Gift of Life rejects AD chairman's comments on abortion

Raphael Vassallo

Apr 7th 2008, 17:05

I'd like to thank the web administrator for removing James Cassar's libellous comment and thereby sparing me the hassle of suing both Mr Cassar and The Times, as I would otherwise most certainly have done.
To avoid similar hassles in future, I feel compelled to point out that any further comments to the effect that I have "called for abortion" to be introduced to Malta in any shape, manner or form, will land the contributor directly in court.

Harry Vassallo

Apr 7th 2008, 12:44

This debate seems to have become one between RV and the rest once more missing the point. May I suggest that readers read the CoE resolution in question at http://assembly.coe.int/Main.asp?link=/Documents/WorkingDocs/Doc08/EDOC11537.htm
Malta is not the only country in Europe prohibiting or severely restricting abortion. Invited to depenalise abortion by the CoE we will decline, which is fine since it is in line with the firmly held opinions and beliefs of the vast majority in Malta. All established political parties including AD concur. The question is that only Malta and Andorra maintain the prohibition when the abortion is required to save the mother's life. Not even the Vatican holds such a position. GoL confuse moral exemption by the double effect principle with the clear draconian prescription of our Criminal Code. If we are all agreed that it is insane to demand that women die in such circumstances, why are we afraid to say so clearly in the law while safeguarding the prohibition on abortion in other cases?

Marise Vassallo

Apr 5th 2008, 21:32

Getting a little hot under the collar, dear boy ? Now stop dancing for a bit and try answering the question honestly. Are you actually capable of doing so or are you a fence-sitter, without opinion, not really giving a damn one way or the other, content simply to keep things stoked as long as it pleases you ? I confess I have a vested interest here - I took out a bet recently that there is a grain of substance buried somewhere within you (and a few others, too). I got good odds, too. Don't let me down.

Raphael Vassallo

Apr 5th 2008, 20:05

Marise, by definition, abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. After birth there is no more pregnancy to terminate. From the remaining comments it is evident to me that this discussion is utterly pointless. The proposal under discussion is to change the Constitution and has nothing to do with any campaign, real or perceived, to introduce abortion to Malta. So why is everyone getting into a flap about I think or do not think about abortion? And why do they even care, if I'm such a lost cause to begin with? Don't bother answering, I'll leave you all to bask in the warm glow of your own moral superiority.

M. Baxter

Apr 5th 2008, 19:19

I can assure you Raphael that I will not judge you as maybe I should. You never had an abortion yourself yet you act like you know all about such a complicated issue. Your talk about abortion offends women like me who have been though one. You really have no clue at all how wrong you are. I suggest you meet and talk to a few women who felt they had no choice but to go for an abortion because their partner did not take up the responsibility they should .Do something worthwhile with your life and go and find out what a terrible life long trauma abortion, whether legal or not is.

Donald Zammit

Apr 5th 2008, 19:13

We are witnessing the degradation of a just society before our very eyes in Europe and the West. It seems that even in Malta, a cluster of people like Raphael V have succumbed to the tragic senselessness of abortion as a right. He reminds me of a very scared and cornered animal at this moment, one who by all accounts, will do anything to be different and stand out from the crowd, even if it means support the murder of babies. His arguments are full of holes. Almost every time he writes, I spot failures in his reasoning, yet he ignores it all and rants on hysterically himself.

Raphael Cassar

Apr 5th 2008, 19:07

Vassallo and I share thesame name. Thankfully, that is all. He acts as though he is some authority in the matter of abortion. What an inflated ego. I hope you never meet a woman who aborts your child, even if you wanted to have that child. Raphael only seems to make sense to himself. I really try to understand him but, I just don't get him at all. Anyway, I am sure he will find a handful of weirdos to agree with him in the end. As for me and my opinion, well I think that is clear. Argue all you may dear Raphael V. You simply look worse as times goes on.

Marise Vassallo

Apr 5th 2008, 18:08

May I then take it, Raphael, that you too consider it murder ? How young would the child have to be before you, personally, stopped considering it murder ?

Raphael vassallo

Apr 5th 2008, 18:07

"Those in favour of abortion here are very very few thank goodness. They are very vocal precisely because they are so few."

James Cassar, what planet are you living on? Who are these "very vocal" few? I can't think of a single person (except maybe Emy Bezzina) who has publicly advocated introducing abortion to Malta. This is in fact the problem with GoL's proposal. they are riding on a false impression in order to create moral confusion, and then use it to convince the country of the need for a Constitutional change. But there isn't any need, precisely because there isn't any pro-choice lobby.

Oh, and Mark Ciantar... where were you when the parliamentary bioethics committee recommended the banning of the morning after pill, despite the fact that its own report identified a point 20 hours after penetration of the ovum as the origin of the human person? And have you visited GoL's website, which is linked to Life International: opponents of in vitro fertilisation and the diaphragm, among others?

Mary Baxter: I have nothing to say to you. You just carry on twisting other people's arguments. As for the rest, try and remember that we are talking about opposition to the Constitutional amendment, not a lobby to introduce abortion. It;s not that difficult to understand you know...

Raphael Vassallo

Apr 5th 2008, 17:51

Sorry to keep you all waiting with bated breath.

Dr Samantha Grima: i am not in favour of capital punishment, for one simple reason: i don;t believe the State should have the power to deal out death in the name of justice. Exactly how Dr Grima seems to think that one opinion begets the other is a bit of a mystery to me... but so far the debate has rarely followed any recognisable logic, so it is hardly surprising.
Marise Vassallo, the killing of a 2-month-old by a raped mother would be a non-sequitur, and even in countries with liberal abortion laws (eg. Spain) that would be considered murder. James Cassar: nobody is suggesting legalising abortion in Malta so your concern about how your tax-money is spent is entirely irrelevant.
Donald Zammit: you are quite right. I do find absolutism threatening. The inability to doubt one's own convictions is a quality shared by the world's most nefarious criminals, including most psycho-killers and international terrorists. Perhaps you are unaware of the long list of murders committed by pro-life fanatics in countries such as the USA.

Any other questions?

Donald Zammit

Apr 4th 2008, 21:29

Abortion. The curse of the centuary. With Europeans exporting the worst of humanity in the form of choice and human rights. We have to keep on using logical arguments for life and never let the pro aborts steal the arguments on the premis of freedom. Abortion is not freedom but slavery to a lie. Malta should remain pure of this madness and women helped if pregnant

Marise Vassallo

Apr 4th 2008, 20:33

Guess you must be pleased at the reactions you've generated, Rafell. Now then, we'll get to deals later. In the meantime, let's talk a litle about rape, for instance. Is it OK, in your book, for a rape victim to kill her two-month old kid ( 2 months after being born, of course).

Donald Zammit

Apr 4th 2008, 19:23

To RV, the only absolute he may believe in is that there is nothing absolute, because it threatens his opinons

Paul Vincenti

Apr 4th 2008, 18:45

Kyle, Please contact GoL by email on info@lifemalta.org

Dr. Samantha Grima

Apr 4th 2008, 18:35

Raphael is so confused. First he claims he is only in favour of the choice, then he says he is in favour of abortion in cases of rape etc. What a disturbed man. Like his AD buddies, he can’t make up his mind.
I suppose he also agrees with capital punishment? He must you see as that is exactly what he is implying here. He is saying that a baby ( fetoes means “little one: in Latin Raphael)should be killed because of the crime its father perpetrated against its mother, BEFORE it was even conceived most likely. How odd is that? Raphael, are you in favour of capital punishment for rape? Now readers, watch for a diversionary reply from the big small man all over again. I am having a good laugh here Raphael, please reply.
.

James Cassar

Apr 4th 2008, 18:27

Life is too precious to be treated with such disrespect. Those in favour of abortion here are very very few thank goodness. They are very vocal precisely because they are so few. This island does not need to kill its unborn to be like the rest of Europe. I hope our Government sends someone to defend Malta in the CoE. It would be a mistake to leave the amendment pending any longer. I am not particularly spiritual but I don't like the tone of some who imply that to be pro-life you have to be religious. It offends my intelligence. It would seem tough that it is expedient for some to use that argument as they have no other argument to back their case for the legalised killing of babies. NEVER in MALTA Raphael, not with my taxes

Mary Baxter

Apr 4th 2008, 18:22

Mr Vassallo, I do not know you at all. I read your article and assume you are a journalist. All I have to say is shame on you.
Babies cannot talk to defend themselves. Malta is still pro-life and you are attacking the movement that speaks for the unborn against their death. You therefore want a debate about the unborn (abortion), but don't want any debate that includes them (the unborn) at the same time. Malta watch out. You are on the edge here and persons will try to confuse. What makes it so bizarre is that Raphael is a man who says he is pro choice. Generally it is the feminist movements.

Mark Ciantar

Apr 4th 2008, 18:12

Mr Vassallo. How will the amendment affect contraception again? I mean, come on mate. Are you trying to fool intelligent people in a tangel, of diversionary language. I would quit whilst I am ahead if I was you.(if that's what we can call it?) You have said you are in favour of choice. It is the choice to allow the killing of a child in the womb. I hope that people like you don't get their hands on the Constitution. Your odd idea of freedom of speech is to attempt to shut anyone else who does not agree with you, For your info, more than half the globe is against abortion and the choice for abortion.

Raphael Vassallo

Apr 4th 2008, 16:30

"Kill her child" is a somewhat melodramatic way of putting it. It might be tempting to reduce everything to absolutist terms, but not everyone agrees that a foetus in its early stages constitutes a child to begin with. I know many here think differently, but even if the overwhelming majority disagrees, it doesn't automatically make them right. Personally, I think there are numerous instances in which abortion may be justified, including terminal conditions such as anencelopathy, and mitigating circumstances such as rape. Having said that, I certainly don't think legalising abortion will be any use in a country which clearly doesn't want it. So how's this for a compromise? We just leave the law as it is (bogus prison threat and all). keep abortion nice and illegal, and this way we should all be happy. Deal or no deal?

Marise Vassallo

Apr 4th 2008, 14:04

Mr V., I read your article (one of your better efforts, I must say) and I'd still like to ask whether you, personally, think there are circumstances within which it's OK for a mother to kill her child.

Raphael Vassallo

Apr 4th 2008, 13:41

For what it's worth, an approximate answer to Marise Vassallo's question (if she is really interested) can be found here: http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/2007/09/09/rvassallo.html

Raphael Vassallo

Apr 4th 2008, 11:44

Marise Vassallo, the issue is more complicated than just being pro-choice or pro-life; but then again this is a country that enjoys reducing complex arguments to simple dualisms: pro-choice, pro-life, PN, MLP, San Bastjan, San Gorg, etc.

And Kyle: the legal repercussions are staring us in the face. If a single lobby group can strong arm the government into changing the Constitution without even a debate, then other groups can do the same. In fact, there have already been requests for a Constitution ban on divorce and same sex marriages. We have already seen the morning after pill banned on entirely spurious grounds, and the amendment could be further used to limit other contraception methods such as the coil, which is sometimes defined as abortifacent.

Marise Vassallo

Apr 3rd 2008, 22:09

Question for you, Mr Vassallo (isn't this fun ?) i) are you pro-abortion or anti-abortion ii)

Kyle Pullicino

Apr 3rd 2008, 21:58

"2. Millions of perfectly ordinary people around the world are pro-choice. It's not in any way unusual, except in this country."

So? Isn't that great? Does that make us wrong?

"4. Last I looked this country was not GoL's private property. That Constitution happens to belong to the rest of us too, and some of us out here - starting with myself - do not want it messed about with just to satisfy a national obsession with beng called "pro-life" "

I don't want it messed about and lose my right to live just to satisfy a global obsession called "pro-choice" neither.

And who's speaking of owning the country? Owning the country are those people that don't want various organisations, such as the Gift of Life, to speak out and pass on their opinion to the society.

"5. The amendment would have serious consequences and implications (on contraception, fertility treatment, and by virtue of setting a dangerous legal precedent) which have never been properly discussed."

I'd greatly appreciate if you'd mention these dangerous legal precedents so we can start a discussion on these issues which you say haven't been discussed and so get it over and done with.

I think, what Mary Baxter did here was very honourable of her. These are the people we need to listen too... those that have experienced everything first hand. Is this what we are going to allow Maltese women to experience?

Raphael Vassallo

Apr 3rd 2008, 19:42

A few points, in case anyone's still reading.

1. This is not a blog. It's an online newspaper.

2. Millions of perfectly ordinary people around the world are pro-choice. It's not in any way unusual, except in this country.

3. Opposition to the amendment as proposed by GoL has nothing to do with being pro-choice. You can be pro-life and against abuse of the legal system.

4. Last I looked this country was not GoL's private property. That Constitution happens to belong to the rest of us too, and some of us out here - starting with myself - do not want it messed about with just to satisfy a national obsession with beng called "pro-life"

5. The amendment would have serious consequences and implications (on contraception, fertility treatment, and by virtue of setting a dangerous legal precedent) which have never been properly discussed.

Danica Mallia

Apr 3rd 2008, 15:06

How can anyone try and get away with saying they are just in favour of choice but personally against something? It is like saying I that you disagree with murder, but you won't get involved in other people's decision to murder. Or it is like saying that a person disagrees with hunting but won’t get work or speak up against hunting in anything that takes hunters rights away.

Mario Massa

Apr 2nd 2008, 15:51

Raphael, in case you never noticed, this is a blog. Unless of course you want the liberal right to say and imply what you want and then try to silence others writers opinions. So much for pluralism! If you are in favour of choice or rights, you are in favour of the choice or rights for abortion, that makes you pro choice for abortion in my book. I never heard the pro-life movement use a religious argument once, yet you slander them with delusions of deity.

Anne Marie Sammut

Apr 2nd 2008, 15:36

Raphael. Who do you think you are taking the moral high ground on this issue. If you are pro-choice, you are pro-choice for abortion. I think the unborn should have a case of slander against you. Try and be a little realistic here.

Robert Agius

Apr 2nd 2008, 05:34

Why is it that with humans its abortion but with chickens its an omelette? - George Carlin.......just thought it would cheer you guys up.

Raphael Vassallo

Apr 2nd 2008, 00:28

This is a fine debate we're having. Any diagreement with Gift of Life automatically makes you an "abortionist". For Mr Zammit's information I have never performed an abortion operation in my life. I suggest he looks the word up in a dictionary. While he's at it he might wish to also look up the word "slander".

Jonathan Zammit

Apr 1st 2008, 22:27

The fact that Raphael Vassallo et al try to heap ridicule on the proposal does not make it ridiculous. What is far more ridiculous is his statement 'Malta wants to be SEEN to be pro-life, but is not interested in actually stopping any abortions from taking place'. Is this clown actually trying to have us believe that our anti-abortion laws have not prevented uncountable abortions that would otherwise have gone through ? The real hypocrites here are Raphael himself and his pals, the self-appointed architects of our 'liberal morals'. Fact is, in spite of their purported interest in women, their well-being, etc, they couldn't really give a damn about women, babies, and the value of life in general. There isn't an abortionist in history who's shown the tiniest fragment of concern for a woman in trouble AFTER she's had her abortion - such women have served the abortion-monger's purpose, are no longer of any interest to them and never will be.

Mary Baxter

Apr 1st 2008, 20:29

Mr Vassallo. You really have no clue what your are talking about and it is probably not even your fault. I live in England. We have had abortion since 1963. We fought for it under the right for women to choose also. I was one of those, in my youth and ignorance, who believed the ideal of having that right. Until I had an abortion. I beg you to stop being so blind and see what abortion is. It is nothing to do with my rights at all. It is absolutely horrible and final. Look at our country today. Many of us fought for the right and now we are fighting to have it stopped. It would have been far better to have never let it into our once fair England at all. I have been to your Island and Gozo 12 times now and you have no idea how fortunate you are to not have abortion or divorce. Look after this treasure. I hope to be back in the summer to find beautiful Malta safe in one pro-life piece. PS. Not particularly religious myself by the way.

Raphael Vassallo

Apr 1st 2008, 15:53

"I thought it was totally out of place to do what Dr Vassallo did." - Jamie Pace

What did Dr Vassallo do that is so heinous? Disagree with Gift of Life?

Abortion is illegal in Malta, and we are already in the ridiculous situation where we threaten women with prison and then never actually carry out the threat. Fact of the matter: Malta wants to be SEEN to be pro-life, but is not interested in actually stopping any abortions from taking place. If it were, we might have had more than just two inconclusive prosecutions in recent history...

As for Gift of Life's ridiculous Constitutional amendment clause, this will merely cement our hypocrisy forever, and stop future generations of MPs (who are also unborn, by the way) from trying to rationalise our hugely irrational stance on female human rights.

Let's hope more of our politicians remember that their real allegiance is to the country, and not to a single lobby group with delusions of Divinity.

Jamie Pace

Apr 1st 2008, 15:06

Gift for LIfe are correct. Dr Vassallo had no place suggesting what he did. I thought it was totally out of place to do what Dr Vassallo did. It is clear he is searching for a way to hide his woes. I thought he resigned?

P. Sant

Apr 1st 2008, 14:40

John Zammit is a fissat. He always mentions religeon. I never heard the pro-life people mention God once. It is so obvious that Zammit is anti Religious. It makes me so sad to see a man be so lonely and afraid. Ejja Mr Zammit, try and reach out a little and find some peace in your life. By the way, I was at the hotel that night,. There was a large group of about 600 to 700 people and yes a few were nuns. That does not make me a nun. Ejja John, be serious

John Zammit

Apr 1st 2008, 11:40

rubbish! What Joe Zammit is saying is all rubbish. The reality is that one finds himself in and not what the commandments say or what a small group of fanatics like the Gift of Life says. Reality is reality and I am in favour of decriminalising abortion. The very few old nuns, priests and persons protesting against Dr. Rebecca Gomperts when she came to Malta at the Valletta hotel are only a small group and should mind their own business and leave other people to decide freely what they want. Malta is only a tiny village in Europe and Malta has to learn to be European. Fanatics should go and bang their head with a wall and leave sane people alone to decide what to do.

Joe Zammit

Apr 1st 2008, 09:17

In the 5th commandment and for our own good, God orders us not to kill. Whether as an end or as a means direct abortion is murder. So whoever in any way favours abortion is going against God. Thank God, the great majority of Maltese and our MPs are with God and his Church, the Catholic Church.