba. Lies, lies, lies, and more lies and deceit.
That is what this administration is all about.
No problem though, we shall soon have Philippinos doctors and nurses.
To all those that used to go to UK and say that there are as many foreign doctors as there are British, will now put up and shut up.
The difference is that while in UK there are not enough UK doctors to go round, in Malta they are leaving because PN TNELLAH BIT-TOBBA WKOLL!
We shall be asking this question over and over again.
FEJN HUMA L-PAGI BHALL TA' BARRA?
Mary Fisher
Jun 17th 2008, 14:40
I am over 60 now but over 40 years ago I won a one year scholarship to go to England to studey Education. On my return I had to work for 5 years or else if I left even if it was to get married, I had to refund all or the ratio of what the government had paid for me. I thought that was fair enough and that should stand right even now. It now sounds as if it is a free for all on the government, but it is really on their own families and friends who work and pay their taxes. Laws should be amended now.
M.Borg
Jun 17th 2008, 14:08
I agree with Mr.Gatt and Mr.Grima - the doctors especially in lower levels are exploited, they work inhuman hours with a peanuts salary and it is expected from them to give the best service. Should these conditions not be improved it is the obvious descision for these hardworking students to leave the country!
They have been promised many improvements in the last years yet none of them materialised, one just has to look at the recent opening of houseofficers were a HO is paid just above Lm6000 p.a. for a 52hour week! Who would stay in Malta after 5 years of studying like hell?? Come on and let's get real!
Maria Attard
Jun 17th 2008, 12:55
So how long will this country continue to pay to school these people so that they can then go to earn and live abroad. Isn't it about time that an agreement is struck were every graduate must work in our hospitals for a minimum of five years after graduation ?. Else they pay for their University education.
How long must these people bleed this Island dry?. Is't it time that they gave something back to the community ?. Anything else is theft by any other name.
Jack Skelt
Jun 17th 2008, 12:20
These doctors should refund all the money the government spent to educate them. The money came from taxes coming from people from all classes even the very lower class. Ready to pay taxes so one day these students will be contributing back to the country. If they don’t contribute back they should pay back all the money plus interest and should even be considered harsher measures. We just cannot just pay from our hard labour so these students go abroad and be contributing to another foreign country which did not dish out a penny on them (from the day they were born till their graduation these students - and not only doctors, are being taken care of from the tax payers money hoping that one they will return the favour).
Authorities please take note, we are fed up of paying taxes to bring up young intellectuals that will serve other countries for free.
laurence schembri
Jun 17th 2008, 11:48
@ S. Cassar
I am sorry I completely disagree with your reasoning. These graduates have had free education plus stipends coming from our hard earned taxes, the least the government can do is to tie them-up to at least two years of hospital service, they are still young enough to venture abroad after giving back a little of what they`ve got for free, once they taste the freedom and salaries of what they can earn abroad they will not return.
The way thing are going is, that our University is churning out good professional men and women for other countries benefits. Is this fair?
R Farrugia
Jun 17th 2008, 11:41
Truly alarming! I have news for MAM - even their figures are deceptively optimistic.
Few people might know that the doctor treating them might have been at work from the morning of the previous day, without a wink of sleep. Shifts of 30 hours and working weeks of over 95 hours are by no means rare at Mater Dei, indeed they are the norm.
Maltese doctors are sponsoring the health service by accepting a measly pay. Who else would accept to work a day - night - then a day again only to return to work again the next morning without even being paid a cent overtime (unless 50 hours are exceeded)!
Leah Gatt
Jun 17th 2008, 11:28
why is the government being so stingy when it comes to issues of health? doctors in Malta are overworked and under paid. of course they leave. many of the best do not bother staying. its high time that they are paid more, a token of appreciation for the important work they do.
if you had a serious health problem, would you like to have a doctor who has been working 100 hours a week and is being paid peanuts? personally i wouldn't.
its high time something is done about this issue.
F X Grima
Jun 17th 2008, 11:18
It is truly alarming, to say the least, knowing the level of work and responsibilities which medical staff, particulary at the lower level of the medical ladder, have to face daily at the hospital and polyclinics. Besides providing alarming news, MAM should primarily do its best to safeguard the interests of young medical graduates and doctors and not seek the interests of the higher ups. It is also understood that there is a dire need for higher levels of management practices and professionality within certain areas. This impacts negatively on young medical staff and does not help to encourage them not to seek better pastures.
As MAM rightly says, the efforts of both the Minister and PS (Health) are commendable but every effort should be made to introduce the required structures without further delay in order to curb the outflow of our young crop of doctors. Malta and the taxpayer have invested a lot to ensure the availability of medical staff for our needs and the efforts of everyone are required to retain this expertise here.
S Cassar
Jun 17th 2008, 11:02
One cannot keep ambitious doctors from leaving the country. Training opportunities are much better and established abroad. One can only encourage them to come back once they are trained by removing the current obstacles and setting favourable conditions.