UPDATED: 84 migrants to be brought to Malta

Corinne Vella

Jun 22nd 2008, 23:44

M. Mercieca: I was not aware that we are living in the Empire of Malta. Thank you for enlightening me. If I may, I would like to return the compliment and invite you to do a little research of your own. Please look up 'enlightenment' and the meaning of 'separation of church and state.

R. Buttigieg

Jun 18th 2008, 07:40

Well This comment is to ALL.

1. This is not a religious issue. The problem is coming from countries where values and ethics are not the same as ours. This meaning that we find it harder to get used to what their needs are.

2. The "Illegal migrants" are humans just as you and me. This meaning that they have all the rights as you and me to have food and to breath. It is unfair to objectify and look at these people as objects as if they were rubber dolls. They risk in order to escape from their countries.

3. I must say that it is rather stupid to say that this is a local political issue, as some of you indicated. Please stop trying to influence badly the people who lack knowledge. You all know better than me that this is an EU problem and no matter who is in power, this will remain visible.

4. things are to be changed but in the right way...employing these people to do public works in return of their food and living space.

William Carr

Jun 18th 2008, 07:05

@Adrian Tabone
Both yourself and M. Mercieca are right. You were a bit diplomatic but the guy was straight forward and pushed a good button. As a matter of fact I agree with all what he said. But here we should not think that all illegal immigrants are Muslims. The majority comes from Christian countries all around Africa mind you

M. Mercieca

Jun 18th 2008, 03:37

@Corinne Vella
Just in case you think my historical facts on how Empires collapse are ‘shaky’, think again. Or re-check your resources please.
To start with, could you define what an Empire is?

Corinne Vella

Jun 17th 2008, 12:59

Michael Attard: M. Mercieca has is not aware of the enlightenment concept of a separation of powers between church and state. That is not surprising. His grasp of historical fact is a little shaky.

Corinne Vella

Jun 17th 2008, 12:01

Andrew Gatt: I sent this message yesterday, but it has not been uploaded yet:
To get to another country, I do not need to be abandoned on a Tuna pen and risk drowing. As a citizen of Malta, neither do you.

Michael Attard

Jun 17th 2008, 09:57

What is M Mercieca ranting about?

The value you are attributing to islam are the same that Christianity asks people to follow. Just because muslims in their countries are forced to follow them, it does not mean that muslims are better at obeying their religion. Thank God Europe is at a stage where live and let live is widely practiced. If a 13-14yr old has sex and drinks alcohol, it has nothing to do with religion!!

Corinne Vella

Jun 16th 2008, 22:31

Andrew Gatt: I do not need to be dumped on a tuna pen at the mercy of the elements and in the hope of being rescued to be able to enter another country. Neither do you.

Adrian Tabone

Jun 16th 2008, 22:00

@M. Mercieca

What you have said is absolutely right. But my point is this, if Gaddafi's wish is to see Europe as Islam, why would he help stop illegal immigrants coming here? In your comment you just discussed the values of muslim religion vs the values of christian religion... but what does that have to do with the problem ? For me all Maltese ppl can become Muslim, I do not care and it does not affect me as long as human rights and dignity are respected.

For Gaddafi illegal immigration is a boost to his wish of seeing Europe as Islam. That is why I am mixing religion and not because I see religion as the problem.

g.c.forte

Jun 16th 2008, 20:41

We are doing all this big fuss for nothing.As from next year we will be crying for these people,are you forgetting that next year we start needing thousands of workers to work at the famous Smart City, so in my humble opinion we should start teaching them our language and the i.t. I wish to ask," What are we doing with their boats ?" because I believe that we are going to need them. p.s The lovely girls coming from Russia,Ukraine Bulgaria ect..ect..are they learning english or something else. Are these illegal emigrants.? we never argue about this matter, we christians.

Shaun Camilleri

Jun 16th 2008, 19:38

For all of you who are asking for help

exactly 3months and 8 days ago you people had a choice.And you opted for gonzi's sweet speeches. Haven't you ever heard that the wolf changes his fur but never his vices?

So much for having a pair of strong arms to guide the boat in the storm!

and so much for judging him by his actions......"ohh im sorry EU people sitting there in brussels. I will sign the allocated search and rescue zone papers no questions asked. And whenever there are any illegal immigrants from Africa I'll send out patrol to save them. Then I'll contract one of the best caterers on the island so they will be fed three times a day, give them cigarettes and telephone cards[to phone home - network marketing]

Then I'll leave the electorate grumbling, while paying more taxes...and then come round next election and I'll make some other sweet speeches to convince the [brainless] voters to vote me back again to office.

Great thinking lawrence...keep it up!

Andrew Gatt

Jun 16th 2008, 17:28

@ Corinne Vella.........OK, so what's your solution, then??

And -by the way - perhaps you'd like to try entering another foreign country in this manner. I'm sure you'd be given a verrrryyyy warm reception, welcomed with open arms, housed and fed, etc etc.

Yeah, right. And pigs fly, too.

Charles Sammut

Jun 16th 2008, 16:31

@ Steve Grech - "Someone PLEASE solve this huge PROBLEM"

The people are happy with the situation otherwise they would have voted for those parties which took a stand on this issue. Malta has the Government and opposition it truly deserves. Please don't winge now, you blew your chance.

The Italians, on the other hand, did something about it.

M. Mercieca

Jun 16th 2008, 16:08

@Adrian Tabone

Islam in Europe

Continuation: 3of 3
Islam in Europe
In Europe we take religion lightly and this is our problem. Some may say religion is a fundamental human right choice. Okay in fact it is. But do you think any group of people can live without a religion? Any religion? Even adding a deity to a stone? This is only happening in Europe where you find no reference of God is mentioned in the European constitutions. If you read history you notice, lack of morality and religion values were the prime reason behind the collapse of all empires. None Muslims don’t understand this fact but Muslims does.

M. Mercieca

Jun 16th 2008, 16:06

@Adrian Tabone

Islam in Europe

Continuation: 2of 3
Islam in Europe
I am sure Jesus is not happy to see 99.9 of his follower females having sex at the age of 13 or 14 years. Jesus is not happy either to see 25 - 30 % of Christian born babies are either of unknown fathers or out of wed-lock. Islam forbids sex out of wed-lock.

Usury – the spread of usury in Europe has very bad affect on both social and financial organization s. That why Islamic Banks are increasing all over Europe and the west in general.
I can carry on and on….
As you can see Islam will increase to solve moral-related problems in Europe.
Now – whom you blame? Islam? Muslims?
Rests assure, you may not find queues of Christians heading to Muslims mosques to convert at the hand of a Muslim Immam. You may also never see a Muslim asking a Christen to convert at a gun-point. But you would certainly see a great shift in today’s laws that would change dramatically to fit into Islamic values or laws.

M. Mercieca

Jun 16th 2008, 16:05

@Adrian Tabone

Islam in Europe

Why we turn a debate on illegal immigrants into religion? This is number one confusion.
What Libyan Presidents is saying holds account. (In my opinion)
Yes, you may eventually see a lot of Muslims in Europe – But do we really have to be worried?. If we observe our Christianity and Christian values we should not. But are we? This is our problem not Muslims problems.

Islam may spread in Europe, not necessarily as a religion but as values. Islam values would spread in Europe as a necessity to solve lack of morality related problems. Please let me explain few examples:

Alcoholic and drinking problems: Governments can not any longer spend money to cure alcoholic related problems. We may soon have laws (in Europe) to prevent producing alcoholic. Same like what is happening now with cigarettes and drugs. And this exactly Islamic values.

Social problem: Do you know how many babies we (In Europe) have out of wed-lock? How much European governments fork on social benefits for single mothers?

To be continued:

gaffarena joseph

Jun 16th 2008, 12:12

BLA BLA BLA. we want action,this is a matter that we want to settle right away, like the australian govt, did.
It is useless to talk and talk, and they keep on invading us.
We are going to get no positive results from our mep,s,
we want a national front, and in a peacefull way we will tell our authorities to scrap the eu,ruling about this matter and save his people from this disaster.

Corinne Vella

Jun 16th 2008, 12:04

J borg / Victor Pulis: Maybe a tuna pen could be your next summer holiday destination. You're under the impression that it's some sort of luxury trip with a free ride home at the end.

Ian Sammut Dacoutros

Jun 16th 2008, 10:47

Just a couple of points please.

1. It does not matter who voted for whom - these PEOPLE would still be coming just the same. This is a situation that is at a higher level than votes, it is one where we ALL need to be united and all work for the same goal.

2. The problem is that our territorial waters are the way that they are and the first point of call into European territory is Malta.

3. The real problem is that these people who ultimately do not want to be in Malta (they want to go to mainland Europe) are locked up for 18 months in a detention center that is literally a hole. Where they are not educated or anything in anyway - 18 months to become brain dead in conditions that would make prison seem like a hotel people! It is that bad!

We need to change the whole system!!! Evidently it is not working!!!

Steve Grech

Jun 16th 2008, 10:23

Someone PLEASE solve this huge PROBLEM

Frank Pisani

Jun 16th 2008, 09:04

I don't know if there ever was a study about how the majority of Maltese people feel and think about these illegal immigrants. One might find an excuse and say that by casting our vote in the last general election we have decided on our future (re this issue) for at least the next five years. I totally disagree. PN AND MLP shared the same views and none of them had a solution for this catastropy. The electorate chose the best from the worst, as he had no other valid choice. I'd love to see what's going to happen in the next E U MP Election. Hopefully some one who shares the same views as Norman Lowell but not as extreme,as he is, will contest the post. I'M sure that the Maltese electorate will vote for him, as the situation is getting out of control and we all had enough of them. The truth of the matter is that very few of us Maltese want these immigrants here, the rest are scared to speak. Lets do something about it before its too late

Signed: A Maltese Citizen in dispair. HELP !! HELP !!

Angelo Borg

Jun 16th 2008, 08:34

Guys - the fact is, we cannot do anything, we have to rescue every soul that is in need of rescue within our SAR area. Our SAR is huge, mega huge. There are political arguments as to why this should remain in size as it presently is. Even if all africa floated in are SAR, we cannot abondon any person, due to moral and legal obligations.
The problem is as some have already mentioned is that Libya is not doing enough to block the Africans from crossing. Libya is willing that some of its brothers die in the process. Their aim, as said by Gadaffi is to Muslimize Europe. We I think that Gadaffi does not know that the Roman Catholic religion is growing very fast in Africa. You never know Mr. President, you might end up baptised soon. Jokes and silliness apart. Libya has international obligations which it is not ahering to. why let people die trying to cross to Europe when you can make a REAL effort to stop them ? Is it really true that Europe has to pay money ? MORAL OBLIGATIONS!

Adrian Tabone

Jun 16th 2008, 00:32

Agreed with Marcel. This is what the people have voted for. One of the sources of the problem is Libyan leader Gaddafi

2006-09-13 : Libyan dictator Muammar al-Gaddafi says Europe should pay if it wants to stop the flow of African immigrants. Last week Gaddafi told a meeting of the African Union (AU): “In our final statement we will ask Europe to pay 10 billion euros per year if it really wants to stop migration toward Europe [...] Earth belongs to everybody. Why they [young Africans] emigrated to Europe – this should be answered by Europeans.”
----
2006-05-02 - "We have 50 million Muslims in Europe," Gadhafi said. "There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe – without swords, without guns, without conquests. The 50 million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades." If Turkey is added to the European Union, the Libyan leader said, Europe will have another 50 million Muslims.
------

As you can see from these 2 statements by Gaddafi, illegal immigration cannot be beaten easily because it's part of a bigger plan,which unfortunately few people realize. Migrants leave from Libya

g.c.forte

Jun 15th 2008, 22:00

@cedric busuttil........with all the respect cedric. The only person who spoke and gave his honest opinion on this matter was Dr. Sant in parliament ,and hell broke lose.Another member of the Labour Party who got a good argument is Dr.Gorg Vella ,when he said that we should use the VETO if the E.U keep ignore us. I wish to remind all that this unfortunate humans are coming from countries that were ruled by countries of the E.U.

Sandro Pace

Jun 15th 2008, 21:50

What is naive is expecting the government to do something, without the pressure of the vote.
One can talk and talk forever. It will do nothing, except telling us the usual things that this is a 'complex issue, we have the legal and moral obligation of doing this and that etc etc. etc.'.

There is only one stark reality. If this rate persist, and things run out of hand, either the government abduct its international responsabilities with regards to this problem, or else we should be resigned to be demographically colonised and invaded at the mercy of traffickers and whichever neighbor government is supporting them, wanting to destabilise us. These facts are undeniable, and one would be fooling himself thinking of other options.

In the latter case, it would be without my consent as a citizen of Malta. The only victims are the Maltese. Its also unfair on future Maltese children.

Malcolm Seychell

Jun 15th 2008, 21:45

@ F Camilleri

I was a candidate for AN. In Italy things are changing, thanks to the center right wing government.

Malta has a serious problem.

The PN party under Gonzi went completely to the left(Minister Cristina, Karm Mifsud Bonnici, Gonzi himself to mention few) and today the PN can be considered as a socialist party. So today we have 3 left wing parties and only AN can be considered as center Right Party.

We have to thank god there are still some right wing people in the PN administration, and those are the people who again managed to get the PN to win the election.

If it wasn't for people like Austin Gatt, who brought new investment and created work, and John Dalli who critisized the government for months because he is not listening to the people probably toda we will have Sant as Prime Minister/

Today I read what Minister Karm Mifsud Bonnici has to say about this problem. He said Malta is prepared to take 2000 immigrants this year and even more if needed.

If this is the vision of how he intends to solve the problem then we can start preparing ourselves to leave Malta

F. Camilleri

Jun 15th 2008, 21:45

AN APPEAL to Dr Gonzi and Dr Muscat:
Please do something to safeguard our country. Be bold and present a common front. The vast majority of the Maltese are behind you. Both of you are duty-bound to safeguard the sovereignty of our country.

The present situation cannot go on. As a republic, we have the right and duty to determine the destiny of our country. So far, both government and opposition seem to lack the guts to take serious measures to prevent this increasing influx. The House seems to be afraid of Europe and Europe does not care as long as we are 'yes' men.

A case in point is referring to illegal immigrants as ‘irregular’ immigrants. Illegal immigrants are breaking the law knowingly and wilfully; they cannot therefore be referred to as 'irregular immigrants' as they are repeatedly referred to in parliament from both sides of the House.

victor pulis

Jun 15th 2008, 21:44

where is frontex??? the situation was supposed to improve with the introduction of frontex but the reverse is the result. the new procedure now is to transfer the immigrants from their boat to a conveniently placed tuna pen and radio the AFM to go and pick them up. the pens have become a sort of transit station into malta. when is libya going to be held to account in this charade? unless this country is made to shoulder its international responsibilities the situation will continue to degenerate to the detriment of malta.

Amanda Mallia

Jun 15th 2008, 21:37

Marcel Dingli - You said "You voted for this, so now enjoy it"

Would voting for any other party have solved the matter? The problem would still remain the same. Unless, of course, a certain Mr Lowell would have his way.

Ivan Attard

Jun 15th 2008, 20:46

It's easy for us to blame the weak and the defenceless. Why we don't blame those who are exploiting their desperate situation to make money? Do you think they know that Malta exists? I have my doubts.
We are blaming the wrong persons. They are just victims of exploitation.
The governments and those who are responsible should take action against traffickers.

F. Camilleri

Jun 15th 2008, 20:33

@ Marcel Dingli
Your comment is rather intolerable. It reinforces the arguments below.

You should join forces with the Maltese people if you REALLY care for the good and well being of our country.

Perhaps you are angry because most people like myself did not vote to AN.

Maltese voters are not so naïve. The electoral promise of the AN re illegal immigration was simply a bait which even the average intelligent voter could see through.

I suggest you have at least a cursory honest look to the team the AN presented to the Maltese voters in the last election.

How credible, prepared and qualified did the vast majority look? The answer is obvious.

Cedric Busuttil

Jun 15th 2008, 20:30

@g.c.forte. No matter what the majority decision would have been, we still would have had this situation. This is all about business and making good money. To make the picture a bit more clear for you, this is orgnaized criminalization. And I don't think that these organized cells really bother if we are in eu or not, if pn or mlp or an are leading etc etc etc. Can you get it?

Sandro Pace

Jun 15th 2008, 20:13

This invasion is happening by a clear abuse of compassion, and the rest.

Mr Catania, I understand you, but it's not that passports, Maltese ones if you are referring to those, can be issued just like cheesecakes. The bearer of a Maltese passport is a Maltese citizen to begin with, and Maltese citizens they are not. It will expose our passport to ridicule, will backfire on genuine Maltese passport holders abroad, and they can still be sent back again here with a Maltese passport, hence Maltese citizens hence with political rights.

victor pulis

Jun 15th 2008, 19:43

The magic number yet again. how come the number of immgrants is invariably 28? are we so naive as to think this is a coincidence? this is new tactic employed by whoever is transporting them to malta. they know that by clinging to a tuna pen their chances of being picked up by a maltese patrol boat are very good. meanwhile Gaddafi laughs his way through all of this. Frontex is non existant and the EU couldn't care less.

g.c.forte

Jun 15th 2008, 19:35

@ Marcel Dingli... I agree 100% with you..................well said..... and the rest please stop groaning because now those thousands of voters who came to Malta just to vote P.N. will look at us as groaning people.

Cedric Busuttil

Jun 15th 2008, 19:22

What a coincidence!!! Tuna divers usually do not go out there on Sundays. It is their only day off (in most of the cases). I know it. I am a diver! June 8th and June 15th. Aren't these 2 days Sundays??
I can't solve this out. Can anyone help me please! Im not as good in mathematics. If I solve this out then maybe I can go a step further and work out the sum of 1 + 1.

j borg

Jun 15th 2008, 18:33

Tuna pens are the safest way to get to Malta...stop by one of them cling to it for a few hours...the captian of the mooring boat will not let you on the boat but the maltese soldiers will get to you in a few hours...viola' ...and you have landed in the EU!! where are the frontex boats in the area?...far away...

Denis Catania

Jun 15th 2008, 18:22

Give them passport , airline ticket and(100 euro's) with the agreement that they continue their quest for a better life. These poor people don't want to get stuck in such a small place.One reader quoted yesterday they don't speak Maltese. If they speak English, send them to England. If they speak French send them to France and so on. If he speaks Maltese give him some options(none of them speak Maltese.)These decisions has to be made with the migrant himself. I think the migrants will like this idea. In 2007 about 1700 migrants came in 1700 X 100 Euros=170000 plus airline tickets.I think it would be cheaper than housing, I also feel it's more humane and also better for thier future and the future of Malta.Let's put the shores on the rest of the European countries. Good idea or not??

Marcel Dingli

Jun 15th 2008, 17:50

Well people, you were warned. You voted for this, so now enjoy it !!!

Andrew Scicluna

Jun 15th 2008, 17:49

How about setting up a few solar powered units which operate CCTVs around the pens? These will tell us what really goes on there.

N. Camilleri

Jun 15th 2008, 17:09

What's this?? all the migrants boats seem to be capsizing around the Malta tuna pens.!!