110 migrants arrive within 12 hours

Corinne Vella

Jun 24th 2008, 00:09

Raymond Sammut: I am categorically opposed to being bossed about by incoherent obsessives, particularly ones who can't string a coherent argument together and who refer to themselves alternatively in the singular and in the plural.

Like I said earlier, my honesty or lack of it (or absence, since you think that is a third possibility) is not relevant to this discussion.

Raymond Sammut

Jun 23rd 2008, 13:41

You still cannot get yourself to say it: "I am categorically opposed to illegal trafficking perpetrated by human traffickers". Nowhere do you say it or imply it in any way, even though people have been drowning for several years between Libya and Europe as a result of this trafficking. It is now becoming very clear that you will never say it, and instead you will keep lecturing us about the obvious, such as, for example, that not all illegal immigrants are coming to Malta. It's not the lack of it, but the absence. You are clearly and deliberately omitting the only fact that truly matters. There is absolutely nothing "proverbial" about this fact, and the more you choose to omit it, the more you show that you are being dishonest.

Corinne Vella

Jun 22nd 2008, 23:37

Raymond Sammut: There's no need to work yourself up into a froth of indigation. My honesty - or lack of it, as you suggest - is not the issue here and is irrelevant to the statement of facts to which you apparently have an aversion.

You asked what I mean by "implications". You haven't read to the end of my comment, so here's the last sentence again: "Were my words enough to make the situation happen, why are yours insufficient to turn the proverbial tide?"

Raymond Sammut

Jun 20th 2008, 14:37

Corinne Vella: What do you mean by "implications"? Nowhere do you make yourself clear on being categorically opposed to illegal immigration.

No point in claiming that "the situation is not of [your] making". It is obvious that the situation is not of your making. But that does not mean that your stance does not motivate traffickers, and hence is conducive -- even if not deliberately -- to the situation in which people are drowning. Why can't you stop stating the obvious? You should instead make yourself clear and state unequivocally that you are categorically opposed to illegal immigration perpetrated by human traffickers. Say it if you are honest. If you cannot get yourself to say it, then how can anyone believe that you are being honest? Nowhere have you been able to say it. Instead you keep attacking everyone who have been saying it. Of course I consider the implications of what I say. I also consider the implications of what you say and more importantly of what you don't say. Hence I challenge you to say it: "I am categorically opposed to illegal trafficking perpetrated by human traffickers". Say it if you are honest.

Corinne Vella

Jun 19th 2008, 16:49

Raymond Sammut: You are making a rather wild accusation and confusing several issues in the process. I am not a law maker nor am I a policy maker, much less someone who abets illegal traffic or is in a position to allow thousands of people to drown. Please consider the implications of what you are saying. Were my words enough to make the situation happen, why are yours insufficient to turn the proverbial tide?

Corinne Vella

Jun 19th 2008, 16:42

Joe Gatt: The alternative to the current policy of rescue at sea is to let people drown. That may not be what you wish to say, but that is the situation we are facing. In the circumstances, it is useless to bicker about numbers and it is particularly pointless to pick an argument with me as the situation is not of my making.

Raymond Sammut

Jun 18th 2008, 11:40

It is very hard to see how Ms Vella's position can be tenable. If she could establish communication channels with human traffickers and persuade them to stop their illegal activity, then yes, she may start to sound credible. Otherwise, with her fallacious arguments, she is in effect abetting this illegal traffic. She keeps presenting us with what she calls "facts". One hard cold fact is that her stance is conducive to several thousands of people drowning after they had surrendered their savings to human traffickers. The reason why I direct this accusation at her is this. If there were a genuine desire on the part of EU governments to help Sub-Saharan Africans, then they would establish proper procedure for these people to come and work in EU countries through legal channels. Instead, these governments want to keep dabbling with what they call "asylum processing" which is utterly anachronistic and ineffective under prevailing African conditions. For example, why Libya is not a member of the 1951 Convention, and hence exempt from asylum processing and indirectly facilitating the illegal activity of traffickers? As it is, Libya becomes the source, Malta the sink, with people drowning in between.

Joe Gatt

Jun 17th 2008, 16:26

@Corinne Vella

Like all other liberals who defend illegal immigrants you avoid answering the million dollar question. How many illegal immigrants do you think Malta should accept before taking strong measures to call a complete halt to the invasion?

As for your comments about immigration from Africa, it is obvious that Malta isn't receiving the bulk of the illegals. However, in relation to our population we are getting a large number equivalent to more than half the number of children born. And this is happening year in year out, with no end in sight -- indeed with the numbers increasing.

To get an idea of the tsunami heading our (and Europe's) way, I suggest you look at UN population projections for sub-Saharan Africa. From 180m in 1950 population grew to 807m in 2007 and is projected to grow to 1308m in 2030. That's another 501m in 23 years, more than the population of the entire EU today! And this in a continent unable to feed its current population.

If that's not an existential threat, I don't know what is.

Corinne Vella

Jun 16th 2008, 22:28

Joe Gatt: Read my comment again. It states facts in response to Emanuel Agius's concerns.

Joe Gatt

Jun 16th 2008, 15:01

@Corinne Vella

People may have a right to leave their country, but they certainly do not have a right to enter other countries illegally.

You seem to be one of those people who put illegal immigrants before your fellow Maltese. You seem to think that because these people come from a failed continent, we should open our borders and let them all in -- which is actually what our politicians are doing.

Dear Ms Vella, will you please tell us how many illegals Malta should accept -- or is there to be no limit?

Corinne Vella

Jun 16th 2008, 14:40

Emanuel Agius: "..all africa can come over to europe. Malta being the first step to europe. then it means that 500,000,000 people are destined to be immigrants in malta in the next couple of years." A few established facts could allay your unfounded fear:

Not all the people in Africa are trying to leave home.

Immigrants arriving in Malta are not only from African countries - Malta is (in)famously a place where human trafficking is more likely to mean women used as sex slaves, only we don't get to see the photos in our newspapers.

Malta is not "the first step to Europe" - that impression is the result of following only Malta-centred news reports in Maltese media.

Not all immigrants from African countries are headed for Malta - Spain, France, Italy, and Greece are also in Europe and also receive emigrants. Several emigrants from African countries do not head for Europe at all.

As to why people are leaving and whether they have a right to leave, you might wish to review the several articles that have been published in this paper and others in Malta. Alternatively, contact one of the several organisations that are involved with immigrants.

Joe Gatt

Jun 16th 2008, 14:17

This was all so predicatable.

Italy has toughened it's stance thereby discouraging illegal immigrants from going there. Malta, on the other hand, not only refuses to criminalise illegal immigration (our prime minister thinks it's wrong), but parliament has just passed legislation making the granting of refugee and humanitarian status much easier. Both parties cooperated in this latest betrayal of the Maltese people.

Obviously, the illegal immigrants are now making a beeline for Malta -- via its tuna pens! We'll be lucky if we get as few as 2500 illegals this year, unless the government reverses its policy at once..

However, it won't happen, because for our politicians, the Maltese people come last.

F J Brincat

Jun 16th 2008, 13:16

You ask where FRONTEX is? Our Armed Forces are FRONTEX.

It is up to the local authorities, in conjunction with any well wishing country in the Mediterranean, to protect our borders and seeing that well wishing countries are few and far between (north African and European included), I guess it is up to our local authorities then.

J Falzon

Jun 16th 2008, 12:17

I can understand taking care of the ones who make it here.

What I absolutely cannot understand is actually going out of one's way to locate and intercept the immigrants - who are normally on their way to italy in the first place.

However even if, for charitiable reasons, we feel we must assist, can't we just pass on fuel, supplies and medical care and then let the immigrants proceed on their way to the real land of opportunity which can surely absorb them without a problem i.e. Mainland Europe ?

Also, I believe it is about time that a daily updated figure for the total number of illegal immigrants in Malta be included in the news. After all this is in many ways a matter of national interest and certainly a topical subject.

Emanuel Agius

Jun 16th 2008, 11:54

It's Raining, water is coming down from a crack in the roof. How would you solv the problem?

1. Clean the floor from water every now and then?
2. Put a bucket to collect the water?
3. Wait for the rain to stop and fix the roof?

The same problem is with immigrants. we have a crack in the roof which is Libya. Right now we are using the bucket method. basically we wait for drops to fill the bucket ( drops are boats with imigrants) when the bucket is full what shall we do? I think the problem goes far beyond Libya. The main problem is in the country of origin. Why are these people leaving? do they have the right to leave? and if they have the right to leave? then it means that all africa can come over to europe. Malta being the first step to europe. then it means that 500,000,000 people are destined to be immigrants in malta in the next couple of years.

am i right or wrong?

Mary Fisher

Jun 16th 2008, 11:53

When is this going to end and what is being done about it? The Church in the Vatican tells us that we are awful, the EU tells us that we are not treating them right, what the heck does one do? It is a very difficult situation but gradually, the number of immigrants is going to surpass the number of Maltese citizens. The size of Malta cannot take it even if we are paid to take them, let alone let the Maltese taxpayer pay for them. The ball is in your court Dr. Carm.

emanuel cortis

Jun 16th 2008, 11:37

FRONTEX ? The joke of the milenium !!
I believe that government should put down its feet and , while it still can, use the VETO to stop this invasion. "You either help by taking your ex-colonial "citizens", or else we'll block future progress". Come on, others did threaten and got what they were demanding. Why can't we ? After all we claim to be equal, with the same powers, etc.
Hats off to the proud Irish, who showed everyone the power of the people. The powers that be in Brussels should show their true democratic credentials and allow Europeans to vote and approve or otherwise whenever important decisions about the future of Europe need to be implemented. Why should faceless bureaucrats rule our lives ??

Alex Spiteri

Jun 16th 2008, 11:31

Most of you moaning around here, were celebrating PN's victory last march and If you weren't in the lucky winning lot, you were crying for MLP's other loss. You didn't protest for your party's silence on the issue during the election campaign. You supported such silence with your vote. And most of you laughed at the few who dared to discuss the issue. Typical Maltese, after five years of moaning we endup to giving the vote again to MLPN!

Now that the carnival is over...the moaning starts again!

VIVA MALTA!

a.dalli

Jun 16th 2008, 10:55

Some years back when Malta was still negotiating EU accession (or should I say granted a walkover) I was practically ridiculed for stating that Malta would become a first border.

Andrew Gatt

Jun 16th 2008, 10:52

The EU's priorities sure leave much to be desired! Every bleeding heart, tree-hugger and environmentalist has worked unceasingly to renege on an understanding and to ban Sping Hunting. If only those faceless bureaucrats in their ivory towers in Brussels dedicated even a fraction of their effort and attention to the REAL spring migration, we would be discussing human beings and not a few game birds!

Some club this is! A few dozen activists and anti-hunting extremists seem to have more clout and lobbying power that Governments!!! Where is Frontex? What are they doing? Why are only a few nations even participating??? Not only have we been abandoned, but those sanctimonious prats in Brussels have the gall and cheek to take Malta to task for the conditions here, the detention polict etc. etc.

Malcolm Seych994ell

Jun 16th 2008, 10:43

Dr Carm should be ashamed of himself. Instead of solving the problem he is happy that he is prepared to receive 2000 plus immigrants.

Shame

joseph zammit

Jun 16th 2008, 10:34

The goverment HAS to take some serious actions before this gets out of hand. I am not happy at all seeing my taxes being wasted on such an illegality while others are just getting monies into their pockets. What about Frontex? Is it still out there?

Joseph Chetcuti

Jun 16th 2008, 10:30

Where is FRONTEX. Is it a deterent or not. I think this is all BLUFF by the EU and we are being left to fend for ourselves. When is it going to end?

Joseph Galea

Jun 16th 2008, 10:02

Does anyone get a feeling that Malta is on it's own in this matter?

Louise Vella

Jun 16th 2008, 09:43

The invasion goes on. Instead of stopping it, the Government helps them come in. Dr Carmelo Mifsud Bonnici says he has preparations to take even more than 2000 illegal immigrants this year. Congratulations Dr Carm!