Migrants land at Golden Bay

Ben grech

Jun 4th 2008, 11:24

@Kamal. I don t think the EU population deficit should be solved through immigration, least of illegal immigration. Are you saying that we should continue to have less children? Over hundreds of years that would result in ultimately our own self inflicted genocide. The issue of population balance should be addressed within the EU through studies aimed at determining the reasons why Europeans are choosing not to propagate.

Kamal Awad

Jun 1st 2008, 17:05

Dear Mr. I. M. Dingli
This is my last post here-Should you be still interested to continue, I will be where immigrants are discussed. You welcome.
Mr. Raymond Sammut rightly asked us to read. What we read and how we comprehend, this is our choice. One definite fact is: TAKE –AWAY reading leads no where.
If one’s brain is tuned to only accept fictions, this is a dilemma. Then I would kindly ask Prof. Edward Debono to interfere for an urgent fix - I am pretty sure he would solve our 400 000 problems in one hour. (Who said we only have immigrants’ problem?)
Please if you know Prof. Edward Debono’ or his where about send him S.O.S message (smile)
Mr. Raymond Sammut
A government up to all people expectations does not exist. (I) think the government is handling this situation perfectly in harmony with EU population deficit

Raymond Sammut

Jun 1st 2008, 14:09

What I am trying to get across to the Maltese government is something which may already be swimming in Dr Gonzi’s head. The 1951 Convention was originally targeted at potential refugees from the ex-Eastern Block, two years before Stalin’s death, and ten years before the erection of the Berlin Wall. This cold-war drama is now old hat, and this document is totally defunct. Sir Green advised ex-PM Tony Blair to pull out, at least temporarily. Blair didn’t listen, with grave consequences to the UK. Britain today has lost count, and could have up to a million illegal immigrants, and still growing. I do not want the Maltese government to do the same, wasting precious time and resources on never ending and ineffective asylum processing. Malta needs to establish bi-lateral diplomatic contacts with countries of origin, with the aim of establishing agreements on due and gradual repatriation. As it is, the Maltese government is trapped in a bottomless pit, from which it may never come out. Meanwhile, trafficked people continue to appear on our shores sporadically. Maltese citizens, who cannot ignore the problem, are increasingly and justifiably getting worried, not knowing how this issue will end, if it will ever end.

I. M. Dingli

Jun 1st 2008, 11:01

Kamal Kamal Kamal….. you are such a funny guy…. I read what Mr. Sammut posted and I’m sorry to disappoint you but he shares my views since the articles which he pointed out written by Sir Andrew Green are in fact illustrating the exact worries of myself and my fellow Maltese citizens. Did you actually take some time to read these articles? I doubt it based on your latest comment.

And Mr. Forte too is pointing out my same views.

Mr. Kamal, do us a favour and stop all this blasphemy!! My I ask whether you are actually a Maltese citizen since your name or alias is quite misleading. As for me, I’m a pure Maltese citizen for your info.

Kamal Awad

May 31st 2008, 16:07

Raymond Sammut
Dear Mr. I. M. Dingli

Please have a profound look at what Mr. Raymond Sammut posted (somewhere in this pages. He is in the right direction.
Imagine if illegal immigrants were investors- and they fall on us on private Jets not boats? Will the situation be different? If you say yes – Here I suggest you read what Mr. Vladmir C Forte posted (also in this page)
Thank you

I. M. Dingli

May 31st 2008, 12:58

Mr. Awad.... what are you saying?

What is your question regards the hypothetical Italian Smart city and the legal Romanians?

If by mistake you were actually referring to the Roms with whom Italy has a lot of issues, please note that when the Italian government opens discussions with the Romanian government, the latter, always refuses the repatriation of these so called Roms since the government doesn’t recognise them as Romanian citizens. They are just gypsies who nobody wants them since they just bring problems along side with them as a luggage!!

Kamal Awad

May 31st 2008, 01:58

@ Mr. Vladmir C Forte,

Smart City + any thing else

You rightly think or prefer ‘ Within-EU’ investment is better. Okay – no problem with that at. I fully agree with on this.

BUT…
You may also agree with me also that - the prime target from any foreign investment is to creates more jobs – attracting new opportunities - right? New jobs means man power- mean peoples – agreed?

What if..

An Italian - based Smart City requires man power from another EU country such as Romania – will things be smooth with the Romanian legal workers in Italy? I kindly ask you not to rush with the answer.
I am not in a hurry –no need to rush – I can keep chatting with you till Xmas.

Kamal Awad

May 31st 2008, 00:30

Dear Mr. Vladmir C Forte
Smart City and +any thing else
You Said :

(Fellow EU citizens. EU members are not foreigners within the Eurozone because they hold the same rights in every EU Country ..)

Dose this mean Minister GATT or the government wouldn’t have brought the whole thing into Malta?
Does foreign investment – Business has a nationally and frontiers?
For the sake of the conversation I will assume it does.

Malta has been there for thousands of years in its place. Now big investment from EU came to Malta from within the EU-Right? Why the Smart City investment which is the biggest ever investment in IT would come to Malta?- I calcify this question as a 1 Million USD question. (Sorry I used the USD as I don’t know the equivalent amount in European currency + I don’t know what I would say-Euro or Euros)

Now I am off to Ta-Qali- I will listen to Morena and hopefully I manage to deciphered the code ?? Am I off the topic again? Sorry mela. I will come back soon - Bye for now and thanks.

Kamal Awad

May 30th 2008, 23:44

Raymond Sammut
I will only comment on the last sentence you said. Really VERY WELL SAID
You said (This is a very difficult issue, and we need to learn more about it. We must continue to provide input to the Maltese government, and we should never give up)


I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU 1000000%


But you know what is the core problem?
Its True- 50 + voted to join the EU but apparently 90+ of the Maltese citizens still yet to be on familiar terms with the whole thing of the EU.
THE KEY IS TO LEARN – LEAN LEARN – But the sad thing no body seem to be willing to read or learn!

I. M. Dingli

May 30th 2008, 21:45

Dear Mr. Awad,

I utterly cannot understand your views, your ideas and more over your discussion points.

Now you are also taking into consideration allegations or surveys issued by AI, the same AI that has published a report about the way Malta is handling this particular problem. The same report which pointed out two cases which happened outside of the Maltese SAR zone but still they used them as daggers to backstab us with in front of the whole world.

AI and that sort of organisations are just a bunch of wolves in disguise! The do a lot of talking but when you boil things down you find no substance and still governments and people donate money for their causes. Unbelievable.

Raymond Sammut

May 30th 2008, 20:04

The guy is circular and vexatious. I wish to urge my fellow citizens, who share a genuine concern on the issue of illegal immigration, to please direct their comments to the Maltese government. Ultimately it is the Maltese government who forms the body of decision makers, and they need our concise and coherent input. Direct letters to members of parliament will also help. May I also suggest readings of some of the very competent articles written by Sir Andrew Green. The most recent one “Devastating demolition of the case for mass immigration”, and the one dated 27July05 “What About Our Human Rights?” are most pertinent in my view. This is a very difficult issue, and we need to learn more about it. We must continue to provide input to the Maltese government, and we should never give up.

Kamal Awad

May 30th 2008, 19:53

@ Mr. Vladmir C Forte - Later I will talk with you more about the immigrants and the Smart city
Now – I am off to rest for few and I would also like to confess that, my age and energy are behind my delayed post and discussing many issues at once (keep it a secret please – at least behind the screen, I can say any name- any age- any place and even feel younger – why not?...hihihiihi)
Talk with you later.

Kamal Awad

May 30th 2008, 19:45

Mr. Vladmir C Forte
Mr. Charles Sammu
Thanks for your comments.
I read all posted message as cautiously as I could. True- sometimes I go’ intentionally’ to what it appears to be off-the topics – this is because I am a naughty boy – smile please – from my screen I can see your smile- hihii)

My posted messages driven by PURE patriotism.

Back to business. Yes the issue in question ‘too’ is all a bout BUSINESS! (I classify politics as business too- this include all colors and directions)
I have posted many comments on this thorny ‘issue’ but – what actually is the issue? I really wish to know! Is it immigrants or illegal Immigrants? I am pretty sure if I put this question straight forward – 99.9 % of the respondents will be saying something like (our problem is clear it’s the illegal immigrants).Okay well understood. But on the other hand – why surveys and reports carried out on behalf of the EU Human Rights groups and AI say the opposite? Here we must STOP-THINK.
I am sure, we can suggest solutions but we must first identify the issue!

Kamal Awad

May 30th 2008, 18:11

No blame on the government. Money ‘alone” is not the only fix. The key problem is within us.
The Maltese are Fretted. Why the European Union tackling on immigrants is not up to the Maltese expectations?

Continues surveys carried out in Malta (on behalf of the EU Commission to detect racism and the xenophobia in member states) demonstrate that racism and xenophobia is high among population –yet alarming. This place Malta at a disadvantageous place among member states. More importantly, this goes against the fundamental values of the EU: Human rights and democracy.

These also puts our politicians at awful shape when negotiating the immigrants issue with their European counterparts.

Now, shall we get out of the EU? NO-This is out of question. Shall we kill immigrants? Certainly not. Shall we keep crying and post clunky writing? Waste of time and only fuel the situation. So, what is the solutions? We must start from within us. Who should lead the way? Every genuine Maltese citizen. But how? We start from parents at home, schools, youth centers and churches and before every thing Media. This is my view any way and its (trash able)

Vladmir C Forte

May 30th 2008, 10:12

Dear Mr Awad,

you have mentioned Smart City and that investors might reconsider to invest in Malta because 95% of the population do not agree with foreigners in Malta. Quite frankly you are right but when we refer to foreigners we are not referring to our fellow EU citizens. EU members are not foreigners within the Eurozone because they hold the same rights in every EU Country Member, therefor we would prefer to have investments from the Europe than ending up a bridge between the Arab World and the Europid.

Its like every War has collateral damage so to achieve peace afterwards, and same in Malta, we rather loose investments then loosing our true identity as proud Europeans. What you are suggesting is that we should become like prostitutes, whoever comes to do the job we just open our arms and accept. No thanks Mr Awad.

Charles Sammut

May 30th 2008, 09:07

@Kamal Awad why don't you go staright to the point instead of beating around the bush and tell us what the ultimate goal of this organised criminality, which we euphemistically call "illegal immigration", is.

Here you have it from the horse's mouth. Col. Ghaddafi did not mince his words, he was totally honest about his aim. Listen to him here http://youtube.com/watch?v=u-XQk6LAur4

I have total admiration for these muslims, they know where their interests lie and they will stop at nothing to achieve their ideal. I am also confident that they will succeed sooner than they think.

Let those who believe in turning the other cheek do just that.

Kamal Awad

May 29th 2008, 21:08

@ I. M. Dingli

@ I. M. Dingli
by the way – not long ago I was talking with a some (University Students) about the population deficit and Blue- Card etc. they thought I am talking spaghetti-monsterist TA MARIA TAL HUT- What made me sad until now – out of say 13-15 students NONE OF THEM KNEW ALL NAMES OF EU MEMBER STATES imam the biggest surprise was that. NATO is a EU member state!!!!!!!!!!! you can try what i did yourself and you will @ shock.com heheheh

Kamal Awad

May 29th 2008, 20:55

@ I. M. Dingli

@ I. M. Dingli
I may avoid sub-issues but never skip a word of what I read.. Do you really consider the population deficit as phony issue? I don’t think u do!
I posted the fuel article as (1) saw it interesting. We agreed- what you don’t like just trash it (Money back – Guaranteed) lolllllll
I posted the web site of a very good source of EU information. Please- search in this site and you will find it very interesting.

Kamal Awad

May 29th 2008, 20:22

@ I. M. Dingli

Continued 2/2
Immigrant knows that they are needed in Europe - This fact Immigrants understand it. But EU citizens (politicians not included) don’t. So, let us be honest – whom to blame? The population busy with many other issues (Deal U no deal?

What is illegal must be legalized and eventually deported if needed be (each case on its merits). And this exactly what the authorities are doing I presume!

Now – shall we get out of the EU? NO-This is out of question. Shall we kill immigrants? Certainly not. Shall we keep crying and post clunky writing? Waste of time and only fuel the situation. So, what are the solutions? We must start from within us. Who should lead the way? Every genuine Maltese citizen. But how? We start from parents, schools, youth centers and churches and before every thing Media. This is my view any way and its (trash able)

I thank you for keeping up the conversation so we can exchange views. Many peoples just pops up posting almost same messages every day...and skull away ! Could be my / our screen names scares them?he he he

Kamal Awad

May 29th 2008, 20:17

@ I. M. Dingli

If we first acknowledge the need for EU to import man power. Then we can discuss the other aspects including the legal side (I am not a legal adviser)
Whatever we discuss it must be within the EU books (Human Rights) . Agreed?
Humans Rights per se – means (HUMAN) + (RIGHTS) - agreed?

Are EU Humans Rights universal?

I mean, are Human Rights applicable on all people all over the world, irrelevant of race, ethics, colors? The majority 99.9 of EU citizens would say YES. Imam in reality the opposite is correct (according, for example to studies and surveys carried out by EU Commissioner to detect racism among population in EU Member states.)
Again, being ‘illegal’- without document- coming in a boat or a private jet- NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT DEGRADE AN (HUMAN) - Let alone using so many other words (in our posted comments for example). This is the bait most peoples swallowed and it’s reflecting badly on Malta – UNFORTUINATLY

This also puts our politicians at very awful shape when negotiating the immigrants issue with their European counterparts.

I. M. Dingli

May 29th 2008, 19:34

@ Kamal Awad

I'm sorry but you seem to fail to read what I’m writing here so how can you expect me to read the articles you are pointing out.

You mentioned the blue card again when earlier in my post I quoted an article from BBC which rules out blue cards for illegal immigrants. Than there is the other matter were you do not distinguish between illegal and legal immigrants in all your posts.

You are brainwashed with the matter of population deficit and see illegal immigrants as a solution!!! :)

Now you want to talk about the fuel crisis….. well I guess you think illegal immigrants are a solution to this problem too….. Actually I might agree with you…. Let’s use them to pull our vehicles, be it commercial or private ones so that we won’t need any fuel!!! :) lol

Kamal Awad

May 29th 2008, 17:49

@ I. M. Dingli
Before I go I would also refer you to read about THE HOTEST ISSUE (in my opinion)
EU leaders unsure how to handle fuel crisis
29.05.2008 - 09:24 CET | By Philippa Runner
Fuel price protests threaten to spread around Europe in the run-up to the weekend following earlier action in the UK, France and Bulgaria, with EU leaders uncertain how to respond to the unfolding crisis.

Dutch and French truckers have promised to cause disruption on roads on Thursday (29 May), while fishermen in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Belgium and Greece plan to picket ports and government buildings Friday, newswires report.

On Wednesday, French fishermen eased port blockades, but farmers sealed off fuel depots near Frontignan and Toulouse, with riot police using tear gas to break the line. In Bulgaria, lorry and taxi drivers closed parts of Sofia to normal traffic.

The rocketing cost of petrol and diesel - up by 30 percent in France this year - is linked to record global oil prices and exasperated by the high levels of government taxation on fuel. In the UK, 65 percent of the price of petrol consists of tax….
To read the whole article plz follow this link:
http://euobserver.com/9/26236/?rk=1

Kamal Awad

May 29th 2008, 17:35

@ I. M. Dingli
Thanks for your comments- (smile)
True it took me long last night in front of the computer because I was watching Mr. Abela and Ms.Grace Borg (the usual annual talking) .why we didn’t make it with our VODKA? (forget about illegal immigrants –these are hotter issues !). I do I do I do suggest next year we send JOSETTE from BOMBA or JOE DEMICOLI!! – I am kidding

Now we talk about the ‘less’ hotter issuessss
Please, before we talk about the legal position of the immigrants -
Are we now getting a bit closer to understand the major EU issue (population deficit) ?
Are we in better understanding of the Blue -Card thing?
I would just ask a question….were these VERY IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE EU - regarding Immigrants widely discussed in our too many talk shows?
Or at least were they given equal importance as when we hear about new boat arrival?
Do you mind reading my comment on one of the Talking Points of Mr. Lino Spiteri - Monday, 19th May 2008 – please do .

I. M. Dingli

May 29th 2008, 14:35

But Kamal, you are putting two different issues within the same argument and that is why (in my opinion) you are at fault. It is very clear from your last statement that you do not differentiate between illegal immigrants and legal ones.

I used to work at the Mater Dei hospital before it started operation and believe me for every Maltese worker there were 5 foreigners. Most foreigners came from the following countries: - Serbia, Croatia, Sweden, England, Ireland, Norway, India, Russia, Pakistan, etc. They had no problem what so ever to work in Malta so I believe that your point regards foreigners not being welcome here in Malta is a bit dodgy.

Illegal immigrants on the other hand are not welcome anymore since their number is far too much for Malta. If Amnesty International thinks that we are doing a bad job than I invite them to spend lets say, from April till October here in Malta to verify the situation and not just come over for a couple of days visiting the detention centres and than issuing such a report on us Maltese.

Kamal Awad

May 29th 2008, 10:48

@ I. M. Dingli
@Dear Vladmir C Forte

Dear friends.
We all love our country. We should not give any body the chance to point a finger at us. I WAS VERY SAD TO READ THE EDITORIAL ..Monday, 26th May 2008 - Editorial
Malta's detention policy and racism
I also posted my comment that day. We are really doing a great harm without knowing. Any negative report from the EU on Malta it makes us look bad and it reflect on foreign investment.
Now we are waiting for the Smart city project to be in operation soon –hopefully- right? Just imagine ourselves in foreign investors shoes – would they feel welcomed /attracted in our country when the read they read survey stating that 95% of its population does not welcome foreigners?? Believe me - it’s a chain and every thing count.
Someone may ask ..but we are talking about Illegal immigrant? I will not be here to answer such question and as I will be there a Dingli Cliffs…kidding ..hihihihi

I. M. Dingli

May 29th 2008, 09:42

Correct me if I’m wrong since you read between the lines, but aren’t the above conditions automatically eliminating the eligibility of the illegal immigrants in the first place. First of all due to the fact that whenever they come to Malta they don’t bring any identification documents with them and moreover I believe they will not bring the required certification and proof of experience. So I would rule out the possibility of giving them the blue card so that they can pay taxes. If so, what is their purpose here?

I. M. Dingli

May 29th 2008, 09:41

@ Kamal Awad

I believe that you spend too much time in your sitting room or office that you have forgotten the reality we live in here in Europe.

You mention things like the blue card, the following is an extract of the modalities of the blue card as stated on the BBC : -

‘To be eligible, new immigrants would need to show a recognized diploma and have at least three years professional experience.

They would also need the offer of a job, for a minimum one-year contract, which could not be filled by an EU citizen.

European Justice Commissioner Franco Frattini said: "This is not an 'open doors' policy."
"If a given member-state needs engineers or doctors, it has to decide how many, and then I will provide a state with a common procedure," he added.

Kamal Awad

May 29th 2008, 00:43

@ I. M. Dingli

I seem to have forgotten answering one of your questions.

Population deficit:

(EU families can’t afford more than one child on average. Be it because both parents have to work or be it because it is expensive to maintain a family made up of more than three persons.) This is also another reason behind the population deficit in what you called ‘civilized world’ (I think)
I may also add: Out of wedlock babies add extra burden. But please although every thing is co-joined I still prefer to stick to Immigrants issue.

Vladmir C Forte

May 29th 2008, 00:12

Dear Mr Awad, you are forgetting one major problem. Why do you think there is a problem in EU countries regarding population ? ? Is it because we are not mating enough so we need African people to do the job for us ? ? Or is it because thanks to all the illegal immigrants flooding Europe working under cheap labor, many EU citizens are finding it hard to work any extra hours or a decent pay rise, or even worse loosing their jobs. There for, because many can't afford more than 2 children, they are responsible enough to live with it. Unlike to what happens in Africa, we don't just add the problem and expect the rest of the world to solve it for us. And this is not racism but facts and reality. So we thank you for your concern about our population but we don't need any help for breeding our future generation. If we stop having to deal with the illegal immigrants living on our taxes on a daily basis, we wouldn't have the pension funding problem from the first place.

Raymond Sammut

May 29th 2008, 00:07

I agree with Mr Vella, “help is ok but stay here is out of question”. We are prepared to save lives at sea. We are prepared to provide food and shelter to the needy. But we should also be in a position to provide safe passage to these people to their respective homelands. I shall ask the Maltese government for the third time. I shall ask the Maltese government as many times as it takes. Rescind the 1951 Convention document right now without any further delay, and start returning these people to their respective home countries. Anything less would be dereliction of duty towards us the Maltese people. The problem that we are being faced with here is by far greater than us. It is humanly impossible for us to rise to the totality that this document is presenting us with.

Kamal Awad

May 28th 2008, 23:48

@ I. M. Dingli

PLEASE PLEASE

I just would like to confirm few things: I am not an expert in EU issues. I only have my birth certificate and out side my setting room or my office I have no power- I am very happy with my condition indeed. My only credential are reading (betweens lines) and analyzing what I read using a bit of logic to apply this within historical facts for verification. I refrain my self to be a victim of today’s re-cycled news sources.

Kamal Awad

May 28th 2008, 23:38

I. M. Dingli

I first thank you for your questions – It make me happy to see a person comes back and ask questions. (Smile)

• The countries you mentioned are not EU members.
• The whole EU thing - This questions was answered (YES) by 50+ of the Maltese.
• Facts about bout EU population and Culture deficits as clear as crystal. Should you like? I can furnish you with 1000+ global sources.

Illegal immigrants right now they don’t pay taxes. This is factual and also ‘seems to be a burden’ on taxpayers’ true as well. The EU will soon be on the process to legalize the illegality of these immigrants and provide them with – Blue Card.
“Civilized” persons as you said it (don’t just think about bringing children to this world for the sake.) – Civilized or un-civilized has nothing to do with population deficits. The core issue is that- Over producing- and over Consuming coupled with increases in prices with many essentials has formed what I would describe as “False Luxury”- I can refer you to my comments on Minster Gatt- Tackling transports 19-15-2008

a.attard

May 28th 2008, 22:38

Dr simon busuttil, were are the Frontex you bluff about?

Sandro Pace

May 28th 2008, 22:07

Well said Mr. Dingli. Is it Europe that has a cultural deficit? If one says this in relation to Africa, he would be probably taken to court for racism. If there is a continent which has a cultural, scientific, social, and democratic deficit it is Africa......needless to say. The result is visible, immigration.

Europe is the land of Beethoven, Michelangelo, Newton, Shakespeare, etc. etc. etc. and the Maltese nation is well content to be within that sphere of influence of rich culture.

If Europe need people, it has every right to decide how much, from where and with what skills. Its still physically impossible that Africa's surplus will fit into Europe. As Mr. Dingli said, if African culture means the more children the better, even under poverty conditions, than its their problem.

No one is saying that Libya should keep African immigrants within its territory. It has every right to deport and act in its best national interest, which only the Libyans can define. As much as only the Maltese know what's their best interest is.

Malta's population is still increasing by its own accord, it is work which is going away.

I. M. Dingli

May 28th 2008, 21:18

As to population deficit…. Well my friend…. Civilised persons don’t just think about bringing children to this world for the sake of having a large family tree. With the present living standards and relative cost of living, EU families can’t afford more than one child on average. Be it because both parents have to work or be it because it is expensive to maintain a family made up of more than three persons.

Personally I think that it is one of the biggest problems of African people….. too many kids. An average African male can’t even provide food for himself let alone his wives and children. Than one fine day they decide to pay $3000 a head to come to Europe illegally ….. that is called poverty in your opinion?

I. M. Dingli

May 28th 2008, 21:18

Dear Mr. Awad, you are right in pointing out the fact that Malta is a full fledged member of the EU and that the EU books are full of human rights and safeguarding democracy etc etc but correct me if I’m wrong … are Nigeria, Libya, Chad, Somalia, Ethiopia, etc member states? Aren’t EU regulations directed to member states? If not, what’s the whole point of having the European Union! If anyone can join than we could rename it as World Union (WU)!?!

You repeatedly point out the fact in your various posts that Europe has a population deficit and you hide behind the excuse of not having enough tax payers to fund future pensions.

I don’t believe that the illegal immigrants who live within the open centres have any declared income and thus pay any taxes what so ever. Rather, it is US tax payers who are providing shelter, food, together with other amenities to these persons (and I must add, they don’t appreciate any of it).

Kamal Awad

May 28th 2008, 16:56

Continuation 2/2

More not easy to accept facts:

• The fertility rates decline across all the developed world this of course include Malta.
• The average birth rate within the EU is down to about 1.5 children per woman, raising fears that an ageing European population will not be able to finance pensions systems
• More man power must be imported
•
THE FICTION
• We believe the solution is more funds from the EU (money alone does not provide the key solution - I commented on this before)
• Libya should be the safety valve for Europe and be border patrol agent.
• Criticizing the government – immigrants by using such clunky writing in posted message (this fires back as I commented before)

Any body - this apply to all colors (Red-Blue-Green-Yellow ..etc) and directions (Right-Center right – far right- Left- center left – far left – upside down…etc . any way I posted more detailed messages during the past 2 weeks exposing my view on key issues and solutions …and I repeat again feel free to classify my comments as (trash able) -smile

Kamal Awad

May 28th 2008, 16:54

FATCS AND FICTIONS

Actually facts and fictions are too many but I would condense due to post limitations:
• Malta is full fledged member of the EU. All issues including immigrants issue must be regarded within this frame.
• EU – based on economy – means business - means money –means EU IS NOT A CHARITY
• Human rights and safeguarding democracy are the most significant 2 pages in the EU books.

• All citizens of the EU enjoy ”equal” rights as well as obligations. In Malta case it true - 50 + voted to join the EU - but apparently 90+ still yet to be more familiar with terms of both rights and obligations. Sincerely I would suggest – Among all our MEP’S web sites I bring to my mind the following: Dr.Simon Busuttil: www.simonbusuttil.eu. . Joseph Muscat. www.josephmuscat.com

A hard to accept fact is:
• Europe has both population deficit and Cultural deficits. This must be filled by more imported man power. On the cultural aspect I again bring to my mind many factual writings by Dr. Ranier Fsadni (2004-2007). To be continued…

Ernest Vella

May 28th 2008, 14:09

The Maltese Goverment must for once be hard headed in his decisions with the EU.....help is ok but stay here out of question must be the position and if UN comes and says something just ignore them....what are the great UN Nations doing for the problem....NOTHING and we are here coping with problems we don't need

Raymond Sammut

May 28th 2008, 07:16

This issue is clearly of an economic nature. It amounts to up to $10,000 per head for traffickers on the African side, and to on the street availability of cheap labour on the European side. At the same time, the EU remains tepid on the situation. As I have mentioned elsewhere, the Maltese government should pull out of the 1951 Convention without any further loss of time, and start repatriating these people. It has a duty to act, and no one can be in a position to take it against the Maltese government. In South Africa, presently, civilians are already taking things into their own hands with tragic consequences. Up to 100 illegal migrants are reported to have been killed, forcing Mr Mbeki to call in the military. The Maltese government should have nothing to do with these type of events, and should not wait any further. The onus is on the big EU15. They are very familiar with the African continent, and they know exactly the source and nature of this problem.

Marcel Dingli

May 28th 2008, 02:26

STOP blaming the Government, Libya, Frontex and what not. Blame yourselves !!! You had an anti immigration political party on the 8th March and a few voted Azzjoni Nazzjonali. Prior to that Alleanza Nazzjonali Repubblikana also said its bit and also others. We were labled racists etc. Now who is to blame for what is happening? The people were warned. Now it might be a little too late. I dont care. I dont have a wife and children. So now all the grumblers have to see what to do. Go to the mirror and shout at it : ITS YOUR FAULT !!!!

Charles Sammut

May 27th 2008, 20:22

It is a blatant lie to say that Europe needs immigrants. This is obvious from the fact that no EU country has beaten a path to our door to take these illegal immigrants off us. So please respect the intelligence of those who are genuinely concerned about this national disaster.

Let us learn from the mistakes of others. Oslo, once a peaceful Norwegian city now has four times the crime rate of New York. That is what the Norwegians got in return for their generous asylum policies. Same story with Malmo, Sweden. Google "Oslo crime statistics" and see.

Our children will not be grateful to us for the consequences. I was tempted to write "curse us" but I resisted.

steve busuttil

May 27th 2008, 16:55

@ m.mercieca & Mr Wain,

Call me racist, call me cold hearted, call me whatever you wish, but i will always call a spade a spade!

Immigrants have the apropriate channels to ask for Refugee status, i am not against hosting someone who's life is in danger, but if you read a little bit you will notice that only a very small amount of immigrants actually obtain refugee status, the rest are just ILLEGAL travellers.

If a friend of mine from outside the EU arrives at the airport without a visa, he is sent back to the country he flew in from, why is it different for people who are clearly organised (satellite phones and calls to open centres in Malta for their 'rescue') by criminal organisations when they are 70 miles offshore?

Malta cannot sustain this influx, it is effecting our economy, and our limited resources are stretched beyond capability. Ask the soldiers who patrol Maltese waters and the centres in Safi how they are treated by these ILLEGAL immigrants, i have and i am shocked to hear that they are spat on, insulted and even attacked.

Illegal immigrants are ILLEGAL nothing else!

M . Mercieca

May 27th 2008, 15:44

Mr. Frank E. Camilleri
Until couple of years ago I was with same thinking that EU Don’t need immigrants and immigrants are extra burden (with even extra bla bla bla )….etc.. But after knowing about the other side of the story as far as lack of Europe population is concerned. I found out the opposite is the truth. Sound bad my dear friend but that’s what the truth sometimes does.

Andrew Gatt

May 27th 2008, 10:48

Europe's priorities are breathtakingly inexplicable. If all the bleeding hearts in Europe put the same energy into solving this real crisis as they did to stop spring hunting for 2 game birds, we wouldn't be in this mess. Some club we've joined!

Instead, Malta's resources are being stretched beyond capacity, while most EU countries argue and squabble and pass the buck. Frontex seems to be a paper tiger, and, to cap it all, these self-same paragons in Europe have the cheek to lambast, accuse, insult and criticise us about our detention centres!

Yes, these people are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. No passports, no records, no idea who they are or where they're from. Please stop the soft-soap and diplomatic language. Try and enter another non-EU country in this way!!!

Andrew Gatt

May 27th 2008, 10:35

Europe's priorities are breathtakingly inexplicable.

R.Gauci

May 27th 2008, 09:33

We are in a situation the I don't know if you have to laugh or cry! To come to visit Malta from a country outside the EU for a holiday or other reasons including studying English I don't know how many papers to get a Schengen Visa and then these illegal Immigrants can comfortably sail to our shores! Who knows may be they were heading to that famous Hotel standing in Golden Bay for a short break! This is ridiculous! Speak to someone who is in relationship with a foreigner (coming from a country outside the EU) and they tell you how much papers and hassle to get a valid residence permit (if you get it) for his/her partner or even once you get married! I am not against that to make it clear but laws have to be the same for everyone! Everyone seeks a better & happier future after all !

Frank E. Camilleri

May 27th 2008, 09:23

To Mr M. Mercieca.

I am the same Frank Camilleri who 'scolded' your comment. My comment was posted on Saturday around 10am.

Hiding the truth or trying to minimize the effects of such a bizarre reality is either being naive, or playing naive which is obviously deceitful.

People know the adverse effects of illegal immigration especially on our dear future young generation. Do you advocate hiding the real situation not to 'create tension among population?'

'forgetting the historical facts' is an insult to our forefathers who fought to defend our beloved country. My grandfather died during the war in August 1942 at the dockyard in defence of his country whose freedom and sovereignty you and I enjoy.

Talking about the future: I if we do not take the matter seriously, act quickly and present a common front augurs for a bleak future. This is a real serious issue rather than ‘an issue of no issue’ as you suggested.

No, Malta does not need illegal immigrants.

Re solutions: I commented about these on other occasions. Look them up in the back issues of the Times.

Robert Lewis

May 27th 2008, 01:06

I suggest to the Maltese Authorities a possible solution to this poblem if it is true that the immigrants want to try and find a better living in another country rather then Malta. I suggest that when the Armed Forces are called for rescue they should tow behind their patrol boat another boat in perfect condition, full of fuel, food,life jackets, water and even equipped with sails as well so that if they run out of fuel they can continue their trip with sails. Then when they arrive on the scene of the rescue they ask the immigrants whether they want to be brought to Malta or continue with their trip with the other boat. If the offer is accepted the Armed Forces will bring back the other damaged vessel back to the Malta Drydocks for a refit, and I'm sure there are capable people at Malta Drydocks to bring back the damaged boat in good top conditon and follow procedure. Frontex seem to be diverting the boats to Malta not stopping them to come here. Charity begins at home and like that we will be helping both the immigrants and ourselves.

Mike O'Hara

May 26th 2008, 22:11

I suggest the Maltese Government urgently seeks change to the current Search and Rescue zone for which Malta is responsible. I have shown the map to a number of people here in the UK, to a universal response of "that's ridiculous".

The zone, extending almost from Tunisia to Crete, probably made sense when the Royal Navy had a large presence in Malta, but makes no sense whatever now. Malta is basically covering what should be the responsibility of Italy and Greece, as much larger EU countries.

This in no way diminishes the role of the AFM - but a country of 400,000 cannot take on responsibilities that it's neighbour of 60 million should shoulder. I also think there should be more involvement by us and our neighbours in Northern Europe - what else is the EU for?

Alfred Farrugia

May 26th 2008, 21:48

According to the ECJ interim decision, Malta should allow birds to continue on their journey to Europe. Could Malta ask the same ECJ for its opinion on the issue of a Schengen visa to the illegal migrants once they arrive in Malta? Or are birds more privileged than people from non-EU countries according to the ECJ?

I fully agree that the immigrants who arrive in Malta should be treated humanely, and that their basic human needs – security, identity and recognition – should be satisfied. More importantly, I wish to suggest that Malta takes the initiative to launch a Migration Directive discussion within the appropriate EU institutions to address the root causes of illegal migration from Africa. The EU should allocate some of its resources to the analysis and resolution of conflicts in Africa. Malta could assist the EU by considering the possibility of hosting a centre where research could be conducted on this problem. This could be Malta’s contribution to the EU and to Africa in the field of peacemaking and peacebuilding.

M . Mercieca

May 26th 2008, 21:12

Attn:Frank Camilleri
Are you same Frank Camilleri that scolded my comment and run away the other day ?

Any way I am very glad to find someone ready to converse rationally.
Far from being cynical or offensive. This is a serious issue and must be treated rationally- Agreed. But we must not ignore the fact that using certain words RECKLESSLY do no good – provide no suggestions - create tension among population.
For the sake of seeking a rational answer “I will forget about the historical facts behind this thorny issue of immigrants” and I will only talk future- Does the European Union ( of course including Malta) in dire need for Immigrants? Yes or No? Answering this simple question would rationally direct further talk on the whole issue.

Joseph Mallia

May 26th 2008, 21:09

What a shame. Four landings in as many days. Where are the Frontex patrols. Perhaps guarding the shores of Spain? Summer has barely started, imagine what we are in for till September and possibly October. Why are the landings always in small groups of not more than 27? Something is going wrong a few miles away from our shores. And in the meantime we keep paying taxes to keep these unwanted persons illegally entering our country with impunity.

Frank E. Camilleri

May 26th 2008, 20:22

This illegal influx cannot go on. I strongly appeal again to our representatives to outwardly and courageously face this problem.

Our parliamentarians seem silent about what is going on. They are more concerned about vying against each other over relatively trivial matters.

Since election is over, none of them seems to bother about this reality worrying most of their constituents. We are simply treated as ballot papers.

Many including parents are afraid to voice their concern since they may be labelled as racists.

Unfortunately, I am not a parent and I could sit cross-legged and tight-lipped about this problem. But this is my country which I was taught to love and protect. I do not give a cent to those who call me racist. I am simply being realistic and rational. I strongly urge others to be so.

Anybody forcing his/her way into any country is an illegal immigrant. Referring to illegal immigrants as 'irregular' immigrants is a conscious effort to mislead and deceive; this is hypocrisy of the highest degree.

Those against taking the necessary drastic steps against illegal immigration are short sighted of the negative implications of the present and of the near future of our younger generation.

I. M. Dingli

May 26th 2008, 18:58

Dear Mr. Wain, could you please come up with a sound solution rather than focus on the way other persons expose their arguments?

Giles Zammiit

May 26th 2008, 18:06

Is it true that Malta is one of the most densly populated island in the world?
Na...... that's a myth!
How can one pour more wine in a full up bottle?

Is it true that every year Malta's budget ends up with a couple of million euros deficit?
Na...... that's another myth!
How can one welcome guests, free of charge, to an open bar and dine party paid on loan?

Any magician out there, can give me the answer to the above tricks?!

a agius

May 26th 2008, 16:29

I think that it is about time that the Maltese Government and the EU do something about this problem. It is not just a problem that will be solved by doing nothing. The government need to take action now and not tomorrow. It is a shame that Frontex and our government are not doing much regarding this problem. We are the ones who are paying the highest price.

Our Kids will pay for our mistakes. We need to say " NO MORE!!!"

Chris Ebejer

May 26th 2008, 15:56

300 years ago Grand Master De'Redin builds the watch towers to control our shores from an imminent invasion. Today 300 years after illegals can sail into Golden Sands without any trouble!

David Wain

May 26th 2008, 15:01

To Adrian Allain, how would you define "indigenous Maltese population"? Can Maltese really be considered as a separate ethnic group? Do you think that them not being Maltese by birth means that persons have a higher propensity to commit crimes? Some anti-immigration exponents take umbrage at being called rascist. We should all agree that this is an issue which needs to be discussed without fear of labelling, however one has no choice when arguments raised are fundamentally rascist.

L. Galea, insists on stressing that they are ILLEGAL. That is just a brush which he has unilaterally decided to paint all immigrants, refugees or otherwise. It is an extremely misleading manner of dealing with an issue of such importance. Aren't all bona fide refugees illegal until their refugee status is confirmed? The fact is that, notwithstanding this stubborn insistence to label all these people (not animals or numbers) illegal, a great quantity are in fact victims.

Frank Bonello

May 26th 2008, 14:53

The whole issue here is that Libyan authorities (Army / Police / Government) are a farce. It is well known that most of the irregular migrants are originating from there. The Libyan authorities don't do anything about it. In fact they probably close both eyes as like that they get rid of the migrants from their country, so much for brothership and African Union, Gaddafi trumpets about.
The European governments (including Malta) assume that talks with Libya are going to lead somewhere. They don't. Maybe it is time to start talks with Chad, Egypt, Sudan, Niger and Algeria about this problem. Ignorning Libya altogether. Maybe that way an effort could be done by those countries to stop the illegal migration. Libyans have proved themselves useless, incapable and probably not up to the task. Their neighbours (some of them probably) might take this a bit more seriously than Libya. New ways need to be thought of here as waiting for Libya to do something is not going to lead anywhere.

J Fiott

May 26th 2008, 14:00

How about if someone could put up a counter so that we could keep track of the total number of irregular immigrants in Malta at any one time ?

Obviously one would need to ensure that any "deported" immigrants are deducted from the count. Fair enough no ?

L Galea

May 26th 2008, 10:55

Anyone still thinking that Frontex is not a sham after 4 consecutive landings of ILLEGAL immigrants?

Daniel Cardona

May 26th 2008, 08:54

Where are Frontex Boats? What are Frontex doing? Why are we paying taxes for Frontex and nothing is being done? For how long shall we accept them, feed them, give them shelter and education?

Adrian Allain

May 26th 2008, 08:53

What everybody fails to understand is that there will be no end to this invasion of Europe from Africa.
This will go on year,, after year, after year, as long as there is such a difference in living standards and quality of life between Europe and Africa.
When will Malta be forced to draw the line and say, "Enough is enough, we cannot allow any more to remain here." Before the illegal immigrants outnumber the indigenous Maltese population I hope.
It is time for the Maltese government to act now and send these people straight back. Not detain them and then allow them to be absorbed into the considerable population of immigrants already here.
I read the 'Times' every day and I am very worried by the ever increasing number of reports of criminal activities by persons who are obviously not Maltese by birth.