Video: Hidden shotgun found at Kennedy Grove

jane deguara nee hughes

Apr 26th 2008, 08:51

well i have watched this video about 4 times now, and the police who are in this video should be reported, ( no gloves) I agree with Mr j. Fenech it must have been put there by one of the birdlife people

joeseph fenech

Apr 23rd 2008, 10:48

I am not against hunting, and also I am not a hunter, but I think this gun was planted there by one of the birdlife watches... what do you think, come on hunters are not that stupid to leave their gun hanging around, they are not cheap to buy for one, also it can be traced very easy... wake up people, just let them hunt... as long as they stick to what they have to shoot... thanks

Jimmy John M. Vella

Apr 21st 2008, 08:59

SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!!! - What if some kid found the gun and accidentally shot himself or any other person around?

Malta is soo small... That kid (or other injured person) could be a relative of the same person who hid the gun or of a relative of any of us posting comments hereunder....

Martin Dingli

Apr 19th 2008, 02:29

Just stop Killing.It's that simple. Killing wildlife will kill us all.

Mario Scicluna

Apr 18th 2008, 15:20

Keith Chircop: Forensic Experts can recover a Defaced Serial number from a weapon by Chemical Erosion of the same weapon. Provided that the number has been printed by a punching process. It's not an easy task though.

Robert Sultana

Apr 17th 2008, 16:47

Hats off to both, Fabian and Kenneth for the balanced way in replying to each other's comment. Altough Pro hunting myself I can still recognize gentlemen on the opposite side of the issue. Both of you have gone up several notches up my respectability meter. Well done.

Ian Sammut Dacoutros

Apr 17th 2008, 16:18

SHAME SHAME SHAME!!!

Even in aftermath of the recent irresponsible actions of few that brought about the death and destruction in Naxxar, we see yet another blatant action of criminal irresponsibility!!! The point is not whether hunting should or should not be allowed in this case, the point is that a loaded, concealed weapon was left in a public place frequented by people even with children. Evidently the gun was left there in a manner to protect it from the elements for later use, so the person who left it there either 'forgot' it or left it there to come use it later on - it is not rocket science!!

The problem with this country is that we have an attitude or mentality of 'mhux xorta', and this is not only detrimental to our country in general but can be down right dangerous. This apathy towards others and others safety even is WRONG!!!

A wise friend once told me that my freedom ends where the next persons’ begins - leaving a loaded, concealed weapon in a public place is INSANE!!!

When are we ever going to learn or did the poor person not think that a child could have found it and literally blown their head off or that of someone else. Do we have to wait to see it happen before we can use a slight bit of foresight!!!!

SHAME!!!!

MARIO SALNITRO

Apr 17th 2008, 14:09

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FOOLING BIRDLIES ???
WE ARE NOT STUPID AS ONE MIGHT THINK, MAYBE THESE TACTICS WORK IN OTHER COUNTRIES.

Kenneth Cassar

Apr 17th 2008, 12:25

Dear Fabian,

I appreciate your saying that you do not think I am one of the "maybe a couple" that you mention. I'll make sure I point that out in my blog (I believe in fairness). And yes, I would support conserving landscape and preserving habitat for wildlife.

Of course, regarding the rats and mice that you call pests, I would rather use humane traps and release them elsewhere .
Regarding the "dog debate" being on TV, no, I did not know. I rarely watch TV anyway - I'm too busy doing other stuff - and anyway, I don't have a TV from where I'm posting. In any case, I'm glad I got the discussion going. Let each side state its case, and then let the individual or the public decide - that's what I believe.

Fabian Borg

Apr 17th 2008, 11:13

Kenneth Cassar,
I was not referring to you as part of "maybe a couple". I believe we are just two persons on opposite sides of a river just on the legal hunting issue. I surely appreciate most of your work as I believe you would appreciate mine when this is limited to conserving my part of Malta`s landscape for anyone to enjoy the sight and wild animals to live in. My land holds many local animals like hedgehogs, wild rabbits, variety of snakes, lizards, chameleons, weasels (ballottri), not to mention nesting birds like a variety of warblers and sparrows. Then there are other unwanted visitors like pests, mice and rats which I try to eliminate but that will always find you opposing it. True ?
Thanks for your comment and unless you noticed it our famous dog debate ended up on TV today ;-)

Chris Calleja

Apr 17th 2008, 11:11

Forget the hunters and birdlife. It is true that there is an element of illegality with regards to hunting in an un-open season. One has to look further beyond this case.
The true irresponsibility is that of the hunter/owner who left the shotgun hidden and moreover loaded. If children playing around found this gun and thought that it was a toy, a tragic incident might have taken place.

Sandro Agius

Apr 17th 2008, 10:29

Just asking: There was need to place a video on such a news? Are there other reasons behind all this? Next time place a video of those who enter into a private property without permission too.

James Cauchi

Apr 17th 2008, 08:09

Firstly - i'm not personally pro-hunting.

However I do note something. At the beginning of the video there is a distinct thudding sound, meaning that the first police officer was probably placing an item back into the pipe concerned.

This could mean that this video came 'after' the professional part of the handling was dealt, though I would have thought that keeping prints intact for evidence purposes would be desirable (not that I'm versed in forensics mind you). This is the explanation that I would prefer.

An alternative yet improbable explanation is that no culprit was meant to be caught, which might be the case were the shotgun 'planted' by somebody to begin with. I'm not saying that this is the case but I see no reason for a critical thinker who looks at all scenarios to discount it.

"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, (Sherlock Holmes) The Sign of Four, 1890 - British mystery author & physician (1859 - 1930)

That, by the way, was a defense of the practice of looking at improbabilities, not an accusation towards any potential interests concerned.

Kenneth Cassar

Apr 17th 2008, 08:07

Dear Fabian Borg,

This is in reply to your comment that you started with "Dear Franco Farrugia and Co".

You will perhaps note that I have refrained from commenting on this news item...until now. I have done so for two reasons.

1. I do not believe that the many should be punished for the actions of the guilty few.
2. I would rather let the police do their work and find the culprit.

However, just to make it clear where I stand, I would like to comment on your statement where you said "What I hate, and I hope that all of you (unless maybe a couple) agree, are those statements which come out almost spontaneously stating - Ban hunting, collect guns, shoot at hunters, criminals etc, One must think before writing and not continue to throw stones just because others are doing so".

1. You will already know that I am one of those who would like to see a total ban on hunting, including the collection of guns. However, my reason for this is not because of an irresponsible person like the one in this case. Like I said, the many should not be punished for the actions of the few. I shall not repeat my reasons for wishing hunting to be abolished - I have written extensively about this in my blog and in letters to The Times.

2. Regarding "shoot at hunters", only an irresponsible person would say that. One who believes in the right to life of all individuals can never wish for the killing of anyone except in self-defense.

3. Regarding "criminals", since not all hunting is illegal (although in my opinion, all hunting is immoral), not all hunters are criminals. However, those who hunt illegally are criminals. But again, the many should not be punished for the actions of the few.

So yes, Mr Borg. Like you say, one must think before writing and not throw stones just because others are doing so. In fact, you will notice that I have ignored this issue in my own blog, since I believe that it is a case for the police, and the issue should stop there.

So when you say "unless maybe a couple" in your quote (above), I hope you were not referring to me. In that case, you may wish to change the "couple" to "just one", if even that is the case.

Martin Galea De Giovanni

Apr 17th 2008, 01:20

...next thing we'll be hearing is that birdlife members are shooting at the birds, whilst the hunters drink coffee and play cards in their unsightly "hides". It's amazing how some hunter's apologists can make themselves believe such nonsense when the truth is so glaringly obvious ...

If all the irresponsible hunters who peppered me with hot lead, almost ran me over (on public roads), because they were more interested in the flock of birds the in the sky, and were seen shooting illegally, were impersonators trying to give FKNK a bad name, then BLM have a jolly good acting troupe.

It would also mean that half the members of FKNK are fake, and perhaps that explains certain election results.

Eric Camilleri

Apr 17th 2008, 01:10

Why bother with forensics ? It is evident that the objective of the find is definitely not to investigate who is the culprit.

Tracy Anne

Apr 17th 2008, 00:02

Birdlife yesterday claimed that "anarchy" is prevailing in this country....and when a person finds an abandoned shotgun birdlife are informed before the Police...is this what they were refering to? Is this the next phase of Temuge's secret weapon!?!?! May I ask why leaving a shotgun loaded with just two cartridges when after all (I suppose) that the intention of leaving it there is to do something unlawful in the coming days/weeks?? Why not loading it to its full capacity - 5 cartridges??
I have nothing against nor in favour of hunting, however it is very surprising that until a few years ago no one really cared/knew anything about this practice that has been in existence for thousands of years. Why all this fuss all of a sudden?.....although I condemn all forms of illegalities!! In my opinion, birdlife is only trying to provoke hunters instead of doing what it should do.....protecting the environment.

Joseph sammut

Apr 16th 2008, 23:30

Seems just like some news film footage just out of a Taliban area in Afghanistan, what! Yes, very silly and most unprofessional for those Maltese law-enforcement officers to handle evidence with latex gloves. taxpayers would expect the head of Police to severely reprimand them, and their leadership for lacking standards and obvious lack of training.

Maltese hunters, with such acts, continue to perpetuate a reputation of being disrespectful towards the Law of the Land, and the rest of civilised society.

It's a pitiful joke that fines, seizures, and incarceration aren't severe enough in Malta, whilst hunters could certainly learn a thing or two from European mainland hunters' law-abiding observance of set regulations when practicing their favourite past-time.

Fabian Borg

Apr 16th 2008, 22:45

Dear Franco Farrugia and Co.
If you look further down to my second intervention on this you may notice I called this act "an offence and irresponsible thing to do". This stands for whoever left the gun as for all we know it could be a gun owned by a licenced hunter or maybe a stolen gun owned by an unlicensed poacher. Whoever did the act is to blame and I am not defending anyone so I hope we are clear on that.
Soon after I watched the video kindly offered by BLM I had to mention some inaccuracies that come to mind always thinking that it was not a reconstruction after forensics did their job.
My point is that I hope that everything possible is being done to investigate and hopefully catch the offender. What I hate, and I hope that all of you (unless maybe a couple) agree, are those statements which come out almost spontaneously stating - BAN HUNTING , COLLECT GUNS, SHOOT AT HUNTERS, CRIMINALS etc. One must think before writing and not continue to throw stones just because others are doing so.
I am glad my comment initated a minor suspect on the incident not because it did not happen but with regards to the handling of the evidence. There are 17,000 hunters and their families out there wishing the same thing as you, that the bad guy be caught. I am sure it is an important thing for all of us but BLM could care less now as they got their pubblicity and their spot on all media.
Many people have the idea that hunters are just illiterate countrymen and farmers that want to stick to their guns. There are hunters from all parts of these islands in all levels of society including businessmen, professors, doctors and other position which are all important to the country. Judging such a big chunk for the acts of few is not ethical.

Vanessa Mifsud

Apr 16th 2008, 22:45

Well, probably the police were just taking a video after all the investigations were done! I really hope its not the 1st time they had touched that shotgun because the evidence would have been destroyed!

tonyscerri

Apr 16th 2008, 22:17

I totally agree with J. Azzopardi's comments. However I would like to add that many of the police officers do their job to help and protect the law, by some of them have really really joined a police force, but a boy scouts troupe.

Amanda Mallia

Apr 16th 2008, 22:12

I shudder to think what the consequences could have been had the shotgun be found by one of the many "little explorers" picnicking there.

I would never have thought that people could be so irresponsible as to leave a loaded gun lying around. (The fact that it was concealed in a tube is no excuse, because children tend to be curious, and could easily have opened it.)

The good thing about this is that it is an eye-opener. Many parents - including myself - let their young children roam around picnic spots (albeit in their vicinity) whilst they themselves are chatting away. From now on, I'll be more wary about doing so.

P Fenech

Apr 16th 2008, 22:06

A gun is found and noone tries to catch the culprit redhanded??? We take a video to show it on all media and to add to this police handle the Gun without the use of Gloves to protect any finger prints which might lead to the culprit given Birdlies were so keen to strike a news??? There are too many questions to be asked and I urge The commissioner of police to inquire these things since people who break the law are all to be brought in front of justice. People who obey the law and are waiting the ever increasing dubious procedure adopted by ECJ that is taking incredibly long time to decide need to be given justic as well and what was promissed by our politicians need to be given back. I am not talking about illegal spring hunting but about the legal one.

Darren Caruana

Apr 16th 2008, 21:24

Dear Mr Gauci,

It was made it quite clear (through the media at least) that the four taken to court, were only so for forwarding the messages and were not the original source.

we may never know who the source is. Want to have a guess why?????

A.Vella

Apr 16th 2008, 20:54

Although I am not in favour of hunters, I think it is high time that people stop and reflect a bit. Birdlife is becoming too extremist and by doing so they are damaging all of us. Birdlife are giving impressions that all Maltese are blood thirsty bird killers and I know of quite a number of people choosing not to spend their holiday in Malta because of this image Bird Life and co are selling.

Bird Life has lots to learn from the whaling section of Green Peace, they protest in a civilised way and manage to get more attention than other whaling extremists such as the infamous Sea Sheperd. We should all understand that up to a decade ago hunters were allowed to shoot on anything, and I believe that the majority of them adapted very well to the intense changes in the laws. Finally, everyone should understand that all countries have their share of illegal hunting, including those who are pointing their fingers at us. The difference between Malta and the rest is that a shotgun shot in Malta is heard by half the population, whilst a foreign hunter shooting in an inhabitant area is not heard by anyone….
infamouse Sea Sheperd

tony caruana

Apr 16th 2008, 19:41

Why was birdlife involved before the Police?
I hope the police do their work properly and catch the real culprits !

Richard Cachia Zammit

Apr 16th 2008, 19:10

Whilst I totally agree that the gun should have never been touched before forensic examination has taken place, yet I don’t find anything strange about it. In fact, it did pass my mind that poachers might hide their weapons. I came to this conclusion after last Sunday whilst walking near B’Bugia. I saw quite a few men clad in camouflaged clothing as well as a few hunting dogs and yet I did not see one single person carrying a gun. But just the same, in the hour I was there, I counted at least 50 shots. Whoever goes hunting right now knows very well that it is illegal and so they do it as furtively as possible, with only the noise of the shot gun giving them away.

C Mallia

Apr 16th 2008, 19:01

Philip Galea...was it silly now to remove a gun with access to everyone? What if your family went to picnic at Kennedy Grove and your son found it and pressed the trigger, while the police were supposed to watch over it 24/7. With guns there is no SECOND chance. Good work from the police to remove it. Hope they have found better ways to catch the culprit

Michael DeBono

Apr 16th 2008, 18:56

Funny how Birdlife/Birdlies followers always know where to look and what to look for at the right moment...a little suspicious don't you think?

Mark Gauci

Apr 16th 2008, 18:53

Unbelievable....when will the hunters ever say mia colpa !! Whatever illegality is brought to light by BirdLife Malta the latter always get the blame. BirdLife got the blame for starting the sms messages inciting the violent protest planned for last Sunday.....surprise , surprise four hunters were subsequently taken to court. Hunters also have the cheek to blame BirdLife for the arson attack their members suffered at Buskett some time ago.
Please grow up and admit that amongst your ranks are a large (and I repeat) a large number of hunters that could not care less about the law.......

Anthony Formosa

Apr 16th 2008, 18:32

Why the gun was loaded with one cartridge in the chamber only? Nice try birdlies.

Kurt Storace

Apr 16th 2008, 18:08

What happened to gloved hands when dealing with forensic evidence?

Robert Sultana

Apr 16th 2008, 18:08

Funny how this chain of events seems to be coming to a climax just now when the Maltese govt. is patiently waiting for the ECJ's decision on Spring hunting !! Coincidence or not ???Seems to me to be a case of " It's too good to be true !!".

Charles Borg

Apr 16th 2008, 17:57

Did I see right? The police unloaded the shot gun with bare hands without gloves... any evidence such as fingerprints are now gone. This is serious! What other evidence is there against the culprit? One correspondent said that the serial number can be easily defaced! Probably another unsolved criminal case to add to the many others like it.

Philip Galea

Apr 16th 2008, 17:46

How silly to remove the gun from its place. Had it been left there, the 'culprit' would have been caught very easily. Just watch the place and someone would come for it.
Another mysterious find reported to and acted on by BIRDLIES.

M.Cardona

Apr 16th 2008, 17:38

Such a law abiding hunter indeed having loaded only 3 catridges as the law dictates but yet hiding a gun in a nature reserve!!!! Birdlife malta and co how gullible do you really think the better public really is???

Now its not only paint covered birds being found lying around in the coutryside. Incredible now its shotguns too. I can't resist, got to find me a spare shotgun. Any help from your end Birdlife Malta????

Alfred Farrugia

Apr 16th 2008, 17:35

Further to my earlier comment, I have just watched the video “courtesy” of Birdlife. Are the persons in uniform real officers? Is this the training they get? Now we have their fingerprints on the gun! How about that? Or is this “Act I of Spring Season 2008”? When are we going to get serious in this little island?

Franco Farrugia

Apr 16th 2008, 17:34

Oh well ... Fabian Borg must, of course, blame everything on everyone except the hunters. Poor thing!
Birdlife must certainly be the aim of the hunters, and I don't know why, since Birdlife is not the one that is breaking our peace and our order! Birdlife is only doing its duty.
Does Fabian Borg deny that there is rampant hunting going on all over Malta at the moment? Can we, for one moment, imagine what it would be like if the season DID open?

The worst deaf are those not wanting to listen, we say in Maltese.

K. Chetcuti

Apr 16th 2008, 17:28

Shouldn't the police officer have taken the necessary precautions to examine the shotgun for fingerprints before handling the gun in such a way? Or don't we have a fingerprint database in use?

Derek Steele

Apr 16th 2008, 17:22

I sincerely hope that the video was a reconstruction after fingerprint and DNA had been taken?

D Mifsud

Apr 16th 2008, 17:22

I totally agree with J Azzopardi. How can the police not manage to catch those hunting illegally? I mean they are not doing a crime such as stealing in the silence of of the night! they are firing shot guns, which are not exactly silent!

Keith Abela

Apr 16th 2008, 17:22

If it is said that the serial number of the gun could easily be defaced wouldn't it be the case that those members of the ALE handling the found gun should have been wearing gloves to protect any evidence on the fire arm? Or is evidence not important at this stage! Maybe the interest is that of paving the way for the abolition of hunting....

Nyal Xuereb

Apr 16th 2008, 17:20

It's very strange that Birdlife went onsite and tampered with evidence before alerting the Police and waiting for their arrival. They even managed to send photos to the press before the ALE arrived. They just made the investigations even more difficult.

C Mallia

Apr 16th 2008, 17:20

Fabian Borg. What difference does it make whether birdlife or police have been alerted first? Could be the person who reported it felt more comfortable to contact birdlife and remain anonymous. What if children found this gun and started playing with it.

As to whether this incident is related to hunting or not, let us leave that for the rest of the readers to decide

Fabian Borg

Apr 16th 2008, 17:19

Keith, if the number was deleted it is only going to delay the finding which will eventually happen. Semi automatic weapons are registered by make and serial number. The date of first registration is also available. The gun seems to be a Breda (from the little I can see in the footage) and seems to be manufactured in the mid seventies as it is not a gas operated model. With this info one can restrict the search to the guns registered in this area or neighbouring towns going by that name. Police know their way believe me and they are not as inefficient as Birdlife want you to think...
I only hope that the footage we saw was shot after forensics had a chance to examine the gun and maybe take fingerprints or any other C.S.I. evidence to eventually find the guilty citizen who left the gun. Until the culprit is found and proven guilty for me this is just another mysterious finding and nobody can point fingers at anyone.....
I hope you heard that Mr. Raine...

A.Magri

Apr 16th 2008, 17:04

Were fingerprints taken or was the evidence destroyed when taking this video?

Alfred Farrugia

Apr 16th 2008, 17:02

I might be reading too many conspiracy theories, and the authorities might not necessarily have an easy case here. Is it possible that this weapon was buried by a criminal and not a hunter? Has anybody tampered with fingerprints and what not? Is it possible that the gun was planted by somebody who has an interest in putting hunters in a bad light?

Apart from his carelessness, is the hunter concerned – if that is the case – stupid enough to afford to have his gun taken away by a third party? Is it possible that the hunter buried the gun because he came to the conclusion that spring hunting is no longer possible? Can Birdlife let us know how many international bird watchers are currently present in other countries in Europe and the Mediterranean, and do they produce a report of their findings?

It is unfortunate that spring hunting in Malta has been stretched by the extremists on both sides, and an acceptable common ground has not been sought in an appropriate manner. Is Birdlife Malta not rendering a disservice to Malta by internationalizing this issue out of proportion?

paul fava

Apr 16th 2008, 16:03

Wow......so the Birdlies found a shotgun did they......the poor owner evidently had to hide it as all the PN promises that they had negotiated a historic deal for us hunters was nothing but sh...
Don't blame the owner, he was after all promised that no one will touch his Spring hunting season!!!

Lawrence Collins

Apr 16th 2008, 15:51

This is a very strange incident. One has to ask quite a number of questions before news of this sort can be believed. May I ask what did the ALE and Birdlife go to look for after they received the report? Wouldn't it be better to tackle a matter like this by catching the offender red-handed , rather than searching for a hidden treasure? Who were the eyewitnesses who preferred to notify Birdlife before the police? Without convincing answers to tens of questions of this kind, it would be very hard to remove the smell of frame-up from the air
I have no love for bird killers and I do not like the way Birdlife is trying to convince us that hunters should not exist, but I expect Birdlife to respect my intelligence.

Keith Chircop

Apr 16th 2008, 15:48

Fabian: the serial number can be easily defaced/removed. It might not be an open-and-shut case.

Joseph Aquilina

Apr 16th 2008, 15:23

Are the police even going to try and find who the owner of this weapon is? Hunting as we know it does not have a future and will become soon something of the past mostly thanks to hunters who do not care to follow the Maltese laws. The police should make sure that all hunters follow the law since they risk to once again being accused of negligence, something which they cannot afford after the firework accident in Naxxar. Just imagine if a 6 year old child found that gun and accidentally pulled the trigger in the wrong direction!? What would we all be saying?

Fabian Borg

Apr 16th 2008, 15:14

Leaving a gun (especially loaded, if it was the case) behind is both an offence and irresponsible thing to do. The procedure with such findings would be to track the owner of the gun by the unique serial number. The culprit can be found easily.
May I add that such incidents which are happening to be undiscovered systematically in a tactical manner were always illegal and should not be in any way connected with the legitimate hunting of doves and quail.

R Ciappara

Apr 16th 2008, 14:46

I have always tried to see the hunting issue from the point of view of those hunters who obey the law and only hunt the correct species.

But these rogue hunters have managed to tarnish the name of all hunters. It's bad enough having protected species being shot at by irresponsible poachers. Now you have someone like this guy who is irresponsible to the point that he's left a gun hidden in an area frequented by picnickers mostly with children and has the gall to keep the gun loaded.

I hope this guy is caught and taught a lesson but given the state of maltese justice I'm guessing we'll hear things like 'the gun was stolen and someone hid it there'...

Fabian Borg

Apr 16th 2008, 14:43

I cannot understand why Birdlife was alerted before the police. The number of the police is much easier to remember than that of Birdlife !

J. Azzopardi

Apr 16th 2008, 13:55

Only ' sleeping police' do not hear the bang of shotguns whirling all around the Cottonera bastions when migrating birds pass by. Residents near the various housing units of Rinella, Ricasoli, Hawli and Verdala hear the bang bang of hunters. How come the ALE or Police stationed in the various localities ignore the fact that the law is being deliberately broken? Why are hunters being left to dictate the way a country is being administered? I am no environmentalist per se, but the law is the law and should be respected in a democratic state and the police and administration should check unruly behaviour and law breakers should be shown no mercy.