In Libya power 'really rests with the people'

"Libyans residing in Malta complain they get a bad press. Why is it that the name of a Libyan national is splashed on the front page of your newspapers whenever he or she is involved in some criminal act while people from other countries are placed on the inside pages when they commit a similar crime?"

These were among the first statements to be made by Nasser El Mabrouk, Secretary of the Libyan People's Committee for Public Security - the Jamahiriya's equivalent of our Home Affairs Minister - in an interview with The Times.

As he sat down on a white sofa at the Libyan ambassador's residence in Madliena, Dr El Mabrouk sounded concerned about his country's negative international image, which he blamed on "foreign press propaganda".

"We are against legal violations. The person who does it is only representing himself and is not representative of the Libyan people. The majority of Libyans here are good citizens who have integrated into Maltese life," the former university lecturer in psychology and sociology said.

Three Libyan reporters sitting on a sofa on the other side of the room jotted down notes as an interpreter translated the minister's words from Arabic into English for my sake. I pointed out that an interview with a Libyan minister was rare because Libyan authorities were generally secretive.

"There is nothing secret in Libya. It is the state of the people who practise their authority and exert their power in the 562 congresses all over the country," Dr El Mabrouk answered.

"There is no country in the world where the people have such authority to decide. We do not even need to have a system of democratic representation like you have because people can speak in the congresses. They are already there so why do they need someone to represent them? Nobody can feel the problems of the others; it is the people who express their feelings and decide on policy," he continued.

Yet, daily life accounts of Libya in the foreign press show that political discussion has been close to impossible in the country. People fear incarceration or torture if they express disgruntlement towards the system.

Dr El Mabrouk disagreed: "Not only are people allowed to express their opinion in my country; they make decisions," he said, explaining at great length how a law in Libya cannot be enacted unless decided upon by the people.

He said the 562 congresses, which embraced all Libyans - women and men over 18 years, had the right to discuss laws in detail. The congresses, referred to as shâbija, were set up a few years after the 1969 revolution, when Muammar Gaddafi - then 27 years old - overthrew the monarchy to become the leader of the Revolution in the Great Socialist Peoples' Libyan Arab Jamahiriya.

"We have gone beyond the stage where people need to express themselves. We are in the practical stage - where people are directly involved in the law-making process," Dr El Mabrouk said, adding that even the country's budget would not become law unless it was adopted by the popular congresses.

He said the rest of the world did not understand the practice. "Many people outside Libya think there is the President and a government that rule the country. It is not like that. In my case, for example, they keep calling me a minister. But I am not a minister. I am a secretary of a general people's committee for public security," he insisted.

International human rights' agencies, such as Amnesty International, have called on the Libyan authorities to uphold human rights. They were granted access into Libya and allowed to enter prisons in February 2004. The agency pointed out in a report that laws, policies and practices had to change in order to end the criminalisation of activities merely amounting to the rights of freedom of expression and association. Amnesty said the legal system in place was bound to perpetuate arbitrary political imprisonment and a climate of fear among Libyans, adding it knew of "scores" of individuals who were prisoners of conscience.

"Amnesty came to Libya last year and were allowed to meet everyone, including prisoners. In Libya we don't have any political prisoners. The prisoners there are those who try to use terrorism to achieve their aims. These people are in prison and have been sentenced by the law, because they have no right to impose their views by weapons and bombs. This is against democracy. There are Libyans outside Libya who do not know what is taking place in Libya and are influenced by propaganda. The terrorists don't want the people to rule. They can come to Libya and try to convince the people to rule over them if they like. And they will get the answer," Dr El Mabrouk said.

He said the first years of the revolution had been characterised by some killings and destruction, just like what had happened in the French revolution; it was part of a transition stage. "In the era of confronting terrorism, it took a little longer to take some people to court. There were killings and destruction." That also happened in other countries, he said, reiterating that the world was not fully understanding what is happening in Libya.

"Come to Libya and see with your own eyes. Many were under the influence of mass media propaganda but changed their minds when they came to Libya and saw it for themselves," Dr El Mabrouk said. Emphasising that Libya was a safe country, he added he had no bodyguards back home and it was not the first time he walked home unaccompanied after a day at the office.

"I go to wedding parties and I drive my own car. Why should I be afraid of people?" he asked.

Speaking of the purpose of his visit and the talks held with his Maltese counterpart Tonio Borg, Dr El Mabrouk said his visit to Malta was a "natural thing to happen" because the relationship between the Libyan people and the Maltese people was "rooted in history".

He said Libya was now focusing on the need to combat terrorism, which was one issue discussed with Dr Borg. "Terrorism cannot be connected to a particular people, culture or civilisation. We need to find the exact definition of terrorism because there is great confusion about this term as to who, or what, it refers to. The countries of the world should really unite in a common effort," he said.