Update: Healthcare payment proposal shot down before it reached the Cabinet - Gonzi

David Gatt

Mar 6th 2008, 04:21

Gonzi's own report speaks clear and there is no going round it. THE CABINET AGREES THAT AFTER THE GENERAL ELECTION A NEW PN GOVERNMENT WILL IMPOSE FEES FOR HEALTH CARE ON EVERYONE. Vote PN and say goodbye to free health care. Plain and simple.

Nicky Attard

Mar 3rd 2008, 16:27

Antonia, you can have a different point of view on an opinion, not on a fact. The fact that we will not pay for health services, as confirmed by our PM is a fact. And yes, I believe Lawrence Gonzi. Pity the same cannot be concluded on your party leader. He told you that Partrnership won the referendum didn't he? He said that he would leave the stipends untouched...remove Vat... yet again he says many things.
As Joe Saliba put it 'Alfred Sant excells at one thing... at heading the opposition'.
p.s if I get to watch the National Geographic, it would be with no thanks to your party that we've got an infinity of choices, brands and the whole lot. At least I get to watch it on a colour TV! ;-)

Antonia C Caruana

Mar 2nd 2008, 22:27

I just want to apologize for sounding a bit harsh. The point I wanted to make is that I can't stand it that someone says MLP followers are ignorant and stuff like that. I feel that is not the way we should discuss a matter on which we might have diff points of view.

Antonia C Caruana

Mar 2nd 2008, 19:05

Ms Galizia for your information I am graduated from the University of Malta with high honours and I have also studied abroad (no not in the EU!) So you are NEVER going to teach me how I think. I have a mind and I do not need the MLP media to feed me any information, nor any other media and especially not a forcina to the PN like you! I hope I made my point clear! And also I hope you stop thinking that you are some kind of superwoman with a maximum IQ! You know the party you are supporting within one week will be in opposition and your idol will be their leader. Enough with you, honestly you surprise me though and sorry to tell you but your postings are a waste of cyberspace here plus you are doing a brilliant job with any floating voters, well done indeed!

To Nicky Attard, so you believe what Gonzi said on tv and not what is written black on white, well done indeed. Guess you re still green in politics for thinking this way. Guess you will watch some national geographic programs on Net tv on the 9th March though!

Joe Martinelli

Mar 2nd 2008, 18:01

After this is over and done with, I will probably regret having wasted precious time trying to illustrate how feeble, irresponsible and ill prepared Dr. Sant is to lead this country into the future to all those who just do not want to use their brains.

I will refrain from calling them brainless or with something wrong with their DNA, I will leave those remarks to someone like Charles Mangion.

I am totally amazed at the throngs of citizens who for partisan reasons only completely disregard and jeopardize the future of their own children and grandchildren!

No wonder Dr. Sant feeds so readily on these dim wits and vice-versa.

Gilbert Guillaumier

Mar 2nd 2008, 11:55

V. Laiviera - a politician who fails to act in an ethical (and legal) manner is not fit to hold public office. And as for growing up, I think you better use that patronising attitude you have on yourself because if you think what Charles Magion said is not an important issue...well then think again because divisive politics can be more harmful than an arguable cabinet memo! History has shown this. The bottom line is this: In typical MLP spirit you have avoided to answer. Blurting out Sant's one-liners doesn't say much for your own capability to judge either.

joe borg

Mar 1st 2008, 22:34

And again Gonzi is not believable. We pay and how we pay. Or is the 3% difference in VAT a lie too? This election is fast becoming a farce, where both sides lose complete credibility.

Joan Gauci

Mar 1st 2008, 16:59

May I ask a few questions to those who have at heart the 'NO REGRETS' party? What is your leader planning to do with the 855 million euros from EU should he get elected prime Minister today week? How can you believe Dr. Sant when he had declared (it was front page on an MLP gazette) that Malta managed only to get only 1.5 million euros from EU? Did you believe Dr. Sant or Dr. Gonzi at the time?

Victor Laiviera

Mar 1st 2008, 15:19

I wonder what Mr Gilbert Guillaumier thinks of a party leader who refers to the opposite party as a "partit tal-mummji"?

Or one who refers to those who did not vote for his party as "boloh u mzazen!"?

Mr Guillaumier, don't you think we have more important things to discuss than rhetorical remarks thrown out in the heat of a political speech?

How about growing up?

Victor Laiviera

Mar 1st 2008, 15:13

The MLP has released another report, from 2005, where the PN government had informeds the EU it was proposing to finance health care through "miscellaneous fees".

Another blow to Gonzi's credibility - and I have a feeling the MLP has even more ammo in its lockers.

Andrew Sciberras

Mar 1st 2008, 14:43

Ms Caruana Galizia the issue here is neither Michael Falzon’s education, nor his lions, much less his yodeling. The issue is Dr Gonzi’s integrity and credibility. Dr Ray Xerri has said on oath that the report was drawn up at the request of cabinet. As far as anyone is aware, none of the members of Dr Gonzi’s cabinet are endowed with telepathy. It is therefore only logical to conclude that even if only to commission the report they must have talked about it. So why did Dr Gonzi mislead about this? That is the crux of the matter here and no amount of moving the goal posts is ever going to help. And by the way, while we’re at it, could someone please tell Dr Gonzi what the Whistler Blower Act is all about since the doesn’t seem to have a clue!

Nicky Attard

Mar 1st 2008, 09:43

Neither of us will be paying for health services as this is just another half truth from the Labour party, in a desperate attempt to try and tarnish Gonzi's reputation one week before the election. As confirmed by our PM yesterday on Xarabank 'NO ONE WILL PAY FOR HEALTH SERVICES AS LONG AS HE SERVES AS PM'.

Taking this argument further is futile...I will still watch cartoons on Super One Tv come Sunday March 9th. Once again...

Daphne Caruana Galizia

Mar 1st 2008, 01:45

Antonia C. Caruana - I think you will find that the difference in our view of this matter lies not in our political opinions, but in the fact that I know what a cabinet memo is and you don't. My apologies if I seem insulting, but your political leaders thrive on the ignorance of their followers. That's why, despite calling themselves a socialist party, they have consistently bent over backwards to dampen education and to deny it to all but the few. The more people know, the more they turn away from Labour. And then there are some people who get hold of an education and remain - well, I'm not going to be explicit, but Michael Falzon yodelling about the lions of change on the Floriana Granaries springs immediately to mind.

Victor Laiviera

Mar 1st 2008, 00:47

"The cabinet has approved in principle...."

Fateful words, in black on white which keep torpedoing all the efforts to deflect this isse.

Truly, the written word is strong!

Edward Mifsud

Feb 29th 2008, 18:16

Well, Nicky Attard vote PN and you will be paying ok, but we not. This serious leak from the PN side is causing untold damage to the party.

Mr J Aquilina I challenge you to supply ONE name and ID card of a Labour supporter who will not vote. In return, I have quite a few who voted PN in 2003 and will now either not vote or vote PN.

You and many other PN supporters know this. You are simply not happy that Dr Sant has performed very well in this campaign and not as you would have hoped for.

The cartoons are already rolling on NET TV.

Kevin Chircop

Feb 29th 2008, 17:21

Just for the record. We are already paying for the Healthcare Services. As far as I can recall Gonzipn increased the VAT from 15% to 18%. What happened to this money? Perhaps those with the selective memory that can only remember a 50c certificate and forget that medicinal prices have shot up by 50% to 100% give me some insight.

Gilbert Guillaumier

Feb 29th 2008, 15:23

Victor Laiviera – you are always talking about justice and that sort of thing…I’d like to ask you something on a different matter…when Charles Mangion said: “Daw ghandhom xi haga hazina fid-DNA…fid-DNA ghandhom xi haga hazina n-Nazzjonlisti!!!”.

I couldn’t help but noting a parallel with Nazi perceptions of life. As you know, Nazis believed in eugenics and that the Aryan race had a genetic dominion over other races. Now I thought that Charles Mangion must have been joking when he said that. But then I wondered that when, say, Norman Lowell spoke for racial discrimination, he was sent in court. Charles discriminated on the basis of political alignment, which in my view is a very dangerous pretext. Do you agree that his statement parallels those of Nazis almost 70 years back? Do you think he should be taken to court for instigating discrimination based on political beliefs?

E. Tabone

Feb 29th 2008, 15:03

V. Laiviera gives me hysterical laughter... His solution to Gonzi's perceived (by him and other labourites) "problem" is "resignation" but then for the MEPA officials he says "The resignations should be rejected and these people should be made to stay and face the consequences of their actions." He's inconsistent and incapable of looking at the whole picture… like that poor excuse for a leader he has after all!!

Dear Victor Laiviera... having a PM resigning is unique in nature... we'll gladly leave it for the MLP leaders' history.

C.Spiteri

Feb 29th 2008, 14:27

Well if Dr Gonzi really intended to put fees on the health scheme he would have introduced it 3/4 years ago. When he felt that he had to increase taxes and surcharge for the good of the country he did. So whats the point of raising the issue ? To throw mud. Panic from the labour side.

J Scerri

Feb 29th 2008, 14:05

It seems that the MLP haven't learned yet that saying untruths about the PN party and insulting the PN supposters it will leave them where they've been in the last 20 years ( Except for their titanical 18 months in power. Surely no one can forget, when they destroyed each other before they were able to destroy Malta !!!).

C. Borg

Feb 29th 2008, 12:45

I congratulate with you Nicky Attard that you have enough money to pay for your health services. But many other people, especially low income people, don't have the money to pay for such extra expenses. But my question is another. If there is written black on white 'cabinet has agreed in principal' how can anyone denies this? Even if this was written by a civil servant, it still says that 'cabinet has agreed..' But I see that on this site that are some people that only gets the bad side of one person and only the positive side of the other. Really brainwashed persons.

J. Degiorgio

Feb 29th 2008, 12:44

Oh my many Nationalists are sure worried about this episode of the electoral campaign! How can anyone not be in a situation like this? I still cannot believe that in this country we have arrived at a point where certain people deny black and white evidence! So you believe the author of the report whose press release seems like an inevitable denial but transpires no conviction whatsoever. You believe Dr Gonzi's billboards. However you don't believe the health reform document which is the ULTIMATE piece of evidence! Well, apparently Dr Sant has more documents to show us...we'll see what everyone will have to say then...maybe there are more 'incorrect' press reports...who knows?! :D
I've found some comments down here to be quite arrogant to be honest. Everyone can voice his opinion in the way he wants though.
Also, final word to DCG: Don't worry about Dr Sant baby sitting your dogs. Especially after the 9th of March, I think he'll be too busy in Castille to take care of your dogs...

Mario Debono

Feb 29th 2008, 12:33

Dear All, as one of the social partners who contributed to the drawing up of that report, along with the GWU, Chamber of commerce, ect., i confirm 100% Dr Xerri's version of events. The report was rejected outright by the cabinet social affairs committee. That is the truth. Enough said. And all of you who know Dr Xerri, he is a man of integrity and truth and is no pushover!

Nicky Attard

Feb 29th 2008, 11:12

Oh how i'd prefer paying for health services rather than having Alfred Sant as PM...

Just can't wait for Sunday 9th March to watch cartoons on Super One Tv once again...; -)

Joseph Aquilina

Feb 29th 2008, 11:11

Antonia C. Caruana, I will ask you one thing - why is Dr.Gonzi suing Dr.Sant? If Dr.Gonzi was afraid of the truth the first thing he would do is to try and stay out of a court! So why is Dr.Gonzi suing Dr.Sant? The answer is simple – because unlike Dr.Sant (and all MLP), Dr.Gonzi wants to show the truth, and the truth most probably is that that report never made it to the cabinet! However I can write a bible of words here and you will still believe Dr.Sant is to be the second coming of Christ if MLP’s propaganda branch ever decides to say so. I can already imagine MLP’s propaganda branch calling Malta’s INDIPENDENT court system corrupt if Dr.Gonzi and the whole cabinet wins the libel filed against Dr.Sant. Antonia C. Caruana, regardless of what you say, the truth is that a lot of people here in Malta, even deep rooted MLP supporters at this point, are tired of Dr.Sant because what he say and does is most of the time an insult to the intelligence of any living creature on earth! I am starting to believe that the surprise in this election will not be that PN supporters will vote AN, AD or not at all, but that most MLP supporters will decide not to go voting – because the real CHANGE is making sure Dr.Sant is not there for the next election!

John Schembri

Feb 29th 2008, 10:59

Dear Antonia , in 1996 Dr. Sant told us that "the proof of the pudding is in the eating " , well we ate his pudding , one of the ingredients was Lm 0.50 charges on Medicines , the taste was sour.
Only four years ago , Dr Gonzi told us something similar to what Sant said in 1996 ; "judge me from my actions and not from what I say". Were there any sour measures on our health care?On the contrary , we started having a 'win win' situation with 'The pharmacy of your choice' .Actions speak louder than words.

N.GRECH

Feb 29th 2008, 10:48

There we are , the REAL facts are out and now a libel suit against Dr. Sant too.
If the MLP deem fit to call Dr. Gonzi a liar then with all due respect , based on past and recent events,
Dr.Sant is therefore a compulsive liar and deceiver and this we now all know he does with
“ no regrets “ whatsoever.
In 1998 Mr. Mintoff accused Dr. Sant of losing his “ boxla socjali “ , today ten years later, Dr. Sant clearly seems to have lost it completely….!!

joe borg

Feb 29th 2008, 08:48

DCG, the fact that one lies doesn't make it any more acceptable by the other. We vote for integrity and you either have it or you don't, you don't partly have it. It's not a matter of degrees here. So you finally reach the truth, show me one party member in the two major parties who has integrity. And please don't say Gonzi.

Joan Gauci

Feb 29th 2008, 07:43

The MLP is playing very dirty and they know it. They know that their supporters only see one channel i.e. Super One. Super One News transmits only the part of the news they want their people to know. Their mission is to send messages which confuse or frighten students, elderly, families, parents etc. We are not joking here, is this the way they are planning to broadcast the news on TVM should Labour win the election (God forbid)?

If Dr. Gonzi would have wanted to introduce health charges he would have done so much before today. He (as he has already declared) is not going to put into effect these charges, then he will not. I believe him and no one can deny me this right. For me, PN has a vision of the objectives and sets out it strategies and policies to achieve the targets. On the other hand Labour has no solid policies and always gives the impression of ‘u iva, imbaghad naraw wara’. In managing the country such behaviour is not accepted. We are not in laboratory doing basic experiments, here we are talking about all Maltese people and our children’s future!!!

Labour wants to win this election come what may! But I’m sorry to say, in my opinion, they have not offered anything concrete and new considering the fact that they have been 10 years in Opposition. The very few scarce proposals that they have come up with are poor and vague. Many doubts are left on the electorate especially as to the EU package which Dr. Sant has already declared that he is convinced he can renegotiate. No one can say I’m lying about it because I’ve heard him with my ears and seen him with my eyes say it. I’ve also read and seen him say that he has no regrets on being against Malta joining the EU, 4 years later!!!

To me this is a question of credibility. One can see in the past but no one can see through the future! Records show that:

Dr. Sant on one side:
froze Malta’s application to join the EU when he was prime minister and has declared that he still has NO REGRETS about it,
introduced 33 new taxes in 22 months,
introduced 50c charges on medicines and medical certificates
increased the electricity and water charges when the price of oil was still very low
Changed VAT 15% to CET 22% to 27%
has now come up with the repeater, or as he calls reception class

Dr. Gonzi on the other side:
Believes in the capabilities of the Maltese
has brought Malta’s deficit to a minimum,
gives major importance to quality education and training,
new investment especially through Smart City
enhancement in employment rate

Dr. Gonzi himself has also declared that there areas where the Government could have done better and apologised for these as well. Now who should I trust or believe??? Can the answer be clearer? One last thing, data does not slip in or out of the computer by itself, it is the person who is inputting the data who either forgets to input it, inputs it incorrectly or has never even thought about inputting it!!!

john Schembri

Feb 28th 2008, 23:00

Was Dr Sant judging by his standards when he implied that Dr Gonzi will make us pay for our Healthcare?As far as I know our healthcare system remained free, Dr Gonzi stated time and again publicly that Public Healthcare will remain free as long as he is PM.Can we have at least the same statement from Dr Sant?
I judge people by their actions , they speak loader than words.Dr Gonzi never made us pay for medicines and promised that he will never do it.On the other hand ,we were never promised by Dr Sant that we had to pay fifty cents for our medicines , but he did it.

J. Borg

Feb 28th 2008, 22:48

It is ironic that a leader in opposition can criticize a healthcare system that has seen investment in a new hospital: more incentives for healthcare workers with a new agreement and a policy to make medicines more accesible to the citizen with the ¨Pharmacy of your choice scheme¨ - a far cry from the 1998 policy to charge a fee for medicines from the hospital and the classic fracas that led to the loss of some of the best doctors from Malta in 1976........now the ONLY way seems to try and belittle the PN´s policies with yet more lies.......I think we all know what we have today and certainly we know who we can trust and who is just interested in getting a go at playing the head honcho for a time......

Victor Laiviera

Feb 28th 2008, 22:35

It seems that the PN, in a desperate damage-limitation exercise, is pushing civil servants forward and forcing them to take the blame for its political mistakes and duplicity.

Shame,. shame, shame and shame again.

Kevin Chircop

Feb 28th 2008, 21:43

What an efficient civil service we're paying from our taxes. It took the author of the report 4 years to identify the mistake he made (sic)!!! And what a diligent cabinet we had, they did not even notice the error due to which Gonzipn had to cut short his cultural tour in Gozo. I would suggest that since the Prime Minister made use of the AFM helicopter for such an 'important matter of national(istic) interest', he should give this same right to the Gozitans and tourists alike who have been left stranded by Helisureste!

Joseph Aquilina

Feb 28th 2008, 21:36

Paola Demicoli, The report was created and immediately shot down by the Cabinet's Social Affairs Committee (most probably because it contained such comments in it). Anyways, Dr.Gonzi knows he is in the right - that is why he and the cabinet sued Dr.Sant. Dr.Sant on the other hand says everyone is corrupt ... but does nothing, why? The truth is that it was Dr.Sant that made (mostly old people) pay for medicine, NOT Dr.Gonzi! Here is the article: http://www.timesofmalta.com/election2008/view/20080228/news/gonzi-cabinet-sue-sant-for-libel

Joe Martinelli

Feb 28th 2008, 21:06

The Prime Minister and the whole Cabinet have sued Dr. Sant for calling them 'liars'.

Are we keeping track of the number of libel suits - someone must. If the PM and the Cabinet Ministers are suing individually, the number will be upwards of twenty by a good measure.

Too bad we will not know the score, for and against when the sentences are doled out since this will happen after the election.

The nerve this man has! How naive are his followers?!

Antonia C. Caruana

Feb 28th 2008, 20:44

Dear Daphne, What more proof do you need this time? You have it black on white and no matter how much you try to say, nothing is going to make the solid proof fade away. You can continue with your attitude against Dr Sant no worry but if you are professional enough admit it this time that this is a blow for the PN. As for Gonzi PN: very well done indeed for this Machiavellian campaign eh! Seems as if the end you want is justifying the means that you are taking! Very well done again! Thank God your count down is now on!

Owen Baldacchino

Feb 28th 2008, 20:28

..and as you have probably heard now Dr. Sant has earned 2 new libel suits. Edward Mifsud I wonder who is not saying the truth now...

J Zammit

Feb 28th 2008, 19:52

There has been a press release by the author of the report and now a libel suit by the PM with a request for urgency. It is obvious that this proposal by a civil servant was never discussed in Cabinet and was never government policy. But Labour seems to be desperate at the end of this campaign coming up with 'stories' that it should have come up long ago - only that if there were time enough they would have been comprehensively shown for what they are.

Antoine Borg

Feb 28th 2008, 19:41

How can an ex-PM, who has a track record full of anti-social actions, dare to attack anyone on this issue! We all know that it was Alfred Sant who introduced unjust fees on Government provided medicine! Now he is basing his campaign on advice which the Government and Cabinet did not even consider. Government receives advice and recommendations from many parties including Alfred Sant himself. This advice is not necessarily correct.
The best examples include Alfred Sant’s advice to the Government to devalue the Lira by 10%; not to join the EU and that Smart City is nothing but a property speculation exercise.
The strength of a PM and his cabinet is to consider the advice and decide appropriately. Advice and recommendations are not Government decisions! It is incredible how Alfred Sant is now basing his campaign on an advice the Government did not consider! A typical case of a drowning man clutching with a straw!

Mario Gauci

Feb 28th 2008, 19:30

I only have one thing to comment to Labour supporters. Consistently, both Dr. Eddie Fenech Adami and now Dr. Lawrence Gonzi have and are the preferred choice as a Prime Minister. One only has to look at the current voting question as posed in the onlineTimes. no more comments.

Kevin Chircop

Feb 28th 2008, 19:00

Can anyone please explain why thePrime Minister was rushed to the press conference by an AFM Helicopter!!!!! Why all the hassle when 'The Office of the Prime Minister said the claim in the report that the Cabinet agreed in principle on the introduction of fees was a misrepresentation of the Cabinet brief given to the experts to prepare the policy report.' A press release by the DOI would have sufficed and this could have saved the Maltese coffers some money but ah I forgot that Malta has the 'Finanzi fis-Sod'.

Alfred Cassar

Feb 28th 2008, 18:29

It is obvious that some time or another the question of payment for health services arises. If Dr Gonzi wanted to introduce it, he had all the time to do so ... but he didn't and now he is confirming that he won't in the next legislature. Victor Laiviera is requesting Dr Gonzi to resign. Using this measure Dr Sant should have resigned at least 20 times during the last 3 weeks.

James De Giorgio

Feb 28th 2008, 18:02

Gonzi said the Cabinet had only once discussed a memorandum dealing with the idea of introducing payments on the health service. The memo had been presented by the Health Minister but the ministers agreed that before any "definitive decisions could be taken" a more detailed policy proposal had to be submitted.
The report referred to by the opposition, Dr Gonzi insisted, was eventually presented to a sub-committee on social affairs within the Cabinet where it was shot down without reaching Cabinet proper. I hope that answers Paola Demicoli. Many thanks to the Times. I found it necessary to quote the bits and pieces that Paola Demicoli found convenient not to mention.

J. Degiorgio

Feb 28th 2008, 18:01

I work at hospital and personally this is a very sensitive issue. Dr Gonzi has been playing around for too long. But when it comes to health care I think we should all budge. Putting a price on health is simply unacceptable! At hospital I meet people (especially elderly) on a daily basis, who are struggling to cope with the costs of medication. We can only imagine what catastrophic effects this measure will have on certain families with members suffering from chronic conditions. I awaited Dr Gonzi's reply and it was as vague as it can get...talking about a sub-comitee and running away from the responsibility is impressing noone. The report is there and it's all the proof one needs. However some people seem to deny the clearest of evidence and won’t flinch at the thought of this insensitive proposal. Unbelievable! Now I find it really ironic that the Nationalist party, made such a big deal about the 50 c fee imposed on medical prescriptions! For all those whose alibi is that no such reform was introduced in the last 4 years: Please don't be naive...this reform was not going to be introduced when the move from St Luke's to Mater Dei was pending. It is meant to be introduced at the new hospital. Now that the move to Mater Dei has materialised a few months ago, it is too close to an election to make such changes.
Nevertheless, the measures have been proposed and with this government re-elected it's only a matter of time. My vote has gone to the Nationalist party in 1998 and 2003, but I certainly cannot say the same for this election. This time around there is no EU to condition my vote. I can weigh my options well, and this gaffe of the healthcare payment proposal is really the last straw that broke the camel's back...and besides, after 20 years, we can safely say that the Nationalist government has outstayed its welcome!!

Victor Laiviera

Feb 28th 2008, 17:25

No matter how many inches of comment are posted, they cannot hide the fact that the reports says (and I quote) "Cabinet has agreed in principle ......". That could only have been written after the memo was discussed in Cabinet. Dr Gonzi is being economical with the truth, to use an euphemism.

Charles Sant

Feb 28th 2008, 16:58

The author of the document on the financing of health services has, in a sworn statement, flatly discredited Alfred Sant's last minute attempt to gain political mileage by infusing nation-wide fear and apprehension with the hope of scoring a few points.
One can hardly count on Alfred Sant on such matters. He promised heaven on earth in 1996, only to levy charges on medicines and certificates the moment he set foot in Castille.
Track record, apart, it transpires that the report commissioned was drawn up by the Ministry of Health way back in 2004 and suggested that one should consider the cost of free health.
This report was authored by the then Director General within the Ministry of Health who himself states that the contents of the report reflect his personal views of health services in Malta.
As a matter of fact, when presented to the Cabinet Committee on Social Policy, the Committee's Chairman asked the Director General to withdraw the document since it did not reflect government policy. Contrary to Alfred Sant, this document never reached cabinet level much less decided upon or agreed with! Labour claims that the Cabinet 'agreed to these proposals in principle' are not only cheap political spin, but a confirmation that Alfred Sant can reach unimaginable depths of bedeveilment to achieve his political aspirations.

Owen Baldacchino

Feb 28th 2008, 13:40

Dear Edward Mifsud, the whole point is that Dr Sant is bending the facts. The report was presented to a sub-committee on social affairs within the Cabinet where it was shot down without reaching Cabinet proper.

Yes I do care about statistics, although I am not obsessed. You can maybe google the word 'statistics' to get an 'indipendent' definition. Here it is: Statistics is a mathematical science pertaining to the collection, analysis, interpretation or explanation, and presentation of data.

Hence you can arrive to conclusions on the data (facts) collected unlike the 'politika tad-duhhan' that the MLP has adopted besides the mud throwing. For example in 2007 tourism figures grew by 11% and the financial services sector by 14%. What about the 4% economic growth rate of Malta which is higher than the European average? This was achieved only by the PN government with Dr. Gonzi at the helm.

I mentioned only 3 statistics. Can you mention any statistics indicating good economic growth during the notorious 22 months of Labour government?

Paola Demicoli

Feb 28th 2008, 00:51

This is the official governmental report that Sant presented says:-

On Page 11 the report says: “Fees imposed by regulations for the provision of health care or health support services to Maltese and foreign citizens. The Cabinet has agreed in principle to this concept, but fees for Maltese citizens will not be introduced for the moment due to their political underpinnings.”

how on Earth can Gonzi say that it was never discussed in Cabinet when the report says Cabinet agress with it!!!!!

good riddance of PN, I say.

Daphne Caruana Galizia

Feb 27th 2008, 23:45

I find it interesting that at least two people here have suggested that this should be the end of Gonzi's career: resignation a week before a general election about a four-year-old report that he had rejected out of hand. Obviously, they rushed in to comment after listening to their hero on Super One, and without actually reading the report they're commenting beneath (and about).

Meanwhile, Sant's torrent of lies, fibs, conjecture and rumour goes unquestioned by these same people. Unbelievably, he again insisted that De La Salle is introducing a reception class when he was speaking during a BA debate on TVM earlier this evening. And this when Brother Martin at the college was all over the television news (TVM as well lest you suggest otherwise) denying it and annoyed because he had spent the day fielding telephone calls from panicky parents. I wouldn't even trust him to babysit my dogs, let alone my country.

Joe Martinelli

Feb 27th 2008, 23:42

So, you guys siding with Sant and accusing Gonzi that he lied about fees for health care - now may I ask how many libel suits against Dr. Sant, the MLP and its media have been initiated and how many against the NP ?

My last count is about 20 against the MLP for 1 against the NP.

Does this mean that the MLP out-lies the NP by twenty times?

James De Giorgio

Feb 27th 2008, 23:31

Yaaawn,,, Edward Mifsud the Cabinet didn't even discuss the proposal, let alone agreed on it in principle. At least if you're going to continue watching one news, try to be a bit objective and take it with a pinch of salt.

Edward Mifsud

Feb 27th 2008, 23:12

Well then Owen Baldacchino you did not repeat the "minn mhux maghna kontra taghna" claim because you know its not ture.

Your Gonzipn can continue with his lies, the memo presented today has it clear that the cabinet had agreed in principle. It seem that this is not the end of the story, more is yet to come in the coming days.

You seem to be obsessed with statistics, but all you have to do is ask the court registry for the cases decided in the tribunal for the investigation of injuctices. But I assure you that they are alot.

Oh, of course there a few that have really done well under the PN. "Biex hadd ma jibqa lura" ha, ha, good one for a joke.

After 20 years we still do not know you was after the bombs of the 80's, the brutal killing of Karen Grech and Raymond Caruana. Someone, once said he knew all, maybe he will tell us some day. I am sure that there is a bare footed guy around who knows all about the obscure happenings of those times.

Bernard Cauchi

Feb 27th 2008, 22:37

I believe that after nearly 4 years of issuing this document, Dr. Gonzi proved that he would not be introducing a payment on Health care.

Even if this report has reached cabinet, what is wrong if someone considers all proposals and dismisses the ones that are not acceptable.

This is another mud slinging tactic of the MLP. Maybe Dr. Gonzi is right to think that the MLP is in a state of panic.

Joseph Micallef

Feb 27th 2008, 22:34

The vehemence by which the MLP is grappling itself to this document is very much the same like the desperate effort of the battered boxer holding to the ring ropes to avoid the count of ten. But do you realise what you are defending – A policy document that in 2004 made a suggestion to impose a fee for health services and independently at what level it was discussed, de facto the suggestions contained therein have never been accepted or implemented. A true case where extreme hopes are born from extreme miseries.

Fleur Hili

Feb 27th 2008, 22:17

Why do you always have to bend facts Dr.Sant??? Every time you slip,(yesterday at Maghtab) you come out with a fact which is not true. Where does it state in the report that it IS going to be implyed on us after the election.......and was the report by Dr.Deguara or Dr. Gonzi? Was it agreed? Why did the labour cabinet not protest if it was accepted by the parliament? OH GOD help us, if this was not so serious, it would be hilarious!!! By the way who was that elderly gentleman on VICEVERSA,who did not want to express his opinion, as he clearly did not agree with what was being said about this fiasco? Give up Mr.Victor Laiviera and the rest or different DNAed people!

Albert Gauci Cunningham

Feb 27th 2008, 22:09

The only Government since 1964 the day this country achieved independence up to now who introduced direct taxation on health was the MLP under Dr.Sant between 1996-1998............and what did we get in return?.........The Bugibba Promenade!!!................Many Labour supporters often scream and shout reminding us that the PN has been there for 20 years and whenever Gonzi opens a street or terminal they are the first to tell us how little this is......but now they want us to forget that the PN has been in power for so long and want us to believe a report whose contents for full years after its publication have not been implemented, they want us to believe that they weren't in government for 22 months and introduced a 50c charge.
Whether 50c is a lot or not is just not the argument here. It's useless trying to desperately come up with such a stunt now.......facts speak for themselves.....go to Tal Qroqq and you'll see Mater Dei....one of Europe's best hospitals...... speak to the doctors and nurses who have just signed one of the best collective agreements in these last years!!......this is clearly the MLP Pjan ghall-Bidu Gdid spin, spin, spin, untrue.........somebody somewhere will always believe you!! And even some who won't will always "spin" themselves around to start believing ...if this is MLP in Opposition God knows what will MLP be in power would mean!!

James De Giorgio

Feb 27th 2008, 22:02

David Farrugia, please read properly. Throwing mud might work with Sant vis-a-vis labourites but it wont work with you vis-a-vis us.
It is stated clearly that this proposal never reached the cabinet, but was presented to a sub committe which found it unjustified.
And I ask you to use your intelligence; it's four years ago. During these last four years have you ever paid a cent to be hospitalised at Saint Luke's or Mater Dei?
I can answer for you here. NO.

After all where's the "Gonzi lie" that Sant and his faithful followers in this forum are harping about? Gonzi said it was never discussed in the cabinet and has proved it.

Committes are there to discuss proposals, however improbable they may be. Yet Mr Laiviera wants Gonzi to resign because a committe was doing it's job. U ħallina ngħixu Vic!

Owen Baldacchino

Feb 27th 2008, 21:31

This is in response to Edward Mifsud's comment.

At the time of the day I made my earlier comments, I had only read about Dr. Sant's allegations. I am also of the opinion that there are two sides of the coin so I have attended the discussion in Naxxar where Dr. Gonzi mentioned he immediately shot down the proposal to introduce health care fees in 2004. In this sense I do not feel Dr. Gonzi betrayed the Maltese people in any way.

Funnily enough it was under Dr Sant, that the 50 cents fee (tax?) was introduced for the prescription of medicines and that the subsequent PN government immediately removed it.

One other thing Mr Edward Mifsud, Dr. Gonzi always says that the PN government is a government for all the Maltese citizens and not just for the PN supporters 'biex hadd ma jibqa lura'. I invite you to provide accurate statistics for your claim 'There are tens of court decisions that show how may Labourites have been discriminated against and treated like second class citizens' and also how many PN supporters were beaten up in the dark days of the MLP.

Edward Mifsud

Feb 27th 2008, 21:30

Dear fellow Maltese, it's very plain to see. Dr Gonzi denied ever discussing the introduction of payments for health when asked repeatedly by journalists.

The document revealed today has it in black on white:

The cabinet agrees in principle, BUT will not implement it yet on political considerations.

So, vote for Gonzipn and if elected the measure will be implemented, because you knew about it and you still returned him to power. He will have the strong hands to go ahead, with your blessings.

Paul Farrugia

Feb 27th 2008, 21:26

Have all these people still trying to make a fuss about this actually read the article?

"The document was presented to the Cabinet's Social Affairs Committee where the proposal to introduce fees on healthcare was shot down immediately and never even made it to the Cabinet proper.

Dr Gonzi said the proof that the Nationalist Party did not intend to impose healthcare fees could be seen in the fact that no such reform was introduced in the past four years. The fact of the matter, Dr Gonzi said, was that when faced with a financial crisis, Dr Sant imposed a 50c fee on medical prescriptions while the present government had managed to bring about a turnaround of the country's finances without imposing any healthcare charges.

Dr Gonzi stressed that the PN government had no intention of imposing charges on health care.

The Office of the Prime Minister said the claim in the report that the Cabinet agreed in principle on the introduction of fees was a misrepresentation of the Cabinet brief given to the experts to prepare the policy report."

A Zammit

Feb 27th 2008, 20:56

To continue with david farrugia's comment below, Here is Dr Sant, sensing trouble ahead, and coming out with an invention to turn the tide (remember the stipends story in detail anyone?). I do expect many many more shocking "revelations" from Sant in the coming days... There is only one consolation.....floaters have a prerequisite... they necessarily need to have a brain and they do use it!

Joe Martinelli

Feb 27th 2008, 20:53

Yet one of the last straws left to which the MLP is clutching to.

Nice try guys.

michael catania

Feb 27th 2008, 20:40

the consevatives have where it suits them short memories.We already pay for our health services,anyone remember when VAT was at 15%and the reason given to raise it to 18%. As usual all they can talk about is the 50cents that was charged on medicine.

Jeff Dimech

Feb 27th 2008, 20:30

As a pn supporter or rather used to be, Alfred Sant is backing up my decision to choose him, since hes showing us the lies of Gonzipn. In 2003 they denied that vat was to increase from 15 to 18% in 2008 they denied this health care issue, but in contrast to 2003, Labour now have some evidence which prooves their point. Yes Gonzi your lieing to all the maltese people and to the beloved elderly of ours.

David Farrugia

Feb 27th 2008, 20:21

Here we have Gonzi cornered and caught off balance. One can see that he was not prepared for it. The cabinet memo shows that it (the cabinet) agreed to introduce charges and fees. Those voting GonziPN can now understand his hidden agenda.

Clint Taliana

Feb 27th 2008, 20:17

Lets face it, might have been a lapsus and the cabinet had a lapsus when for months they discussed this issue. Face the truth and thats it.... thats the problem with politics in Malta when Fredu says this half of the country agrees and the other half disagrees.... nothing wrong so far.

But when, I deny a report written by myself more than once, I don't think is proper ethics!

Tony Caruana

Feb 27th 2008, 20:16

Dr Gonzi had also stressed that hunting in spring will continue. I for one will never believe him again !

Geoffrey Ghigo

Feb 27th 2008, 19:58

But is really health care free today? With the present long waiting lists many have to resort to private hospitals & clinics and pay handsomely accordingly.

John Scerri

Feb 27th 2008, 19:51

Dear friend Victor Laiviera.
I admire the way in which you are always capable in your own way to see the bottle half empty instead of half full.
Could you kindly mention a few , maybe even one or two good things, that this Government did under Lawrence Gonzi's leadership?
Please do not reply by asking me another question ?
I can mention good things Dr. Sant did with MLP .
One of the best he ever did and is still doing is try to change the MLP image to a positive one by removing certain agressive attitudes. Well done Dr. Sant.
Dr Sant is doing his best in the interest of our people to convince the electorate that MLP is the right choice..nothing wrong with this... but unfortunately some of his closest followers are doing a lot of harm to MLP's image when certain adjectives are openly spelled out against those who are not MLP supporters. This is a real pity . and it is not fair for Dr. Sant.
In his own words keeping 'Cool and Relaxed' will give a much better impression. His closest followers should keep cool too dont you think?
I am not an MLP supporter but i respect Dr. Sant's opinion because he has the fundamental right to express it. as much as I have the fundamental right to express mine. This is healthy democracy in action.

Edward Cassar

Feb 27th 2008, 19:47

So the document was not discussed by the cabinet, eh? But it was a policy document prepared by the Ministry for Health, right? I did not know that the Ministry for Health is not part of the Nationalist Government!!!

May I remind everyone that John Dalli in his 2004 Budget raised VAT from 15% to 18% and the extra money had to go to finance the health sector. And what did we get? A Mater Dei costing tens of millions of Liri more than planned. So we were charged after all for 'state of the art' healthcare, indirectly, but we were!

Rupert Cefai

Feb 27th 2008, 19:29

Had it been any other country, this would have marked the end of Dr. Gonzi's political career.

It would be really interesting to know who forwarded the cabinet memo to the MLP. Is this the result of the GonziPN strategy, his own ministers giving information to the labour camp? Is this the way the present ministers are showing their appreciation for being sidelined? I wonder.

Reuben Balzan

Feb 27th 2008, 19:22

Glenn Cassar, if PN wanted to charge for the health services it had ample time to do that since 2004. The truth is that health services have been kept free by PN since then (unlike MLP who had started charging) and in the meantime the finances have been strengthened without the need to resort to charging for health services. PN's manifesto clearly states that health services shall remain free. Gonzi has promised that too.

Who do you think I'm willing to believe?

Victor Laiviera

Feb 27th 2008, 19:17

What lame excuses! Surely the PN can do better that that!

Gonzi has only one honourable way out of this mess - resign immediately.

J Amato-Gauci

Feb 27th 2008, 19:10

How many times does Dr 'Shoot from the hip' Sant have to make a statement or a proposal, and get shot down time and time again. Not by the PN, but by the experts. Obviousy Sant is too stubborn to see, but he's constantly digging himself deeper and deeper into a hole. Let's hope this time he stays there!!

N.GRECH

Feb 27th 2008, 19:06

There we are, Dr. Gonzi's detailed reply says it all.

c scerri

Feb 27th 2008, 19:05

Now it seems that what Sant produced was nothing more than a draft policy document (these are prepared by experts in the field and not politicians) that was NOT DISCUSSED at cabinet level but at a sub committee i.e. before it comes to cabinet!!!! So Point 1 - Gonzi did not say an untruth-this issue was never discussed at Cabinet level Point 2 - Alfred Sant is trying very hard to hide the real facts that it was him that introduced some type of payment in the health system and the fact that all of his election promises have been shot down by the experts in the field!

Simon Schembri

Feb 27th 2008, 19:00

Health services are still free till this very day and this notwithstanding whatever may have been discussed 4 years ago.

If i remember correctly when someone else governed us for less than 2 years he managed to introduce charges on our health services.

need we add anything else!

Paola demicoli

Feb 27th 2008, 18:44

rerad this:-

"The Office of the Prime Minister said the claim in the report that the Cabinet agreed in principle on the introduction of fees was a misrepresentation of the Cabinet brief given to the experts to prepare the policy report. "

DO YOU BELIEVE IT?!!! I don't....

John Azzopardi

Feb 27th 2008, 18:29

How ridiculous can people get! The report is dated more than 3 years ago! Had government intended to introduce fees they would have back then so that would be enough time for the public to accept them, not leave it and risk the report being used against it at a vulnerable time. Grow up.

Paola Demicoli

Feb 27th 2008, 18:29

I read Gonzi's reply but still the questions are:-

Did PN cabinet consider to put a price tag on health? YES!

Did Gonzi recently said they never consdiered it? YES

Did Gonzi lie? YES

It is obvious that it never made it to parliament (yet) otherwise it would have been introduced. Nobody said that it was been introduced!!

And if he lied once, what assurance do we have he is not lieing again in the 2nd reply?!!!

Vote PN for more lies, corruption, and spin.

Charmaine Calleja

Feb 27th 2008, 18:22

How can we believe Dr Gonzi ?

Because the memo published says "The Cabinet has agreed in principle".

He was just waiting to win his first election as leadet before implimenting it.

Its crystal clear

Mark Camilleri

Feb 27th 2008, 18:10

and there we go...Sant's accusations thrown back in his face as always.

but i ask you...do you really want to give this country's helm to a man that his sole purpose in this electoral campaign was to throw mud at the government? the election is almost a week away and Dr. Sant instead of explaining what he intends to do is wasting his time trying to make the PN look bad. First the Maghtab yesterday then this today? i am curious to see what he has in store for tomorrow.

we obviously won't know the 100% truth about this before the elections but personally if i had to believe one person between the two that would be Dr. Gonzi hands down.

his credentials are not only given by the local entrepreneurs and other experts but from the EU itself so yes as the PN adverts say better safe then sorry.

or if you wish...better the devil you know that the devil you don't know. :)

Edward Mifsud

Feb 27th 2008, 18:09

I have just heard Gonzipn with his own voice deny that "he has or ever had" plans to introduce health payments. It's useless do deny now, he has been caught red handed. Mr O Baldacchino listen to Dr Sant's speaches instead of repeating the PN's propaganda. As a graduate you should know that one must always refer to the original sources. He always says the "minn mhux kontra taghna hu maghna". It is the past PN governments that have adopted the attitude of "minn mhux maghna hu kontra taghna." There are tens of court decisions that show how may Labourites have been discriminated against and treated like second class citizens.

Angelo vassallo

Feb 27th 2008, 18:03

I do not why all this fuss on the health scheme. I humbly advice all those who are writing against the Prime Minister, to wait to here the another side of the story first. You are all jumping the gun. If Dr. Sant says something, it is definately NOT the Sunday Gospel. I am pretty sure that Dr. Lawrence Gonzi, given the chance, he will give us a really plausible version of what actaully happened.

A.Laferla

Feb 27th 2008, 17:59

Thank you Dr Gonzi 1st of all for not introducing any payments on the health services although you were consulted to do so, this goes to show that we have a prime minister we should be proud of and he does first of all what is in the interests of all the Maltese people.. Im afraid Dr Sant is now bringing up a memo which is 4 yrs old, when he has been the one to tell us lets forget the past and think of the present and future... come on Dr Sant you could be a bit more credible then this, and i am scared you are bringing this up , so that if you are in government you will once again start charging on health services and say that Gonzi was going to do it anyway.We all know what you are capable of doing.. thats why you dont want us to speak about the past.

Peter Cremona

Feb 27th 2008, 17:59

What is important is today and future issues, we should be discussing about going forward and not backwards.

Charles Saliba

Feb 27th 2008, 17:44

I shall not mention Dr Sant`s misjudgements and u-turns since he`s been leading the MLP. It`s sufficient to just mention the gaffes and plain lies he`s been dishing out daily throughout this election campaign. I`m sure that this latest `scoop` would end up like all the others before it - a big burst bubble!

Maria Dolores Fenech

Feb 27th 2008, 17:42

The cabinet did not only discuss, but AGREE with the introduction on payments for health services. It does not matter when it was taken into consideration, Dr Gonzi said that the cabinet did NEVER even discuss it.
You can fool some people some of the time,
Your can fool all the people some of the time,
BUT YOU CANNOT FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME!

albert fiorentino

Feb 27th 2008, 17:34

It seems to me Dr Sant is lashing out in the dark maybe something will stick.Seems to me that he has his back against the wall.Some might call it self defence .Its a shame we don't have a decent oppostion.

Victor Laiviera

Feb 27th 2008, 17:28

Marco Spiteri - "grown ups" tell the truth and take responsibility for their actions - not try and wriggle out.

C. Camilleri

Feb 27th 2008, 17:27

How can people trust again Gonzi? Well done Dr. Alfred Sant for showing to us the intentions of the present PN government. We have a courageous man to show us what are the true intentions of GonziPn because nobody knows what will they do if re-elected... they always keep everything secret. Dr. Sant we believe in you, give us the change the majority wants!

Clive Demicoli

Feb 27th 2008, 17:18

I suggest that everyone reads the Health Financing Reform policy proposal of December 2004 issued by the Ministry of health. You will immediately realise that Labour is misleading. The quote is taken from a section entitled options and it is clear that this option has not been taken up by the government as this would have been implemented by now.

Mark Grech

Feb 27th 2008, 17:09

I'm sorry but if my memory serves me right, the increase of Vat from 15% to 18% was actually to cover for the increase in health services. This, if I'm not mistaken, was plainly stated at the time of the increase. The second option was a contributary sheme. Does that constitute a fee or, maybe, we are mixing financial terminology like when Labour says it is giving grants when in fact they are conditional loans to those buying their first property?

Leo Borg Marks

Feb 27th 2008, 17:09

People please think! These matters should never be a political issue. It happens here because we are so used to having everything for everyone for free. Those in favour, hands up, OK. Those against, hands up. Ok.

Andrew Sciberras

Feb 27th 2008, 17:07

To Philip Camilleri who said:This comment may be seen by some as beside the point but would paying for health care in some form of contributory scheme be such a bad thing? Yes, it is beside the point. The point in this issue is that Dr Gonzi consistently did not say the truth, insisting on more than one occasion that fees for health services were never discussed in the cabinet.

Mario Debono

Feb 27th 2008, 17:02

As one of thhe main architects of the POYC system, i have dealt with Dr Gonzi on health matters more than most. I can attest to the fact that when we as GRTU suggested that patients will start paying something for their service, his vehement "no, over my dead body" still revebrates in my ears. It is a fact of life that all costs of the POYC agreement are being borne by government in a big way. For accuracy's sake, lets tell the truth. Gonzi always reacted badly whenever we mentioned charging patients something small, way back in 2003. Note even a cent, he said. Not only for POYC, but for screening services that we offered as well. He said this. Countless times. Over and over again. I know. I dealt with the man. I was there. SO were a lot of people. So no, I cannot believe Dr Sant when he says this. I repeat ......his words were " you will not charge anyone. Over my dead body !" We are both still alive, the patient is not being charged, and the POYC benefits are there to be enjoyed by all. What a victory for Malta and the patient!

Pierre André Aquilina

Feb 27th 2008, 17:01

I look forward to the Prime Minister's reaction to Dr Sant's press conference. Call me a PN apologist, but the report in question dates back to December 2004, so at a minimum we ought to consider the prevailing financial situation at that point in time. Furthermore, this is cabinet we are talking about: I am fairly sure that discussions and associated advice such as this occur every day. There is a difference, however, between discussing something and actualising something (for better or for worse). Maybe there were other mechanisms that were deployed to offset the (looming?) possibility of introducing health-related payments. You cannot level a charge against someone in connection with something that was being discussed but that - at least three and a half years down the line - was never actualised. Whether this is an indication of the present Government's inclinations on the subject, that is another matter, and it is precisely in this context that I await the Prime Minister's reaction. At any rate, for Dr Sant to level a credibility charge is a tad rich: he has his share pronouncing one thing, but implementing something completely different, nay the exact opposite.

Mark Pisani

Feb 27th 2008, 17:01

I find the comments by Victor Laiviera and co hilarious, we cannot believe Gonzi now, we cannot vote for him now - Like you ever were going to? You probably clapped at Fredu when he said that you or your friends and family would lose their job if Malta entered the EU - same philosophy as when people used to clap at Mintoff when he would insult them.

Next point... oohh ohh, 4 years ago there was a discussion about health payments! Well done Dr. Sant, can you please explain what these payments where going to be on and by whom? By insurances (eg when someone has health insurance and chooses to go to public hospital)...

E. Tabone

Feb 27th 2008, 17:00

Let's hypothetically say Dr Sant is right about this one... Wasn't it Dr Sant who introduced the flat rate of 50c on prescriptions which most of you (Dr Sant included) are conveniently forgetting?... Is Dr Sant ready to admit that this hadn't been a good move? Didn't he say he had "no regrets"? So he probably thinks it actually was a good move, so who does he think he is to accuse Gonzi of this now? Go look in a mirror Dr Sant .

Joseph Mizzi

Feb 27th 2008, 16:59

Anthony Xuereb - The Cabinet Memo is dated December 2004. That's only three years ago!

And Mater Dei was opened only a few months ago July 2007 ... when the country was already in Election mode ... last year, it was very much politically underpinned!

And GonziPN is asking us to trust him ...

Thanks but No thanks.

A Abela

Feb 27th 2008, 16:57

It seems the MLP is leaving myths for the last electoral weeks..

Marco Spiteri

Feb 27th 2008, 16:49

Oh let's grow up shall we? Has it happened - yes or no? Did Dr. Gonzi charge us for health services - NO!!! People speak about political underpinnings - what about Sant's modifications - sorry misprints? what about the no i am against the EU, yes i'm in favour? the surcharge issue? the overtime issue? the whole VAT mock up? Please stop me...

Owen Baldacchino

Feb 27th 2008, 16:35

In reply to Joe Galea, I think you totally took my comment out of context. I was referring to 'the truth coming out at the right time at the wrong moment'. The truth is that the MLP does not have a proper agenda for Malta and I citied the proposals aimed at youths as an example. Your attitude is the same as Dr Sant's attitude 'Min mhux maghna huwa kontra taghna'.

The question of whether the health service shall remain free is yet to be seen and I am sure Dr. Gonzi has a reply for this. However note the PN manifesto has measures aimed at reducing the price of medicines, improving healthcare services and reducing waiting lists.

And finally....no I am not a University student. I did graduate last year and I already followed other courses for free under the MyPotential scheme thanks to the PN government.

Saviour Camilleri

Feb 27th 2008, 16:32

Shame on you Dr. Gonzi! You have forgotten your own party and you are running head on and taking us with you against a concrete wall. By lying to us all you will be loosing your credibility. Thinking back the health minister Dr.Deguara hinted that, and I quote,'if our economy is strong health services would remain free' Who can guarantee that the economy would remain strong. Dr Gonzi already hinted that in the near future we are going to be effected by recession. There goes sound economy. I will not trust you Dr. Gonzipn any more. The surcharge would only be stable up to June....remember the hedging agreement would expire in June.

Joseph Micallef

Feb 27th 2008, 16:27

Dear Dr. San, clutching at 4 year old Straws speaks volumes. And what about your scaremongering campaign sermon published on the today's Times!!! Simply incredible!!!!

Victor Laiviera

Feb 27th 2008, 16:20

The memo is not 4 years old, Antjhoy Xuereb - just 3 (Dec 2004 - Feb 2008). And the important fact is that it was presented when Dr Gonzi was already Prime Minister. So he was not telling the truth when he said that his cabinet never discussed fees for health services.

That is the bottom line.

Paola Demicoli

Feb 27th 2008, 16:19

The fact is that Gonzi denied (very recently and on plenty of occassions) that they ever considered this... when now we now they did. This is an outright lie... and in a serious country it is grounds for impeachment - figure out re-election!

David S Ganado

Feb 27th 2008, 16:18

Anthony Xuereb is right, Freddy is picking on a memo of discussions taken place in 2004. Just because the cabinet MAY have been considering the principle of charging for healthcare does not mean it WILL be doing so!! Options change with time and 3 years is a lifetime in Politics. When we consider Freddy and his friends change their minds even after issuing their manifesto (Oh sorry, its was a misprint right!!) so it seems like a case of the pot calling the kettle black!!

Cyrus Engerer

Feb 27th 2008, 16:12

It is strange that such a press conference in given by Sant after factually one can see that in his 22 months in office, he introduced a tax on medicinals, whilst in the past 4 years of Gonzi's PN all health services remained free of charge, no taxes were introduced and we have had the promises that the health sector will remain free of charge in the next 5 years of a Gozni administration.

This press conference leads to once conclusion...who is most credbile GONZI PN or SANT MLP...looking back at the past few years of our political history..it is easy to see the way in which Gonzi and Sant led their governments and also Sant's opposition.

The promises that Sant MLP did prior to the 1996 campaign were all lies, since when in government he acted differently (Stipends, drydocks management, taxes, corruption, cost of living, stability)...on the other hand we have seen in the past 4 years the country being led by Gonzi PN who has managed to bring stability, certainty and progress in the country and this has been awarded with certificates from the EU (Euro adoption), credit rating agencies etc.

I think that the choice in this election is simple: who is most credible? Who has been proven to bring stability to the country?

As gonzi says...we should judge them by what they have done, by facts...words in press conferences are easy to be said and can impress easily..however facts are what they are and undoubtedly....factually both Sant and Gonzi have impressed...Sant impressed us with the instability, lack of credibility and with his U-turns...whilst Gonzi impressed us by the way Malta has not only become an EU member but has kept his promises and we are now also moving towards being amongst the best EU member state,.

Glen Cassar

Feb 27th 2008, 16:08

The 50c on medicines is more than JUSTIFIED everyone agreed with that measure, it prevented wastage in medicines.
Although the memo was in 2004 gonziPN are against zero price in health, definitely if gonziPN is re-elected healthcare will no more be at zero price. Vote Gonzi Pay for your health!
GonziPn created tonnes of taxes; surcharge, eco tax and to all the students he also halved the stipends, many students lost between Lm1500-Lm2000 in stipends.

Philip Camilleri

Feb 27th 2008, 16:06

This comment may be seen by some as beside the point but would paying for health care in some form of contributory scheme be such a bad thing?

A tiny but proud nation like ours, with around 169,000 gainfully employed can't really expect that our national insurance contributions are enough to fund the latest medicines.

Take cancer care for example, where a year's worth of a breast cancer medication can cost upwards of 20,000 Euros per patient! Think of what this will do to our national debt as we have more than 1000 new cancer patients per year even if only half of them require similar expensive medications. If we want world-class health care I'm afraid we must be prepared to contribute towards it.

Joe Galea

Feb 27th 2008, 16:05

Dear Claude Brincat, Fairytales are nice but I think they are more adequate for children. It doesn't mean that if Gonzi said there will be a surplus by 2010 it means it's true. The former PN also had billboards finanzi fis-Sod and after the elections VAT shot up to 18%, a myriad of taxes including surcharge and REDUCING the STIPENDS. If GonziPn agreed to charge the Health Sector undercover, then surely it will be done. So swallow the fact that your leader is lying to you.

Neville Agius

Feb 27th 2008, 16:04

Dear Mr. Anthony Xuereb,

just for your information even the proposl Re. reception classes was published way back in 2006 so I cannot understand your reaction.

... Its always the same when labour makes the public aware of what's happening then all the supposed independent media is against while when pn does the same then as if nothing has happened.

Anyways same old stories....

Edward Mifsud

Feb 27th 2008, 16:00

Oh, how illuminating, after the loads of comments remind us of the 70's and 80's we should forget about the past now. This is a repeat of 2003. Dr Fenech Adami had denied an increase in VAT from 15% to 18% if he was re-elected. What happened? We were told that the increase was to cover the ever rising cost on Mater Dei. Well, if GONIPN is re-elected he will tell us that VAT from 18% to 25% is to cover the unsustainable cost of health.

This is a real Deja' Vu!!!

N.GRECH

Feb 27th 2008, 15:54

Once again, I am certain that this is yet another bending of facts. Since December 2004 , over
three years have passed and it clearly seems that this matter has not been raised again as otherwise
Dr. Sant would have mentioned it too……or is he keeping it up his sleeve for another day when
Dr. Sant decides to say yet again another bending fact….. !!
The very fact that PM Gonzi has repeatedly said that he and his party have not been perfect as
there are lots of other things to be done and to be seen to, puts him and his party miles ahead
of Dr. Sant, who on his part simply says that he has “no regrets”. It is evident and now more than ever
that for the good of our country and the future of our children, it is the PN that should be given yet another mandate. With all due respect to the MLP and Dr. Sant , the current party in opposition are clearly not yet ready to govern . They need another five years in opposition to pull themselves together and also ensure that by that time their manifesto is indeed proof-read ,so that there will not be so many misprints…!!

Tonio Farrugia

Feb 27th 2008, 15:53

So now it`s the character killing game once again. In 1996 it was against Fenech Adami. In 2008 it is against Gonzi. Good hunting Dr. Sant but I am sure the best man will eventually win.

Matthew Bonello

Feb 27th 2008, 15:50

Look who's talking about credibility!!

Fredu Sant who promised to remove VAT......and introduced a worse version of it! Fredu Sant, Mr.U turns himself, who tried to sell us partnership and now addresses meetings with the EU flags in front of him! And what about his visits to Farsons and De la Rue recently. Don't you remember him scaremongering that these and many other companies would be closing down if we join the EU? Now , he goes visiting them and cites them as examples to follow. Ha, credibility indeed!!

Didn't you hear him say on Bondiplus that De La Salle are about to introduce his latest brainwave, the reception class? Sure enough the headmaster yesterday confirmed that this was simply not true. Another pure invention ........and the list gets longer and longer.......

Than again, what do you expect from someone who still claims that Partnership won the referendum!!

Charmaine Calleja

Feb 27th 2008, 15:50

The fact is that the memo itself says that it won't be implemented now because "of political underpinnings.”
Its more than clear that GONZIPN is waiting till the election.
Sorry Dr Gonzi, better luck next time, someone from your cabinett leaked this document and your intentions are now exposed.

Noel Abela

Feb 27th 2008, 15:48

I believe in Dr.Gonzi because as he says 'Iva flimkien kollox possibli'
Dr.Sant has not explained how he is going to decrease the waiting list at Mater Dei Hospital by 15%, as the english say 'It is easier said than done'

Keith Goodlip

Feb 27th 2008, 15:46

This is what the people need. Real Undeniable proof.

M Debono

Feb 27th 2008, 15:40

I do remember Dr Sant saying "two measures, two weights" and "let the historians answer about the 2003 election and referendum" and "lets now look forward"

Well Dr Sant, stick to your words (opps sorry you never stick to your words) and lets look forward indeed. So give me a good reason why you are talking about past issue of the PN if we "should look forward" !!!

Anthony Xuereb

Feb 27th 2008, 15:37

For everybody's information this is 2008. The cabinet memo is four years old. If GONZIPN wanted really to start charging money for the health sector, then he had the best excuse ever when he opened Mater Dei hospital. The fact that he did not do is proof enough to all of us that health sector will remain free.

On the opposite, when Dr. Sant was in power, the only thing he did to the health care sector, was to indroduce the 50 c fee for free medicines..

Let's not be fooled. If Dr. Sant had really good arguments he would attack and provide alternatives to the PN electoral manifesto and a 4 year old paper which was never implemented.

grow up.

Claude Brincat

Feb 27th 2008, 15:36

I doubt whether health services will really be charged since our economy is doing well.
If we weren't doing well we wouldn't be aiming for a surplus by 2010 would we?
SO i don't think we'll the government will ever charge for health services, irrespective of what was reported 4 years ago in 2004.

Joe Galea

Feb 27th 2008, 15:35

Dear Owen Baldacchino you have placed your comment next to the wrong article. here the point is that GonziPn wants to make Public Health against payment. Secondly, the attack of MLP was on the faction of Hamalli organised by PN and DCG. Most probably you were one of them. Ask yourself where are the true hamalli now!!
Joe Muscat I think you mistakenly wrote Sant instead of GonziPN, because everyone knows that the one-man party clings to every breath Dr. Sant and MLP take.

Andrew Sciberras

Feb 27th 2008, 15:33

To Ian Bugeja who said:Only thing to note is that in 1996 government a 50c payment was introduced on "free" medicines.

WOW!!! is that all you've got to say. We are not talking about fees here... we are talking about consistent lying!

Joe Galea

Feb 27th 2008, 15:28

Who is not saying the truth now? Who is not to be trusted now? These are the issues that should be given importance, not titubating upon a proposal like the reception class scaremongering people without founded information but based on lies.
Well he misled before the election about the VAT and see what happened.
Now Gonzi is not saying the truth about Health..hehe why shall we trust him now?
Why shall we trust Gonzi about the resits? Ask the teachers especially in Junior Lyceums what have been told for the past 3 years about the resits? I was one of them.
Gonzi did not say the truth about the Maghtab..."Biex anke il-Maghtab iwarrad".....yes with rubbish?
He said his ministers made a good job...why did he make a DEAL to remove them?
MEPA? Well he admitted that Mepa is a disaster..now he wants us to believe that he being the GOD Almighty is going to solve the MEPA Problems...beware Ramla Hamra!!!

Joseph Aquilina

Feb 27th 2008, 15:23

Mr.Laiviera you always speak after hearing one side of the story ... such an attitude, apart from making look stupid, also shows the attitude most MLP supporters take. The current Prime Minister, Dr.Gonzi, has two coming interviews next week, where I am sure he will comment on this report. Although deep in my heart I know it is very hard for you to listen anything else then the SuperOne TV creed, I encourage you to listen at what Dr.Gonzi has to say - not only about this but also on how he plans to address the other issues our country is or could be facing in the near future. Additionally, sounds very fishy to me that Dr.Sant pulled that report only now, now that PN seems to close the gap with MLP.

Andrew Sciberras

Feb 27th 2008, 15:22

The whole point of this is not whether the health services will remain free or not. The whole point is that Dr Gonzi has not told the truth. I had better faith in the man. I'm afraid he's lost me completely now. What a shame and what a pity!

Ian Bugeja

Feb 27th 2008, 14:45

Four years passed, we have a brand new hospital and no payments were introduced. Only thing to note is that in 1996 government a 50c payment was introduced on "free" medicines.

R Borg

Feb 27th 2008, 14:43

Ops.... This is a big one.
In most democratic countries there is only one way out of this. Hope that gonzipn knows his way out. Resign now and be credible.

Joe Muscat

Feb 27th 2008, 14:34

Sant simply cannot stop clinging to anything he can get his hands and manipulating it to his advantage. I am certain that this is another bending of facts, exactly like he did about the Social Pact overtime issue, where even the organizations involved denied what Sant said.

Byron Camilleri

Feb 27th 2008, 14:27

How can we believe Dr.Gonzi now when he says that public health will remain free? He's not credible! He is even blaiming labour for reducing stipends when he himself reduced them again. How the hell does he wants us to believe him!

Owen Baldacchino

Feb 27th 2008, 14:13

In reference to Mr Anthony Mizzi's comment "the truth coming out at the right time at the wrong moment." this is evident in the recent attacks on students by Dr Alfred Sant & Dr George Vella. In my opinion, this was very wrong political move for the MLP. Moreover, the 'pjan ghal bidu gdid' only has 9 proposals for youths and students, some of which are already in place by the present PN administration.

In stark contrast, the PN has invested heavily in education & encourages students (and the whole society) to freely express themselves. Also, the PN electoral manifesto has 13 direct proposals aimed at youths & students with many more indirect ones.

Do you call a person 'credible' when he has been at helm of MLP for 16 years, lost 2 elections, 1 referendum and was a prime minister for only 22 months?

R. Borg

Feb 27th 2008, 13:52

This shows how GonziPN are just after our votes..."and nothing else matters..."!

Charmaine Calleja

Feb 27th 2008, 13:38

Its a shame that Dr Gonzi is treating the Maltese Citizens in such a manner.
On PBS he denied this. But now its clear that facts show to the contrary.
The following quote also shows that GonziPN is waiting for the election to introduce fees on healthcare. “Should not be introduced for the moment because of political underpinnings.”
After all its the same with the resits.
Im sorry but he cant be trusted.

Victor Laiviera

Feb 27th 2008, 13:32

This is a heavy double-blow for the PN.

On the one hand, it rubbishes the heavy emphasis they have been putting on the health sector.

On the other it destroys Gonzi's credibilty. We cannot rely on any of his assurances after this.

Anthony Mizzi

Feb 27th 2008, 13:14

Dr. Gonzi's denials seem to be getting more feeble with the truth coming out at the right time at the wrong moment.

2004 is the Gonzipn era and to be believed one has to be credible

We have heard enough of visions; we want feasible and realistic results and not broken promises and excuses for non performance.