Don't pass judgement on us

Israel was launching an offensive against Hizbollah in Lebanon as Israeli Ambassador to Malta Ehud Gol was bidding farewell at the end of his five-year term. In his last interview, Mr Gol backs his country's tough line and tells Herman Grech that Israel can defend itself without Europe's help... or sympathy.

Do you blame people for calling Israel's response to the soldiers' kidnappings as disproportionate?
We're facing a grave problem. We are facing an attack on both fronts. Three weeks ago they kidnapped Israeli soldiers (in Gaza) and killed two, and that came after 11 months of constant unprovoked attacks against Israeli towns. We exercised our right for defence to bring the soldiers back. It will be naivety to think this issue is limited to Hamas and Hezbollah. This is organised, sponsored and supported by both Syria and Iran.

But is it justified to respond to kidnaps by launching air strikes against Beirut airport, imposing a naval blockade, and reprisals that have killed over 50 civilians, including 10 children?
Forget the 50 civilians. Who told you 50 civilians have been killed?

The international media is reporting these figures.
So what? You're a journalist. Do you think that everything reported is the truth?

So do you actually think that no civilians have been killed in the Israeli attacks?
We are targeting terrorists who take advantage of our moral values and hide among civilians. Yesterday on TV I heard one report saying a family of 10 was killed, the other saying eight, and another 12. Maybe it was only one person. Maybe it was a family of six Hezbollah people. But ultimately the terrorists will use civilians to their advantage. They will launch rockets from heavy populated areas and we limit ourselves by not reacting immediately. We deal with vicious people that don't act to your codes. You're part of the Western world and you will never understand their codes.

So do you really believe the response has not been disproportionate?
It is less than proportionate. Imagine you're going through the same ordeal in Malta. Imagine you're being attacked and your soldiers are kidnapped and killed and subjected to thousands of missiles for 11 months from Libya or another neighbour. It's very easy for people to pass judgement on us when they don't go through our experience. It's very easy to preach to us. What do you mean it's disproportionate? That not enough Jews were killed? Maybe if six million Jews were killed then our reaction would be justified? The days when Jews were subjected to the mercy of others are gone. We defend ourselves.

Many believe the kidnapping of the soldiers was a convenient excuse to wipe out the enemy at the door?
That's stupid. Did we start this trouble? We've withdrawn from Gaza for good to start off a new era. What did the Palestinians do? They elected a terrorist government to lead them towards disaster. Three weeks ago they carried out the biggest provocation by kidnapping a soldier. Now they want 1,000 prisoners in return for one Israeli soldier. They are setting the proportions.

Hezbollah wants to use the kidnapped Israeli soldiers to negotiate the release of Lebanese nationals still being held in Israeli prisons today, over six years after Israel's 2000 withdrawal from Lebanon. What's taking Israel so long to release these people? Are they all criminals?
Do you think they're angels of peace? Do you think we just abducted them as they walked along the street? They have blood on their hands. Do murderers in Malta walk free on the streets? They're being punished. If we submit ourselves to blackmail what will happen tomorrow?

Israel justifies its attacks by saying Lebanon's ports are used to transfer both terrorists and weapons...
We don't have to justify anything. We are defending ourselves. We don't have to give reports to the international community for all we're doing. We are a peaceful nation. We have been provoked and for once I would like the international community to blame the aggressor not the victim.

Do you think this is the case even now?
Of course. We're being criticised for defending ourselves. For once I want to see the international community saying that the terrorists have to be punished. How come Hezbollah is not on the terrorist list? We've been demanding this for years. Certain Europeans have never been regarded Hezbollah as a terrorist group.

Do you honestly think these reprisals in Lebanon are going to solve anything?
It's not a reprisal. You are wrong.

But isn't it evident it's going to prompt more bloodshed?
What do you want us to do? Are we expected to defend ourselves and be subjected to terrorists? Maybe some people are shocked by the fact that we know how to defend ourselves. I suggest to Malta and to the rest of Europe - put your murderers in Parliament instead of jail and see what happens. Even your question demonstrates something twisted in the European mind. We have to hunt down the terrorists and kill them.

And you believe you can kill them all?
It's tragic that it's just Israel, the US and just a few other countries which have stopped playing a game. If Europe wants to destroy this terrible menace they should at least put Hezbollah on the terrorist list.

Do you think the so-called war on terror has worked?
If I'm not optimistic I will pack my bags and leave. But I was born in Israel, I'm a Jew, I want to stay in my homeland. Nobody will uproot me from my homeland. And if they will try we will destroy them. If it doesn't happen today it will happen tomorrow. We can't afford them the luxury of letting them attack us. They've done it so many times. Europe has demonstrated its weakness in the past - and just look back at history to see the result.

The outbreak of hostilities dramatically raises the stakes in an escalating crisis and threatens a fallout on Lebanon's own fragile government as well as on the Syrian regime.
What fragile government? Lebanon has a government of puppets that is serving Syria and Iran. We pulled out of Lebanon, Gaza and others and every time they see our noble moves as an act of weakness.

Do you think the problem will keep escalating? Many are expecting the worst.
No, I don't think so. Do you think we want to engage in war? The toll is terrible. We want peace. They are provoking us but if we stand against international terrorism it will make life easier for all of us.

Many now believe (former Prime Minister) Ariel Sharon's exit paved the way for violence. With Israeli public opinion largely swinging behind military retaliation, is Ehud Olmert simply jumping on the popularity bandwagon?
That's rubbish. Every time we take a positive step they try to sabotage any chance of a peaceful coexistence. A year ago when we pulled out of Gaza there were a lot of opportunities for investment. Instead of choosing to go into a new era they (the Palestinians) embarked on a trail of destruction. This is the tragedy of the Arab world. Because Arab countries are so undemocratic and because of their totalitarian regimes, they always look for a scapegoat.

Convince me that Israel wants peace when it launches an air strike that destroys the office of Mahmoud al-Zahar, Palestinian foreign minister, in Gaza. What provoked it?
Why do you mention him? He's a joke.

Why?
He's a leader of Hamas. They call themselves ministers and you take them seriously? They are terrorists. They want to kill. Will you bow down to a criminal who decides one day to replace (Foreign Minister) Michael Frendo?

But it's common knowledge that the Hamas government has toned down its tough talk since its election.
Of course - what about those 1,000 missiles they have launched across the border since August? Luckily for us no people were killed but would it be satisfactory for the international community if people were killed? We don't bring the international media to see our tragedy. We don't play these disgusting games.

Coming back home, you're leaving at the end of a five-year term. What exactly have you achieved in Maltese-Israeli relations?
I didn't reach my goals. I wanted Israel and Malta to be much closer, although the relations today are much warmer. We have an ongoing dialogue here. I have always exchanged views with your President and Prime Minister and I think more Maltese now understand Israel and this is my reward. The potential to improve relations exists. I've always hoped that as an EU member, Malta would be subjected to less pressure from the Arab world.

That's what you always claim.
It's the truth, even though they don't like to hear it. I would like to see Malta adhere more to a European line, even though we don't always agree with Europe. The Arab influence was heavy here, especially during the Dom Mintoff era. Now we see a very open government. Though your Opposition is more critical of Israel we still have an open dialogue.

Will you still be monitoring the pattern of Malta's votes in the UN?
I stopped doing it. For years I kept telling Malta to stop being a rapporteur of the Palestinian issue.

Do you really believe Malta is a rapporteur?
You pretended to be. But I came to the conclusion a year and a half ago that I will not raise the issue again with Malta because it's not that important. I even convinced Jerusalem to leave it. I have stopped asking Malta to pull out of the committee on Palestinian affairs.